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would leave the text alone but add a sentence at the end along the lines of: "In the 2018-19 season, the short dance came to be known as the "rhythm dance", but the structure and rules for this competition segment remained essentially the same." The intro will probably also need a sentence at the end saying "In 2018, the short dance (SD) was renamed the rhythm dance (RD); the ice dance competition format therefore now incorporates the two segments RD and FD." The chances are the ISU will change their minds again next season anyway, they seem to be extremely fickle!
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contributions to the sandbox where we work and then others chime in if they disagree. You seem to be the messing-around-in-the-sandbox type, and I'm fine with that. ;) I think that the reasons I got the the dates wrong is that the sources are confused, and I was following them, and then got distracted and didn't check for accuracy. I appreciate the catch; that's why we work collaboratively and in userspace. So please, go ahead and make your changes in the sandbox; if you're uncomfortable with being in my space, we can create another sandbox if you like.
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article on ThoughCo that has a short passage that notes the shorter dance blade but doesn't give the reason. It notes that a longer blade helps landing jumps so is not a good choice for free or pairs skaters (ice dancers jump but not those really big jumps!). If you zoom in on the article picture you can see this ice dance couple using that shorter blade, notice it stops at the boot heel. By contrast, if you zoom in on the picture of
Caroline Pere in the article on Single Skating, you'll notice the blade goes way past the heel of her boot.
1849:
I appreciate the copyediting assistance. I assume that you're a figure skater, and I am not, so there needs to be someone like you going behind me and making sure the language is right. I learned a new referencing trick last week; I was going to just let the articles stand, but I'm going to use it, anyway. Then I'll tackle the
History section of this article, even though I've been avoiding it for the past half-week. I need more resources to do it justice, but in the meantime, I'll clean up the sources and do a copyedit/re-write.
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1528:, in the interest of accuracy. I know that I'm late to the game, but there have been plenty of other instances where the term for something was changed and we needed to change articles to reflect it. The governing body of the sport of ice dance refers to the sport in that way, so that should be reflected here. Bots can take care of changing the term and making redirects.
1611:===Current competition segments=== (quick intro about how things are today) ====Short dance==== (SD text) ====Free dance==== (FD text) ===Discontinued competition segments=== (quick intro about how things were before the 2011–2012 season: FD was part of the competition, along with...) ====Compulsory dance==== (CD text) ====Original dance==== (OD text)
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comp. format was taken at ISU Congress 2010 and first implemented in 2010–2011 season (re. Communication No. 1621), but you've said the decision was taken in 2011 and first put into effect in the 2011–2012 season. I've also got a slightly different section structure to suggest, along with quite a lot of wording edits...
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things from the sources well enough. I need to find more experts, either skaters or fans/other editors of figure skating articles, to put their eyes on them and make sure that I'm doing it right. I also anticipate that future reviewers will catch more. But once I get more expert input, FAC is next for this article.
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is very specific in its "Accidents" section, citing specific examples. The problem is see with that is that it can become a trivia list of accidents, and they tend to be contemporary to the writing of the section. If we were to get as specific about costume malfunctions and falls in this article, I
1788:
So the ISU renamed the Short dance to the Rhythm dance, effective this season, 2018-2019. I wanted some advice and/or direction about how to reflect that in the
Competition segments section. My understanding is that it's just a re-name, not an entirely new dance like when they changed the CD and OD
1565:
I'd like to suggest that we change the structure of this section to reflect the sport's current practices. What that would mean is that we'd move the CD and OD subsections into the intro part of the section and retain the SD and FD subsections as is. I'll create a version of what I'm thinking in my
2216:
Thanks for the catch, what a silly error. Suggestion to you as a reviewer, though: I've always thought that if it's easier for me as the reviewer to just make the change, I go ahead and make it, especially a silly error like this. Good rule of thumb, for me: If it takes longer to direct the editor
1848:
Hey Rodney, just saw this. Yah, don't the good people at the ISU know we have WP articles to maintain! It makes me wonder; do other sports go through so many rule changes? I think your suggestions are sound; I'll make the changes shortly. I just looked, and added back the missing back ellipses.
