Knowledge talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive 7

3285:) Since the images are offered with a special permission to use them, the fair use rationale is solidified over the somewhat clumsier method of stealing pics from places like Amazon.com or Ebay. The images, however, often do not include the console-specific formatting (the bars above and below the coverart, basically formalities that must be included if a publisher wishes to release their game on a particular platform). Since the Infobox covers all of the pertinent info contained in these layouts (Release platform, ESRB rating, etc.), and since many games are multi-platform releases (yet include in the infobox the packaging image for only one particular platform), I think that these are both aesthetically and practically preferable to the aforementioned packaging pics. 3050:

which you use it (Revolution). It's just too much. If we need controller information in the infobox leave it to just the amount of controllers it can support. That's really all that is necessary. I don't agree with leaving Killer Apps since that is subjective and once again possibly too much information. PlayStation from a certain point of view had tons of killer apps. Theres no way we can list them all. If the information is available, I'd rather have "Top selling game" for the system. That may be an optional. Summary of what to drop (IMHO): Killer app, accessories (too many to list - redundant with

3244:, for example, is not related to any anime, yet was moved into the anime games category. I don't see how it is relevant, and could easily mislead people. Maybe we could have a new category for ren'ai games, since those are getting hit the hardest with this issue? As far as the games that actually are anime games, while their current location is okay, I think they should be put in multiple categories instead of just anime games (where many are), as it doesn't say much about the content of the game. Dual categorization would be ideal-Anime/Role-playing, Anime/Fighting, Anime/Simulation, and so forth. 3484:". Well, I never saw boxshots without source to be quarrel or problems in the Knowledge. Until a few days ago this never was problem and the members always uploaded unsourced boxshots as they appear in the stores. I can't understand why this need to changed into a rule now, because WPCVG members ever upload the unsourced boxshots in last monsths/years. I imagine how much of controversy this can generate in other projects, as to substitute unsourced covers of music CDs or movie posters for simply existing a photo sourced. -- 31: 2973:. Listing games and "market status" is bad, although it might be ok to have a link at the bottom of the infobox that points to "List of ___ games". I'm also not crazy about adding expansion and controller port numbers. Controller ports seem almost a thing of the past now considering their all wireless and then for handhelds it may be hard to define what a controller is (ex. DS's stylus and touch screen). I'm unsure of how to attack that so I just did away with the entire field. 3780: 1720:. The make up of the article you're trying to add to "video game" largely comes from "computer and video games". This needs to be sorted out for Knowledge's own sake as we do not need duplicate articles and useless page histories. An admin (specifically one that understands how to correct complex copy and paste problems) needs to give this some attention to correct this issue before even proceeding with the new version in which you're proposing. 2070: 1344:. Sometimes, it is appropriate to separate the topics and where there is significant overlap describe common points in shared "sub" articles. The fact that computer games aren't a strict subset of video games (1% or so of computer games being non-video games), doesn't mean that video games can't be considered the "main" class of electronic games. The world isn't strictly hierarchial, and doesn't need to be described as such. 3446:

always ask the uploader. IMHO, box covers are inherently promotional material and therefore are good to use under fair use. The "poster" used on PDZ or the released box cover with all the logos etc is okay with me. I don't care. The poster is just as good a representation for what the WPCVG guideline is looking for as the "box cover" — they're both virtually identical. I don't see the big deal here.

1826:- this is a very complex issue - which I'm not sure is solvable in this case. It may be better to just move the old page(s) to a subpage like "/Old" or something and refer to this in the edit summary and talk page). I'm not opposed to this reorganization, I just feel more thought needs to be put into it before it gets pushed forward — and a vote (if possible) considering this is a major change. 243:-Console games Again, no game should be categoried as just being a console game. --NES games I hope you realize the pattern! --etc Really, I do! -Handheld games - --PSP games - -Arcade games An exception because I can't think of a non-redundant sub-name for non-pinball arcade games. --Pinball games Pinball! Ding ding ding. 3531:

basis behind them. You've made me justify these contributions again and again, but no matter what I or anyone else says you will simply disregard the explanations, and stick to your stubborn authoritarian stance. Your actions and constant reversions are disruptive and rude; cut other people some slack, we're all trying to work toward a common goal here. --

1811:

want to do. I don't even know if admins can move histories like that. I was excited about this re-organization, but it looks like most people have lost interest. Personally, I don't have the time any longer to help move this forward. Any help would be appreciated, but I don't really feel optimistic about this anymore...

3262:

various online outlets. I think that although these fall well under fair use rationale, that high quality hi-rez box images supplied by the game makers (who, after all, own the copyright to any box image of their game) is preferable to other sources. Check out, for instance, the large clear image used for

3369:

Then the problem is, which particular box art do you include in the game page? The infobox currently has room for only one image. I agree with you that the multiple versions of the boxart should be included in the article, perhaps in the gallery or next to a relevant section. The question is, what is

1287:

Um, I know we discourage original research here. I wasn't planning to use the chart in the article, I just used it here for illustrative purposes. But I don't think categorizing the different types of video games is original research, they are inherently categorized by what platform(s) they run on.

216:

Well, Microsoft are pusing Windows forward as a games platform with Vista, with the same vigour as Xbox. The main difference gamers are going to experience is that the packaging is going to read "Windows CD/DVD-ROM" and have the Windows logo, but I think this is the call to recategorize Windows games

183:

I'm generally opposed to specifying "PC" as a platform. What does that mean? DOS? Windows? Linux? BeOS? Platforms should be more specific. This has been irking me for some time, but the amount of work involved of fixing it has scared me. But if someone wants to do it, I'm all for it. I'll help

3493:

Having a source for any image (along with a proper license) has always been a requirement at Knowledge so that other editors can verifty the copyright status of the image. It's only been more recent that Knowledge has actually begun to crackdown on the problem. Any image that has been uploaded for 7

3370:

the most efficient way to represent a game title for identification purposes? If there are multiple versions of the game (such as all those "premium" packages that are coming out now), and multiple release platforms, then sticking to a specific pic of the packaging might sometimes prove confusing. --

3288:

This is a proposal for the clarification of Infobox image use policy, based on the arguments stated above. Please note that I am not arguing against using box art, I agree that the infobox image should reflect what the customer sees in stores. Often times the best available image is indeed a picture

3239:

I don't see any problem with putting Dragon Ball Z games in the anime games category because those are actually based on an anime title. Ren'ai games, for all practical purposes, are dating sims, a fairly wide genre. Most are not tied with anime titles, yet because many use art styles stereotyped as

3208:

Seems way too open to interpretations. Anime can have any art style, not just those influenced by Walt Disney's large-eyed characters, even if they are common. Maybe we should have a category for games licensed as merchandise from other series/things and put the games currently in the anime category

2330:

beneath "designer(s)" in the box. I know most people really don't think much of videogame music (and the genre is often a bit neglected), but there has been an increase in appreciation over the years. At least in Japan the phenonemon is a lot bigger, and there are already quite a few "big names" out

1738:

I think its a good idea to do reorganization but we really should get some bots in for this to do all the category renaming and all that good stuff. Personally, I dont think its much a priority (I think bringing the history of video gaming articles to FA status would be better) but It has to be done

3504:

for those 7 days for notification to editors. I simply don't understand the problem you have here. The poster and the box cover are virtually identical with the exception of the logo for platform, the ESRB, and perhaps a publisher's logo — all of which can be found immediately in the infobox. Use a

2469:

I think the infobox is best used for "highlights" of a game. Information on composer, artists or programmers on certain games (where they deserve mention) could be put elsewhere in the article. Though music for some games is very good, none of it has become as mainstream as some movie themes, for

2407:

I was thinking about listing it under designer as well. I'm sure some people consider this a useless addition but just to offer some pre-emptive argumentation: I think there are more games of which the "composer" is known than the "engine". However, a alternate suggestion is to redefine "designers"

1581:

I agree with this. Internet game should probably be renamed to "Web-based game" or "Broser-based game" to avoid ambiguity with "online games" such as MMORPGs or whatever. Also I think this discussion should be moved to it's own talk page with a notice posted on the Project page to attract people to

1546:

Next, Internet games are already included in the list (though, not in the graphic--it was just a draft). But the Internet games section as you have it needs to be cleaned up. What exactly is an Internet game? Does the technology used to implement the game (PHP, Java, Flash) really matter? After

1120:, and God knows what else that I'm not aware of ATM. Your change isn't just a minor fix. It's going to change everything - from the way we categorize articles, to the way we name certain articles (including perhaps this WikiProject), although I'd love to see certain ones that clash be changed (e.g. 856:

I agree with many points, but not the separation of handheld game from console game. A good portion of handheld games are ports of console games, or they are based off series that are established on home consoles. There's a lot more cross-pollination between console and handheld games than there is

531:). Many people use the term "video game" interchangably with "computer game" and "arcade game." And they are not wrong, they're just not being specific. Video games are a superset of computer games, video game console games, handheld games, arcade games and games users can play on cell phones and 162:

would be both MS-DOS and Windows. Windows backward compatiblity is pretty darn good, so no distiction should be made with between Windows 3.1/9x/ME/NT4/2k/XP (thank goodness). It's only natural that someone looking for a specific game on Linux (or Mac, etc.), should find entries on those categroies

3530:

I think that the point here is that your interpretation of WPCVG guidelines is ridiculously narrow. These are suggestions, not absolute laws, and good faith edits that try to uphold the spirit of these suggestions should not be disregarded simply because you don't like them or don't understand the

3312:

Well, what about those multi-platform releases? Is keeping a status quo really necessary when there might be a better alternative? And as for the aesthetic comments, you're right, that's more of a value judgement. BTW, I quickly browsed through some pages in the archives before posting this, could

3302:

Cover art can go in the gallery as far as I'm concerned. In the infobox we should stick with the boxart. Even though your arguments regarding multi-platform releases have merit, I think you'll find that this has been discussed so,so,so many times already that most people here will be happy to keep

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infobox yet). However there's no standard for how big images should be. The image of the Nintendo Revolution is much smaller than the Xbox 360 one, for example. Personally, I would suggest that smaller images are better. If someone wants to view the larger version, it's only one click away anyway.

