Talk:Eurovision Song Contest/Archive 3

1186:

won twice). Inclusion of the map is meant to illustrate clearly the facts and the fact is, as we all agree, Germany won twice. I very much admire the work you've put into this article but imagine a journalist having a quick glance at the map and writing an article claiming one win for Germany. We'd all tut tut at their sloppiness, so the map really should be accurate as it's a very instant representation of the facts (the footnote will not be read and is in any case very confusing, talking of 'Germany' and 'Germany as a whole' as if they're two countries). You seem hung up on the map (which is of the territories of Europe as they are now) having to cover the legal territory of Europe as it was four decades ago, which of course it cannot. You also don't seem to understand the legal reality of what 'Germany' is (and has been since the war). As many others in those threads keep pointing out a country called "West Germany" never existed; it was never in the EBU and never entered Eurovision. It's a term used in English-speaking countries and not used in Germany itself (they have always talked about the 'Bundesrepublik'..'federal republic', both then and now). The proper name for the country is the Federal Republic of Germany and it joined Eurovison in 1956 and remains in it to this day, with 'Germany' always on the scoreboard (never 'West Germany'). Its capital changed and its borders changed (in 1957 when Saarland joined it and in 1990 when the eastern regions did the same) but as everyone keeps repeating it's the same country. Or when asked how many times Germany has entered Eurovison do you actually say "35 as West Germnay and 25 as 'Germany'"? The Olympic medals won by the Federal Republic before 1990 aren't separated out from its post reunification tally (and why should they?) so why do that with its Eurovision performances? This defies all common sense. I assume the one win that the map is showing is the win in 2010? Nicole would be very unimpressed to see her win airbrushed off the map. The Germans must find this rather silly as they are in no doubt about what 'Germany' is. After all the German version of this Knowledge article has a map and guess what? It shows Germany with two wins. So are you going to tell them their map is a 'factual lie' too?

11116:

obvious, simple error I will either fix it, or raise it at the GA review, or sometimes tag an image if the problem looks serious, but I don't delve too deeply into the licensing issues. A FA image reviewer might do that. As the images involved in this article are mostly straightforward, there shouldn't be any serious issues, but it would be worth checking them all yourself with a critical eye. Other than a closer attention to fine detail, particularly sentence construction and citation formatting, the main official difference between GA and FA is between "broad coverage" and "comprehensive", though that difference rarely comes up, because these days articles that are well prepared for GA tend to be fairly comprehensive anyway. I've known articles that have passed a decent GA review to go through a FA review with no problems. I've even known articles that have failed a GA review go through a successful FA review with no changes made. And I've known articles that easily passed a GA review be crucified mercilessly at FA. It really does depend entirely on who gets involved. The worse thing that can happen is hardly anyone gets involved and the review gets archived - because of that some FA nominators will notify a variety of people who may be interested in the topic to get involved in the review. You may wish to start collecting a few people who would be interested and willing to comment at a FA review. You may also find a

6894:

unfortunately for me, have less time here. :-( As I see for many years and specifically these last days, that you are very kind and communicative, I'm enthusiast at this chance to express ideas for you. Eventually the Participation table+footnotes was the only big thing I saw you started working on, where I thought of a different direction. Now when I see you fully understand my replacement and presentations intentions for that, and still see otherwise, I'm completely fine of course if you disagree and understand your stand, as well as know that you keep working on this after we discussed different options. For now I just remind the option of footnotes as descriptions within the map image with coloring the countries which I suggested in an earlier comment, as I still really dislike this still relatively big inner-article footnotes (though I didn't draft such example) but... we'll talk when you finish. I will later today go back to post under "Lead" for some smaller ideas which are anyway current stuff you already polish, peanuts stuff - easier to discuss. For "Participation" & everything bigger I may have in regards to amalgamations/rearranging - I will gladly look for when you're ready. Thank you for your clarifications and further encouraging message!

11318:(general politics and prise mention) unlike Ruslana, which was in herself relatively easy as narrow wording, and highlight, since most titles for her include "Leader" and one "Courage" and that's what I wanted to convey the most. I do appreciate pointing out specific circles and protests she was at, but that is still one view and personal preference for a different coverage type. I would have detailed something like that in addition too but was afraid to go overboard per the article size (I also can't see KB, only see bites size). I even drafted pointing the US presidency "courage" award but painfully gave that up and also why I removed other national figures I first posted. Also as I didn't know how/if eventually accepted to add further personas here. If the article size is still fine, also considering the 2 sources added for Ruslana which take further space, I still feel it would benefit readers even if describing in another way for her several global honours, and get both full coverage alongside the current description which only covers activity circles. 8689:

happy you agreed with that. And happy of course to understand better you put the emphasize on locations at the History article, and if you happen to know or come across reasons why this specific cities and hotels/convention places were chosen, even better to enrich there, as well as giving justification to this parallel chapter as extended over there! About "the"-"a", okay no problem; at first I thought you may didn't notice or realized my reasoning for 1st introduction as you referred to definitive one-occurrence. I thought "a" may sound not proper English with just "weird to the ear" crossing my mind. I would still suggest something like "with the exception of one cancelled edition in 2020", but given your further reasoning and what you feel about intriguing the reader, I understand. So I'll wait for next week to describe the other stuff which I see can be removed from here as well as 2 problematic-untrue sourced "facts" + 1 such more on another chapter. Good luck, and have fun, and swift easy work, on the History article this weekend! :-)

10540:"sold". What's more, while I saw some sources you used, very current from 2020/21, the sources I checked on "Best Selling Artists" are also from 2019-2020 for all 4 except Julio (2016). And over there for ABBA, estimations of 100-150 million and compared to your 380 million source. Eventually, all 4 artists are certified for dozens of millions; even Celine with 137.2 million certification, can still therefore count to dozens and not several hundreds. Also, all on that article have estimations between 100 and 200 million, so can be generalized as like, that those four has "dozens of million sales with estimations for at least 100 million.". And then keep describing their achievemnts on 4 different sentences. And even if that wouldn't be a problem now under GA review, maybe it can be a problem for FA as SilkTork pointed it needs a group of editors, and which can even pick on every comma and dot. Anyway this way you condense focus on general huge success, reduce wording, and cover yourself for these 4 artists. 8549:

the first is also understandable from the paragraph and the following paragraph "Summer Season" and then to 1955 contexts. And as in general, I suggest removing info such as hotels, cities; just pointing a country and/or instead of a city to match everything as anyway country relates to broadcaster handling the meeting while city could had been another. Also some vice presidents names and maybe further to few broadcasters presidents, unless they progressed something notable in direct relation to the contest and not just for "Eurovision" and networking. Overall I see value in all paragraphs you extended, but just these kind of details I mentioned to shorten which are within them; as more of non-directly related to understand the contest's creation, especially if you add this info to the "History of the Contest" separate article, these are better there. There's another paragraph with some problematic sourced facts, and details, also not something complicated, but first just this.

7625:

your explanations here, and if I do understand the term correctly - I do however want to take a minute: Generally west Asia and north Africa seem "pan" to me by that the EBU's signal, as a European governing body, reaches them along with its other programmers exchange, and also having European populations or other influences by the continent; Australia's mostly western population which experience the contest since the early 1980s; Cyprus and Armenia as culturally European; and the west tip of Kazakhstan, Turkey and north Caucasus within Georgia and Azerbaijan which is geographically Europe; even when United States joins its as associate EBU member. So the EBU is the "glue" here. So I refer to this, but, if you still see this as tricky and I understand the complication here to define, as well as your knowledge for some of these geographically and culturally Eurasian and Australia, which is indeed quite a world spread especially come the U.S, I can accept "international".

1231:

who has been defending the map. Since 2010 24 people have posted saying the map is wrong and 2, including yourself, have defended it (neither German and one of which later changed their mind and agreed with the majority). There's certainly no need for any arbitration as the community-wide consensus could not clearer: 24 to 1. Currently this article across its German and English versions has 2 maps and they both obviously cannot be correct. So I presume you wish to change the map on the German version of this article? It is rather naughty to claim to be sensitive to the feelings of Germans on this when it's patently obvious from their article what their feelings are: anyone trying to change their map to show one win would certainly soon discover what "would be more offensive to Germans". The EBU repeatedly say 'Germany' won twice. A map that says it won once is simply wrong and that is "changing history" as you call it.

8359:, Thanks, I appreciate the flexibility, for which I shortened your good explanation, also as I actually agree with you when to avoid more prolong references in the lead and alternate repeating ways, though great for chapters and I'm impressed from your overall writing. We are generally on the same page, why I earlier today shortened further to what I thought would most accommodate your approach of "too much too soon" while still show the reader/FA in general reference by pointing relegation. Especially people just want to read a quick summary for different chapters. I shortened stuff which technically seem already clear, like "relegation = reduce the number... and also keeps clearance by the 2000s semis. Overall I like that you re-added clearly about the 1990s for relegations and 2000s for semis, and your phrase of "one evening". And I do think this overall reference will be much better with an FA reviewer as well. 6794:

I based on your project talk page message inviting ideas-feedback already when you opened the draft and also can't know when exactly you initially finish something. Like, I saw you extensively rephrased/added more to "Expansion" chapter, in stages over days, which looks great BTW! And that you shortened those "Participation" footnotes and that you didn't keep working specifically on that - for which I had a different idea, and regardless of your "History" removals plan. So I didn't want causing you keep rephrasing/expanding, then me coming with all these rearranging/editing a-new suggestions. I thought that may upset and cause you redundant efforts, that's why I even hurried to write you today, but now I understand and sorry :) ... So, when you finish first-stage, can you open a section here for specific/general feedback? I'll of course then be happy to keep try help. :-)

1847:

divided. Would this work, or would it cause more confusion? Well, if I am repeating, then it is clear there is an issue in regards to how the map of Germany looked in 1982 and present day - a huge flipping difference. Have we forgotten about the Berlin wall already, which divided Germany into Federal and Democratic? That was law too. Germany was seen as being a divided nation in 1982. Are we just going ignore that factual law? I doubt the citizens who lived in the German Democratic Republic, would want to be classified as being part of the Federal Republic of Germany, when FR Germany won in 1982. We need to respect them too. And you never answered my question either IP91, when I asked if you would consider pushing for a reform in how Project Eurovision operates - as we'd ultimately be able to lay to rest a lot of issues like this current too in its process.

10595:

compared to other nationalities like 60%), with 1-2 names for each of the other nations. And these two criteria still prevent more clogging in the future as there aren't many participants with such achievements. Also for the next years most singers are young and new discoveries, also most composers and writers. I still didn't check for Alla Pugacheva exact achievements, and for Annie Schmidt found just few and difficult sources spreading her above info, also for Goran Bregovitch I didn't check. But wanted to comment already. And apologies to both of you that it took me 2 days, even now it took me time to complete this comment, after preparing most of it before implementing Nana Mouskouri. So that's it for this, and sorry if I held back some works and the review, I know you both want to progress with this, and thank you for your patience.

11153:

lead last, as the lead generally changes as work is being done during a GA review, but I just glanced at it, and it's looking good. The remaining area was broad coverage, and the Notable competing artists and songs section appears to have dealt with that quite nicely. I'll take a closer look later. Not sure about the title though - "competing" would already be implied, though I can see that the intention is to differentiate with those performers and songs that won. Hmm. Perhaps the parent section could be named "Winners and notable participants". The trophy sub-section is named Trophy presentation, though is as much about the trophy as the presentation, so that name could just be "Trophy". Hmm. Unless the trophy is particularly noteworthy, perhaps the two paragraphs could sit in the Winners section without a sub-heading?

8617:

be understand. Also some presidents happening to be managers at the time and working on advancements for the network in the pre-contest era. Unlike Marcel Bezencon working directly for the contest development (even an award named after him within it), for example. And, broadcasters' full titles. The reader here won't be bothered by not knowing those, as long as he understand the meetings managements and purpose for the sake of the network then leading to the contest creation. But I feel he can otherwise get bit distracted especially in this article covering much varied material. This info will be still noticeably shorter, as you say "streamlined", but I also mean I feel the above is insignificant here anyway, non ad-hock for the contest history and progress. And the hat-note refers already to the "History" article.

7710:

insertion of the networks that I know has something problematic. Actually one of the other things I still wanted to keep talking about in few days was the pointing of singers/songs for the lead-highest scores achievements, but I see you now present it too as just the country-year-entry, linked, which I really think it's the best! The 2020 edition phrase was even what I already saw at 1st paragraph, just wrong place and inappropriate brackets for me :). It really looks great at the 2nd paragraph opening, the way you put it after "since 1956". I also noticed you removed Australia joining in 2015 from the lead. It also bothers me in the current lead. Thanks for that too, you save me the trouble discussing that haha... and thanks for all your ongoing work these past 2 days!

1317: 11385:

be mentioned in the lead, and I became aware that there is only two mentions in the article of the opening act - one of those is in passing in talking about the logo, and the other is in a caption. While looking for mentions of the opening act I note that the opening theme is mentioned. And then I realised - silly this - but we don't seem to have a clear outline of the structure of the show: Opening theme, opening act, presentation of songs, interval act, voting, presentation of trophy, etc. So, I think there needs somewhere in the article (Format?) to be a brief outline of the structure of the final. There is also a tricky editing problem now of adding to the lead without bloating it. Some copy editing could be done on the lead to tighten it up.

8591:

I think keeping info on the meeting sites, i.e. the hotels, is quite important. I understand the need to streamline but I think giving the whole information on where these decisions were made in the early days of the contest is the sort of thing as an encyclopaedia should be included. However I'm sure a lot of this will transfer over, which is why I've not been touching this section too much. Finding the time between work and life to develop that article has been a bit more difficult over the past few weeks but I'm hoping to get some time this weekend to work on the History article. I do appreciate you holding back on editing this section for the time being and I'm sure that following this weekend your comments will be invaluable! :)

8413:"History"-"Format"-"Participation"-"Expansion" lead-info we added. Broadcasting and viewing alongside and after best selling artists+songs gives it one more highlight as you like by finishing the lead, which also serves the lead's highest note finish of overall viewing prestige alongside best sales. Annual editions articles leads also finish with this, according to chapters order. Talking about other countries at the end, also why I see the broadcast as an extra, bonus. Also and mostly, technically in this article, corresponds to the last chapters dealing with overall broadcast and viewers critiques and public perceptions. And I also think in general the lead should be in same chapters order as well think, that FA includes that. 10298:, etc, and they are not mentioned. It's a tricky area, but as the acts I mention were for UK entrants, and I'm from the UK, I can recall the level of interest that was stirred at the time, and is still mentioned, by those acts performing in Eurovision - particularly as - apart from Lulu, none of them won! I think this is an awkward one, as the article could get clogged with "famous acts who performed at Eurovision" for little value, and there would need to be a value judgement made as to who qualifies as "famous". But perhaps a sentence such as "As well as being responsible for launching the international careers of acts such as Abba, Celine Dion and Julio Iglesias, acts who already had international careers, such as 1640:? I can see why people state Germany won twice. But what people are arguing over is the map, and want to highlight the landmass of Germany in present day as having 2 wins. Doing so is incorrect. The land borders of FR Germany in 1982 and 2010 are completely different. And that is why both are highlighted on the winners map. There is the Germany as it looked during their 1982 win, and Germany as it looked in their 2010 win. On the table it still shows 2 wins, but on the map it shows 1 + 1 win, which if I am not mistaken equals 2. There is also the footnote which provides an explanation about it all. This debate has gone on for years, and has clearly not gone anywhere either. Perhaps we need to get some sort of 7479:

definition? Also by that, to avoid repeating "EBU" later at the 1st paragraph? In Hebrew it's easier to even mention the networks before EBU, as on "its behalf"/"under EBU as to finish the definition with the overall EBU organization. This is how I at least shaped the definition on the Hebrew Knowledge for example, also on the individual events articles. So maybe something like "transmitted to national broadcasters via the Eurovision and Euroradio networks on behalf of/under the European Broadcasting Union"? Or a better description you may have? If not, I understand, and by your response I can anyway be happy to see and learn further from you about this in case you can accurate me or have other ideas. :-)

8113:" term, but unlike with Portugal which I understood, I wanna show clearer separate-sentence additions. Mostly 4th paragraph, anyway starts with "Performing at the Eurovision Song Contest" then repeats "the contest" twice. There's no need. For 3rd paragraph, passes better now, as first time & encapsulating both Germany+Ireland; thanks for removing "in the contest's history". Still don't think it's necessary here, but mostly 4th paragraph already introducing "at the contest". I'm sure it won't stand in the way of passing "FA" and maybe the reviewer will even like it won't care. Just wanted to get to the bottom, and make a draft edit so you see how it looks. Now I'll be okay with whatever you choose. 8663:

anything I think putting it down as "the" also helps facilitate intrigue with the reader, raising questions such as "why was it cancelled?", "what happened in 2020?" which I don't think you get when you use "a". There is also a slight point to be made as well that, for me personally, "a cancelled 2020 edition" doesn't hit the ear right for me compared to "the cancelled 2020 edition", potentially because, in my mind, adding in the year makes it a more definite concept that just "a/one cancelled event" or something similar which is less defined; I wouldn't recommend removing the year from this in any case, given how recent it is and also for notability reasons. I'm not sure if this is just down to

7406:

your points re: recentism, it is definitely a point of contention for me too, which is why I've removed references to 2020 from the lead and will take out the 2019 winner as well. Fundamentally this article should be written with a view that anyone could look at it at any point in the future and (barring any more significant rule changes) it should still be consistently relevant to that time period. Of course facts are going to become out of date, with rule changes and new records, but that entry on recent winner will change every year so it's highly subject to change. You also made a good point regarding parentheses (or as I call them, brackets, see

6219:

easily identifiable voices and the people who did announce the scores are most certainly neither of them. Burnet is an equally unlikely candidate as he was not working in broadcasting at all at the time of the 1965 contest and never worked for the BBC during the 1960's even when he was involved in TV and although it's harder to be certain, the voice does not sound like his. Apart from anything, Burnet had a broad Scottish accent. Since there are no references or sources provided for any of these names, it would not be inappropriate to remove them, pending someone finding an accurate source that they were in fact involved with the respective contests.

11322:

still obvious to where they link (not misleading or ambiguous as I gather from "Easter Egg" manual). This way the reader focuses on the meaning. Trying to look as a reader and at the current linking, it otherwise introduces unfamiliar names or at least their meaning potential (especially the Ukrainian parliament) and requires to hover or click to their articles to understand what it is, then keep the reading here. Maybe I'm wrong per manual, and at this chance ask if this is also still considered "Easter Egg" or if there's a rule to use direct links in this cases. If there's no problem with this, I prefer the adjectives links which I contributed.

10587:, and also Austrian academy award, and was translated to several languages, even Japanese, so her books are global; all that besides being studied in schools and an icon in Netherlands, and considered the greatest Dutch writer of the whole 20th century. And how cool is it that she wrote (not composed, just wrote) the first ever song to perform on the Eurovision stage (also relating specifically to her literate skills), which I believe is a further point and interest to mention here in the Eurovision context. Also, as another female compared to all male-composers listed (also those who wrote 2 winning entries are all males). 520:

population from Hungary. Clemanceu redistributed that to neighbouring countries of Serbia-Yugoslavia, Romania, Czech-Slovakia and USSR. In those countries the populace is still taught to hate Hungary in schools, due to the logic of "a thief can't rest while the owner is still alive". Hungary retaliated by a massive forgery campaign against the french paper franc in 1925, thus the french also hate Hungary.) Germany also doesn't vote for Hungary, because Hungary was the last remaining vassal of the Third Reich, its riverine gunboats fought until May 8th 13:00z and the germans are ashamed of that period in their history.

7455:, thank you for your quick reply! And for containing my thoughts, for already keeping eagerly working, even accepting a lot of my views on the draft itself! I think the lead looks much better and very good already. I thought yesterday when I came to contact you, that you did a terrific job, per your idea to mention those four worldwide established artists which I noticed for now (still didn't see other stuff you may have changed or added yesterday before we talked). And while on the other hand, most of my views for improvement, if not all, addressed stuff that existed in the lead before you worked on it anyway. 11491: 9623:

guideline that images should either be all on the right, or alternating right and left. These days a staggered presentation is allowed, though the preference is still that images should be on the right. I'm not seeing a justification for the image of The Serbian delegation to be forced to the left. And if Logan is placed on the left because he's looking to the right, then so should be Sitnik and Dana. Better to be consistent and neater and have everyone on the right. The 2016 grand final image, because of it's size and proportion, might be better placed in a wide image template: example:

8106:... The move of active and associate members to is precisely what I wanted to bring after discussing the 3rd-4th paragraph; you dramatically progressed me now too with my more layered planned offers for the opening info, also rearranging some material according to the chapters order. And now indeed the 3rd paragraph mostly transmits "Format", after the 2nd corresponds to "History". And wow... good call about Germany, as another even more stable kind of presence-"record". That's exactly the kind of stuff that should be added here! And among the many stuff you will keep add to the lead. 11205:"The "event weeks" refer to the weeks during which the contest takes place; the week in which the live shows are held and broadcast is typically referred to as "Eurovision week" by fans and the media." Could this be tidied up? I'm not sure what the difference is between "event weeks" and "Eurovision week". Is "event weeks" an internal description for the whole event, including the preparation? The term doesn't appear to be significant outside the Eurovision organisation. Could we rename that section "Preparations" to be clearer to the general reader what that section is about? 8028:". Keeping same non-condense wording order (as you explained), and minus "the contest"? If you still prefer otherwise, I now at least came to full conclusion and of course respect your stand. I will just advice to not use it several times in a paragraph as well as "in the contest's history" for Ireland. Especially if you meant the last is to extend the paragraph, as you'll add more/instead-material here. I see in general a lot "in the x contest" like on "Other countries" sections on annual articles, so that's why it was also important for me to air it here. :) 2747: 7471:

which should be served by the opening definition, and as it was already also mentioned in the appropriate (to my taste) existence-running explanation at the 2nd paragraph, and albeit that it shouldn't appear in brackets. But also, yeah! I just earlier noticed how the current article even repeats the running-period and 2020 cancellation for a 3rd time at the 2nd paragraph, in the phrase of "held for 64 years until cancelled in 2020" and adds "due to the COVID19". Yeah, I think that's too much and repetitive and I agree you removed that for the draft.

7821:* Personally I feel that explaining highest scoring winners like "Portugal's 2017 entry" to be a bit clunky, and I feel that the text at the minute has a better flow to it. I do see your point when it comes to including the points total, and that without a comparison as seen in the "Winners" article it does feel like including that does lack value; same goes for including Norway's win under the old system for the same reasons. I'll have a think about how best to describe this, as it might need a bit of an overhaul to give it more value. 9689:"the contest is also commonly referred to in English by the abbreviations 'ESC' " - I've not come across the use of ESC to describe the contest. The source is not active, and a Google search threw up many results, only a few of which were related to the contest. Just how "common" is this usage? I can see that in some documents that Eurovision Song Contest is sometimes abbreviated to ESC for later use, which is understandable, but would people commonly refer to Eurovision as "ESC" to each other? As in "Did you see ESC last night?" 1795:

want is to highlight Germany in its current reunified status as having two wins, but in 1982 Germany was not reunified. A bit like you say that Yugoslavia doesn't exist any more. In 1982, a reunified Germany didn't exist either. A reunified Germany only existed from 1990 onwards. And that is what's shown on the map. But in the table itself, it still shows Germany as 2 wins, the map shows 2 wins too, but divided geographically based on the fact a unified Germany never existed when they won in 1982, but did when they won in 2010.

8621:

understand it any better unless they had specific significance but then there would have been statements in regards to that. So I see removing this as serving better purpose of focus and relevance, for this article. There are also issues about Australia and as I wrote another paragraph with problematic details (and as once wrote overlapping "Participation") but wanted to rehash this first. And anyway I won't mind if you happen to remove those other stuff since I didn't raise as I think they should be removed.

6716:: I see what you are trying to accomplish here, but personally I think it feels a bit out of place and a bit bulky. Most of this information would surely be better placed on the country articles rather than on the Eurovision mainpage, since in my opinion this should be an overview of the contest as a whole rather than the full ins and outs of each country's history. I totally see your point about including SCG as part of Yugoslavia note, but as for expanding this into a full paragragh I have reservations. 6547:

noticed other paragraphed chapters somewhat touching countries who joined over the years. The first shows we both think alike about long in-body footnotes. :-) The second strengthens I think what I worked on, as well as something bigger I already thought yesterday - to eventually amalgamate "Participation" onto "Origins and History"... In turn (although not the main reason), this can also further shape the lead paragraphs in correspondence to the chapters order and fewer ones, once those are finalized.

6824:"Origins and History" - yeah, but I know there are already paragraphs pointing the seven countries who joined in 1956, and first Asian and African countries joining as geographical "landmarks" and such more, which I want to suggest taking advantage of. So even if you wanted to remove those chapters in the future, it's actually good we discussed these now for amalgamating my paragraphs precisely into those existing "Origins and History" 3 paragraphs which I earlier highlighted on the draft. 7483:

that records which will likely be beaten only few years from now, so won't need to be updated in the lead every year. That's a good example for how something notable goes hand in hand with lasting for a long stable period. :-) I do also wonder though if it the singers and songwriters should be mentioned instead of just pointing 2017 Protugal, Ireland 1992, 1993 etc' in the lead, if anyway its a summary for their therefore required appearance under a dedicated chapter later in the article.

31: 3127:

east Germany also competing on other musical events (furthermore imagine a situation of east Germany participating alongside west Germany at the old Eurovision contests). Therefore, I support plainly showing today's Germany with 2 wins, and since the image allows worded description beneath - I support explaining the first win there as achieved by the then west Germany; so the map itself gives preference to today's reality, with depicting a worded-consideration to that reality.

11111:

may, however, encounter those who look at every cite and question if some of the sources are reliable, and those who look at the format of every cite to ensure that every comma and semicolon is in the right place. So a good preparation would be to look at every source to ensure it is reliable, and every citation to ensure that they are all formatted the same way, and that page numbers and publishers' details are given properly. It would also help to have someone from

1325: 10648:. There isn't much guidance on when to create a section, nor how long or short it should be, other than "Short paragraphs and single sentences generally do not warrant their own subheading." Generally, a section which is broken up rather frequently into a series of one or two paragraph subsections, does somewhat inhibit readability, and it can be a matter of editorial discussion as to exactly when and when not to subsection - I've mentioned above that the sections 2207:, quoting someone's comments is unacceptable, and I have kindly asked twice that they refrain from quoting me, as it comes across as though they are implying I have dementia and failure to remember what I have written. But the IP has point-blank refused to acknowledge my request to cease with the re-quoting. If the IP wishes for me to return to their "civil debate", then a courteous acknowledgement and respect to Knowledge etiquette needs to be adhered to from 3245:, in which it was sourced that the scoreboard of the official Eurovision website placed Austria in 26th, and Germany in 27th, despite them both finishing with no points. The tie-break rule changes a lot over the years, and perhaps those changes need to be documents separately, so that people can understand when each version was implemented, and the changes within the tie-break over the years. The 2015 set of rules in regards to the tie-break explicitly state 6821:"Bullet points" - yeah I understand and thanks for the guidance here, anyway I'm all for 2 paragraphs division and don't like bullet here either; it was to show another option. But I therefore need to tell you that I also based that on the "Rules" appearing as long bullet points sentences (starting with "songs shouldn't exceed 3.5 minutes..."). So notice that when you copy/work on that from the actual-article as well, if its against Knowledge's guidelines. 5788: 5210: 4639: 6663:

your current draft). If we go with this, "Participation" can still be a sub-header, benefiting a 1st division highlight and the map-image for "Origins-History" currently containing only paragraphs. The only other "Participation" angle - Broadcasting area definitions, can easily and should in my opinion be under the anyway short "Format". All this barely, if any, effects your "Expansion" work which goes to details about participation rules. Finally...

1115:- some of which you have also participated in. The map is highlighting the fact that there use to be a divided East-West Germany up until its reunification in the early 1990s. There is a footnote on the map which directs people to the notes section, and provides an explanation into why it is done this way. If we change the colour for both, then people will think Germany have won 4 times, twice as a divided Germany, and twice as a reunified Germany. 420:

But one could say in telling someone about privacy is also a private conversation. But that is neither here nor there. I think it is best that you and I took some time-out from each other, as we are clearly getting nowhere. A bit of breathing space and cooling off period may rebalance the situation. So if you don't mind, I would like to call a 3-hour cool-off. Gives me chance to get some painkillers for my almost amputated toe and have a catnap too.

9415: 9395: 9350: 9325: 9302: 9286: 9261: 9241: 9225: 9205: 9138: 8282:

reader – which stems from your good "Expansion" "Format" chapters extension. If you still completely disagree with me, I respect that and as always you can revert also my 2nd further brief edition of relegation I now added. While I also think it should be longer avtually to specify semis, televised and predetermined relegation procedures. Other than that I won't attempt to add anything to the lead if you still feel strongly against extending it.

1661:

once, because the contest was held in Zagreb in 1990? The map itself depicts the fact that historically, Yugoslavia won once, and in present day, Serbia won once. Back in 1982, FR Germany was half the size in landmass, compared to present day FR Germany. And that factor is depicted on the map, showing the FR Germany win in 1982, based on how the country looked then on an atlas, and the win in 2010 based on how the country looks now on an atlas.

10664:. Anyone wishing to find out more about these topics would presumably already have done a search for them and found that we have articles on them. The section headers - Anniversary shows and Spin-offs, would guide those readers wanting to know about other such related shows to the appropriate sections without the need for the subheadings. So those two sections need sorting out. Other sections are rather less obviously need sorting out, though 5974: 5396: 4825: 9086: 5635: 5057: 4505: 5943: 5573: 5365: 4995: 4794: 4443: 5881: 5850: 5480: 5303: 5272: 4902: 4732: 4701: 4350: 8864:

appearances, which looks like it would be better as a subheading under a main heading rather than in a top-level section. #Anniversary shows and special events as well as #Spin-offs and related shows does not need subsections with details on each one, just discuss each in 1-2 sentences or at worst use 1 short paragraph for each with bullet points. To reach the recommended length, the prose length would be reduced by around 1/3 to 1/2. (

10591:

separate sentence. It's only Patricia Kaas and maybe Alla Pugavheva that add to the longer "considerably successful" list. You can also break the clogging of the relatively longer "considerably successful" with highlight UK, to refer to it as "a notable number of UK artists had considerable success..." then point the UK names here, and then continue to describe: "Already considerably successful from other nationalities include....".

