195:
inadvertent garden-path comprehension mistakes. In some cases where I mishear a word at the beginning of a sentence, by the time I figure out that I've done so, my mental "capture" is so garbled I have to ask for a full repeat. That kind of effect would place heavy constraints on potentially misleading homonyms in a language's core vocabulary. I suspect the model would need to be primarily neurological to add this exclusion force as a constraint to these reconstructions, which is not to suggest the model would be feasible to compute supposed one could specify these constraints. It's unclear what the limit of the technique might be without pursuing many difficult refinements.
378:
304:
454:
141:
Biologists have also learned that trees of any great complexity cannot be drawn up by subjective methods. Mathematical methods are required, like having a computer generate all possible trees -- a number that quickly runs way beyond the trillions -- and then deciding statistically which class of trees is more probable than the rest.
262:
Norse page the map doesn't really have next to any of
Finland highlighted, which I suppose should be attributed to coastal settlements, rather than widespread use. I had heard of a Finnish Medieval epic (the name of which escapes me, perhaps you can help?), which I assume would have been composed in Finnish. Ironically, the
651:
I happen to work at the
Amsterdam linguistics department, so if you need references on FG, I should easily be able to provide you with an electronic version of any article. BTW, I think the reference you were looking for is Hengeveld's "Layered structure of the clause", 1989 I believe. Although that
149:
Many of the Dyen list cognates are marked uncertain, so Dr. Gray was able to test whether omission of the doubtful cognates made any difference (it did not). He also tested many other possible assumptions, but none of them produced an age for proto-Indo-European anywhere near the date of 6,000 years
730:
I think that's a fair compromise. As for fleshing the articles out, I might be able to help a bit in a few weeks as I will be on summer break in two weeks. However, as I am sure you are aware, expectations and reality do not always coincide, and I might get bogged down, but I'll do my best. When
428:
deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with
Knowledge's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that
350:
deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with
Knowledge's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that
266:
page states, "The other Nordic countries, Finland, Iceland and the Faroe
Islands, are sometimes included because of their close historic and cultural connections to Denmark, Norway and Sweden." I generally include Finland, too. When I was at the Vikingeskibsmuseet in Roskilde last March, the tour
261:
Thanks for commenting. I hadn't noticed that the editor had been doing that. Your comment is interesting, as I hadn't thought of such settlements. Typically, from the sagas I have read, Finns are strange, often magical people that others are frightened of. I should also point out that the Old
200:
Having thought about this for a day, my feeling is that this is work that needed to be done, I wouldn't myself get too hung up over the particular tree or timeline predicted by G&A, and I would be more intrigued by their sensitivity analysis than the tree they have reconstructed. As far as I
194:
As we learn more about how the brain processes language, I suspect we'll come up with some functional constraints on the structure of working vocabulary. In
English, if you say "This Thai soup is hot" it leads mostly to confusion. I suspect one of the change forces on vocabulary is to eliminate
188:
I did some work once in statistical NLP. In my view, the
Swadesh lists are a rather crude concept. What you would like to have in an analysis where each root is described by a reliability coefficient (or two, or more, if reliability has multiple dimensions). The discrete notion "on the list" /
68:
That's very interesting to hear. I see your point, about the finnish, but you've got to admit that english is somewaht more mainstream, eh? I have a friend who speaks finnish, and he says that they have 100 % grapho-phonological correlation; that's gotta be swell, especially if you're a foreigner
281:
Most enlightening. Thanks a lot for the message. I will have to read Väinämöinen this summer, when I've got some spare time. My Old Norse teacher told me that he highly recommended it, and it sounds really interesting. I have always wanted to know more about
Finland. I wasn't even very much
182:
Your new revision is a lot more defensible in the context of
Knowledge. What would help now is more precise information about exactly how the 200 word Swadesh was used. The quotes above suggest G&A were well aware of the deficiencies of the list used, but don't believe the results of their
140:
His tree, Dr. Gray said, was derived with the methods used by biologists to avoid problems identical to those in glottochronology. Genes, like languages, do not mutate at a constant rate. And organisms, particularly bacteria, often borrow genes rather than inheriting them from a common ancestor.
