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seriously. The other thing on my plate: since we now know that certain publications are PD, there should be more of an effort to provide coverage of specific historical events, not just specific personalities. As for what I think you're getting at, project space exists to educate project members on what resources are available to them, so a mention should be made somewhere.
1484:
OR/unsourced problems. Another issue is that such content could be legit but they were added by IP-users or inexperienced users who forgot to add sources. And the scenario becomes worse when the missing sources are non-English. I will remove Jewish from Madusa article. Feel free to re-add them if you find a source. --
1200:, to the point where I would deem them "de facto" members. AEW has not "officially" placed them in the stable, but for plot purposes, they're quite clearly in at this point. I don't think it's "wrong" of users to highlight that these people are associated with the faction and are interwoven into the plot.
1254:
I didn't know about the music argument. Good call. The main issue are IPs and good faith editors who include every wrestler who, at some point, has some connection, storyline or match with the stable. Associates, Honorary, part time, unoficial... BTW, I don't understand the "honorary Uso" thing. For
1203:
I think to say sourcing is "impossible" is probably overstating it. While wrestling sources are unlikely to use the exact term "associate", I'm sure there are sources who use language indicating that a wrestler is attached to a faction without being declared a member. To use a historic example; I'm
1483:
There are two issues: Many wrestlers or wrestling personalities do not correct/confirm such info about their identity and real life stuff, and it is not limited to their ethnicity or religion. Age (exact birth date) and legal/real name (especially for married women) could suffer from the very same
1107:
Agree with Czello. The associates section it's hard to source and I don't see any kind of enciclopedic value. That's how pro wrestling works, wrestlers work with wrestlers. Also, most Ips include every wrestler who, at some point, appears with the stable. (do you remember Drew McIntyre as
Judgment
1372:
I think the term "notable" was probably introduced to the format of these pages so that for more recent pages, random IP editors would be discouraged from adding every single event of the year to the article. I'm sure in the case of much older articles, the term "notable" is not there to gatekeep
1343:
On May 21, 1952 Baron
Michele Leone made wrestling history, when he lost the Olympic version of the world title to Lou Thesz at Gilmore Field in Los Angeles, unifying it with the NWA world title. The event drew 25,256 fans, which is still to this date the second largest crowd to watch a wrestling
1003:
has been nominated for deletion, I feel this is a strange one as he's clearly notable on the
Independent scene, having televised matches on All Elite Wrestling a few times, and even having an annual GCW PPV event named after him, can anyone help join the discussion and give some input/assistance.
898:
with photos of Beyer as the
Destroyer. The existing copyright renewal databases are oriented towards books, so determining the copyright status of periodicals could be tricky. Offhand, it appears the copyright wasn't renewed, but you shouldn't go by guesswork if we're supposed to take copyright
1420:
I dislike greatly on any BLP page when someone is categorised into an ethnicity/nationality, but there's no mention of their membership in that ethnicity/nationality in the article. American BLP pages are rife with claims of being "Irish-American" or various other
European descendent without any
831:
is largely in the public domain (I don't know when they discontinued that mag, but there's the Berne
Convention cut-off date of March 1, 1989 to take into consideration). Is this resource something we want to publicize as a project? It seems those who have uploaded photos have done so for very
677:
I have been thinking the same long time ago. I have no problem with regular commentators, like Ross Lawler, Tazz Styles or Tenay West. But its fancruft to include every single combination of the commentators, many of them being a one time deal. Dynamite is just 5 years old but has 22
655:. Do Knowledge readers really need to know that Chris Jericho once commentated alongside Jim Ross and Excalibur on the second hour of the July 15, 2020 edition of Dynamite? Or that out of 100s and 100s of episodes of WWE RAW it was twice announced by Jim Ross and Todd Grisham?