6609:

of moving from "Participation" to the relatively short "Format" as well, but I will get to that later. I will keep tweaking my work on my computer a bit; and explain along with editing the draft tomorrow (as its very late here; for you probably too, 2 hours after me I think). And again I will revert so it won't complicate all your progressing work, then link them here which will enable revisions differences. Thanks, and good night!

5666: 5542: 5511: 5088: 4964: 4933: 4536: 4412: 4381: 5726: 5604: 5148: 5026: 4577: 4474: 10438:

the contest quite seriously at some point. Seriously as an art competition, that is. Countries do take it seriously today, but not for reasons of art. There are, as the article explores, political, cultural, commercial, and promotional aspect to the show today which sort of puts the art of song writing somewhat in the background. I expect Gainsbourg's song would have been deliberately naughty, as he was such a radical figure!

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should get a big copy edit, or change meaning and expression intentions, I put a dot in the middle to start a new line with "Based on those". And so since this is also not acceptable per the intention, I feel it needs to get shortened or to find a dot-split somewhere else. Also the other explanations sentences around it are well written with short sentence combinations, so that's why this further sticks out.

11228:

and I think presently that section describes the course of events well enough to relegate requiring that sentence as basically a description for terms that are barely used elsewhere in the article, so I've gone ahead and removed the sentence in question and made some slight modifications to better describe the course of events in the run-up to the contest, now renamed as "Preparations" per your suggestion.

9712:

I suspect there are four aspects which have been crowded together: 1) criticism of the the artistic quality 2) a comment or criticism on the range (or type?) of music styles 3) claims of a geopolitical element in the voting system 4) varying relations between participating countries and their broadcasters. I think it would be worth putting each of those aspects into separate sentences for clarity.

3635: 8384:

sentence without brackets also to standardize as the Yugoslavia's and Macedonia's footnotes. Do you see a need for the brackets for the years or can we remove those? Other than that, I also thought if "German reunification" is a must but seemed like a long-accepted term so didn't wanna mess with that. So I like you removed that and based on that made this different footnote for Germany. :-)

11314:

also as not to add further Kilo bites, and in English, also find good condensed phrasing for me as a non-native speaker. In this regard, for article size, I shared some of my views on my 2 last edit summaries as I made few copy-edits, but want to explain my view further, also for you at the chance you still look through the article. And also regardless if you already decide to promote it.

3320:

If the tying songs have received points from the same number of countries, the highest number of 12-point scores shall be decisive. If the winner still cannot be determined by this procedure, the number of times ten points have been awarded shall be the deciding factor. If necessary, this method shall continue until account has been taken of the number of times one point has been awarded.

7979:

potentially remove that entire paragraph altogether now (including Ireland as the most wins), since as you mentioned I have included quite a few instances where I've kinda repeated the same theme in a sentence in order to bulk it out. It might make more sense for that paragraph to close out the "Origins and history" section of the article instead, but let me have a think on it some more.

1073: 9988:

I also like to use the method of rephrasing to add independent explanations in order to "break" even much smaller citation chunks; particularly this long and complex challenging citation, but if you're up to try, I'm sure you'll be able to eventually make it look better with your rich vocabulary abilities. You've already successfully worked on equally and more complex stuff than this.

555:

cases sharing a land boundary can make two countries less likely to get along because there are likely to have been border disputes at some point in their past (although the same can be true of countries with seas between them, see England and France pretty much right up until WW1 for example), but it's also entirely possible to be allied with a country that's nowhere near yours.

6726:: I feel that most of what you've included in these paragraohs is already included in the table of participating countries, so in fact this would only be repeating what is already there but just expanding upon the geographies of each country. In particular for Edit 3, this would also I believe go against standard Knowledge style guidelines on when to use bullet point lists (see 7747:

layered suggestions for 1st paragraph, or otherwise alternate; as some of it correlates with the 2nd-4th following material ones. I also changed on the article in regards to the 1964 DR "bosses" to "management", as a usually better wording. But if you specifically wanna describe as the first, feel free to revert! So you're welcome to see my further suggestions for the "Lead".

1498:

landscape that FR Germany looked in 1982, and the landscape it looked in 2010. You can argue this until the cows come home, but it won't get changed, as it is common logical to show how the nation looked in both eras. Would you expect to to highlight the landmass of the USSR to show that they won 5 times (as Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Russia, and Azerbaijan)? No you wouldn't.

10669:

encyclopedia, plus some rather general information which may be better placed in other sections - such as "Several broadcasters in countries that are unable to compete have previously aired the contest in their markets..." may be better placed in the Participation section; and "The contest was first produced in colour in 1968...." may be better placed in Origins and history.

10072:- this could reasonably be reduced by half to two paragraphs - it is a minor aspect of the topic (every event has rehearsals and press conferences, and it is rare to devote so much attempt to something rather run of the mill. Four paragraphs could put off the average reader from reading the section, while a pithy one or two informative paragraphs might be more tempting. 8939: 7987:

song from the contest that went on to great success outside of the contest, but with 1,500+ songs in the history of the contest, how do you define which ones warrant inclusion in the lead? Those artists I included came straight from the best-selling music artists section, and I could only see those 4 artists in the list so it made more sense to focus on those.

1209:

a reunified Germany being in existence in 1982, then we would be portraying a factual inaccuracy and that would be more offensive to Germans who endured the political divide of that era. Now if we're to use a unified Germany for 1982, then we're basically changing history - and we do not have the right to change history in that manner. Something like this

11009:) 15:19, 16 March 2021 (UTC) I would suggest going through and unforcing the majority of the images - why is the image of Lys Assia forced bigger? Better to crop the image to focus on her - removing some of the unnecessary background, and present the image unforced so it matched the size of the other images, and was more in compliance with our MoS. 7629:

that I didn't create this discussion with level-2 sub-section instead of just bullet points, to dedicate to each of these things to react to, within this lead discussion. With that I think we quite easily managed to cover impressive developments and openness, and I thank you for your ongoing invitation for me to raise other stuff I can think about!

2057:. So, when you are ready to remove the overly-personalised remarks that are tarnishing me as a person, then I will be ready to engage in responding to your view point questions. I have the rest of my life to wait for you to carry out that request. However, you want me to respond, and thus wasting time in your want for that request to be fulfilled. 7784:

expanded upon under the chapters like "Winners". Also "with seven wins in total": "In total" repeats "most wins" intention. And, just pointing "Seven" enables moving "wins" to "four wins" instead of repeating "victories" twice. Not that repeating same word is that terrible, but gives a richer vocabulary feel, which I also see you always aim for.

3400:

tie-break resolution conditions had been implemented, and there was still a deadlock. Personally though, the section itself needs a complete re-write as it is making it our that the tie-break is only for first place, when the rules alone clearly argue that a tie-break condition can be used no matter what tied position is needing to be resolved.

10532:; it's not something big to add (just searching took some time and detailed to explain, also was a bit ill); rather, it's for bit more other-nationalities flavor for just same 4 of the artists I mentioned + 3/4 additional, 1 of them even composer – in turn will balance unknown/successful both artists + composers – compared to UK artists. 8278:

chapter. Let alone the appearance of relegation procedures on several chapters. And the reason the 1st thing popped for me to add to the lead, is mainly thanks to your great work of "Expansion" besides more chapters dealing with this, which you also extended. :-) And as the minor-general 3rd opinion also to add other aspects to the lead.

3727:"Since the introduction of semi-finals, four countries, other than the big five, have always reached the final: Azerbaijan, Romania, Russia, and Ukraine. However, Romania and Ukraine have missed at least one contest since the inception of the semi-finals." Doesn't the second sentence contradict the first? Shouldn't it be changed? -- 8894:. I had already put in quite some work on reducing the size of this article and siphoning off certain sections into secondary related articles, however clearly there is still some scope for reduction. I will take a look over the next couple of days to see what can be done to bring this word count down to a more manageable number. 9061:

there is a lot of copy-editing to be done I may suggest getting a copy-editor (on the basis that a fresh set of eyes is helpful). Anything more significant than minor improvements I will raise here. I see the reviewer's role as collaborative and collegiate, so I welcome discussion regarding interpretation of the criteria.

6639:

accepted though - worth reinserting 2003-2004-2007 Serbia-Montenegro reincarnations. Also framed: "Four countries...varying terms" which nicely corresponds to more such details. Further, as Australia mentioned at other chapters and my below table-replacement, can even remove, addressing just shifting status-names. My edit

469:- that you acknowledge their request and be courteous in trying ones best to refrain from doing what it is they asked. If you wish for me to respond in future, then I would appreciate that you cease quoting my own text in an attacking and derogatory manner. I will not respond any further until such re-quoting has stopped. 9984:

haha :-) ). Also appreciate you took consideration for my preference to reference the emphasis on staging (as another criticism aspect rather than artistic quality) from the section, and I think you put that central-important aspect also in clear and concise manner in the lead. To me it altogether really looks swell now.

7827:* I think maybe adding specific songs to the lead might go too far beyond what should be the scope of the lead section, but definitely worth including "Volare" in the "winning songs" section (even if it's not a winner but thanks for highlighting that one to me, will try and write something about non-winning hits! :-) ) 6864:

information. What you contributed about geography and decades was really good, and it's certainly something I've tried to include in the "Expansion" section, but it could be that a lot of what you created might better fit there, so expanding that section to include expansion of the contest between the 60s and 80s.

2176:. We cannot assume that "people would probably look at funny and back slowly away from " in context to the people of GDR. That is a personal opinion of your own, and we cannot speak for people of GDR without solid proof to back up such claim. Wording things like that in an attempt to use one's affiliations as an 7317:

themselves, these brand names for being successful outside the contest anyway. Or just as easily be hyphenated instead of parenthesis: "Celine Dion - winner for Switzerland". But actually my favorite option here is grouping winners and others like this: "includes two of the contest's winners Celine Dion and ABBA

8380:

talk about its broadcast elsewhere. So I'm sorry but for me it just doesn't sit well. I will have to stay in disagreement about this. Anyway I don't think it can be a problem for FA and apparently not to others since that stuck in the lead for a long time, but I do appreciate your approach to to international.

7935:

instead "victories" repetition) so please let me know your thoughts for this when you can. Oh and thanks for the "in 1990s"! I later noticed my "early" 1990s is indeed inaccurate cause of 1996 win (late 1990s) but didn't have energy to edit again... Glad we agree here and thanks for implementing that. :-)

7271:" for example..." Also, should be "is" in these articles, not "was". Let alone, the EBU is mentioned later in the articles but not in the lead, and with 1956's article exception for introducing EBU further stressing this point. So back to here, I strongly suggest inserting the Eurovision network as well. 11227:

To clarify, "event weeks" refers to the two week period that included rehearsals with the contest participants, press conferences, etc., whereas "Eurovision week" is the week in which the contest including semi-finals is held. Reading it back it seems to make more sense to not mention either by name,

10891:

To me it looked better as when "Origins and History"-related paragraph ("based on Sanremo, since 1956...") was introduced in the lead before the "Rules"-related one. As History introduces the roots and meaning, with the historical importance-context And as I said in the past, I don't know it that's a

10590:

Annie Schmidt + Goran Bregović, anyway will join the separate paragraph currently containing only 3 composers. Annie Schmidt + Francois Hardy, an example showing prolific figures in other fields besides music, for Eurovision personas. And Lara Fabian, Ofra Haza and Francois Hardy can have therefore a

10539:

In more detail, for the sales figures – I think too you made a smart choice basing on the bestselling article for ABBA, Julio, Celine and Olivia. With that, they also appear there per certified sales, and on the other hand here based on estimations and phrased for the other 3 (except ABBA) as factual

10437:

Some good ideas. I wasn't aware that Gainsbourg was involved as a writer. That's really significant, because he's such a respected and serious artist, not the sort of person one would expect to be involved in an ephemeral pop contest. That kind of shows that some countries, well France at least, took

10144:"Cultural influence" to be a more significant and encyclopaedic aspect of Eurovision than the spin-offs, so reducing the Spin-off section to an amount less than or at least equal to that section would seem appropriate; but - as I say - that's just on off the cuff judgement, not based on any research. 10002:

I like the changes in the lead to the criticism aspects. I now have just three aspects of the GA review to complete - MoS, Broad coverage, and Focus; these can be the trickiest to do, though Focus is usually fairly straightforward to identify, but can be difficult to resolve if material has to be cut

9450:

There are no edit wars and no substantial vandalism. There's significant ongoing article building which is a little surprising considering that the article was nominated over four months ago, but nothing that concerns me, or that should interfere with the GA process (which not infrequently results in

8688:

Hi, I see, I thought you may plan to also already remove big chunks from the chapter here this weekend, while I think the skeleton and overall info here is very good minus those stuff + some slight (like 10% of this chapter) further info, as I removed other parades and sporting events specifications,

8662:

The "a" vs. "the" debate I understand where you're coming from with this, however for a number of reasons I think "the" is the better choice. It may come down to people reading things differently, as I don't read "the" in this context as meaning that it's an already established fact, and actually if

8616:

On "Origins-History" I like seeing about 90%; it concludes valuable relevant meetings and contest progress trademarks. I understand you mean to give specific and complete info, as perceiving as lacking to just state a country. But the broadcaster with his country alone already covers up what needs to

8563:

And to clarify I prefer you do it, as you'll know better in regards to this rest stuff of hotels, presidents/vice, and cities removals - in relation to what you plan to show on the contest's history dedicated article. And as I also don't want to touch and trim too much of your material, especially in

8379:

song competition, organized by the EBU, and featuring primarily European countries". But to me it's still like defining at the opening of Sanremo "...is a festival broadcast in Europe/internationally, organized by RAI, featuring Italian singers" instead of saying "National Italian festival" and later

8253:

Networking at very opening perfectly links contest's-name as the medium of then pointed organizer-EBU + more highlight of contest's enabling-reasoning, as chapter's programming exchange-idea. In turn, 1st paragraph focus direct link: "submit "-"vote" actions; instead of "…submit…to be performed on TV

8194:

While I appreciate where you are coming from with wanting to include the growth of the contest, relegation and qualifiers in the lead, again it's a little bit like above with "too much, too soon". I feel the lead should be for a general overview of the contest, and those sort of details are maybe too

8174:

While I feel the Eurovision network is an important facet of the contest, its history etc., personal preference I feel it just works better within the second sentence, especially once we describe the contest as in my comment above. Describing the contest first as a song contest (with participants and

8083:

Thanks! I've made a few edits to the lead now, removing Portugal as highest scoring winner and instead including Germany as the most frequest participant, a feat which I feel is more long-term than the voting system, especially since it's only 4 years old! Will have a think about how we might want to

8031:

Also if under a chapter, not in the lead, and further if for other voting methods' highest-scorers: What do you think eventually about delinking from those 4 Portugal/other scorers references, even if you keep same wording? I still think under a chapter its best to link just those songs names. I also

7986:

I think my concern with including "Volare" in the lead is principally about the potential exponential expansion scope, as in if you add that song, how many other songs would warrant inclusion, which might then make that paragraph just continue on endlessly. "Volare" is definitely a great example of a

7628:

And yeah I enjoy talking to you and in general about such stuff but so that people can keep up and participate with their own replies and further ideas as I loaded a lot here, I will give it about a week to raise anyway small and not so urgent 1-2 other stuff I further thought about. I made a mistake

7316:

especially in the lead, as the 2020 cancellation case. What's important enough to be pointed out in the lead, therefore comes across as a kind of paradoxical intention by appearing in parenthesis in the lead. An option is to not mention their achievements/countries since what's most important here is

6809:

of their footnotes which you shortened from the actual article so this info already exists. *From the above - added material about Serbia and Montenegro still makes an overall few-sentences paragraph - for all those 3/4 countries combined which also briefly reflects their overall participation status

6662:

The additional chapters "Expansion", "History" - pointing some joiners: However, my 1-2 paragraphs/bullet options can easily be incorporated onto existing "History" paragraphs which in themselves divided to early and later periods as my favorite option (as I noticed later, 3 before-last paragraphs on

6502:

Yeah I think that's a valid point, we do have a lot of articles related to contest as a whole. Although having a history article does make sense, at the minute there just isn't the content in it to justify it. I've written a bunch of stuff into the draft today, which perhaps we can move over and keep

6401:

I've corrected this to reflect the fact that at only one contest - in 76 - was Germany presented as 'West Germany'. At all others it was presented (eg, on the scoreboard, in the titles, in the official programme, etc) as 'Germany'. The exception was 67 in Vienna when it was presented in German as the

3325:

In the very unlikely case that after applying the above procedure in a Semi-Final there is still a tie concerning the qualifying ranks and non-qualifying ranks, the tie shall be resolved by giving precedence to the country which was earlier in the running order for the SemiFinal in question. The same

2251:

all I am asking is that you kindly remove my name from the bullet-point comments of yours above, as it is singling me out and I do not appreciate that kind of behaviour. If there are remarks that I have made that you were to ask me to remove, then I would gladly oblige to such upon request of course.

1723:

was also known as FR Germany (like it is known today). However, in doing do, we'd ultimately be saying that in 1982, the German Democratic Republic also took part, and thus won alongside their Western counterpart; when it is a known fact that that is impossible. The Democratic side (aka East Germany)

1599:

Your source says, a few lines above the one you quoted: "Germany finally had its first win in the history of the song contest with its 27th try." - No mention of West Germany. And again a few lines below the one you quoted: "Finland’s entrant, Kojo, also sang about peace. His song - a protest against

1208:

In 1982 when Germany won, the nation was divided politically. Even the maps of 1982 shown an East and West Germany. Although the EBU did not refer to the FR Germany as "West Germany", their atlas status of such nation in that era needs to be depicted correctly - which is what we have done. If we show

1185:

If we're honest this debate gets 'thrashed out periodically' only because, as the threads highlighted show, you and only you argue with everyone else that the map is correct. As for a "factual lie", it's the map which is showing a lie, ie that Germany has only won once (when you yourself just said it

1163:

We know Germany won twice. But in 1982 there was a massive wall dividing the nation. The Federal Republic of Germany was on the western side of that wall, and the map has to show that historical factor. If we show the nation of Germany as being a reunified nation in 1982, then we would be portraying

952:

area. And I have many a time in the past pushed for a reform in how the project operates, so that we can improve in our standards, and then we'd ultimately never get into these complexed over-heated debates. But every time I have instigated a reform, I just get told to "shut up, it won't happen". But

933:

that there shouldn't be any citations in that section anyway, as the lead only summarises content from the entire article. Are the points raised that appear in the lead, also appear in more detail within the main article body? If so, do they go into better detail? If they do, then the lead just needs

539:

Your reasoning makes no sense as Iceland for example has placed second, twice. Even though they have no neighbours. United Kingdom and Ireland has plenty of wins though they only have each other as neighbours. Of course there are regional voting, but overall it does not effect the results in terms of

11313:

Thank you very much SilkTork, for noting me, too, that means a lot to me, as indeed was hard especially to find for varied fields and for specific figures. Then condense this different coverage types. It was some struggle of sources types, trying finding sources amalgamating info for several artists

10884:

Sims2aholic8, The lead must be up to four paragraphs. That's also why I added then that Criticism and Inspiration in culture aspects as one paragraph, to complete to overall four. Technically, from the seven you split, you can easily join 6# & #7 (anyway formerly attached) to #5; even though you

10793:

requires that information in the lead is also in the main body. In the sentence: "the longest-running annual international televised music competition and one of the world's longest-running television programmes", the first part is mentioned in the main body, but the second part ("one of the world's

10513:

and please do share your ideas! It's a hard line to tread which artists should be mentioned, and we don't really want it to become a huge list of famous/semi-famous artists that have competed, especially given the article is already over 3,000 words above that recommended for FA, but more than happy

10486:

Thank you "SilkTork" for your appreciative feedback. :-) I looked yesterday to see if both of you saw within the replies exchanges, and so was happy today for Sims2aholic8 further implementations, and both your kind responses, to contain my thoughts here too. Earlier I commented for the lead without

10162:

I have merged these two sections and reduced the prose considerably, and I have also replaced the image to a more recent example that tells the same message. I would be interested to hear your thoughts on the new section, and potentially on whether you believe further reductions could be called for.

10143:

as they "clutter an article with headings and inhibit the flow of the prose". Given there is a dual concern with those two sections it would be appropriate to look into removing the sub-section titles and reducing the remaining weight of both sections. Possibly a judgement call, but I would consider

9987:

For the Broadcasting-Area copyvio, it also bothered me few years ago, way before you started working on the article as it was already there. I also think, even style-wise (even if not breaching citation rules) that it should be introduced in a more independent manner to break the prolonged citation.

9919:

On the 'ESC' point, the reference was recently deprecated it appears; I have since added an archived version of this webpage which states the 'ESC' abbreviation and also included an additional ref where appropriate for a live page detailing "Logo & Artwork". It is not typically an abbreviation I

9711:

styles, and claims regarding a geopolitical element in the voting system and the competing entries, with varying relations between both participating countries and other territories' broadcasters." That's an awkward sentence. I've read it a few times now and I'm not quite sure what the intention is.

8658:

Thanks for clarifying your comments! A lot of what you outline I agree with, and I plan to implement when I develop the History article further this weekend, particularly the names/locations information which is more relevant to a separate article. This section is very bloated currently, slightly on

8612:

Thank you too, and again for your last appreciation at lead above! Yeah I expected you won't get round the other article, and easier for me as gradually progress with you. I'm still not back to my job, and only have energy to this Knowledge article. And for this chapter I'm not just holding back but

8590:

Thanks again for your comments! I think that's a good point on removing some of the extraneous events from 1954, to streamline it a bit. These can certainly be moved over to the History article when I get round to redeveloping that out. This could again be more something for the History article, but

8277:

Ultimately, I see the lead as a provider of attaching what's related with as less wording/alternative repetitions as possible, as well highlights of all following chapters within a still short to medium 3-4 lead paragraphs. That is per info which is considered – to begin with – as warranting its own

8023:

Thanks for extending your thoughts for "Portugal's 2017 entry" for me. I suggested for shortening, but based on my view for sufficient "2017 entry" instead of the already implied "the contest". If you're bothered by the "Portugal's 2017 entry" ordering, I just make this final suggestion: "Portugal's

7871:

In relation to above, I focus on shortening current lead stuff, before I, personally, advice with you and others about adding stuff. But at this chance, it's worth pointing how many voting methods occurred (without periods) in the lead, and perhaps explain current method. With that I ask: is there a

7645:

Ho, following your previous comment that you consider about 2020, I immediately reacted here and just now saw you updated the draft. I think a just stating the cancellation keeps the focus on the annual general flow, and teases the reader to go read further the chapter of what happened in 2020, even

7470:

Continuing from the above: I wanna clarify that I actually do think its worth mentioning 2020 cancellation in the lead as the most unique thing to happen in the contest's history eventually, just that it shouldn't like "interfere" with the generic essence-definition of the contest as an annual thing

6793:

of course I appreciate your thoughts and kindness regardless if you disagree, on anything. :-) But, I think we got to few fundamental misunderstandings. Most important for me - to understand when to post: I'm sorry I didn't understand you prefer discussing chapters only after you initially-finished.

6650:

Table paragraph: Framed by decades emphasizing joiners-numbers + geography. Turns as very interesting periodical contrasts, especially 1990-2000s showcasing "...biggest amount... eleven, fifteen..." joining while 2010s "only one...albeit unprecedented" Australia's case. Other stuff, I didn't noticed

6608:

In this regards, I do like your direction of shortening "Origins and History". A) As I also thought the same, mainly for the many events mentioned as the Eurovision exchange programmes in the early 1950s. B) Then even easier to place stuff from "Participation" onto that. + Some other stuff I thought

6577:

Hi! Glad to hear that we're on the same page with some of your thoughts! Happy to discuss how we best merge some of the sections, so yes if you want to go ahead and edit the draft to be able to show your edits then go ahead! I had been thinking that the "origins" section could be reduced quite a bit

6053:

I'm asking this, since I cannot seem to find a Knowledge convention on this topic. There is low-level edit warring on the pages every year because people interpret the need for inclusion differently. My personal opinion would be to include the language if there is a line spoken in that language more

3247:

Rule 1.4 para 5: "In the very unlikely case that after applying the above procedure in a Semi-Final there is still a tie concerning the qualifying ranks and non-qualifying ranks, the tie shall be resolved by giving precedence to the country which was earlier in the running order for the semifinal in

3090:

I think it's fairly clear that Germany should be shown as winning twice, as it's the same country (East Germany was absorbed into the existing Federal Republic of Germany), and to make it match the text, which lists Germany as having won twice. The argument above that "people will think Germany have

1660:

To look at it another way... based on what is being said about Germany, would also apply to Serbia. Yugoslavia won once, but so have Serbia. Would that mean we would highlight Serbia on the map as having two wins, because Serbia was once part of Yugoslavia? Would we in theory have to say Croatia won

1543:

You failed to address almost every point put before you, and simply restate your position. Consensus here on Knowledge is plainly against you. That should at least give you pause. You are pushing a very unique POV, and you should not revert the article to that position until you untied at least some

1383:

had been successful in their participation. Would we then have to say that although the nations of Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine, Russia, and Azerbaijan won once, they were part of the Soviet Union thus giving the former nations a total of 5 wins? No we wouldn't. So we cannot show a map portraying that

1230:

Firstly, the period of debate only occurred after Germany's second win in 2010; before then the country had indeed only won once so a map showing that would have been correct. Secondly I don't need to retract any 'accusation' because I never made any: I stated a fact, ie that you are the only person

877:

13:11, 25 May 2015 (UTC) It is an idiom phrase that I coined myself. And looking at it now, it does look a bit harsh. Allow me to explain. In real life I use the phrase "be prepared for the lashing"; which translates from my own idiom to English as meaning "be ready as I can be an active debater and

515:

The section should also mention that ESC rules heavily discriminate against some participant countries. Since nobody can vote for themselves, each country is at the mercy of the others. Countries with few or no friends have no chance to win or even score well, no matter how catchy a song and what an

419:

If you tell people to be civil, then you should also be civil to them. Treat people how you wish to be treated in return. I never implied that you had a private conversation with me - where did you get that idea from? You were the one to tell me that this is not the place for private conversations.

11384:

The article now passes on all points apart from the lead. I'm now looking at the lead, and the first thing I notice is that the interval acts are not mentioned, even though there is a section dedicated to this. I just had a look for which, apart from Riverdance, are the most notable acts that could

11329:

At "Format" 2nd paragraph. "all participating countries compete in one of the two semi-finals, except", but the intro explains there are semis and final, then a following explanation for who and why automatic finalists, then for remaining countries at semis, and it's a small paragraph which is easy

11255:

for words (such as "soon") which could be changed or removed. We are still over 60kb - but it is now down to 64kb. I don't want to unnecessarily hold up this GA review, so I'm accepting that the current length is reasonably appropriate for the nature of the topic. That's not to say that it couldn't

11152:

Good progress is being made on the remaining tricky areas. Size is still a slight issue as the article is still over 65K. Sometimes a topic requires that sort of size, and this may be the case. I'm not sure there is much that can be cut but I will have another read through. I'll look closely at the

10594:

So overall these few additional criteria (Academy, at least 10 million also for future stars, pioneers or developers in other fields) adds variation also for east Europe and west Asia, still keeps UK highlighted as apparently the country who sent most successful singers (as it still weighs like 40%

10569:

Ofra Haza who herself sold few million records maybe more than 10 million, Grammy-nominated and 2-3 of her songs even positioned at the year-end top 100 in several countries (like top 100 for 2 songs of hers in 1988 & 1989 year-ends in Italy). Also one of the pioneers in World and fusion Music,

8863:

to reduce the detail in the main article. What immediately stood out to me was #Political controversies and #LGBT visibility sections which could easily be separate articles with 1-2 paragraphs of coverage in this article. I would also consider trimming #Hosting section and #Interval acts and guest

8624:

BTW for "the" reasoning of only one cancelled edition, I understand what you mean, but it's still clear it's one. "the" looks as though it's already known, when it's just introduced; an unknown fact. So just my view here as per your reasoning I still think it should be "a" unless it's considered an

8548:

Hi, I can now approach this chapter; I'v decided to remove few events as you see, as I think such can instead be described in general as the nature of Eurovision experiments and programming, while I left one notable example for FIFA; also still without pointing specific year and Swiss location when

8437:

Now I see you added "67 winners to the lead". To me that's like Netherlands 2019 as it's bound to change every year. Another thing in regards to Ireland - remember you said maybe its wins record too much for the lead? I think and now see myself that maybe that's also to do with pointing its 4 tight

8420:

About Germany, wanted to say for sometime but I talked first on other stuff: it actually participated in all editions, and now with the relegation info even simpler to highlight it as the only country to do so, and can add "including submission to one relegation round". This enables leaving UK info

8281:

I do understand your thinking, as a reader and worker on the whole article, that everything appears later on. But I consider mostly readers who only look at the lead then also think about the possibilities of the FA reviewer looking at a summary function, and then again anyway my lead feedback as a

7978:

I do have total faith that your comments and suggestions are meant to help improve the article, so they're always welcome with me! Yes I added "Amar pelos dois" back in mostly to bulk up that sentence, because I felt that it seemed to trail off without it. Right now I am starting to think we should

7916:

And I'm sorry but I also don't see the need to add back Portugal's singer & songwriter. Though I understand now its a stand alone (without Norway), to me song's name is sufficient. If that's also to do with extending back the paragraph - anyway you're going to add a lot of stuff to the lead and

7898:

Regardless of text, I feel its further heavier to link 4 times now, for: Portugal in contest, Portugal 2017, song itself, and feel its unrelated to link 2017 contest; that "Amar Pelos Dois" is the attraction, maybe also Portugal-2017 article link. With that I do agree that now when you only address

7482:

Yeah I'm happy you also don't see the need for recent winner, and I stress that for me it's also because it's not notable as every edition produces a new winner, while Portugal 2017 and Norway 2009, and Ireland 4 wins in the 1990s achievements, are noteworthy by nature of breaking records, and with

7108:

I've expanded the "Format" section to include more info on the shows, to accommodate a new "Big Five" reference, and have also expanded on how the contest is financed. This seems like the most logical area to include the "Big Five" for the first time; could possibly see it maybe in the "Origins and

7051:

Hi all. Think I've got the draft into a good state now, so hoping I could get a couple of reviews and comments on where it's at right now. Please do let me know if there's anything you'd like to see different, format or layout changes, anything that I've missed that you believe should be added, and

6638:

East Germany never...", bracketed years+explanations. I used for example a more epitomizing "except for 1976" cancelling "this name" and "that for all others", and enables East Germany reference finish. More Yugoslavia flow - thanks to your shortening, and if I understand 1992 status. I do think if

6582:

article, which would bulk that out and put that into a better place, which keeping a shorter overview of the highlights on the main article. A lot of what I am doing at the minute is just getting ideas and words out of my head and onto the page, and then I plan to read through and edit as I go, but

3358:

As neither Austria or Germany received any points, and the fact the official scoreboard verifies Austria as 26th and Germany as 27th, then it is clear the EBU resulted in using the latter condition on placing the country which was earlier in the running order as finishing in a higher place than the

3319:

Should there be a tie for the last position in a SemiFinal (because two songs have received the same number of points) or for the first place in the Final, as well as any other situation where a tie occurs, the winner shall be the song which has obtained points from the highest number of countries.

