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would be instrumental in making the article GA instead of B. Also, Yankees76 helped very much in the early stages of Sarnia's article development. It's great to be a part of this team. I feel real pride in our accomplishments, and in the honour we did to Sarnia itself in presenting the best article we could. If you assign it GA status, I hope these team members will join me in the new quest to achieve FA status. If Sarnia winds up B instead, I hope the team continues to work and make it GA on the way to FA!
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make sections smaller (the Name section, specifically), and codifying the
Economy and Infrastructure sections. I remembered you reverted one of my edits because I didn't need sub-sub-sections, and you were right. I combined the sections again under a main heading called "Economy and Infrastructure" with simple subheadings for "Retail and Hospitality," "Transportation," and "Health Care." Since you had pointed me in the direction of
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article and want it to be of the highest standard, I didn't like his insinuation. In any event, I shouldn't have taken it out on you and I erased my comment to you that might have been hasty and snide. I've taken a lot of your comments to heart and have revamped the article, moving things around to
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The "Name" section is important to the city because it's gone through several names, and I quoted passages from Selden's Mare
Clausum to cite a good source showing definitive proof of the history of the name. Another reason the Name section is so long is that another editor suggested that I put the
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The
Griffon entering into Lake Huron by passing Sarnia ushered in the "age of sail" on that lake. The date is significant. The current is also an important part of the history of Sarnia, not only because La Salle had to pull the ship up the current, but also because it affects Great Lakes shipping,
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No data on religion on the page, however. Just added language and ethnicity statistics with citation. Did not break down ethnicity greater than "visible minority" since there are twelve different categories listed, none with more than 800 members. Also, listed aboriginals on their own line because
1834:
Thank you so much, Chip, for recognizing all the work I put in on this article. In your recognition, however, do not forget
Mattximus and Silverchemist. Although they and I had some squabbles, they, as they say, "kept me honest" and improved the article greatly. In fact, their knowledge and ideas
1033:
In the opening paragraph, which should be a short summary of the article, there are such facts as
Lasalle on 24 August 1679 “had horses pull his 45-ton Barque "Le Griffon" up the almost four knot current”. Is the weight of the ship really important to the summary of Sarnia as a city? Or the speed of
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I have read through the article and have noticed not all paragraphs are backed up by references. To achieve GA status they need to be. The article sill be placed on hold and I will re read it again to see if there are any other things that need to be rectified. To other editors - please feel free to
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I suppose so. As the reviewer I have the say of pass or fail but I want to make sure that
Mattximus is OK with the improvements, and will make the status decision after they have replied to your long message. This is because if another editor feels there is a problem I must listen to them, not just
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article to see how they incorporated this data. For example, you wrote the average age was 42 years... well, is this high or low compared to
Ontario/Canada? Some context is vastly better than the list currently on the page. Feel free to copy the structure/text of the Lethbridge (a featured article)
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The article is looking really good and the improvements are excellent. I have an idea of what status I would like to give the article, but will leave any more ideas, until this time tomorrow, If I don't hear anything I will assume there is nothing that can be more improved and will act on anything
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as a model which, because of it's size, is the perfect comparison page. I also think you should stagger the photos a bit. I know I'm contradicting a previous editor, but I think as long as you don't sandwich text between two pictures, you can alternate left/right for a more aesthetically pleasing
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I'm quite sorry if I got bent out of shape when I read your comments. I was still smarting from
Silverchemist's thinly veiled attack on my credibility by saying he had problems with my supposed "facts." The quotes around facts REALLY irked me. Since I've spent nearly 45 hours total on the
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is taking this far too personally. I can appreciate his/her passion for
Knowledge and thinking about an article in a possessive sense (I have fallen into that trap myself at times), but I do object to my comments (see below), being characterized as a "thinly veiled attack" on The Kurgan's
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Sorry about the refs. I usually make sure I get them all. I miss a few occasionally. Also, I don't know how to "Ibid" refs when they are multiples of each other. Could you please run the Refs bot over the article to make sure the refs are all correct/Ibidded correctly?
