1411:"Blown away" are words used in the article. It may not be encyclopedic, but a quote is a quote and must be maintained. Ms. Ogryzlo also mentioned in the source that she felt the reputation of the fries as "the best" had merit. So, there is a source already there about the quality of the fries. Also, if I remove the Chadwick quote, you don't then get to say in the future "what is the relevance of chip trucks? Why is this included? They're not notable."
1329:
performance of their equipment in a municipal park setting. There is no cost for the City for this equipment and the City has been indemnified for insurance purposes by the installer of the equipment. Because "Active
Equipment" is a company name, I did not include it in the article because it could have been seen as advertising. Also, because the fitness equipment is in a park, it is self-evident that it's "outdoor equipment."
724:
Port Huron, Michigan." This sentence needs rewording to make it more clear. As it stands, it doesn't follow logically, but I know what you are trying to say. Maybe something like "Sarnia is located on the eastern bank of the junction between the Upper and Lower Great Lakes where Lake Huron flows into the St. Clair River, which forms the Canada-United States border, directly across from Port Huron, Michigan". Is that more clear?
1607:: A lot of work was done on this article at the peer review stage, and there has been some further improvement since. However, the judgement that the prose needs further work before the article can pass FAC is a fair one. I will do what I can over the next week or so to help knock the prose into shape, and request that the delegates allow this time before considering closure.
1104:
were relocated, mostly to the North End, to make way for expansion of the chemical industry. The village was demolished, and all that remains now is an historical marker at the corner of Vidal Street and Huron Avenue. This neighbourhood was largely forgotten until historian
Lorraine Williams penned two books about it and was instrumental in the dedication of the plaque. "
1408:
waterfront). Are there more sources on the fries actually being notable? For example I could find a food blogger that likes fries anywhere. Some reference that states the Sarnia fries are special in some way would be perfect. Then there is a long quotation which does not have to do with Sarnia, just chip trucks in general, which I believe is rather out of place.
184:, who has successfully contributed to more than 70 featured articles. I have implemented 99% of his recommendations in revamping the article so that it is leaner and meaner. I've put in more hours that I can remember on the article and am making my second try at FA status. Thank you for any and all constructive and polite help! I sincerely appreciate it.
1371:"Fries Under the Bridge" is not a specific store. There are generally five fry establishments under the Bridge at any one time. One of them is a brick-and-mortar location, and the other four are chip trucks. The trucks and the regular location have been part of Sarnia's cultural identity for 57 years.
1194:"Otherwise, as also shown by the National Climate Data and Information Archive, Sarnia has very little regular snowfall;" This needs reworking. Possibly include the national climate data as a citation for the statement "Sarnia has very little regular snowfall"? No need to include it in the text itself.
1834:
Most of the first paragraph is out of scope for Sarnia, the city (and would better fit into the
Guernsey-article). The relevant etymology for the city name is only: "It was derived from an island with the same name". Guernsey is linked, all additional info about Guernsey and the island's etymology is
1344:
This is a very long quotation that has nothing to do with Sarnia, and I do not know why it is there: "There is one single, unifying element that defines our
Canadian culture in absolute terms, a skein that runs through the warp and weft of the Canadian psyche. It's not our language, not our universal
723:
Going through the lead again, it looks much better now, but still the prose is far from polished. For example "Sarnia rests on the eastern bank of the junction between the Upper and Lower Great Lakes where Lake Huron flows into the St. Clair River and is across the Canada-United States border east of
473:
But Sarnia was simply the venue of these bands, it did not generate an "artistic presence". For example, you wrote (in the lead mind you) that a country band called Rascal Flats, from Ohio, once went to Sarnia to play an hour long concert. How does this make Sarnia an artistic presence? Did this band
1552:
I'm sorry, there are simply too many prose issues in this article at the moment. I've been trying to catch them but I'm maybe 10% through the article, and even then it could use more than a cursory glance. Also I've not had a chance to review the "bigger picture". I don't think this will pass in the