2498:

There are a few questions that I would like to raise about this, all of which are positive and depending on the answer, could persuade me into rethinking the whole map thing to agree the views of others. But I will not put my question forward until the personally aimed remarks, that I have asked to

2117:

The map is currently inconsistent, as it ignores a number of other political changes that happened over the years. Wesley has so far made no attempt to explain why Germany's situation is different enough to warrant a map inset. It is also already obvious that the situation will get more complicated

1794:

Yugoslavia does not exist any more, I agree. But when they won in 1989 it did exist, and that is shown in the map, because Yugoslavia won in a time of history when the country existed. Germany exists now yes, as a reunified nation. But in 1982, it was divided into West and East. What people seem to

1403:

Let me point out another weak spot in your argument. You write above: "Federal Republic of Germany looked like this" - Exactly, and while it did change shape, it is still the Federal Republic of Germany, the country that won two ESCs. You yourself can't even address that entity that purportedly won

937:

The question at hand is do artists capitalise on the surrounding publicity and further their careers? Well, some could argue that they do, some would argue they don't. But wouldn't that be down to personal judgement and how well-known former winners have become across Europe and the world? ABBA and

664:

The ESC also "provides an opportunity" to pick your nose in front of a large audience. That does not mean that that is typical for the ESC, and it does certainly not mean that it should be in the lede. The claim is at best badly sourced, and quite possibly wrong, in any meaningful sense of the word

554:

I'm not going to comment on why Hungary does or does not get votes, but there's a big difference between not having any neighbors who share a land boundary with your country and not having any 'friends' or political allies within the ESC which is what the original comment was talking about. In some

11388:

Summary: Include mention of interval acts in the lead (also mention notable interval acts such as Riverdance). Tighten lead*. Include mention of opening acts and an outline of the final in the article. *I'll give a hand with this after the interval acts are included in the lead, so don't worry too

11337:

BTW, I also went through a bunch of footnotes, but not sure about parameters ordering and spacing for some, but see some are differently ordered as from older edits from other editor's. I don't know exactly the recommendation, especially for those including "archived from" and I'll leave that, but

11110:

FA reviews, same as GA reviews, vary according to who does them. Some FA reviews, like GA reviews, can be simply a series of minor copy edit points, though a FA review will generally also be accompanied by a few votes of support which are little more than "I like it", but are morale boosters. You

10598:

Just another thing which can reduce wording Sims2aholioc8, I think the names of songs under "Winners" can be removed, like Dana (1970), also pointing Linda Martin as the performer of 1992, and Celine's song. I removed both for Dana and Celine as they are located anyway within another artists which

10543:

Okay, so now I like to further address few artists. To not make my comment longer, I'v already added Nana with edit summary to the article. However, feel free to revert but if you could then also explain if you think it doesn't feat. The thing is also that the lead mentions "boosting international

10403:

This will require perhaps changing the "Winners" section title, but can be added simply as "Winners and Successful Artists" or just "Successful Artists" as indicating success either by winning Eurovision or generally in their career, if accepted to add such more artists along with those UK singers

9674:

I understand the reason for the inclusion of the Corry Brokken performing with an orchestra image, however it is not a clear image as the figures are quite remote. Is there a clearer image of a performer with a live orchestra? The caption could also be clearer, indicating that since 1972 the music

8441:

And in general - Controversy, politics brief mention and in principal everything making a 1-level chapter is best summarized in the lead as well, possibly with creating a 4th paragraph for that, if my above suggestions are okay with you and I can edit the current lead to overall 3 paragraphs, from

8261:

I also deliberated, and want to explain, that I like most to leave an opening definition as its own small paragraph "logline" to then "synopsis" for rest of the lead. Logline as for the contest's name + network + organizer. And thought to amalgamate the "Each country submit and votes…" as into the

8040:(not single though) of all time! Its not mentioned at "best selling singles" article cause of its combined different versions sales. And for this reason, that you address "best selling singles" (and not songs), I understand if you don't want to mention any songs including "Volare" in the lead. :-) 7942:

It's important for me to stress - I don't mean to nit-pick and burden. I sincerely comment all this cause I wanna help you the best way I can think of, and for stuff I'm not sure I got your view on, and as I have fun sharing my detailed thoughts precisely on this polishing stuff, when someone open

7938:

I do feel that pointing "Volare" shouldn't be considered beyond the lead scope, since it's equivalent to point some few best selling artists and "Amar pelos dois", as you greatly did. But since its songs and not artists, let alone a best selling via combined sales of many different artists, I'm on

7787:

4th paragraph: Since we include best selling singers, worth to point 2 notable singles. Especially "Nel blu di pinto di blu" which exceeded 22 million!! copies as truly within the top 20 or even 10 best selling of all time. Even though it's from all versions of different singers combined, still it

7783:

Glorious truly fantastic Ireland :-) Since the highlight manages to be demonstrated - via description of most victories including 4 most tightest wins - So, no need to specify those 4 years, as the other 3 wins (1970, 1980, 1987) and other specific years for other stuff which we removed and can be

7536:

Thanks again for your comments and suggestions! I think it's always a good thing to learn from each other and that we can collaborate and reuse good ideas from other versions of Knowledge as well, so thanks for contributing what works well on the Hebrew version. I'll take on each of your points in

7466:

I take into account "pan-European" as something more layered than my understanding capture; if it means something somewhat different or beyond: can be "countries all over the world but still connected to a European organization or connected to some kind of European flavor". In other words, if this

7458:

I do still want to sharpen some of my views for yours and others consideration. Also out of thinking maybe you still consider some stuff and haven't gotten to change. But if it's because you disagree and see otherwise, of course I accept, and let you keep seeing what others think, maybe all others

7309:

Don't see the point, and pointing along with the song the singer, writers and composers; and also in the lead. Perhaps "WP:RECENT" refers only to cases of leaving a "blur" period resulting from a contributor's point in time when donating info, expressing "recently" or "lately". However, I do think

7259:

A fundamental miss. This is the umbrella medium for the countries TV broadcasters, as well as, therefore, the actual thing the contest's named after. The contest started mainly as EBU's desire to experiment with, and expand, TV transmission and programs exchange in 1950s Europe, manifested in this

7159:

of my edits too (which may not work, going by the guide but may as well try!), and put it forward for FA review. Gonna be offline for a few days visiting family but will continue to make minor tweaks as and when over the next couple of weeks! Thanks for your help with suggestions and first review,

6705:

Thanks, looking through your edits now and there are some interesting things I can see that you're trying to include. I'll publish my responses below. Like I said previously, at the moment I'm just trying to get ideas onto the page, so everything I'm doing is subject to edits and change, but given

6542:

Hey, first, thank you back, for your earlier note! I now want to tell you, I noticed the current draft "Participation" which gave me quite few ideas. From yesterday I worked (on my computer) to minimize from both table+footnotes (as for West Germany, Yugoslavia...); while giving the add of a frame

3424:

As one who frequently stays up as late as possible himself, that's perfectly fine. I don't blame you for wanting to clarify the rules, even if that might have been better targeted at the page rather than at me. I only noticed that that was mentioned in the section about ties, while being blatantly

3399:

From what was gathered, the "host country exemption" was never the case, and I have no idea how anyone interpreted the rules as implying such case. The rules (albeit more clear in the 2015 wording) just says that a country who performed earlier in the running would be ranked higher, once all other

3212:

The 2009 rules document given as the source of that makes no mention of the host country being involved in ties, and since the 2015 contest scoreboard lists the host Austria above Germany when they tied for last, with Austria having performed earlier, I'm going to suggest that the latter clause be

2687:

as an uninvolved admin, please could you provide immediate admin intervention here. This is now getting seriously out of hand, with the failure to comply with a simple request from an editor to redact comments that over-personalise myself and tarnish my personality to people who may be passing and

1755:

In addition, you continue to miss a whole lot of arguments: What about law? What about custom? What about the fact that your position (and the map you defend) is inconsistent, since it ignores a whole lot of political changes? What about Algeria, Transnistria, the Crimea, Israel, Selfkant, Cyprus?

1008:

Please don't quote my comments, I am not of dementia that I need to be reminded what I have said. So I kindly ask that you do not quote my text again. And the reform yes is for the project, but seeing as all these articles fall under the project scope, then ultimately the reform would carry a huge

627:

The two sources are horrible to support the case. Here is a quote from one of them: "While most Eurovision winners quickly, and perhaps deservedly, fade back into obscurity, the contest helped launch the careers of ABBA and Celine Dion." Yes, the source contradicts the claim. The other source does

11284:

Thanks again for your comments. I just wanted to check in to see if there are any other areas of the article as it currently stands that you believe requires work to get it up to GA? I've done a fair bit of copy-editing in the past couple of days too, but I would be eager to hear your thoughts on

10115:

This is quite a lot of work I am suggesting, and the suggestions are up for discussion - they are not demands I am making, but areas where, as an independent eye, it appears the article and topic as a whole would benefit. I am quite happy to listen to arguments for keeping those sections as they

9840:

The "European Broadcasting Area" is bounded on the West by the western boundary of Region 1, on the east by the meridian 40° East of Greenwich and on the South by the parallel 30° North so as to include the northern part of Saudi Arabia and that part of those countries bordering the Mediterranean

9835:

The "European Broadcasting Area" is bounded on the west by the western boundary of Region 1, on the east by the meridian 40° East of Greenwich and on the south by the parallel 30° North so as to include the northern part of Saudi Arabia and that part of those countries bordering the Mediterranean

9775:

wants to edit in either of these two ways, or if both of you still see four different aspects suitable for four sentences. * And apologies if I should have responded at the bottom of the entire review; I'v read the GA-comment procedure but didn't see info on that, thus assumed below this specific

9060:

I'll start reading over the next few days and then begin to make comments. I am normally a slow reviewer - if that is likely to be a problem, please let me know as soon as possible. I tend to directly do copy-editing and minor improvements as I'm reading the article rather than list them here; if

8723:

In section 5.6.1 (Presentation of the votes) it mentions how "From 2016 onwards, the jury voting sequence is opened by the spokesperson of the host country of the previous year, with the spokesperson of the current year's host country being the one to close it." There is no citation currently for

8620:

For example, the important info about a meeting in England with BBC for founding the network and in Italy with RAI for founding the contest, already serves the purpose; "Imperial" hotel in Turquoy and "Palazzo Corsini" in Rome, and vice presidents and BBC and RAI/RTF full names - these don't help

8485:

I went ahead and condensed and reformatted the lead as you described; wasn't aware that the lead was supposed to align with the structure, but it does make sense! Again, please do feel free to expand upon this if you wish. I would be keen to see what you would like to include in the lead from the

8285:

I also reshaped the footnotes which I worked on my computer, following your preference to keep as such and as I showed examples on the talk, for taking advantage to shorten and simplify further, based on their reliance by pointing to/from already clear details on "Participants" table. And we only

8265:

We can think, if readers wanna know via a brief lead-reference that there are chapters about relegations ahead; Further – for readers only looking at the lead as summary function and don't wanna further read even to the 1st History chapter – will they like to know the contest dramatically grew to

8116:

Celine Dion before ABBA - I always liked to follow those best selling singles and articles myself! Now following our talks looked again and Celine has about 173 million certified - as well as more claimed - sales, compared to ABBA (~60 million). You placed ABBA first cause its associated with the

7746:

Hey, congrats on finishing adding all the desired material and thanks for posting you're ready for further feedback! I decided to also wait with these lead stuff until you let know you're done. I first post smaller suggestions about 3rd and 4th paragraphs. Then if we agree, I can proceed for more

7624:

Thanks for your further thoughts about "International" and the umbrella networks as well! I also once proposed "international" for individual articles :-) but then me and others accepted it ain't for countries randomly spread across the world, and I didn't think about pan-European then. Following

7462:

What I wanna keep wondering on is first: "held every year" vs. "annual" and "primarily European countries"+"international" vs. "pan-European". I think if there is an option to epitomize an explanation to one word, its always better especially for a lead and an opening definition flow. Also in the

7405:

Hi, thanks for reaching out, you've made some really good points there that I'm sure we can include! The information related to the Eurovision network is included in the "origins" paragraph at present, but it is definitely worth a mention in the lead, especially given your arguments above. As for

6859:

Thanks for clarifying, I certainly didn't mean to discourage you from providing feedback as I definitely welcome ideas from all directions even when I'm formulating the article! I feel that with your ideas on explaining Germany/Yugoslavia/North Macedonia that it works better as footnotes; I think

6830:

I also just randomly "bolded" the opening sentences of those 3 "History" paragraphs (albeit they started with pointing countries) - so you and others can easily find them and compare to my material beneath them. Didn't mean I want to bold them on the actual article. So, sorry for these confusions

6817:

I meant paragraphs for countries joining by decades instead of the table, not in addition, just as the Germany-Yugoslavia-Macedonia paragraph, instead of the footnotes. Earlier I kept the table+footnotes on the draft because I wanted to give an easy option for you and others to compare my text to

6604:

Yeah I just started feeling bit uncomfortable and that will be more complicated for me discussing some stuff later on, as I see you keep working hard, along with adding to "Expansion of the contest". Though, my problem isn't with that, I think it looks overall great from my brief browsing on that

3126:

I support it should be counted as 2 wins for a one colored nation, per legal successor status point, in accordance to the article being written within today's reality. With that, I support that the reality of the country when it first won has to be addressed; there were 2 different entities, with

2530:

You do understand things, great! Indeed, I will not make public the question I wish to ask, until you have redacted the comments that I have kindly asked you to remove. Simple request, just needs you to carry it out, or allow me permission to redact them on your behalf. Then we can proceed to the

1266:

The footnote wording for the map probably needs to be corrected. But the map itself cannot. When Germany won in 1982, despite the fact it was the FR Germany - the exact location of that territory was on the West (pre-reunification) or colloquially known as West Germany. We have shown that in the

11321:

Similarly, I feel for linking adjectives (as Ukraine's national parliament, highest children's literature honor) instead of their specific names (and at this instance, unlike the more known and meaning implied Noble PEACE Prize), as clearly my intention is to use explanatory links, and which are

10895:

With that, SilkTork, I formerly added that the contest "Spawned and inspired other similar events", to reference in general. There are also "Young Musicians", "Dancers", though different from singing, still inspired by Eurovision Song Contest. Also "Sims2aholic8" and another editor further added

10556:

who also add Eastern Europe and West Asia flavor. Eventually, for considerably successful artists, the ratio is/was 5-UK:3-other-individual nationalities, and for composers - 2-UK:1-other. That's also why it can benefit looking at the base of like 10 million sales, and Academy Awards nominations

10354:

It will also interest you to know that Cliff Richard is indeed mentioned in the best-selling article and is claimed to sell 250 million on his article, albeit doesn't have at least 20% certified units to make the list. I didn't find now info on their article, but believe or recall, that Lulu and

9622:

Not a big issue by itself (I wouldn't fail the review just on this, but it would be a contributing factor if there were a number of other such minor issues), but the layout of the images and other media could be tidied up. The guidance is that images are preferred on the right. We used to have a

9493:

Prose is clear and readable. There is a tendency toward long sentences, which can be a little tiring for the reader, and the use of commas is sometimes a bit uncertain (but that's the nature of commas!). There are some short paragraphs which may need attention. But, on the whole, the standard is

8327:

I do understand what you mean about the "international" vs. "primarily European" comparison. I feel that the present wording works a bit better, as I believe it balances between the contest and broadcast elements: as in primarily European participant countries in an international contest that is

8019:

Ireland - I will first say it's much more impressive as all time record, compared to Portugal's "under specific system". But if after you'll think more, you still feel strongly about removing it from the lead, I can be fine with that, from a point of Ireland's record also bound to change, maybe,

8015:

Yep I also started questioning current highest-scoring lead necessity, following your Norway removal, per several voting methods, which come and go. Under "History"/"Winners"/"Format" we can even add all several methods' highest scoring songs / percentage! I also edited/expended info in 1956 ESC

7934:

Also for Ireland, I refer to the actual article - "with seven wins, including four times". I don't know if you still consider here, so I'm pointing again with relation to the actual article. For what I wrote (that "Seven" already indicates "in total victories" and enables shortening and 4 "wins"

7867:

Good call about removing Norway-2009, and I don't think you should bother explaining other highest scorers value here, if you meant for the lead. I questioned Norway's 2009 value, too. I'm with you on that. The current system produced the highest scorer ever anyway, and there were several voting

7769:

Sole Portugal-2017 and Norway-2009 entries links: make an even further flow and tightens to focus on the highlight – the specific entry, as "Portugal's 2017 entry" single link. For my view, there's also no need for additional link to the contests and countries in ESC themselves at this context,

7292:

Pointing of this parenthetical info in a paragraph shaped to focus on the general definition, looks too fringe/alternative; and it's pointed again at the lead's 2nd paragraph anyway, and in the right context of explanations about the length of the contest's existence. Same for "held since 1956",

6863:

I also believe that including the list of participating countries by year of debut in a table is a better way of presenting this information, as it's a lot more visual and gives you a better overview of which countries debuted when, without having to read through a bunch of text to find the same

3482:

of the rules, and again it is out of date. Perhaps we need to work on the rules article, bring it up to date based on the 2015 set of rules; but also write content about all of the rules since the inauguration of the contest in 1956. Do the same procedure for the voting article, bring that up to

2472:

is a threat and a personal attack. Cease now! And I will not agree to this being collapsed, until you have at least complied to my request to have my name redacted from your comments. And you are the one wasting time. You want to hear my opinion on the issue. I have said I will give it, but only

1983:

Yes it is really, and you are now being ignoramus towards another editor at commons who doesn't even know about this discussion right here and now. Would you like me to notify them that you have basically discredited their view and completely ignoring them? I'm sure they would wipe you down the

1539:

Your position is untenable: Even now, you'd have to cover Transnistria and the Crimea, it's likely that others will follow. Are you prepared to keep the map up-to-date with events in Eastern Ukraine? Are you prepared to follow politics in Israel and Cyprus and reflect events on the map? Selfkant

11325:

At "Origins and History" 1st paragraph. It's understandable and I agree with the intention to phrase that everything was rolled from Eurovision Network's first events towards the contest's creation, but it's 4 long sentences and 2 bits, commas, until reaching a dot. As I didn't want nor felt it

11250:

I've had another go at trimming the prose. It's time consuming with small rewards, but can be done. A copy edit to remove duplicate words or phrases such as having both "stemmed from" and "initially" (they mean the same thing in context, so only one is need) or vague and unhelpful words such as

10494:

I started doing some deep research for which I still have some reservations though and would like to take upon your will too, "Sims2aholic8", to discuss this bit further and just 2 additional artists examples. It's some artists checks+comparisons also with record-sales base, but feeling bit ill

10422:

Thanks for the suggestion! I have now expanded the "winning artists" section into what is now "notable artists/songs", with more details on non-winning artists, both unknown before the contest and already well established. I tried to diversify the names as best I can so that they weren't all UK

10399:

So in general, such prominent singers UK sent to Eurovision especially in the 1960s and 1970s, and those French flavor figures alongside possibly other nationalities with such achievers, including composers and writers. I would love to see something like an additional paragraph of few sentences

9923:

For the single copyvio issue, the reasoning behind its inclusion was principally that the official wording from the ITU for the boundaries of the European Broadcasting Area was more succinct and easy to understand than trying to explain it ourselves, hence the use of the quote template. If this

8269:

And I feel an FA reviewer will touch that, more so will say in general that the lead needs more attention to the varied chapters. The current "52 participants"+2 countries records (Ireland, Germany), only touches "Participation"-pointing aspect while neglecting "History", "Format", "Expansion".

8164:

I can see why you'd like to call the contest "principally European", however it conflicts a little in my mind of how the contest is in real life: although the participants are primarily representing European countries, the broadcast of it has been and is worldwide, including the Americas, Asia,

8035:

Best selling - I agree. What I pointed, "Volare" and UK's 1976 "Kisses", was all I meant. :-) I'm quite sure those 2 (maybe 2-3 more ESC songs) managed more than around 5-millions copies sales. That's the standard I based on, similar to the 4 singers mentioned. I thought of even just mentioning

7863:

Thanks for your quick attentions and implementing some of my suggestions, considering my comments, and your fantastic, and dedicated work on the article! Sure I'm discussing just lead stuff here, but would post other potential stuff at page-bottom, and as I have detailed comments for individual

6546:

I thought to wait some more days as I said I would, and, anyway, kept working-thinking. However I'm so-so finished with overall key-factors phrasing-strengths the way I think about this. Furthermore, only today I compared both draft + actual-article to realize you shortened those footnotes and

6218:

There are errors in the names of the spokespersons for the UK jury for 1963, 1964 and possibly 1965. Whoever were the spokespersons, and I can't name them, it was certainly not Nicholas Parsons or Denis Tuohy and I'm pretty certain it wasn't Alistair Burnet. Parsons and Tuohy have exceptionally

3142:

It is self evident that the map should be the same as the map on the German version of this page, ie, showing two wins for Germany and showing 'Germany' within the borders of the Federal Republic as they are now. The map should also represent what the EBU themselves say about their contest, ie,

2609:

Now that aside, I would like to just have something clarified by other editors other than the IP who has clearly demonstrated their intent to be libellous. Am I right in assuming that The reunification process for Germany meant that the then known "East Germany" (Democratic German Republic) was

2105:

Culturally, people living in the GDR regarded themselves as Germans, and they still do. If one of them would disregard Nicole's win because "she only won for Germany, not for the GDR", people would probably look at him funny and back slowly away from him. Culturally and within the legal fiction

623:

That leaves Abba, the only success story I'm aware of, and possibly Bucks Fizz (I barely remember them), who where active for a few years after their ESC success. That's at most two cases out of dozens of winners, second and third places, an abysmal record for a song contest of this popularity.

572:

Whilst there appears to be some truth in your claim, in that Hungary is generally disliked by those countries it ruled over during the Empire period, and from whom it tried to reclaim territory during WW2 (Croatia, Serbia, Cezh, Slovakia, Romania) I do not believe this extends to the many other

519:

The situation is direst for Hungary, which has never received more than 1,000 votes from any foreign country except Poland, due to the many enemies Hungary has. (In the 1920 post-WW1 forced peace treaty of Versailles-Trianon, France was instrumental in curbing away 2/3rd of territory and 50% of

11317:

At the other-fields notable-artists. My coverage is the showcase of honours (for Humanitarian) and as the "acclaimed" and "achievements" intro I made suggests, and as I feel this is a powerful way to express for notability and focus here. The alternative coverage also now leaves Esma Redzepova

11182:

Thanks for your continued help in improving this article, and your suggestions! I have implemented the above suggestions to the "Winners" section. I wanted to make a distinction between artists that had performed during the broadcast in a guest capacity as opposed to those that competed in the

11115:

do a thorough copy edit. Because some FA reviewers only look at one aspect, like, say the images, you may find a reviewer who can be very exacting about the aspect they are looking at. I glance at the details for each image to ensure they have appropriate licensing information - if there is an

10078:

is quite lengthy. There are already two related split off articles. This is clearly an area of some interest, but for the general reader the length and density of that section would likely be off putting. My suggestion here, given that there is clearly a lot of interest and material, is that a

8383:

For the footnotes - Yeah the main thing for me for Germany, is to keep it simple without repeating "in 1990" " in all contest", "but on one contest", so I did manage to achieve that although I also like your version as also keeping clear of repetitions. I did however also did that for a simple

7982:

Going back to "Portugal's 2017 entry", I see what you mean about trying to make things more succinct, but my concern isn't with the links but the actual words: for me it sounds a bit too condensed, as if you're trying to push the sentence in to reduce the amount of words, at the expense of the

7502:

Okay, so that's pretty much all my most detailed thoughts for the lead. I will be happy of course if you want to give feedback and further thoughts for my last wonderment when you can. Now I will just answer to your points and when I understand, shortly, without keeping with more proposals and

7478:

I know my proposal for "transmitted via" the networks was not entirely "cooked", I do still wonder though if we can come up with a way of attaching "Eurovision and Euroradio networks" to the first EBU mention, to explain the name and existence medium of the contest, as part of the very opening

6750:

As I said previously, a lot of what is currently in the "origins and history" section I will most likely move into the History article, so that will be reduced substantially. Sorry I couldn't agree with you more on this. If you have any questions about my comments then please do reply. Thanks,

2781:

Reunified Germany is the legal follower of West and East Germany. Also the membership at the EBU is relevant and that is in both cases (1982 and 2010) the same "company" or broadcast station. All statistics that I know count 2 wins for Germany so why is this different here? I propose to remove

1846:

There is only one way around this that I can think of to date. The winners map has an insert showing Yugoslavia and the then commonly known "East and West Germany's". Would colouring Germany as it stands now as 2 wins, and the Germany in the insert with its 1982 win in the era that Germany was

1497:

only the Federal part won - which in historical geography purpose was only West Germany. In 2010 the landscape of FR Germany was larger, and that is shown in the second map. We have to show political correctness and historical geographical landscapes based on the time period. In this case, the

991:, then I'd be inclined to say that artists has gone onto great success." - Knowledge is not a valid source, and in this case, the metric is almost unconnected to the question. One devoted fan with a talent for writing is enough make an article FA, it says nothing about the overall significance. 10668:

does have rather too many two or one paragraph subsections. The Voting subsection is arguably important enough to warrant its own section. The Broadcasting subsection contains information about the rules, which seems a little dry and trivial, and of dubious interest to the reader of a general

9983:

for showcasing both artistic and political aspects I initially meant together as one sentence; then that stand alone sentences to detail both (which you also back then kept rephrasing at the continuation of that paragraph, and as you see what remained from my original wording came out awkward

8416:

Within the broadcasting lead info - I can also remove specific other countries broadcasting which are anyway pointed the same way under the chapter. This enables a flowing sentences for then also starting with "one of the longest annual running programmes" while the record for "longest annual

7709:

Hey yeah I checked the draft today to think about other stuff and other chapters to talk in the future, and was surprised to see you already implemented and share the same opinion with more of my views as well! I always stay open to that my proposals in themselves can be improved, as with the

7543:

I think it's quite a tricky thing to convey the scope of the contest nowadays, especially since Australia has entered the fold, but even before then with Israel, Morocco and the Caucuses and the different definitions of what counts as Europe. I included "pan-European" in the JESC section as a

2124:

The position that Germany won kind of 1.5 ESCs is unique and bizarre. I live in Germany, and I would have a hard time even explaining Wesley's position; it can literally not expressed in words, as Wesley himself has demonstrated again and again. It is held by a single editor, the overwhelming

1824:

So you repeat your position again, and you again ignore a number of arguments against your position. Let me repeat: What about law? What about custom? What about the fact that your position (and the map you defend) is inconsistent, since it ignores a whole lot of political changes? What about

1803:

I will always like you. Who else would I turn to when I get into technical difficulties with inkscape, lol. But yes, Germany won twice, I agree. But like I point out above, Germany in 2010 was reunified, Germany in 1982 was not. In both eras they are known as FR Germany. But to highlight on a

10544:

career for several artists", and you also pointed in previous comment you included yet-known singers however it only includes already successful ones. So I really think it can do with adding such and anyway in a different sentence which won't clog the already successful list. So also suggest

10535:

And, a suggestion I further thought of yesterday – different sources for certified, minimum & maximum sales estimations, then enables generalization to "dozen/hundred millions sales". This will: 1) Back up from all directions per problematic different publishes with further certified vs.

7547:

Yeah on reflection including the 2020 cancellation in the lead would be considered relevant, and as you say it's finding the right balance of coverage when it will definitely be included further down the article. I'll have to take that one away with me to see how I can include it in the best

6893:

that's okay, really! :-) ! I wasn't sure if sooner or later is easier for you to get feedback and discuss big ideas, I saw advantages and shortages to both myself. Admittedly, I preferred not to wait, also when, hopefully, I may soon go back to work, and when you finish I may precisely would

4312:

Hi there. I couldn't help but notice this edit, which got me thinking. While I think including a year and explicitly saying it doesn't have a slogan is clunky, I also get the feeling that omitting any mention of having no slogan looks like a year was accidentally left out. I would personally

1879:

Still unanswered: What about the position the law has to the nature of Germany? What about custom? What about the fact that your position (and the map you defend) is inconsistent, since it ignores a whole lot of political changes? What about Berlin, Algeria, Transnistria, the Crimea, Israel,

6550:

So that I can keep up and express stuff closer to the right momentum, I realized it will be much easier, for anyone, if I edit the draft which will then show by itself "difference between revisions" (instead of showing ideas alongside erased text here); enable me several edits for different

9522:

Article is neutral, making no unbalanced claims. Considering the popularity, cultural weight, and importance of the competition the coverage and tone is admirably and reassuringly sober. Apart from the length (which I will tackle soon) the article presents as authoritatively encyclopaedic.

8362:

I understand and appreciate you want to highlight the contest worldwide broadcast prestige, it's just to me already greatly highlighted as an external-extra phenomena at the lead's continuation, as well my overall cut-in "EBU" then separately "Network" personal preference problem. But also

6954:

Interesting thought, I'd never heard of this but certainly seems plausible. Most of the sources I have available (the official website, "Songs for Europe") typically mention a fire as the cause, but the language they use is never particularly clear-cut, so it could be one of those cases of

523:

In this situation, the ban on forming mixed-nation bands means some hated countries, like Hungary remain eternal pariahs in ESC and it cannot be helped. Can you imagine a 100 meter sprint race where the winner is determined by national sympathies and grievances, rather than the stopwatch?

439:"I never implied that you had a private conversation with me - where did you get that idea from?" - From this: "Do you normally poke into other's conversations?" and this: "Like you say, this is not the place for a private conversation - so why have you instigated such in various places?" 10407:

Also at this comment's chance, just pointing I thought the "Slogans" table could used being reduced to bullet points, divided to 2-3 columns and eventually didn't get to that section to suggest it on the talk page, but I definitely agree it's just best to move it to the "Hosts" article.