827:...as I'm sure you've noticed from the Commons Delinker edits in your watchlist. What was learned? For one, the Apter mags with cover dates ranging from August 1973 to October 1987 are all in the public domain. From the previous smaller DR of last year, we learned that
1240:
argument, however, as users are going to need to make interpretations of what language actually means what we call an 'associate'. I think if they're in this grey area then they're not ultimately not a member, but would still get mentioned in the article body. —
1078:. Either they are a member or they are not. If they are not, why are we including them? Any storyline 'association' can be mentioned in the article body. Friends of friends shouldn't be listed under 'members', because they ultimately are not. It's
633:
1070:
because "associate" appears to be a term that only really exists on
Knowledge. The vast majority of sources don't describe allies of a faction as "associates", but might use some other vague descriptor, which is what leads to the OR mentioned
1165:). These "associate" listings are simply not worth the trouble they cause, nor do they add much to begin with. If an association is truly notable, then it will more appropriately be contextualized in the body of the article.
1089:. The endless arguments about who is or isn't an associate of a faction, which seems to be getting worse as the wrestling industry is more faction heavy than it's perhaps ever been, is ultimately disruptive to the project.
650:
are ridiculous. First and foremost, they're almost entirely uncited. Secondly, they unwieldy monsters that add massively to the length of the article without adding useful information. Thirdly, they're pretty much just
1050:
I'd like to propose that we do away with "associate" fields in stable and faction articles. This would include tables under members, fields in timelines, or describing people as associates. Here is my reasoning:
1187:
makes good points, however, to play Devil's advocate, sometimes there very clearly is some kind of "Second tier" level of membership in a wrestling faction. To pick a current example, I would in fact say that
1062:
and is rarely adequately sourced. Most of the time it depends on personal opinion or interpretation. If one person is seen hanging around with another faction more than once then people try to add them as an
1229:
I think there will always be special cases where someone deserves a mention (perhaps like Sami in the
Bloodline), but I think there would have to be good justification for inclusion rather than it being the
1028:
730:
I have long agreed with this and culled pointless one-offs many times. It's mostly one editor that keeps adding these. Listing the regular announce teams is one thing. Week-by-week breakdowns is stupid.
1266:. The Sky Pirates was used in NXT. Sane and Shirai (Sky) used that name until 2019. And they became Sky Pirates again just because they are in a same stable/group?! It is just WP:OR/SYNTH material. --
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Day's associate or Nikki Cross as DMG Control's associate? I remember back in my day, Great Khali and
Boogeyman were DX's associates because they did the Suck it gesture.) --
1093:
For these reasons I think we should prohibit this being a standard part of stable articles. If agreed, I'm happy to do the legwork myself in cleaning up existing articles. —
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has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the
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Jew? I don't see anything about that claim on their articles, but Jeiwsh-related categories are linked. We better review and verify
935:. Since that's more timely and of perhaps greater importance to the project overall, I thought I would leave notice here. See
1234:
I'm sure there are sources who use language indicating that a wrestler is attached to a faction without being declared a member
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events like the LA one you referenced. I'm sure no one would object to the inclusion of the LA show as a notable 1952 event.
822:
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me, Zayn it's clearly a member of the
Bloodline, the honorary title it's kayfabe since he isn't part of the Anoa'i family.
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event in Southern California history, and took $ 103,277.75 at the gate, pro-wrestling’s first gate of over $ 100,000.00.
995:
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698:. Random and non-notable stables/tag teams should be redirected too. While such contributions could be considered as
1162:
977:. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article.
702:, but they are actually bloat and fancruft material (harming the quality and encyclopediac tone of our project). --
1215:
I know making these points makes coming to a consensus more difficult, but I feel they do have to be pointed out.
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So tell me, how are we defining "notable", and how is doing so helping with readers' understanding of the topic?
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specific reasons, and yet still there's lots of fertile ground to till, given the known extent of what's PD.
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For weekly wrestling shows, subsections listing every single combination of announce team need to be deleted
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I haven't had time to research which articles need to be re-illustrated as a result. I just sent the
927:
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Knowledge:Files for discussion/2024 September 8#File:Pro Wrestling Illustrated March 2014 cover.gif
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Yes, remove them. While it's not a 1:1 situation, an "associated acts" parameter was removed from
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As far as I go, I've been thinking that it might be worth requesting a custom upload template for
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related articles, project guidelines, ideas, suggestions and questions. Thank you for visiting!