1103:
This sentence seems out of place for the geography section: "The village of Blue Water was built to house workers and their families in
Chemical Valley during the construction of Polymer Corporation and at one point had nearly 3,000 residents, many of them French-Canadian. In 1961, all the residents
1576:
I do think the article is looking better, and thanks for considering my changes, but as you can see there were a lot, and that was only a section or two. I alone cannot go over the whole article in two weeks. It really needs other eyes. I'll keep trying to improve prose as much as I can in the mean
384:
You are fixing a specific criticism without looking at the bigger picture. The writing needs work and unfortunately I do not have time to go over every sentence (although I do want to see this article at FA level!). For example "Because of the petrochemical industry, and Sarnia's resulting economic
1835:
available there - it's not necessary (and confusing for the average reader) to duplicate that info here and follow an inherited name completely back to its original roots (especially when that info is apparently disputed among different sources). The entire first paragraph should be replaced with "
1622:
Later: I have copyedited the sections following "Demographics", the best I can do. I have not tried to rewrite the article, though I have made a few rearrangements of the content that seemed necessary, and I have "lost" the bus picture, which wasn't particularly interesting and tended to overcrowd
1072:
This sentence needs rewording: "Despite this high percentage of clay, the soil is remarkably rich for growing and planting because prior to the Ice Age, when glaciers covered most of the area as can be seen not only by the existence of the Great Lakes themselves but also of alluvial sand deposits,
1279:
I consider the readers of this page when gauging notability. What is more likely: 1. A user wondering during an election time, if Sarnia is a traditional Tory stronghold or 2. A user wondering the name of the lady that sold the land to the city in 1933 creating one of the 100 parks. I think most
1256:
There is quite a bit of trivia that is not really appropriate for a city page IMO. For example, it's not notable that the name of one of the 100 parks "was chosen by Mrs. W. J. Hanna, who in 1932 helped to purchase the land." All three paragraphs on parks could probably be neatly summarized in 1
1744:
File:Sarnia_From_Space.jpg: there is no way this meets the "unique historic image" rationale. You might consider contacting
Hadfield about releasing his photos for use, or check to see whether any of the NASA-published photos feature Sarnia. Similarly, File:Sarnia_at_Night_from_Space.jpg - try
1387:
Again, that quotation is not about the five fry establishments under the Bridge. It's about how French Fries and chip stands form part of the
Canadian identity. I'm not sure why this specific (random?) quotation was chosen. Is there no references to the importance to the chip trucks in Sarnia
522:
I've read the sources, and they the cancellation is due to years of low attendance and that the festival in its current form is essentially done. Could not find any firm plans for return in 2014 as stated in the text. In light of the cancellation I'm sticking with my recommendation to remove,
1407:
This chip section is really strange. You mention how a food writer was "blown away" by the Sarnia waterfront. "Blown away" is not encyclopaedic, and I'm not sure why the waterfront is mentioned in a paragraph on chip trucks (or the importance of a food blogger in determining the quality of a
1328:
As a result of this recommendation, staff worked with a local company Active
Playground Equipment (APE) to utilize City parks with installations of active play equipment. APE has agreed to test prototypes of their active equipment in Canatara Park for two years to gather feedback and measure
1116:
Absolutely. It is an integral part of the development of both Sarnia and
Chemical Valley. I removed the part about French-Canadian because it's not in the source. The Mayor's Honor List Source has all the information about Blue Water, so there is no need to list the same source twice.
1225:
Is it possible to include a little on the history of the elected political parties. Is it a traditionally held Tory riding? Or has it wavered in the recent past? Maybe just a sentence or two on this I think would add a bit of encyclopaedic balance instead of just the current mp and
1041:" In 2011, 89.31% of Sarnians counted English as their mother tongue, 2.46% listed French, 0.87% counted both of those languages, and 7.37% counted another language as their mother tongue" I count "counted" 3 times in that one sentence. Maybe synonyms would make it less jarring?