10035:). An argument against splitting would be that this is a very large topic which requires the sort of breadth and depth of coverage that is present. However, there are areas where we can look at content that may be overdetailed for this parent article, and could be moved to sub articles. 3270:

I did check the 2015 rules as well and found pretty much the same thing, so it doesn't really look like the rule changed from 2009. My point is that neither of these rules documents mention anything about the host country being involved in the tie, so I'm questioning whether the clause

7463:

case of "annual" - it catches the essence and purpose of the event's general running procedure as until 2020, and going on from 2021, while "held every year" comes as a somewhat problematic description since in fact it wasn't held every year because of 2020. You understand what I mean?

7824:* Yep I see your point with spelling out the years for Ireland's streak, and that putting just the decade is probably a better fit for the lead; this information is already included in the "Winners" section of the article too to be fair, so we're just repeating ourselves in the lead. 7773:

Pointing points: For those Portugal-2017 & Norway-2009. I thought from a week ago and let that settle with me; still think there's no value by no comparison. The points can be pointed under "Winners" or another chapter – along with next highest ones for an understanding of their

7917:

this paragraph. Same goes for Ireland's victories, you now added the kind of superlative "in the contest's history" (after "most victories"), which is understandable from the context. My opinion in general is to avoid "in the contest" phrases which I see repeating a lot in articles.

827:. There was no need for the sarcastic "whatev" remark. One should assume good faith in people. All I was pointing out is that citations shouldn't even be in the lead anyway. I was not commenting on the issue at hand. But if you wish that I did.... then be prepared for the lashing. 9831: 3301:

If there is a tie between two or more songs when the combined calculation between televotes and National Jury votes is used to determine the final ranking of the songs in the Semi-Finals or in the Final, the song(s) which obtained the most votes from the televotes shall be ranked

3165:

check the top of this talk page, the matter has now been resolved and this RfC has since been closed. The map has now been changed to show the reunified Germany as having 2 wins, whilst keeping Yugoslavia and its only win as a legitimate country at that time in the inserted map.

9841:

within these limits. That is also the reason why for example Israel can take part in the contest. / In addition, Iraq, Jordan and that part of the territory of Syrian Arab Republic, Turkey and Ukraine lying outside the above limits are included in the European Broadcasting Area.

8417:

international music competition" remains at 2nd paragraph after "History" aspect for pointing its run from 1956. So in new 3rd paragraph - start with "one of the longest running", to online broadcast since 2000 and finish in same flow with the overall 100 to 600 million viewers.

6667:

are my edits, next to existing general-touching paragraphs at this chapter for amalgamation consideration. And I returned to the way the draft looks under your last edit. Thanks for all your required attention to my layered somewhat situation-complicating edits and thoughts. :)

6630:

my explanations and linked examples under draft-"Participation", including for your shortened cut-punctuated footnotes. I understand and agree they are more proper for this purpose, but from a paragraph suggestion for both this and the joiners-table, I wanna suggest for another

2109:

The situation is not comparable to the one in Yugoslavia: Germany existed continuously over the entire lifetime of the ESC. To explain the situation with regards to Yugoslavia, I would attempt to use different pattern of the same color along with an explanation to make the map

938:

Celine Dion; have become global superstars since winning Eurovision. Bucks Fizz only became a success across Europe. Then there are participants who have never won, but have still gone on to greater success in their musical careers, such as Cliff Richard and Olivia Newton-John.

8412:

2nd-3rd-4th paragraphs rearrangements with turning them to 2 paragraphs. That's by swapping "active and associate 52 participants...Ireland's wins" info to 2nd paragraph while "one of the longest running programmes...600 million viewers" to the very end. This matches order of

8016:

about percentage assumptions for the winner to the assumed voting method of it! :-) We will also avoid "current"-touch in the lead (even if more of a longer-lasting record). Was afraid raising this to not complicate things. But I support you on removing Portugal from the lead!

7140:

since that would just basically be another peer review in the grand scheme of things, though less helpful since they're only looked at by one reviewer. Some of the GAs we have don't really have FA in their future, but we know want this article to be a Featured Article again.

1724:

didn't take part in 1982. And that is why the map from how I see it, shows the wins based on how Germany looked in 1982, and how it looked in 2010. Unless, if we hatch-colour the west side to show 1 and 2 wins (1982 and 2010), and the east side as only having one win (2010).

11435:

Thanks for the additional feedback. I have expanded the Format section with a full paragraph now explaining the end-to-end contest structure, and included a few more overt references to opening acts in the article. I will take a stab at tidying up the lead in a bit as well.

6605:

one. Glad I catch up with you mainly before serious "Participation" reworking, as the "Expansion" and "History" rub some same angle of "Participation". And, even if you and others agree with me, of course I didn't want to make you rework more than what you already work on...

6345: 3483:

date. Then on this very parent article, just write a brief summary of those two articles, and add a hatnote for people to click and be directed to the respective 'rules' and 'voting' articles, if they so wish to learn more detailed content about them. I see you also joined

10716:, both of which are substantial sections. There is nothing about the Eurovision logo and theme, which has its own subsection. There is nothing about Event weeks, nor Rehearsals and press conferences, nor Receptions and parties, nor about Hosting - indeed, the whole of the 7074:

Lead: "longest-running annual international television contest" - makes it sound like a "television contest" when it's a song contest? Also need to add a brief summary of some of the other sections of the article, such as criticism and controversy, cultural influence, and

3313:

Should two or more songs receive exactly the same rank from a National Jury, the order shall be ascertained by a show of hands by the members of the National Jury. If there is still a tie, the final order shall be decided by the vote of the youngest member of the National

8184:

I also feel trying to get active/associate members into the first paragraph might be a bit "too much, too soon"? We don't want to overwhelm the reader with too much information too early on is my thinking, so I think including a reference in the 3rd paragraph is a better

10708:. That is, in addition to being an introduction, the lead needs to be an adequate overview of the whole of the article. As a rough guide, each major section in the article should be represented with an appropriate summary in the lead. There is nothing in the lead about 9843:

There is a defence that purely factual short descriptions can be awkward to change, like "The Sun rises in the east and sets in the west"; however, that is a lot of text in which the wording is exactly the same, so I'm not sure the short factual defence would apply.

1205:, well after these debates took place. So it would be appreciated if you retracted the accusation that I have taken part in every single debate that took place. I only commented briefly once to a thread that was started in 2010, but my comment was made 4 years later. 8117:

most popular song of the contest? Cause anyway the lead here address their outside success and not popularity within the contest, and as you ordered Julio and Olivia according to descending sales, to me Celine should be first. Great work again, now with Germany! :)

1527:

International law contradicts your position: (The Federal Republic of) Germany is still (the Federal Republic of) Germany. Your quasi-historical construction is followed by nobody, neither in Germany nor elsewhere, neither in politics, law, social life nor culture.

10964:

While checking the copyright status of the images I noted that a few of them had issues, and that there were alternatives available. This is not a GA issue, and it is debatable as to which images are "better", but here are some which I noted, just for information.

9640:

Do we need two similar images in Hosting? Such duplication is discouraged, and the use of the second image pushes into the following section, which is also discouraged. The second of the two images, opening act in Germany, appears the more appropriate image as the

1968:

your position. AGF has limits, and I would consider this slanted reporting to be dishonest. You also fail to tell us that the one editor understanding your position did not so initially. See below, where I state that your map is not explaining the facts in a clear

2194:

comes into strong play with all of that mudslinging. IP91 is forgetting keep in mind that raw text may be ambiguous and often seems ruder than the same words coming from a person standing in front of them. So one should not single out a user, as that is a form of

1869:"I doubt the citizens who lived in the German Democratic Republic, would want to be classified as being part of the Federal Republic of Germany, when FR Germany won in 1982." - Nobody makes that point. I'm pretty sure however that at least some of them felt like 10350:

units sales and above; only Celine, Julio, ABBA, and Olivia managed that. So perhaps the section can extend on artists with dozens of million sales, more specifically at least 10 million certified units (as I think there are many-many artists who managed 1 to 9

8011:

Thank you for understanding, it's not for granted on Knowledge that someone takes so many thoughts and small wording comments always in good spirit. And to know I can keep freely discussing everything and think along with you in fun spirit, so really thank you!

6246:

In a part of spin offs I didn't see any sentence about song contest for youth people held in the middle of 90's broadcasted on the radio. There where just one event (contest). Do you know anything about it? Will you put there a link or if you know about it?

3307:

Should two or more songs receive exactly the same number of televotes in a given country, the results of the National Jury shall be used to determine their respective ranks (i.e. the song having obtained the best rank from the National Jury shall be ranked

11079:

Thanks very much for your input! Per above, I would very much like to call upon you as and when I have made substantial edits over the next couple of days. I would also like to hear your insight on how best to prepare this article following GA review for

8289:

So now I could share my deepest lead-thoughts, what I think we should ask about the common reader, FA reviewer, and my personal ordering preference, with also detailing for healthy communication that I understand if you may still disagree with my current

957:. If people like yourself, were to give backing for a reform, then we'd be one step closer to clearing a hell of a lot of long-running debates, such as this and Germany wins debates. But that of course, is up to you if you are willing to back a reform. 9659:

There are two images in Rehearsals and press conferences, between which some text squeezing is taking place, which is an indicator that there are too many images in that section. Is the image of the performer rehearsing adding much encyclopedic value?

8498:). I think it is a valid point that is covered in the "Expansion" section, and even though Germany has entered every contest they've not participated at every live event, so I think adding that caveat to the lead would be slightly leaning out of scope. 1577: 1080:

Germany is still shown as having won only once. The Germany in Eurovision article has it correctly but this main page has been showing the wrong information for a year at least. I don't have the skills to alter the map but it really does need fixing.

1540:

belonged to the Netherlands when they won 1957, will your map reflect that? Ignoring that, your map is inaccurate: West-Berlin is missing from the map and all lists in Knowledge as the political entity is was until 1989. Are you prepared to fix that?

2866:

After years of discussions over several talk page venues, the consensus reached is to have the map changed to show Germany as having two wins, whilst keeping Yugoslavia in the insert as having one win as a legitimate country in its time of winning.

11403:

I have fiddled with the lead a bit - it can be tidied. I'll take another look later, but at the moment I don't think I'm that concerned about the lead. What is more important is having some mention of the opening acts and the outline of the final.

10573:

Francois Hardy was a fashion icon for the whole 1960s decade, and also one of the pioneers in the French "Ye-Ye" movement, as well as a French Pop icon. I found sources, but for now just point this to comment already. Can also be considered future

2113:

It's hard to find a source that even mentions the "West" in West Germany, most simply assume that Germany has two wins. Most importantly, the result page on the ESC's website lists both wins without qualifier. According to the ESC, Germany has two

10138:

could also be considered for trimming as they are not about the main topic, but related topics. I was looking at them in terms of the Layout section of the MoS criteria, because both sections contain very short sub-sections, which is an issue per

8613:

also after you work it, I only write here, especially if you plan big-complex changes. I will also appreciate if you share, when you know if you plan removing complete sections? To me it's only those further specific following details I mentioned.

11251:"soon" (either put in the dates or leave out the word), and to vary the use of often used words, such as "featured", with a variety of other words, especially shorter ones (such as instead of "featured a scoreboard" put "used a scoreboard"). See 9960:

For the awkward criticism sentence, I've had a go at redrafting this sentence to make it a bit more legible, as well as adding in some extra ideas from the "Criticism" section. Please let me know how this reads, happy to take another go at this.

6770:

I think it makes sense to add everything to this article, then we can break things off into the sub-articles if need be. Pretend they don't exist. I have a feeling there will be a reduction the quantity of offshoot articles at some point anyway.

6081:

The notes for winning artists said to discuss on the talk page before adding anyone. Marija Šerifović built her career after Eurovision, and all of her songs and albums released afterwards were hits, so I think she should be added to the list

1452:

Let me make a suggestion: With the same rigor, change every map of the USA in every context where a part of the events in question happened before Hawaii joined the Union. If you get away with it, I'll happily agree with your line of thinking.

10381:, writing the very first song to perform at Eurovision, considered by historians in the "Canon of Dutch History", mentioned alongside figures as Vincent van Gogh and Anne Frank. I pointed her on the Hebrew Knowledge on the 1956 article myself. 8438:

wins, which is maybe better to be pointed as is already within the chapter/s. All this eventually enables further briefer mention to Germany is competing in all editions, Ireland just pointing its most-7 wins, and perhaps leaving UK or remove.

10181:

I think it's very good. I've just been through it to see what I could do to reduce it further and made some copy edits to reduce a bit of fluff, but essentially I think it's good. I have no problem with that at all. I think you've done well.

8273:

For this, I tried another edit in the article with further general-brief relegation description, which still makes it clear there is a process to accommodate all participants in one year's edition. If you still sees it as also too much, then

3294:

you clearly didn't check the 2015 rules in full then, otherwise you would have got the gist of it all. Per the linked discussion, the wording of the 2015 rules alongside the evidence of the scoreboard published by the EBU, was interpreted as

1493:. There is nothing "anti-fact". On the contrary it is historically geographically factual. If we colour the entire nation of Germany as winning twice, then we are saying in the 1980s the whole of Germany (Federal and Democratic) won; when in 8493:

For the Germany 1996 entry, I would be reticent to include this in the lead, mostly given that the EBU doesn't consider it a proper German entry and it's not included in the participating songs for the country on the Eurovision website (see

7281:

article also point this, as an umbrella for this medium's type broadcasts, so worth mentioning too, also as the current paragraph's continuation points the contest's essence - original songs submitted to be performed on live television and

7188:

Awesome! I wonder if the Peer Review process might be a good idea before FA? That way you could receive some feedback on the article as a whole in terms of completeness, but also some input on what content should be moved to the sub-pages.

7620:

Thanks for your further thoughts about song vs. music - good point about no live music either, just stressing my view stems from competing songs, while instrumental could have always be performed only as side-kicks, for the show's general

6651:

before: 1950s kept classic-Europe with Nordic touch, while early 1960s-1961 both Eastern/double-Iberian expansion, 1970s Mediterranean and double-Asia and 1980s reaching both EBU's western tips. To show two options, still bit unpolished -

9738:, just to explain and see/suggest, as the editor who initially added the criticism paragraph: My intention is two aspects, what you point out as 2 relates to 1, and 4 to 3, though I understand the confusion and thank you for this comment. 6044: 10236:

that groups were first allowed in 1971 - this is not mentioned in our article. Some detail on artist eligibility (solo in 1956, duos also allowed from 1957, groups from 1971) in the Song and artist eligibility section would be useful.

10896:

another sentence before: "Several spin-off contests have since been developed with similar structures, both by the EBU and by other organisations." Although the new line also reads good to me: "the popularity...led to the creation of

1430:

when they say "The fall of the European communism and the German re-unification was the main issue of the songs of the 1990 Eurovision Song Contest in Zagreb". So clearly the EBU do note the fact there was an East and a West Germany.

11334:" which I also raise, as I saw explanatory sentences and wordings at other places and may still be in other places. In any case, this boils down to my intention to help reduce for the final stages of the review, and for reading-flow. 11477: 8489:

Yes I see your point for not including the 67 songs, I reintroduced that mostly to expand that sentence, since by adding UK appearances it felt a little broken off. Removing the UK reference has fixed that so no need to include it

8408:

From above, I like to know what you think for removing the brackets from Germany's footnote as we made simpler more flowing phrasing, and already a sided-footnote form, and to match the other footnotes regularly pointing countries

9920:

would personally use in speech in real life, for that 'Eurovision' is much more common, but I believe it is a fairly common short-hand for documents and also online, particularly when referring to a particular year, e.g. ESC 1974.

8323:

Thanks for your comments above and for your further edits. I've rephrased some of what you added earlier today, and have retained the inclusion of the relegation and semis in the lead as well, which hopefully is a good compromise

7554:

Again I'll have to take this one away on how we include Eurovision network in the lead in the best way. Of course you don't want to have many run-on sentences, but it's a good point re. repeating the same phrases or acronyms in a

7078:

Hosting: Do we need a TBD in the table or can the 2021 row be added when the information is known? The first mention of "Big Five" was in the rehearsals and press conference section. Where else could it be introduced that is more

10892:

rule of thumb, but at least I personally prefer the content of the lead to follow the same order of the sections; especially here as the History lead-paragraph is much more literally-welcoming to the reader rather than the rules.

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sections. I will put the article on hold while the work is done. I'm open to discussions on how best and/or how much work needs to be done. And I'm also willing to help out, or to remain uninvolved as you wish. Just let me know.

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within these limits. In addition, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Georgia and Ukraine and those parts of the territories of Iraq, Jordan and Syrian Arab Republic lying outside the above limits are included in the European Broadcasting Area.

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Thanks again for your comments! I've included a number of them already in the draft over the couple days, especially the COVID reference in the lead. I'll be sure to consider your points when I continue to fill out the article.

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similar events" but to point only one example, of "Junior Eurovision" seems to me of minor value especially following the plural intention of "several", unless pointing 3-4 examples for other contests or something of the sort.

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counterpoint to the Scandinavia-only MGP Nordic, but there may be a case to rather use "international" in the same way as the main contest, given Australia, Kazakhstan and other countries which straddle Europe and Asia compete.

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leaving just the existing summary note of "A number of exceptions to this rule have occurred since, typically when the winning country had already hosted the event in the recent past]] with a link to the moved text in the sub

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warrant relegations? Will they ask themselves "how come all 52 countries participate"; is it all in 1 evening or how else? (As indeed 40+ participate every year). To me trying to think as a reader, the answer to these is yes.

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Back to the 1st paragraph - not entirely sure about the phrasing for the umbrella networks; if it warrants clarifying they signal to countries/areas broadcasters. So overall, this is my proposed presentation for the opening:

1379:. If we grey out "West Germany" in the indented map, then we would be saying that their win in 1982 was part of a reunified Germany - and that would be portraying a fallacy. Look at it another way, let's say that in 1987 the 7332:

I also really like your change to mention these four, indeed strong worldwide notability compared to the current less clear worldwide success selection as Lena for Germany and Dana for Israel. So I support your presentation

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3rd paragraph's EBU members opening. Eventually I decided to edit this into 1st paragraph. And still, 3rd paragraph points the abundantly clear "eligible to participate", after active and associate-"invited" ; = "eligible".

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story which I think is always most interesting and swiping if can be done. Here, there is only one detail-factor (countries joining; and not variable complex details), so I came up with something to feat a paragraph flow.

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in-depth for a casual reader at that stage in the article and are better served by being covered in other sections. I think the history section covers a lot of this as well, so it is covered quite early on in the article.

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I've modified the lead to change the Guinness reference to "longest-running annual international televised music competition", which brings it closer to the actual record, but bit concerned it might be a bit wordy. Any

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I hope this clarifies what my position is on these points, and overall I think your thoughts are really valuable and I'll certainly work to include them. I will certainly be looking for thoughts and contributions from

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it's important information that should be on the article but because it's quite technical in nature I feel that expanding it into a full paragraph would read as a bit bulky and might not perhaps add any further value.

3478:. The tie-break situation on the first two articles do not match up correctly with each other, nor are they up-to-date with the current rules as of 2015. The latter article that is about the rules, doesn't even cover 1448:

I've seen a lot, but this is surely one of the silliest arguments I've seen on Knowledge. The argument to assign only one win to Germany on the map implies that the pre-1989 Germany no longer exists. Need I say more?

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IP91 has repeatedly asked me to respond to their questions, and at present I refuse to do so until they retract or at least apologies for some of the distasteful remarks and the want to requote my own words, as per

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A point of clarity. In our article it is mentioned that ABBA, Celine Dion, and Julio Iglesias performed at Eurovision, but it is not made clear that it is regarded that their careers were launched by the contest.

9626:. Some consistency in the image sizes is also desirable, per our image layout guidelines. We have minor inconsistencies, such as in the Participation section were one image is sized 1.6 while another is sized 1.5. 7474:

The change from "song" to "music competition" - I prefer the first since its more specific as anyone involved (singer, songwriters) are producing music with lyrics and singing, while music covers also instrumental

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The problem we have is there are three articles covering the rules and voting, and not one of them have the tie-break situation covered correctly, in enough detail, or even corresponding with each other. We've got

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That's also like you removed countries for worldwide established artists from the draft's lead now, which I think it's the best in terms of focus and flow! "...notable artists include Abba, Celine Dion..." I like

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So EBU tucked in between international and primarily seems cut-in and as within a dual participants explanation, as well the networks between song and vote; instead of focusing on medium+organizer then countries

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If the tie-break can still not be resolved once all of those conditions have been used, then the country which was earlier in the running order is ranked higher. This final step is also used to resolve any other

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Thank you for the sarcasm. Bravo! I don't need to badmouth you or anyone, as I keep my opinions about people to myself, whether they nice or nasty. If I want to air out dirty laundry, then I'm sure the likes of

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which could be expanded upon in the new article, and a two or three paragraph summary left in this article. Some aspects of the "Political" and geographical voting section could also be incorporated in the new

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board if you wanna keep it outside the lead. And yeah, I forgot to point before that "Volare" and other non-winning songs benefit to be added under chapters. Great work on adding Volare too within the article!!

9768:" as it's general musical nature, also possibly attached to the contest's "kitsch appeal" later at the same paragraph.And there's anyway separate sentence specifying controversies, as withdraws and censorship. 2101:

The Federal Republic of Germany exists without interruptions since 1949. It was enlarged in 1990, but legally, as well as culturally and economically (whether you like it or not), the new Länder are merely an

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talked about that you like to keep as footnotes. So, hope you like that, or slightly tweak if you find even better ways. Anyway, those were almost all the stuff I worked on my computer which I wanted to edit.

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Africa and over the internet, so I think calling the contest a European contest is really limiting its scope. That's why I think the current wording of international contest and European contest works better.

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In the language section, second paragraph. The order doesn't seem right. I think the no rules prior to 1966, but then talking about 1965 right after is confusing. I think you were trying for an introductory

1876:"And you never answered my question either IP91, when I asked if you would consider pushing for a reform in how Project Eurovision operates" - I'm not interested in that topic, I'm interested in the article. 1720: 8421:

as the longest having televised appearance. Or to just say Germany is the only country to participate in all editions and leave its 1996 submission and Uk consecutive appearance for the detailed chapters.

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comes to mind, who was also on the piano on the contest's stage, and was basically nominated to all possible Academy awards in all fields - Oscars, Grammy, Tony and what not... also add my Israeli pride

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Hey, thanks for your edits to the lead! I just wanted to explain my reasoning for bringing back the previous version here, didn't want to just revert back without explaining myself. Hope you understand!

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For the fifth and final time I kindly ask that you retract the remarks that you have personally aimed at me, when we should be aiming at the issue. We discuss issues, not personalities. Such comments as

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after you have redacted the comments that I kindly asked you to remove. So it is you who is wasting time by not doing the simplest of tasks and just remove what it is someone has asked you to remove.

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and redacted comments that are profoundly derogatory and tarnishing my personality in a libellous manner. And cease immediately with the bullying attacks, if you continue I will escalate matters to

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the diffs as evidence? You've gone to almost every thread on various talk pages to debates in which only I have participated in, and then aimed somewhat attacking remarks at myself. Clear hounding.

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won 4 times, twice as a divided Germany, and twice as a reunified Germany" is nonsense; if Scotland had seceded from the UK, would the map be amended to show the remaining UK as having never won?

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Hello! I said anyone else may answer my question and not you. Thanks for showing more signs of your ignoramus mindset. Bloody hell, does one never take notice and comply with requests these days?

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also already famous in 2009 Eurovision, with overall 17 million sales and surely most of them before her "relatively" recent Eurovision, also hugely popular in several countries including Russia.

7245:, thanks for your will and effort, here is my view, which I know some of it relates to the way the lead looks at the actual article for some years now, not necessarily related to your own edits: 6979:

I've now updated the "Archive status" section to include this (another Danish source mentioned that it could've been wiped, so included that report as well). Thoughts on language/structure used?

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be tightened up further, and I'd urge a continuation of copy-editing, but that it is acceptable enough for GA. I would also caution against adding material such that the article goes over 70kb.

8250:-ambivalence. Also it therefore contradicts what you said about describing first as contest and later as television show, precisely since "international" (for broadcast) appears at very opening. 2610:

absorbed into the then known "West Germany" (Federal Republic of Germany), and thus in theory the Federal Republic of Germany "expanded its borders" to become the now known "Reunified Germany"?

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I also took a stab at rewording the "participants" footnotes, hopefully to include a lot of what you saw and wanted to condense down. Again hopefully this works well as a compromise position.

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specific network. Also proposed in the past for each Eurovision event article to introduce both EBU and its network as part of a coherent opening definition instead of a circulated "The 1995

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If on the other hand you thought about removing the first paragraphs which talk about Eurovision-ceremonies and background content - its anyway not relevant to the paragraphs I address here.

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resolution stage and the question I wish to put forward. I have already demonstrated that I can redact unsightly remarks that I may have made, and collapsed huge sections in accordance with

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Maybe one should practice what they preach then. Like you say, this is not the place for a private conversation - so why have you instigated such in various places? Do you get a kick out of

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require community-wide consensus at the correct venue (not sure if ArbCOm or something similar is the place to be heading). And only then would we have something strict to be abiding too.

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thoughts of my own, to step aside and let you wait for others and talk to others now deeply. Thanks again for taking the dawning task on yourself and for all your work in this field! :-)

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Should there be a tie for last-place in a semi-final, or first place in a final, or any other tie-break position, the winner is determined by who received the most 12s, 10s, 8, and so on.

2184:, and that is clearly happening here. Because I, an editor with an opposing viewpoint, is being discredited and eliminated from a discussion. And why single me out in a comment by saying 1752:

person defending your position is yourself. That is almost by itself "consensus". It should at the very least give you pause, and prevent you from pushing through your POV without regard.

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the Federal Republic of Germany still won both times (and still exists today) - and the German Democratic Republic did never enter the ESC at all - the way it is presented is misleading

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I will definitely take a read through again to see where I could expand on summary paragraphs on some sections. Definitely appreciate any more suggestions you have in the coming days!

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That sounds like probably the best plan. I will continue to pretend I have no idea what I'm doing, while actually having no idea what I'm doing. I'm much more of a lurker, talker, and

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request as incorrect for that noticeboard. It is for issues where there are only two editors involved. I see two registered editors and what appear to be at least two IP addresses.

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I believe this sentence is saying that purely instrumental pieces are not allowed as entries in the contest representing a country. They can still be part of the program/show though.

6741:, so I wouldn't recommend it. I don't think bolding should ever be used for more than a few words personally, as otherwise I feel it makes the page look rather "in your face" almost. 2953:

I did it after a private conversation with a fellow Wikipedian this morning. Yes there was a block imposed here, but that does not effect editing at commons. And was there a need to

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Fair point, apologies for overlooking this. I have now added these points to the Origins and history section with relevant refs and would appreciate your view on their reliability.

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You may not like me any more Wes, but I don't have any objections with Germany having 2 wins, since yes the Federal Republic of Germany was West Germany and is the current Germany,

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I have implemented the majority, if not all, of the picture requests above, replacing where necessary with new or cropped examples which should hopefully answer those points above.

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If the article is to look and decide who would be "the greater successors of Eurovision", could in theory be based on the quality level of their respective BLP article. If it is a

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Voting system: "…in place since 2016…" = "previous…between 1975-2015." The 1st can be therefore dropped to be left with "under current", then the previous system period pointing.

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The reason why I ask the question in the subject line is that the broadcast for the two semi-finals and the grand final always opens with an instrumental (i.e. non-vocal) piece.--

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Eventually all above 3 allow attaching Norway-2009 right after Portugal-2017 as both being the highlight here, then describing previous system+its period, for Norway achievement.

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I believe it should specify that these countries have always reached the final in every contest they have participated in. The second sentence is a bit confusing/distracting. --

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The source clearly and directly contradicts what the article says it does. I'm not sure that consensus is needed to change that. Nonetheless, I just asked for further comments.-

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I've been held up on other matters yesterday and today. I am aware of this and will get to it as soon as I have a spare hour or two to read through the article and lead again.

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per 2 paragraphs emphasizing 1950s-1980s slow-joining to 1990s-2010s joining-amount and associate-members "makeover". See also on article, not just on the revisions difference.

10986: 6959:". I'd certainly say we should include this new bit of info on the article, potentially appending the current sentence to include this so that all possibilities are covered. 3953: 2172:

Be civil.. hmm. Bit hard to do when one has just attacked yet again, and not just aimed at myself, but aimed at the general public too. And that is not my view, but fact per

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excellent singer they run. Thus the ESC rules perpetrate a millenia's historical ballast of mutual hatred and are actually detrimental to friendship and unity within Europe.

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this rule of thumb should be inclusive of cases which mention a year/date because they are "a most recent" case "for now". So I personally don't flow with this kind of info.

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contest proper; perhaps I'm reading too much into this, so if you feel it is still rather self-evident without the inclusion of "competing" then happy to take that on too!

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Mostly, as we point 2 specific countries, I don't see why inclusive relegation procedures (even just pointing "relegation" to increasing newcomers) is too much in the lead.

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Yeah that's a good idea! Will do that now this evening and continue to make further tweaks in the meantime, try to incorporate some of the other suggestions I've received.

895:

And again you respond with a personal remark about others, and again one that could easily be applied to yourself. You should simply stop commenting on people's behaviour.-

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And it is common courtesy and obligatory that if an editor has kindly asked you not to do something - in this case I have kindly asked you to stop quoting my text as if to

689:, lead sections are not suppose to contain citations anyway. Lead sections summarise the content written in the main article body, which would contain the said citations. 10888:

Skim-reading the lead details, looks that hosting and rules can be significantly condensed like using "50%-50%" terms or "equal weight" in the vote for juries and public.

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Right, let's aim at the issue: I'm looking forward to your response about the actual issue, the map. For everything else, please find another location, eg. my user page.-

1273:"Germany has won the contest twice, in 1982 and 2010. However, their win in 1982 was during the time of East/West Germany, whilst the win in 2010 was post-reunification" 599:

The lede says: "Winning the Eurovision Song Contest provides an opportunity for the winning artists to capitalise on the surrounding publicity and further their careers"

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https://web.archive.org/20141028034055/http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/lloyd-webber-agrees-to-try-to-write-a-winner-for-eurovision-966380.html

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MoS issues are generally the toughest to meet. Some of the minor MoS issues have been cleaned up as we have gone along, but there are remaining Layout issues regarding

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and was in article. Now that you bring broadcast: I say open-definition is about content, event fill-meaning. International isn't understandable here for airing. Like

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map's indent. When Germany won in 2010, it was a reunified Germany on the map of Europe - again that is shown. The map itself shows the historical factor that Germany

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of the articles, how they should be written, stylised, etc. Reforming how the project should look after its articles will resolve a hell of a lot of issues like this.