1320:

I understand your points but I don't agree with getting rid of the Computer and video game main article. Too much points to it and hangs off it for now. As a quick "band-aid" fix, we should probably add another redirect pointing to it, called "Computer and console game". Can't you add some text in

1019:

Let me try to respond to some of the objections. First, I'm not beating a dead horse. IIRC, the other proposal was to combine the definitions of computer games and console games (what was--and still is--being called video games). I was, and still am, against that. What I want us to do is start

133:

Not all PC games are exclusive to Windows. That said, I'm not really sure if PC games is really needed. Perhaps someone can enlighten me how this can be useful besides being yet another umbrella category. Emulators aside, if it's for Windows it should be in Windows. If it's for DOS it should be in

3606:

article could use some more elaboration- I plan to add a page on the Ultimate being, terms for Neo Midocondrian cretures (and they're articficial counterparts). What do you think of that idea..? Also, can we get someone well versed in the game to elaborate more on the story in PE2..? That section

3359:

Mm. I think for those cases multiple versions of box art should be posted instead. Sometimes a game will have different cover art for different ports. Other times, different versions may have different content, or be completely different games (Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt for NES, for example, was a

3261:

There was recently some disagreement over the policy of using box art images. Mainly, whether to use exclusively pictures of the box packaging, or the cover art contained therein. Most games do indeed use pictures of the box packaging itself, and most of these are lifted from the product pages of

3049:

A lot of what you have is not necessary or the amount of information is too much for the infobox. Controller specs for instance is too large. It's easy for old systems like the NES, but what about systems like the N64 and Revolution. You have to explain the Z button, the analog sticks, the way in

2001:

to be included, expanded and worked upon, etc. for us in 0.5/1.0. The way I see it, core topics for WP:CVG include systems (NES, Xbox, Genesis, etc), major franchises (Mario, Zelda, Halo, Final Fantasy, etc), and maybe game companies (Nintendo, Sega, Bungie, etc). I think I might work on adding

1810:

and the history of that article should be preserved somehow in the video game article ("Computer and video games" was the only article used as a source). However, I don't know how to move the history over without just moving the "Computer and video games" to "Video game" which of course we don't

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of work, especially splitting the categories up and recategorizing everything. I do agree, however, with making separate articles for console and computer and handheld games, with a video game article being the parent one that links to all those. But I have a feeling that the video game article

792:

The categories definitely concerns me as well. I don't agree with breaking that up. There are entirely too many games that are for the computer and consoles and it just seems redundant. Maybe just a rename there. I'd like to see more discussion on all of this before I really sign off on the whole

557:

I suggest we try to straighten out our thinking and set about fixing this. Referring to console games as "video games" is not only a disservice to ourselves but to our readers as well. We're trying to explain to them that video games are games played on home video game consoles and telling them

3445:

Well anetode, as far as images needing to be sourced, is correct. The PDZ box cover (the one with the Xbox logos etc) is unsourced. Knowledge policy dictates all images must be sourced. That said, however, I don't think it's too hard to find where these particular box covers came from. You could

3407:

To be perfectly clear: I did not start an edit war. Check out the relevant talk pages and histories and see for yourself. Also, I am not trying to go against anything, these two were earnest attempts at improvement because I found fair use images that came with the copyright holder's permission.

1542:

Next, pinball games do not belong under the video game category. They do not fit the definition of a "game that uses a video monitor as its primary form of output (or feedback)." While some pinball games do have video monitors, they are not the primary part of the game the user interacts with.

769:

Seems like you put a lot of thought into it. I've never really had a problem with most of what you listed. I don't see a need to break up the Categories for each year, or create a console game and comp. game articles. Having 2 wikiprojects under one called "WikiProject:Video games" seems kind of

242:

game. (Broad terminology) --Windows games Windows 9x/ME/NT/2K/XP games should be apart of this category and listed as on a Windows platform. --Linux games Linux games should be apart...on a Linux platform. --Mac games Mac...platform. --etc Repeat ad-infinitum.

3169:

I noticed your head page labels the anime games category as strictly for games based on anime or manga titles. There are a bunch of pages floating around that are getting lumped into the anime games category that have nothing to do with anime but use a stereotyped art style, particularly ren'ai

2244:

is fine, of course, if there is no other type of game (such as a board game) called "Normality". But if one is created, you'll have to go through all the wikilinks and disambiguate them. I'd opt for the more verbose wikilink, just for safety's sake. Plus, most of our articles use the verbose

2190:

the same are annoying. If the article states which platform the game is for (preferably simply stating GameCube, Nokia nGage, PC, or whatever, as opposed to console/video/mobile/computer/PC/home entertainment systems/PDA/whatever), the article name needen't be that descriptive, especially until

2127:

Actually I added infoboxes to some articles (and looked at some existing ones), and put in an empty line because it didn't seem to make sense to treat the infobox and the block of text as 1 thing, and I didn't notice it moved down the text, probably because the warning the "Show preview" button

1261:

it looks like "original research" to me, forcing a logical structure onto games that is not used on current authoritative consumer and industry game sites. It's not our job here to invent a structure, but to report on the ones used "out there", even if they're inconsistent. So I'd say, keep the

1023:

I'm not dead-set on changing the categories. And, to be honest, that was more of an afterthought. My biggest desire is to start using the term "video game" correctly. I think the best (and easiest) thing we can do is create the umbrella "video game" article which describes what it means and

2968:

I'm not too crazy about this idea, but I don't really have a problem with it either. I don't agree with some of the fields listed above. First off, the template (if we have one) should only be used for handhelds and consoles IMHO. I drew up an example of what I think should be included, see

3783:. Now it's reverted to the more generic console controller and the Shiori icon image is scheduled to be deleted. Is there a reason not to use the image on that stub template? It adds a lot more flavour than a generic controller (which is inaccurate for many anime games anyway). Shiori from 883:

Handheld games have a smaller screen, portability, and less hardware power. However, they tend to have the same types of games as their home counterparts, just a generation or two behind. The input method, excluding the DS, is generally the same, with control setups resembling home system

2392:

As long as the field is optional, and there is no reason for it not to be, I wouldn't mind having it. For certain games it's definately important (and of course for others it's useless). I also agree with Gakon in that it should simply be below the designer, who is still more important.

3970:

That's great. I need someone to fill me in on the story fro PEII and/or expand the article so we can list the stroy of the game more in detail. Please ethier expand the story in the article in detail, or if you don't want to, send me the info (maybe a dialoge script) and I'll write it.

553:

article, which, as well as being unweildly, just plain doesn't make sense. As an analogy, it would be like having a "Hamburgers and foods", or a "Beer and alcholic beverages" category or a "Sid Meier and people" article. Video games are a superset of computer games, not a peer.

1777:

I'd like to restore the article text and would love everyone pitch in editing it until it's something we can all agree on. But I'm not going to start an edit war. I thought we had a consenses to take baby steps in the re-org, and that was the first step. I hope I'm clear. :-)

1127:

I'm not totally objecting here, but I'd like to know more, specifically, on what will and won't be effected by your proposal. I don't think it's within our best interest to, at the moment, jump into the middle of all this and begin renaming articles etc without a solid plan.

3718:

Hi, I'm new to this project and want to contribute as much as possible. I was wondering if an older member could tell me if it's okay to put boss strategies in the game as long as it isn't very much strategy and I don't give too much away. Can someone please fill me in?

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under one banner. That is, I proposed all video games be organized under—imagine this—the term "video game" and get rid of the artificial dichotomy between "video game" and "computer game." Responses were mixed, but we came to a sort of consensus: first a draft of a new

805:

would be very repetitive as most of the information would already be included in those articles. Still, if you have the time to do all this and do it accurately, then I'm for it. I wouldn't recommend going all-out and making separate templates and wikiprojects, though.

