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Talk:Ice dance

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1827:
would leave the text alone but add a sentence at the end along the lines of: "In the 2018-19 season, the short dance came to be known as the "rhythm dance", but the structure and rules for this competition segment remained essentially the same." The intro will probably also need a sentence at the end saying "In 2018, the short dance (SD) was renamed the rhythm dance (RD); the ice dance competition format therefore now incorporates the two segments RD and FD." The chances are the ISU will change their minds again next season anyway, they seem to be extremely fickle!
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contributions to the sandbox where we work and then others chime in if they disagree. You seem to be the messing-around-in-the-sandbox type, and I'm fine with that. ;) I think that the reasons I got the the dates wrong is that the sources are confused, and I was following them, and then got distracted and didn't check for accuracy. I appreciate the catch; that's why we work collaboratively and in userspace. So please, go ahead and make your changes in the sandbox; if you're uncomfortable with being in my space, we can create another sandbox if you like.
1888:
article on ThoughCo that has a short passage that notes the shorter dance blade but doesn't give the reason. It notes that a longer blade helps landing jumps so is not a good choice for free or pairs skaters (ice dancers jump but not those really big jumps!). If you zoom in on the article picture you can see this ice dance couple using that shorter blade, notice it stops at the boot heel. By contrast, if you zoom in on the picture of Caroline Pere in the article on Single Skating, you'll notice the blade goes way past the heel of her boot.
1849:
I appreciate the copyediting assistance. I assume that you're a figure skater, and I am not, so there needs to be someone like you going behind me and making sure the language is right. I learned a new referencing trick last week; I was going to just let the articles stand, but I'm going to use it, anyway. Then I'll tackle the History section of this article, even though I've been avoiding it for the past half-week. I need more resources to do it justice, but in the meantime, I'll clean up the sources and do a copyedit/re-write.
368: 235: 359: 945: 268: 422: 401: 1190: 1169: 1295: 1650: 510: 1274: 492: 1368: 203: 850: 832: 1200: 860: 1528:, in the interest of accuracy. I know that I'm late to the game, but there have been plenty of other instances where the term for something was changed and we needed to change articles to reflect it. The governing body of the sport of ice dance refers to the sport in that way, so that should be reflected here. Bots can take care of changing the term and making redirects. 1611:===Current competition segments=== (quick intro about how things are today) ====Short dance==== (SD text) ====Free dance==== (FD text) ===Discontinued competition segments=== (quick intro about how things were before the 2011–2012 season: FD was part of the competition, along with...) ====Compulsory dance==== (CD text) ====Original dance==== (OD text) 2017: 1676:
comp. format was taken at ISU Congress 2010 and first implemented in 2010–2011 season (re. Communication No. 1621), but you've said the decision was taken in 2011 and first put into effect in the 2011–2012 season. I've also got a slightly different section structure to suggest, along with quite a lot of wording edits...
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things from the sources well enough. I need to find more experts, either skaters or fans/other editors of figure skating articles, to put their eyes on them and make sure that I'm doing it right. I also anticipate that future reviewers will catch more. But once I get more expert input, FAC is next for this article.
1978:
is very specific in its "Accidents" section, citing specific examples. The problem is see with that is that it can become a trivia list of accidents, and they tend to be contemporary to the writing of the section. If we were to get as specific about costume malfunctions and falls in this article, I
1788:
So the ISU renamed the Short dance to the Rhythm dance, effective this season, 2018-2019. I wanted some advice and/or direction about how to reflect that in the Competition segments section. My understanding is that it's just a re-name, not an entirely new dance like when they changed the CD and OD
1565:
I'd like to suggest that we change the structure of this section to reflect the sport's current practices. What that would mean is that we'd move the CD and OD subsections into the intro part of the section and retain the SD and FD subsections as is. I'll create a version of what I'm thinking in my
2216:
Thanks for the catch, what a silly error. Suggestion to you as a reviewer, though: I've always thought that if it's easier for me as the reviewer to just make the change, I go ahead and make it, especially a silly error like this. Good rule of thumb, for me: If it takes longer to direct the editor
1848:
Hey Rodney, just saw this. Yah, don't the good people at the ISU know we have WP articles to maintain! It makes me wonder; do other sports go through so many rule changes? I think your suggestions are sound; I'll make the changes shortly. I just looked, and added back the missing back ellipses.