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reunified Germany that they won twice, would be saying that in 1982 East Germany was part of FR Germany and also won - and they didn't. East Germany took part in the

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OK fair enough, I shall comment per your request. Firstly, the IP who asked the question made reference to sources in the lead section. I merely pointed out that per

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mentioning such figures, with pointing they were nominated for specific academy awards and (without specifying songs names) like, that they had best selling singles.

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Your imaginary cases are not relevant - Estonia, Latvia, Ukraine and Azerbaijan do not claim to be, and are not legally recognized as successors of the Soviet Union.

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in 1982 a reunified Germany had won, because we would be saying that the German Democratic Republic (East Germany) also participated with their Western counterpart.

1304: 710: 670: 560: 210: 155: 8036:"Volare" and point in the lead it's at the top 10 best selling songs ever (!) I now checked again to refresh my memory, and its supposed to be the 6th best selling 1237:

Finally you ignored my point about the map being of Europe today but you wanting it to reflect the territorial realities of pre-1990. That is the root of all this.

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That's it. And my second+third paragraphs suggestion - for all countries joining by decades - already take care to show the years Serbia and/or Montenegro joined.

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Your suggestion can maybe also be extended to composers and which made impact and nominated to Academy awards (also stage performers in some cases), especially

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Once again, all these points are personal preferences, and happy to discuss further here, and happy to get further views from other users if necessary. Thanks,

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I hope I misunderstand you. You will only bring up your plan to improve the article once I stop being naughty? Please tell me you mean that in a different way.-

1140: 10990: 10197: 10097: 10080: 4171: 2948: 2725: 2667: 2650: 2068: 2020: 2003: 1978: 1951: 1759:"based on what is being said about Germany, would also apply to Serbia." - No, it would not. Yugoslavia does not exist no longer anymore at all. Germany does.- 1509: 1413: 1308: 714: 674: 214: 9933: 3415: 3332:

To simplify it; based on the evidence of the official scoreboard, which ironically provided clarification on how the EBU implement the tie-break conditions...

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winners. And to make some comparison between old times and Hungary at ESC today, well if that was true then Germany would get zero points each year. Regards--

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How is Eurovision used as an outlet for political expression and how has it shaped modern politics in Europe? These would be some good questions to address.

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https://web.archive.org/20071122210407/http://www.b92.net:80/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=05&dd=13&nav_category=113&nav_id=41193

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Cool. I'll take a look later today, and let you know. I have been keeping a loose eye on things, and have noted that you and אומנות have been working hard.

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Are there sources reporting on this? It certainly may be relevant for wikipedia, but it's not something we can state without relevant and reliable sources.

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a factual lie. We couldn't highlight both as twice, as that would make people think "West Germany" won twice and the reunified Germany also winning twice.

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than once - meaning Iceland 2010 and Bulgaria 2016 would include French and Bulgarian, respectively - but not just a word, so not Cyprus 2018. Thoughts? -

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As the rule states "the same procedure shall be used to resolve any other ties", then it would imply any tie-break, whether it be for 1st, 10th, or last.

1471:

the map is simply not true, the Federal Republic of Germany won twice not once, that is a fact - why is this page so anti-fact? 07:52, 25 May 2015 (UTC)

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Algeria in the map should be considered "Competed as a part of another country, but never as a sovereign country", as it was part of France until 1962.

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Final stuff I wanna discuss, for the current lead, which I thought of already how can be added and would love to edit but like to know if you see feat.

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Yes that's a good point you raised about "held every year" vs. "annual" etc. I'll take a re-read of the lead to see if there's a way of streamlining it.

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Celine Dion is Canadian, Katrina Leskanich is American, etc. There are no rules to state the singer has to be from the country the are representing. --

4287: 4129: 3892: 10464:, so he certainly didn't shy away from the deep stuff either! I've now added a brief mention covering some well-known competing songwriters, alongside 10063: 10051: 8254:& radio, transmitted to broadcasters via…", also reads somewhat tangled & repeats "countries' "songs"/"EBU's" we both expressed we wanna avoid. 6504: 3756: 3502: 402:

article, half of the discussions were started by myself. Do you think that you are the spokesperson for this article, and that everything concerns you?

11413: 10821: 10807: 10742: 10337: 10269: 10153: 9889: 9875: 9405: 9050: 6199: 3612: 3219: 2045:, which again is not permitted. Your repetitive use of telling me to AGF is in fact bad faith on your part. One needs to remember that we are also to 1919:"that small map at the top right with the country borders before the German re-unification and the splitting of Yugoslavia indicates their first wins" 1059: 6925: 6089: 1825:

Algeria, Transnistria, the Crimea, Israel, Selfkant, Cyprus? What about the consensus here and elsewhere? Can you please respond to these arguments?-

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to follow. I feel these are in themselves distinction and context, and this addition therefore repeats the semis explanation. Also repetitions of "

9199: 9132: 7895:" which is implied already. Even just linking "Amar pelos dois" instead! The "Portugal's" attachment-phrasing is anyway left under current version. 7303:

international...". + "international" and "primarily European countries" can get accurate and amalgamated with the first replaced by "pan-European".

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What you wrote works, though it needs a quick copy edit. The first sentence makes it seem like the television sets were lost over time though lol.

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estimated complexity; 2) Simplify for most focal intention here – the huge success; 3) Thus reduce words for FA criteria you wanna evaluate later.

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those two illustrations, as I tried my best describing what I mean on the comment above and on the edit summaries, sorry it didn't come out clear.

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Thanks very much! It's been hard work but feels really amazing to see the progress I've in the past 2 weeks! Comments on your suggestions below:

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suggestions visuals; revert myself to keep the draft intact; and linking those here with small shorter explanations here. Is that okay with you?

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a more high-level overview for the main page? Either that or I think the history article could easily be merged with the winners article and the

6055: 2771: 2469: 2049:- like the AAGF guideline states, if an editor constantly reminds others to assume good faith, is in fact a bad faith tactic which falls foul of 644: 279:

Keep it civil and don't accuse other editors of fictional wrongdoings. What in "Please don't mix up sections." do you consider to be aggressive?-

9753:" Enables further clarity and further lead-specification to what the musical-"Criticism" section details. In turn, then, one sentence for the: " 8745: 2227:

Please use my user page and/or Knowledge's dispute resolution processes for any complaint about my behaviour. Here, they are just a distraction.

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The sources are appropriate and reliable. Though I suspect Varsity took its information from Knowledge, as the wording is the same as found in

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This looks amazing! I really appreciate all the effort you've put into it! I've gotten about half way through and have the following comments:

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So no hounding at all, and frankly I'm starting to get fed up with your personal attacks. Be civil and focus on the article, not on my person.-

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Doh! I was only looking at Earwig's CopyVio tool - I didn't notice that it was a quote! I see, though, that you've now tidied that up anyway.

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Unless someone can find a reason to keep it, I propose to cut this section down to Abba, and possibly a mention of the fact that publicity is

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members once I've completed all sections of the article! Of course in the meantime if you have anything further, then please do let me know!

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Again, you did not address the bulk of the arguments. As it stands right now, your position contradicts sources, law, custom and consensus.

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The rest of your argument seems to be that I am an IP and thus wrong by default. Your prejudice is noted, but it does not really hold water.

976:"Well, some could argue that they do, some would argue they don't. But wouldn't that be down to personal judgement" - No, it would not. The 11120:

to be helpful, though - as with GA and FA reviews, the quality and usefulness of those vary according to who (if anyone) gets involved. If

11017:) 15:47, 16 March 2021 (UTC) Here's an example of the image of Assia cropped, cleaned up, resized, and put in the article without forcing: 8967: 7884: 6309: 4017: 4007: 2802: 1914: 1694:

said that the SFR Yugoslavia "ceased to exist", and thus the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia had to apply for all its memberships again. --

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was no longer required to be live. Perhaps: "Until 1972 the backing music had to be performed live (Corry Brokken at the 1958 contest)".

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Definitely if there's anything else you'd like to comment on then please go ahead! (Might be easiest for other sections to put it in the

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to see over there the COVID19 reference. I leave it for you to consider, if you want to further take a look at my suggestion above. :)

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walls in disgust. Anyway, as I have told you before, I will point-blank refuse to engage in your request, until you have complied with

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Thanks again for your great insights! I've gone ahead and included a bunch of them already, as I do agree with you on a lot of these.

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national-Italian Sanremo, east-European 1993-relegation; despite other countries stations + web-streams, which is anyway beneath as –

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history" section too, but given my thought on cutting and shifting a lot of the contests there into the "History" article perhaps not.

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Agreed, either option is fine with me. I'm sure something like this has been tried before? My suggestion would be a merger of the two:

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the song performed earliest in the running order is declared the winner, unless the host country performed first in the running order.

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You are all over the place calling people uncivil while threating to give them "a lashing". Maybe you should reconsider that position.

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When you have quite finished being so distasteful, disrespectful, and slanderous to my name - perhaps you might like to check what is

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Thanks for taking this on! I've made some comments on your suggestions below. Please reach out if there's anything more you require.

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Vauxhall's source is not merely an article, it's the result table, and it says: "Germany - Victories - Lena in 2010 - Nicole in 1982"

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I'm happy. Please keep on working on the article, but looking at what you have done, I am now happy to list this as a Good Article.

7617:". As the scheduled 2021-and-on leaves out only 2020, the "until 2019" seems unneeded "full stop" impression, at the actual article. 7598:

Yeah I think the solution for 2020 cancellation's already lies at the actual article 2nd paragraph opening, but perhaps like this: "

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/music/news/lloyd-webber-agrees-to-try-to-write-a-winner-for-eurovision-966380.html

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nuclear bombs - did not do as well as Germany's, however It received no points at all." Again, no mention at all of West-Germany.

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is too closely cropped, giving it an awkward narrow appearance, and we have a background figure with half their head missing -

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The status is only 3 name-shifting countries - Germany, Yugoslavia, North Macedonia and maybe Australia here too, according and

2029:? Feel free to redact your comments that I have asked to be redacted, then I shall engage. Your repeated attempts to tell me to 9152: 8226:

I will explain my overall lead approach so maybe we agree on some aspects and come up with slight different ways, if possible.

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to be re-written to summarise the article. If not, then the article body that relates to the lead summary needs to be improved.

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not only did the German Democratic Republic never enter the ESC it was never a member of the EBU 16:51, 7 January 2015 (UTC)

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is certainly an important and interesting aspect of Eurovision - that is another area where a sub article could be created -

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Oh I didn't know I can even put the comment right under a specific pointer, thank you for the move and your welcoming reply.

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I think you will find that all the "periodical thrashing about" took place between 2006 and 2010. I only joined Knowledge on

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point this out as I think I recall it's checked at the most strict standards, as for the will to later promote this for FA.

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My suggestion is to combine together the concerns regarding Focus, Layout (oversection), and Lead, and to first tackle the

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Focus. Article is 65kb, though that is acceptable for the nature of the subject, and no section goes into excessive detail.

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natural flow. Again this is just my opinion, but I feel "Portugal's entry at the 2017 contest" just sounds better to my ear.

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http://www.webcitation.org/5iLzAiOSQ?url=http://www.ria.gov.ie/filestore/publications/English-CORK-_Millstreet-FINALISED.pdf

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The lead can be a good base point for including other more very successful artists under the detailed section, as based on

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I reformatted the Germany footnote, please do feel free to take a stab as well if you see any further room for improvement.

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Thanks again for your contributions, this is definitely the kind of thing that will help the article get back to the best!

6928:? Clearly you have more sources at your disposal than I right now, so it might be worth checking out some of these claims. 6812:"...reconstituted itself as Serbia and Montenegro and finally dissolved to the two separate states: Serbia and Montenegro". 6250: 3475: 2890:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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Not really, no. I listed the numerous problems with your position below. Feel free to engange them whenever you are ready.-

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clearly a reform is in need to happen, so that everyone is clear on how to operate, in accordance of course with Knowledge

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comment on the issue at hand, as it is right now nobody contradicted the position that the lede should be changed. Do you?-

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artists. I would be quite interested to hear thoughts on its length currently, and whether there's any scope for changes.

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case you still prefer to present some of this stuff here and didn't think yet how to present them at the history article.

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How can be Eurovision the longest running song contest AND be based on "Festival di San Remo" that's still running also?

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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

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ignored on the scoreboard, and thought it strange enough to ask. But, in general, you do seem to know what you're doing.

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Congratulations on digging yourself a grave. Going through someone's contributions in order to dig up dirt, is bad faith

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through the years, according to this general article. Here is what I meant for reinserting more to these 1st paragraph:

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https://web.archive.org/web/20130611090959/http://escxtra.com/2013/06/archive-to-be-opened-in-time-for-60th-anniversary/

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I'm pretty sure there are more European competitions besides the Eurovision Song Contest. What would you think of a new

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is the same broadcaster, and based on the reason I gave above about Yugoslavia, FR Germany retained its memberships. --

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Over 13 million West Germans watched Nicole's victory on television and her winning song became a hit in all over Europe

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Over 13 million West Germans watched Nicole's victory on television and her winning song became a hit in all over Europe

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If the tie-break can still not be resolved, it falls to the youngest member of the jury to decide who is ranked higher.

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You are not forced to discuss the actual problems with the article, but if you don't, again, please use other venues.

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Hypothetical speak. No aggression intended. Sheesh, did someone get out of the wrong side of their bed this morning?

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I went ahead and changed it, no reason to keep something in the article that is directly contradicted by the source.-

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is one of a number of alternatives which clearly shows the trophy, but in a more natural and encyclopaedic setting.

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Agreed that the 2021 slogan "TBD" entry isn't needed at this moment, and can be added in again when it is announced.

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Seeing as my request to have redacted personalised remarks that tarnish me have been rejected, then I have followed

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Thanks for pointing that out! It was also covered in the EBU press release but I have now added a further ref from

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http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=05&dd=13&nav_category=113&nav_id=41193

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Those two are the only issues I have with broad coverage. Both are fairly minor compared to the overall coverage.

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divided pre-1990, and also shows Germany as unified post-fall of the Berlin wall. Maybe the footnote should read

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The second sentence listing the types of rules is too long to understand. I kept thinking I reached the "final"

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broadcast worldwide. That and I feel even just "Eurovision" as a name would give most readers a sense that it's

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Thanks again for your contributions, and of course feel free to continue to chip in to where you feel relevant.

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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Wesley has so far made no attempt to explain why Germany's situation is different enough to warrant a map inset.

1364:. The map itself shows both of Germany's wins. However, it also makes note of the fact that the win in 1982 was 705:

Whatev, the same content does not belong in the lede or anywhere else in the article, since it's not happening.-

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Where in heaven do you get the idea that I hound you? Where is that private conversation you are talking about?-

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appears confused and messy as it's a clumsy crop with part of a man's beard and collar floating in top right -

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and to popularize the genre. Saw some articles yesterday, can post later if you want. So another future-famous.

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term has a more complex/several meaning/s and can confuse the reader, I understand your preference to avoid it.

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It has only just dawned on me as to what you mean. Apologies, it is past 6am, and I've still had no sleep yet.

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The contest has received criticism for it's artistic quality and claims for geopolitical element in the voting

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purpose just for getting ideas onto the page, so I'll definitely work on this further when it's all separated.

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Please do reach out if you have any other questions, and please feel free to edit the article as you see fit;

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their songs names aren't mentioned. And such shortenings in other places will also further reduce the words.

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article (his winning song from 1965) and you'll see you're that not far off! He also wrote two others, about

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from before the Varsity article was published ;-) - is there another source which talks about non-sporting?

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article. Maybe this is something to post on the WikiProject talk page and see if there's a wider consensus?

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in the Eurovision Song Contest" articles' contestant lists. At the moment, that would look like as follows:

1744:(ec) First of all, why do you think that consensus can only come from ArbCom? In the discussion here and in 375:

that this is not the place to have a private conversation. As for the hounding, do I really need to provide

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Each participating country submits an original song to be performed on live television and radio, then..."

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my comments. Pity that you cannot do the same, even when I've kindly asked you to do so several times now.

2011:

I listed the numerous problems with your position below. Feel free to engange them whenever you are ready.-

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Conchita Wurst is (still) the current winner, let's see whether or not she is forgotten after the next ESC.

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This is not the place to have a private conversation. It would be more useful to address the point I made.-

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See my last 3 edits - "management", 3rd paragraph proposals, and self revert of for the last. Thanks! :-)

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https://web.archive.org/web/20090518200559/http://www.eurovision.tv/page/history/by-year/contest?event=157

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https://web.archive.org/web/20110605061122/http://www.eurovision.tv/page/history/by-year/contest?event=290

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Selfkant, Cyprus? What about the consensus here and elsewhere? Can you please respond to these arguments?-

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and regarding highlighting pyrotechnics, choreographs and accessories when compared to singing qualities.

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This looks like a big fat case of POV-pushing OR to me, done by a special interest group. Get rid of it.-

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Focus/Article size. At 89kb the article is at the sort of length where we would consider splitting (see

7883:"Portugal's 2017 entry" - Do you mean feels bit clunky cause all 3 words linked? Cause we can link just 4253:

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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https://web.archive.org/web/20141111173206/http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=1893&voter=GE

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https://web.archive.org/web/20141126111421/http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=1883&voter=MD

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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remains an issue I'm happy to draft my own wording to describe the boundaries in more simple language.

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Song vs. music is a good point, especially since no live music has been used now for a number of years.

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for example. I don't have a proposal at the moment, but the amount of overlap I see is pretty intense.

4158:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 3982:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 3787:. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit 3128: 573:

European countries who vote in ESC. Thus I cannot believe the issue is as influential as you suggest.

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As noted, the contest hasn't taken place yet - don't be counting chickens until the eggs have hatched.

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definitely if you have ideas for sections where I'm mostly finished I'd definitely like to hear them!

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All comments are welcome and helpful. I have moved your comment so it comes directly after my query.

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since 1956 (with the exception of 2020), with participants representing primarily European countries.

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consensus here and on the map's talk page is to change the map to plainly assign two wins to Germany.

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noticing this. Also wanted to say about "Poupée de cire", quite naughty; further - Gainsburg's duet

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I don't think it is a great solution, but I find it works better than what we have now. Opinions? —

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Validation and observation also might not need to be in this article and just in the Rules article.

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need to also point "since 2016", if only current system highest-scorer is introduced? For example:

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Map of winners of the Eurovision Song Contest that dispayed West Germany and Yugoslavia in hatches.

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longest-running television programmes") is not, and that part is not sourced either. I checked on

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or a sub-article created). Hopefully I should be done with the review in the next couple of days.

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Earwig's CopyVio tool has thrown up this concern of copyvio from the official Eurovision website:

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high, and any concerns are minor and a matter of opinion and can be sorted out during the review.

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France Gall is a french singer. How is it possible that she represented the Luxembourg in 1965 ?

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If the tie-break is still unresolved, they then resolve it by a show of hands by the jury members.

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Consider moving the table after "Each slogan used in the contest since 2002 is listed below:" in

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https://web.archive.org/20080518160711/http://www.eurovision.tv:80/page/news/belgrade-2008?id=587

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One is suppose to allow reasonable time to elapse first. That is how building a consensus works.

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Nice try, but they'd have to win Eurovision 2015 first in order to be host of the 2016 contest.

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There is a fair amount of work to be done to get the article to comply with the requirements of

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A separate issue. I then looked for already famous artists who performed at Eurovision, such as

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someday, and by that touching "current". So these 2 sides consideration maybe help you decide...

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Do you see any need to reduce the amount of sub-articles? We have history, winners, rules, etc.

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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per your suggestion above, and reduced the corresponding section in this article considerably.

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additional lead scope. So "international"+"Primarily European" opening reads as "participants"

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Can you please respond to these arguments, instead of repeating your position again and again?

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eurovision song contest 2016 host Greece eurovision song contest 2015 winner Greece in Vienna

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have too many subsections drawing attention to rather minor largely off-topic issues such as

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against the libellous comments. Something that the policy states I am within my right to do.

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Remove/redact the remarks first that I have pointed out and have kindly asked you to remove.

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You should have taken that cool-off break. Your reaction is over the top. Please reconsider.-

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where best to focus, as I've read through the review and I believe I've covered everything.

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added the Junior Eurovision bit, still will be shorter than the current 2nd rules-paragraph.

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I couldn't find "the world's most watched non-sporting events every year" in the main body.

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On the other hand, I can also suggest one sentence for my intended two aspects, like this: "

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too, Bonnie Tyler also nominated for three Brit Awards and three Grammy Awards! I also add

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https://web.archive.org/web/20060204201731/http://www.ukraine-observer.com/articles/208/655

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CT Cooper, since you had former dealings with Wesley, I politely but explicitly ask you to

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image is blurry and poor quality - it is difficult to understand who is on stage and why.

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other - purely for the fact Austria performed 14th and Germany 17th in the running order.

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If there is a tie, the resolve the situation based on who received the most by televoting.

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has also agreed with the same view and understands what has happened here. They note that

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Of course I said that this is not the place, but my question was where I had one with you.

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To date the contest has changed its voting method eight times. Under the current system,

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No indications of original research. Article remains faithful to those sources checked.

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Ties for first place might not need to be in this article and just in the Rules article.

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Yugoslavia won, but is no longer on the map - that is special situation. Germany is not.

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is perhaps too wide - but a crop in between the two images might be more satisfactory.

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still, can't get to finish working on yet. In the meantime, wanted to respond and ask.

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Please do add any further comments you may have, happy to accommodate where I can. :-)

7155:

That's good to hear! I'll move the article over to the mainspace now, attempt to get a

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than one who actually makes big changes, but that's usually still helpful, hopefully. —

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It is also already obvious that the situation will get more complicated in the future."

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this debate gets thrashed out periodically as can be found in the number of threads at

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Is there an agreed convention on when to include a language in the 'Languages column'?

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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which is for any event that takes place in Europe and not European-wide competitions.

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

3658:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If the tie-break is unresolved, they then base it on who received the most jury votes.

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are; I am also prepared to help out on making the changes if agreed they need doing.

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And please don't kill me... again what you did is great to me too but in regards to "

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Hope this explains my thoughts better. Please to shout if you have any questions. :)

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https://web.archive.org/20080609225517/http://www.esctoday.com:80/news/read/12068?rss

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The map is also not doing its job of explaining a simple set of facts in a clear way.

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What reform are you talking about? This is about the article, not about the project.-

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section and its subsections is not adequately covered in the lead. The bulk of the

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Try to condense the 3rd and 4th paragraphs of the presentation of the votes section.

2454:

Please take a step back and look at what you are doing here. Stop wasting our time.-

2274:

Until then, I'm looking forward to your response about the actual question at hand.-

1422:

Also the Eurovision website picks up on the point that in 1982 it was West Germany.

1355:(the German Democratic Republic) did not compete. Germany has won two contests, in 606:

Domenico Modugno made third place. I never heard of the man, and no source is given.

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technically, my main reservation leans on that "international" at the very opening

7880:(so without "since 2016", and gave 8 as an example, didn't check how many methods). 4185: 4176:

http://www.ria.gov.ie/filestore/publications/English-CORK-_Millstreet-FINALISED.pdf

4002:

http://www.ria.gov.ie/filestore/publications/English-CORK-_Millstreet-FINALISED.pdf

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Yes, that what others and myself have explained several times now, and that's what

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The short sections have been tidied up, so there is no longer a concern regarding

8486:"controversies" section, so please do add another paragraph if you feel up for it. 2936:

I don't think that a poll is appropriate, it should really be about the arguments.

1275:(and we would be able to link to the article for those who did not know about the 11058: 10932: 10681: 10645: 10140: 8737: 7407: 6148: 6072: 4155: 3979: 3784: 3564: 3550: 3513: 2825: 2173: 2050: 2038: 2034: 2026: 1687: 1490: 1328:

From October 1990 to present day, the Federal Republic of Germany looks like this

823: 333: 253: 10557:(mainly US but perhaps others), enabling reference to future successful artists: 2782:

Western Germany and set the count of the current German borders to 2 instead 1.

46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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I am unable to find primary sources from Eurovision themselves at this time. -

7346:"The Eurovision Song Contest (French: Concours Eurovision de la chanson) is an 6305: 6270: 3748: 3092: 2682: 2046: 1596:

So your version of "civility" is calling my statements "shear evil aggression"?

10091:(just the leads from each article should be sufficient), plus the entirely of 7899:

this song (without Norway-2009), it's worth pointing and link the song's name.

4222:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 4064:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 3827:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 3582: 2093:

It's getting a bit too fuzzy, so I will try to summarize my current position.

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songs) and then a television show (via the networks) I think also works best.

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http://escxtra.com/2013/06/archive-to-be-opened-in-time-for-60th-anniversary/

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means of dismissing or discrediting overall views. We certainly shouldn't be

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Celine Dion is working out of North America, where the ESC is mostly unknown.

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still support without pointing singer/songwriters for those under a chapter.

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There is an ongoing debate about the way Germany is represented on the map,

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Adding to the above. Given that the article is quite lengthy, the sections

9764:" or something similar. In turn, that enables a stand-alone sentence for: " 9002:. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review. 8825: 7943:

minded as yourself do this and I can advice and express from the side. :-)

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Shouldn't Greenland be coloured in with the rest of Denmark on these maps?

2759: 2600: 2317: 2054: 1352: 1344: 988: 954: 942: 10367:, on the merits of US achievements on music charts and Grammy nominee. :-) 8851:

At 88 kB (14390 words) of text, the article is well above the recommended

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https://eurovisionworld.com/esc/eurovision-2016-voting-order-spokespersons

7299:

which leads to pointing the cancelled 2020. Also redundant, after the "an

1571:(from the EBU). And again they make reference to the East/West Germany in 948:

There is a lot to be changed though, not just here, but across the entire

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OK you are refusing to redact comments, leaving me with no other choice.

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Talk:List of entries in the Eurovision Song Contest § Splitting proposal

11480:

Talk:List of entries in the Eurovision Song Contest § Splitting proposal

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

2823:

me because I can inactive at this Knowledge (I came from Russian WP). ←

2539:. Are you able to reciprocate the civil gesture and redact remarks too? 2309:

are aimed directly at my personality and not at the matter at hand. Per

10993:

could be cropped to remove the distracting blurred head at the bottom.

9708: 9703:"The contest has received criticism for its artistic quality, spanning 8084:

include records like highest scoring winners elsewhere in the article.

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your map (but not necessarily supports it over the alternative), while

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Between 1956 and 1990, the Federal Republic of Germany looked like this

945:, then I'd be inclined to say that artists has gone onto great success. 507:

Criticism and controversy of the historical hatred perpetration aspect.

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An editor has reviewed this edit and fixed any errors that were found.

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question. The same procedure shall be used to resolve any other ties."

1956:

I just paid a visit to Commons. You failed to tell us that one editor

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come after a victory, the opposite of what the article currently says.

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Review on hold for an initial seven days to allow concerns regarding

10999:

File:Ksenia Sitnik at the 2005 Junior Eurovision Song Contest (2).jpg

10553: 10364: 6301: 5922: 5344: 4773: 3143:'Germany' (not 'West Germany' or 'Reunified Germany') has won twice. 9076: 6393:

Correction of footnote re how Germany was presented at past contests

10798:, as I thought it might be listed there with a cite, but it's not. 10100:

article, and perhaps that section reduced a little in this article.

7818:

Thanks! And I appreciate your comments once again! Responses below:

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I rebutted yours, see above. I'm looking forward to your response!-

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First, the issue is independent of the location within the article.

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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

1715:. What do we do about Germany though? For the moment, people want 1233:

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/history/by-country/country?country=9

11525:

Why on earth is the LGBT section in the controversial section???

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What about song contest for youth people from the middle of 90's?

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Some sources are named, but overall the claim is highly dubious:

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Was my remark inaccurate? In that case I would gladly remove it.

9465:

Has an appropriate reference section. (This is always a pass!)

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relates to this Eurovision song. And "Save Your Kisses for Me".

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Cancelled 2020-event at the 1st paragraph, on the other hand -

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http://www.avwoman.co.uk/aview/eurovision/scoreboard/index.html

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http://www.eurovision.tv/page/history/by-year/contest?event=157

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http://www.eurovision.tv/page/history/by-year/contest?event=290

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Thankfully, we have the correct map now, Wes fixed it himself.-

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to the remarks that I feel to be defamatory to my personality.

2106:

common in West Germany, Nicole won for the entirety of Germany.

1808:

during the time that Germany was split into "West" and "East".

10987:

File:Calls for boycott Eurovision Song Contest 2019 (crop).jpg

10935:. There is just the lead to look at now, and then we're done. 9755:

geopolitical element revolving around the varying relations...

7084:

I plan to continue reading through within the next day or so.

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Yeah, reading back on it I see what you mean lol! Will fix :)

4200:

http://www.eurovisionaustria.com/blog/eurovisions-diamond-day/

10985:

contains a lot of irrelevant detail - I have created a crop:

6655:; my least favorite but still replaces table+flag-icons. And 5422:

But over all I think that it would be an improvement to have

4022:

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=1893&voter=GE

4012:

http://www.eurovision.tv/page/results?event=1883&voter=MD

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Perhaps one sentence describing the artistic criticism as: "

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https://eurovisionary.com/voting-order-for-grand-final-2017/

3622:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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unless the host country performed first in the running order

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Too bad that you couldn't badmouth me without interference.-

1426:. And again they make reference to the East/West Germany in 10704:

guidelines, the article needs to comply with the advice in

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Armenia–Azerbaijan relations in the Eurovision Song Contest

9537:

Article is liberally cited to a range of reliable sources.

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differences but it's how my mind/ear works in any case. :)

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it's been really helpful and great working with you again!

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Feel free to engage my arguments as soon as you are ready.-

190:

Needed updating regarding Australia being invited to join.

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Lead. To meet GA criteria 1(b), which relates to specific

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some article changes due to the GA review itself anyway).

4162:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

3986:

for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

2301:

I would have a hard time even explaining Wesley's position

2031:"feel free to engage with your points whenever I am ready" 9747:

to the span and mix of mainstream and ethnic music styles

7174:

On reflection, will put forward for FA when I'm back! :)

3237:

that was in the 2009 set of rules. They changed again in

635:

gained except for a very short time (as the source says).

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Also extremely prominent figures in the French Canon -

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Eurovision_Song_Contest#Rehearsals_and_press_conferences

8234:"Primarily European" – as we grasped few outside-Europe 4313:

recommend that we use a similar feature to that in the "

3112:

Show 2 victories, or 1.5 victories, or something else.

1636:

Where is the consensus that you speak of? I see none at

843:"Prepared for the lashing" is non-aggressive and civil?- 10983:

File:Calls for boycott Eurovision Song Contest 2019.jpg

10089:

Russia–Ukraine relations in the Eurovision Song Contest

7293:

which repeats, at the same context, same 2nd paragraph.