638:"The Channel Islands lie between Southern England and Northern France, as indicated by Selden.". You've already mentioned the Channel Islands, what purpose does this sentence serve? Why is it important that Selden knows where the Chanel Islands are, isn't it assumed?
1475:"all classes are conducted in French". This can't be true. French immersion means that there are some classes in French and some in English (I've attended one). At the very least, english classes won't be taught in French. Suggest cutting this part of the sentence.
1262:
Frankly, I don't know why details of history of the parks is considered "trivia," yet a history of which political party was in power over the years is considered necessary. In any event, I removed the sentence, even though it's directly stated in the reference.
385:
dependence on it, the city has the highest level of particulates air pollution of any
Canadian city." This is a passive sentence, consider starting with "The city has the highest level of particulates... because...". I'll see if I have time to catch more later.
1345:
social programs. ... It's not even the animosity we hold each other in — the bipolarization of English versus French, east versus west, everyone versus Ontario. No, — it's the chip wagon. Yes, the glue of our national identity is the grease of the french fry."
477:
I have moved the list of performers out of the lead and put it into the Culture section. One question, however ... if the bands had played at the Hollywood Bowl instead of Sarnia Bayfest, would that not have been significant in the history of that venue?
1778:"unique historic image" requires a stronger rationale than other fair-use tags, and this particular image was first published by the press (according to the image description). I suggest that a broader discussion about the image's inclusion is needed.
300:
I'm not sure if you need "when he had horses and men pull his 45-tonne barque "Le Griffon" up the almost four-knot current" in the lead. Lead is a summary of the text. It's not really about Sarnia itself, but I suppose fits as trivia in the history
1763:
Nikkimaria, when I posted the first photo by Chris Hadfield (the daylight shot), there was a big discussion about it. The caption that I put on the photo was the result of that discussion. Check the talk page of the photo, and you'll see.
910:
OK, so the demographics section is out of date and needs to be updated. Stats Can released the national household survey which should update much of the statistics relating to language, religion, etc. for Sarnia. It can be found here:
1680:
You mean besides Roman Catholicism? Still very strange to combine two arbitrarily like that, would suggest giving each their individual percentage. That shouldn't clutter the sentence up too much and be much more informative.
458:
Sorry, I have to stand firm on this one. Sarnia Bayfest is the one of the biggest music festivals in Southern Ontario, and the fact that such big names have played here is important to the artistic presence mentioned above.
1651:
The prose in the demographics section is now much better, and up to date. I only have one last comment for this section: why are United Church and Anglican combined in the statistics? Aren't they fairly distinct religions?
1173:"A 2010 Windsor Star article" (actually I'm not sure about the relevance of this source to a geographic phenomenon) is this even needed? Could you just cite this article as justification for Sarnia being in the snow-belt?
1451:
The one sentence paragraphs were constructed that way by other reviewers during the peer review process. I am loath to change them because the reviewers have successfully contributed to more than 708 featured articles.
363:
Grammar: "Because of this economic dependence on the petrochemical industry, Sarnia has the highest level of particulates air pollution". No, it's not the dependence that causes pollution, it's the industry.
1517:
Was suggesting that the last sentence of the last paragraph be merged with the first sentence of the last paragraph, as it feels like an add-on where it is now. But this is not a critical suggestion anyway.
621:"The largest event that happens in Sarnia is Sarnia Bayfest, which is a popular music festival that takes place during the summer." tense issue, should be past tense (happened, took place).
1080:
Suggest breaking it up into smaller sentences, or remove the passive nature. Also: what is the distinction between growing and planting? Don't you mean the soil is "good for cultivation"?
657:"Berry elucidated the difference by stating "... and thus applying Sarnia to Guernsey ..."" Elucidate means to make clear, how is that short quotation making the difference clear?
676:
Prose definitely needs a good copyedit. For example, first sentence: "The name "Sarnia" is Latin for Guernsey, which is Channel Island", do you mean "which is a Channel Island?".
1350:"Fries Under the Bridge" are part of Sarnia's city identity. The quote is there to support that association. Between 50 and 100 thousand people visit the fry trucks every year.
