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difficult. However, there are templates of several defunct royal families, treated as royal families (which is another issue), which do not have their own websites with information about their preferred styles. Largely, it appears that the traditional formula HRH (or whatever) Princess , Mrs is being used. Have I misunderstood this to be a discrepancy, or is everything alright how it is?
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The
Austrian Imperial Family template shows Male preference, that is the Archdukes are above their sisters and their sons above their daughters. Same goes for the British royal family since it has only recently changed to absolute primogeniture (unfortunately) and the children of HM The queen are are
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My thoughts: Since the de facto creation of the
Hellenic Republic Constantine is no longer commonly referred to in published literature as "the King of Greece"; he is normally referred to as "King Constantine II of Greece". A man can have the title of king without being "the king"; this is somewhat
540:
abdicated as the king of
Sardinia, but he retained the personal style of king; he was no longer "the King of Sardinia", but he remained "King Charles Emmanuel IV". The present situation with Constantine is admittedly not the same since he has never abdicated. But he is no longer recognised (except
1333:
Being referred to as something is one thing, but there is no proof or evidence whatsoever that a former monarch cannot be "the King" if there is only one king. A difference would be Otto (Bavaria) of Greece, since there were two kings of Greece then. But that's it. If we went exactly by what people
266:
A discrepancy that has come up in comparing some of these royalty templates is that whether princesses married to commoners should be called HRH (or whatever) Princess , Mrs , or whether they should be given as HRH (or whatever) Princess , Mrs . For royal families with websites, the decision is not
1678:
So we can discuss this like civilized people, I have opened a discussion section. I think it will be appropriate for
Princess Maria Olympia to be listed first among her parents' children to show she is the eldest. When her brother gets married, Constantine-Alexois, she can go second, but right now
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Tsar Simeon II is fine like King
Constantine as neither of them are sadly the monarch's of their respective countries as unfortunately they are republics. I'm coming of the opinion that The King/Queen should be reserved for reigning monarchs in these RF templates. We will see what the consensus is
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altered the template from "HM King
Constantine II" to "HM The King" (and similar changes for Anne Marie, Pavlos, and Marie-Chantal). I have reverted the change until there has been discussion about it. Constantine is no longer widely recognised as "THE King of Greece" (except by a small number of
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note the title former king of greece, thats what his own website have used. No-one here is denying him the title of King he just isn't THE King of Greece as he was removed as THE King, as i've said before they are allowed to style themselves as King
Constantine and Queen Anne-Marie out of corsty
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Because she is also identified on those pages as Marie
Chantal even if "Crown Princess Pavlos" is used in addition. Here, she is not. Her own name ought to be used to identify her or no name at all. This reeks of the stink made about naming royal peeresses ("oh no, but if you call her that people
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Context. This template is entirely about the Greek Royal Family and absolutely nothing else. We are not replicating a publication, we have a template. Common names are not *always* the best way to go... "Prince
Charles" for the Prince of Wales, "Princess Diana" for Diana Princess of Wales, "Queen
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Indeed. Naming a monarch who has been deposed for almost 40 years now simply "The King" implies to the uninformed reader that he is, actually, "the King". He isn't. He was the King, and he is still courteously called the King of Greece by some, but always with the qualifiction "former" etc or at
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In any case, I followed
Surtsicna's example in listing Princess Alexia in the Danish royal template. But perhaps someone good with the markup could make it work so that on two of the pages where that template appears, Princess Alexia's name appears as edited in the template, namely, HRH Princess
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reigns are represented. However, the fact that a country has a de facto republican government does not mean that it cannot also have a royal family. Surely a national adjective (e.g. Greek) can be applied to things other than those officially sanctioned by the current government. It's POV to
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it doesnt matter if there is one king or a hundred kings, you cannot be THE king of a country that is no longer a monarchy. Offically his title is Former King Constantine II of Greece same as anne-marie she is offically Former Queen Anne-Marie but as corsty he and anne-marie are styled as King
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As far as I'm informed, the former king of Greece has taken a new surname. He now calls himself Constantinos Degrecia (I'm not sure about the spelling), issuing a passport for that purpose. Maybe we should refer to him with that surname since he is just a regular citizen and not the king?
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The only reference to her as Marie-Chantel on the RF's website is in Crown Prince Pavlos' profile which says he married Marie-Chantel Miller but she is referred to as Crown Princess Pavlos elsewhere. Why should this template not list her under what she is called by the RF. -
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What is he then? If he is accorded the title of king at all, he is the king as there is only one. I can understand the use of forenames for consorts and dowagers but not for the man who did reign as the King of Greece. Compare the templates of other deposed royal families.