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http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news/belgrade-2008?id=587

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I have just added archive links to 4 external links on

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from intervening. An ANI is already on the way anyway.-

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So, any comment on this or should I proceed to fix it?-

10991:

File:Eurovision Song Contest 1980 - Johnny Logan 4.jpg

10373:

has one of the all-time best-selling singles, I think

10098:

Political controversies in the Eurovision Song Contest

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Political controversies in the Eurovision Song Contest

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systems with other points percentages records, anyway.

7595:

Thank you for the further considerations cooperation!

6957:

if someone says something enough times it becomes fact

6831:

from my part and hope my suggestions are clearer now.

3243:

Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 2015/Archive 6#Last place

2899:. Please let us know what you think about the matter. 1686:(and then Serbia and Montenegro) did apply to be the " 1263:

before attacking myself with such disgusting comments.

878:

love the soapbox". It is not meant in a negative way.

2596:

process and applied the correct procedure and placed

2230:

I'm looking forward to your response to my position.-

2192:

Knowledge:Etiquette#Principles of Knowledge etiquette

10796:

List of longest-running television shows by category

9771:

So I leave this for both your consideration, and if

9766:

The contest spans mainstream and ethnic music styles

7321:, as well as the two representatives Julio Iglesias 9866:That's the only copyvio issue that I could detect. 7834:to make it easier to see everything at once! :-) ) 4226:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 4068:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 3996:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio2/eurovision/2003/history

3831:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2133:

