User talk:Shyamal/archive9

675:

Raffles Museum / Singapore. I have all those markers here at home to start a new DNA research here in Germany this time. These markers are proovable all from birds collected near 1900 in Malaysia, f. e. in Sungkai, Korhan Trang, Wimpong or Ulu Pahang. All those skins are of that age and collected by hunting, so we can be sure that nothing was mixed before in humans hands. That this DNA control had been done before transporting birds to Malaysia was the most importing thing for the WPA, because that would be a large fault to reintroduce birds of wrong ancestors, a noncorrectable fault. I am member of the WPA and have a very critical eye on this project, believe me. Caused by that I have not only friends there, but the project is too important to let it go unwatched. So, all parental birds of the sended material were DNA tested as being pure Malaysian birds, my own birds and those from GB. They were not taken uncontrolled and send to Malaysia, as you might think. The Malaysian Government, the Department of Wildlife and National Parks and the WPA, had set up these regulations before starting the project. You can´t imagine what efforts the WPA did make to have this project running. There were hired many rangers to be responsible in person for each single bird sent there. Aviaries were build and the whole agriculture was changed by the Malaysian government, especiallly for this project. Isn´t that some kind of honourable by the WPA ? I see this positive, expecting the project will work.

682:, it´s fact, that those from Malaysia (extinct now since the 1960s) and those from Java are different. There are even some differences easy to see for nonspecialists, the shape and keeping of the crest is one. But please note that a bird might look different on a photo, the colours green, blue and golden, are always in relation to the existing light and if the photo was taken it might show those in change. These colours are caused by breaking the light into coloured spectrums on the feathers surface, and changing the photographical position very little can bring a complete different view of the colour. For example, sometimes the head colour looks very blue, and after turning around it looks complete green, the same is at the wing covers and the neck colour. What I want to say is, that it is very complicated to rate a bird by photos. You must see it in nature. 847:

there will be many other persons who did researchings on that large numbers of museum skins and live birds around the world as I did. And additionally I had several chances to get pure birds in 3 subspecies from southeast asia, what were the base of my private conservation project in breeding them. Today I gathered a large group of friends and breeders around me, who are cooperating with me in doing this work. The final tip of this private project was set some years ago by the WPA international in founding the socalled Focusgroup Green Peafowl, that forces aims in international strains that were only private before. Now we have the chance to work worldwide for conservation of Green Peafowl, even reintroducing them.

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gone down. In some original habitats it has already become extinct, for e.g. in bangladesh and Malaysia, in most other areas it is in danger. According to official counts only 5000 to 10000 specimens exist in the wild today. Reasons are shrinking habitat, and hunting. It resides in half open country forest and bushy land, mostly in wide river valleys, the areas important to humans also for the same reasons! Observations of wild green fowl have shown that the bird leaves and does not return to areas where it encounters humans. Its just a question of time before this bird becomes extinct in the wild. In the past scientifically the families of green fowl was subdivided in three subspecies:

478:(LIPI) on their website asking if there's any update about recent status of Green Peafowl, since most of Indonesian science-related book are issued by them. No reply from them so far. I doubt it though, if there's new species of peafowl. Peafowls are well studied. Nobody mentioned if there's "new" subspecies or species but one member of German WPA (In German language, I wish there's an english translation and to noted above comment: Wolfgang Mennig is one of the most foremost authorities on Green Peafowl -: --> 1271:

family who managed to scale a fort, previously deemed impregnable, by fastening a cord around the body of a ghorpad or iguana. All that is authentically known of the history of the family is that it held a high position at the court of Bijapur, from which it received the lands it still holds. The Mudhol chiefs were the most determined opponents of Sivaji during his early conquests ; but on the overthrow of the Muhammadan power they joined the Marathas, and accepted a military command from the Peshwa.

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just over a year ago when Ed spoke on this very point, in response to a question, and when he said very clearly that he believed St Mary Cray was Hume's birthplace. And of course Ed wrote the DNB article which repeats this view. It would be odd indeed to think that you were quoting Moulton in opposition to himself! It is true however I think that there is no direct evidence so who knows what the truth may be.

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my person, so please let me get those informations about you too. As it seems you should have basical knowledge about subspecies of Green Peafowl. From where did you receive your informations ? Are they self owned by experiences or did you find out something by using others comments ? This should be no negative rating, but as I found some comments of you, that forces me to believe that they were adopted by you.

738:"The Malaysian and the Javan varieties were considered genetically identical and were grouped under the scientific name Pavo muticus muticus. This is not the case anymore. The two varieties are genetically different and the Javan variety even has two genetically different varieties of its own, the (Udjon-Kulon-Form/south western Java + Baluran-Form/eastern Java)." 346:

catalogues). However finding Cyrillic presents many name (priority) problems, especially if works were translated much later. I will rewrite this stub which was prompted by needing another Russian for my Timeline.I also need a Japanese.Do you know of any prominent Japanese entomologists whose details can be found in English? And Indian of course. Very impressed

557:. It adds that the Yunnan birds may possibly merit ssp recognition. I have no other major reference for this group. It is my preference to stick to a widely accepted taxonomy rather than go out on a controversial and speculative limb. Perhaps if the issues, despite good faith, cannot be resolved here, it should be widened to ToL discussion. 857:

birds in Java or somewhere else ? I did, and doing this permanent furthermore, it´s a part of my private work. I think you don´t have to call my attention on several subspecies of Green Peafowl because I am part of that international specialist group for years, that is working to publish statements you found about subspecies.