948:". If you have to, you could write "the Nintendo GameCube video game console" or something like that, but that's not as good. People know the Nintendo GameCube is a video game console. If they wonder what a GameCube is, they can click on that. Maybe this is at odds with 1158:

I would never make a change of this sort without first reaching a consensus. I proposed a lot of things at the beginning, but I've scaled back what I want to do because of some objections and issues raised by other members. The only thing I'm proposing to do now are:

1002: 1099:

I object for the moment because I'm lost at exactly what you're planning to do here. I understand your initial proposal and although I have some objections (which I noted earlier), I don't necessarily disagree with everything that you've proposed. We currently have

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the current main article, for now, summarizing your discussions here, plus write the new article pages you want, and add links to them? Maybe when we see them in writing, the anxiety at changing what was already debated and agreed to earlier will be eased. --

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I'm not sure about this. It's almost impossible to find accurate (and reliable) sources for video games' sales figures, and even the ones we can find are disputable. Usually only sales of the really popular video games are known, but even then... The page of

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on this project page, where you can create a game guide for whichever game you wish, and they are a perfect place for game strategies. The "Content" section linked above should clear up any doubts you have regarding the information you wish to include. –

3580:

Just add your name to the participants. This isn't a club. It's more like an internal community of the Knowledge community devoted to improving video game articles. We need to really make a statement about this. We get questions like this all the time.

2198:, short and to the point. This way the article can discuss versions for Nokia phones, PCs, GameCubes, whatever, which I think is preferable to almost identical pages, or worse completely different pages on almost identical games. Of course for instance 3397:

Anetode starts a edit war in these articles because of your "consolided consensus" arguments. I just request a admin to protect for this be discuss properly and engage all WPCVG community, not a guy "who think I'm right the rest for 2 years here not".

2875:

Similar to the CVG infobox, we should create a infobox for video game templates i think, giving a minimal set of important characteristics like its market status at the time, hardware, media, number of games, countries of primary sucess, and so on.

2497:

I think we need to draw the line somewhere. I think where we have it now is pretty good. This isn't a bad suggestion, but once we include composers, I think we'd eventually be compelled to mention others as well. Of course, this is all just MHO.

2006:

page thing. Unfortunetly, I think WikiProject CVG has been deemed inactive, as it hasn't been contacted about compiling a set of core topics/articles. Although, it appears that a lot of WPs haven't been contacted, so maybe that isn't the case. --

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score). Anyway, point I'm argueing: composers shouldn't be left out in this infobox. As it is right now I don't really find a place in the box to put the composer (to list them as "designer" seems too much like a stretch to me). What do you think?

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overview article. Reorganize it as needed but don't change the title. I would like to it cite an authoritative referenced statement like "The Entertainment Software Association classifies games as Video Game genres or Computer Game genres. Source:

895:

We're essentially agreeing here that they're games. Although on the opposite side of the spectrum, your words could mean the same for console games and computer games. But they're not the same. They're developed for an entirely different audience.

1711:

I went ahead and reverted this back. Not to say I don't disagree with the whole idea for this, but there clearly isn't a consensus here. Tons and tons of things need to be changed, not just a simple article. Another problem here is the history of

3338:

I'm sorry, it appears we had our channels flipped. I agree that using box art is the best method, but for the arguments outlined above, I think that using the cover art itself (that is, the image depicted in the packaging layout) is preferable.

3789:

is one of the most recognisable and archetypal anime game images, and I'd be in favour of using her icon as a representation of anime games in the stub template. Can anyone (especially whoever inserted the generic controller) comment on this?

3564:

Salutations. I was on user Thunderbrand's page a while ago, when i noticed he was a member of this "posse" on his userpage. Naturally, as a user that has made numerous projects and edits for video games, I was just wondering- Can i join your

478:

Ok I added the cvg wikiportal to the "Culture" subject portal on the browse page. I also added entertainment and game categories under "culture" category and game category under "personal life" category on same browse page. Good catch! :) --

1760:. I didn't get any negative feedback on this suggestion. Yes, a lot of content was pulled from the "computer and video games" article, but—eventually—it (the C&VG article) was going to be replaced (by several other articles, such as 1445:. Also, a major component that has been emerging the last 5 years is internet-based games (Not talking about online games). Some of these can be played over internet on consoles (Dreamcast), handhelds (PSP), and PCs (Windows, Linux, Mac). 1845:

I think we should compile a list of essential CVG-related articles for inclusion in the 1.0 Knowledge, in the process identifying which ones are missing or need improvement. Maybe we should also try to work toward a CVG WikiReader? -

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page. Edit to your delight. I moved over the comments from the Talk page while it was in development. There are still some issues with it, but I think they can more efficiently be resolved now that it is posted in the right space.

3505:

sourced poster or use a sourced box cover. It truly doesn't matter so long as the basic guidelines and policies of Knowledge are upheld. Which to use should be handled case by case (what looks better, is it sourced, licensing, etc).

3226:? What's wrong with placing things like Dragon Ball Z games here? These titles belong here as far as I can tell, though I don't know what "ren'ai" is. Could you give an example of an article you feel doesn't belong in this category? 125:

The few that I checked worked on multiple platforms. Windows is certainly the more restrictive of those two categories, since there were DOS games on Intel pcs before Windows. Oh, how I remembered booting up my pc with Ultima 7...

512:. There's a big difference in how they're played, the people who play them, their target market, etc. Eventually they were merged, but to the objection of many. However, this has become part of the problem, not the solution. 2640:

Now that it is possible to add optional fields to the infobox, I was thinking it might be an idea to add a sales figures field to the box. I can't find a reliable source for such figures however, surely one must exist. On the

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for the PC and for the GBA are completely different games, but I am still not sure if in those cases multiple pages are wanted. Another con is just "game" could just as well indicate a board game, and there is in fact a

3276:

Some game publishers/designers also release promotional designs used in the product packaging for their games. These are sometimes packaged in "fansite kits", and include great quality hi-rez shots of cover art. (See

1382:. But as he also notes, only about 1% (or probably fewer) fall into that category. I'll post a link to my draft of a new video game article (and maybe another article, like computer game) here after I write it. 753:

Please, this project has done fantastic things. Let's improve the way we refer to the various types of video games as a service to ourselves and our readers. Please bring up any issues, thoughts or concerns.

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is. Later consoles, particularly the X-box, blur the line even more. And to be perfectly blunt, every single CVG article would have to be changed in order to comply with this. I don't see the benefit. Also, a

458: 3033:

Good looks everyone. We should merge gakon 5's with K1bond's. (Gakon5's substanc ewith k1bond's look). I guess form here just got to make all the optional sub-templates to be put in this. Good stuff people

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the discussion. If we're serious about discussing this change, this should be done until a consensus (one way or another) is made since this is a large sweeping change to the entire CVG/VG infrastructure.

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games. Use of "anime" to refer to an art style is slang, which doesn't really make Knowledge look professional. Should these games be moved back to the simulation category where they originally were?

911:

Computer and video games should be changed to just video games in all of the places it needs to be, yes. I don't think recategorizing everything is necessary though. Also, Donkey Kong shouldn't read "

779:

Going as far as pointing out the proper nomenclature seems fine, the rest just creates unnecessary confusion, including the somewhat far-fetched ideas of forking the WP and doubling the categories.

204:

Agreed. It's bothered me for ages, as well, and I've fixed it when I've come across it. If there's a real consensus, though, I'd be willing to go through more systematically and help fixing things. –

1202:

to clean up all the misc. articles and get rid of conflicting ones, but that is beyond the scope of what I propose we do initially. I only propose to do the first 2 items described above right now.

3060:- which other manufacturers like Sega may need to follow), expansion ports (unnecessary), controller specs, discontinued (how does one come to an answer on this?), tech specs (too much, example see 2236:

could not be referred to as video games). That use of terminology is starting to change and "video game" is an umbrella term where you could discuss the computer and console versions of the game.

1822:

Yes admins can move histories, it's actually more of a work around (deleting pages and restoring them with overlapped histories. It can create lots of problems so it's not done all the time see,

701: 546: 3543:

If you you're arguing this out, you obviously have a "problem" with it. Don't twist my words to make it sound like I was being somewhat sinister and attacking you. It's so clearly not the case.

1062:

Although I don't think games can be divided into sets and supersets as neatly as your graphic shows, I agree with your definition of "video game" and I support the renaming of the terms used. --

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seems like a stub. Finally, I posted a few questons on Aya Brea's talk page- culd we get someone well versed in the events of the game(s) to answer them..? Please get back to me on my talkpage-

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The history of articles show all. Lets hear what other community members think about this. The current problem is that you start replacing the images before proper dicuss with the community. --

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of the box packaging. However considering multi-platform and multi-national releases, the most likely common component is the cover art - essentially an elaborate rendering of the game logo. --

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Both "computer games" and "video games" are frequently used as umbrella terms for interactive game software. To avoid ambiguity, this game software is referred to as "computer and video games".

650:, which is alredy its own WikiProject). I don't think this is going to happen, but let's straighten out our terminology and start referring to games correctly, realizing what they encompass. 497:

For a while now, I've been concerned that this project—and all the video game articles in general—are miscategorized and misled and this has led to unweildly categorizations and terminology.