602:. FWIW, they're not a badge of shame at all. We've all gone through the learning process and gotten a few friendly pointers along the way. All of your edits appear to be in good faith, so there's nothing to be ashamed about. Good luck and let me know if I can help.
132:
These articles provide a much deeper insight into how G&A handled the cognate sets associated with the 1994 Swadesh lists. I didn't spot much in these criticism making a big deal that language evolution does not conform to discrete, generational inheritance.
162:
In fact, making extra predictions is a strength of the paper, as it permits falsification of the paper if a future consensus is reached (e.g. concerning time and place of Indo-European homelands) in contradiction to the arguments of the paper.
98:
Your recent additions fall into the tone of a personal essay in places, rather than striking an encyclopedic tone. Nor is it clear that the controversy stemming from this paper deserves this much space in an article about
Swadesh lists.
158:
that every possible outcome has already been predicted by one party or another. That makes no logical sense. It just means you can't use the prediction that results to corroborate the success of the model against standing consensus.
267:
guide made it a point to exclude Finland. Is this a result of Danish/Finnish relations (of which I know next to nothing of) or just this particular tour guide? Anyway, thanks for the information, and nice talking with you.
576:
Re-read the section on the abuse page titled "New alerts" and make sure to be careful about section 3, you need to place the abuse report on that actual abuse page with the instructions. If you still need help just let me
106:
166:
Are you up to taking another pass at this, with less prose, more particulars, and more sourced statements? You're probably more qualified that I am to make this contribution, if you adopt a more encyclopedic tone.
430:
352:
69:
learning the language. And by the, don't start a Norwegian on the "strangeness" of the danish language... Hehe, anyways, so the real question seems to be: how did you end up studying in Finland?--
282:
aware of the Saami people, but now I will endeavor to do more reading on the subject. I think it would be a lot of fun to travel to Finland someday. Thanks a ton for your knowledge and help.
107:
http://books.google.ca/books?id=QBFPiT4dUQQC&pg=PA197&lpg=PA197&dq=gray+and+atkinson&source=web&ots=08ZSgRCDs4&sig=IG9ZbCreoSbyXqE8voynwWlvU3w&hl=en#PPA197,M1
667:
Since you are Danish and a linguist, you should have come across Jan Rijkhoff, haven't you? Anyway, he has a book called "The Noun Phrase", where you should find the diagrams you need.
136:
The criticism was far stronger on the problems associated with inconsistent change rates. Biologists seem to think they have tamed this problem; linguists remain unconvinced.
591:
239:"The academic community is really upset," he says. "It sounds terrible. You don't care what features you choose? It flies in the face of many years of research."
392:, because the page appears to have no meaningful content or history, and the text is unsalvageably incoherent. If the page you created was a test, please use the
499:
37:
Hey! Interesting discussions on the proto-scandinavian article. You're danish, right? Where do you study? And how on earth did you end up knowing how to speak
495:
420:
342:
596:
Glad you got it figured out. It looked like you had a couple of conversations going, so I stayed quiet. Feel free to remove these notices, or better yet
613:
289:
491:
484:
414:
385:
371:
336:
297:
676:
369:
364:
310:
Thank you for experimenting with Knowledge. Your test worked, and the page that you created has been or soon will be deleted. Please use
442:
295:
396:
for any other experiments you would like to do. Feel free to leave a message on my talk page if you have any questions about this.
738:
275:
502:. If you're trying to do something else and you need help, leave a note on my talk page and I'll see what I can do.
566:
126:
513:
58:
201:
read of the links above, it appears their disclosure of their sensitivity analysis was limited to a few remarks.
78:
62:
661:
478:
540:{{vandal|AkselGerner}} This user has frequently violated the Knowledge guideline on a particular subject. ~~~~
251:
220:
176:
586:
229:
111:
93:
90:
Your contribution from March 1st has some issues in its form and content relative to Knowledge guidelines.
735:
725:
639:
527:" with the username/IP address, and then write a short reason. Leave the four tildes (~) in the template:
461:
create articles on specific users (particularly IP addresses). If you want to report a user, please do so
315:
286:
272:
256:
699:(several admins and other editors have indicated they believe it so) there's no real reason to debate and
628:
598:
25:
720:
523:
Thanks for your message. In order to report a user, use the following template (replacing the text "
498:
for vandalism, you're doing it the wrong way. I'm guessing you're meaning to report that editor on
121:
116:
102:
I'm not especially qualified to wade into this, but I did do a bit of quick background reading.