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very blue head. Delacour relied on very unreliable methods of recognizing a new sub/species. He thought that any green-coloured peafowl should be considered conspecific. I cited the Common Teal to try to prove appearances of a "species" can be misleading. Many now think the North American race is more related to the

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And it's not the birds of Indonesia that should be researched, but the Imperators of indo-china. I see key differences in the birds mentioned in the gallery, the blue head of the annamese, the differences of the Javan from Malay Pahang. Anyway, as I always go about controversies: "There is no evidence that there

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Science does indeed involve a good deal of cautious scepticism, whatever else you might term it. I encourage you to consider writing to scientists who may know more, and in the end, yes, it is about getting the best possible evidence regardless of the results. Knowledge verifiability is about whether

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Shivaji and there is even a title Ghorpade which is derived from the monitor. (We even have some naturalists with that name!) The grip of a monitor is however vastly over-rated and larger individuals are not very arboreal. There is no evolutionary advantage for a species like that to be able to cling

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Right - I just wanted to emphasize that he worked primarily with En, NEn and SEn (A&N) taxa. BTW, beautiful Avian drawings !! And do consider joining the Wikiproject PAs of India - I see that Amartya has invited you already. We are in short supply of editors there as we kick off Feb 1 (today).

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First of all I would like to know who you are and where you are located. I can see at your email that you write from Canada. Are you canadian ? What is forcing you to stay undercover ? I am having problems to cooperate with anonymous writers. So please take this first step. You know everything about

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I found several comments of you in net forums regarding subspecies of green peafowl and in most cases you critisize parts of our work for conservation of pure subspecies. Further you used the guestbook of my HP as base to place your anonymous comments. In principe I would appreceate comments anyway

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I'm not trying to stay undercover. My E-mail tells all (Frank Lin). I am actually quite a young boy, yet through research, I know so much about Green Peafowl. I want to study them when I grow up. I am from Canada. I have only seen Green Peafowl at zoos. I know how good reintroducing them is, but you

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It may be true that he is a private conservationist, but Wolfgang Mennig is part of the WPA. The WPA is very strong-minded about conservation -they reintroduced the Green Peafowl back into Malaysia. Kermit will write a book about Peafowl, publish it and then create an encyclopedia about Galliformes.

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to take additional loads of the kind being suggested. In addition the musculature of reptilian limbs is not suited for the kind of gripping of walls as suggested. I can think of scenarios by which it may indeed be possible to climb a fort, but there are many other reptiles that can do it. As I know

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I believe Delacour's taxonomy was very misleading (see my user page's conclusion). He had a skin of a strange golden Green Peafowl and he thought it was just an mere "individual variation" when the strange plumage occurs in many peafowl of Cambodia, Vietnam, Laos, and Thailand. That bird also had a

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names. These should not be confused for terms used for populations (subspecies) in the wild, which are generally researched by local researchers. There are numerous ornithological researchers in India who have studied Indian Peafowl and there must be many in Java, Indonesia and South Asia. What you

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I can't really cite the pages to the notions about the Green Peafowl being several species or the Indian Peafowl having a new subspecies because the sources are often labelled as unreliable (see my user page for links). I can, however, confirm that Kermit Blackwood has many photos of poultry on the

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The chief of Mudhol belongs to the Bhonsle family of the Maratha caste or clan, descended, according to tradition, from a common ancestor with Sivaji the Great. This name, however, has been entirely superseded by the second designation of Ghorpade, which is said to have been acquired by one of the

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Wolfgang Mennig is one of the most foremost authorities on Green Peafowl. He is very strong-minded about conservation, saying hybridisation with the Indian Peafowl is "damned". I agree. Many breeders are cheating by saying they have pure Greens when they have Emerald Spaldings and stuff like that.