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item #9 proscribes the use of fair use images in templates. I have modified the template to accept a passed element, such that the template can be invoked with an element referencing the image, rendering the template in the main article it is transcluded to. For example,
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represent the current government as the only determiner of what can be described with the national adjective. There are lots of scholarly works which describe Constantine and his family as the "Greek Royal Family", so it's perfectly appropriate for Knowledge to do so.
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That is definitely not true. The only male who is ahead of his sister is the Archduke Ferdinand Zvonimir, since he is direct heir apparent, which Maria's brothers are not. Everyone else is not look through every branch you can find at least one sister ahead of her
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She is listed as "Crown Princess Pavlos" at the RF's website this is what was decided at the time of her marriage I don't see why the template should use an unofficial style their is no need for template to differ from how the Greek RF styles her. -
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will think she's divorced"). She's seemingly called "Crown Princess Marie-Chantal" more often anyway. Really though, it makes more sense to give everyone's name or none at all for people who are "the" (king, queen, crown prince, crown princess).
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Usage. Constantine is not commonly referred to in contemporary publications as "the King of Greece". He is more commonly referred to as either "King Constantine of Greece" or more likely as "the former King of Greece" or "ex-King Constantine".
747:. Surtsicna is also right, is he isn't HM The King of Greece at all, he should even be "HM" or "King" for that matter. What is the basis for these pedantic requests for exact styling when people rarely do give formal styles? Again, context.
1183:
You are going from one extreme to another to me your basically going if i can't have him as The king then he should be HH Prince constantine, it isn't just up to you. Here is another link this link also links to his offical website
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The official website says how he should/wants to be styled so I agree he should not be listed as The King. I don't see why the template should differ from the listing of members on the RF's website (Crown Princess Pavlos). -
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But we won't put that in the template. If we did that exactly we'd also have to remove the HRH for the children of the Crown Prince and for Princess Theodora and Prince Philippos, who were not born under the monarchy.
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by a very few people) as "the King of Greece". My undoing of Charles' edit was friendly - as he took it. But if it were left, then somebody else would come along and change it, and probably not in a friendly manner.
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says that honorific prefixes should not be used unless they are being discussed ("xxx is entitled to the prefix yyy because of his position"). So, whatever the correct form of address in society, no HM here.
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If you read my previous argument I'm not "The King". Anything else is denying that title by the way the arguments are so they might as well say to demote him to HH Prince Constantine of Denmark at that.
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were referred to we would have "Princess Diana" and probably "Tino Glucksburg" on this article if some people had their way. If he is referred to as "Former King", use that. It's ridiculous, isn't it?
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Noel, if you haven't noticed, having a Greek Royal Family template at all is monarchism. Also, given the sheer number of defunct royal families with templates on Knowledge calling the heads of houses,
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least a clarification that he is not, in fact, a reigning monarch any more. Trying to steer a middle course, I've changed the names to the form "King Constantine II", "Crown Prince Pavlos" etc.
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I would like to see a citation stating that The King's "official title" is Former King Constantine II of Greece. I also suggest you read about definite and indefinite articles. Constantine is
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ordered from eldest sons to the princess royal at the bottom. Even here on the Greek RF template the sons of HM The King are above his daughters, Even though Prince Philipos isn't married.
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reigned in any capacity able to carry those titles as such yet a man who was The (reigning) King of Greece cannot be styled The King of Greece, which is what he was and is, former or not.
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We are not the Greek Royal Family, are we? We don't have to replicate text verbatim especially where it varies and where there are many available forms, none of which are incorrect.
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We have to assume what title she holds now if we are going to include her in the template. Greek princesses by marriage have always been known by their husband's title, from
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If this nonsense sticks I would like the template to read HH Prince Constantine of Denmark and HRH Princess Anne Marie of Denmark. They are the King and the Queen otherwise.
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Please cite a contemporary publication (excepting, of course, those from Greek monarchist organisations) which refers to Constantine as "the King of Greece".
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Where about on the RF's website is Prince Michael's wife referred to as Princess Marina. Why have their daughters been given HRH in the template. -
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when they are all still married she should be first. Take for example the Hapsburg's template. Even the married Archdukes are behind their sisters.
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I feel still that the title of "King" is much like "the Prince of Hanover" or "the Margrave of Meissen"... What is it that makes those men who have
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Alexia, Mrs Morales. Those two pages that are not doing it right are the page of Queen Anne-Marie of Greece, and that of the Danish Royal Family.