597:
General impressions: The lead seems imbalanced comapred to the focus of the rest of the article, with perhaps too much history and not enough summary of the rest of the article.
1393:
Added back two other citations that another reviewer suggested I remove during the peer review stage. On reflection, they are important, so I added them back to the article.
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terminal moraines, and rich oil reserves, the entire area was submerged and plant and animal matter formed many layers of sediment as they settled after the waters receded."
292:
45-tonne barque "Le Griffon" is mentioned in the lead but not in the history section. Lead should summarize history, maybe this part is needed *only* in the history section?
1366:
But that article is not about that particular store. It's about how French Fries and chip stands form part of the Canadian identity. Nothing to do with Sarnia specifically.
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It's clear because he also states that Guernsey is Sarnia, spelled with an "n" instead of Sarmia, "spelled with an "m," which is an older name of the nearby island Sark.
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I'm not sure if the two-week limit for FAC is enough to fix the writing. I've only scratched the surface of this article so far and found many issues. What do you think?
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819:"adopted the title "The Imperial City" on 7 May 1914". This needs clarification. What is meant by title? Did they rename the town? If so when was it renamed Sarnia?
798:
You state there was a vote to rename the village, but who voted? Does this number matter? Does it even matter what a few settlers wanted the village to be called?
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The very last sentence of this section seems like an add-on. I wonder if it can be incorporated into the first sentence of that paragraph? (This is not critical)
526:
There are no firm plans for permanent cancellation either. If and when such plans surface, or plans to continue, then I'll modify the article appropriately.
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Is it notable to list the number of log houses, brick houses, frame houses in the section on the name of the city? Population would suffice I would think.
250:"Sarnia is a city in Southern (Southwestern) Ontario, Canada" - I would say choose either southern, or southwestern. Having both is a little redundant.
1792:
Fair enough, Nikkimaria. Is there a way to change the tag to something else? Or, should I delete the photo and upload it again under a different tag?
882:
What does this mean? "Colborne also named "Moore" " Is Moore another village nearby? There is no link, or any mention of this before. Very confusing.
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It's "or" because atheists don't believe in any religion. "No religious preference" means they're religious, but don't really care which religion.
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That would mean a double citation, one for where those things are mentioned in the text, and one for the infobox. Is that not over-citing?
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Shouldn't matter since the sentence should be deleted, but in Canadian English is it not preferred to write cancelled instead of canceled?
1562:
Mattximus, after implementing all your suggested changes, I've run the whole article through readability.com. It's at grade level 11-12.
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In the source, they were the two largest groups, so it made sense to combine them. The other groups were too small to list separately.
1806:
OK, I figured out how to do it and changed the type from historic image to newspaper image. The fair-use rationale remains the same.
1623:
that part. It's now up to other editors to decide if the prose has been polished up to FAC standards. I don't believe I can do more.
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References: Culturally, Sarnia is a large part of the artistic presence in Southern Ontario. Where in the reference is this stated?
337:"The Ontario Heritage Trust considers the voyage worthy of note, as shown by the photo of the sign." Not an encyclopedic sentence.
271:
There must be a better way of saying " It is located where the...", perhaps a more technical geographic term (at the junction?)
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The sentence regards college education and would be out of place in a paragraph about elementary and high school education.
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I'm not sure how important it is to say that in 2013 the music festival was cancelled due to lack of funds in the lead.
1881:
Commenting here because there has been no traffic for almost a week and I don't want this archived with no decision.
643:
Fixed this by combining the two sentences. Also, the name section is not too long. I've already shortened it by 40%.
1319:
Why does "Outdoor Fitness Equipment" have capitals? Also I checked the ref, and those three words are not mentioned.
1285:
No, I don't agree. But in the interests of compromise, as stated, I removed the extra sentence about Canatara Park.
453:
I really don't think a list of bands that once played in the city has any place in the article, let alone the lead.
1046:
I quoted the text used on the original 2006 Census, which used all the "counteds." Changed them this time around.