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concept is what is in question. Most ornithologists would look for distribution data, information on the isolation factors and sequence data to support whatever you are adding and this is typically usually well researched and published in Journals. Such journals are cited for other bird species on

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On the subject of A O Hume's birthplace, which is of course a trivial detail, I was intrigued to see you quote Ed Moulton on the point. I cannot find my copy of his edition of the Wedderburn book right now, which is I suppose what you were referring to? Anyway just to say that I was at a meeting

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Let me tell you some informations about me. I´m 52 years old and german pheasant breeder since my age of 9. In my life I´ve seen hundreds of Green Peafowl in wildlife and captured birds too. I´m working intensively to find and separate subspecies of them for decades of years. I don´t believe that

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No, the old Malay birds in my breeding are not dead. I have them in the breeding program every year in best health and condition, though the eldest is more that 16 years. I expect ages over 20 if nothing happens by accidents. Indeed, the eldest is the most elegant and beautiful bird we own, he is

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The green peafowl was once native to the whole of south east Asian region from Northeast India to West China, through Bangladesh, Burma, Thailand, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, whole of Malaysia, and occurred also in isolated cases in the island of Java. Today the population of this wonderful bird has

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That was quick.How do you do that?.These English and sometimes French multiple versions of Russian names are a real problem but silly of me not to remember he is usually abbreviated Gr.Grum. .Also I need the Russian name in Cyrillic (this was a huge help in tracing Hymenoptera literature for Type

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I have seen lot of Monitor Lizards in the field, like other cold blooded reptiles they have to bask in the sun in the morning to warm their blood to get active. For this you can see them clinging to verticle rock faces to get maximum exposure from the morning sun rays, have seen also on old fort

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Are you scientist and studied biology, or do you own birds of Green Peafowl in that subspecies, so you are able to comment like this ? I think you have never seen birds of my breeding, or those send to Malaysia. So, why do you comment like this ? Did you have chances to see and research wildlive

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If the birds being reintroduced into Malaysia are the original Malay muticus (Javan is not muticus, it's javanensis), then that is great. I am just concerned that it is different, because of that genetic research you mentioned pointing out they are different, but WPA UK claimed that the Java and

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One of your birds is a Malay. He is so beautiful. I think he was an old one and may already be dead. I do think all your birds are beautiful, even the dull spicifers. Your photo of a muticus displaying is said by some to have some bit of Bokor (Annamese annamensis) in it, as in it is actually a

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I know, because I was involved from the beginning first day, that the birds send to Malaysia were not Javanese birds. All birds were DNA tested before and compare material, called "reference markers", were skin and feather parts from birds of the Museum of Natural History in Tring / England and

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the comment is misleading, all I know that he is a breeder and private conservationist, not authorities), Kermit guy and one Wikipedian. If there's new information about Green Peafowl, I'll give you an update. For now, all I know that there are 3 subspecies of Green Peafowl (not 4, 5, 6 or 10).

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is having a more golden neck as muticus. I had many Annamensis skins in my hands, Muticus too, and was surprised how near they come to Muticus in the colour of the neck. I think for most people there will be no difference between both. I have hundreds of pictures from Museum skins, and many of

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I think the WPA (I have to laugh because Wolfgang Mennig works for the WPA!) accidentally published wrong information about the two being identical. Then reintroductions back to Malaysia began. KIermit Blackwood also confirms the difference between the two, and confirmds the Baluran form being

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Well, what can I say? You need only look up, quote and cite Journals, textbooks or widely cited publications about any new species/subspecies or their identity and distributions. J. Delacour is a rather dated reference and nobody serious would spend time critiquing such a work these days when

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schrieb: The Green Peafowl should be split into several distinct species. Kermit Blackwood said so. The reintroductions into Malaysia are bad - that's the wrong form. The Javan form and the Malay are not identical, you said, but you should also know that both forms have an additional race -

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anstonished myself in having a very golden neck and breast, most of all I saw. And as it seems, it has a longer back toe as others. I could not take measures, because this one bird was enclosed as mounted exemplar, but had this optical impression. All skin pictures on Kermit´s page are of my

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City is just a giant boulder, no fort wall) and this incident is a part of Well documented HISTORY, we all just have to find correct reference and not make comments on how other scientists think, on our own without talking to any reputable scientist studying Monitors or their capabilities.

1222:, they evolved to bask in sun and climb for food. In the field they are seen on vertical rocks and cliffs spread out to catch the early morning sun all the time and anyways it is not for us to "decide", for and on behalf of all mankind, we should rather just study and make new discoveries. 742:

Malay were one and the same, which is not true. I received all the information from you in that German paper. I'm not trying to be negative to you, you are a foremost authority on the Green Peafowl, but I hate the false information from the WPA UK saying that the two were identical.

809:). All my research is from Kermit Blackwood, who you should be aware of as another researcher of Green Peafowl, studying their behaviours (being monogamous, imitating pit vipers in looks), ecology (different habitats, connection with Lophura pheasants), and obviously the taxonomy. 181:

we also need a map, it also has a forest belt of greater then 3000 sq kms around it, which could be included in the Santuary in the years to come. I will try to attach more external links to this article when I find some time as they will help in researching the subject including

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That might cause many mistakes by persons who rate birds after having pictures of them. No picture is able to show the real colours of Green Peafowl. And the lack and shine of special parts of the body will contain often the subspecies. It is not fact, that

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Finally the contact raises up to a form I really like. We can try to exchange informations everyway. You´re welcome. So, you are a young boy, very interesting. I appreceate your wish for studying Green Peafowl very much and hope you will be successfull.

