1677:"Fill in the nationality of the film as identified in the lead of the article. The nationality of the film should be backed up with a reliable source. The source must clearly identify the nationality in a descriptive capacity, as in describing it as an American or a French film/movie etc, or in a contextual capacity such as the BFI's list of top 100 "British films" or as an example in a published work on German film etc. Sources that simply identify the country of origin as France, or the production country as U.S. etc such as is the case with resources like Allmovie and IMDb is not sufficient identification of the film's nationality. If there is a conflict between nationalities, then the nationality should not be stated and the country field should not be filled in."
1782:"Fill in the nationality of the film as identified in the lead of the article." — This suggests that there should be harmony between the lead and the infobox with respect to nationality. The first sentence identifies it as an American film, yet the infobox presents it as a multinational production involving 5 different countries (and if the film country templates are used, the categories at the bottom of the page identify it as a British film, a Czech film, a Canadian film, and a German film). This is a contradiction that will likely confuse readers (to call it American in the lead and call it by 4 other nationalities elsewhere in the article). --
1683:
Both of the primary production studios (Davis & Brandywine) as well as the distributor (20th
Century Fox) are American companies. Since it was filmed primarily in the Czech Republic, one expects to see some mention of a Czech company in very detailed production credits, but this doesn't make it a "Czech film". If so many countries are potentially to be listed, we should simply leave the field out of the infobox (and the nationality out of the lead sentence) in order to simplify things for readers. Since nationality isn't an intrinsic characteristic of this film, it really doesn't bear mentioning in such a prominent place. --
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1932:"there's nothing at all Czech or German about it". That's a pretty bold statement because there is actually production companies involved with this film. Missing a production company is an important as missing a screenwriter or director. If you want to fill in the lead with a production country go right ahead, I'm not sure what to place there now because we have so many countries involved. I just know flat-out "American" isn't appropriate anymore. I'd be happy to help find a solution to that problem, but I also don't want incorrect information to be posted there either. Perhaps
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there. It was filmed in the Czech
Republic, so obviously a Czech company had some involvement, but that's a tangential connection at best. Something you'd expect to see in a finely-detailed list of every country involved in financing and producing the film in any way, but not something you'd expect to see in a synopsis of key details. --
1910:"rule", which starts off "Fill in the nationality of the film as identified in the lead of the article": I see you took it upon yourself to remove mention of nationality from the lead, despite insisting on listing 5 nationalities in the infobox. If you're that attached to this "rule" then you'd have to say "
1796:
Yes but you aren't supposed to have citations in the lead either. This contradicts many of wikipedia's rules. I'm a bit flustered with it here and I'm thinking the talk page of the infobox article is a better place to discuss it. Feel free to revert it to nothing or leave it as
American here for now.
1950:
What I mean is, to anyone watching the film, there's no Czeck-ness or German-ness about it: No Cezch or German actors or characters, not set in either of those countries, not written or directed by Czechs or
Germans, etc. The only connection to Germany is that some money came in from a company based
1682:
The lead identifies this as an
American film. The site referenced merely lists production countries, it does not "identify the nationality in a descriptive or contextual capacity". A list of 5 countries is too long and will only serve to confuse readers ("What about this film is Czech or German?").
2085:
says US / GB / CZ / DE / CA (where GB has "inc" which apparently means "incoming investment"). Perhaps in prose, call it a multinational production with the involvement of all five countries, and reference AFI, BFI, and
Lumiere? In the infobox, list all five and have an inline citation listing all
1909:
Because I more or less agreed with the "rule" before it was changed. I'm not so jazzed about it if it means we have to list 5 countries and categorize this as a "Czech film", "German film", etc. when there's nothing at all Czech or German about it. Besides, it's still not entirely following the
1858:
Even though it's new, and you are going against the policy of what should be there for person reasons then it is considered vandalism. I'm not going to call you on it, but people just reverting it proclaiming that there's still discussion going on about it (there isn't) or wait for standards to
1709:
film was only a
Canadian-Germany production for example. Just because it's confusing for a user, doesn't mean you don't list it. As there is conflict, I think it should either list all of these, or none at all. I stand by my statements that it does suggest more to put them all
1824:
As per new infobox standards we are to list all the countries in the production now. Please do not revert this edit or change the countries without discussing it first. It now going by wikipedia standard and changing it will be considered vandalism.