1675:
Hi
Christine. I've been through your draft. How do you want me to tell you my changes? Is it OK if I edit your sandbox directly? You can always revert anything you don't like if I do it in stages. I may as well tell you now that I'm not sure the dates are right. The decision to change the ice dance
1599:
Hello again. No-one else seems to be interested in any of this, but we can carry on working on it together... I've had a quick look at your draft and it looks like a good idea. The only problem is the way you've structured it, the
Compulsory dance and Original dance appear to be subsections of Free
2529:
Thanks again for the review. Glad to hear that it's already close to FAC, since that's my eventual goal for this article. I appreciate the fresh eyes, since one of my struggles with figure skating articles is that I'm not a skater, so I'm not sure if I'm summarizing, paraphrasing, and describing
2593:
Perhaps the wording isn't clear enough. The inference from the sources is that up to 1967, there were two CDs in competition; afterwards, there was only one, and the OD was added. I'll go and tighten up the prose now. Thanks for the question; it always helps to get feedback to help clarify the
1826:
Hi
Christine, I swear the ISU keep making these changes just to annoy us and make life difficult! Assuming that the new rhythm dance is the same as the short dance (just a name change), then I would say keep the short dance section the same as it is, but maybe just rename it like you suggested. I
1690:
Hi Rodney, whenever I've collaborated with other editors, I let them take the lead in how they want to proceed with suggestions. I've worked with editors who follow the FAC-method, where they describe the edits they want made and then we discuss them. I've also worked with editors who have made
1584:
It turned out a little different than I was thinking above. As you can see, I also revamped the section and updated it. If there's still no discussion about my changes in another 7 days (21 July 2018), I'll go ahead and publish it, replacing my version with the current one. Thanks, it was fun.
1887:
Hi I'm a skater and trained in ice dance as a kid. There are dance specific figure blades made by the major skate blade companies. They have a shorter heel, which allows for close footwork and intricate ice dance steps, reducing the risk of the blades clashing with each other in such. There's an
1505:
OK I submit to your argument in this case because I suppose this article is more generic. And having had a closer look at it I admit that the term "ice dance" is heavily used throughout in the appropriate context, so that's fine. However, I think the discipline of "ice dance" should be correctly
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the Free dance, which they obviously are not. I can see that you wanted CD and OD to have less significance in the order of things, but making them level 4 headings has automatically made them part of the previous level 3 section above. What I would suggest is creating two new level 3 headings:
1871:
Everyone, I just removed this section because I couldn't find any sources about ice dance equipment (skates). If any of you skaters out there has information about the kind of skates and other equipment ice dancers use, please let us know so we can put the information back in again. Thanks.
1403:
Just to clarify my position/opinion, "Ice dancing" is an informal description of the activity of dancing on ice (granted) but in a more formal sense, the discipline itself is officially termed Ice Dance. I would like to suggest that we reflect this fact by changing the title of the article
2175:
In the late 1990s and early 2000s, ice dance lost much of its integrity as a sport after a series of judging scandals. Teams from North
America began to dominate the sport starting in the early 2000s. <<=== You could use a better transition there (unless ice dancing still has no
1960:
So I've gotten really far in the improvement of this article. All that needs to be done is to improve the intro, and then some general improvements. I've removed the lack of references tag, because it's no longer true. I think that we should submit it to GAN and then to FAC.
1629:
Duh, I just saw this before posting on your talk page, Rodney. My weakness on WP has always been the technical aspects of things, so I thank you for your help. Marvelous, I'll go and fix it now, as per your suggestions. Looking forward to further collaborations with you!