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Did a bit, perhaps overdoing the Viceroy stuff.What do you think?. Need some more refs before I can add more- the obits I've seen so fararen't that great. Anybody else you'd like something on ? Not much time but I'll do my best. Regards from Ireland

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hybrid. I have already sent another E-Mail saying this as well as all the species. You were the one who published the paper, so you should know. I am not trying to criticize you, but there are some who think some of your birds are hybrids.

319:. I have high resolution scans of some six or so Templeton watercolours of Ceylon butterflies which I can send by e-mail (Send this to me).. I'm not sure how to put these into Knowledge Commons but would be very pleased to see them there 1285:

one can find the statements in a suitable primary reference. Scientific verifiability is about whether the possibility exists and whether it is repeatable or falsifiable. The statement as it stands is a good compromise between the two.

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Hello Shyamal, thank you for your message. Regarding Green Peafowl, I can't find any distinct geographic color variant, "new subspecies" or "new species" in any of literature/publications (local nor english). I also tried to contact

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and I wish to invite you to do an online survey about Knowledge. To compensate you for your time, I am offering a reward of USD$ 10, either to you or as a donation to the Wikimedia Foundation. For more information, please go to the

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So please keep back with unfounded criticism and try to help in the same direction if possible. I would appreceate very much to have those questions answered by you. May be we could have same interests and find a way to cooperate.

626:. This is not the case anymore. The two varieties are genetically different and the Javan variety even has two genetically different varieties of its own, the (Udjon-Kulon-Form /south western Java + Baluran-Form /eastern Java). 161: 944: 422:

article is not "verifiable" information in the scientific sense, you have of course given verifiable information in the sense that what you have added is indeed what is present on the links that you have provided. cheers.

405:, where there is a wide distribution, isolation, problems with the use of reproductive isolation as a concept and other fundamentals which you obviously know as a student of biology. Reared birds especially in the 105:

I would have to check what Wiki allows ... but I do for instance have a copy of the portrait of Hume which appears in his "The Nests and Eggs of Indian Birds, 1875" if you think that would be okay.

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Thanks. I rechecked, Montrose, Forfarshire is given by Encyclopaedia Britannica. Moulton's Petronia paper does not mention his birthplace. Any chance of getting a wiki-licensed photograph of Hume ?

1130:, also it was mentioned that cattle herders of the time in the area trained it for taking the rope up to help them climb, there must be some mention of this tradition too in the history pages. 368:

The Red Data book cites a "K. B. Woods". If one sees the kinds of exotic breeds that exist of domestic fowl, it is easy to call them each a species. They are all of course of the same species

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too, but I think you would not be able to find differences. Much more differences are sightable in the skulls shape. The shape of the head is very different, it goes from rounded upwards (

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episode it is not a myth, it is history, if you do find out which I am sure you will in due course please change words like LEGEND or MYTH etc. abouth the episode and the capabilities of

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it, there are no modern examples of this application of Monitors in the fashion in which Monkeys are used for gathering coconuts. All the historic evidence merely states that it is

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I did see the new images. Would have loved a career in a library/museum ! Perhaps what drives me to Knowledge ! A pity but I must restrict myself geographically. many thanks.

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K. B. Woods is Kermit/K. He said so in the forum. Get it? Kermit Black Woods. Sounds like Kermit Blackwood to me. And he was adopted so it can be slightly way off. Those are

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are citing from WPA is possibly out of context and refers to varietal traits in captivity, but you seem to be taking these objections personally. What you have added to the

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is the chosen site for re-introducing and establishing the world's second completely separate population of the wild free ranging Asiatic Lions in the neighboring state of

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As you wrote, I should mix up subspecies, or there would be the wrong birds reintroduced in Malaysia, that hurts me hard. Where did you get informations for this from ?

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I'm not trying to criticize you, I'm trying to criticize Delacour's version of the taxonomy (calling Cambodian Annamese form a mere "individual variation"? Not true!).

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orders show really wide variations in plumage and colouration. They are often monogenic traits. Pheasant breeders like plant breeders (who use the word cultivar) use

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on to a wall and support the weight of even an additional 30kg load (a boy) leave alone Shivaji's men or an elephant as I found on website supporting this theory.

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The several comments on the forums were to Kermit Blackwood (the person who said that the Green Peafowl is really several species), how did you know about that?

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researchings in Museums, except those from Spicifer and Salween. I know Kermit for years, he is a good friend and we work together as good as possible.

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Hi Shyamal if you get time please request somebody knowledgable to clean the black line digitally in the following image of Asiatic Lions mating on the

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I strongly believe there are several distinct species of Green Peafowl, most having their own subspecies. Only the Malay and Kra forms should be called

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research is based on molecular phylogenetics, distributional and field studies. There are also numerous new ornithological works for the region such as

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Thanks Atul. The photograph of the monitor on the article is an individual that I know well and yes, I am aware of the habits of basking and that of

787:. The annamensis has a golden sheen, especially obvious in the females. The male has a bluer back and a bluer head. You also need to be aware that 281:

Yes of course. But I don't have so much time and I'm not proficient at this. I will do my best though.Bset wishes from Ireland Robert.(Notafly).

