857:
this area, so I won't respect you enough to communicate" dynamics, regular reverts/near complete lack of compromise, and an editorial majority profoundly removed from conventional demographics, all of which displayed to me that this page needed help, and debating with those who were unwilling or unable to rationally discuss the pertinant matters was proving ineffective. Request for comment was the clear answer, and when Snow deleted that... it just wasn't a good sign. It told me there was a cover-up, a desire to keep the status quo on this ideosyncratic, unrepresentitive article about a bizarre and offensive topic. In summary, the article needs peer review stat, and I am willing to "mediate" if it is deemed appropriate and necessary by "the powers that be" (yes, I do indeed invoke your name, oh mighty Angela ;).
870:"A bizarre and offensive topic"—with those words, Sam, you tell me you ought to be excusing yourself from any further debate on this issue. Regardless of your thoughts and feelings about gay/lesbian/transgender/gender identity issues, it remains that these things exist. People suffering from Turner's Syndrome or Swyver's Syndrome or even the more common transgendered males and females do not need to hear that they are either "bizarre" or "offensive". I'm ashamed of you, Sam. Please correct me if I have somehow misinterpreted your statement.
998:. Where they sing, "We want no reaction". This group of people now, have made the meaning of a reactionary to be Fascist. Fascists sing "We want no reaction" which now means according to AndyL and others is that Fascists sing "We want no Fascists". This is a sign of totall ludicriousness. This is absolute lunacy. Reactionary is primarily the monarchists. The songs would make sense if Reactionary means monarchism and Christianity and this is in the l930's. The total hypocrisy of what is going on is absolutely funny to behold.
955:
putting "authoritarian" before it. I put in the White
Russians as reactionaries fighting against "Bolsheviks". They reverted this twice. But this is the truth. They don't want "Bolsheviks" on the site contrary to White Russians. There is extreme POV on that site. I found two quotes from sources that call the founding Fathers of America, "reactionary". Because they were reactionary against democracy and Jacobism. They will not allow me to put that in the article.
892:
some point but I think RfC is more appropriate for now. With the number of people involved it seems to me that mediation would be less successful than seeking consensus through discussion and (possibly) polls. It certainly seems that with the number of people involved in this discussion mediation between Sam and
Snowspinner would be inappropriate. --
779:
was quite unfriendly and dismissive, telling me that my lack of expertise invalidated my thoughts and edits on the subject. My guess is that being new to the wiki, he doesn't yet understand some of the processes. I guess we'll have to wait till monday to find out tho, since he was so kind as to place this here just before vacating ;)
1194:
Sams personal issues or faults are beyond my or anyone else's ability to correct from my standpoint. So no, I will not accept mediation because it would give Sam a forum to spew his venom at me. It also should be noted that this case came after I submitted one (which is further evidence of trolling).
1061:
be deleted. The explanation of the article is in it's introduction; the G* word has been used in accord with the Yale
University study integral to the article; the title of the country in question is the common English name (West Papua) as found on the titles and texts of most of the external reports
978:
This goup of people will not allow "OLD" things. I am constantly being told, only modern definitions apply. The Oxford
English Dictionary uses the old meaning comes first. What do we follow here? What is the policy here? I tried once to find out and it got deleted? What is the Laws and rules of
856:
For the record, I do not refuse mediation, rather I find it silly and awkward, and in my eyes what is best for the page is exactly what is happening, critical peer review. There was a goodly amount of "your the enemy so I won't respect you enough to communicate" or "your not an academic specialist in
721:
I am not looking for any apologies. First, there is no guarantee of sincerity in an apology. Second, it often allows the perpetrator of a misdeed the luxury of repeating that same misdeed when well-meaning people assume sincerity. I ask only for Mr. Baas to acknowledge that he carried out the actions
954:
on the original meaning of reactionary which is monarchists. The name of their party was the "Reactionary Party". These people and others will not allow me to put that in the article. No one touched this site Until I did, and all of a sudden they all show up. I put in monarchy. They insist upon
902:
As a note, I was not requesting mediation over box issues, as that was still being worked out productively on talk pages. To my knowledge, no request for mediation on the boxes has been made at this point. The mediation request I made was entirely on POV issues, because apparently the issue was such
832:
I requested comments on the box issue, but felt obliged to mention it here, since everybody looking at the debate now will be a bit confused otherwise. I do not feel that it is possible to come to a consensus about those boxes, but wanted a RfC first. BTW, a general debate about those boxes - all of
701:
Mr. Baas has chosen to extend this confrontation following a comment I made regarding one of his articles. The comment, "delete with prejudice" is a common term on the VfD page, but Mr. Baas immediately accused me of prejudice against himself, and no statement to the contrary seemed to convince him.