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over of each and points to the separate articles on each. This article could also cover any topics that apply to the video game market as a whole (e.g. perhaps a history, economic impact).

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Oh, okay. Just wanted to make a verification first to make sure its okay. Thanks. Also, feel free to take a look at the projects on my userpage and tell me what you think on my talkpage. -

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Sounds good; In my ninitial spec, i never really wanted too verbatim of details. Just small rankings and maybe one or two word links. But yea less is more. Lets start the oficial template

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I've had posted for weeks, but which no one has, as yet, commented on. It is the first step to this whole re-organization effort. Please take a look at it and thanks for the comments.

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I don't know this game specifically, but it seems to me that rather than writing more detail on the specific creatures in the game, more should be written about the gameplay itself.

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I disagree with this. Handheld games and console games are different - the same way computer games are different than console games; most of those are just back-and-forth ports too.

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After Mateusc began impulsively reverting any of my changes, I decided to discuss it with him. And to discuss it with WPCVG project in general, hence the posting of this section. --

2003: 1977: 3186:), then "Games based on anime series" would be more appropriate, while also having a "Games influenced by anime and manga" category for the ones purely inspired by the style (like 1531:

Sorry about the belated response, but I object to the "PC game" category. PC is ambiguous and only refers to IBM PC compatibles and leaves out Macs and all the computers from the

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the current consensus. Regarding what you feel is aesthetically preferable, I disagree (I prefer having the packaging details), but that's something we'll never get consensus on.

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On the problems. Jacoplane, agree I'm with you, for all that I saw here in Knowledge:Computer and Videogames. And I would like to request (this is great opporunity) comments in:

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controller specs (it's in my template; features, buttons, etc) - maybe keep, or drop if it's not neciserry that we explain that the NES had four buttons, or the SNES had eight...

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I thought it might be that. That gaps appears on articles where the infobox has two new lines underneath it before the lead paragraph starts. Removing one fixes the problem, i.e.

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Actually, I did, via the article talk pages. But I'm sorry that I did not check in with you. Would you like to be notified of every videogame-related edit I make from now on? --

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different game than Pugsley's Scavenger Hunt for SNES. A few of the Magic Knight Rayearth games were just called Magic Knight Rayearth with no sub-title as well, for example.)

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I agree. I also think K1Bond007's infobox is the best here. I really feel the infobox should just contain essential information, and all the rest can go in the article itself.

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are used. However, as far as I can tell they only cover North America. Does anyone know of a better source? I think this information really belongs in an Encyclopedia article.

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I'm not sure if any push to even get near 0.5 is underway, or even 1.0, but I'll make a comment nonetheless. One proposed method for getting suitable articles together is by

705: 2958:. Design-wise, it could look like the CVG and AG infoboxes, but maybe with a different color (sort of like what WikiProject Albums does; seven variants of the same box). -- 2750: 2689: 2156:

The break right after the start a paragraph is what caused it. Strange place for a break, but that's what you get when you let software generate pages. Anyway, sorry again!

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Ignore the erroneous templates. They are only broken because the article is not in the main article namespace—they will work correctly once the draft is a real article.

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I agree with much of what you've said. I suggested using "video games" as an umbrella term long ago (before people settled for C&VG), but things didn't go that way.

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It's not a free image. Fair use of such an image would be allowed in the article on that particular anime, but not as a generic image to be used throughout wikipedia.

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and scroll down to the bottom. I pretty much went with every suggested field, although I agree with 'Bond here on some points... here's what I think about each field:

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always puts at the top, throwing me off. Sorry about that; I shall remove the white lines where I see them from now on. Looking at the code, this is what's happening:

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I'm not proposing changing everything at once. I proposed that earlier and it was quickly shot down. Instead I proposed doing a little at a time. So I started the

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Should we develop separate templates for computer games, console games and handheld games (the latter which has no template now, AFAIK)? (My vote, no, we shouldn't).

3774: 2681: 2629: 1733: 3888: 2509: 1830: 1724: 1586: 1525: 1132: 863: 208: 2596: 2531: 2256: 1152: 3897: 3077: 2672: 2460:? I think that an argument could be made for many of them for certain games. Of course, they're many games where one or all of them are negligible. But they'd 2311: 1705: 1647: 1331: 1311: 1247: 890: 849: 3703: 3158: 3145: 3103: 3090: 3068: 2977: 2378: 2160: 1967: 1910: 1897: 1743: 1657:

redirect with the article draft in my sandbox? There are still a few issues with it, but they can be resolved after it is posted (and may, in fact, be resolved

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I wasn't specifically talking about using artwork, rather about the discussion of whether using boxart is the best method. The most recent discussion was about

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in the box, since I've always thought that term to be rather vague anyway. Where do we put programmers or planners? Perhaps a more broadly defined "credits"? --

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Btw, a different question: how do I join this project? I spend most of my time on Knowledge improving video game articles anyway. I did a lot of work on the

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has a great deal of discussion of that topic, including the current plan to clean the entries up and split them into sublists. The discussion is ongoing. -

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article should be drafted, copyedited and discussed, at which point it could replace the current article (which is just a redirect to the peculiar article

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surmmurize on a boss's behavioral patteren(s), etc., but only if it has relevance to a charater's article and/or history. But not really, no; that's what

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lists the game as the best-selling Genesis game of all time but I have yet to find a reliable source to back this claim with exact numbers. They say even

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articles. Many objected, including me. Computer games, of course, were games played on a computer. Video games, on the other hand, are games played on

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I guess the only problem with removing the PC games category is that games compatible with multiple os's would have to be listed in multiple categories.

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as well? Especially since we are cleaning up the categorization somewhat? * wants incoming users to be able to find all the great gaming articles * --

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Well, if the category is named "Anime games" it's simply open to broad interpretations. If the category is strictly for games based on series (say,

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Ditto. On the occasion that the composer is worth mentioning, they're surely worthy enough for a sentence or two of elaboration in the article. –

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The fact that two topics can be grouped together doesn't mean there needs to be one article about them. For example, we don't have an article on

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To be honest, I prefer the generic cvg controller icon over the anime one. Boring as I might be, I think it makes it look more professional. -

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for instance. If a name is obviously a game, no ambiguity whatsoever, nothing is added between brackets either, so it's optional to begin with.

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Does this wikiproject have notability guidelines established? It would be helpful to have in order to vote on deletion or policy, for example

2743: 2619: 1854: 1068: 952:, but the way had it does not sound good. So really all this should be is moving everything with computer and video games to just video games. 2642: 3851:

It would be really cool if someone made a nice png/svg anime character icon and put it in the wikimedia commons for us to use! (hint hint!)

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On second thought, allow me to rephrase that statement: May I become a participant of the WikiProject Computer and video games community..?-

3296: 1281: 3759: 2543: 1768:, etc.). So, eventually, there wouldn't be redundant information. A lot of the content is new, tailored specifically to video games, not 806: 142: 116: 3912:

I'm inquiring about PE again, since it seems no one noticed my last request above...Does anyone here know about the analytical aspects of

3768: 3726: 1271::" and go from there. Then summarize the nuances of genre, platform, on-line vs. standalone, etc., with split-off articles if needed. -- 3585: 2775:

and removed the old ifd notices, I could find no reference to them in the deletion logs. (I know I voted, but it ain't there anymore).

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How about breaking it up? Here is a simple structure that can be adopted by the WikiProject. This touches on the other section called

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But I'm not attempting to reorganize the genres of games, just what platforms they belong to. Like I said much earlier, having the

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In order for this to be clear, let me back up and give some history. Way back (a few months ago), a new user suggested merging the

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It's not just about video game consoles though. Handhelds and the industry in general too. I think we're fine with what we have.

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Agreed. It could probably just go under the Designer field, as they're both pretty much secondary fields that are optional. --

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Video Games No games categoried here. (Very broad terminology) -Computer games No games categoried as being a

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since the term "video game" refers to all digital games that use video displays. For a long time, we've been calling

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What term should we use to refer to a game that is both a computer game and console game (i.e. there are versions for

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Well, I just think there is endless information we could include in the infobox. I just hope this doesn't lead to a

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deal. I'd hate to make a switch this big (again) and learn down the road that we didn't take something into account.

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That's what Gamefaqs is for. I want to know more of the storyline for PEII so we can explore its analytical aspects.

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article: it's lumping a subset in with its superset. I can't do the reorganization I proposed by starting with the

712:. If a game is both a computer game and a console game, that's not a problem: we can include it in both categories. 661:

article and have it explain what the term encompasses (arcade games, console games, computer games, handheld games).

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they have to adopt our misused terminology in order to understand our articles. Therefore, the opening sentence of

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What does everyone think? I think it would be useful in unifying the layout of hte console pages to some degree --

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board game for instance. In those cases more descriptive stuff can always be added between brackets, just like

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Since there haven't been any more comments for a few days, can I assume everyone is okay with me replacing the

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if I found sourced boxart image, I should replace in the game article because Knowledge prefer sourced images

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expansion ports - does that mean stuff like Ethernet ports, or the Expansion Pak for the N64? Probably drop.