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Hi Christine. I've been through your draft. How do you want me to tell you my changes? Is it OK if I edit your sandbox directly? You can always revert anything you don't like if I do it in stages. I may as well tell you now that I'm not sure the dates are right. The decision to change the ice dance
1599:
Hello again. No-one else seems to be interested in any of this, but we can carry on working on it together... I've had a quick look at your draft and it looks like a good idea. The only problem is the way you've structured it, the Compulsory dance and Original dance appear to be subsections of Free
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Thanks again for the review. Glad to hear that it's already close to FAC, since that's my eventual goal for this article. I appreciate the fresh eyes, since one of my struggles with figure skating articles is that I'm not a skater, so I'm not sure if I'm summarizing, paraphrasing, and describing
2593:
Perhaps the wording isn't clear enough. The inference from the sources is that up to 1967, there were two CDs in competition; afterwards, there was only one, and the OD was added. I'll go and tighten up the prose now. Thanks for the question; it always helps to get feedback to help clarify the
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Hi Christine, I swear the ISU keep making these changes just to annoy us and make life difficult! Assuming that the new rhythm dance is the same as the short dance (just a name change), then I would say keep the short dance section the same as it is, but maybe just rename it like you suggested. I
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Hi Rodney, whenever I've collaborated with other editors, I let them take the lead in how they want to proceed with suggestions. I've worked with editors who follow the FAC-method, where they describe the edits they want made and then we discuss them. I've also worked with editors who have made
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It turned out a little different than I was thinking above. As you can see, I also revamped the section and updated it. If there's still no discussion about my changes in another 7 days (21 July 2018), I'll go ahead and publish it, replacing my version with the current one. Thanks, it was fun.
1887:
Hi I'm a skater and trained in ice dance as a kid. There are dance specific figure blades made by the major skate blade companies. They have a shorter heel, which allows for close footwork and intricate ice dance steps, reducing the risk of the blades clashing with each other in such. There's an
1505:
OK I submit to your argument in this case because I suppose this article is more generic. And having had a closer look at it I admit that the term "ice dance" is heavily used throughout in the appropriate context, so that's fine. However, I think the discipline of "ice dance" should be correctly
1604:
the Free dance, which they obviously are not. I can see that you wanted CD and OD to have less significance in the order of things, but making them level 4 headings has automatically made them part of the previous level 3 section above. What I would suggest is creating two new level 3 headings:
1871:
Everyone, I just removed this section because I couldn't find any sources about ice dance equipment (skates). If any of you skaters out there has information about the kind of skates and other equipment ice dancers use, please let us know so we can put the information back in again. Thanks.
1403:
Just to clarify my position/opinion, "Ice dancing" is an informal description of the activity of dancing on ice (granted) but in a more formal sense, the discipline itself is officially termed Ice Dance. I would like to suggest that we reflect this fact by changing the title of the article
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In the late 1990s and early 2000s, ice dance lost much of its integrity as a sport after a series of judging scandals. Teams from North America began to dominate the sport starting in the early 2000s. <<=== You could use a better transition there (unless ice dancing still has no
1960:
So I've gotten really far in the improvement of this article. All that needs to be done is to improve the intro, and then some general improvements. I've removed the lack of references tag, because it's no longer true. I think that we should submit it to GAN and then to FAC.
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Duh, I just saw this before posting on your talk page, Rodney. My weakness on WP has always been the technical aspects of things, so I thank you for your help. Marvelous, I'll go and fix it now, as per your suggestions. Looking forward to further collaborations with you!
