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started with a common base. This fact would allow for a fair bit of merging of these pages. 2. Early history in
Babylon merged into theology, and the standard massaging of facts in court records mean that there are in fact no reliable sources available for this period. The account(s) of Semiramis is a case in point. 3. What is of much more interest than a family tree of deities is a listing of the most influential ones and details of their place in history and in the lives of people. That is an altogether more achievable task, and limits concern of page authors to the main Gods continually mentioned. That would compromise a smaller number than the whole early pantheon. 4. If we accept the comments of Alexander Hislop (his book Two Babylons has a Knowledge page) on Jewish tradition, there may have been conflict or attempts at oppression after Nimrod's (apparently violent) death.That could lead to further confusion. 5. The final structure might be Main Page on Assyrio-Babylonian Ancient Religion, with A. Links to pages on the better known Gods: Bel/Baal; Nebo/Nabu; Tammuz; Astarte/Queen of Heaven: etc. Frankly I feel the genealogy of mythical Gods(i.e.gods who never existed) is low on the list of priorities. B. Other comments on the mythological religious systems.
1167:
seem to have solved that problem for me. Thank you for that. Once again, I would like to invite you to create an account; it is completely free, it is easy, and it is still anonymous, but it makes it easier to keep track of you and tell you are the same person as before, and it would make it easier to ping you on talk pages and thank you for your edits using the "Thank" feature. I will look at the tenses used and see what needs fixing. I have been trying to introduce the deities in present tense, but describe their myths and worship in past tense, since the myths are, obviously, set in the past and I do not presume there is anyone who still worships these deities, or at least not in the same ways they were worshipped four thousand years ago. --
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different practices being prominent in some areas and time periods, but not in others, so we must be careful not to lump everything together. We can still properly distinguish between periods and regions in a single article, but I would need to consider whether or not that would be the best option before we do anything. If we do merge them, we would have to merge them to the article "
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1364:", since it was a unified religious system, even proven by the fact that Sumerian persisted as the holy/religious language throughout much of Mesopotamian history, even when Semitic populations had become the majority (much like Latin remained the holy language throughout the history of the Western Christian civilisation).--
1151:: I am the same anonymous who has followed the development of this article and the article "Anu" over the last weeks. Today, I have added the colours and made little rewording to this article. I noted that there is some inconsistency in tenses (some descriptions are present, some others are past), which should be fixed.--
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even preferable here. I am just trying to give some very basic explanation of each deity. The part about the colors is interesting, but also nonessential; none of my major sources mention anything about the deities' associations with different colors and even the source you cite here only talks about the
1325:
I would completely agree that he is definitely not at all comparable to
Sitchin; that was not a comparison I was even thinking about. I think there is no doubt that Parpola is a real scholar. My point is that his ideas are not very widely accepted and some of them have been extensively criticized for
1192:
to the source. "Silver" and "gold" are technically metals, since all the planets are also associated to a metal (p. 66), and the respective color is not easily reproducible. Yellow is listed in place of gold at p. 58 (and in popular symbolism it is considered the color of gold); green is the color of
1089:
I think that the colors had a relevance in
Mesopotamian religion, given that they were extensively used in architecture and handicraft (though, unfortunately, nothing has survived of the colorful ziggurats of the temples). So, I think that they should be put in the table, although without giving them
1024:
In general, the current table "other major deities" should be further divided into a table for the "primordial chaos/abyss" coming before An, containing Abzu and Nammu (actually two aspects of the same), and a table for the "seven planetary gods" (and this would require the dismemberment of the table
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I do not think I can add the cuneiform because I would need reliable sources to support all of the cuneiform spellings for each and every deity and I do not know of any sources that list them. (WikiSource is not a reliable source.) In any case, I do not think the cuneiform spellings are necessary, or
1062:
I would have preferred to have had a section for the "Seven Gods Who Decree" and none for the seven planetary deities because I would consider the "Seven Gods Who Decree" a far more significant categorization, but, for organizational purposes, I have gone ahead and done as you have suggested. I will
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I will not be changing the title of this article. My plan is to bring this article up to "Featured List" status once I am done with it. I known there is plenty of text in this article, but it is still a list and the text included here is actually required by the FL criteria. Current "Featured Lists"
1166:
Thank you for all your help! I I have not yet had a chance to fully and properly review all your changes, but they seem to be significant improvements, at least for the most part; I might make a few small changes to what you added. I was still trying to figure out how to handle the colors, but you
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has two separate entries for them and I am trying to follow their example. I still maintain that the colors are not significant enough to warrant inclusion here, since they are not discussed in any of my major sources and, indeed, the articles about the deities themselves do not mention associated