So far, so good. Now please respond, and be civil.-

10684:, some cleaning up of short sections is required. 10396:prominent all over the world in the Chanson style. 10064:List of host cities of the Eurovision Song Contest 10052:List of host cities of the Eurovision Song Contest 9565:Images and captions are relevant and appropriate. 7876:adding up points from the public and the juries(?) 6578:if we move a lot of what is there into the actual 3326:procedure shall be used to resolve any other ties. 2395:And so does mine. At least I can be courteous and 10060:Eurovision_Song_Contest#Eurovision_logo_and_theme 9979:I think "Criticism" looks well, with that thanks 7864:chapters, will put under individual headers. :-) 7314:Notable artists; overall, I object parenthesis - 1532:denies that Germany is Germany, except you. From 293:Do you normally poke into other's conversations? 10981:is a cleaner, more naturally proportioned crop. 10232:Broad coverage. In my wider reading I note from 10110:, with the section here reduced perhaps by half. 8625:inappropriate English, that's a different case. 4186:http://www.ukraine-observer.com/articles/208/655 3928:Could somebody go ahead and create/populate it? 2846:RFC: Representation of Germany's Wins in the Map 2305:Wesley himself has demonstrated again and again. 10997:is perhaps a little too cropped - the original 10093:Eurovision_Song_Contest#Political_controversies 10076:Eurovision_Song_Contest#Political_controversies 9479:Images are all appropriately copyright tagged. 7761:3rd paragraph, best scores and number of wins: 7379:Thanks for your draft, and for your attention. 6706:what you've shown so far, here are my thoughts. 10724:section is not adequately covered in the lead. 10108:LGBT visibility in the Eurovision Song Contest 4212:This message was posted before February 2018. 4054:This message was posted before February 2018. 3817:This message was posted before February 2018. 3397:(I promise to get to sleep after posting this) 3275:is accurate (and if so, to have it sourced). — 2303:; it can literally not expressed in words, as 1775:we have all the information in the one article 1692:United Nations Security Council Resolution 777 10971:File:ESC2016 winner's press conference 18.jpg 9041:Pass - this is now listed as a Good Article. 8890:Thanks for your insights and recommendations 7297:"held every year" and "primarily European" - 7052:any other comments would be amazing! Thanks, 2921:section, and your threaded discussion in the 371:In reply to the "private conversation" part; 10196:I have now created two separate articles on 4562: 2805:. I don't know what you think, but I create 2801:I can't read all this discussion, because I 2499:be removed, have actually been carried out. 612:Julio Iglesias made fourth place, tied with 9833:. The wording of concern in the article is 8790:For anything you describe as current, like 4853: 3583:http://www.esctoday.com/news/read/12068?rss 3213:removed or an additional source be found. — 2896: 398:I participate in various issues concerning 11544:Read the last paragraph in that section. - 11494:You are invited to join the discussion at 10850:List of most-watched television broadcasts 10564:List of best-selling Belgian music artists 10355:Bonnie Tyler also make the 10 million cut. 9404:B. Media are provided if possible and are 8804:so they can be monitored to not get stale. 3779:I have just modified one external link on 2035:disrupting Knowledge to illustrate a point 1563:For the record, ESC themselves go against 84:eurovision song contest 2016 host Greece 11128:, that would also be worth looking into. 10733:. However, it can be done quite quickly. 4150:I have just modified 2 external links on 3974:I have just modified 6 external links on 2635:says, quoted in this very discussion.-~ 2421:Want to talk about position again? Great! 436:I will quote you whenever I see the need. 11253:Knowledge:Manual of Style/Words to watch 10462:overcoming the prejudices of skin colour 10083:, which would incorporate material from 9643:File:ESC 2014 Copenhagen semi 1 jury.JPG 7319:for Switzerland and Sweden respectively? 6183:I've gone ahead and updated the map. -- 2745: 1680:Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia 1323: 1315: 1295:Vauxhall posted an official source that 338:Harrassment is not tolerated on Wikpedia 9135:, without spelling and grammar errors: 7136:nomination. Honestly I would just skip 6474:List of Eurovision Song Contest winners 1719:to be highlighted as two wins, because 1372:, whilst the win in 2010 was after the 1337:in which it states in the lead section 14: 10680:To summarise this long paragraph: Per 8724:this (it states there is one needed). 6580:History of the Eurovision Song Contest 6470:History of the Eurovision Song Contest 1343:in 1990, it occasionally presented as 1335:Germany in the Eurovision Song Contest 1109:Talk:Eurovision Song Contest/Archive 2 1105:Talk:Eurovision Song Contest/Archive 1 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 3472:Voting at the Eurovision Song Contest 1613:is the position we are in right now.- 10759:Anniversary shows and special events 10710:Anniversary shows and special events 10650:Anniversary shows and special events 10132:Anniversary shows and special events 3476:Rules of the Eurovision Song Contest 2886:The following discussion is closed. 1746:File talk:Eurovision winners map.svg 1113:File talk:Eurovision winners map.svg 25: 11517:LGBT in the controversial section?? 10562:Lara Fabian with 13 million sales ( 7613:until 2019, due to the cancellation 3208:, the last resort rule is given as 2961:? Seriously, that is out of order! 2047:assume the assumption of good faith 1913:Interesting that an editor over at 23: 10514:to take onboard further thoughts. 10344:List of best-selling music artists 9322:Fair representation without bias: 9173: 9084: 2813:. What you think abouth that? Plz 1682:broke up, the remaining part; the 24: 11567: 8727:Would this be a suitable source? 8367:since its expected to define the 8365:isn't understandable as broadcast 7878:, the highest scoring song is..." 7369:Eurovision and Euroradio networks 5999:I would go with that personally. 4154:. Please take a moment to review 3978:. Please take a moment to review 3783:. Please take a moment to review 3549:. Please take a moment to review 2381:Your choice. My position stands.- 11489: 11122:Knowledge:WikiProject Eurovision 10995:File:Ksenia Sitnik JESC 2005.jpg 10975:File:Michael Flatley cropped.jpg 9413: 9393: 9348: 9323: 9300: 9284: 9259: 9239: 9223: 9203: 9172: 9136: 9000:Talk:Eurovision Song Contest/GA1 6269:Never heard of it, to be honest 5972: 5941: 5910: 5879: 5848: 5817: 5786: 5755: 5724: 5711: 5695: 5664: 5633: 5602: 5571: 5540: 5509: 5478: 5394: 5363: 5332: 5301: 5270: 5239: 5208: 5177: 5146: 5133: 5117: 5086: 5055: 5024: 4993: 4962: 4931: 4900: 4823: 4792: 4761: 4730: 4699: 4668: 4637: 4606: 4575: 4557: 4534: 4503: 4472: 4441: 4410: 4379: 4348: 3633: 3487:, welcome aboard my new friend. 3183:The discussion above is closed. 2998:would be a good venue for such. 1071: 29: 9363:contain media such as images, 9131:A. Prose is clear and concise, 9113:Knowledge:Good article criteria 7267:the 40th edition of the annual 6797:Clarifying my proposals stuff: 4000:Corrected formatting/usage for 3994:Corrected formatting/usage for 3920:Alternatively it could also be 2008:I already invited them to join. 1707:Thanks for that clarification, 442:Why are we talking about this?- 10979:File:Flatley alone cropped.jpg 6009:13:16, 10 September 2017 (UTC) 5440:09:12, 10 September 2017 (UTC) 4859:09:04, 10 September 2017 (UTC) 3916:Category:European competitions 3904:Category:European competitions 3196:Clarity needed in ties section 1684:Federal Republic of Yugoslavia 340:, in case you were not aware. 205:Please don't mix up sections.- 129:21:59, 20 September 2014 (UTC) 120:13:57, 20 September 2014 (UTC) 100:12:19, 20 September 2014 (UTC) 13: 1: 10585:Hans Christian Andersen Award 10454:Poupée de cire, poupée de son 9200:appropriate reference section 8746:16:44, 16 February 2021 (UTC) 7615:of the cancelled 2020 edition 6728:Knowledge:List dos and don'ts 3954:21:10, 11 February 2017 (UTC) 3931:As of right now there's only 3893:12:05, 27 December 2016 (UTC) 1644:resolution once and for all. 1127:10:44, 30 December 2014 (UTC) 1040:russia removed in slogan list 174:10:33, 30 December 2014 (UTC) 143:12:19, 30 December 2014 (UTC) 11541: 11540: 11523: 11522: 11514: 11513: 11487: 11486: 11475: 11474: 11455: 11454: 11423: 11422: 11381: 11380: 11361: 11360: 11273: 11272: 11247: 11246: 11222: 11221: 11202: 11201: 11170: 11169: 11149: 11148: 11103: 11102: 11046: 11045: 11037: 11036: 10961: 10960: 10952: 10951: 10928: 10927: 10785: 10784: 10752: 10751: 10675: 10674: 10641: 10640: 10632: 10631: 10566:), as future-success artist. 10254: 10253: 10229: 10228: 10041: 10040: 10028: 10027: 9861: 9860: 9827: 9826: 9729: 9728: 9619: 9618: 9610: 9609: 9447: 9446: 9438: 9437: 9429: 9428: 9414: 9394: 9349: 9324: 9301: 9285: 9260: 9240: 9224: 9204: 9137: 9121: 9120: 9105: 9104: 9101: 9100: 9095: 9094: 9083: 9082: 9074: 9073: 9058: 9057: 9038: 9037: 9009: 9008: 8990: 8989: 8926: 8925: 8921: 8920: 8911: 8910: 8887: 8886: 8849: 8848: 8840: 8839: 8823: 8822: 8794:'s position, consider using 8780: 8779: 8761: 8760: 8752: 8751: 8721: 8720: 8712: 8711: 8644: 8643: 8580: 8579: 8539: 8538: 8530: 8529: 8463: 8462: 8313: 8312: 8296: 8295: 8231: 8230: 8201: 8200: 8191: 8190: 8181: 8180: 8171: 8170: 8161: 8160: 8146: 8145: 8065: 8064: 7964: 7963: 7927: 7926: 7909: 7908: 7851: 7850: 7808: 7807: 7766: 7765: 7737: 7736: 7669: 7668: 7567: 7566: 7522: 7521: 7497: 7496: 7443: 7442: 7436: 7435: 7416: 7415: 7395: 7394: 7365:(to regional broadcasters?) 7339: 7338: 7250: 7249: 7239: 7238: 7230: 7229: 7068: 7067: 7049: 7048: 7040: 7039: 7012: 7011: 6976: 6975: 6944: 6943: 6922: 6921: 6913: 6912: 6849: 6848: 6802: 6801: 6768: 6767: 6689: 6688: 6634:Footnotes: From "until 1990 6567: 6566: 6533: 6532: 6524: 6523: 6492: 6491: 6466: 6465: 6457: 6456: 6437: 6436: 6430: 6429: 6421: 6420: 6399: 6398: 6390: 6389: 6370: 6369: 6352: 6351: 6343: 6342: 6316: 6315: 6295: 6294: 6286: 6285: 6266: 6265: 6244: 6243: 6235: 6234: 6216: 6215: 6207: 6206: 6180: 6179: 6155: 6154: 6146: 6145: 6121: 6120: 6112: 6111: 6079: 6078: 6070: 6069: 6051: 6050: 6042: 6041: 6024: 6023: 6015: 6014: 5997: 5996: 5452: 5451: 5419: 5418: 4874: 4873: 4868:I like this slightly better: 4865: 4864: 4848: 4847: 4322: 4321: 4303: 4302: 4294: 4293: 4270: 4269: 4250: 4249: 4207: 4206: 4167: 4166: 4145: 4144: 4136: 4135: 4112: 4111: 4092: 4091: 4049: 4048: 3991: 3990: 3969: 3968: 3960: 3959: 3912: 3911: 3899: 3898: 3875: 3874: 3855: 3854: 3812: 3811: 3796: 3795: 3774: 3773: 3765: 3764: 3744: 3743: 3725: 3724: 3716: 3715: 3690: 3689: 3668: 3667: 3648: 3647: 3620: 3619: 3574: 3573: 3540: 3539: 3531: 3530: 3509: 3508: 3456: 3455: 3452: 3451: 3386: 3385: 3227: 3226: 3202: 3201: 3193: 3192: 2858: 2857: 2853: 2852: 2843: 2842: 2799: 2798: 2778: 2777: 2756: 2755: 2744: 2743: 2735: 2734: 2707: 2706: 2677: 2676: 2628: 2627: 2590: 2589: 2581: 2580: 2156:Collapse in accordance with 2149: 2148: 2131: 2130: 2098: 2097: 2091: 2090: 2082: 2081: 1939: 1938: 1911: 1910: 1907: 1906: 1783: 1742: 1696: 1443:17:55, 18 January 2015 (UTC) 1396:17:47, 18 January 2015 (UTC) 1291:16:38, 18 January 2015 (UTC) 1247:15:11, 18 January 2015 (UTC) 1225:11:09, 18 January 2015 (UTC) 1196:16:52, 17 January 2015 (UTC) 1091:09:38, 6 December 2014 (UTC) 791:Collapse in accordance with 225:Collapse in accordance with 80:Eurovision Song Contest 2016 18:Talk:Eurovision Song Contest 7: 10763:Spin-offs and related shows 10714:Spin-offs and related shows 10654:Spin-offs and related shows 10583:Annie Schmidt received the 10528:Thank you and I understand 10136:Spin-offs and related shows 9593:Major aspects are covered. 7359:European Broadcasting Union 6036:09:38, 3 October 2017 (UTC) 3709:14:48, 26 August 2015 (UTC) 3684:02:10, 26 August 2015 (UTC) 3523:20:17, 15 August 2015 (UTC) 3503:06:34, 15 August 2015 (UTC) 3436:06:19, 14 August 2015 (UTC) 3416:05:17, 14 August 2015 (UTC) 3375:04:57, 14 August 2015 (UTC) 3282:03:37, 14 August 2015 (UTC) 3266:22:30, 13 August 2015 (UTC) 3220:20:59, 13 August 2015 (UTC) 3016:"Piss off you little twerp" 2211:parties, including myself. 1349:Federal Republic of Germany 1176:19:51, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 1141:16:48, 7 January 2015 (UTC) 10: 11572: 11508:23:13, 27 March 2021 (UTC) 11374:14:47, 31 March 2021 (UTC) 11348:11:48, 31 March 2021 (UTC) 11309:11:28, 30 March 2021 (UTC) 11295:19:40, 29 March 2021 (UTC) 11266:11:15, 25 March 2021 (UTC) 11238:14:28, 23 March 2021 (UTC) 11215:11:46, 23 March 2021 (UTC) 11193:14:19, 23 March 2021 (UTC) 11163:11:41, 23 March 2021 (UTC) 11138:04:41, 20 March 2021 (UTC) 11094:19:02, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 11075:17:24, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 11030:15:56, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 10911:15:46, 20 March 2021 (UTC) 10880:14:05, 20 March 2021 (UTC) 10862:11:21, 20 March 2021 (UTC) 10840:22:01, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10822:17:54, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10808:17:49, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10776:17:24, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10743:17:24, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10694:17:24, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10609:03:21, 23 March 2021 (UTC) 10524:08:02, 21 March 2021 (UTC) 10505:02:22, 21 March 2021 (UTC) 10482:17:46, 20 March 2021 (UTC) 10448:14:24, 20 March 2021 (UTC) 10433:14:05, 20 March 2021 (UTC) 10418:16:53, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10346:which reflects 75 million 10338:14:19, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10320:12:04, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10270:12:04, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10247:11:39, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10214:17:46, 20 March 2021 (UTC) 10192:14:09, 20 March 2021 (UTC) 10173:21:15, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10154:14:35, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10126:11:30, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 10079:sub-article is created on 10013:10:00, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 9998:21:37, 17 March 2021 (UTC) 9971:17:54, 17 March 2021 (UTC) 9952:09:45, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 9934:17:54, 17 March 2021 (UTC) 9908:17:21, 17 March 2021 (UTC) 9890:09:52, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 9876:18:28, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9854:18:26, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9814:08:16, 17 March 2021 (UTC) 9800:06:26, 17 March 2021 (UTC) 9786:01:15, 17 March 2021 (UTC) 9722:17:34, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9699:17:20, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9685:17:00, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9670:16:49, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9655:16:37, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9636:15:43, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9589:11:16, 25 March 2021 (UTC) 9575:09:53, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 9561:09:52, 19 March 2021 (UTC) 9547:04:09, 18 March 2021 (UTC) 9533:03:54, 18 March 2021 (UTC) 9518:17:22, 17 March 2021 (UTC) 9504:18:03, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9489:15:19, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9475:09:34, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9461:09:32, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 9029:09:27, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 8904:08:16, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 8881:01:44, 16 March 2021 (UTC) 8699:08:27, 7 August 2020 (UTC) 8677:08:01, 7 August 2020 (UTC) 8635:14:52, 6 August 2020 (UTC) 8601:08:42, 6 August 2020 (UTC) 8574:19:58, 5 August 2020 (UTC) 8559:19:38, 5 August 2020 (UTC) 8442:2-3-4 turning to 2 ones. 8373:international participants 6289:France Gall and Luxembourg 6139:14:42, 28 April 2018 (UTC) 6064:20:07, 14 March 2018 (UTC) 4243:(last update: 5 June 2024) 4147:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 4085:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3971:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3902:What about a new category 3848:(last update: 5 June 2024) 3776:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 3567:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 3542:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2917:Insert your !votes in the 1520:is against your position, 1069: 628:not even mention the ESC. 512:Criticism and controversy 11468:14:55, 1 April 2021 (UTC) 11446:14:32, 1 April 2021 (UTC) 11414:09:42, 1 April 2021 (UTC) 11399:09:22, 1 April 2021 (UTC) 10945:08:55, 1 April 2021 (UTC) 10489:Je t'aime... moi non plus 10048:Host country alternatives 9603:08:49, 1 April 2021 (UTC) 9386:valid fair use rationales 9373:to illustrate the topic? 9051:14:54, 1 April 2021 (UTC) 8834:17:42, 2 March 2021 (UTC) 8715:Presentation of the votes 8517:08:27, 23 July 2020 (UTC) 8452:21:08, 22 July 2020 (UTC) 8431:20:57, 22 July 2020 (UTC) 8394:21:12, 20 July 2020 (UTC) 8377:internationally broadcast 8348:09:29, 20 July 2020 (UTC) 8307:04:45, 20 July 2020 (UTC) 8213:22:31, 15 July 2020 (UTC) 8127:22:59, 10 July 2020 (UTC) 8094:19:27, 10 July 2020 (UTC) 8050:16:28, 10 July 2020 (UTC) 8000:11:45, 10 July 2020 (UTC) 7953:05:32, 10 July 2020 (UTC) 7720:18:07, 28 June 2020 (UTC) 7698:15:55, 28 June 2020 (UTC) 7656:17:11, 27 June 2020 (UTC) 7639:16:54, 27 June 2020 (UTC) 7584:09:58, 27 June 2020 (UTC) 7513:16:30, 26 June 2020 (UTC) 7429:08:10, 26 June 2020 (UTC) 7389:03:31, 26 June 2020 (UTC) 7213:21:21, 14 July 2020 (UTC) 7199:13:55, 12 July 2020 (UTC) 7184:14:21, 11 July 2020 (UTC) 7170:10:26, 11 July 2020 (UTC) 7151:22:52, 10 July 2020 (UTC) 7128:I think it's ready to be 6527:Participation and History 6517:00:10, 28 June 2020 (UTC) 6486:23:52, 27 June 2020 (UTC) 6415:14:32, 10 July 2019 (UTC) 6383:19:18, 6 March 2019 (UTC) 6364:19:03, 6 March 2019 (UTC) 6336:12:03, 22 July 2018 (UTC) 6310:11:09, 22 July 2018 (UTC) 6279:11:15, 21 June 2018 (UTC) 6259:12:56, 20 June 2018 (UTC) 6102:11:43, 6 April 2018 (UTC) 4288:08:59, 26 July 2017 (UTC) 3933:Category:Events in Europe 3757:20:37, 06 June 2016 (UTC) 1717:Germany as it looks today 980:the success usually does 595:Dubious claim in the Lede 373:you said it yourself here 11554:06:17, 16 May 2022 (UTC) 11535:21:28, 14 May 2022 (UTC) 7844:22:07, 9 July 2020 (UTC) 7801:18:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC) 7757:18:38, 9 July 2020 (UTC) 7611:1956 with the exception 7124:21:52, 9 July 2020 (UTC) 7094:17:25, 9 July 2020 (UTC) 7062:16:14, 9 July 2020 (UTC) 7029:17:07, 6 July 2020 (UTC) 7003:15:06, 6 July 2020 (UTC) 6989:08:32, 6 July 2020 (UTC) 6969:07:38, 6 July 2020 (UTC) 6938:18:21, 5 July 2020 (UTC) 6904:15:52, 4 July 2020 (UTC) 6882:19:24, 3 July 2020 (UTC) 6841:23:44, 2 July 2020 (UTC) 6781:19:13, 2 July 2020 (UTC) 6761:19:03, 2 July 2020 (UTC) 6678:17:40, 2 July 2020 (UTC) 6619:23:57, 1 July 2020 (UTC) 6593:23:29, 1 July 2020 (UTC) 6561:22:28, 1 July 2020 (UTC) 6450:01:51, 21 May 2020 (UTC) 6229:03:53, 7 June 2018 (UTC) 6200:11:23, 14 May 2018 (UTC) 6173:05:33, 14 May 2018 (UTC) 6018:Greenland in winners map 4130:04:46, 20 May 2017 (UTC) 3922:Category:EU competitions 3737:11:31, 17 May 2016 (UTC) 3185:Please do not modify it. 3178:13:18, 31 May 2015 (UTC) 3153:12:51, 31 May 2015 (UTC) 3137:12:34, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 3122:17:23, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 3108:16:13, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 3064:23:55, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 3050:23:30, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 3030:23:11, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 3010:22:57, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 2987:22:51, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 2973:22:39, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 2949:22:18, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 2912:13:29, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 2888:Please do not modify it. 2879:13:22, 31 May 2015 (UTC) 2837:17:00, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 2792:14:17, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 2772:19:15, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2726:14:53, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 2700:14:46, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 2688:reading this talk page. 2668:14:38, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 2651:14:34, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 2622:14:24, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 2565:00:03, 26 May 2015 (UTC) 2551:23:55, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2526:23:45, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2511:23:32, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2485:23:03, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2464:23:01, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2450:22:52, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2434:22:46, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2417:22:41, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2391:22:29, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2376:22:18, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2349:22:17, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2335:22:12, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2299:"I live in Germany, and 2284:22:03, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2264:21:42, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2240:21:00, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2223:18:51, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2143:18:02, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 2069:14:02, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 2021:13:49, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 2004:13:36, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 1979:13:13, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 1952:13:09, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 1933:09:55, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 1890:16:48, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1859:16:35, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1835:16:27, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1820:16:21, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1806:Intervision Song Contest 1790:16:16, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1769:16:07, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1736:16:04, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1703:15:57, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1673:15:44, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1656:15:39, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1623:14:42, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1592:14:12, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1554:13:35, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1522:including the ESC itself 1510:12:18, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1466:17:01, 22 May 2015 (UTC) 1414:17:01, 22 May 2015 (UTC) 1309:17:14, 22 May 2015 (UTC) 1297:directly contradicts you 1060:17:41, 30 May 2015 (UTC) 1025:16:39, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 1004:16:14, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 969:16:00, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 924:14:59, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 905:13:42, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 890:13:17, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 853:13:02, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 839:12:27, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 782:14:55, 29 May 2015 (UTC) 765:22:52, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 751:22:40, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 734:22:20, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 715:15:12, 23 May 2015 (UTC) 701:11:28, 23 May 2015 (UTC) 675:15:12, 23 May 2015 (UTC) 660:07:19, 23 May 2015 (UTC) 645:01:49, 23 May 2015 (UTC) 589:19:20, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 565:09:58, 22 May 2015 (UTC) 496:17:33, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 481:17:24, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 452:16:54, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 432:16:43, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 415:16:18, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 391:16:09, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 367:14:44, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 352:14:16, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 319:13:36, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 305:13:13, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 289:13:00, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 275:12:23, 25 May 2015 (UTC) 263:in comments to editors. 215:15:12, 23 May 2015 (UTC) 200:07:16, 23 May 2015 (UTC) 10967:File:ESC2016 Trophy.jpg 10458:surviving a bomb attack 10288:Katrina & The Waves 10198:Political controversies 9749:". Can also be added: " 9745:" (or "in relation") "' 9432:Comments on GA criteria 9408:to the topic, and have 7325:and Olivia Newton-john 7269:Eurovision Song Contest 7262:Eurovision Song Contest 4152:Eurovision Song Contest 4139:External links modified 3976:Eurovision Song Contest 3963:External links modified 3781:Eurovision Song Contest 3768:External links modified 3547:Eurovision Song Contest 3534:External links modified 2758:I will be deleting the 2470:Have the cake or eat it 550:11:55, 9 May 2015 (UTC) 534:11:38, 9 May 2015 (UTC) 10388:(as composer/writer), 9838:- in the source it is 9089: 7690:Sims2aholic8 (Michael) 7576:Sims2aholic8 (Michael) 7421:Sims2aholic8 (Michael) 7353:song competition held 7043:Draft ready for review 6870:WikiProject:Eurovision 6509:Sims2aholic8 (Michael) 3485:WikiProject Eurovision 2751: 2182:POV railroading either 1329: 1321: 1066:The map is still wrong 950:WikiProject Eurovision 467:downgrade my integrity 11389:much about bloating. 10292:Engelbert Humperdinck 9274:broad in its coverage 9115:for detailed criteria 9088: 6472:basically duplicates 5773:Feel Your Heart Beat! 5195:Feel Your Heart Beat! 4624:Feel Your Heart Beat! 3468:#Ties for first place 3206:#Ties for first place 2803:discuss it on Commons 2749: 2738:Third Opinion Request 2055:harassment to editors 1327: 1319: 42:of past discussions. 9252:copyright violations 9236:No original research 7459:agree with you. :-) 7279:Eurovision (network) 4224:regular verification 4066:regular verification 3829:regular verification 3630:to let others know. 3553:. If necessary, add 3020:Please let it rest.- 2995:The Jeremy Kyle Show 1375:German reunification 1368:German reunification 1341:German reunification 124:2017 - Bankrupt. -- 11126:A class assessments 10466:Andrew Lloyd-Webber 10452:Take a look at the 10360:Andrew Lloyd Webber 9551:No copyvio issues. 9096:</noinclude: --> 8533:Origins and History 7609:its inauguration in 7348:annual pan-European 7327:for United Kingdom? 5959:Celebrate Diversity 5682:Confluence of Sound 5381:Celebrate Diversity 5104:Confluence of Sound 4810:Celebrate Diversity 4552:Confluence of Sound 4214:After February 2018 4056:After February 2018 3819:After February 2018 3626:parameter below to 3014:Like you did here? 2923:Threaded Discussion 2535:, which go against 2468:Telling someone to 2027:did you not hear me 1347:, representing the 11065:to be dealt with. 10050:could be moved to 9187:factually accurate 9090: 8665:regional dialectal 7255:Eurovision network 5558:Under The Same Sky 5527:Magical Rendezvous 5496:A Modern Fairytale 4980:Under The Same Sky 4949:Magical Rendezvous 4918:A Modern Fairytale 4428:Under The Same Sky 4397:Magical Rendezvous 4366:A Modern Fairytale 4276:InternetArchiveBot 4219:InternetArchiveBot 4118:InternetArchiveBot 4061:InternetArchiveBot 3881:InternetArchiveBot 3824:InternetArchiveBot 2957:to another user's 2889: 2752: 2053:, and constitutes 2033:is a clear way of 1990:admin intervention 1518:Every known source 1330: 1322: 1044:pls correct this 665:(ie. misleading).- 9776:section is best. 9410:suitable captions 9388:are provided for 9147:B. Complies with 8986: 8985: 7607:every year since 6175: 6163:comment added by 6141: 6129:comment added by 6104: 6088:comment added by 5993: 5992: 5742:Share The Moment! 5415: 5414: 5164:Share The Moment! 4844: 4843: 4593:Share The Moment! 4244: 4086: 3925: 3849: 3693:Sources checked. 3682: 3428: 3398: 2887: 2653: 2641:comment added by 2584:Wesley's position 2576: 2575: 2043:gaming the system 1845: 1486: 1477:comment added by 1160: 1151:comment added by 1062: 1050:comment added by 1036: 1035: 591: 579:comment added by 503: 502: 159: 150:comment added by 90:comment added by 77: 76: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 11563: 11559: 11558: 11539: 11538: 11521: 11520: 11512: 11511: 11493: 11492: 11485: 11484: 11473: 11472: 11453: 11452: 11434: 11421: 11420: 11379: 11378: 11359: 11358: 11283: 11271: 11270: 11245: 11244: 11220: 11219: 11200: 11199: 11181: 11168: 11167: 11147: 11146: 11101: 11100: 11082:featured article 11044: 11043: 11035: 11034: 10959: 10958: 10955:General comments 10950: 10949: 10926: 10925: 10783: 10782: 10750: 10749: 10673: 10672: 10658:Eurovision Choir 10639: 10638: 10630: 10629: 10386:Serge Gainsbourg 10252: 10251: 10227: 10226: 10039: 10038: 10026: 10025: 9859: 9858: 9842: 9837: 9825: 9824: 9743:revolving around 9727: 9726: 9617: 9616: 9608: 9607: 9445: 9444: 9436: 9435: 9427: 9426: 9417: 9416: 9397: 9396: 9390:non-free content 9382:copyright status 9352: 9351: 9327: 9326: 9304: 9303: 9288: 9287: 9263: 9262: 9243: 9242: 9227: 9226: 9207: 9206: 9176: 9175: 9140: 9139: 9119: 9118: 9103: 9102: 9098: 9097: 9092: 9091: 9081: 9080: 9072: 9071: 9056: 9055: 9036: 9035: 9007: 9006: 8988: 8987: 8940:Copyvio detector 8928: 8927: 8923: 8922: 8918: 8917: 8909: 8908: 8885: 8884: 8877: 8847: 8846: 8838: 8837: 8821: 8820: 8803: 8797: 8792:Martin Österdahl 8778: 8777: 8774: 8759: 8758: 8750: 8749: 8719: 8718: 8710: 8709: 8687: 8657: 8642: 8641: 8611: 8589: 8578: 8577: 8547: 8537: 8536: 8528: 8527: 8478: 8461: 8460: 8404: 8358: 8322: 8311: 8310: 8294: 8293: 8229: 8228: 8225: 8199: 8198: 8189: 8188: 8179: 8178: 8169: 8168: 8159: 8158: 8154: 8144: 8143: 8105: 8082: 8063: 8062: 8010: 7977: 7962: 7961: 7925: 7924: 7907: 7906: 7862: 7849: 7848: 7817: 7806: 7805: 7764: 7763: 7745: 7735: 7734: 7708: 7686: 7667: 7666: 7594: 7565: 7564: 7535: 7520: 7519: 7495: 7494: 7454: 7441: 7440: 7434: 7433: 7414: 7413: 7404: 7393: 7392: 7337: 7336: 7307:Recent winner - 7248: 7247: 7237: 7236: 7228: 7227: 7134:Featured Article 7066: 7065: 7047: 7046: 7038: 7037: 7010: 7009: 6974: 6973: 6953: 6942: 6941: 6924:Thoughts on the 6920: 6919: 6911: 6910: 6892: 6858: 6847: 6846: 6800: 6799: 6792: 6766: 6765: 6704: 6687: 6686: 6629: 6603: 6576: 6565: 6564: 6541: 6531: 6530: 6522: 6521: 6501: 6490: 6489: 6464: 6463: 6455: 6454: 6435: 6434: 6428: 6427: 6419: 6418: 6397: 6396: 6388: 6387: 6368: 6367: 6350: 6349: 6341: 6340: 6333: 6328: 6324: 6314: 6313: 6293: 6292: 6284: 6283: 6264: 6263: 6242: 6241: 6233: 6232: 6214: 6213: 6210:UK Spokespersons 6205: 6204: 6197: 6192: 6188: 6178: 6177: 6158: 6153: 6152: 6144: 6143: 6124: 6119: 6118: 6110: 6109: 6083: 6077: 6076: 6068: 6067: 6049: 6048: 6040: 6039: 6022: 6021: 6013: 6012: 5995: 5994: 5981: 5977: 5976: 5975: 5950: 5946: 5945: 5944: 5919: 5915: 5914: 5913: 5897:Building Bridges 5888: 5884: 5883: 5882: 5857: 5853: 5852: 5851: 5826: 5822: 5821: 5820: 5804:Light Your Fire! 5795: 5791: 5790: 5789: 5764: 5760: 5759: 5758: 5733: 5729: 5728: 5727: 5704: 5700: 5699: 5698: 5673: 5669: 5668: 5667: 5642: 5638: 5637: 5636: 5620:Feel The Rhythm! 5611: 5607: 5606: 5605: 5580: 5576: 5575: 5574: 5549: 5545: 5544: 5543: 5518: 5514: 5513: 5512: 5487: 5483: 5482: 5481: 5454: 5453: 5450: 5449: 5436: 5430: 5417: 5416: 5403: 5399: 5398: 5397: 5372: 5368: 5367: 5366: 5341: 5337: 5336: 5335: 5319:Building Bridges 5310: 5306: 5305: 5304: 5279: 5275: 5274: 5273: 5248: 5244: 5243: 5242: 5226:Light Your Fire! 5217: 5213: 5212: 5211: 5186: 5182: 5181: 5180: 5155: 5151: 5150: 5149: 5126: 5122: 5121: 5120: 5095: 5091: 5090: 5089: 5064: 5060: 5059: 5058: 5042:Feel The Rhythm! 5033: 5029: 5028: 5027: 5002: 4998: 4997: 4996: 4971: 4967: 4966: 4965: 4940: 4936: 4935: 4934: 4909: 4905: 4904: 4903: 4876: 4875: 4872: 4871: 4863: 4862: 4855: 4846: 4845: 4832: 4828: 4827: 4826: 4801: 4797: 4796: 4795: 4770: 4766: 4765: 4764: 4748:Building Bridges 4739: 4735: 4734: 4733: 4708: 4704: 4703: 4702: 4677: 4673: 4672: 4671: 4655:Light Your Fire! 4646: 4642: 4641: 4640: 4615: 4611: 4610: 4609: 4584: 4580: 4579: 4578: 4543: 4539: 4538: 4537: 4512: 4508: 4507: 4506: 4490:Feel The Rhythm! 4481: 4477: 4476: 4475: 4450: 4446: 4445: 4444: 4419: 4415: 4414: 4413: 4388: 4384: 4383: 4382: 4357: 4353: 4352: 4351: 4324: 4323: 4320: 4319: 4311: 4301: 4300: 4292: 4291: 4286: 4277: 4268: 4267: 4248: 4247: 4242: 4241: 4220: 4205: 4204: 4197: 4165: 4164: 4143: 4142: 4134: 4133: 4128: 4119: 4110: 4109: 4090: 4089: 4084: 4083: 4062: 4047: 4046: 3989: 3988: 3967: 3966: 3958: 3957: 3919: 3910: 3909: 3897: 3896: 3891: 3882: 3873: 3872: 3853: 3852: 3847: 3846: 3825: 3810: 3809: 3794: 3793: 3772: 3771: 3763: 3762: 3742: 3741: 3723: 3722: 3714: 3713: 3707: 3704: 3699: 3688: 3687: 3678: 3677:Talk to my owner 3673: 3666: 3665: 3646: 3645: 3640: 3637: 3636: 3618: 3617: 3572: 3571: 3568: 3560: 3538: 3537: 3529: 3528: 3507: 3506: 3501: 3498: 3493: 3464: 3454: 3453: 3450: 3449: 3426: 3414: 3411: 3406: 3396: 3384: 3383: 3373: 3370: 3365: 3327: 3321: 3315: 3309: 3303: 3293: 3274: 3264: 3261: 3256: 3249: 3236: 3225: 3224: 3211: 3200: 3199: 3191: 3190: 3176: 3172: 3164: 3105: 3100: 3095: 3048: 3044: 3008: 3004: 2971: 2967: 2877: 2873: 2855: 2854: 2850: 2849: 2841: 2840: 2822: 2816: 2797: 2796: 2776: 2775: 2754: 2753: 2742: 2741: 2733: 2732: 2705: 2704: 2698: 2694: 2686: 2675: 2674: 2666: 2662: 2636: 2626: 2625: 2620: 2616: 2605: 2599: 2588: 2587: 2579: 2578: 2549: 2545: 2509: 2505: 2483: 2479: 2448: 2444: 2415: 2411: 2404: 2398: 2374: 2370: 2333: 2329: 2322: 2316: 2262: 2258: 2250: 2221: 2217: 2152: 2151: 2147: 2146: 2129: 2128: 2096: 2095: 2089: 2088: 2080: 2079: 2067: 2063: 2002: 1998: 1937: 1936: 1931: 1927: 1909: 1908: 1904: 1900: 1873:when Nicole won. 1857: 1853: 1839: 1818: 1814: 1802: 1787: 1740: 1734: 1730: 1714: 1700: 1690:", however, the 1671: 1667: 1654: 1650: 1590: 1586: 1580: 1579: 1575:(from the EBU). 