986:
Would someone please answer me on the policy of
Knowledge; is it revisionism or the "Law of Strict Continuity"? What laws are followed? Because they have now slanted the meaning of reactionary is now being a Fascist. I want some professionals here. I want an authority of encyclopaedias. I want
778:
The above is accurate, and since I have no serious interpersonal problems w SS, I don't see how mediation is appropriate. Seems silly to me, all I want is for people to go read the page, and get involved on the talk page. He seems to think I should be involved in the talk, which is strange since he
705:
I would also like to express some concern regarding points 2 and 5 of Mr. Bass' goals. He uses the words "other users" and "members", which implies an accusation that I have, as he puts it, "demonstrated uncivility and generally rude behavior" toward other
Wikipedians. Yet the evidence he offers to
915:
OK, understood. I still think RfC is the place for this for now. I'll leave this here for another day or so to allow any mediators with a different opinion to comment, then archive for now. If another request is made in the future we will look again. In either case I will have to recuse myself
816:
I considered there two be two disputes at hand - the project box and the NPOV. Apparently discussions of whether the article are NPOV have broken down beyond the point of communication, whereas the project box is still being discussed on the page, making me not think mediation is required on that
748:
article, Sam Spade felt that the article was POV. I attempted to correct it, and, after making edits, asked on the talk page whether the NPOV tag could now be safely removed. There was no objection, and I removed the tag. However, Sam has listed the page on RfC, saying that it is a mess of POV. In
481:
has taken over here, but it is unclear if he is attempting to be a neutral party, and I suspect not since he has so far ignored the personal attacks against me, even when I brought them up directly. He has also imbedded my postings in the middle of his own, and made his a larger font, posting his
891:
It seems to me that
Requests for Comment is the place for this at the moment. The box issue is one that is wider than this article, and certainly needs discussion, but that is more of a policy issue. I don't think mediation has a part in this. The neutrality issue may benefit from mediation at
966:
Where they say, "The translation of the word
Republic by the Latins caused century of misleading". Someone changes it to "altering its meaning". Are these people who reverted my direct quote from the Oxford book, classicists? are they in greater knowledge than the Classicists of Oxford? This
843:
are having a problem with Sam Spade, but you know, Sam Spade was a problem before you even came into the debate (or the
Knowledge). So why should you be one of the two participants in the debate? You made many dubious changes in the article yourself; even if we managed to resolve most of these
804:
I myself have to admitt that I am not exactly patient about the article any more, either, because the page has been in 3 1/2 edit wars since March 20th, which is why I too would appreciate outside input. However, there are two issued that are being disputed, one is Sam's NPOV claim, the other
793:
This debate is not just between
Snowspinner and Sam Spade. Snowspinner came in rather late, while the edit war with Sam Spade had been going on some time. Also, Snowspinners edits have not exactly been uncontroversial, either. So if there are only two people are supposed to speak out here,
805:
Snowspinners Critical Theory box. Most of these debates have been moved to the archives. I'd therefore appreciate if somebody could make any suggestions on how to proceede, "Request for comments" first, maybe, and/or two mediations or a mediation between three partys? --
970:
Constantly, I am being badgered and reverted constantly by a determined group of people. I want this to stop. Read the talk pages of "reactionary", they won't accept any of my quotes but they use no quotes and no references. I Need Help because things are not working
469:. Since then, he has associated me with Nazism, which offends me deeply. He has not responded to my request to him. These incidents came about because of what I (and others) considered his vandalism on the traditional Chinese medicine page. There is history at the
1191:) makes our differences impossible to reconcile. He knows that his actions have led to the posting (he made) on my talk page to stay until may. He was told it would last longer the more he vandalized my page and did so anyway (causing Danny to protect the page).
794:
Snowspinner is certainly not the one who should do it, since he has been trying to hijack the page for is Critical Theory project, which is only marginally better than Sam Spade's behaviour. Not to mention that the procedure calls for a Request for comments
1203:
Thank you for the response GrazingshipIV. Sam I'm sorry we can't help in this instance. Perhaps I could suggest a period of determined avoidance from both sides? Maybe that will allow things to calm enough for mediation to be useful in the future. --
753:
to be a useful location for discussion of the matter. Since he seems to think the situation has deteriorated to that point, I feel outside mediation would be helpful. For additional places in which discussion with Sam has happened on this matter, check
687:
I seek a clear and stated recognition by Mr. Baas that, with the exception of discussions related directly to editorial issues, and then only on the appropriate article talk page, I have no wish to communicate with him in any way, shape, or
879:
No, don't invoke me. Having somehow gotten myself involved in the argument over one of the boxes, I recuse myself from any mediation processes related to this article, or the series of articles the Critical Theory box might be used in.
1070:
Mediation isn't the place to ask for pages to be reverted. Mediators do not make judgments about content, but try to help the two parties come to an agreement about it. If the page needs to be protected, there is
907:
thing that mediation has been requested over. If someone who has been working on the article longer than I have really wants to represent the viewpoint that the article is NPOV, I'm happy to step aside on that.
694:
I seek confirmation from Mr. Baas that he will avoid the use of direct or implied profanity toward other members of the Knowledge community except where that profanity is clearly not intended to offend.
1050:
482:
comments before and after my own. Seems like an odd practice to me, but perhaps I am still new here. I ceased editing on this page when things got personal. I have posted this problem to
702:
While he continually espoused values such as "communication" and "civillity", he failed to demonstrate them, and to make matters worse, failed to show that he even understood the terms.