788:
I would not rate myself as a 'Near East Expert' but these are very difficult pages. Here's a few ideas that might clear things up. 1. According to the Bible (That is a source acceptable here?) Genesis 10:8-12, the same man, Nimrod, Built
Babylon and Nineveh. That would indicate that the theologies
1378:
I would prefer to keep them separate, at least for now. I may consider possibly merging them after I start working on those articles. Mesopotamian religion is complicated and there are vast disparities depending on the region and era of
Mesopotamia we are talking about, with different deities and
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Regarding the seven gods, I did not mean that the "seven gods who decree" are not attested, but there are also the "seven planetary gods", important enough to have a dedicated table. The problem is that the two "seven gods" categories overlap: Three of the "seven planetary gods" (Inanna/Ninanna,
1016:
Concerning the astral body and colors, as you noted only the major deities (the three and the seven) have clear associations, and there's no need to add them for the minor deities, but they would fit into the table for the heavenly triad and the table for the planetary gods. The colors should be
808:
Due to the fact this made it incredibly hard to figure out where exactly these deities really originated from. Other sources state that deities like Ishmuh came from the
Babylonian Pantheon while this source is stating it is a Akkadian Pantheon god. This is a big problem for a lot of articles on
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The
Semitic names of the deities are already listed in the "Details" columns, right after the Sumerian name. Also, An's Semitic name is Anu and Enlil's Semitic name is Elil. El and Bel are West Semitic deities who were not really worshipped in Mesopotamia and were not routinely syncretized with
1276:.) Nonetheless, I do not think they should be used as the organizing factor for this article, which I intend to be based on accepted, mainstream perspectives. I just want to give a very basic sketch of each deity for the sake of explanation and I do not intend to go at all in depth here.
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fabric of
Mesopotamian religion. It would be undue to give an extensive coverage of Parpola's work in this article, which has a succinct nature (though some definitions of the deities could be added), but surely he deserves to be used as a source in other major articles, including
976:
being associated with those colors. In any case, the colors would only apply to major deities. I do plan on including mention of the (known) astral associations of major deities, but, for the vast majority of the minor deities, the astral associations are either unknown or
1188:: The associations of the former color palette are right; the various identities of colors are discussed throughout the source where the authors pick from their various sources to reconstruct the right order. This is the reason why I suggested to look
759:
I believe this article has good elements of comprehensiveness and accuracy, myself having devoted recent time to reading material on Sumer though I am not expert. I look forward to reading the some good future comments on the background of the list
1279:
The part about Nammu/Mummu is helpful. Thanks for that. I was aware there were other spellings (There pretty much always are.), but I had not heard that "Nammu" was considered outdated. I will have to do more research on this to back this up.
980:
Regarding the "Seven Gods Who Decree", I assure you there is absolutely no confusion here; this categorization is well-attested in numerous sources and is discussed at length by no less an authority than Samuel Noah Kramer, in his book
1512:
on page 130 as "a physical creeping of the flesh". That definition sounds exactly like paresthesia, as far as I can tell. The entry does not say anything at all about "inspiration", although it does reference the
Akkadian word
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Also, there is a confusion between the "seven gods who decree" and the seven planetary gods. I suspect that many authors lumped together some gods in the category without proper research, and that the category of the "seven"
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as "a brilliant, visible glamour which is exuded by gods, heroes, sometimes by kings, and also by temples of great holiness and by gods' symbols and emblems." It states that
Mesopotamian texts describe deities as "wearing"
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Further addition: The article should be renamed simply "Mesopotamian deities/gods". I personally do not like "lists" and this article has evolved from a mere list to an article with substantial text.--
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I also suggest a better division of the table. A first one should be separated and contain only the supreme trinity of An, Enlil and Enki. The second table should contain the seven planetary gods.
1334:. It is still nowhere close to GA status, however, and I am planning on working on more of the articles about particular deities before I try to tackle that one. It still needs a lot more work. --
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I already knew I was missing Anshar and Kishar. I just have not had time to add them yet. I am also missing Tiamat and Abzu from that same category. The article is still a work in progress. --
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Red, white and black the inner-northern sky (Path of Enlil); lapislazuli-blue the middle sky (Path of An); jasper-green the outer-southern sky (Path of Enki).
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keep Ninhursag and Ki as separate entries, because it is still disputed whether or not they should be considered the same. Also, Black & Green's 1992
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colors. Nonetheless, I am not militant on this conviction and, if you really think the colors need to be included, I am willing to incorporate them. --
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Someone should change entry Shu-pa-e here to Shul-pa-e and then also fix the heading of the article Shu-pa-e to which this erroneous entry is directed.
