847:) are not meant to automatically protect (or unprotect) pages if an admin clicks them; they are supposed to only add the tag. I agree that there could be problems if the links could cause admins to accidentally (un)protect pages, but as it stands the most a malicious user could do is cause an admin to add a small lock icon to a page (the script prompts admins before it adds a regular tag). In fact, I mentioned on my talk page earlier that there are a few improvments I'd like to make to the script should it be added to Gadgets and one of them is related to this. On a side note, objections to my protection script should perhaps be kept separate to discussion of admin gadgets in general. –
1891:, complete with code example and explanation. But I didn't get a single reaction for some days. So in the end I added a smaller simpler gadget to see how it worked. (A simple gadget that works in all browsers and all skins I have tested it in.) And then I did get one response from one single user, that is Cacycle came along and removed my gadget and the "addsection-plus" gadget that was not added by me. By the way, the "addsection-plus" gadget was discussed and approved at the village pump. And then Cacycle promptly wrote up that rule number 8 above,
31:
2289:
typical gadget author or a
Village pump visitor can foresee. Review takes time and can be very labor intensive, especially if people actually look at and review the code like Alex does (hats off!). No single gadget has ever been so important that it could not wait one or two weeks for a response before being added. If you do not get a response it could also mean that there is no great interest in it (and then it should not become a gadget).
1825:). The only reason is that the gadgets had been added without adequate discussion and review. Please also note that there is a fundamental difference between changing the wiki system through the addition of gadgets on the one hand (special precautions and regulations needed here) and article pages discussing this process on the other hand (normal Knowledge conventions apply here). See also my longer comment below.
2311:. The current discussion clearly shows that we do not need less, but more detailed and explicit rules and consent about what should become a gadget and what not. I wholeheartedly agree that these pages and the current process are in need of more experts, but the only valid way for that is to attract them here and to ask them to bookmark this page (e.g. at the Village pump or the Community portal).
747:
easily turned off, and always fiddling with monobook increasing the number of edits is a chore that this extension seems designed to circumvent. FYI, Duesentreib is (probably) going to add a feature so admin (etc) tools are only shown to those who are allowed to use them. Currently, the description just says "If you're not an admin, this will not work for you so don't bother."
586:. It hasn't been thoroughly tested enough to add to Gadgets just yet I think, but I thought it might be useful if people reading this page knew about it. If people are interested in testing, I can still use some feedback when it comes to compatibility with versions of IE, and earlier versions of Opera and Firefox. If anyone cares to help, just drop me a line on my talkpage. --
2199:
gadget additions must be discussed. Please note (again) that there is a fundamental difference between changing the wiki system through the addition of gadgets on the one hand (special precautions and regulations needed here) and article pages discussing this process on the other hand (normal
Knowledge conventions apply here). Please see also my longer comment below.
1428:, it appears as unassessed. Unassessed articles in the main space appear with black font. So, there are two bugs so far: the script should consider the color of different skins (black is the default in the classical, but white in the modern), and we should check why the Halo 2 article appears as unassessed. Thanks for reporting this. --
2229:. And I say that you have to respect any consensus reached on the village pump, since that overrules any local "consensus" (usually including only you and AlexSm) in less visited pages such as these. So I don't really know why I am discussing with you here. This discussion probably should be moved to the village pump.
2619:, you better calm down and stop whining that you could not sneak in your trivial or redundant gadgets without any (real) discussion or notice and start working constructively towards a compromise or consensus to improve the process. I especially urge both of you to stop your personal attacks (like above
2785:
My impression is that gadgets are not particularly important or special in any way that would justify building a special process just to approve them. Looking at the recentchanges for the MediaWiki namespace shows that most of the discussion links are to VPT, which is why I suggested that, but VPR is
2715:
Discussion needs to be on a separate page so that people who are somehow 'experts' on gadgets (I assume, you and AlexSm) can monitor it, rather than allowing the discussions to take place at the village pump, where a general audience - including numerous people already knowledgeable about javascript,
2336:
I don't see why it's desirable to limit the number of gadgets somehow - like someone said above, if the list gets too long it can always be rearranged. If there are 50 or 75 gadgets, it's not a big deal. Provided that a script is sufficiently stable and functional, there's no technical reason not to
2172:
Regarding
Cacycles comment "premature change" and "concensus" comment above. Cacycle: You go around these pages adding rules and editing as you like. But as soon as anyone else does anything you revert it and say "discuss first", "find consensus first", "premature change" and so on. I think this is a
2131:
Sure, point them to me, no problem. The main reason for VPT is that people there tend to be more familiar with the technical issues that the gadgets could run into. I think userscripts are also quite frequently discussed on VPT. The "discussion" about bots is somewhat odd, but to save space I'll just
1391:
Whenever I view the main page, the words "Main Page" appear, which is a problem of itself, but they appear in black, as opposed to the normal white that modern-skinned pages usualy do. When I purge the server cache, the problem goes away, but if I go to another page and back it changes back to black.