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There are many skeptics plaguing the scientific fields, their fast held "Mental Blocks" do more disservice to Mankind then their contributions.

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in its two variations viz. the Malaysian and the Javan verieties was considered genetically identical and was grouped under the scientific name

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web and that "K" (same guy) is writing a book on this subject. I think Kermit is the one quoted in the Red Data Book about theb 4th subspecies.

925: 918: 1289: 1207: 971: 573: 255: 1356: 1013: 589: 467: 427: 376: 1316: 1244: 1180: 1048: 498: 122: 1190:, neither of which are in contention. The use of monitor lizard for scaling walls is unverifiable and much closer to what is termed an 992: 1092: 1076: 372:, but it is a good example to explain that most species definitions are not merely based on just the existence of colour differences. 1435: 1339: 1420: 1334: 1379: 874: 825: 821: 725: 1389:

Yes. Lovely work.I was just about to write and thank you. Soon I must explore Photoshop. Seitz- Yes I see. Hope you saw the

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Tanaji using a Monitor to climb a vertical giant rock face on which the Sinhagad fort sits (I have trekked all around this

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Thanks, will try although my priority is for lesser known species. The amount of crank editing on popular species like

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etcetera based on actual field studies. Let us see what bird experts with access to references for the region like

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Very pleasant to me that you wrote this time with your email, so discussion will be possible. Thank you for that.

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The Story behind the Picture - "Monitor Lizards Combat" from the website of Jayanth Sharma's "WILDLIFE TIMES"

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I will tell you some more info. These are all distinct species, not subspecies of muticus. Kunming Imperator

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Thanks for the pointer. I found the image on the book scan on the Million Books project at www.archive.org !

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data later today.Now I'm going to put in two old pics showing the curious hind wing colour interference in

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walls and such. I have seen them run up old fort walls etc when disturbed, they also climb trees easily.

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So it does confirm that Mennig is friends with Kermit and the right birds were introduced into Malaysia.

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But let me calm down in that direction WPA and reintroduction. That case that seems to exite you most.

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is divided into 4, or if the one that lives in west China yunnanensis counts, 5 different subspecies.

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at the moment. We have a very large collection here (Ulster Museum, Belfast) -Many from India Bingham

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There is no evolutionary advantage for a species like that to be able to cling on to a wall ????

1348:. Please visit the talk page to vote for the barnstar since there are no votes for 2 months. 1127: 1104: 1303:

Two fighting Common Indian Monitor Lizard males make the cover of "Sanctuary Asia Magazine"

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Thanks, your info tallies with the results of my research, but I find it hard to convince

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is also found in Yunnan and that the Cambodian form might be a distinct species (

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Image of Asiatic Lions mating needs cleaning with the help of Photoshop software

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different. The person who translated this did not translate the part about the

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etc .Out of print and out of copyright.I can scan relevant plates if you wish.

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Me and Wolfgang Mennig were talking about it (latest to earliest messages):

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Here is a translation of Wolfgang Mennig (not by Google but a person).

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an evolutionary advantage to being able to climb trees and rocks, but

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In the long term I and sure you will be able to find credible sources

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even said in a German PDF that the Java and Malay were not identical.

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Very many thanks.Added him to my Irish entomologists.I am looking at

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Hi Ragib, I have just written on the talk page of Bengal monitor.

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Sent: Sunday, March 4, 2007 4:42:32 PM Subject: RE: Green Peafowl

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Let us not divert the topic to the person or what they said. The

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within the coastal range of Vietnam from north to south, and

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as monotypic with many variants in domestication, of which

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about the lack of veracity of the sources being mentioned.

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whenever you have some time, here are the links. For the

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Please help to improve it to match the quality of an

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From his works yes ! Note on your talk page as well.

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subspecies inside a subspecies. For the Javan it is

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Do you know of my grandfather Sidney Dillon Ripley?