1653:. What I objected to was the ""'s around facts, like "facts." Had you just said you had a problem with the facts, without the ""'s, I would not have felt insulted. Done and over with. I apologized to Mattximus and now I'll apologize to you. Let's move on and make the
1187:“A year previous to the adoption of the name Port Sarnia, the village was composed of 44 taxpayers, 9 frame houses, 4 log houses, 2 brick dwellings, 2 taverns and 3 stores.” What year was the name adopted? Is it important to know the number of frame houses vs log houses?
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I'm still waiting for some reviews as previously said so sorry for the delay in deciding the articles status. IF I don't get anymore during this or start of next week, I think that the article may have to be rated as B-Class, but let's wait and
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I feel that this article should now be promoted from C-class to B-Class. I have not had time for a formal review, but I summarized my concerns above. The decision (and other recommendations) are, of course, up to the reviewer.
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This is hard. I agree with TheKurgan but agreed with what
Mattximus has said. It would be really appreciated if some other editors can comment here and the on hold will be extended until another editor has shared their views.
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Point taken, Mattximus. When I breathe a little, I will help you get Sudbury to GA status. Lethbridge is a great article, and I will look at it for inspiration on my quest to get Sarnia to FA. Thanks again for all your
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I looked too, I think you should just leave it as is, but it's up to the reviewer to see if this is critical for GA. I think removing it would decrease the quality of the article so eventually sources need to be found.
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All reviewer comments processed, updates done, citations added...with the exception noted above about the Historical Population and the fact that the Canada Census Bureau will charge me for the info! Am exhaling
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Another thing is that the first part if the media section is Unreferenced. Nothing majorly wrong but would be good to see a reference here. Also I'm very pleased with the amount of work that has gone in here!
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I think the article needs a serious copy-edit to achieve GA standards, though I don’t think it requires much more new information to be added. Apart from references (of which there are many instances).
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I would move the whole section on the name in the opening paragraph to the section called "name" and abridge so there is no repetition. Maybe leave a *very* short sentence in the intro paragraph on the
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I've made several changes to the article, moving the Infrastructure section to the Economy heading, and instead of listing specific stores in the retail section, made it generic. Is this acceptable?
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I am delighted to tell you I have passed the article early! Well done to everybody who has managed to help give it this status and thank you to editors eho have contributed on this page! --
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I would list bands from Sarnia and remove the list of bands who have played in Sarnia. Not really relevant to the main Sarnia page as it is already repeated on the "Sarnia Bayfest" page.
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This is maddening. I can get all the Census Information that I want from the Canada Census Bureau prior to 1991. At $ 8.50 per category. That's just not in the budget! What do we do?
890:. I thought it was just my computer but obviously not, please see mine and the administrators discussion on the Sarnia article on this thread. (after Notodden Airport discussion). --
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Finally dug through the archives and found citations for all of the Historical Population numbers except 1841, 1971, and 1981. Will keep looking. Finally got this done! WOO HOO!
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Maybe I'm being dense, here, Chip, but what more could I possibly do to make the article GA? I've done all the required changes, acceded to every recommendation except one (about
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If there is a new message posted on here, it is in my watch list so I can see when a new message has been posted. There is no need to make it 'stand out' as I am informed.--
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here in Sarnia today and snap a picture of the plaque for use in the article. As I said in my response to Mattximus, I feel the article is at least the equal of
301:. Lots of info here, but I would just stick short sentences on religion, ethnic background, and language unless you see something particularly interesting.
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Hi! The TOC seems to be acting up on Opera, with a laptop ratio screen. Is there any way to fix the relationship between the image and the TOC box? --
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1606:, I took the combination idea from that page. I do respectfully disagree that the article is only a B-Class article. It may not be FA status like
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Could not locate supporting references on the historical populations except the census links so I removed them pending finding additional citations.
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credibility. I insinuated nothing about TheKurgan's contributions...I made general comments about the article, as is the purpose of a Talk page.
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I would remove the list of radio/television stations that do *not* originate from Sarnia. The media section would no longer need subdivisions.
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Name material in its own section to keep the lead paragraph short. Before I expanded it, there were no citations and it was incomplete.
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In general, the 750 words for the “name” section is far too much (in my opinion) and is large enough to almost warrant its own page.
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I just merged the parks and museum subsections together under attraction heading, but museum sentence still requires a ref or two.
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page, I've removed all duplicate internal links except those in photo captions in order to conform to the overlinking criterion.