2336:
Yah, I think I will. I personally support that rule change (like the ISU's for figure skating!), even though I didn't know about it. I also support the change in ranges for grade of execution scores, even though it's made it confusing for skaters thus far this
1391:
Hello, I have realised that this
Knowledge article may be fundamentally flawed because it keeps referring to "ice dance" as "ice dancing", the first example being in the page title itself, not to mention the filename! Just to be sure, I've checked with the
1765:
And I just beat you to it, despite being confused about where we're discussing things. Yikes, sorry about that. No, I'm good with your changes. I'm also good with going ahead and replacing the new content, but I'll wait until your okay. ;)
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Likewise, John Wilson and MK skate companies have dance specific versions of thier blades across their ranges. There may be other technical design differences that tailor a blade to dance or free & pairs skating. I hope this helps.
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They can complete these programs within plus or minus 10 seconds of the required times; if they cannot, judges can deduct points if they finish up to five seconds too early or too late. <<=== are you sure it isn't "more than five
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accordingly and correcting the wording, where necessary, in the page text. Not every mention of the term "ice dancing" would need to be changed, it would depend entirely on the context in which it appeared within the article.
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and I believe that could not easily be changed! I'm also aware that there would be repercussions for pages linking to the article if we were to change its title, but this can easily be bypassed using a redirect if necessary.
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but it was the first time a team from North
America won a gold medal at the Olympics, and the first time Europeans had not won a gold medal in the history of ice dance at the Olympics. <<<=== These two clauses seem
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Place the SD section into the
Discontinued segments and add a new RD section, stating that the RD and the SD are the same. The problem with that is that the SD isn't a discontinued segment; its name is just different
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Perhaps once this article goes through some vetting and reviews, we'll get some of the answers from outsiders and non-fans. But I thought I'd throw it out here, much like a triple throw done without a mishap. ;)
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Gabriella Papadakis and Guillaume Cizeron hold the highest FD score of 123.47 points, which they achieved at the 2018 Winter Olympics.{{refn|group=note| <<<=== some issue with the ref
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in a couple of places in the text that need sorting out? Also, I hope you don't mind I've been copyediting the OD again after taking a break from it, and I'll move on to the SD next anyway.
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We can change the Short dance segment title to Rhythm dance. The problem with that is the sources all refer to it as the SD, although the required elements are the same with the re-name.
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Done, although I didn't include an intro under the "Discontinued competition segment" section because there's really nothing to add that isn't already there, unless you have suggestions.
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Yes, but I see now how strangely it was worded. Changed to: The teams performed the same pattern around two circuits of the rink, one team after another... The last 2 items also fixed.
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thanks for that info, it's very interesting. Would you mind pointing me to the ThoughtCo article you mention, and provide the URL? We can't really add anything that's not cited; see
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OK, thanks, I don't feel uncomfortable with it, I just wanted to ask your permission first. I hope you don't regret it! I'll do it in stages so you can revert whatever you don't like:
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Compulsory dance segment was (I guess) one of those compulsory dances, until it was removed in 2010. Which is the second that was replaced in 1967? Haven't found it in the article.
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It seems good from my "I only watch ice dancing in the Olympics" perspective. I addressed the points above in the competition elements section, and will pass the review.
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All of my comments are minor. The writing looks solid throughout, and is probably close to ready for an FAC (but I'm not an expert on that). Good job! Placing on hold.
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They can lose five points if they can resume their program three minutes after the interruption begins. <<=== This sentence doesn't quite fit in with the others.
1605:"Current competition segments" and "Discontinued competition segments", with SD & FD at level 4 under the first and CD & OD at level 4 under the second. Thus:
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can see the same thing happening. On the other hand, it may be a good thing to include examples (with reliable sources like this about the most recent Olympics
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Does this work?: There were calls to suspend the sport for a year to deal with the dispute, which seemed to impact ice dance teams from North America the most.
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to make the change than it would be for me to make the correction myself, I go ahead and make it. Nobody could ever object to copyediting while reviewing! ;)
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Yes, I am, but it can be clearer. Changed to: if they cannot, judges can deduct points for finishing their program up to five seconds too early or too late.
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OK, so I've done that. I hope you're not too horrified with it all. I'll put in a page move request for the Ice dancing page next and see what happens.
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rather than just the leisure activity. I am of course talking about the Olympics! So I am going to suggest the change on the relevant articles there.