1562: 1561: 1508: 1504: 1472: 1441: 1437: 1394: 1390: 1289: 1285: 1258: 1223: 1219: 1174: 1170: 1146: 1125: 1121: 1102: 1075: 1074: 1045: 1023: 1019: 967: 963: 888: 884: 876: 872: 837: 833: 820: 787: 786: 749: 745: 699: 695: 574: 479: 475: 430: 426: 389: 385: 350: 346: 303: 299: 273: 269: 250: 221: 220: 172: 168: 145: 116: 111: 102: 73: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 11571: 11570: 11566: 11565: 11564: 11562: 11561: 11560: 11519: 11500:RunningTiger123 11490: 11483: 11428: 11277: 11175: 11059:MOS:OVERSECTION 11042: 10957: 10933:MOS:OVERSECTION 10702:manual of style 10682:MOS:OVERSECTION 10662:Songs of Europe 10646:MOS:OVERSECTION 10637: 10390:Françoise Hardy 10202:LGBT visibility 10141:MOS:OVERSECTION 10104:LGBT visibility 9839: 9834: 9615: 9434: 9220:where necessary 9214:B. Citation to 9079: 8994:This review is 8982: 8954: 8916: 8875: 8845: 8801: 8795: 8775:some feedback: 8768: 8757: 8717: 8681: 8651: 8605: 8583: 8541: 8535: 8472: 8398: 8352: 8332:pean in origin. 8316: 8219: 8148: 8099: 8076: 8004: 7971: 7856: 7811: 7739: 7702: 7680: 7588: 7529: 7448: 7408:Hiberno-English 7398: 7235: 7045: 6947: 6918: 6886: 6852: 6786: 6698: 6623: 6597: 6570: 6535: 6529: 6495: 6462: 6442:Not A Superhero 6426: 6395: 6356:Fandelasketchup 6348: 6331: 6326: 6322: 6291: 6277: 6240: 6212: 6195: 6190: 6186: 6151: 6117: 6115:Longest running 6075: 6047: 6020: 5973: 5971: 5970: 5942: 5940: 5939: 5911: 5909: 5908: 5880: 5878: 5877: 5849: 5847: 5846: 5818: 5816: 5815: 5787: 5785: 5784: 5756: 5754: 5753: 5725: 5723: 5722: 5696: 5694: 5693: 5665: 5663: 5662: 5634: 5632: 5631: 5603: 5601: 5600: 5572: 5570: 5569: 5541: 5539: 5538: 5510: 5508: 5507: 5479: 5477: 5476: 5434: 5428: 5395: 5393: 5392: 5364: 5362: 5361: 5333: 5331: 5330: 5302: 5300: 5299: 5271: 5269: 5268: 5240: 5238: 5237: 5209: 5207: 5206: 5178: 5176: 5175: 5147: 5145: 5144: 5118: 5116: 5115: 5087: 5085: 5084: 5056: 5054: 5053: 5025: 5023: 5022: 4994: 4992: 4991: 4963: 4961: 4960: 4932: 4930: 4929: 4901: 4899: 4898: 4824: 4822: 4821: 4793: 4791: 4790: 4762: 4760: 4759: 4731: 4729: 4728: 4700: 4698: 4697: 4669: 4667: 4666: 4638: 4636: 4635: 4607: 4605: 4604: 4576: 4574: 4573: 4535: 4533: 4532: 4504: 4502: 4501: 4473: 4471: 4470: 4442: 4440: 4439: 4411: 4409: 4408: 4380: 4378: 4377: 4349: 4347: 4346: 4305: 4299: 4280: 4275: 4235: 4228:have permission 4218: 4191: 4160:this simple FaQ 4141: 4122: 4117: 4077: 4070:have permission 4060: 3984:this simple FaQ 3965: 3908: 3885: 3880: 3840: 3833:have permission 3823: 3789:this simple FaQ 3770: 3721: 3702: 3697: 3694: 3681: 3676: 3638: 3634: 3562: 3554: 3536: 3496: 3491: 3488: 3458: 3409: 3404: 3401: 3368: 3363: 3360: 3324: 3318: 3312: 3306: 3300: 3287: 3272: 3259: 3254: 3251: 3246: 3230: 3209: 3198: 3189: 3188: 3170: 3167: 3158: 3114:Robert McClenon 3103: 3098: 3093: 3084: 3042: 3039: 3002: 2999: 2965: 2962: 2927:Robert McClenon 2892: 2883: 2882: 2881: 2871: 2868: 2863: 2848: 2834: 2820: 2814: 2807:hatched version 2764:Robert McClenon 2740: 2692: 2689: 2680: 2660: 2657: 2614: 2611: 2603: 2597: 2586: 2577: 2543: 2540: 2503: 2500: 2477: 2474: 2442: 2439: 2409: 2406: 2402: 2396: 2368: 2365: 2327: 2324: 2320: 2314: 2256: 2253: 2244: 2215: 2212: 2165: 2087: 2061: 2058: 2041:? You are also 1996: 1993: 1986:etiquette rules 1925: 1922: 1851: 1848: 1812: 1809: 1796: 1728: 1725: 1721:Germany in 1982 1708: 1688:successor state 1665: 1662: 1648: 1645: 1584: 1581: 1576: 1558: 1502: 1499: 1435: 1432: 1404:the first one.- 1388: 1385: 1299:, let it rest.- 1283: 1280: 1252: 1217: 1214: 1168: 1165: 1119: 1116: 1096: 1078: 1077: 1072: 1068: 1042: 1037: 1017: 1014: 989:feature article 961: 958: 943:feature article 882: 879: 870: 867: 831: 828: 814: 800: 743: 740: 693: 690: 597: 509: 504: 473: 470: 424: 421: 383: 380: 344: 341: 334:hounding people 297: 294: 267: 264: 244: 234: 188: 166: 163: 114: 109: 85: 82: 69: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 11569: 11557: 11556: 11518: 11515: 11482: 11478:Discussion at 11476: 11471: 11470: 11451: 11450: 11449: 11448: 11419: 11418: 11417: 11416: 11386: 11377: 11376: 11357: 11356: 11355: 11354: 11353: 11352: 11351: 11350: 11335: 11327: 11323: 11319: 11269: 11268: 11243: 11242: 11241: 11240: 11218: 11217: 11198: 11197: 11196: 11195: 11166: 11165: 11145: 11144: 11143: 11142: 11141: 11140: 11099: 11098: 11097: 11096: 11041: 11040:Pass/Hold/Fail 11038: 11033: 11032: 10956: 10953: 10948: 10947: 10924: 10923: 10922: 10921: 10920: 10919: 10918: 10917: 10916: 10915: 10914: 10913: 10893: 10889: 10886: 10843: 10842: 10825: 10824: 10810: 10781: 10780: 10779: 10778: 10748: 10747: 10746: 10745: 10726: 10725: 10697: 10696: 10671: 10670: 10636: 10633: 10628: 10627: 10626: 10625: 10624: 10623: 10622: 10621: 10620: 10619: 10618: 10617: 10616: 10615: 10614: 10613: 10612: 10611: 10596: 10592: 10588: 10581: 10575: 10571: 10567: 10559: 10558: 10550:Goran Bregović 10546:Alla Pugacheva 10541: 10537: 10533: 10492: 10435: 10405: 10401: 10397: 10394:Nana Mouskouri 10382: 10368: 10356: 10352: 10323: 10322: 10272: 10250: 10249: 10225: 10224: 10223: 10222: 10221: 10220: 10219: 10218: 10217: 10216: 10176: 10175: 10157: 10156: 10113: 10112: 10111: 10101: 10073: 10067: 10066:, with a link. 10056: 10037: 10036: 10024: 10023: 10022: 10021: 10020: 10019: 10018: 10017: 10016: 10015: 9985: 9974: 9973: 9957: 9956: 9955: 9954: 9937: 9936: 9921: 9917: 9911: 9910: 9895: 9894: 9893: 9892: 9880:Now resolved. 9857: 9856: 9823: 9822: 9821: 9820: 9819: 9818: 9817: 9816: 9769: 9758: 9739: 9725: 9724: 9701: 9687: 9672: 9657: 9638: 9614: 9611: 9606: 9605: 9591: 9577: 9563: 9549: 9535: 9520: 9506: 9491: 9477: 9463: 9443: 9442: 9433: 9430: 9425: 9424: 9423: 9422: 9421: 9420: 9402: 9401: 9400: 9359: 9358: 9357: 9356: 9355: 9334: 9333: 9332: 9331: 9330: 9311: 9310: 9309: 9308: 9307: 9293: 9292: 9291: 9270: 9269: 9268: 9267: 9266: 9248: 9247: 9246: 9232: 9231: 9230: 9212: 9211: 9210: 9183: 9182: 9181: 9180: 9179: 9161:words to watch 9145: 9144: 9143: 9133:understandable 9078: 9075: 9054: 9053: 9033: 9005: 9004: 8984: 8983: 8981: 8980: 8975: 8970: 8964: 8961: 8960: 8956: 8955: 8953: 8952: 8950:External links 8947: 8942: 8936: 8933: 8932: 8915: 8912: 8907: 8906: 8844: 8841: 8819: 8818: 8815: 8812: 8809: 8805: 8788: 8756: 8753: 8716: 8713: 8708: 8707: 8706: 8705: 8704: 8703: 8702: 8701: 8660: 8640: 8639: 8638: 8637: 8622: 8618: 8614: 8534: 8531: 8526: 8525: 8524: 8523: 8522: 8521: 8520: 8519: 8507:and all that! 8501: 8500: 8499: 8491: 8487: 8483: 8459: 8458: 8457: 8456: 8455: 8454: 8439: 8435: 8434: 8433: 8418: 8414: 8410: 8381: 8360: 8336: 8333: 8325: 8292: 8291: 8287: 8283: 8279: 8275: 8271: 8267: 8263: 8259: 8255: 8251: 8217: 8197: 8196: 8187: 8186: 8177: 8176: 8167: 8166: 8142: 8141: 8140: 8139: 8138: 8137: 8136: 8135: 8134: 8133: 8132: 8131: 8130: 8129: 8114: 8061: 8060: 8059: 8058: 8057: 8056: 8055: 8054: 8053: 8052: 8033: 8029: 8021: 8017: 7988: 7984: 7980: 7960: 7959: 7958: 7957: 7956: 7955: 7940: 7936: 7923: 7922: 7921: 7920: 7919: 7918: 7905: 7904: 7903: 7902: 7901: 7900: 7896: 7887:, and remove " 7881: 7869: 7847: 7846: 7828: 7825: 7822: 7819: 7804: 7803: 7789: 7785: 7781: 7778: 7775: 7771: 7733: 7732: 7731: 7730: 7729: 7728: 7727: 7726: 7725: 7724: 7723: 7722: 7665: 7664: 7663: 7662: 7661: 7660: 7659: 7658: 7643: 7642: 7641: 7626: 7622: 7621:entertainment. 7618: 7563: 7562: 7561: 7560: 7559: 7558: 7557: 7556: 7552: 7549: 7545: 7541: 7518: 7517: 7516: 7515: 7493: 7492: 7491: 7490: 7489: 7488: 7484: 7480: 7476: 7472: 7468: 7464: 7456: 7438: 7432: 7431: 7412: 7411: 7341: 7335: 7334: 7330: 7311: 7304: 7294: 7287: 7272: 7234: 7231: 7226: 7225: 7224: 7223: 7222: 7221: 7220: 7219: 7218: 7217: 7216: 7215: 7172: 7112: 7111: 7110: 7106: 7103: 7082: 7081: 7080: 7076: 7044: 7041: 7036: 7035: 7034: 7033: 7032: 7031: 7008: 7007: 7006: 7005: 6972: 6971: 6917: 6914: 6909: 6908: 6907: 6906: 6865: 6861: 6845: 6844: 6828: 6825: 6822: 6819: 6815: 6785: 6764: 6763: 6748: 6747: 6746: 6745: 6744: 6743: 6742: 6731: 6717: 6707: 6685: 6684: 6683: 6682: 6681: 6680: 6660: 6648: 6641:with Australia 6632: 6606: 6528: 6525: 6520: 6519: 6461: 6460:"Sub"-articles 6458: 6453: 6452: 6425: 6424:Politicization 6422: 6394: 6391: 6386: 6385: 6347: 6344: 6339: 6338: 6290: 6287: 6282: 6281: 6273: 6251:213.149.61.204 6239: 6236: 6211: 6208: 6203: 6202: 6150: 6147: 6116: 6113: 6107: 6074: 6071: 6046: 6043: 6019: 6016: 5991: 5990: 5987: 5982: 5968: 5962: 5961: 5956: 5951: 5937: 5931: 5930: 5925: 5920: 5906: 5900: 5899: 5894: 5889: 5875: 5869: 5868: 5863: 5858: 5844: 5838: 5837: 5832: 5827: 5813: 5807: 5806: 5801: 5796: 5782: 5776: 5775: 5770: 5765: 5751: 5745: 5744: 5739: 5734: 5720: 5714: 5713: 5710: 5705: 5691: 5685: 5684: 5679: 5674: 5660: 5654: 5653: 5648: 5643: 5629: 5623: 5622: 5617: 5612: 5598: 5592: 5591: 5586: 5581: 5567: 5561: 5560: 5555: 5550: 5536: 5530: 5529: 5524: 5519: 5505: 5499: 5498: 5493: 5488: 5474: 5468: 5467: 5464: 5461: 5458: 5448: 5447: 5446: 5445: 5413: 5412: 5409: 5404: 5390: 5384: 5383: 5378: 5373: 5359: 5353: 5352: 5347: 5342: 5328: 5322: 5321: 5316: 5311: 5297: 5291: 5290: 5285: 5280: 5266: 5260: 5259: 5254: 5249: 5235: 5229: 5228: 5223: 5218: 5204: 5198: 5197: 5192: 5187: 5173: 5167: 5166: 5161: 5156: 5142: 5136: 5135: 5132: 5127: 5113: 5107: 5106: 5101: 5096: 5082: 5076: 5075: 5070: 5065: 5051: 5045: 5044: 5039: 5034: 5020: 5014: 5013: 5008: 5003: 4989: 4983: 4982: 4977: 4972: 4958: 4952: 4951: 4946: 4941: 4927: 4921: 4920: 4915: 4910: 4896: 4890: 4889: 4886: 4883: 4880: 4870: 4869: 4842: 4841: 4838: 4833: 4819: 4813: 4812: 4807: 4802: 4788: 4782: 4781: 4776: 4771: 4757: 4751: 4750: 4745: 4740: 4726: 4720: 4719: 4714: 4709: 4695: 4689: 4688: 4683: 4678: 4664: 4658: 4657: 4652: 4647: 4633: 4627: 4626: 4621: 4616: 4602: 4596: 4595: 4590: 4585: 4571: 4565: 4564: 4561: 4555: 4554: 4549: 4544: 4530: 4524: 4523: 4518: 4513: 4499: 4493: 4492: 4487: 4482: 4468: 4462: 4461: 4456: 4451: 4437: 4431: 4430: 4425: 4420: 4406: 4400: 4399: 4394: 4389: 4375: 4369: 4368: 4363: 4358: 4344: 4338: 4337: 4334: 4331: 4328: 4298: 4295: 4266: 4265: 4258: 4203: 4202: 4188: 4180:Added archive 4178: 4170:Added archive 4140: 4137: 4108: 4107: 4100: 4045: 4044: 4036:Added archive 4034: 4026:Added archive 4024: 4016:Added archive 4014: 4006:Added archive 4004: 3998: 3964: 3961: 3907: 3900: 3871: 3870: 3863: 3808: 3807: 3799:Added archive 3769: 3766: 3761: 3760: 3759: 3739: 3720: 3719:Contradiction? 3717: 3712: 3711: 3674: 3664: 3663: 3656: 3616: 3615: 3607:Added archive 3605: 3597:Added archive 3595: 3587:Added archive 3585: 3577:Added archive 3535: 3532: 3527: 3526: 3448: 3447: 3446: 3445: 3444: 3443: 3442: 3441: 3440: 3439: 3419: 3418: 3382: 3381: 3380: 3379: 3378: 3377: 3355: 3354: 3350: 3347: 3344: 3341: 3338: 3334: 3333: 3329: 3328: 3322: 3316: 3310: 3304: 3297: 3296: 3197: 3194: 3182: 3181: 3180: 3140: 3139: 3124: 3110: 3083: 3080: 3079: 3078: 3077: 3076: 3075: 3074: 3073: 3072: 3071: 3070: 3069: 3068: 3067: 3066: 3032: 3018: 2937: 2893: 2884: 2865: 2864: 2861: 2860: 2859: 2847: 2844: 2828: 2795: 2794: 2739: 2736: 2731: 2730: 2729: 2728: 2703: 2702: 2673: 2672: 2671: 2670: 2585: 2582: 2574: 2573: 2572: 2571: 2570: 2569: 2568: 2567: 2496: 2495: 2494: 2493: 2492: 2491: 2490: 2489: 2488: 2487: 2466: 2422: 2362: 2361: 2360: 2359: 2358: 2357: 2356: 2355: 2354: 2353: 2352: 2351: 2272: 2269: 2228: 2200: 2167: 2166: 2155: 2150: 2127: 2126: 2122: 2119: 2118:in the future. 2115: 2111: 2107: 2103: 2086: 2083: 2078: 2077: 2076: 2075: 2074: 2073: 2072: 2071: 2009: 1954: 1905: 1903: 1902: 1901: 1899: 1898: 1897: 1896: 1895: 1894: 1893: 1892: 1877: 1874: 1867: 1864: 1757: 1753: 1741: 1739: 1738: 1634: 1633: 1632: 1631: 1630: 1629: 1628: 1627: 1626: 1625: 1607: 1604: 1601: 1597: 1544:of the knots.- 1541: 1537: 1525: 1515: 1446: 1445: 1419: 1418: 1417: 1416: 1401: 1314: 1313: 1312: 1311: 1264: 1228: 1227: 1206: 1203:13 August 2011 1183: 1182: 1181: 1180: 1179: 1178: 1153:149.172.99.168 1143: 1133:149.172.99.168 1111:, and also at 1070: 1067: 1064: 1041: 1038: 1034: 1033: 1032: 1031: 1030: 1029: 1028: 1027: 1009:impact across 992: 985: 974: 946: 939: 935: 908: 907: 864: 863: 862: 861: 860: 859: 858: 857: 856: 855: 802: 801: 790: 785: 770: 769: 768: 767: 722: 721: 720: 719: 718: 717: 680: 679: 678: 677: 621: 620: 617: 616:other artists. 610: 607: 596: 593: 570: 569: 568: 567: 526:82.131.149.123 508: 505: 501: 500: 499: 498: 463: 462: 461: 460: 459: 458: 457: 456: 455: 454: 440: 437: 403: 396: 330: 329: 328: 327: 326: 325: 324: 323: 322: 321: 236: 235: 224: 219: 218: 217: 187: 184: 183: 182: 181: 180: 179: 178: 177: 176: 81: 78: 75: 74: 67: 62: 52: 51: 34: 15: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 11568: 11555: 11551: 11547: 11543: 11542: 11537: 11536: 11532: 11528: 11510: 11509: 11505: 11501: 11497: 11481: 11469: 11465: 11461: 11457: 11456: 11447: 11443: 11439: 11432: 11427: 11426: 11425: 11424: 11415: 11411: 11407: 11402: 11401: 11400: 11396: 11392: 11387: 11383: 11382: 11375: 11371: 11367: 11363: 11362: 11349: 11345: 11341: 11336: 11333: 11328: 11324: 11320: 11316: 11315: 11312: 11311: 11310: 11306: 11302: 11298: 11297: 11296: 11292: 11288: 11281: 11275: 11274: 11267: 11263: 11259: 11254: 11249: 11248: 11239: 11235: 11231: 11226: 11225: 11224: 11223: 11216: 11212: 11208: 11204: 11203: 11194: 11190: 11186: 11179: 11174: 11173: 11172: 11171: 11164: 11160: 11156: 11151: 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10582: 10579: 10578:Patricia Kaas 10576: 10572: 10568: 10565: 10561: 10560: 10555: 10551: 10547: 10542: 10538: 10534: 10531: 10527: 10526: 10525: 10521: 10517: 10512: 10508: 10507: 10506: 10502: 10498: 10493: 10490: 10485: 10484: 10483: 10479: 10475: 10471: 10470:Pete Waterman 10467: 10463: 10459: 10455: 10451: 10450: 10449: 10445: 10441: 10436: 10434: 10430: 10426: 10421: 10420: 10419: 10415: 10411: 10406: 10402: 10398: 10395: 10391: 10387: 10383: 10380: 10379:Annie Schmidt 10376: 10372: 10369: 10366: 10361: 10357: 10353: 10349: 10345: 10341: 10340: 10339: 10335: 10331: 10327: 10326: 10325: 10324: 10321: 10317: 10313: 10309: 10305: 10301: 10300:Cliff Richard 10297: 10293: 10289: 10285: 10281: 10280:Cliff Richard 10277: 10273: 10271: 10267: 10263: 10258: 10257: 10256: 10255: 10248: 10244: 10240: 10235: 10231: 10230: 10215: 10211: 10207: 10203: 10199: 10195: 10194: 10193: 10189: 10185: 10180: 10179: 10178: 10177: 10174: 10170: 10166: 10161: 10160: 10159: 10158: 10155: 10151: 10147: 10142: 10137: 10133: 10129: 10128: 10127: 10123: 10119: 10114: 10109: 10105: 10102: 10099: 10094: 10090: 10086: 10082: 10077: 10074: 10071: 10068: 10065: 10061: 10057: 10053: 10049: 10045: 10044: 10043: 10042: 10034: 10030: 10029: 10014: 10010: 10006: 10001: 10000: 9999: 9995: 9991: 9986: 9982: 9978: 9977: 9976: 9975: 9972: 9968: 9964: 9959: 9958: 9953: 9949: 9945: 9941: 9940: 9939: 9938: 9935: 9931: 9927: 9922: 9918: 9915: 9914: 9913: 9912: 9909: 9905: 9901: 9897: 9896: 9891: 9887: 9883: 9879: 9878: 9877: 9873: 9869: 9865: 9864: 9863: 9862: 9855: 9851: 9847: 9832: 9829: 9828: 9815: 9811: 9807: 9803: 9802: 9801: 9797: 9793: 9789: 9788: 9787: 9783: 9779: 9774: 9770: 9767: 9763: 9759: 9756: 9752: 9748: 9744: 9740: 9737: 9733: 9732: 9731: 9730: 9723: 9719: 9715: 9710: 9709:international 9706: 9702: 9700: 9696: 9692: 9688: 9686: 9682: 9678: 9673: 9671: 9667: 9663: 9658: 9656: 9652: 9648: 9644: 9639: 9637: 9633: 9629: 9625: 9621: 9620: 9604: 9600: 9596: 9592: 9590: 9586: 9582: 9578: 9576: 9572: 9568: 9564: 9562: 9558: 9554: 9550: 9548: 9544: 9540: 9536: 9534: 9530: 9526: 9521: 9519: 9515: 9511: 9507: 9505: 9501: 9497: 9492: 9490: 9486: 9482: 9478: 9476: 9472: 9468: 9464: 9462: 9458: 9454: 9449: 9448: 9440: 9439: 9419: 9418: 9411: 9407: 9403: 9399: 9398: 9391: 9387: 9383: 9379: 9376:A. Media are 9375: 9374: 9372: 9370: 9366: 9360: 9354: 9353: 9346: 9342: 9341: 9339: 9335: 9329: 9328: 9321: 9320: 9318: 9317: 9312: 9306: 9305: 9298: 9294: 9290: 9289: 9282: 9281:Major aspects 9278: 9277: 9275: 9271: 9265: 9264: 9257: 9253: 9249: 9245: 9244: 9237: 9233: 9229: 9228: 9221: 9217: 9213: 9209: 9208: 9201: 9197: 9196: 9194: 9193: 9188: 9184: 9178: 9177: 9170: 9166: 9162: 9158: 9154: 9151:guidance for 9150: 9146: 9142: 9141: 9134: 9130: 9129: 9127: 9123: 9122: 9117: 9116: 9114: 9111:review – see 9110: 9099: 9087: 9070: 9068: 9064: 9052: 9048: 9044: 9040: 9039: 9034: 9031: 9030: 9026: 9023: 9020: 9016: 9013: 9003: 9001: 8997: 8992: 8991: 8979: 8976: 8974: 8971: 8969: 8966: 8965: 8963: 8962: 8958: 8957: 8951: 8948: 8946: 8943: 8941: 8938: 8937: 8935: 8934: 8930: 8929: 8924: 8905: 8901: 8897: 8893: 8889: 8888: 8883: 8882: 8879: 8878: 8871: 8867: 8862: 8861:summary style 8858: 8854: 8836: 8835: 8831: 8827: 8816: 8813: 8810: 8806: 8800: 8793: 8789: 8786: 8782: 8781: 8776: 8772: 8766: 8755:Rules section 8748: 8747: 8743: 8739: 8734: 8733: 8730: 8725: 8700: 8696: 8692: 8685: 8680: 8679: 8678: 8674: 8670: 8666: 8661: 8655: 8650: 8649: 8648: 8647: 8646: 8645: 8636: 8632: 8628: 8623: 8619: 8615: 8609: 8604: 8603: 8602: 8598: 8594: 8587: 8582: 8581: 8576: 8575: 8571: 8567: 8561: 8560: 8556: 8552: 8545: 8518: 8514: 8510: 8506: 8502: 8497: 8492: 8488: 8484: 8481: 8480: 8476: 8471: 8470: 8469: 8468: 8467: 8466: 8465: 8464: 8453: 8449: 8445: 8440: 8436: 8432: 8428: 8424: 8419: 8415: 8411: 8407: 8406: 8402: 8397: 8396: 8395: 8391: 8387: 8382: 8378: 8374: 8370: 8366: 8361: 8356: 8351: 8350: 8349: 8345: 8341: 8337: 8334: 8331: 8326: 8320: 8315: 8314: 8309: 8308: 8304: 8300: 8288: 8284: 8280: 8276: 8272: 8268: 8264: 8260: 8256: 8252: 8249: 8245: 8241: 8237: 8233: 8232: 8227: 8223: 8215: 8214: 8210: 8206: 8193: 8192: 8183: 8182: 8173: 8172: 8163: 8162: 8157: 8152: 8128: 8124: 8120: 8115: 8112: 8108: 8107: 8103: 8097: 8096: 8095: 8091: 8087: 8080: 8075: 8074: 8073: 8072: 8071: 8070: 8069: 8068: 8067: 8066: 8051: 8047: 8043: 8039: 8034: 8030: 8027: 8022: 8018: 8014: 8013: 8008: 8003: 8002: 8001: 7997: 7993: 7989: 7985: 7981: 7975: 7970: 7969: 7968: 7967: 7966: 7965: 7954: 7950: 7946: 7941: 7937: 7933: 7932: 7931: 7930: 7929: 7928: 7915: 7914: 7913: 7912: 7911: 7910: 7897: 7894: 7890: 7886: 7882: 7879: 7875: 7870: 7866: 7865: 7860: 7855: 7854: 7853: 7852: 7845: 7841: 7837: 7833: 7832:section below 7829: 7826: 7823: 7820: 7815: 7810: 7809: 7802: 7798: 7794: 7790: 7786: 7782: 7779: 7776: 7772: 7768: 7767: 7762: 7759: 7758: 7754: 7750: 7743: 7721: 7717: 7713: 7706: 7701: 7700: 7699: 7695: 7691: 7684: 7679: 7678: 7677: 7676: 7675: 7674: 7673: 7672: 7671: 7670: 7657: 7653: 7649: 7644: 7640: 7636: 7632: 7627: 7623: 7619: 7616: 7614: 7610: 7606: 7601: 7597: 7596: 7592: 7587: 7586: 7585: 7581: 7577: 7573: 7572: 7571: 7570: 7569: 7568: 7553: 7550: 7546: 7542: 7539: 7538: 7533: 7528: 7527: 7526: 7525: 7524: 7523: 7514: 7510: 7506: 7501: 7500: 7499: 7498: 7485: 7481: 7477: 7473: 7469: 7465: 7461: 7460: 7457: 7452: 7447: 7446: 7445: 7444: 7439: 7430: 7426: 7422: 7418: 7417: 7409: 7402: 7397: 7396: 7391: 7390: 7386: 7382: 7377: 7375: 7371: 7370: 7364: 7360: 7356: 7352: 7351:international 7349: 7344: 7331: 7328: 7324: 7320: 7315: 7312: 7308: 7305: 7302: 7298: 7295: 7291: 7288: 7285: 7280: 7276: 7273: 7270: 7266: 7263: 7258: 7256: 7252: 7251: 7246: 7244: 7214: 7210: 7206: 7202: 7201: 7200: 7196: 7192: 7187: 7186: 7185: 7181: 7177: 7173: 7171: 7167: 7163: 7158: 7157:history merge 7154: 7153: 7152: 7148: 7144: 7139: 7135: 7131: 7130:peer reviewed 7127: 7126: 7125: 7121: 7117: 7113: 7107: 7104: 7100: 7099: 7097: 7096: 7095: 7091: 7087: 7083: 7077: 7073: 7072: 7070: 7069: 7064: 7063: 7059: 7055: 7030: 7026: 7022: 7018: 7017: 7016: 7015: 7014: 7013: 7004: 7000: 6996: 6992: 6991: 6990: 6986: 6982: 6978: 6977: 6970: 6966: 6962: 6958: 6951: 6946: 6945: 6940: 6939: 6935: 6931: 6927: 6905: 6901: 6897: 6890: 6885: 6884: 6883: 6879: 6875: 6871: 6866: 6862: 6856: 6851: 6850: 6842: 6838: 6834: 6829: 6826: 6823: 6820: 6816: 6813: 6808: 6804: 6803: 6798: 6795: 6790: 6783: 6782: 6778: 6774: 6762: 6758: 6754: 6749: 6740: 6736: 6732: 6729: 6725: 6721: 6718: 6715: 6711: 6708: 6702: 6697: 6696: 6695: 6694: 6693: 6692: 6691: 6690: 6679: 6675: 6671: 6666: 6661: 6658: 6654: 6653:bullet points 6649: 6646: 6642: 6637: 6633: 6627: 6622: 6621: 6620: 6616: 6612: 6607: 6601: 6596: 6595: 6594: 6590: 6586: 6581: 6574: 6569: 6568: 6563: 6562: 6558: 6554: 6548: 6544: 6539: 6518: 6514: 6510: 6506: 6499: 6494: 6493: 6488: 6487: 6483: 6479: 6475: 6471: 6451: 6447: 6443: 6439: 6438: 6433: 6417: 6416: 6412: 6408: 6405: 6384: 6380: 6376: 6372: 6371: 6366: 6365: 6361: 6357: 6337: 6334: 6329: 6325: 6318: 6317: 6312: 6311: 6307: 6303: 6298: 6280: 6276: 6272: 6268: 6267: 6262: 6260: 6256: 6252: 6248: 6231: 6230: 6226: 6222: 6221:50.247.98.197 6201: 6198: 6193: 6189: 6182: 6181: 6176: 6174: 6170: 6166: 6165:82.166.131.89 6162: 6142: 6140: 6136: 6132: 6128: 6108: 6105: 6103: 6099: 6095: 6091: 6087: 6066: 6065: 6061: 6057: 6038: 6037: 6033: 6029: 6011: 6010: 6006: 6002: 5988: 5986: 5983: 5980: 5969: 5967: 5964: 5963: 5960: 5957: 5955: 5952: 5949: 5938: 5936: 5933: 5932: 5929: 5928:Come Together 5926: 5924: 5921: 5918: 5907: 5905: 5902: 5901: 5898: 5895: 5893: 5890: 5887: 5876: 5874: 5871: 5870: 5867: 5864: 5862: 5859: 5856: 5845: 5843: 5840: 5839: 5836: 5833: 5831: 5828: 5825: 5814: 5812: 5809: 5808: 5805: 5802: 5800: 5797: 5794: 5783: 5781: 5778: 5777: 5774: 5771: 5769: 5766: 5763: 5752: 5750: 5747: 5746: 5743: 5740: 5738: 5735: 5732: 5721: 5719: 5716: 5715: 5709: 5706: 5703: 5692: 5690: 5687: 5686: 5683: 5680: 5678: 5675: 5672: 5661: 5659: 5656: 5655: 5652: 5649: 5647: 5644: 5641: 5630: 5628: 5625: 5624: 5621: 5618: 5616: 5613: 5610: 5599: 5597: 5594: 5593: 5590: 5587: 5585: 5582: 5579: 5568: 5566: 5563: 5562: 5559: 5556: 5554: 5551: 5548: 5537: 5535: 5532: 5531: 5528: 5525: 5523: 5520: 5517: 5506: 5504: 5501: 5500: 5497: 5494: 5492: 5489: 5486: 5475: 5473: 5470: 5469: 5465: 5462: 5460:Host country 5459: 5456: 5455: 5443: 5442: 5441: 5437: 5431: 5425: 5421: 5420: 5410: 5408: 5405: 5402: 5391: 5389: 5386: 5385: 5382: 5379: 5377: 5374: 5371: 5360: 5358: 5355: 5354: 5351: 5350:Come Together 5348: 5346: 5343: 5340: 5329: 5327: 5324: 5323: 5320: 5317: 5315: 5312: 5309: 5298: 5296: 5293: 5292: 5289: 5286: 5284: 5281: 5278: 5267: 5265: 5262: 5261: 5258: 5255: 5253: 5250: 5247: 5236: 5234: 5231: 5230: 5227: 5224: 5222: 5219: 5216: 5205: 5203: 5200: 5199: 5196: 5193: 5191: 5188: 5185: 5174: 5172: 5169: 5168: 5165: 5162: 5160: 5157: 5154: 5143: 5141: 5138: 5137: 5131: 5128: 5125: 5114: 5112: 5109: 5108: 5105: 5102: 5100: 5097: 5094: 5083: 5081: 5078: 5077: 5074: 5071: 5069: 5066: 5063: 5052: 5050: 5047: 5046: 5043: 5040: 5038: 5035: 5032: 5021: 5019: 5016: 5015: 5012: 5009: 5007: 5004: 5001: 4990: 4988: 4985: 4984: 4981: 4978: 4976: 4973: 4970: 4959: 4957: 4954: 4953: 4950: 4947: 4945: 4942: 4939: 4928: 4926: 4923: 4922: 4919: 4916: 4914: 4911: 4908: 4897: 4895: 4892: 4891: 4887: 4884: 4882:Host country 4881: 4878: 4877: 4867: 4866: 4861: 4860: 4857: 4856: 4839: 4837: 4834: 4831: 4820: 4818: 4815: 4814: 4811: 4808: 4806: 4803: 4800: 4789: 4787: 4784: 4783: 4780: 4779:Come Together 4777: 4775: 4772: 4769: 4758: 4756: 4753: 4752: 4749: 4746: 4744: 4741: 4738: 4727: 4725: 4722: 4721: 4718: 4715: 4713: 4710: 4707: 4696: 4694: 4691: 4690: 4687: 4684: 4682: 4679: 4676: 4665: 4663: 4660: 4659: 4656: 4653: 4651: 4648: 4645: 4634: 4632: 4629: 4628: 4625: 4622: 4620: 4617: 4614: 4603: 4601: 4598: 4597: 4594: 4591: 4589: 4586: 4583: 4572: 4570: 4567: 4566: 4560: 4556: 4553: 4550: 4548: 4545: 4542: 4531: 4529: 4526: 4525: 4522: 4519: 4517: 4514: 4511: 4500: 4498: 4495: 4494: 4491: 4488: 4486: 4483: 4480: 4469: 4467: 4464: 4463: 4460: 4457: 4455: 4452: 4449: 4438: 4436: 4433: 4432: 4429: 4426: 4424: 4421: 4418: 4407: 4405: 4402: 4401: 4398: 4395: 4393: 4390: 4387: 4376: 4374: 4371: 4370: 4367: 4364: 4362: 4359: 4356: 4345: 4343: 4340: 4339: 4335: 4332: 4330:Host country 4329: 4326: 4325: 4318: 4316: 4309: 4290: 4289: 4284: 4279: 4278: 4263: 4259: 4256: 4252: 4251: 4246: 4239: 4233: 4229: 4225: 4221: 4215: 4210: 4201: 4195: 4189: 4187: 4183: 4179: 4177: 4173: 4169: 4168: 4163: 4161: 4157: 4153: 4148: 4132: 4131: 4126: 4121: 4120: 4105: 4101: 4098: 4094: 4093: 4088: 4081: 4075: 4071: 4067: 4063: 4057: 4052: 4043: 4039: 4035: 4033: 4029: 4025: 4023: 4019: 4015: 4013: 4009: 4005: 4003: 3999: 3997: 3993: 3992: 3987: 3985: 3981: 3977: 3972: 3956: 3955: 3951: 3947: 3946: 3942: 3936: 3934: 3929: 3926: 3923: 3917: 3905: 3895: 3894: 3889: 3884: 3883: 3868: 3864: 3861: 3857: 3856: 3851: 3844: 3838: 3834: 3830: 3826: 3820: 3815: 3806: 3802: 3798: 3797: 3792: 3790: 3786: 3782: 3777: 3758: 3754: 3750: 3746: 3745: 3740: 3738: 3734: 3730: 3710: 3706: 3705: 3700: 3692: 3691: 3686: 3685: 3679: 3672: 3661: 3657: 3654: 3650: 3649: 3644: 3643: 3631: 3629: 3625: 3614: 3610: 3606: 3604: 3600: 3596: 3594: 3590: 3586: 3584: 3580: 3576: 3575: 3570: 3566: 3558: 3552: 3548: 3543: 3525: 3524: 3519: 3515: 3511: 3510: 3505: 3504: 3500: 3499: 3494: 3486: 3481: 3477: 3473: 3469: 3462: 3438: 3437: 3432: 3423: 3422: 3421: 3420: 3417: 3413: 3412: 3407: 3394: 3393: 3392: 3391: 3390: 3389: 3388: 3387: 3376: 3372: 3371: 3366: 3357: 3356: 3351: 3348: 3345: 3342: 3339: 3336: 3335: 3331: 3330: 3323: 3317: 3311: 3305: 3299: 3298: 3291: 3286: 3285: 3284: 3283: 3278: 3269: 3268: 3267: 3263: 3262: 3257: 3244: 3240: 3234: 3229: 3228: 3223: 3222: 3221: 3216: 3207: 3186: 3179: 3175: 3173: 3162: 3157: 3156: 3155: 3154: 3150: 3146: 3138: 3134: 3130: 3125: 3123: 3119: 3115: 3111: 3109: 3106: 3101: 3096: 3089: 3086: 3085: 3065: 3061: 3057: 3054:Let it rest.- 3053: 3052: 3051: 3047: 3045: 3037: 3033: 3031: 3027: 3023: 3019: 3017: 3013: 3012: 3011: 3007: 3005: 2997: 2996: 2990: 2989: 2988: 2984: 2980: 2976: 2975: 2974: 2970: 2968: 2960: 2956: 2952: 2951: 2950: 2946: 2942: 2938: 2935: 2934: 2932: 2928: 2924: 2920: 2916: 2915: 2914: 2913: 2909: 2905: 2904:79.223.26.113 2900: 2898: 2891: 2880: 2876: 2874: 2856: 2839: 2838: 2835: 2833: 2832: 2827: 2819: 2812: 2808: 2804: 2793: 2789: 2785: 2784:SchirmerPower 2780: 2779: 2774: 2773: 2769: 2765: 2761: 2760:third opinion 2748: 2727: 2723: 2719: 2718:79.223.26.113 2715: 2711: 2710: 2709: 2708: 2701: 2697: 2695: 2684: 2679: 2678: 2669: 2665: 2663: 2655: 2654: 2652: 2648: 2644: 2643:79.223.26.113 2640: 2634: 2630: 2629: 2624: 2623: 2619: 2617: 2607: 2602: 2595: 2566: 2562: 2558: 2554: 2553: 2552: 2548: 2546: 2538: 2534: 2529: 2528: 2527: 2523: 2519: 2515: 2514: 2513: 2512: 2508: 2506: 2486: 2482: 2480: 2471: 2467: 2465: 2461: 2457: 2453: 2452: 2451: 2447: 2445: 2437: 2436: 2435: 2431: 2427: 2423: 2420: 2419: 2418: 2414: 2412: 2401: 2394: 2393: 2392: 2388: 2384: 2380: 2379: 2378: 2377: 2373: 2371: 2350: 2346: 2342: 2338: 2337: 2336: 2332: 2330: 2319: 2312: 2308: 2306: 2302: 2296: 2294: 2287: 2286: 2285: 2281: 2277: 2273: 2270: 2267: 2266: 2265: 2261: 2259: 2248: 2243: 2242: 2241: 2237: 2233: 2229: 2226: 2225: 2224: 2220: 2218: 2210: 2206: 2205:WP:AVOIDABUSE 2201: 2198: 2193: 2189: 2188: 2183: 2179: 2175: 2171: 2170: 2169: 2168: 2163: 2159: 2154: 2153: 2145: 2144: 2140: 2136: 2123: 2120: 2116: 2112: 2108: 2104: 2100: 2099: 2094: 2085:91's Position 2070: 2066: 2064: 2056: 2052: 2048: 2044: 2040: 2036: 2032: 2028: 2024: 2023: 2022: 2018: 2014: 2013:79.223.26.113 2010: 2007: 2006: 2005: 2001: 1999: 1991: 1987: 1982: 1981: 1980: 1976: 1972: 1971:79.223.26.113 1967: 1963: 1959: 1955: 1953: 1949: 1945: 1944:79.223.26.113 1941: 1940: 1935: 1934: 1930: 1928: 1920: 1916: 1891: 1887: 1883: 1878: 1875: 1872: 1868: 1865: 1862: 1861: 1860: 1856: 1854: 1843: 1842:edit conflict 1838: 1837: 1836: 1832: 1828: 1823: 1822: 1821: 1817: 1815: 1807: 1800: 1793: 1792: 1791: 1788: 1786: 1780: 1776: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1766: 1762: 1758: 1754: 1751: 1747: 1743: 1737: 1733: 1731: 1722: 1718: 1712: 1706: 1705: 1704: 1701: 1699: 1693: 1689: 1685: 1681: 1677: 1676: 1675: 1674: 1670: 1668: 1658: 1657: 1653: 1651: 1643: 1639: 1624: 1620: 1616: 1612: 1608: 1605: 1602: 1598: 1595: 1594: 1593: 1589: 1587: 1574: 1570: 1566: 1557: 1556: 1555: 1551: 1547: 1542: 1538: 1535: 1531: 1526: 1523: 1519: 1516: 1513: 1512: 1511: 1507: 1505: 1496: 1492: 1488: 1487: 1484: 1480: 1476: 1470: 1469: 1468: 1467: 1463: 1459: 1458:79.223.19.149 1454: 1450: 1444: 1440: 1438: 1429: 1425: 1421: 1420: 1415: 1411: 1407: 1406:79.223.19.149 1402: 1399: 1398: 1397: 1393: 1391: 1382: 1378: 1376: 1371: 1369: 1363: 1362: 1358: 1354: 1350: 1346: 1342: 1336: 1332: 1331: 1326: 1318: 1310: 1306: 1302: 1301:79.223.19.149 1298: 1294: 1293: 1292: 1288: 1286: 1278: 1274: 1270: 1265: 1262: 1256: 1251: 1250: 1249: 1248: 1244: 1240: 1235: 1234: 1226: 1222: 1220: 1212: 1207: 1204: 1200: 1199: 1198: 1197: 1193: 1189: 1177: 1173: 1171: 1162: 1161: 1158: 1154: 1150: 1144: 1142: 1138: 1134: 1130: 1129: 1128: 1124: 1122: 1114: 1110: 1106: 1100: 1095: 1094: 1093: 1092: 1088: 1084: 1063: 1061: 1057: 1053: 1049: 1026: 1022: 1020: 1012: 1007: 1006: 1005: 1001: 997: 993: 990: 986: 983: 979: 975: 972: 971: 970: 966: 964: 956: 955:core policies 951: 947: 944: 940: 936: 932: 928: 927: 926: 925: 921: 917: 913: 910:@Wes: Please 906: 902: 898: 894: 893: 892: 891: 887: 885: 875: 873: 854: 850: 846: 842: 841: 840: 836: 834: 826: 825: 824:keep it civil 818: 817:79.223.27.221 812: 811: 810: 809: 808: 807: 806: 805: 804: 803: 798: 794: 789: 788: 784: 783: 779: 775: 766: 762: 758: 754: 753: 752: 748: 746: 738: 737: 736: 735: 731: 727: 716: 712: 708: 707:79.223.27.221 704: 703: 702: 698: 696: 688: 684: 683: 682: 681: 676: 672: 668: 667:79.223.27.221 663: 662: 661: 657: 653: 649: 648: 647: 646: 642: 638: 634: 629: 625: 618: 615: 611: 608: 605: 604: 603: 600: 592: 590: 586: 582: 578: 566: 562: 558: 557:82.68.159.246 553: 552: 551: 547: 543: 538: 537: 536: 535: 531: 527: 521: 517: 513: 497: 493: 489: 485: 484: 483: 482: 478: 476: 468: 453: 449: 445: 441: 438: 435: 434: 433: 429: 427: 418: 417: 416: 412: 408: 404: 401: 397: 394: 393: 392: 388: 386: 378: 374: 370: 369: 368: 364: 360: 356: 355: 354: 353: 349: 347: 339: 335: 320: 316: 312: 308: 307: 306: 302: 300: 292: 291: 290: 286: 282: 278: 277: 276: 272: 270: 262: 261: 260:be aggressive 256: 255: 254:keep it civil 248: 247:79.223.27.221 242: 241: 240: 239: 238: 237: 232: 228: 223: 222: 216: 212: 208: 207:79.223.27.221 204: 203: 202: 201: 197: 193: 175: 171: 169: 161: 160: 157: 153: 152:46.246.211.80 149: 144: 140: 136: 132: 131: 130: 127: 123: 122: 121: 118: 117: 112: 105: 104: 103: 101: 97: 93: 89: 72: 68: 66: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 11524: 11488: 11438:Sims2aholic8 11331: 11287:Sims2aholic8 11230:Sims2aholic8 11185:Sims2aholic8 11086:Sims2aholic8 10897: 10872:Sims2aholic8 10832:Sims2aholic8 10530:Sims2aholic8 10516:Sims2aholic8 10474:Sims2aholic8 10425:Sims2aholic8 10347: 10308:Bonnie Tyler 10296:Bonnie Tyler 10206:Sims2aholic8 10165:Sims2aholic8 10046:The list of 9981:Sims2aholic8 9963:Sims2aholic8 9926:Sims2aholic8 9900:Sims2aholic8 9773:Sims2aholic8 9765: 9761: 9754: 9750: 9746: 9742: 9362: 9337: 9314: 9273: 9190: 9186: 9126:well written 9125: 9107: 9106: 9093: 9059: 9032: 9021: 9011: 9010: 8993: 8978:Instructions 8919: 8896:Sims2aholic8 8873: 8853:article size 8850: 8824: 8784: 8771:Sims2aholic8 8762: 8735: 8726: 8722: 8684:Sims2aholic8 8669:Sims2aholic8 8608:Sims2aholic8 8593:Sims2aholic8 8562: 8544:Sims2aholic8 8540: 8509:Sims2aholic8 8401:Sims2aholic8 8376: 8372: 8368: 8364: 8355:Sims2aholic8 8340:Sims2aholic8 8329: 8297: 8247: 8243: 8239: 8236:participants 8235: 8222:Sims2aholic8 8216: 8205:Sims2aholic8 8202: 8147: 8110: 8102:Sims2aholic8 8086:Sims2aholic8 8037: 8025: 8007:Sims2aholic8 7992:Sims2aholic8 7892: 7888: 7877: 7873: 7859:Sims2aholic8 7836:Sims2aholic8 7760: 7742:Sims2aholic8 7738: 7705:Sims2aholic8 7612: 7608: 7605:broadcasting 7604: 7603: 7599: 7591:Sims2aholic8 7451:Sims2aholic8 7437: 7378: 7373: 7366: 7362: 7354: 7350: 7347: 7345: 7340: 7326: 7322: 7318: 7313: 7306: 7300: 7296: 7289: 7283: 7275:Euroradio - 7274: 7268: 7264: 7261: 7253: 7243:Sims2aholic8 7240: 7205:Sims2aholic8 7176:Sims2aholic8 7162:Sims2aholic8 7138:Good Article 7116:Sims2aholic8 7054:Sims2aholic8 7050: 7021:Sims2aholic8 6981:Sims2aholic8 6961:Sims2aholic8 6923: 6889:Sims2aholic8 6874:Sims2aholic8 6811: 6806: 6796: 6789:Sims2aholic8 6784: 6769: 6753:Sims2aholic8 6635: 6626:Sims2aholic8 6600:Sims2aholic8 6585:Sims2aholic8 6549: 6545: 6538:Sims2aholic8 6534: 6467: 6431: 6407:Vauxhall1964 6400: 6353: 6320: 6299: 6296: 6249: 6245: 6217: 6184: 6159:— Preceding 6156: 6125:— Preceding 6122: 6106: 6084:— Preceding 6080: 6052: 6025: 5998: 5958: 5927: 5896: 5865: 5834: 5803: 5772: 5741: 5681: 5651:True Fantasy 5650: 5619: 5588: 5557: 5526: 5495: 5429:nihlus kryik 5423: 5380: 5349: 5318: 5287: 5256: 5225: 5194: 5163: 5103: 5073:True Fantasy 5072: 5041: 5010: 4979: 4948: 4917: 4851: 4849: 4809: 4778: 4747: 4716: 4685: 4654: 4623: 4592: 4551: 4521:True Fantasy 4520: 4489: 4458: 4427: 4396: 4365: 4314: 4304: 4274: 4271: 4238:source check 4217: 4211: 4208: 4149: 4146: 4116: 4113: 4080:source check 4059: 4053: 4050: 3973: 3970: 3944: 3940: 3937: 3930: 3927: 3913: 3879: 3876: 3843:source check 3822: 3816: 3813: 3778: 3775: 3726: 3695: 3669: 3641: 3632: 3627: 3623: 3621: 3544: 3541: 3520: 3489: 3479: 3457: 3433: 3402: 3361: 3279: 3252: 3217: 3203: 3184: 3168: 3161:Vauxhall1964 3145:Vauxhall1964 3141: 3087: 3056:91.10.62.211 3040: 3036:wikihounding 3022:91.10.62.211 3000: 2993: 2979:91.10.62.211 2963: 2941:91.10.62.211 2922: 2918: 2901: 2894: 2885: 2869: 2851: 2830: 2824: 2800: 2757: 2713: 2690: 2658: 2637:— Preceding 2612: 2608: 2591: 2557:91.10.30.120 2541: 2518:91.10.30.120 2501: 2497: 2475: 2456:91.10.30.120 2440: 2426:91.10.30.120 2407: 2383:91.10.30.120 2366: 2363: 2341:91.10.30.120 2325: 2304: 2300: 2298: 2292: 2290: 2276:91.10.30.120 2254: 2247:91.10.30.120 2232:91.10.30.120 2213: 2208: 2186: 2185: 2135:91.10.30.120 2132: 2092: 2059: 2030: 1994: 1965: 1961: 1957: 1923: 1918: 1912: 1882:91.10.30.120 1870: 1849: 1827:91.10.30.120 1810: 1784: 1761:91.10.30.120 1749: 1726: 1697: 1663: 1659: 1646: 1635: 1615:91.10.30.120 1610: 1582: 1564: 1546:91.10.30.120 1529: 1521: 1517: 1500: 1494: 1491:civil please 1479:5.56.181.144 1473:— Preceding 1455: 1451: 1447: 1433: 1386: 1381:Soviet Union 1373: 1365: 1353:East Germany 1345:West Germany 1338: 1333:Please read 1296: 1281: 1272: 1268: 1261:written here 1255:Vauxhall1964 1239:Vauxhall1964 1236: 1229: 1215: 1210: 1188:Vauxhall1964 1184: 1166: 1147:— Preceding 1117: 1099:Vauxhall1964 1083:Vauxhall1964 1079: 1052:88.89.54.250 1046:— Preceding 1043: 1015: 1010: 996:91.10.30.120 987:"If it is a 981: 977: 959: 916:91.10.30.120 911: 909: 897:91.10.30.120 880: 868: 865: 845:91.10.30.120 829: 822: 774:91.10.62.211 771: 757:91.10.62.211 741: 726:91.10.62.211 723: 691: 652:NewKingsRoad 632: 630: 626: 622: 613: 601: 598: 581:88.97.75.156 575:— Preceding 571: 522: 518: 514: 510: 488:91.10.30.120 471: 464: 444:91.10.30.120 422: 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