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1614:'s article, which is GA. Thank you, though, for all of the help in keeping me on the right track. I WANT that GA rating!
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I will read thoroughly through your concerns in due course. I have left some opinions under the ones that I have read.--
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The paragraph rework puts the sentence into context. It is a direct quote from the source, so I was loath to change it.
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Not yet done. Worn out now (put in three hours straight, eyes losing focus). Please feel free to do these edits, too!
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I think I have all paragraphs with citations, both external and through internal linking. Let me know if I missed any.
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Worn out right now. Will attend later. If you would like, please feel free to do the edits Mattximus or Chip123456.
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Sorry, Chip. This page is becoming cluttered and I wanted it to stand out to be easily read. I meant nothing else.
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Primarily, there are many sections that have too much trivia. For example (just from a quick scan of the article):
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I've also made some of the changes Mattximus has suggested. After reflection, I thought he had some valid points.
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If possible, there could be an expansion on the neighbourhoods, as long as you can find a decent reference. --
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Note, that my comment was not addressed toy you or anyone in particular, you've all done a fantastic job. --
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Are there other musicians from Sarnia? Might be worth a sentence or two under the arts and culture heading.
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I never asked that you put a Wal-Mart, when I said expansion of shopping I didn't mean every single shop.--
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TheKurgan another thing look at the last paragraph in modern history! See the problem with the ref????--
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Didn't ask you to give every little thing that happened there, only a little bit of an expansion. --
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Yes, thank you to all who helped, especially Mattximus, Silverchemist, and Moxy. FA now or bust!!!
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Have not had time to flesh this out yet. Will do so and add it to the Infrastructure section.
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The grocery stores are part of the infrastructure. The GA reviewer asked me to include them.
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There is enough content to merit GA class, but the writing style has serious deficiencies.
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I removed all mention of various stores by name and made that part of the article generic.
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Congrats, I'll try to help you to FA if time permits (I'm also on a similar quest to get
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I think on expansion on the museum section would be useful and a reference to go with it.
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Or that the city contains a wal-mart and several grocery stores (which are then listed).
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Or that a local museum had a flood that caused it to briefly close some time in 2011?
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I got all excited! But then I looked at 1921 and Sarnia wasn't listed! GRRRRR...
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comment to share your views on the article. the article will be placed ON HOLD.--
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Added the citation. I thought I already had. Must have accidentally erased it.
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Reworked entire Name and History sections. I think you'll like how it came out.
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1553:). I'm actually going to go down to the bridge where there is a plaque about
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Removed the portion of the museum section devoted to the floor and recovery.
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Still says "Canatara is an Indian word that actually means Blue Water"....
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The problem for the above has now been rectified, kindly by administrator
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There are also clarity issues combined with trivialities. For example:
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Any sources for the historical population numbers? See something like
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Image should be moved and others moved or outright removed - As per
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Demographics still needs a bit of work. Please take a look at the
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Whoops! I did it but didn't hit save. DUH! Now it's corrected!
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And I don’t think you need 3 separate measures of median income.
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Agree vastly improved - GA more then warranted at this point.
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article the GA article I know it is. Thank you for the help.
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Further expansion of topics per the request of the reviewer.
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contributed or what is not contributed for improvements. --
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Minor change under attractions: "Indian" is not a language.
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The neighbhourhood section is just a list with no context.
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Demographics section could be expanded. Please check out:
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Sports section needs references to verify reliability. --
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Added clarifying material to the lead section regarding
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Have done a little more with the neighborhoods section.
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demographics section and just plug in Sarnia stuff.
451:Minor change under arts and culture: No mention of
1869:Sarnia officially became a city as of 7 May, also
1410:Changes to Sarnia Article Based on Recommendations
974:. Ottawa: Federal Publications (Queen of Canada).
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963:. Ottawa: Federal Publications (Queen of Canada).
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510:Thank you and yes, I agree with your comments. --
1034:the current? Or the exact day this happened?
524:Some other things which need to be sorted:
299:Stats Can 2006 community profile for Sarnia
748:Some other things to improve the article:
971:Canada Year Book (CYB) annual 2006 - 2010
1974:to GA). Again, I strongly suggest using
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960:Canada Year Book (CYB) annual 1867-1967
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1871:adopting the title "The Imperial City"
1610:yet, but it is certainly the equal of
833:All done Except the Population History
622:Healthcare expansion would be good. --
814:Any more leisure activities on offer
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968:Statistics Canada (2011).