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I'm almost certain this has been discussed before, but the current naming system for console histories at

2326:. I really like the infobox as it is right now but I've been thinking that it would be interesting to add 279: 949: 824:

I'm not sure I agree, and consensus was already reached on this issue in the archives of this talk page.

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Wow, you've just succinctly communicated what took me three meandering parapgraphs to try to explain. --

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for the article. I know this is un-wiki, but I think it'll help keep changes to the article consistent.

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two recent articles that I uploaded stores boxcovers instead to choice the Fankit sourced available. --

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I think any people worth mentioning should be done in the designer's box. Perhaps is should be renamed

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to me seems unnecesary long, and in my opinion the varying bracketed additions after what are all just

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Apart from grammatical, punctuation, spelling and other minor changes, please post proposed changes to

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is a little awkward, especially since it uses parenthetical disambiguation so much (see, for example,

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PS, I'm gonna start the handheld games article with a stub because that should really have something.

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Sega, etc). Another required field should probably be Tech Specs for the system. A better word for

2862: 2608: 519:. That is all. They are not console games or computer games alone. They are both. They are also 3390: 2821: 2720: 2187: 1916: 1840: 1807: 1757: 1713: 1611: 1607: 1561: 1404: 1400: 1297: 1289: 1263: 1191: 1101: 1041: 977: 676: 665: 550: 409: 3494:

days without a source is now eligible for speedy deletion. Although the images are usually tagged

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Oh, and I like the logo and color change stuff on your template.. looks much better than mine ;)

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Alrighty then, I just C+P'd the CVG Infobox and made a template... with a lot of fields. Go to

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I'm perfectly willing to do this work myself. Is there any support for this one, small change?

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I don't see why not; although designer is missing, that would be a crucial one (like NES -: -->

2602: 2263: 2225: 1554: 1113: 492: 387: 378: 372: 112: 2232:"video games" and excluding all other types of video games from that definition (for example, 1082:? If not, I'll go ahead and start working on this--just the definition of "video game" part. 154:

I would think that they would've already been listed in multible platform categories anyways.

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series,...). Nowadays even regular music artists have begun to write videogame scores (think

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consensus is reached about the whole naming deal making it confusing instead of descriptive.

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article that describes what a video game is and points out the various types of video games (

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artilce, but some of it is original material. Please take some time and take a look at it.

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Except by direct search, incoming users looking for gaming articles would follow this path:

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Not to start another computer/video/console discussion, but... this is slightly different.

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I changed it because wikipedia has a policy against using non-free images in templates.

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I have no "problem" as your rude words, I only try to keep WPCVG articles standard. See

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I'm confused. This proposal seems ignorant of the fact that we already have articles on

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Didn't mean to redirect but to include link to category page. Regarding list have you

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Should we refer to a console game as a "console game" or a "video game console game"?

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convention and it's be easier for users to link to your article. Just my $ .02...

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controller ports (or number of supported controllers, for wireless ones) - keep it

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article first, then ask for feedback on it before actually posting it. And, yes,

115:? Do all the games in the "PC games" category work on other OS's besides Windows? 3928: 3852: 3810: 3182: 2776: 2560: 2423: 2336: 2275: 1931: 1861: 3154:.. shouldn't this category be a subcategory of the video game console category? 3064:). I'm not too keen on Market status either, sales would be fine (if optional). 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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Redirecting to a category is probably not a good idea. Why not just update the

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market status - keep, but maybe change to "Sales Figures" or something similar

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I, too, object. Please do not begin changing the organization without a plan.

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video games are games that use a video display as their primary form of output

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I've played and beaten them both, though not recently (and I sold my copy of

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categories (including all the other years) and have separate categories for

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article, which currently has no article (but which is a type of video game).

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But is the list current enough? Should we edit the article to also point to

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Why does the template create a space at the top of the articles it is on? —

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from the rest and doesn't offer anything beneficial to the categorizing of

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What it is supposed to be (the table being the infobox): </table: -->

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That's what we'd have to decide (if you are referring to the articles).

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Okay, I have a draft, which took much of it's content from the current

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I can't speak for everyone, but personally I think they would be good.

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Just go to the project page and put your name in alphabetical order.

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I agree. Composer information is interesting, but far from crucial.

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Here is a screenshot rendered in Firefox. It also happens in IE. —

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I can't see that it does. Could you provide a couple of examples?

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article, scavenging some information on it for the other articles.

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Knowledge:WikiProject Computer and video games/Essential articles

942: 925: 611: 584: 578: 528: 3645:). I propose that the articles instead reside at something like 2677:

What's wrong with just saying the sales figures in the article?

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include wikilinks to the types of games that belong to it (i.e.

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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Computer and video games/Noticeboard

2024:

Knowledge talk:WikiProject Computer and video games/Peer review

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A few here may remember some while back (circa 6 weeks ago), I

523:. It even encompasses handheld games (e.g. games played on a 428:- (listed in section "Culture" subsection "Sports and games") 2444: 1614:. Much of the article's content was ported from the current 3116:

A couple of systems now have this template, amongst others:

3271: 3240:"anime", are getting thrown into the anime games category. 2665: 2472: 2438: 2204: 1429:

I really like this idea of changing everything to be under

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Some guy wants delete the samples on the OST's page. See

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proposed reorganizing the computer and video game articles

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Maybe we should take a poll first to gague the interest?

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and ones for every other year as well. We also have the

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etc, but we're moved because the titles were ambiguous.

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composers don't get mentions in their article's infobox.

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If I would start an article on for instance the PC game

1997:, us included. Each project will come up with a set of 256:

Way to show available gaming articles to incoming users?

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articles? Should they belong to their own WikiProject?

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/Sonic: Time Attacked 2

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would cover all the electronic versions. I think that

3313:

you please point to where this has been discussed? --

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what the hell happened to the metal gear characters?!

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doesn't know the figures. Anyway, just my 2 cents. --

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I guess its OK. I don't see anything wrong with it.