2065:
So each source states at least UK (3) Czech (4), Germany (4), Canada (3), US (3). Production companies are all over the map. Quick research does not state much of how these companies were involved otherwise. Whats the solution here?
2026:: says: UK / Czech / Canada / Germany (Davis Entertainment (London), Brandywine Productions (US) in co-production with: Lonlink, Stillking Films (Prag), Kut Films, Babelsberg Film GmbH (Potsdam-Babelsberg) Inside Track 2LLP )
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1732:) is a 2004 American-British-Czech-Canadian-German science fiction film..." which will just confuse the hell out of readers. Since the film in and of itself has no strong national ties (as do, say,
1724:
Like I said, if so many are potentially to be listed then it would be be easier on readers to simply leave the field out altogether. Otherwise we must harmonize the lead with the infobox by saying "
1895:, it should be followed. Your first complaint was that it wasn't following the rules of the infobox, but now that it's changed, you say it's not worth following? At least stick with your argument.
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1859:
change (they have changed) is a little more than frustrating. Unless you have reasons to find my citation false or against the statement on infobox film, please don't revert it anymore. Cheers.
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and other media on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can edit one of the articles mentioned below, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and contribute to the
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That is outrageous. Vandalism depends on the intention of a person making an edit. Even if the change itself is not helpful, an edit is not vandalism so long as the person making it doesn't
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1918:) is a 2004 American-British-Czech-Canadian-German science fiction film...". You can't claim something is a standard or rule if you're only choosing to follow the parts of it you like. --
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1877:. Far from it, in fact. I stand by my prior comment that if so many are potentially to be listed then it would be be easier on readers to simply leave the field out altogether. --
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As this film seems to have a bit of a big list of production countries, I've browsed around for details from each potentials countries datbases based in their own countries.
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1768:
If there's so many in the infobox, than don't bother with it in the lead. I don't know why we'd have to re-post it twice as we don't re-post the film length's twice either.
1626:
I've updated the production countries. The country status written in quote on the page is not up to date with the current standards of the infobox film template. Both the
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It does if you delve further where it actually tells you what companies aided with production. For example, it lists
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Anonymous editors often delete budget figures when a range is presented, so I'm mentioning it here to make it clear that both numbers should be maintained. --
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A mess indeed! I've re-added them to the infobox per your suggestion, but am sort of struggling to find a decent way of explaining this in the prose...
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Production companies: Davis
Entertainment Company, Brandywine Productions. Co-production: Lonlink, Stillking Productions, Kut, Babelsberg Studios
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and its affiliated companies on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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It doesn't need stereotypes of German films or whatnot to be considered a production of that country. It was co-produced by
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
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Czech Film Comission: (Production company, Davis Entertainment, Impact Pictures) USA, Germany, Czech Republic, UK
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AFI: Production Company: (Twentieth Century Fox) United Kingdom, Czech Republic, Canada, Germany, United States
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It is the standard however and what most people will revert it too. Just because it's not repeated in
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BFI Film & Television Database: USA, Great Britain, Czech Republic, Canada, United Germany
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2061:: I can't find any evidence from this site that Canada was involved.
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will need to be changed as well for this situation.
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1873:FWIW, infobox documentation is hardly
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1797:I'll take this up elsewhere. Cheers!
1646:) which is listed as a co-production
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2096:contrib
2083:Lumiere
1638:) and (
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306:Listed
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545:Film
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478:Core
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262:Date
162:FENS
136:news
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