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1792:Bitteschoen!
1778:Merci! --
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453:Kim Mitchell
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117:Article talk
116:
112:
93:
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81:Instructions
1686:Talk:Sarnia
104:visual edit
18:Talk:Sarnia
1976:Lethbridge
1924:Chip123456
1851:Chip123456
1819:Chip123456
1762:MOS:IMAGES
1734:MOS:IMAGES
1608:Lethbridge
1604:Lethbridge
1581:Chip123456
1579:myself. --
1555:Le Griffon
1551:Le Griffon
1534:Chip123456
1513:Le Griffon
1497:Chip123456
1467:Chip123456
1431:Chip123456
1397:Chip123456
1373:Chip123456
1329:One man's
1153:Chip123456
1092:Chip123456
1047:'s voyage.
1045:Le Griffon
910:Chip123456
892:Chip123456
855:Lethbridge
820:Chip123456
736:Chip123456
695:Chip123456
655:Chip123456
624:Chip123456
583:Chip123456
512:Chip123456
237:Lethbridge
168:Chip123456
147:Chip123456
48:Authorship
34:GA toolbox
1999:TheKurgan
1981:Mattximus
1958:TheKurgan
1941:TheKurgan
1900:TheKurgan
1865:One point
1837:TheKurgan
1794:TheKurgan
1766:TheKurgan
1690:TheKurgan
1659:TheKurgan
1629:TheKurgan
1616:TheKurgan
1563:TheKurgan
1518:TheKurgan
1482:TheKurgan
1448:TheKurgan
1416:TheKurgan
1380:TheKurgan
1356:Mattximus
1338:TheKurgan
1309:TheKurgan
1287:TheKurgan
1248:TheKurgan
1224:TheKurgan
1198:TheKurgan
1170:TheKurgan
1136:TheKurgan
1111:TheKurgan
1075:TheKurgan
1050:TheKurgan
1006:TheKurgan
982:TheKurgan
926:TheKurgan
906:Redrose64
860:Mattximus
840:TheKurgan
800:TheKurgan
769:TheKurgan
721:TheKurgan
680:TheKurgan
608:TheKurgan
567:Mattximus
535:TheKurgan
498:Mattximus
465:TheKurgan
433:TheKurgan
397:TheKurgan
367:TheKurgan
337:TheKurgan
308:TheKurgan
279:Mattximus
264:TheKurgan
246:TheKurgan
221:TheKurgan
185:TheKurgan
144:Reviewer:
71:Templates
62:Reviewing
27:GA Review
1979:article.
1463:MOS:BOLD
838:now...:)
783:Shopping
157:contribs
76:Criteria
1918:GA PASS
1780:Zanimum
1717:Zanimum
1335:detail.
924:Thanks!
335:status.
127:history
108:history
94:Article
1655:Sarnia
1599:Sarnia
1532:see.--
1331:trivia
256:(UTC)
1997:help!
205:name.
136:Watch
16:<
2003:talk
1985:talk
1962:talk
1945:talk
1928:talk
1904:talk
1895:Done
1880:talk
1876:Moxy
1855:talk
1841:talk
1823:talk
1798:talk
1784:talk
1770:talk
1757:Done
1742:talk
1738:Moxy
1721:talk
1694:talk
1681:Done
1663:talk
1638:talk
1620:talk
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1079:talk
1054:talk
1010:talk
1001:Done
986:talk
945:talk
941:Moxy
930:talk
914:talk
908:. --
896:talk
888:this
880:Done
864:talk
844:talk
824:talk
804:talk
795:Done
773:talk
764:Done
740:talk
725:talk
716:Done
699:talk
684:talk
676:Done
659:talk
645:Done
628:talk
612:talk
604:Done
587:talk
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554:Done
539:talk
516:talk
502:talk
487:Done
469:talk
437:talk
428:Done
401:talk
393:Done
371:talk
363:Done
341:talk
327:Done
312:talk
283:talk
268:talk
250:talk
225:talk
217:Done
189:talk
172:talk
151:talk
123:edit
100:edit
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