393:"Geri and Freki are attested in the Poetic Edda; compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources, in the Prose Edda; written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson, and in the poetry of skalds." - When a list is given that includes commas and semicolons, the semicolons are supposed to go between the items in the list while the commas are used to offset the parenthetical information (I'm sure there are several dozen clearer ways to say that, but it's getting late). Anyhow, according the the MLA Handbook, this sentence should be "Geri and Freki are attested in the Poetic Edda, compiled in the 13th century from earlier traditional sources; in the Prose Edda, written in the 13th century by Snorri Sturluson; and in the poetry of skalds."
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made that very leap, and thus we are required to at least report upon it. Now, if we could find some source specifically disavowing this passage as referring to Geri and Freki, then the situation would be very different. But, in absence of such a source, I feel that we should include the passage as an attestation. Hope I don't upset anyone by having done so without getting an 'ok' first. :/ --
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Carole
Patricia Biggam states that the wolves, along with Odin, can "fly through the air".{{cite book|title=Grey in Old English: an interdisciplinary semantic study|page=193|first=Carole Patricia|last=Biggam|url=http://books.google.com/books?lr=&id=WSUdAQAAIAAJ&q=fly+through+the+air|publisher=Runetree Press|date=1998|isbn=1898577056}}</ref: -->
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general association Odin has with wolves. Odin has a similar association with ravens and, similarly, all mentions of Odin and ravens need not refer directly to Odin's raven companions Huginn and Muninn. Both are carrion-eating animals of the battlefield and Odin is, of course, a god closely associated with the battlefield.
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wolves should be seen as Odin's - would be just as hard to substantiate. Indeed, even if "ordinary" wolves are intended here, I think it's fairly obvious that Geri and Freki are being at least alluded to, and the listener would have made that leap intuitively. What's more, several scholars have also
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OK, I am happy that this article meets the GA criteria. If you can find sourcing for the
Glacier name that makes a direct connection with the Norse myth then it might be a candidate for addition, but I would be wary of going too far down the popular culture route. I see no immediate need for major
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The reason for this is because this stanza is not literally referring to Geri and Freki but rather to, as evident to the plot of the poem, wolves on a corpse-strewn battlefield who are feeding on the flesh of the fallen. Employing "Odin's hounds" need not directly refer to Geri and Freki also to a
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Gerl and Freki are most certainly meaning something more than what is attested in the article, per date of 13th of
December. Freki cognates with 'Frekan' of Alvismal, where the dwarf Allvis smiths the name of fire in the six worlds. Frekan is Fire in the world of the Giants. I do not know of Geri,
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to be referencing Odin with hunting dogs found up until very recent times in folklore in
Germanic Europe and then making a jump over to equating them with Geri and Freki, but unfortunately this is not detailed in the snippet viewable to us. In any case, I think it's a bad idea to reference Biggam
1339:
I just finished going over this article from top to bottom, adding any (IMHO) pertinent information, correcting anything needing correction, and making some stylistic changes to the text itself. Refs have been added for all additions, and citations have been provided. I, too, was wondering about
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but find it similar to Geirr, which I believe means sharp, perhaps alluding to the sharpness of the wolf's teeths, for instant, poetically understood: in the world of giants as well, meaning more than sharp. I, as
Norwegian, thus read Geri and Freki as the 'Fiercness and Sharpness' of Odin. --
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Thank you for picking this up. The "bodied forth his might" thing is a quote per
Speigel. If you want to rewrite it in prose (or anyone else), you are welcome to. Rudra and Mars are covered in the last "theories" paragraph. Thank you for your additions, Varoon - I wish I had Orel's handbook!