2322:I'll just copy-paste here what I talked about with 1610:). I have a draft of this proposed article posted 1219:So how does everyone feel about these two changes? 3137:Now to apply this template to all the entries in 3013:games - keep Killer Apps, but not released games. 2827:There is an ongoing discussion about a merger at 2214:Thanks for anyone who can help to clear this up! 2022:I've created a noticeboard for this project. See 3916:....? Or at least played the two video games..?- 2998:start, end - could be merged into "Lifespan" box 2697:. Someone merged all of them without asking. -- 1269:http://www.theesa.com/facts/sales_genre_data.php 1003:proposal to use "video game" as an umbrella term 3643:History of video games (Seventh generation era) 3753:a "GameFAQs"-like initiative at Wikibooks, as 3242:Free Talk Studio ~Mari no Kimama na O-Shaberi~ 2615:. Do I just put my name under contributors? -- 2339:), not to mention classic videogaming scores ( 976:. And I, personally, agree with what's on the 2643:List of best selling computer and video games 459:Knowledge:Wikiportal/Computer and video games 408:- (listed in section "Entertainment") 158:should be listed under both Windows and PS1, 2995:Name, image, gen., type, media - all keepers 2182:page already exists, what should I name it? 1636:Thanks and I look forward to your comments! 1300:article—it's the root of the whole problem. 2144:With the extra white space: </table: --> 3677:? (Incidentally, someone actually created 2892:Type (Dedicated, handheld, arcade system,) 2611:and currently I'm writing articles in the 716:Some issues we might want to resolve are: 627:a video game, but to be specific, it is a 163:even if it is a port of a Windows game. -- 2737:Metal Gear Solid Original Game Soundtrack 217:to be distinct from Mac and Linux games. 172:Oh I didn't make my position clear, oops. 3283:http://kameo.com/RoyalFun/FansiteSupport 2831:. Comments would be much appreciated. -- 2068: 1824:Knowledge:How to fix cut and paste moves 1562:the draft for the new Video game article 1501:Internet game (Not online, or MMORPGs.) 1362:'s wise suggestion and make a stab at a 3086:and continue the conversation there. -- 2756:The samples are now up for deletion. -- 2117:I've fixed it on that example article. 1020:using the term "video game" correctly. 412:- (listed in section "Types of games") 14: 1915:Ok, found what you are talking about: 1689:Okay, I posted the new article on the 857:between console and computer games. -- 646:would be sub-projects of it (so would 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 18:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Video games 3679:Seventh-generation video game console 3647:Seventh-generation video game console 1756:article which was just a redirect to 545:Right now, we have a category called 275:Entertainment - Game - Types of games 3062:Sega Saturn#Technical specifications 352:paths from main page to cvg articles 25: 3769:Image for anime games template stub 3639:History of computer and video games 2422:. If we include composer, why not 2272:Normality (computer and video game) 2200:Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time 1929:(please link items when proposing!) 1661:if it is posted). Any objections? 280:Computer and video games - See also 23: 3222:For clarity, are we talking about 2709:Talk:List of Metal Gear characters 1995:contacting individual Wikiprojects 1860:Sounds great, but what are those? 1802:mentioned is correct: most of the 1007:Please stop beating the dead horse 404:(called "Article overviews") 24: 3984: 3675:Seventh-generation video game era 836:) 19:49, September 10, 2005 (UTC) 424:(called "Browse Knowledge") 391:Category:Computer and video games 385:Category:Computer and video games 376:Category:Computer and video games 370:Category:Computer and video games 300:Category:Computer and video games 3778: 2482:) or TV series themes (e.g. the 2040:Infobox CVG creating extra space 1593:The start of the re-organization 1058:22:23, September 12, 2005 (UTC) 797:04:03, September 10, 2005 (UTC) 765:00:55, September 10, 2005 (UTC) 634:In a perfect world, we'd have a 538: 29: 900:02:42, September 13, 2005 (UTC) 872:20:42, September 10, 2005 (UTC) 774:01:53, September 10, 2005 (UTC) 426:Portal:Computer and video games 3576:22:49 20, November 2005 (UTC) 3569:22:43 20, November 2005 (UTC) 2318:Add "Composer" to the infobox? 1450:So my version of this idea is: 1437:really only seems to seperate 1394:19:00, 28 September 2005 (UTC) 1353:10:59, 21 September 2005 (UTC) 1332:04:42, 21 September 2005 (UTC) 1312:22:15, 20 September 2005 (UTC) 1292:article is just like having a 1282:20:52, 20 September 2005 (UTC) 1248:20:38, 20 September 2005 (UTC) 1231:20:16, 20 September 2005 (UTC) 1214:22:05, 15 September 2005 (UTC) 1153:19:23, 15 September 2005 (UTC) 1133:18:37, 15 September 2005 (UTC) 1094:17:00, 15 September 2005 (UTC) 1069:19:04, 13 September 2005 (UTC) 1014:02:26, 11 September 2005 (UTC) 962:21:27, 10 September 2005 (UTC) 891:02:28, 13 September 2005 (UTC) 864:20:34, 10 September 2005 (UTC) 850:19:53, 10 September 2005 (UTC) 814:19:45, 10 September 2005 (UTC) 788:02:27, 10 September 2005 (UTC) 107:What's the difference between 13: 1: 3975:13:41 29,November 2005 (UTC) 3965:10:51, 29 November 2005 (UTC) 3898:18:18, 29 November 2005 (UTC) 3889:10:50, 29 November 2005 (UTC) 3847:10:06, 29 November 2005 (UTC) 3805:13:08, 28 November 2005 (UTC) 3795:11:58, 28 November 2005 (UTC) 3763:23:38, 28 November 2005 (UTC) 3727:22:37, 27 November 2005 (UTC) 3659:14:21, 23 November 2005 (UTC) 3629:7:17 21, November 2005 (UTC) 3620:15:22, 28 November 2005 (UTC) 3611:5:40 21, November 2005 (UTC) 3586:22:45, 20 November 2005 (UTC) 3548:06:11, 20 November 2005 (UTC) 3539:05:03, 18 November 2005 (UTC) 3526:00:30, 18 November 2005 (UTC) 3510:22:37, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3489:21:15, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3463:08:17, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3451:06:42, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3437:06:33, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3425:06:20, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3416:06:17, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3403:06:10, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3378:04:08, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3365:04:02, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3347:04:37, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3334:04:14, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3321:03:58, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3308:03:54, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3297:03:45, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3249:02:23, 17 November 2005 (UTC) 3231:22:50, 16 November 2005 (UTC) 3214:22:14, 16 November 2005 (UTC) 3200:11:57, 16 November 2005 (UTC) 3175:00:20, 16 November 2005 (UTC) 3165:Anime game category conflicts 3159:23:50, 29 November 2005 (UTC) 3146:23:36, 29 November 2005 (UTC) 3104:21:58, 28 November 2005 (UTC) 3091:21:47, 28 November 2005 (UTC) 3078:20:53, 28 November 2005 (UTC) 3069:19:22, 28 November 2005 (UTC) 3039:00:10, 28 November 2005 (UTC) 2978:23:01, 27 November 2005 (UTC) 2943:17:57, 14 November 2005 (UTC) 2866:22:07, 11 November 2005 (UTC) 2829:Talk:Xbox 360 screen of death 2813:10:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC) 2761:17:30, 11 November 2005 (UTC) 2695:List of Metal Gear characters 1831:20:24, 30 November 2005 (UTC) 1818:19:55, 30 November 2005 (UTC) 1790:21:26, 12 November 2005 (UTC) 1621:Please consider these items: 702:1995 computer and video games 547:1995 computer and video games 324:07:49, August 22, 2005 (UTC) 222:10:05, 12 November 2005 (UTC) 138:02:15, August 22, 2005 (UTC) 3704:04:46, 1 December 2005 (UTC) 3691:01:52, 1 December 2005 (UTC) 3139:Category:Video game consoles 2845:01:13, 7 November 2005 (UTC) 