1298:New External Links I added to Bengal Monitor Page: 967:Might be easier to get better photographs though ! 860:Many of those informations were based on my work. 735:I used a translator and got this from your paper: 109:1875 is definitely ok, since it is public domain. 1229:fort wall, the back of the fort facing away from 760:whose range is from central Thailand to Myanmar, 295:is correct according to Beolens and Watkins, and 926:Knowledge: WikiProject Protected areas of India 919:Knowledge: WikiProject Protected areas of India 749:You also mentioned this in your paper as well: 1431:Beautiful serpant, isnt it. Thankyou friend.-- 715:producer of many pretty hatchings until now. 618:, some of which are already extinct. Just the 1393:images.One is named for my wife Gillian.Also 894:forms which differ from the imperator form. 509:several distinct species of Green Peafowl". 173:Please help improve the articles related to 162:Please help improve the articles related to 1366:Hi there, I am a research student from the 924:Pls. join newly created the wikiproject on 1148:Here is great scientific explanation from 1161:Examples of temperature control include: 317:http://en.wikipedia.org/Robert_Templeton 1276:Imperial Gazetteer of India v. 18, p 12 14: 1250:Atul, please don't misquote me. There 1107:Lizard and its rock climbing abilities 880:Pavo (muticus) javanensis baluranensis 1058:Hi Shyamal, Would you please explain 1012:and this article is now the current 658: 594: 839:if some details would be cleared. 201:Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project 184:Asiatic Lion Reintroduction Project 23: 1014:Science Collaboration of the Month 993:Science Collaboration of the Month 24: 1446: 1346:Knowledge:WikiProject Environment 1263:to have happened (in other words 728:schrieb: Hello, Wolfgang Mennig, 1368:National University of Singapore 1340:WikiProject Environment barnstar 1088:Great. Thanks for your reply. -- 1000: 805:(Kra being further divided into 699:) to a straight upper headline ( 525:Pheasants, Partridges and Grouse 476:Indonesian Institute of Sciences 886:. There are also the different 1344:I have created a barnstar for 1176:Hope this helps, thanks again 850:And that should be negative ? 13: 1: 1357:20:12, 28 February 2007 (UTC) 1335:09:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC) 815:Regards, Frank Lin AKA Mario 330:I have here Seitz great work 1317:14:48, 9 February 2007 (UTC) 1290:06:55, 5 February 2007 (UTC) 1245:06:06, 5 February 2007 (UTC) 1208:16:37, 4 February 2007 (UTC) 1181:15:54, 4 February 2007 (UTC) 1172:sunning themselves on rocks. 1157:Types of temperature control 1143:15:40, 4 February 2007 (UTC) 1093:02:14, 4 February 2007 (UTC) 1077:02:08, 4 February 2007 (UTC) 1067:01:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC) 1062:revert please? Thank you. -- 1049:16:55, 1 February 2007 (UTC) 988:07:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC) 972:11:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC) 962:00:14, 28 January 2007 (UTC) 940:13:56, 22 January 2007 (UTC) 649:09:41, 24 January 2007 (UTC) 590:02:07, 17 January 2007 (UTC) 574:07:24, 16 January 2007 (UTC) 514:05:22, 16 January 2007 (UTC) 499:03:36, 16 January 2007 (UTC) 485:00:32, 16 January 2007 (UTC) 468:06:21, 15 January 2007 (UTC) 447:06:00, 15 January 2007 (UTC) 428:04:42, 15 January 2007 (UTC) 391:04:19, 15 January 2007 (UTC) 377:02:06, 15 January 2007 (UTC) 363:05:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC) 144:11:00, 30 January 2007 (UTC) 123:14:14, 3 February 2007 (UTC) 114:08:05, 22 January 2007 (UTC) 99:03:53, 22 January 2007 (UTC) 7: 401:wikipedia see for instance 306:20:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC) 256:02:13, 3 January 2007 (UTC) 238:09:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC) 10: 1451: 820:From: Wolfgang Mennig < 1436:07:23, 6 March 2007 (UTC) 1421:02:50, 6 March 2007 (UTC) 1385:Kaiser I Hind Many thanks 1380:13:34, 3 March 2007 (UTC) 912:23:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC) 1427:Melanophidium bilineatum 1218:I am sure there must be 867:Regards Wolfgang Mennig 781:P. imperator yunnanensis 315:Hello again Did you see 211:Gir Forest National Park 752:"The subspecies of the 191:Kuno Wildlife Sanctuary 179:Kuno Wildlife Sanctuary 166:when you have some time 87:Keep up the good work. 1322:Need of your help ! :) 1279: 884:P. m. muticus malacese 818:Original Message ---- 772:from Cambodia and the 758:Pavo muticus imperator 754:Pavo muticus imperator 608:Pavo muticus imperator 251:is a major deterrent. 