2336:
Yah, I think I will. I personally support that rule change (like the ISU's for figure skating!), even though I didn't know about it. I also support the change in ranges for grade of execution scores, even though it's made it confusing for skaters thus far this
1391:
Hello, I have realised that this Knowledge article may be fundamentally flawed because it keeps referring to "ice dance" as "ice dancing", the first example being in the page title itself, not to mention the filename! Just to be sure, I've checked with the
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And I just beat you to it, despite being confused about where we're discussing things. Yikes, sorry about that. No, I'm good with your changes. I'm also good with going ahead and replacing the new content, but I'll wait until your okay. ;)
1893:
Likewise, John Wilson and MK skate companies have dance specific versions of thier blades across their ranges. There may be other technical design differences that tailor a blade to dance or free & pairs skating. I hope this helps.
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They can complete these programs within plus or minus 10 seconds of the required times; if they cannot, judges can deduct points if they finish up to five seconds too early or too late. <<=== are you sure it isn't "more than five
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accordingly and correcting the wording, where necessary, in the page text. Not every mention of the term "ice dancing" would need to be changed, it would depend entirely on the context in which it appeared within the article.
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and I believe that could not easily be changed! I'm also aware that there would be repercussions for pages linking to the article if we were to change its title, but this can easily be bypassed using a redirect if necessary.
2344:
but it was the first time a team from North America won a gold medal at the Olympics, and the first time Europeans had not won a gold medal in the history of ice dance at the Olympics. <<<=== These two clauses seem
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Place the SD section into the Discontinued segments and add a new RD section, stating that the RD and the SD are the same. The problem with that is that the SD isn't a discontinued segment; its name is just different
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Perhaps once this article goes through some vetting and reviews, we'll get some of the answers from outsiders and non-fans. But I thought I'd throw it out here, much like a triple throw done without a mishap. ;)
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Gabriella Papadakis and Guillaume Cizeron hold the highest FD score of 123.47 points, which they achieved at the 2018 Winter Olympics.{{refn|group=note| <<<=== some issue with the ref
1834:
in a couple of places in the text that need sorting out? Also, I hope you don't mind I've been copyediting the OD again after taking a break from it, and I'll move on to the SD next anyway.
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We can change the Short dance segment title to Rhythm dance. The problem with that is the sources all refer to it as the SD, although the required elements are the same with the re-name.
1653:
Done, although I didn't include an intro under the "Discontinued competition segment" section because there's really nothing to add that isn't already there, unless you have suggestions.
2255:
Yes, but I see now how strangely it was worded. Changed to: The teams performed the same pattern around two circuits of the rink, one team after another... The last 2 items also fixed.
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thanks for that info, it's very interesting. Would you mind pointing me to the ThoughtCo article you mention, and provide the URL? We can't really add anything that's not cited; see
1705:
OK, thanks, I don't feel uncomfortable with it, I just wanted to ask your permission first. I hope you don't regret it! I'll do it in stages so you can revert whatever you don't like:
2578:
Compulsory dance segment was (I guess) one of those compulsory dances, until it was removed in 2010. Which is the second that was replaced in 1967? Haven't found it in the article.
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It seems good from my "I only watch ice dancing in the Olympics" perspective. I addressed the points above in the competition elements section, and will pass the review.
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All of my comments are minor. The writing looks solid throughout, and is probably close to ready for an FAC (but I'm not an expert on that). Good job! Placing on hold.
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They can lose five points if they can resume their program three minutes after the interruption begins. <<=== This sentence doesn't quite fit in with the others.
1605:"Current competition segments" and "Discontinued competition segments", with SD & FD at level 4 under the first and CD & OD at level 4 under the second. Thus: 980: 147: 329: 249: 1346: 474: 1979:
can see the same thing happening. On the other hand, it may be a good thing to include examples (with reliable sources like this about the most recent Olympics
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Does this work?: There were calls to suspend the sport for a year to deal with the dispute, which seemed to impact ice dance teams from North America the most.