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Keep the segments as-is, but explain that the SD and the RD are the same. Perhaps we can rename the section "Short/Rhythm dance".
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I wonder why no-one else is interested in this? Maybe they just trust us to get on with it and they're patiently watching...
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the spin and the combination spin. <<=== specify that a combination spin is just multiple spins in succession
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Plus, it's not very clear. Changed to: They can lose five points if the interruption lasts three or more minutes.
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Always a good thing! I certainly have learned lots myself, especially about ice dance. Thanks for the review.
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Moved the phrase for clarity's sake; it now reads: The European dominance of ice dance was interrupted at the
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The regs are unclear to me, so I had difficulty paraphrasing it. I took the easy way out and just quoted it.
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The structure and rules for the RD. however, remained essentially the same. <<=== typo before however
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This figure skating competition is commonly called "ice dancing" as can be seen by current coverage in the
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The original dance (OD) was added to ice dance competitions in 1967, when it became a replacement for
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defines choreographic elements in Ice dance <<<=== ice should not be capitalized
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in the 2018-19 season, the SD came to be known as the rhythm dance <<=== wrong dash
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was published 60 years ago, which shows that the term "ice dancing" is well established.
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I'm leaning towards keeping the segments as-is. There has been a new article created,
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This is the most important question I have: how specific should we be? For example,
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I have a couple of questions I'd like to throw out there to the general community:
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As of September 2022, all sources in this article have been archived using the
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https://www.nbcolympics.com/news/how-be-better-and-smarter-figure-skating-fan
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sandbox and provide a link here before I make the changes. Please discuss.
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How are the images? Are they appropriate, and are there others we can add?
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turns to skate the same pattern around two circuits of the rink. (right?)
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dance (as shown up in the contents list) so it looks as if they are
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Done. Didn't know about that, you learn something new everyday. ;)
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I can take a closer look at the content later today. Bye for now.
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section is incorrect and unsourced. Reliable data is required.
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less than 30 or more seconds early <<== something seems off
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After the 2018-2019 season <<=== wrong dash; just 2018–19
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I guess I'm going to learn something about figure skating.
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Featured articles that have appeared on the main page once
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1997-1998 season <<<=== wrong dash, just 1997–98
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I made these changes. Feel free to take a look at them.
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Category:Knowledge requested images of sports and games
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On the subject of the SD, have you noticed the errant
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termed in articles that refer to it specifically as a
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2018-2019 <<<=== wrong dash and just 2018–19
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Hi all, no discussion, but here's the promised link:
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1468:02:13, 20 February 2018 (UTC)
1444:. A book on the event called
1424:20:03, 19 February 2018 (UTC)
1234:Template:WikiProject Olympics
1225:and see a list of open tasks.
885:and see a list of open tasks.
558:WikiProject Dance To-do list:
533:and see a list of open tasks.
443:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
2604:20:03, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
2596:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
2588:19:29, 25 January 2019 (UTC)
2532:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1989:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1940:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1874:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1851:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1813:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1781:Request for advice/direction
1768:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1693:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1655:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1632:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1587:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1568:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1548:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
1530:Christine (Figureskatingfan)
891:Knowledge:WikiProject Sports
7:
2690:WikiProject Sports articles
2620:Knowledge featured articles
1882:02:20, 22 August 2018 (UTC)
1859:22:33, 13 August 2018 (UTC)
1844:23:22, 11 August 2018 (UTC)
1476:A widely cited book called
1033:Sport in the United Kingdom
965:Requested articles (Sports)
894:Template:WikiProject Sports
699:Substubs needing expansion:
690:List of dance personalities
648:Physically integrated dance
539:Knowledge:WikiProject Dance
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
10:
2736:
2720:WikiProject Women articles
2695:FA-Class Olympics articles
2680:WikiProject Dance articles
2372:won the silver. Russians
1821:17:31, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
1347:project's importance scale
1257:project's importance scale
542:Template:WikiProject Dance
475:project's importance scale
430:WikiProject Figure Skating
330:Featured article candidate
2146:Done; ha-ha, nice nod to
1956:Update and next questions
1776:17:40, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
1752:17:18, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
1738:07:00, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
1720:copyedit Compulsory dance
1701:02:41, 17 July 2018 (UTC)
1686:22:08, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
1663:18:08, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
1640:16:50, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
1624:09:51, 16 July 2018 (UTC)
1595:03:19, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
1556:18:26, 11 July 2018 (UTC)
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80:Be welcoming to newcomers
2685:FA-Class sports articles
1576:22:45, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
1538:21:39, 9 July 2018 (UTC)
604:Choreography on Broadway
275:Today's featured article
2635:FA-Class vital articles
2594:content of an article.