1268: 1128:Common Indian Monitor 1105:Common Indian Monitor 612:Pavo muticus spicifer 90:regards Graeme Lyall 1399:Parnassius glacialis 1267:). For instance see 897:Mario (that was me) 680:Pavo muticus muticus 624:Pavo muticus muticus 620:Pavo muticus muticus 606:( Malaysia, Java ), 604:Pavo muticus muticus 277:Photos of Parnassius 231:Happy New Year 2007 226:in-situ conservation 1328:Talk:Robert Swinhoe 545:; possibly extinct 341:Grum-Grshmailo etc. 150:Lionel de Nicéville 1407:Troides magellanus 1373:research home page 955:Chandraandmoti.JPG 882:, for Malay it is 824:To: Frank Lin < 783:is different from 776:in central Laos." 523:Madge and McGowan, 326:Indian Lepidoptera 298:Bhutanitis ludlowi 1362:Survey Invitation 1330:. Best regards.-- 1152:page on Knowledge 1033: 1032: 1029: 1010:Natural selection 905: 904: 718:Regards Wolfgang 633: 632: 18:User talk:Shyamal 1442: 1354: 1353: 1277: 1041: 1019: 1004: 997: 996: 937: 932: 659: 595: 576: 569: 563: 386:fowl, not wild. 332:Macrolepidoptera 311:Robert Templeton 213:in the state of 1450: 1449: 1445: 1444: 1443: 1441: 1440: 1439: 1429: 1409:.Cheers Robert 1401:. I'll add the 1387: 1375:. Thank you. -- 1364: 1351: 1350: 1342: 1324: 1278: 1275: 1159: 1109: 1056: 1047: 1039: 995: 980: 947: 935: 930: 922: 807:P. m. malacense 567: 561: 558: 492:User:Frankyboy5 355: 343: 328: 313: 292:Alcippe ludlowi 287: 279: 264: 262:Charles Donovan 168: 152: 133: 81: 73: 29: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 1448: 1428: 1425: 1424: 1423: 1386: 1383: 1363: 1360: 1341: 1338: 1323: 1320: 1311: 1310: 1305: 1293: 1292: 1281: 1280: 1273: 1211: 1210: 1194:. Yes, it has 1174: 1173: 1158: 1155: 1108: 1102: 1100: 1098: 1097: 1096: 1095: 1082: 1080: 1079: 1055: 1052: 1043: 1031: 1030: 1018: 1008:You voted for 1005: 994: 991: 979: 976: 975: 974: 946: 943: 921: 915: 903: 902: 899: 873:Frank Lin < 870: 832:Hello Mario ! 831: 817: 785:P. yunnanensis 724:Frank Lin < 721: 678:Regarding the 665:Hello Frank ! 663: 656: 631: 630: 627: 599: 593: 592: 582: 581: 580: 579: 578: 577: 553:and the Javan 535:Indian Peafowl 502: 501: 471: 470: 431: 430: 380: 379: 354: 351: 342: 339: 327: 324: 312: 309: 286: 283: 278: 275: 263: 260: 259: 258: 229: 228: 223: 221:Reintroduction 218: 208: 203: 198: 195:Madhya Pradesh 167: 160: 151: 148: 147: 146: 132: 129: 128: 127: 126: 125: 104: 102: 101: 80: 77: 75: 72: 71: 66: 61: 56: 51: 46: 41: 36: 30: 28: 25: 15: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1447: 1438: 1437: 1434: 1422: 1419: 1415: 1414: 1413: 1412: 1408: 1404: 1400: 1396: 1392: 1382: 1381: 1378: 1374: 1369: 1359: 1358: 1355: 1347: 1337: 1336: 1333: 1329: 1319: 1318: 1315: 1309: 1306: 1304: 1301: 1300: 1299: 1297: 1296:Check it out! 1291: 1288: 1283: 1282: 1272: 1266: 1262: 1257: 1253: 1249: 1248: 1247: 1246: 1243: 1238: 1235: 1232: 1228: 1223: 1221: 1216: 1215: 1209: 1206: 1201: 1200:written about 1197: 1193: 1189: 1188:poikilothermy 1185: 1184: 1183: 1182: 1179: 1171: 1167: 1164: 1163: 1162: 1154: 1153: 1151: 1145: 1144: 1141: 1137: 1134: 1131: 1129: 1125: 1121: 1116: 1112: 1106: 1101: 1094: 1091: 1087: 1086: 1085: 1084: 1083: 1078: 1075: 1071: 1070: 1069: 1068: 1065: 1061: 1051: 1050: 1046: 1042: 1037: 1027: 1023: 1017: 1015: 1011: 1006: 1003: 999: 998: 990: 989: 986: 973: 970: 966: 965: 964: 963: 960: 956: 952: 942: 941: 938: 933: 927: 920: 914: 913: 910: 900: 898: 895: 893: 889: 885: 881: 875: 871: 868: 865: 861: 858: 854: 851: 848: 844: 840: 836: 833: 829: 826: 822: 816: 813: 810: 808: 804: 799: 796: 794: 793:P. bokorensis 790: 786: 