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The wolves' names have also been used in other areas. In a children's story titled "How Frey Won Gerda, the Giant Maiden, and How He Lost his Magic Sword", based on Norse mythology, Frey needs to speak the "language of the gods" to Geri and Freki in order to pass to the top of Odin's
534:{{cite book|title=Death, war, and sacrifice: studies in ideology and practice|first=Bruce|last=Lincoln|pages=98-99|publisher=University of Chicago Press|date=1991|isbn=0226482006|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=1aVe-YRHs7UC&pg=PA98#v=onepage&q=&f=false}}</ref: -->
453:
Thank you for taking on this review. The reason that this entry is short is because there just isn't much information out there about the duo. What you see in the "attestations" section is—as far as I understand—all there is to say attestation-wise about the wolves. After the
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stanza—and is therefore his theory. This is fine to bring into the article but it must be presented as what it is; Lincoln's theory. On the other hand, even if we were to ignore
Lincoln altogether, I am also open to bringing the stanza into the article by way of Bellows's
556:{{cite book|title=Olympic Mountains: A Climbing Guide |author=Olympic Mountain Rescue|publisher=The Mountaineers Books|edition=4th|date=2006|isbn=089886206X|page=186|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=b77jKkVpgmgC&pg=PA186#v=onepage&q=&f=false}}</ref: -->
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To fulfill the requirement for breadth of coverage, I believe that all of the information and writing about Geri and Freki should be discussed, not just the original source material. Perhaps the other information about go into a "Modern influences" section or be combined
537:{{cite book|title=Myths of the Norsemen: from the eddas and the sagas|first=H. A.|last=Guerber|isbn=0486273482|date=1992|publisher=Courier Dover Publications|page=17|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=mmVS_hy4W_sC&pg=PA17#v=onepage&q=&f=false}}</ref: -->
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Several scholars have added interpretations of the stories of Geri and Freki, although these are not taken from the source material. Bruce
Lincoln interprets the description of the "hounds of Odin" searching battlefields for corpses to refer to Geri and Freki.<ref:
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I also encountered this and I usually handle this sort of thing in a "modern influence" section, but I have yet to come across enough to really warrant it. I think that once there's enough information for such a section then we should certainly add the glacier
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This is not in the source material, very likely invented or maybe culled from some sort of folk practice. If it's a folk practice involving wolves reported by a reputable source, I'm certainly interested, but it sounds pretty suspicious to
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Of these three translations, Larrington and
Bellows offer footnotes for this stanza. Bellows writes: "Vithrir's hounds: wolves; Vithrir is Othin, and his hounds are the wolves Freki and Geri." Larrington, who here glosses Odin's name
548:{{cite book|title=The Children of Odin|first=Padraic|last=Colum|publisher=Forgotten Books|isbn=1605067253|page=38|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=MvXmQUbH9oIC&pg=PT48#v=onepage&q=&f=false}}</ref: -->
396:"He tells Agnarr that Odin feeds Geri and Freki yet he consumes only wine." - The second "he" is unclear. Perhaps dropping it and simply saying "He tells Agnarr that Odin feeds Geri and Freki yet consumes only wine."?
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I agree that it should be concluded. I don't feel that it meets the criteria for breadth of coverage. I am going to recuse myself from this review. If anyone would like to take it over, that would be wonderful.
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isn't available, the small portion that is given states that Odin created them due to his loneliness and need for companionship (I haven't come across this information elsewhere, so I'm not sure if it's
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Second opinion: In response to Gary's question, I believe that some recent writings and theories should be mentioned in the article, provided they're not fringe and from reliable sources of course.
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I am requesting a second opinion regarding whether this article should only include information attested in the original sources, or if more recent writings and theories should be mentioned.
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Of course, it wouldn't need to be as I have it written here, but I thought it might help to see what I'm talking about rather than just having me give a vague description. What do you think?
805:'s points re Lincoln, Biggam and Guerber. If nothing else can be be found then that is how it is. I do believe this reviewe which has been on hold for a long time should be concluded.
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I don't think there's need for that. You don't seem to understand: I am not saying—nor have I said—that the article should include information solely from the original attestations. I
841:. I understand fully when he says the pair are not referenced directly - they're not. But I think the conclusion which must be drawn if Geri and Freki are not intended - namely, that
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whether or not things like the Geri-Freki glacier should be mentioned, but I don't think it's necessary for this article to pass GA review. In all, I think it deserves to be passed.
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Snorri
Sturluson in the Gylfaginning indicates that it is to these wolves that Odin gives his food when in Valhalla, for he has no need of it himself, subsisting solely on mead.
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here until we know what Biggam is saying. For example, if Biggam were to just whimsically say that Geri and Freki can fly without further explanation then we shouldn't add it.
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From what I've seen, the description in Snorri Sturluson's work states that the wolves eat the dead bodies on the battlefield. This also seems like it would help the article.
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I will place this nomination on hold for a week to allow for these concerns to be addressed. I have this page on my watchlist, so any replies can be left here. Best wishes,
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This is a nice, short article. Since they appear to be relatively minor characters, that is understandable. A few things that came up while I was reading the article:
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In the source material it's just food. No more detail is provided. If there's a reputable source with some sort of theory about this, I'm interested in reading it.
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A reasonable use has been made of six authors from the last 100 hundred years, which appears good enough for me, considering the small amount of original sources.
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I've come across a few versions of a story in which Frey needs to speak to Geri and Freki in the language of the gods to get to the top of Odin's watchtower.
550:{{cite web|title=Boutique Non Conforme|url=http://www.geri-freki.com/|publisher=Geri et Freki Diffusion|accessdate=2009-11-25|language=French}}</ref: -->
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Mjöð does not merely mean what is today understood by the name of the beer-like brew. It is also implies the sacred, or cultic medicine. Source is Allvismal
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It looks like you've gone the extra mile in checking up on these references and I appreciate that. Please let me know if there's anything else.
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that refers to wolves as the "hounds of Odin". This does not directly reference Geri and Freki, so I have currently elected to leave it out.
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Currently, the article just states that Odin gives them food. A few sources clarify that this is food that is sacrificed to Odin.
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saying that some of the information you've mentioned above has problems, which I've pointed out in detail above.
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in the Northwestern United States, the Geri Freki Glacier takes its name from the wolves.<ref: -->
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Lincoln seems to be theorizing or implying that it is battlefield bodies that Odin is described as
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The lead mentions an association with Mercury, but this isn't mentioned in the body of the article.