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to make the change than it would be for me to make the correction myself, I go ahead and make it. Nobody could ever object to copyediting while reviewing! ;)
2444:
Yes, I am, but it can be clearer. Changed to: if they cannot, judges can deduct points for finishing their program up to five seconds too early or too late.
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OK, so I've done that. I hope you're not too horrified with it all. I'll put in a page move request for the Ice dancing page next and see what happens.
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rather than just the leisure activity. I am of course talking about the Olympics! So I am going to suggest the change on the relevant articles there.
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Is this article comprehensive enough? Is there content that needs to added that's currently missing? Do we need additional sections?
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the page of sport in each country from corresponding article in other language Knowledge to English Knowledge which was marked in red.
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Keep the segments as-is, but explain that the SD and the RD are the same. Perhaps we can rename the section "Short/Rhythm dance".
1820: 2027: 1496: 2704: 1400:, one of the four disciplines encompassed by the term "figure skating", i.e. singles (men), singles (women), pairs, ice dance. 809: 1996: 1728:
I wonder why no-one else is interested in this? Maybe they just trust us to get on with it and they're patiently watching...
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won bronze, but it was the first time Europeans had not won a gold medal in the history of ice dance at the Olympics.
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won the gold medal, marking the first time a team from North America won a gold medal at the Olympics, and Americans
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the spin and the combination spin. <<=== specify that a combination spin is just multiple spins in succession
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Plus, it's not very clear. Changed to: They can lose five points if the interruption lasts three or more minutes.
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Always a good thing! I certainly have learned lots myself, especially about ice dance. Thanks for the review.
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Moved the phrase for clarity's sake; it now reads: The European dominance of ice dance was interrupted at the
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The regs are unclear to me, so I had difficulty paraphrasing it. I took the easy way out and just quoted it.
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The structure and rules for the RD. however, remained essentially the same. <<=== typo before however
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This figure skating competition is commonly called "ice dancing" as can be seen by current coverage in the
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topics on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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The original dance (OD) was added to ice dance competitions in 1967, when it became a replacement for
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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defines choreographic elements in Ice dance <<<=== ice should not be capitalized
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in the 2018-19 season, the SD came to be known as the rhythm dance <<=== wrong dash
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was published 60 years ago, which shows that the term "ice dancing" is well established.
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I'm leaning towards keeping the segments as-is. There has been a new article created,
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This is the most important question I have: how specific should we be? For example,
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I have a couple of questions I'd like to throw out there to the general community:
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newly added and existing articles, maybe nominate some good B-class articles for
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As of September 2022, all sources in this article have been archived using the
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https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/how-be-better-and-smarter-figure-skating-fan
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sandbox and provide a link here before I make the changes. Please discuss.
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How are the images? Are they appropriate, and are there others we can add?
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turns to skate the same pattern around two circuits of the rink. (right?)
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all statistics started from zero <<=== all statistics were reset
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dance (as shown up in the contents list) so it looks as if they are
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Done. Didn't know about that, you learn something new everyday. ;)
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I can take a closer look at the content later today. Bye for now.
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section is incorrect and unsourced. Reliable data is required.
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One dead link: How to be a better and smarter figure skating fan
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less than 30 or more seconds early <<== something seems off
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After the 2018-2019 season <<=== wrong dash; just 2018–19
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I guess I'm going to learn something about figure skating.
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
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1997-1998 season <<<=== wrong dash, just 1997–98
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I made these changes. Feel free to take a look at them.