782: 777: 775: 771: 767: 763: 759: 755: 750: 747: 743: 739: 736: 733: 729: 726: 722: 719: 716: 712: 709: 704: 702: 698: 694: 689: 683: 681: 676: 672: 669: 664: 661: 660: 657: 654: 651: 650: 647: 643: 639: 628: 625: 621: 617: 613: 609: 605: 600: 597: 596: 591: 588: 584: 583: 575: 572: 570: 564: 556: 552: 548: 544: 543:Green Peafowl 540: 536: 532: 531:0-7136-3966-0 529: 526: 522: 521: 520: 519: 518: 517: 516: 515: 512: 508: 500: 497: 493: 489: 488: 487: 486: 483: 477: 469: 466: 463:have to say. 462: 458: 455: 451: 450: 449: 448: 445: 439: 437: 436:Speckled Teal 429: 426: 421: 420:Green Peafowl 416: 412: 408: 404: 399: 395: 394: 393: 392: 389: 385: 378: 375: 371: 370:Gallus gallus 367: 366: 365: 364: 361: 350: 349: 338: 337: 333: 323: 322: 318: 308: 307: 304: 300: 299: 294: 293: 282: 274: 273: 269: 257: 254: 250: 246: 242: 241: 240: 239: 236: 232: 227: 224: 222: 219: 216: 212: 209: 207: 204: 202: 199: 196: 192: 189: 188: 187: 185: 180: 176: 175:Asiatic Lions 171: 165: 164:Asiatic Lions 159: 158: 145: 142: 138: 137: 136: 124: 121: 117: 116: 115: 112: 108: 107: 106: 100: 97: 93: 92: 91: 88: 85: 76: 70: 67: 65: 62: 60: 57: 55: 52: 50: 47: 45: 42: 40: 37: 35: 32: 31: 19: 1430: 1406: 1403:T.imperialis 1402: 1398: 1394: 1390: 1388: 1377:WikiInquirer 1365: 1343: 1325: 1314:Atulsnischal 1312: 1295: 1294: 1269: 1264: 1260: 1255: 1251: 1242:Atulsnischal 1239: 1236: 1224: 1219: 1217: 1213: 1212: 1199: 1195: 1192:urban legend 1178:Atulsnischal 1175: 1160: 1150:cold blooded 1147: 1146: 1140:Atulsnischal 1138: 1135: 1132: 1117: 1113: 1110: 1099: 1081: 1057: 1034: 1007: 981: 959:Atulsnischal 951:Asiatic lion 948: 923: 906: 896: 891: 887: 883: 879: 872: 869: 866: 862: 859: 855: 852: 849: 845: 841: 837: 834: 830: 819: 814: 811: 806: 802: 800: 797: 792: 788: 784: 780: 778: 773: 769: 766:vietnamensis 765: 761: 757: 753: 751: 748: 744: 740: 737: 734: 730: 723: 720: 717: 713: 707: 705: 700: 696: 692: 687: 684: 679: 677: 673: 670: 666: 655: 652: 641: 637: 634: 623: 619: 616:Pavo muticus 615: 611: 607: 603: 559: 554: 550: 546: 538: 524: 506: 503: 472: 461:User:Stavenn 440: 432: 414: 411:Anseriformes 383: 381: 369: 356: 344: 331: 329: 314: 296: 290: 288: 285:Frank Ludlow 280: 267: 265: 235:Atulsnischal 233: 230: 206:Asiatic Lion 174: 172: 169: 163: 153: 134: 103: 89: 86: 82: 79:Dear Shyamal 74: 1352:OhanaUnited 1111:Hi Shyamal 888:yunnanensis 770:angkorensis 708:yunnanensis 642:yunnanensis 539:nigripennis 407:Galliformes 403:Common Teal 1240:sincerely 1024:Knowledge 931:Amartyabag 909:Frankyboy5 892:annamensis 789:annamensis 762:annamensis 697:annamensis 693:annamensis 688:annamensis 646:Frankyboy5 638:annamensis 511:Frankyboy5 480:Regards -- 444:Frankyboy5 388:Frankyboy5 360:Frankyboy5 268:Parnassius 170:Hi Shymal 131:Hi Shyamal 1332:Valérie75 1196:been said 701:imperator 562:Jimfbleak 551:imperator 303:Smallweed 1227:Sinhagad 1124:Sinhagad 1028:article. 547:spicifer 384:domestic 249:Elephant 69:Archive8 64:Archive7 59:Archive6 54:Archive5 49:Archive4 44:Archive3 39:Archive2 34:Archive1 27:Archives 1433:Praveen 1418:Shyamal 1411:Notafly 1395:Troides 1287:Shyamal 1265:hearsay 1205:Shyamal 1170:lizards 1136:Thanks 1118:As for 1074:Shyamal 1054:Explain 1026:science 978:Tikader 969:Shyamal 957:Thanks 936:(Talk) 803:muticus 774:laotius 587:Shyamal 555:muticus 496:Shyamal 482:Stavenn 465:Shyamal 425:Shyamal 415:variety 398:species 374:Shyamal 353:Peafowl 348:Notafly 336:Notafly 321:Notafly 272:Notafly 253:Shyamal 217:, India 215:Gujarat 197:, India 186:there. 157:Notafly 141:Shyamal 120:Shyamal 111:Shyamal 96:Shyamal 1391:Agrias 1166:Snakes 1120:Tanaji 953:page. 533:lists 1326:Look 1090:Ragib 1064:Ragib 1036:NCurs 1022:ideal 917:Join 876:: --> 827:: --> 823:: --> 764:, or 727:: --> 507:isn't 289:Hi ! 245:Tiger 16:< 1261:said 1231:Pune 1220:MANY 1198:and 1168:and 1122:and 1060:this 1045:work 890:and 706:The 568:talk 528:ISBN 409:and 1256:not 985:ray 795:). 438:. 1274:— 1252:is 928:. 901:” 662:“ 644:. 640:, 629:” 598:“ 549:, 456:, 247:, 1040:e 1016:! 571:. 565:.

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