1637:
Thanks for the extra help, Brianboulton! I think we've done everything we can do. Let's just see what happens!
602:
I included history, arts, weather, Chemical Valley, and the discovery of oil. To me, that seems well-balanced.
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It's very important because Sarnia Bayfest did not happen this year, thus affecting the economy of the area.
971:
Oh, then the "or" makes sense. Are you sure "no religious preference" means religious but don't care which?
1215:
Section is pretty good, please consider my changes above. I'm not yet done with the last paragraph though!
1847:." and merged with the second paragraph, continuing with the governor and details about his name choice.
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First sentence -- we have "...Ontario, Canada (2011 population...", but there is no closing parenthesis.
551:
I put all the references regarding Bayfest at the end of the paragraph. It's not just the cancellation.
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It is notable because it is part of the quote; therefore, I am, as stated before, loath to change it.
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There is a lack of Canadian cities at FA status, but I believe there is quite a bit of work needed:
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Added the reference and corrected the date to 23 August 1679. Hey, that's 334 years ago today!
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Not sure if this is fixed. "As shown by the photo of the sign" is not convention in wikipedia.
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The citizens voted. The material comes from the quote itself, which I am loath to change.
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Why does the "organizers canceled the event because of money troubles" have 5 references?
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has been archived, but there may be a delay in bot processing of the close. Please see
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I'm not sure what "median cost of a home in Sarnia" is doing in the demographics section
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not play 100 other cities that year? This may sound sarcastic, but I mean it sincerely.
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I am nominating this for featured article because I have had a thorough peer review by
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would say the first is important, and the second is on the trivial side. Do you agree?
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Same for "of the St. Clair River on 24 August 1679." But this statment needs a source
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913:]. Just text is fine but maybe consider a demographics table like the one found in
1721:: I am going to be translating this article into German for wikipedia.de shortly.
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Fair enough this is fine, I had to go searching a bit but I found the reference.
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It's not passive, but I changed the structure to remove the dependent clause.
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The name section is not a very clear read and probably too long. For example:
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Citation needed in infobox for settlement date, incorporation date, etc...
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Removed the capitals. In the reference, the following paragraph appears:
824:
The clarification is there in the sentence. Connaught visited the city.
1020:
A median income that differs by 20% is considered "roughly the same"?
924:
Redid the demographics section with the most recent available data.
887:
Yes, Moore is a nearby village, and it is sourced in the reference.
297:
Added a mention of La Salle and the Griffon to the history section.
39:
Subsequent comments should be made on the article's talk page or in
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1111:
Since it no longer exists, should it belong in the history section?
1388:
specifically? If not, I would venture to say they are not notable.
1526:
I believe it is written "enrolment" in Canada, not "enrollment".
1156:
No, the participial version is weaker than the direct version.
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1446:
Paragraphs shouldn't have just one sentence. Suggest merging?
1004:
Actually, it was "or" and "Jewish," and I added the space.
492:
Hollywood Bowl perhaps, but not in the Los Angeles article.
150:
1172:"A Windsor Star article printed 15 December 2010" -: -->
1741:
Captions need some editing for clarity, tone, and style
770:
Sounds good, will continue to review when time permits!
410:
Prose: "In the winter, Sarnia does experience" - : -->
1927:The above discussion is preserved as an archive.
945:Prose issues in the demographics section include:
999:(nitpicking) need a space between of and Jewish
43:. No further edits should be made to this page.
1590:as is (unless prose is considerably improved)
1933:No further edits should be made to this page.
1917:template in place on the talk page until the
29:The following is an archived discussion of a
1553:2 week limit. Suggest a thorough copy-edit.
845:1857, which is also stated in the article.
840:When did it go from Port Sarnia, to Sarnia?
125:Featured article candidates/Sarnia/archive2
120:Featured article candidates/Sarnia/archive1
41:Knowledge talk:Featured article candidates
756:Well, I'm going to give it my best shot!
618:"graced the stage" is not encyclopedic.
14:
681:Yes, that is what I mean. Fixed this.