732:
518:
283:
268:
582:
483:
399:
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding
360:
321:
If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding
232:
which is an excellent point of comparison on the relative power of sparse vs specific analysis.
672:
657:
692:
83:
46:
8:
635:
562:
474:
438:
112:
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Swadesh_list&diff=195183492&oldid=190570620
94:
http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Swadesh_list&diff=195183492&oldid=190570620
74:
54:
30:
644:
447:
145:
Uncertainty associated with the Swadesh list itself does not seem to be very strong:
608:
578:
508:
418:(just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on
393:
356:
340:(just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on
311:
688:
668:
653:
247:
216:
172:
17:
388:, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Knowledge. This has been done under
700:
404:
326:
206:
127:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=940CE0DE1631F935A25750C0A9629C8B63
630:. I'll come up with those sources shortly that I described before. Take Care.
389:
708:
704:
682:
631:
618:
558:
470:
434:
70:
50:
716:
571:
551:
462:
696:
603:
531:{{vandal|Example user}} concise reason eg vandalised past 4th warning. ~~~~
503:
84:
230:
http://www.wired.com/science/discoveries/news/2008/03/new_face_recognition
624:
263:
243:
212:
168:
31:
377:
318:
if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia
303:
712:
711:, it's allowable. Just my opinion and you're free to ignore it.
469:
for an editor to have a username, and not "illegal" not to do so.
189:"not on the list" is kind of silly for this kind of mathematics.
703:. I find his statements distasteful but as long as there's no
122:
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000210.html
117:
http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/000208.html
453:
424:
explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for
346:
explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for
314:
for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the
592:
Reporting Vandals, removing warnings on your page, etc
500:
Knowledge:Administrator intervention against vandalism
183:
method was especially sensitive to those deficiencies.
494:
a couple of times now. If you're trying to report
429:if the article does get deleted, you can contact
351:if the article does get deleted, you can contact
652:is more on Tense, Aspect, Mood etc, IIRC Cheers
695:'s user and talk page is within the limits of
390:section G1 of the criteria for speedy deletion
207:http://life.lithoguru.com/index.php?itemid=119
627:"History of racist scientific..." paragraph
490:Hi. I've deleted the page you've created,
433:to request that a copy be emailed to you.
355:to request that a copy be emailed to you.
731:do you propose action be taken? Best,
545:Then, place this template below the
13:
376:
302:
14:
749:
452:
623:Thanks Aksel for defending the
687:Please note that wikipedia is
1:
7:
701:is often counter-productive
10:
754:
739:23:52, 23 April 2008 (UTC)
721:14:57, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
677:07:21, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
662:08:18, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
290:00:38, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
276:14:57, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
252:17:43, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
221:05:06, 24 March 2008 (UTC)
177:23:58, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
150:ago favored by linguists.
79:21:03, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
63:23:08, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
26:23:42, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
640:20:24, 4 April 2008 (UTC)
614:22:38, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
587:22:08, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
567:22:07, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
514:22:03, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
479:22:02, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
443:21:57, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
384:A tag has been placed on
365:21:51, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
21:
557:Hope this has helped!
689:not a discussion forum
465:. For note, it's not
381:
307:
241:
152:
143:
535:An example would be:
380:
306:
237:
156:weakness in the study
147:
138:
726:Old Norwegian Merger
693:User:Beleg Strongbow
496:User: 194.83.177.252
257:Old Norse in Finland
154:Finally, it's not a
709:non-neutral editing
457:Just a note to say
431:one of these admins
370:Speedy deletion of
353:one of these admins
296:Speedy deletion of
16:Talk if you want.--
382:
308:
612:
512:
269:Vincent Valentine
65:
49:comment added by
745:
606:
541:
506:
456:
410:
409:
403:
332:
331:
325:
228:Just out today:
44:
753:
752:
748:
747:
746:
744:
743:
742:
728:
685:
647:
621:
594:
574:
547:"User-reported"
539:
521:
519:Reporting Users
488:
450:
407:
401:
400:
375:
329:
323:
322:
301:
259:
88:
35:
12:
11:
5:
751:
727:
724:
684:
681:
680:
679:
650:
646:
643:
620:
617:
593:
590:
579:Torchwood Who?