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Same as Prefall. I add this: Sub-groups need similar concerns. For example, take a look at
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evidence. For example I just recently had to reduce 8 claimed ethnicities for
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Input from experienced project members would be welcome in the discussion at
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Well, I've now put all three of these WWE lists up for deletion over at
608:
1435:, a quick google search for Lisa Marie Varon shows that she is Jewish:
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I need this things need to be completely culled and articles such as
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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of WWE NXT on-air personalities
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discussion page. Please use this page to discuss issues regarding
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Since no-one objects, I go ahead now and begin removing these.
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Is this resource something we want to publicize as a project?
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a couple years ago for similar reasons (see that discussion
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is now unillustrated. Internet Archive has a 1963 issue of
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In the time since I first posted, I've been poking around.
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Found in the very first hit of a perfunctory Google search:
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and other Japanese factions are a field for WP:FANCRUFT. --
1299:
Our continued detachment from reality in by-year articles
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was created to include the exact same trivial fancruft.
1405:. There could be BLP violation and unsourced claims. --
1465:
I'm having a harder time sourcing anything for Madusa
1280:.We can start another discussion. I think things like
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Talk:Liv Morgan#Was she born in Paramus or Morristown?
789:
Talk:Liv Morgan#Was she born in Paramus or Morristown?
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Category:Professional wrestlers who competed in MMA
694:I agree. There are also pointless articles like
1312:Only one promotion held notable shows in 1952.
1429:upon actually looking up the evidence/sources.
696:Secondary championships in All Elite Wrestling
77:
617:This page has archives. Sections older than
15:
1459:Huff Po UK source (although it's a bit iffy)
86:Professional wrestling as a whole is under
1019:Professional wrestlers who competed in MMA
1389:Jewish background of Madusa and Victoria
25:
1204:sure we can get sources discussing how
1046:"Associates" in stable/faction articles
1403:List of Jewish professional wrestlers
1029:MMA records of professional wrestlers
747:List of WWE NXT on-air personalities
660:List of WWE Raw on-air personalities
648:List of WWE Raw on-air personalities
627:when more than 1 section is present.
1027:to the wrestlers from this article
81:WikiProject Professional Wrestling
13:
823:Commons mass DR has been closed...
745:PS, circumventing this consensus,
646:or indeed entire articles such as
115:WikiProject Professional wrestling
14:
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621:may be automatically archived by
1122:Looking to get more input here,
996:Proposed Deletion of Gringo Loco
134:
1328:Empresa Mexicana de Lucha Libre
1159:Template:Infobox musical artist
861:Did you have something in mind?
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1310:==List of notable promotions==
1305:1952 in professional wrestling
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1236:This is where we get into the
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963:Good article reassessment for
874:Commons:Village pump/Copyright
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1446:(Just about fine because of
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1023:Can anyone please add
829:Wrestling's Main Event
624:Lowercase sigmabot III
119:professional wrestling
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1198:Blackpool Combat Club
1076:it isn't encyclopedic
662:put up for deletion.
71:Top priority articles
644:WWE NXT#Commentators
638:Subsections such as
1357:Talk to me, Billy
1087:leads to edit wars
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39:Members list
26:
1210:nWo Wolfpac
1080:WP:FANCRUFT
1001:Gringo Loco
986:(trout me!)
63:Style guide
1467:CeltBrowne
1375:CeltBrowne
1351:RadioKAOS
1217:CeltBrowne
1140:CeltBrowne
980:Spinixster
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892:Dick Beyer
878:CeltBrowne
870:Main Event
835:RadioKAOS
768:CeltBrowne
718:CeltBrowne
664:CeltBrowne
47:Notability
35:Assessment
1486:Mann Mann
1433:That said
1427:this edit
1407:Mann Mann
1303:Found in
1268:Mann Mann
1133:RadioKAOS
1126:Mann Mann
810:AmritR012
798:. The IP
751:oknazevad
733:oknazevad
704:Mann Mann
67:Templates
55:Sanctions
1399:Victoria
1230:default.
1183:I think
653:Fancruft
141:Archives
97:Shortcut
619:30 days
59:Sources
1395:Madusa
1245:Czello
1185:Czello
1148:Czello
1097:Czello
1074:Next,
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933:WP:FFD
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