1180:
I will not enter into mediation with Sam because my issues with him are deeper than his trollish (and now vandalistic) behavior, which could possiby be resolved through mediation.
1062:
listed. The two name changes were done without prior discussion and with dis-reguard to the continuing work on the article resulting in the current multiple versions of content.
697:
I seek acknowledgement by Mr. Baas that his harrassment resulted in a loss of opportunity for me to work on contributions to Knowledge as a consequence of his filibustering.
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His general acknowledgement, given the above, of his violation of the principle of the wikipedian community in regards to treating members of the community with
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the authority of the Oxford English Dictionary. I want an authority of the Encyclopaedia Britannica. I want some authority to go to. What is going on here?
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that those who believe that the article is POV feel the talk pages for the article are too hostile or poisonous a place to carry on the debate. That is the
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I seek confirmation from Mr. Baas that articles he publishes will be properly credentialed, and that he will refrain from publishing original research.
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Respecting this, a formal apology for burying my comments in the upper section of the talk page, which is historically misleading and contradicts:
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issue. Certainly, though, if you feel the project box is beyond the point of possible discussion, we can attempt to bring that to mediation too.
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Guarantee that he will use the talk pages appropriately, and respect other people's freedom of speech and right to equal representation.
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I would like mediation w GrazingshipIV myself, due to repeated slander, harassment and abuse, most clearly evident on his talk page.
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who has been helping with the article much earlier than Snowspinner, and has, unlike Snowspinner, not started an edit war himself.
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I am requesting mediation due to RK's unprovoked personal attacks against me. I responded by asking him to stop, on his
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I officially recuse myself from this request in light of the concerns Sam Spade had with my becoming a mediator (now at
770:. (Please note that I'm out all weekend, so I'm not going to be able to comment further on this until Monday the 26th).
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issues, I do not think you should be the one speaking for the article as it stands now. (Nor me, for that matter.) --
527:. Ended August 2004 with Kevin's statement "I am happy with the results of the mediation, and consider it completed."
490:. Assistance please. I am no longer interested in communicating directly with RK without some resolution. Thanks.
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mediation, which Snowspinner simply tried to delete. So if somebody is supposed to be "the other" speaker, I suggest
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stage. If you do think mediation is needed now, can you say who it is that you want to enter mediation with please.
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points and inviting other users to vote in a poll. This might help in showing the consensus view. Please see
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simple changing of "misleading" to "altering meaning" is not right and it is propaganda, and it is wrong.
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I seek confirmation that Mr. Baas has clear understanding of the degree of sanctity of a user's talk page.
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the general guidleine of talk pages proceeding vertically, as stated by the guidelines and policies.
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should also be an indicator of Mr. Baas' ability to talk the talk, but inability to walk the walk.
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moved into a separate section from the request for mediation between GrazingshipIV and Hcheney by
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Guarantee that he will refrain from this in the future, with other users as well as me.
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support such a linguistic construction is the same as that which he used to support
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conversation with him, he has indicated that he does not believe the talk page of
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This is the total lunacy of what is going on at Knowledge. I have posted
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1029:, it's not the mediation committee's role to make rulings on policy. --
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for more advice. You questions on policy are better asked at the
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A guarantee that he will refrain from such behavior in the future.
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Thank you, I will instead enter this as a request for protection.
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re. the behavior of Kevin Baas, submitted 2004 April 18, 0340 UTC
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I am concerned with Dwindrim's behavior in violoation of
604:, as well as his uncivility and generally rude behavior.
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Knowledge:Votes for deletion/Fractional electrodynamics
714:; that is to say, nothing but bluster. A quick read of
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20:49, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC) (mediation committee member)
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22:51, 25 Apr 2004 (UTC) (mediation committee member)
839:The issue about mediation is also that you claim
979:defining here? Will someone PLEASE answer me.
946:. I am trying to put the correct defintion of
523:Mediation requested by Kevin Baas. Mediated by
1059:Human rights violations in western New Guinea
31:Click 'show' to view an index of all archives
916:from this one because of personal bias. --
553:as starting point for the mediation process.
39:Closed mediation cases (accepted requests)
1144:Knowledge:Requests_to_be_mediator/archive
1017:yet? You also might consider outlining
964:Oxford Companion to Classical Literature
588:A formal apology from Dwindrim, for his
14:
1051:West_Papuan_Genocide&oldid=3368272
760:Talk:Heteronormativity/Archive 2004 4
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486:without response so far, as well as
837:- seems to be desperately needed.
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545:23:41, 17 Apr 2004 (UTC).
1195:Thanks anyway Sannse. :)
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1005:This place is a joke.
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735:Snowspinner
722:as stated.
1041:West Papua
543:Kevin Baas
958:Next, On
739:Sam Spade
737:and User
475:talk page
467:talk page
1019:specific
492:heidimo
1007:WHEELER
1000:WHEELER
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981:WHEELER
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932:Wheeler
744:In the
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1206:sannse
1189:racism
1169:(talk)
1166:sannse
1154:Брайен
1120:Брайен
1091:Daeron
1081:Angela
1064:Daeron
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918:sannse
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894:sannse
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525:Angela
1148:BCorr
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934:with
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