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Category:Knowledge requested images of sports and games
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On the subject of the SD, have you noticed the errant
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termed in articles that refer to it specifically as a
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website and they do indeed refer to the discipline as
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page
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2018-2019 <<<=== wrong dash and just 2018–19
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Hi all, no discussion, but here's the promised link:
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Even so, if you can update or improve it, 253:as one of the best articles produced by the 247:; it (or a previous version of it) has been 2356:in Vancouver, when Canadian ice dance team 981:Requested articles (Estonian sportspeople) 952:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 2645:Knowledge vital articles in Everyday life 969:Requested articles (Association football) 2660:FA-Class vital articles in Everyday life 356: 2157:Switch U.S. to the United States. (see 2715:High-importance Women's sport articles 2670:Top-importance Figure skating articles 2612: 1450:was published this year. According to 1387:This article may be incorrectly titled 1013:(this should-be-major article is in a 810:Category:Dance articles needing images 1711:copyedit Competition segments (intro) 1407:The article is held in a file called 2387:21st-century <<<=== no dash 1409:https://en.wikipedia.org/Ice_dancing 1362: 1300:This article is within the scope of 1211:This article is within the scope of 871:This article is within the scope of 515:This article is within the scope of 449:Knowledge:WikiProject Figure Skating 427:This article is within the scope of 352: 2675:WikiProject Figure Skating articles 2274:published communications by the ISU 1321:Knowledge:WikiProject Women's sport 1132:) sports to be part of this project 1029:to use same font size and spacing. 752:Country Western Dance International 452:Template:WikiProject Figure Skating 386:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 13: 2316:Ha-ha, and another silly error! ;) 1803:Other options anyone can think of. 1324:Template:WikiProject Women's sport 1102:List of world sports championships 14: 2731: 2700:High-importance Olympics articles 2575:one of the two compulsory dances. 977:Requested articles (Motor sports) 2665:FA-Class Figure skating articles 2640:Knowledge level-5 vital articles 2309:such as Mokawks <<=== typo 1648: 1366: 1293: 1272: 1198: 1188: 1167: 943: 858: 848: 830: 575:To improve to Featured standard: 508: 490: 420: 399: 366: 357: 266: 233: 201: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 2710:FA-Class Women's sport articles 2650:FA-Class level-5 vital articles 2571:on original dance page it says 2417:Yeesh, did I really do that? ;) 1478:The Key to Rhythmic Ice Dancing 1341:This article has been rated as 1251:This article has been rated as 469:This article has been rated as 2231:Again, just needed 2 ellipses. 1231:Knowledge:WikiProject Olympics 1: 2705:WikiProject Olympics articles 2562:22:18, 17 November 2018 (UTC) 2540:05:46, 11 November 2018 (UTC) 2517:05:14, 10 November 2018 (UTC) 2296:22:02, 17 November 2018 (UTC) 2114:02:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC) 2099:02:00, 10 November 2018 (UTC) 1997:23:35, 2 September 2018 (UTC) 1948:22:25, 17 November 2018 (UTC) 1914:18:33, 16 November 2018 (UTC) 1520:09:08, 20 February 2018 (UTC) 1497:02:27, 20 February 2018 (UTC) 1468:02:13, 20 February 2018 (UTC) 1444:. A book on the event called 1424:20:03, 19 February 2018 (UTC) 1234:Template:WikiProject Olympics 1225:and see a list of open tasks. 885:and see a list of open tasks. 558:WikiProject Dance To-do list: 533:and see a list of open tasks. 443:and see a list of open tasks. 