2751:21:07, 6 November 2005 (UTC) 2730:17:17, 5 November 2005 (UTC) 2702:11:38, 5 November 2005 (UTC) 2682:17:02, 2 November 2005 (UTC) 2673:15:28, 2 November 2005 (UTC) 2654:14:46, 2 November 2005 (UTC) 2630:14:19, 1 November 2005 (UTC) 2620:12:37, 1 November 2005 (UTC) 2597:02:16, 1 November 2005 (UTC) 2547:05:37, 1 November 2005 (UTC) 2532:02:06, 1 November 2005 (UTC) 2510:23:04, 31 October 2005 (UTC) 2413:22:41, 31 October 2005 (UTC) 2398:21:52, 31 October 2005 (UTC) 2379:19:35, 31 October 2005 (UTC) 2369:18:40, 31 October 2005 (UTC) 2312:02:18, 1 November 2005 (UTC) 2257:18:37, 31 October 2005 (UTC) 2219:16:44, 31 October 2005 (UTC) 2161:14:55, 2 November 2005 (UTC) 2122:13:46, 2 November 2005 (UTC) 2083:00:50, 2 November 2005 (UTC) 2064:23:09, 30 October 2005 (UTC) 2054:22:28, 30 October 2005 (UTC) 2035:02:46, 29 October 2005 (UTC) 1989:11:44, 30 October 2005 (UTC) 1968:09:57, 27 October 2005 (UTC) 1911:16:47, 26 October 2005 (UTC) 1898:12:38, 26 October 2005 (UTC) 1855:15:12, 25 October 2005 (UTC) 1744:17:10, 3 November 2005 (UTC) 1734:14:06, 3 November 2005 (UTC) 1725:03:36, 3 November 2005 (UTC) 1706:17:03, 1 November 2005 (UTC) 1682:19:10, 28 October 2005 (UTC) 1673:19:06, 28 October 2005 (UTC) 1648:18:50, 24 October 2005 (UTC) 1587:19:14, 25 October 2005 (UTC) 1576:15:42, 24 October 2005 (UTC) 1526:03:37, 10 October 2005 (UTC) 489:02:26, 2005 August 26 (UTC) 441:16:57, 2005 August 28 (UTC) 402:Knowledge:Browse by overview 312:07:02, 2005 August 22 (UTC) 251:03:09, 10 October 2005 (UTC) 209:03:13, 10 October 2005 (UTC) 196:02:38, 10 October 2005 (UTC) 130:01:44, August 22, 2005 (UTC) 7: 3744:15:37 28,November 2005(UTC) 2871:Video Game console template 2374:Sounds reasonable to me. -- 1423:21:23, 5 October 2005 (UTC) 1044:is awkward and incorrect. 950:Knowledge:State the obvious 668:article into a redirect to 640:WikiProject: Computer games 473:21:38, 25 August 2005 (UTC) 341:07:55, 2005 August 22 (UTC) 168:07:19, 8 October 2005 (UTC) 150:03:07, 22 August 2005 (UTC) 134:DOS - Linux, Linux etc. ?? 120:01:23, 22 August 2005 (UTC) 10: 3989: 3681:, which I've redirected.) 3152:Category:Nintendo_consoles 2917:Released games (optional) 2270:isn't specific enough and 2114:}} '''''Magic Carpet''''' 2108:}} '''''Magic Carpet''''' 2018:I've created a noticeboard 992:The NES is just as much a 749:)? "Consumer video game"? 726:Should we create separate 644:WikiProject: Console games 2609:Sonic the Hedgehog series 2184:Normality (computer game) 2167:Article naming (brackets) 1005:was voted down, 10 to 4. 675:Salvage what we can from 653:What I propose we do is: 648:WikiProject: Arcade games 577:video game featuring the 103:Another category question 3391:Kameo: Elements of Power 3272:http://katamaridamacy.jp 3209:in their actual genres. 2949:Nintendo; Genesis -: --> 2914:Market status (optional) 2822:Xbox 360 screen of death 2188:computer and video games 1917:Knowledge:Pushing to 1.0 1808:Computer and video games 1806:article was copied from 1758:computer and video games 1714:computer and video games 1616:computer and video games 1608:computer and video games 1560:Lastly, please a look a 1539:is much more inclusive. 1403:article. Take a gander 1401:Computer and video games 1298:Computer and video games 1290:Computer and video games 1264:Computer and video games 1192:computer and video games 1102:Computer and video games 1042:computer and video games 978:computer and video games 937:is a video game for the 677:computer and video games 666:computer and video games 636:WikiProject: Video games 551:Computer and video games 410:Computer and video games 3775:Template:anime-cvg-stub 3268:Image:We ♥ Katamari.jpg 2274:is unnecessarily long. 2149:Magic Carpet</b: --> 2137:Magic Carpet</b: --> 1798:Ug, okay. I know what 1078:. Are there any other 970:personal computer games 934:Donkey Kong Jungle Beat 914:Donkey Kong Jungle Beat 622:Donkey Kong Jungle Beat 600:Donkey Kong Jungle Beat 570:Donkey Kong Jungle Beat 561:Donkey Kong Jungle Beat 350:. Here are the current 3777:used to have the icon 3697:Seventh generation era 3327:box art vs screenshots 2765:I've tagged them with 2264:Normality (video game) 2226:Normality (video game) 2085: 1114:Personal computer game 388:Category:Entertainment 379:Category:Personal life 373:Category:Entertainment 113:Category:Windows games 3695:They were already at 3279:Image:Kameo_cover.jpg 2986:User:Gakon5/Infoboxes 2850:Notability Guidelines 2645:I think figures from 2636:Infobox sales figures 2072: 1255:It is a nice diagram 1122:Handheld game console 1040:wikilink redirect to 1036:, etc.). Having the 800:This will all take a 515:The problem is this: 318:List of gaming topics 285:List_of_gaming_topics 42:of past discussions. 3908:Parasite Eve...again 3671:8-bit video game era 3224:Category:Anime games 3084:Template:Cvg-console 2971:User:K1Bond007/Temp2 2662:Sonic the Hedgehog 2 2430:deserves a line for 1925:Knowledge:WikiReader 1488:(All handhelds here) 1370:'s correct, not all 1342:television and radio 357:Access by category: 3122:Nintendo Revolution 3097:Template:CVG system 2464:be optional, right? 2224:I would think that 2002:some stuff to that 1547:all, we don't call 1466:(All consoles here) 1435:consumer video game 1294:Hamburgers and food 1181:handheld video game 1118:Handheld video game 931:", it should read " 747:video game consoles 706:1995 computer games 679:article and create 510:video game consoles 395:Access by article: 3773:It seems that the 3633:Naming of articles 2353:Sonic the Hedgehog 2178:, considering the 2086: 2004:essential articles 1816:— ] | ] 1739:sooner or later -- 1477:(All PCs/OSs here) 1124:, see discussion). 710:1995 console games 415:Access by browse: 3786:Tokimeki Memorial 3689: 3657: 3386:Perfect Dark Zero 3055:Nintendo hardware 3024:gakon<sup: --> 2960:gakon<sup: --> 2901:Ended: (optional) 2728: 2194:I would vote for 1930: 1360:User talk:Sitearm 1327: 1277: 998:personal computer 939:Nintendo GameCube 919:Nintendo GameCube 812: 605:Nintendo GameCube 575:Nintendo GameCube 564:should not read: 485: 437: 337: 308: 270:Article overviews 160:Master of Orion 2 156:Final Fantasy VII 148: 109:Category:PC games 100: 99: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 3980: 3959: 3956: 3953: 3950: 3947: 3944: 3941: 3938: 3935: 3932: 3883: 3880: 3877: 3874: 3871: 3868: 3865: 3862: 3859: 3856: 3841: 3838: 3835: 3832: 3829: 3826: 3823: 3820: 3817: 3814: 3782: 3685: 3653: 3519:Dungeon Siege II 3503: 3497: 3266:- the source of 3059: 3053: 2905:Controller ports 2807: 2804: 2801: 2798: 2795: 2792: 2789: 2786: 2783: 2780: 2774: 2768: 2718: 2716: 2591: 2588: 2585: 2582: 2579: 2576: 2573: 2570: 2567: 2564: 2528: 2324:User:Frecklefoot 2306: 2303: 2300: 2297: 2294: 2291: 2288: 2285: 2282: 2279: 2268:Normality (game) 2242:Normality (game) 2196:Normality (game) 1962: 1959: 1956: 1953: 1950: 1947: 1944: 1941: 1938: 1935: 1928: 1927:. Sounds great. 1892: 1889: 1886: 1883: 1880: 1877: 1874: 1871: 1868: 1865: 1841:CVG encyclopedia 1814:</nowiki: --> 1772:and video games. 1496:Pinball game (?) 