2323:a bunch of U.S. ==: -->
1723:copyedit Original dance
624:List of dance companies
455:Figure skating articles
2410:if both partners fall.
2123:Here are my comments:
1327:Women's sport articles
1061:(currently a sub-stub)
678:To check for copyvios:
616:Indian classical dance
75:avoid personal attacks
2464:Ugh, stupid typos! ;)
2401:Rules and regulations
1305:(and women in sports)
1089:Category:Sports stubs
807:Wanted Pics/Graphics:
717:Canada Dance Festival
373:level-5 vital article
277:on February 12, 2022.
195:Auto-archiving period
100:Neutral point of view
2354:2010 Winter Olympics
2262:Competition elements
2190:Competition segments
1785:Hey Ice dance fans:
1714:copyedit Short dance
1708:(slight restructure)
1561:Competition segments
1214:WikiProject Olympics
1206:Olympic Games portal
1140:requests for comment
1128:: Gather all (major/
1087:work on articles in
1072:for pages listed in
1011:Sport governing body
792:World Dance Alliance
311:Good article nominee
105:No original research
1717:copyedit Free dance
1076:and sub-categories.
1053:Professional sports
764:German folk dancing
736:Needing references:
596:20th century ballet
255:Knowledge community
2074:Talk:Ice dance/GA1
1832:{{refn|group=note|
874:WikiProject Sports
592:18th century dance
382:content assessment
286:Article milestones
86:dispute resolution
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2070:transcluded
1447:Ice Dancing
910:To-do list:
780:Salon dance
768:Latin swing
739:Chorus line
725:Flash dance
653:To cleanup:
640:Scotch reel
636:Sasha Waltz
148:free images
31:not a forum
2614:Categories
2362:Scott Moir
2345:redundant.
2337:season. ;)
2023:Authorship
2009:GA toolbox
1932:WP:WHYCITE
1926:CurvyEdges
1902:CurvyEdges
1313:discussion
1125:Categorize
1037:Popularity
745:To create:
710:To destub:
673:To unbias:
628:Meg Stuart
589:To expand:
250:identified
2082:Reviewer:
2046:Templates
2037:Reviewing
2002:GA Review
1398:Ice Dance
1138:: answer
1117:Translate
704:/substubs
692: as per
683:To merge:
644:Set dance
376:is rated
241:Ice dance
88:if needed
71:Be polite
25:Ice dance
21:talk page
2567:Segments
2439:seconds"
2325:US (see
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2051:Criteria
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1898:unsigned
1438:and the
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1219:Olympics
1175:Olympics
1015:shameful
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335:Promoted
199:730 days
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2479:Overall
2394:Got it.
2304:History
2202:Got it.
1602:part of
1526:Support
1345:on the
1255:on the
1130:olympic
1017:state)
1003:Cleanup
924:history
664:Dandiya
473:on the
294:Process
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142:scholar
2494:Fixed.
2327:MOS:US
2159:MOS:US
1486:Cullen
1457:Cullen
1430:Oppose
1096:Update
1047:Expand
1035:- the
988:Assess
888:Sports
838:Sports
600:Bolero
568:WP:FAC
384:scale.
316:Listed
297:Result
126:Google
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1067:Photo
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536:Dance
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498:Dance
365:This
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169:JSTOR
130:books
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162:FENS
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