42:Put new text under old text. 2604:20:03, 25 January 2019 (UTC) 2596:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 2588:19:29, 25 January 2019 (UTC) 2532:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1989:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1940:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1874:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1851:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1813:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1781:Request for advice/direction 1768:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1693:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1655:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1632:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1587:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1568:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1548:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 1530:Christine (Figureskatingfan) 891:Knowledge:WikiProject Sports 7: 2690:WikiProject Sports articles 2620:Knowledge featured articles 1882:02:20, 22 August 2018 (UTC) 1859:22:33, 13 August 2018 (UTC) 1844:23:22, 11 August 2018 (UTC) 1476:A widely cited book called 1033:Sport in the United Kingdom 965:Requested articles (Sports) 894:Template:WikiProject Sports 699:Substubs needing expansion: 690:List of dance personalities 648:Physically integrated dance 539:Knowledge:WikiProject Dance 50:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 10: 2736: 2720:WikiProject Women articles 2695:FA-Class Olympics articles 2680:WikiProject Dance articles 2372:won the silver. Russians 1821:17:31, 8 August 2018 (UTC) 1347:project's importance scale 1257:project's importance scale 542:Template:WikiProject Dance 475:project's importance scale 430:WikiProject Figure Skating 330:Featured article candidate 2146:Done; ha-ha, nice nod to 1956:Update and next questions 1776:17:40, 17 July 2018 (UTC) 1752:17:18, 17 July 2018 (UTC) 1738:07:00, 17 July 2018 (UTC) 1720:copyedit Compulsory dance 1701:02:41, 17 July 2018 (UTC) 1686:22:08, 16 July 2018 (UTC) 1663:18:08, 16 July 2018 (UTC) 1640:16:50, 16 July 2018 (UTC) 1624:09:51, 16 July 2018 (UTC) 1595:03:19, 15 July 2018 (UTC) 1556:18:26, 11 July 2018 (UTC) 1340: 1303:WikiProject Women's sport 1288: 1250: 1183: 905: 843: 772:Post-structuralist ballet 553: 503: 468: 415: 394: 343: 285: 281: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 2685:FA-Class sports articles 1576:22:45, 9 July 2018 (UTC) 1538:21:39, 9 July 2018 (UTC) 604:Choreography on Broadway 275:Today's featured article 2635:FA-Class vital articles 2594:content of an article. 2323:a bunch of U.S. ==: --> 1723:copyedit Original dance 624:List of dance companies 455:Figure skating articles 2410:if both partners fall. 2123:Here are my comments: 1327:Women's sport articles 1061:(currently a sub-stub) 678:To check for copyvios: 616:Indian classical dance 75:avoid personal attacks 2464:Ugh, stupid typos! ;) 2401:Rules and regulations 1305:(and women in sports) 1089:Category:Sports stubs 807:Wanted Pics/Graphics: 717:Canada Dance Festival 373:level-5 vital article 277:on February 12, 2022. 195:Auto-archiving period 100:Neutral point of view 2354:2010 Winter Olympics 2262:Competition elements 2190:Competition segments 1785:Hey Ice dance fans: 1714:copyedit Short dance 1708:(slight restructure) 1561:Competition segments 1214:WikiProject Olympics 1206:Olympic Games portal 1140:requests for comment 1128:: Gather all (major/ 1087:work on articles in 1072:for pages listed in 1011:Sport governing body 792:World Dance Alliance 311:Good article nominee 105:No original research 1717:copyedit Free dance 1076:and sub-categories. 1053:Professional sports 764:German folk dancing 736:Needing references: 596:20th century ballet 255:Knowledge community 2074:Talk:Ice dance/GA1 1832:{{refn|group=note| 874:WikiProject Sports 592:18th century dance 382:content assessment 286:Article milestones 86:dispute resolution 47: 2064: 2063: 1916: 1900:comment added by 1867:Equipment section 1381: 1380: 1361: 1360: 1357: 1356: 1353: 1352: 1267: 1266: 1263: 1262: 1237:Olympics articles 1162: 1161: 1158: 1157: 1154: 1153: 1150: 1149: 825: 824: 821: 820: 817: 816: 760:Dance and society 713:Amir Hossain Babu 580:To nominate as a 518:WikiProject Dance 485: 484: 481: 480: 351: 350: 339: 338: 304:November 17, 2018 226: 225: 66:Assume good faith 43: 2727: 2551: 2548:Figureskatingfan 2528: 2506: 2503:Figureskatingfan 2018:Copyvio detector 2006: 2005: 1929: 1895: 1652: 1494: 1492:Let's discuss it 1465: 1463:Let's discuss it 1370: 1369: 1363: 1329: 1328: 1325: 1322: 1319: 1297: 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