573:
570:
520:
517:
492:194.83.177.252
487:
485:194.83.177.252
482:
449:
446:
386:194.83.177.252
374:
372:194.83.177.252
368:
357:Torchwood Who?
300:
298:194.83.177.252
294:
293:
292:
258:
255:
236:
235:
234:
233:
210:
209:
203:
202:
197:
196:
191:
190:
185:
184:
130:
129:
124:
119:
114:
109:
87:
82:
34:
29:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
750:
741:
740:
737:
734:
723:
722:
718:
714:
710:
706:
702:
698:
694:
691:; as long as
690:
678:
674:
670:
666:
665:
664:
663:
659:
655:
642:
641:
637:
633:
629:
626:
616:
615:
610:
605:
601:
600:
589:
588:
584:
580:
569:
568:
564:
560:
555:
554:
553:
548:
543:
542:
536:
533:
532:
528:
526:
516:
515:
510:
505:
501:
497:
493:
486:
481:
480:
476:
472:
468:
464:
460:
455:
445:
444:
440:
436:
432:
427:
423:
422:
421:the talk page
417:
416:
406:
397:
395:
391:
387:
379:
373:
367:
366:
362:
358:
354:
349:
345:
344:
343:the talk page
339:
338:
328:
319:
317:
313:
305:
299:
291:
288:
285:
280:
279:
278:
277:
274:
270:
265:
254:
253:
249:
245:
240:
231:
227:
226:
225:
224:
223:
222:
218:
214:
208:
205:
204:
199:
198:
193:
192:
187:
186:
181:
180:
179:
178:
174:
170:
164:
160:
157:
151:
146:
142:
137:
134:
128:
125:
123:
120:
118:
115:
113:
110:
108:
105:
104:
103:
100:
96:
95:
91:
86:
81:
80:
76:
72:
66:
64:
60:
56:
52:
48:
42:
41:
33:
28:
27:
23:
19:
729:
686:
648:
622:
599:archive them
597:
595:
575:
556:
550:
546:
544:
538:
537:
534:
530:
529:
525:Example User
524:
522:
489:
466:
459:please don't
458:
451:
425:
419:
412:
398:
383:
347:
341:
334:
320:
316:welcome page
309:
260:
242:
238:
211:
165:
161:
155:
153:
148:
144:
139:
135:
131:
101:
97:
92:
89:
85:Swadesh list
67:
39:
38:
36:
15:
669:Jasy jatere
654:Jasy jatere
625:Sami people
549:heading on
413:the top of
335:the top of
312:the sandbox
273:talk to me!
264:Scandinavia
45:—Preceding
32:Linguistics
18:AkselGerner
705:soapboxing
448:April 2008
736:Valentine
649:Hi Aksel,
632:Dinkytown
559:Booglamay
552:this page
471:Booglamay
467:essential
435:Booglamay
287:Valentine
71:Alexlykke
51:Alexlykke
645:Dik's FG
415:the page
337:the page
59:contribs
47:unsigned
733:Vincent
604:Toddst1
577:know.--
504:Toddst1
394:sandbox
284:Vincent
40:finnish
683:WP:NOT
619:Thanks
426:speedy
405:hangon
348:speedy
327:hangon
244:MaxEnt
213:MaxEnt
169:MaxEnt
697:WP:UP
572:Abuse
717:talk
673:talk
658:talk
636:talk
609:talk
583:talk
563:talk
509:talk
475:talk
463:here
439:talk
361:talk
248:talk
217:talk
173:talk
75:talk
55:talk
22:talk
713:WLU
707:or
411:to
333:to
43:?
719:)
675:)
660:)
638:)
585:)
565:)
477:)
441:)
408:}}
402:{{
363:)
330:}}
324:{{
271:||
250:)
219:)
175:)
77:)
61:)
57:•
24:)
715:(
671:(
656:(
634:(
611:)
607:(
581:(
561:(
511:)
507:(
473:(
437:(
359:(
246:(
215:(
171:(
73:(
53:(
20:(
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.