496:. In the 1880s the Prince and Princess of Wales and the Duke of Clarence were able to walk through Dublin without bodyguards. The Prince of Wales was a regular visitor to Ireland all through that period. Indeed in the mid 1920s, the Princess Royal and her husband holidayed in Ireland, including in the Galway gaeltacht, without any hostility whatsoever. And that was only a couple of years after the War of Independence and the Civil War. When George V visited Ireland in 1911 he drew bigger (nationalist) crowds than assembled at any stage up until Pope John Paul II's visit in 1979. And nationalists marked the visit by selling drawings on the street of Dublin of the King opening the new Home Rule parliament in Grattan's old parliament building. (You can still find those drawings around Dublin.) Oh and by the way, in the 1930s, Dublin sold more poppies in the days leading up to Remembrance Day that Belfast and Liverpool combined! And crowds of 100,000+ used to attend ceremonies for Remembrance Day in College Green, while the Catholic Archbishop of Dublin used to celebrate a High Mass on Remembrance Sunday in the Pro-Cathedral in Dublin. De Valera himself was due to open the gardens in honour of the Irish First World War dead in 1939, but pulled out when the Second World War was due to start lest it compromise Irish Neutrality.
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implies that the question of the Irish famine as genocide is a hypothesis which has considerable weight among professional historians of
Ireland, which it does not. After many years of attending conferences on the Famine (as an Irish historian myself at a major university) I know of no major historians of the Famine who would support the genocidal hypothesis, with perhaps the exception of Christine Kinealy. Of the major recent historians of Famine (by this I mean individuals who have published book-length histories of the Famine, including Donnelly, O'Grada, Gray, Daly, Mokyr, and perhaps Miller) none would support this view; to suggest that this is otherwise is a distortion. If others dispute this statement, please provide a list of corresponding published references (by reputable and institutionally-affiliated academics) where the authors make such a claim. I do agree with the statement that the genocidal hypothesis is one held by many (particularly in the U.S.)-- just not by professional historians of the Famine.
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Famine commissioned by de Valera as a commemoration (delayed for publication until the 1960s), the Irish folklore commission also undertook a major oral history project of Famine memories (often referred to as The Famine Survey) in 1945, consisting of thousands of pages of material, now held in the Irish
Folklore archives at University College Dublin. If one surveys regional papers in Ireland around 1947 (as I have done), you will also find occasional references to famine commemorative masses and ceremonies held around the country. Two of the scholars who have published interesting work on the subject of commemoration of the famine (who have examined the historical record and are not just working off assumptions) are Cormac O'Grada and Christopher Morash.
506:, as you put it, weren't fans of Victoria because she was famously critical of anti-Catholic and anti-Irish attitudes in Britain in the 1880s. She told one senior Tory who had a function delivered a diatribe against "Roman Paddies" - "How dare you insult my Irish subjects. I will not tolerate that sort of disrespect for anyone in my home." (She ordered him to be removed and barred from any events she attended in future.) Some unionists were so critical of her they called her "Mrs O'Brien" and noted the rumours that her actual father was her mother's Irish secretary, Sir John Conroy.
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belittling the Irish and
American historians as simply being stubborn and whining about "modern historians'" research, (although granted I am tired right now so I could have been reading it incorrectly) yet that still doesn't explain how the "many Irish historians" are accusing "Irish historians" of rewriting history...at the very least there needs to be a citation or expansion on who exactly is accusing who, and of what specifically.
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that
Americans are being taken to task and lectured on historical truth and accuracy! It is hardly surprising that the Protestant, Unionist descendants of English colonists would welcome her with shows of patriotism. And why is the Land War not _at all_ mentioned as part of the aftermath of the Famine?
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I believe there are several statements of fact and interpretations appearing in this entry that are, to my mind, questionable and far from neutral, and should be edited. The first is this: 'Many Irish and
American historians, however, still insist that what happened was genocide....' Such a statement
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Weasel-wording: "What is undeniable". Plus I'd like to know how the author of the sentence can give us proof that the
British Government would have acted "far different(ly)" if the famine had occurred in England instead of Ireland. Very likely this is true, but can it be proved? Are there records of
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There were two references for this - both dead links. I removed one, and found the quote on another page on the same site for the second. It doesn't appear to be "many historians" after all - instead it's one librarian. Adjusted accordingly, and moved it further up in the section so that the pro-
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I'm not sure I know enough about this to write it myself (and I am sure I don't have time to research it myself), but it would be good if someone could add a section on the impact of the Famine on the Irish language: native Irish speakers from the west were, I believe, disproportionately more likely
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The article states that Queen
Victoria donated: "£2,000, the equivalent of €70,000" in 21st scentury Irish currency. Where did this figure come from? It seems inaccurate since it is a rule of thumb that applies generally that £1 of the Victorian period is equivalent in spending power to £100 today.