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where these wolves are mentioned, the relevant term is "vĂn" (wine) as opposed to "mjöð" (mead).
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H. A. Guerber writes that the wolves are a sign of good fortune "if met by the way".<ref: -->
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If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the
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458:, maybe one day we'll have material for an 'archaeological record' section. On to the review!
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as simply "Odin", writes: "Odin's hounds: wolves", without mentioning Geri and Freki at all.
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expansion, unless someone discovers new, previously unknown sagas. Passing as GA.
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There is a Geri-Freki Glacier named after the wolves. This seems worth mentioning.
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it says that He drinks nothing but wine, not mead. Anyone know which one is true?
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Guerber makes this claim I don't think we should add it. It's very dubious.
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Some things I came across while seeing if the article could be expanded:
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This is not in the source material - definitely an outright invention.
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This is not in any source material but rather an author's invention.
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The names are also used by a French online art company.<ref: -->
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On hold for seven days (24 January) for above issues to be fixed.
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And Bloodofox: Any time you need Orel, just drop me a note! :) --
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Regarding Bruce Lincoln's comment, let's take a look at how the
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and the story of Suttungs Mead, where it is pretty obvious.
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In all respect to Bloodofox, I have added the section from
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Fixed - For some reason I had Mercury here instead of Mars!
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I took the liberty of changing this. Hope no one minds. --
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What I believe you are referring to is from a poem in the
201:, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the
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The correct word is wine. In the original manuscripts of
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eager for slaughter on the island ran Odin's hounds.
871:has recused himself, I will take over this review.
603:The warriors went to the trysting place of swords,
1418:Mid-importance Norse history and culture articles
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288:A small inconsistency here. In the article about
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211:Knowledge:WikiProject Norse history and culture
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606:which they had appointed at Logafioll.
588:stanza in question (13) is translated:
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915:for criteria)
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863:Pickup review
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611:Frodi's peace
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277:Inconsistency
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55:
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1087:(references)
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968:
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963:Do you mean
962:
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739:
722:
712:
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695:Gylfaginning
694:
690:
675:
585:
487:
483:information.
437:
402:
372:
371:
358:
304:Gylfaginning
303:
294:
287:
282:
280:
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257:
232:
199:project page
193:Kalmar Union
171:
169:
130:WikiProjects
89:
49:
47:
43:please do so
31:
30:
26:
1323::bloodofox:
1298:Jezhotwells
1283:Jezhotwells
873:Jezhotwells
807:Jezhotwells
803::bloodofox:
761::bloodofox:
727::bloodofox:
609:Broken was
510::bloodofox:
488:Poetic Edda
361:transcluded
325:—Preceding
189:Scandinavia
178:WikiProject
1397:Categories
1079:verifiable
969:definitive
965:diminutive
891:nomination
699:GrĂmnismál
434:accurate).
203:discussion
187:, both in
37:under the
1271:Pass/Fail
1151:(focused)
954:Etymology
779:Wizardman
706:footnote.
431:this book
424:This book
415:This book
373:Reviewer:
353:GA Review
195:in 1397.
1024:Theories
617:Vidrir's
523:somehow:
339:contribs
327:unsigned
120:GA-class
51:reassess
1346:Aryaman
1265:Overall
1054:WP:LEAD
998:Aryaman
929:(prose)
849:Aryaman
711:Biggam
691:feeding
676:Vithrir
551:In the
235:on the
74:Process
1351:(talk)
1222:images
1197:stable
1195:It is
1173:policy
1132:It is
1072:It is
1003:(talk)
920:It is
909:review
854:(talk)
308:Cerdic
296:Serdan
126:scale.
96:Listed
77:Result
911:(see
799:WP:RS
713:seems
469:Fixed
466:Fixed
463:Fixed
363:from
182:North
1327:talk
1302:talk
1287:talk
1076:and
1045:Lead
913:here
877:talk
826:talk
811:talk
765:talk
746:talk
731:talk
697:and
572:talk
514:talk
444:talk
380:talk
335:talk
331:Xact
290:Odin
265:talk
261:Xact
176:, a
71:Date
941:MoS
867:As
843:all
723:why
533:-->
500:me.
227:Mid
1399::
1329:)
1304:)
1289:)
1273::
1267::
1250::
1242:b
1236::
1228:a
1205::
1199:.
1181::
1175:.
1153::
1149:b
1143::
1139:a
1136:.
1117::
1113:OR
1109:c
1103::
1095:b
1089::
1085:a
1082:.
1047::
1026::
967:?
956::
945::
937:b
931::
927:a
924:.
907:GA
879:)
828:)
813:)
767:)
757:am
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574:)
516:)
446:)
382:)
341:)
337:•
285:"
267:)
54:it
45:.
1325:(
1300:(
1285:(
1248:)
1234:)
1115:)
1111:(
1101:)
1064:Y
1040:Y
979:Y
943:)
939:(
875:(
824:(
809:(
763:(
744:(
729:(
570:(
512:(
442:(
378:(
333:(
281:"
263:(
239:.
205:.
132::
56:.
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