18:Knowledge:Featured article candidates
1233:Added historical election results.
23:
1547:Conclusion (thus far into the FAC)
24:
1945:
1883:There can be only one...TheKurgan
1865:There can be only one...TheKurgan
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418:There can be only one...TheKurgan
392:There can be only one...TheKurgan
370:There can be only one...TheKurgan
344:There can be only one...TheKurgan
323:There can be only one...TheKurgan
315:There can be only one...TheKurgan
278:There can be only one...TheKurgan
257:There can be only one...TheKurgan
221:There can be only one...TheKurgan
186:There can be only one...TheKurgan
165:There can be only one...TheKurgan
567:This should be made more clear.
1891:05:45, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
1873:15:43, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
1857:14:49, 18 September 2013 (UTC)
1541:18:01, 12 September 2013 (UTC)
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1209:21:13, 10 September 2013 (UTC)
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897:22:03, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
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855:22:03, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
834:22:03, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
813:22:03, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
792:22:03, 25 September 2013 (UTC)
777:Why is Port Sarnia italicised?
57:10:02, 30 September 2013 (UTC)
13:
1:
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1802:16:28, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
1788:14:35, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
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1647:22:11, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
1633:21:17, 5 September 2013 (UTC)
1617:13:47, 2 September 2013 (UTC)
321:) 22:21, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
1150:"and bring with them" -: -->
1135:"means it is mild by" -: -->
782:Dunno. Removed the italics.
7:
1912:featured article candidates
1839:is the traditional name of
1600:19:30, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
1572:16:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
1480:Cut the sentence entirely.
1056:16:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
1035:16:35, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
1014:16:37, 31 August 2013 (UTC)
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766:21:15, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
741:21:15, 28 August 2013 (UTC)
712:19:18, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
691:19:18, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
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612:22:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
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536:19:45, 25 August 2013 (UTC)
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229:17:15, 22 August 2013 (UTC)
215:03:32, 21 August 2013 (UTC)
194:02:49, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
173:02:49, 12 August 2013 (UTC)
31:featured article nomination
10:
1950:
523:especially from the lead.
1299:Added electoral history.
342:Fixed this by rewording.
1930:Please do not modify it.
437:Pages 7-12. Fixed this.
36:Please do not modify it.
938:Looks much better now!
239:Comments by Mattximus
1178:Added as reference.
1151:"bringing with them"
581:Fixed the spelling.
411:Sarnia experiences
1830:("name" section)
915:Hamilton, Ontario
731:Made the change.
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1897:Closing note
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1843:, a British
1836:
1827:
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1736:Image review
1735:
1734:
1718:
1717:
1625:Brianboulton
1609:Brianboulton
1604:
1603:
1587:
1586:
1546:
1545:
1531:Fixed this.
1469:
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1438:
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1085:Fixed this.
1065:
1064:
1025:Fixed this.
905:Demographics
904:
903:
625:
624:
416:Fixed this.
368:Fixed this.
276:Fixed this.
255:Fixed this.
244:
243:
238:
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219:Fixed this.
202:by Chris857
199:
182:Brianboulton
179:
162:
146:Citation bot
71:
50:not promoted
49:
47:
35:
28:
1251:Attractions
1780:Nikkimaria
1747:Nikkimaria
1695:Fixed it.
1220:Government
54:GrahamColm
1905:WP:FAC/ar
1901:candidate
1849:GermanJoe
1683:Mattximus
1654:Mattximus
1592:Mattximus
1470:Education
1257:paragraph
1199:Removed.
1066:Geography
983:Removed.
1899:: This
1841:Guernsey
301:section.
207:Chris857
141:Analysis
1828:Comment
1605:Comment
133:Toolbox
91:protect
86:history
1837:Sarnia
1588:Oppose
1439:Sports
95:delete
74:Sarnia
67:Sarnia
1577:time.
112:views
104:watch
100:links
16:<
1887:talk
1879:Bump
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78:edit
1919:bot
52:by
1915:}}
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