1325: 1275: 1149: 834: 809: 594:It should read: 542: 483: 454:Knowledge:Browse 435: 422:Knowledge:Browse 364:Category:Culture 335: 306: 145: 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 3988: 3987: 3983: 3982: 3981: 3979: 3978: 3977: 3957: 3954: 3951: 3948: 3945: 3942: 3939: 3936: 3933: 3930: 3910: 3881: 3878: 3875: 3872: 3869: 3866: 3863: 3860: 3857: 3854: 3839: 3836: 3833: 3830: 3827: 3824: 3821: 3818: 3815: 3812: 3771: 3716: 3635: 3600: 3562: 3501: 3495: 3480:the point is: " 3259: 3183:Jump Superstars 3167: 3057: 3051: 2910:Expansion ports 2879:someting like 2873: 2860:DropDeadGorgias 2852: 2825: 2805: 2802: 2799: 2796: 2793: 2790: 2787: 2784: 2781: 2778: 2772: 2766: 2740: 2714: 2692: 2638: 2605: 2589: 2586: 2583: 2580: 2577: 2574: 2571: 2568: 2565: 2562: 2558: 2526: 2450:level designers 2337:Richard Jacques 2320: 2304: 2301: 2298: 2295: 2292: 2289: 2286: 2283: 2280: 2277: 2169: 2115: 2109: 2042: 2020: 1960: 1957: 1954: 1951: 1948: 1945: 1942: 1939: 1936: 1933: 1890: 1887: 1884: 1881: 1878: 1875: 1872: 1869: 1866: 1863: 1843: 1813:<nowiki: --> 1595: 1190:Get rid of the 1147: 884:controllers. -- 832: 732:cell phone game 495: 429: 413: 393: 258: 244: 105: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 3986: 3968: 3967: 3909: 3906: 3905: 3904: 3903: 3902: 3901: 3900: 3807: 3770: 3767: 3766: 3765: 3746: 3745: 3715: 3712: 3711: 3710: 3709: 3708: 3707: 3706: 3634: 3631: 3623: 3622: 3602:I believe the 3599: 3596: 3589: 3588: 3561: 3558: 3557: 3556: 3555: 3554: 3553: 3552: 3551: 3550: 3541: 3474: 3473: 3472: 3471: 3470: 3469: 3468: 3467: 3466: 3465: 3443: 3442: 3441: 3440: 3439: 3395: 3394: 3393: 3388: 3356: 3355: 3354: 3353: 3352: 3351: 3350: 3349: 3258: 3257:Infobox images 3255: 3254: 3253: 3252: 3251: 3234: 3233: 3219: 3218: 3217: 3216: 3203: 3202: 3195:w</sup: --> 3166: 3163: 3162: 3161: 3148: 3114: 3113: 3112: 3111: 3110: 3109: 3108: 3107: 3106: 3044: 3043: 3042: 3041: 3025:5</sup: --> 3017: 3016: 3015: 3014: 3011: 3008: 3005: 3002: 2999: 2996: 2990: 2989: 2981: 2980: 2965: 2964: 2961:5</sup: --> 2936: 2935: 2929: 2928: 2927: 2924: 2921: 2915: 2912: 2907: 2902: 2899: 2896: 2893: 2890: 2887: 2884: 2872: 2869: 2851: 2848: 2824: 2819: 2818: 2817: 2816: 2815: 2739: 2734: 2733: 2732: 2691: 2688: 2687: 2686: 2685: 2684: 2637: 2634: 2633: 2632: 2613:Shinobi series 2604: 2603:How do I join? 2601: 2600: 2599: 2556: 2552: 2551: 2550: 2549: 2537: 2536: 2535: 2534: 2513: 2512: 2494: 2493: 2466: 2465: 2448:. What about 2433:Wolfenstein 3D 2420:slippery slope 2405: 2404: 2403: 2402: 2401: 2400: 2319: 2316: 2315: 2314: 2260: 2259: 2238: 2237: 2168: 2165: 2164: 2163: 2153: 2152: 2141: 2140: 2130: 2129: 2113: 2107: 2106: 2105: 2104: 2103: 2102: 2101: 2092: 2090: 2089: 2088: 2087: 2041: 2038: 2030:for more. ^_^ 2019: 2016: 2015: 2014: 1991: 1974: 1973: 1972: 1971: 1970: 1842: 1839: 1838: 1837: 1836: 1835: 1834: 1833: 1793: 1792: 1774: 1773: 1749: 1748: 1747: 1746: 1736: 1687: 1686: 1685: 1684: 1634: 1633: 1630: 1594: 1591: 1590: 1589: 1535:era. I think 1529: 1528: 1518: 1517: 1516: 1515: 1514: 1513: 1512: 1511: 1508: 1505: 1499: 1498: 1497: 1491: 1490: 1489: 1486: 1482:Handheld game 1480: 1479: 1478: 1475: 1469: 1468: 1467: 1464: 1452: 1451: 1447: 1446: 1426: 1425: 1372:computer games 1356: 1355: 1337: 1336: 1335: 1334: 1315: 1314: 1253: 1252: 1251: 1250: 1234: 1233: 1196: 1195: 1188: 1156: 1155: 1136: 1135: 1125: 1072: 1071: 1030:computer games 1017: 1016: 990: 989: 988: 965: 964: 954: 953: 941:featuring the 924:featuring the 908: 907: 906: 905: 904: 903: 902: 901: 876: 875: 874: 873: 853: 852: 838: 837: 821: 820: 819: 818: 817: 816: 776: 775: 751: 750: 743:home computers 739: 724: 721: 714: 713: 698: 691: 673: 662: 619: 618: 610:featuring the 592: 591: 494: 493:Plea for Sense 491: 476: 475: 467: 466: 465: 464: 463: 462: 461: 417: 397: 382:Category:Games 367:Category:Games 359: 345: 344: 343: 342: 296: 295: 294: 293: 292: 291: 290: 289: 288: 287: 257: 254: 233: 229:Plea for Sense 225: 214: 213: 212: 211: 199: 198: 180: 179: 178: 177: 176: 175: 174: 173: 131: 104: 101: 98: 97: 92: 87: 82: 75: 70: 65: 62: 52: 51: 34: 15: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 3985: 3976: 3974: 3966: 3963: 3960: 3926: 3922: 3921: 3920: 3919: 3915: 3899: 3896: 3892: 3891: 3890: 3887: 3884: 3850: 3849: 3848: 3845: 3842: 3808: 3806: 3803: 3799: 3798: 3797: 3796: 3793: 3792:AlexChurchill 3788: 3787: 3781: 3776: 3764: 3761: 3756: 3752: 3748: 3747: 3743: 3739: 3735: 3731: 3730: 3729: 3728: 3725: 3720: 3705: 3702: 3698: 3694: 3693: 3692: 3688: 3684: 3680: 3676: 3672: 3669: 3668: 3667: 3663: 3662: 3661: 3660: 3656: 3652: 3648: 3644: 3640: 3630: 3628: 3621: 3618: 3614: 3613: 3612: 3610: 3605: 3595: 3594: 3587: 3584: 3579: 3578: 3577: 3575: 3570: 3568: 3549: 3546: 3542: 3540: 3537: 3534: 3529: 3528: 3527: 3524: 3520: 3517: 3516:Dungeon Siege 3513: 3512: 3511: 3508: 3500: 3492: 3491: 3490: 3487: 3483: 3479: 3476: 3475: 3464: 3461: 3458: 3454: 3453: 3452: 3449: 3444: 3438: 3435: 3432: 3428: 3427: 3426: 3423: 3419: 3418: 3417: 3414: 3411: 3406: 3405: 3404: 3401: 3396: 3392: 3389: 3387: 3384: 3383: 3381: 3380: 3379: 3376: 3373: 3368: 3367: 3366: 3363: 3358: 3357: 3348: 3345: 3342: 3337: 3336: 3335: 3332: 3328: 3324: 3323: 3322: 3319: 3316: 3311: 3310: 3309: 3306: 3301: 3300: 3299: 3298: 3295: 3292: 3286: 3284: 3281:, offered at 3280: 3274: 3273: 3269: 3265: 3264:We ♥ Katamari 3250: 3247: 3243: 3238: 3237: 3236: 3235: 3232: 3229: 3225: 3221: 3220: 3215: 3212: 3207: 3206: 3205: 3204: 3201: 3197: 3191: 3190: 3185: 3184: 3179: 3178: 3177: 3176: 3173: 3160: 3157: 3153: 3149: 3147: 3144: 3140: 3135: 3131: 3127: 3126:PlayStation 3 3123: 3119: 3115: 3105: 3102: 3098: 3094: 3093: 3092: 3089: 3085: 3081: 3080: 3079: 3076: 3072: 3071: 3070: 3067: 3063: 3056: 3048: 3047: 3046: 3045: 3040: 3037: 3032: 3031: 3030: 3029: 3028: 3026: 3020: 3012: 3009: 3006: 3003: 3000: 2997: 2994: 2993: 2992: 2991: 2987: 2983: 2982: 2979: 2976: 2972: 2967: 2966: 2962: 2957: 2953: 2947: 2946: 2945: 2944: 2941: 2933: 2930: 2925: 2922: 2919: 2918: 2916: 2913: 2911: 2908: 2906: 2903: 2900: 2897: 2894: 2891: 2888: 2885: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2877: 2868: 2867: 2864: 2861: 2857: 2847: 2846: 2843: 2840: 2837: 2834: 2830: 2823: 2814: 2811: 2808: 2771: 2764: 2763: 2762: 2759: 2758:Dangerous-Boy 2755: 2754: 2753: 2752: 2749: 2748:Dangerous-Boy 2745: 2738: 2731: 2726: 2722: 2717: 2710: 2706: 2705: 2704: 2703: 2700: 2699:Dangerous-Boy 2696: 2683: 2680: 2676: 2675: 2674: 2671: 2667: 2663: 2658: 2657: 2656: 2655: 2652: 2648: 2644: 2631: 2628: 2624: 2623: 2622: 2621: 2618: 2614: 2610: 2598: 2595: 2592: 2554: 2553: 2548: 2545: 2541: 2540: 2539: 2538: 2533: 2529: 2523: 2522: 2517: 2516: 2515: 2514: 2511: 2508: 2504: 2500: 2496: 2495: 2491: 2487: 2486: 2481: 2480: 2475: 2474: 2468: 2467: 2463: 2459: 2455: 2451: 2447: 2446: 2441: 2440: 2435: 2434: 2429: 2426:? Certainly 2425: 2421: 2417: 2416: 2415: 2414: 2411: 2399: 2396: 2391: 2390: 2389: 2386: 2382: 2381: 2380: 2377: 2373: 2372: 2371: 2370: 2367: 2362: 2358: 2354: 2350: 2346: 2342: 2338: 2334: 2333:Nobuo Uematsu 2329: 2328:"composer(s)" 2325: 2313: 2310: 2307: 2273: 2269: 2265: 2262: 2261: 2258: 2255: 2251: 2247: 2243: 2240: 2239: 2235: 2231: 2230:console games 2227: 2223: 2222: 2221: 2220: 2217: 2212: 2210: 2206: 2201: 2197: 2192: 2189: 2185: 2181: 2177: 2172: 2162: 2159: 2155: 2154: 2146:<br /: --> 2143: 2142: 2132: 2131: 2126: 2125: 2124: 2123: 2120: 2112: 2099: 2098: 2097: 2096: 2095: 2094: 2093: 2084: 2080: 2076: 2071: 2067: 2066: 2065: 2062: 2058: 2057: 2056: 2055: 2051: 2047: 2037: 2036: 2033: 2029: 2025: 2013: 2010: 2005: 2000: 1996: 1992: 1990: 1987: 1983: 1979: 1975: 1969: 1966: 1963: 1926: 1922: 1918: 1914: 1913: 1912: 1909: 1905: 1901: 1900: 1899: 1896: 1893: 1859: 1858: 1857: 1856: 1853: 1849: 1832: 1829: 1825: 1821: 1820: 1819: 1815: 1809: 1805: 1801: 1797: 1796: 1795: 1794: 1791: 1788: 1784: 1780: 1776: 1775: 1771: 1767: 1766:computer game 1763: 1759: 1755: 1751: 1750: 1745: 1742: 1737: 1735: 1732: 1728: 1727: 1726: 1723: 1719: 1715: 1710: 1709: 1708: 1707: 1704: 1700: 1696: 1692: 1683: 1680: 1676: 1675: 1674: 1671: 1667: 1663: 1660: 1656: 1652: 1651: 1650: 1649: 1646: 1642: 1638: 1631: 1628: 1627:the talk page 1624: 1623: 1622: 1619: 1617: 1613: 1612:in my sandbox 1609: 1605: 1600: 1588: 1585: 1580: 1579: 1578: 1577: 1574: 1570: 1566: 1563: 1558: 1556: 1552: 1551: 1544: 1540: 1538: 1537:computer game 1534: 1533:home computer 1527: 1524: 1520: 1519: 1509: 1507:Flash game(?) 1506: 1503: 1502: 1500: 1495: 1494: 1492: 1487: 1484: 1483: 1481: 1476: 1473: 1472: 1470: 1465: 1462: 1461: 1460:Console game 1459: 1458: 1456: 1455: 1454: 1453: 1449: 1448: 1444: 1440: 1436: 1432: 1428: 1427: 1424: 1421: 1417: 1413: 1410: 1409:discuss first 1406: 1402: 1398: 1397: 1396: 1395: 1392: 1388: 1384: 1381: 1377: 1373: 1369: 1365: 1361: 1354: 1351: 1347: 1343: 1339: 1338: 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