1326:(at least according to his critics) being nothing more than fodder for modern-day Assyrian nationalists. I have not really worked much on the article
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or at least highly controversial. I think his ideas might be worth mentioning briefly in some of the articles. (In fact, I already reference him and
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Regarding Ki, I have no objection to keep it separate from Ninhursag. Besides, in the same category of the primordials you have forgotten to add the
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Thanks for your suggestion. I am already aware of Parpola's work and I find it interesting, but much of what he has written is usually regarded as
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1383:," since simply "Mesopotamian religion" would include all religions that have ever been practiced in the region, including present-day Islam. --
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Regarding the "seven gods who decree", I have no doubt that it is an important categorization. You could mention it in the lede and/or create a
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here. I believe whoever originally set this up did not think about scholars who want to study the pantheons separately for comparison.
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1302:& co.). Parpola has an academic stature and his works are well-acknowledged within the academia. In his works he outlines the
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mentioned since, as different sources testify, there was no ontological distinction between the given god and the associated star.
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is close to what I meant by "inspiration", maybe better describable as "sacred terror", the internal type of "tingling". I think
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would be of great behoof for this article (for the organisation of deities) and for other articles on Mesopotamian religion.
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The mention of the West Semitic names is indeed not necessary, although An was also Dingir in Sumerian, and Ilu in Akkadian.
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1403:", which contains just the table of the genealogy, should be merged into this article "List of Mesopotamian deities".--
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1202:"The battlements of the first circle are white, the second black, the third scarlet, the fourth blue, the fifth orange"
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Mesopotamian deities, or at least not until later times, which would make mentioning them here mostly pointless. --
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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In general you are doing a very good work, and not just on this article. My compliments and keep it up!--
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Further addition: A box for the Semitic name of the given god, for instance An → El, Enlil → Bel, etc.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Note that in recent scholarship "Nammu" is better rendered as "Mummu". See page 191 note 110.--
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undue prominence. You can put them to the right of the "description" box, in the last position.
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1474:) as currently explained in the article or rather the inner shivering given by inspiration?
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for the "seven who decree" ). Besides, Ki should go in the same box as Ninhursag.
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209:-related subjects. Please participate by editing the article, and help us
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Illustrated Dictionary of Gods, Demons and Symbols of Ancient Mesopotamia
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Nanna/Nannar and Utu) are already contained among the "seven who decree".
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Oh wow. I actually had no idea that article even existed. --
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I think it was not needed to combine all religions into one
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https://books.google.com/books?id=lKvMeMorNBEC&pg=PA35
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https://books.google.com/books?id=onRJDwAAQBAJ&pg=PA78
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Consider adding boxes for cuneiform, astral body and color
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Featured lists that have appeared on the main page once
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silver (p. 58, they cite Rawlinson, their main source:
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For the colors of the three skies (An, Enlil, Enki):
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The Sumerians: Their History, Culture, and Character
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1294:I think it is a mistake to classify Parpola as
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989:have just as much text, or sometimes even more.
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1298:(like, to say, the groundless nonsense of
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864:For the seven major seven planetary gods:
847:Here are some of the names of the deities
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698:. If you wish to help, please visit the
1530:. That certainly makes it sound like a
1348:By the way, I think that the articles "
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443:Knowledge:WikiProject Ancient Near East
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811:— Preceding
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140:WikiProjects
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94:May 29, 2018
49:please do so
34:
26:
1555:2.37.140.36
1495:2.37.140.36
1472:formication
1467:paresthesia
1405:2.37.140.36
1270:his brother
1213:2.37.140.36
1153:2.37.140.36
1099:Whole Earth
854:astral body
594:Iraq portal
330:the article
1574:Categories
1477:Regarding
1366:5.94.61.72
1313:5.94.61.72
1251:5.94.61.72
977:ambiguous.
762:Tangled001
704:discussion
36:identified
1532:substance
843:cuneiform
776:Dubsarmah
351:Mythology
325:Mythology
280:Mythology
1487:augustus
920:Anunnaki
813:unsigned
760:entries.
523:inactive
497:inactive
228:Religion
206:Religion
159:Religion
130:FL-class
106:Promoted
1551:puluhtu
1547:puluhtu
1515:puluhtu
1356:" and "
736:on the
643:on the
529:Assyria
492:Assyria
467:on the
378:on the
255:on the
84:Process
1296:fringe
1274:Inanna
1266:fringe
1190:passim
136:scale.
87:Result
1528:melam
1523:melam
1483:augus
1479:melam
1454:melam
1443:melam
858:color
709:Lists
668:Lists
41:lists
29:is a
1559:talk
1540:talk
1534:. --
1499:talk
1491:ojas
1464:the
1456:and
1445:and
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1389:talk
1370:talk
1352:", "
1340:talk
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1255:talk
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1211:).--
1173:talk
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1126:talk
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1097:and
1084:note
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616:Iraq
607:Iraq
563:Iraq
459:High
340:and
338:good
217:and
215:good
81:Date
1493:.--
1311:.--
728:Mid
635:Mid
370:Top
342:1.0
247:Top
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