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legitimists). It seems to me to be POV to list him in this fashion (even though I personally may have some sympathy with that POV).
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I don't call myself Charles, other people do. We're not going to have him as Simeon Sakskoburggotski on the royal family template.
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If this is about what to put in the Template? Follow the example I've given. PS- Constantine's personal title wouldn't be
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The difference is though, Noel, that there are multiple former presidents of the United States but only
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regarding this issue. Deposed monarchs tend to be referred to as former Kings as opposed to the King -
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King of Greece since there is only one. He is the former King of Greece, etc, but "the" nonetheless.
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The coat of arms has been removed from this template because it has been tagged with a fair use tag.
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Constantine and Queen Anne-Marie of Greece not THE King and The Queen because they rule no country
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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That must be a recent change... because when I had checked it he was behind some of his sisters.
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comparable to President Bill Clinton no longer being "the President of the United States".
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renders as at right. Note that I did not include the coat of arms image to use, which is
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Perhaps they should be I don't think Simeon II calls himself The Tsar of Bulgaria. -
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Besides, even the rarely reliable Google hits are in favour of "Princess Nikolaos".
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Should Constantine be referred to as "HM The King" or as "HM King Constantine II"?
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Knowledge talk:Manual of Style/Biographies#RfC on style in royal family templates
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People, I've noticed the template has been changed; does this mean the other
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A request for comments which may impact this template has been started at
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No, this is not a template describing people taken to be commoners.
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What is the evidence for the styles given to Olga and Alexandra. -
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I hear what you're saying but I don't buy it (and I won't).
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Archduke Georg as well as his son are above his sisters.
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Titular Greek Royal Family, Titular Romanian Royal Family
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if for consistency only. 01:48, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
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1529:As a general Knowledge rule, in Knowledge articles
1431:. PS- This all ties into my argument against using
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1599:Princess Olga, Duchess of Apulia#Dynastic status
1210:the King calls himself "the King of Greece".
1046:King Constantine, former King of the Hellenes
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794:or whatever, we should call Constantine II
1188:just not as the King and Queen of greece.
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184:Knowledge:WikiProject Royalty and Nobility
528:It is perfectly possible for a man to be
187:Template:WikiProject Royalty and Nobility
32:does not require a rating on Knowledge's
1427:when their respective countries are now
244:Princess Katherine of Greece and Denmark
664:and he shouldnt be titled king at all.
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1367:, we don't need this template at all.
1674:Placement of Princess Maria - Olympia
1623:Princess Andrew of Greece and Denmark
160:This template is within the scope of
92:This template is within the scope of
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1659:. You are welcome to comment there.
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538:Charles Emmanuel IV of Sardinia
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371:Princess Alexia, Mrs. Morales
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262:Styles for married princesses
190:Royalty and Nobility articles
178:and see a list of open tasks.
106:and see a list of open tasks.
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1766:NA-importance Greek articles
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40:WikiProjects
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1552:Constantine
957:HM The Tsar
953:HM The King
801:—Preceding
662:His Majesty
1755:Categories
1190:AliaBuhler
995:AliaBuhler
788:The Prince
256:Astorknlam
229:discussion
1739:Prancer16
1711:Prancer16
1681:Prancer16
1435:reigns.
1429:Republics
1369:Surtsicna
666:Surtsicna
1709:brother.
1483:Pel thal
1381:Perhaps
1357:the King
815:contribs
803:unsigned
796:The King
792:The Tsar
658:the king
220:deletion
172:nobility
30:template
1513:Charles
1451:de jure
1437:GoodDay
1433:de jure
1387:GoodDay
1336:Charles
1275:Charles
1235:GoodDay
1216:Charles
1170:Charles
1155:GoodDay
1138:Charles
1084:Charles
1025:Charles
981:Charles
961:GoodDay
897:Charles
861:Charles
749:Charles
654:Charles
625:Charles
572:Charles
517:Charles
242:Should
168:royalty
1625:until
1584:dwc lr
1570:dwc lr
1536:Pol098
1405:dwc lr
1301:dwc lr
1249:dwc lr
1114:dwc lr
1053:dwc lr
955:&
875:dwc lr
845:dwc lr
494:Today
109:Greece
100:Greece
59:Greece
36:scale.
1603:DrKay
568:never
482:Durin
232:was "
28:This
1743:talk
1729:talk
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1661:Fram
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1403:. -
1391:talk
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1253:talk
1239:talk
1212:Here
1208:Here
1194:talk
1159:talk
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999:talk
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951:use
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920:talk
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170:and
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