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I would also question the suggestion that 'The horrors of the recent
Holocaust may also have played a role in preventing people from wanting to relive the Famine' -- is it reasonable to suggest that in Ireland of 1945 the full extent of the Holocaust was understood as it is now? I have not yet come
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I similarly think the Seamus
Metress quote should be deleted, as in any case it only represents one side of the revisionist argument (at this stage an exhausted debate which is better and more objectively covered elsewhere). At the very least there is no little irony in the fact that Metress claims
483:
Coming to this through answers.com, it appears that some rosy revisionist assumptions need to be taken on. Broad Irish support for Queen
Victoria? A startling claim, not least when there seems to be some creative sleight of hand going here on as to who is being counted as "the Irish". And to think
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On another subject, the statements appearing about the 100th anniversary of the Famine are incorrect: 'Then, no commemorations were held.' Commemorations were indeed held, though it is true they in no way approached the scale of the 1990s commemorations. In addition to the scholarly volume on the
603:
I changed the confusing statement to "sometimes accusing some other historians" which I understand doesn't flow very well, but I'm not completely sure of what the previous statement was trying to say. Originally, it sounded (in context with what the paragraph before had said as well) as if it was
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It wasn't the "Protestant Unionist descendants of English colonists" who sang the God Save the Queen, it was people like Issac Butt - while Tim Healy wanted a member of the Royal Family made Governor-General in a home rule Ireland in the 1880s (he told a radical British MP who was so surprised he
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revisionists 'present sociopolitical propaganda under the guise of scholarly writing.', when one's own office door at university is plastered with stickers of Bobby Sands, a bumper sticker demanding the return of Northern Ireland to Ireland, and photographs glamourising IRA militants (
769:. If you find this addition an error, Kindly undo the changes and update the inappropriate categories if needed. The bot was instructed to tagg these articles upon consenus from WikiProject Food and drink. You can find the related request for tagging
785:) 21:38, 3 July 2008 (UTC) I find this tagging to be just a tad strange, as the article is talking about the sociopolitical effects of a historical event. But I do not know the system used by WikiProject, within that framework it may be logical.
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Your knowledge of 19th and 20th century Irish history is somewhat flawed, to put it mildly. The reality is a good deal more complex than you seem to know. If you spent some time reading the archives you might just realise the true complexities.
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In the section 'the famine in song' it states that Liverpool fans sing fields of athenry which is not true. They sing fields of Anfield rd which is sung to the tune, but made up of lyrics that have nothing to do with the famine
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Many Irish and American historians, however, still insist that what happened was genocide, sometimes accusing Irish historians, statisticians and researchers who state otherwise of pushing a British point of view, of
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I don't think this is more than hyperbole. During the industrial revolution and with the Royal Navy there could be no "threat". Ireland wasn't producing anything that Britain couldn't buy elsewhere.
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to have died or emigrated because of the famine than English speakers. I'm sure I've seen Irish linguists state the opinion that the Famine was the beginning of the end for the Irish language.
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across a reference to both Famine and the holocaust in any newspaper or text from the 1940s which I have seen, but would welcome any corrections or citations that can be offered.
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which came to the fore following the Great Famine in Ireland, and among exiles in the United States. I think this is something that deserves a section.
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Therefore the ÂŁ2,000 would be roughly equivalent to ÂŁ200,000 in today's pounds and something like 230,000 in Euros.
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Actually, whoever you are (ever think about signing your comment???) until the late 1870s Irish political meetings,
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I've flagged this following sentence as POV. I think it needs rephrasing, feels like "flamebait".
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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reacted in a far different way than they would have if the famine had occurred in
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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Irish political meetings, finished with the singing of
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558:LeoO3
349:Start
330:Death
321:Death
290:Death
1011:talk
797:talk
783:talk
771:here
734:talk
543:talk
539:Angr
516:Fear
941:RfC
911:to
901:to
863:dar
854:Xan
826:dar
817:Xan
777:--
765:or
697:).
452:Low
363:Mid
243:Mid
131:Mid
1025::
1013:)
1002:"
954:.
949:}}
945:{{
799:)
759:}}
753:{{
736:)
657:"
549:)
545:•
1009:(
998:"
986:)
982:(
969:.
962:.
795:(
781:(
732:(
611:♣
599:.
541:(
464:.
375:.
255:.
143:.
42::
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