2342:
But more importantly, I disagree that gadgets are particularly important or dangerous compared to other
Mediawiki pages. For example, if I want to change Common.js or Common.css, I can do that without any discussion or code review, and it will affect lots of people when they refresh their cache. On
2097:
Okay, I guess when someone suggests a gadget that's been discussed before, I'll just say "been proposed already, ask CBM for a link to the old discussion" :) Also, I keep wondering why bots and userscripts have their own discussion places. And another point: gadgets are supposed to be user-friendly,
1751:
I felt that this was merely codifying the current practice which was more or less consensus on these pages. It actually makes much sense in terms of transparency and getting a second opinion from users experienced with userscripts. It is very obvious from the recent controversial additions that such
1491:
No matter whether I use as gadget or script, it says it is unassessed for me. Right now the script does not display page title (guess you are working with a white font for the page title). Wish others could try the diff to see if it is happening for others. And just leave a message here once you are
1311:
Is there a preferred method for using scripts that are available as gadgets? For example, I've been using "popups" for quite some time through my monobook.js file. It works well, no complaints, etc. However, I'm just curious if there is any advantage in terms of script performance, server load, etc.
1153:
It is meant to prevent messed up pages and irregular behavior (and the user irritation and service requests) caused by scripts crashed in the middle of their job. If it is too difficult to make a script fully cross-browser compatible it would simply require a browser check at the start or a test for
967:
Who was confused? By what were they confused? Is this on-wiki anywhere? Can we not be so vague? And yes, there are gains; two of them are listed at the top of this section. More could be added (all the benefits of having gadgets in general also apply to admin-only gadgets). Of course, this is a moot
802:
in turn. "Most users will have no use for them nor will they know what they are" would only be a reason to disallow admin-only gadgets if all users were being forced to use all gadgets. Unsurprisingly that's not the case. Admin-only scripts are clearly marked as such and if a user has no use for one
2645:
You are the only one here who thinks there is anything disruptive about this, that there's anything controversial about it, or that discussion must take place HERE and no place else (the one for the add section tab was placed there following a discussion on the village pump which also resulted in a
2259:
Gadgets are not comparable to any normal
Knowledge page, they are an extended part of the Knowledge system itself and their malfunction can directly affect the usability of the site. The gadget feature has been added mainly for tools targeted at a wide normal-user audience. It was never intended to
997:
You can apply it to the titles and the description, but not the section or the button. As for as the pros: we already have stable versions of scripts, which are loaded by each users monobook. (see how popups work) And any admin who doesn't know how to use their monobook, and about what scripts are,
809:
Whether admins are competent enough to edit their monobooks is just irrelevant; "sysop" is not a position acquired on the basis of technical ability and does not grant nor require any competence with javascript. Disallowing admin gadgets on the gounds that they should be able to manage without them
746:
It's not a matter of "can admins edit their own js" (probably yes, though I'm not sure we can assume that) but rather the fact that this allows enable/disable instead of always-on (unless you rack up tons of edits enabling and disabling stuff in your monobook. There are several tools that should be
2346:
Finally, I don't think that there are a large number of people who are interested in gadgets but not in any other technical aspects of the site. Presumably the people who write the gadgets mostly follow VPT anyway, because that's a common place for technical problems to be reported. If there are a
2216:
Cacycle: Regarding your comment further above (that was out of time order making discussion here hard to follow) and where you claim you actually support one of the new gadgets: Well, that's a very strange way of supporting a gadget, by removing all three and then not point out which one you would
1797:
And the only controversy surrounding those new gadgets so far was from one person, you. You didn't like that they "clogged up the preferences" and you removed them. I don't know what why you feel they "clogged up the preferences" since that can be interpreted in at least two ways. I have written a
1765:
Most of the time there is very little discussion when system messages (i.e. Mediawiki pages) are edited. Someone makes an editprotected request, and if it seems reasonable it's just done. Or an admin notices a problem and fixes it. Only if there is actually a concern is discussion necessary. Also,
1409:
Ugh, the modern skin is awful when you are used to the other. I am lost :-D I had to clear my cache several times in several pages until it got working (but I guessed it was because I had a link to the script in my monobook before). When I go to the Main Page, it indeed appears white for a second,
1163:
Wouldn't it be simpler to say that the script should be JavaScript 1.6 compliant, unless noted. Personally I don't think there should be checks for like "document.all", as it's pretty ambigious, and non-standard. Personally I dislike to polute scripts with custom browser detection scripts, just to
2739:
While I can't answer #3 for
Cacycle, I have something to say on #1 &2. First, gadgets are not more important than Common.js, but I think the problem is that you don't consider Common.js serious at all. You seem to share CBM's opinion that "if I want to change Common.js or Common.css, I can do
2523:
Because if you've got something to say to me, say it. You don't know what you're talking about - there's NOT a bug in the "modern" skin, it just doesn't hold to an assumption that script authors make - and this isn't one script that's affected by it, it's _hundreds_, including scripts that aren't
2288:
It is quite understandable that proud user script or style authors want to see their creation becoming a gadget as soon as possible. But even the most simple gadget can have implications (in terms of compatibility with different browsers, skins, userscripts, and other gadgets) far beyond what the
2063:
That's true; I don't see why gadgets (just one of many technical things that can be put in the mediawiki namespace) need to have their own page for discussion, unless there are really lots of them. The editors who are likely to be interested in gadgets are likely to also follow VPT; I don't think
1716:
I removed that clause. There are a lot of
Mediawiki pages that are much more visible than the gadgets list, but no rule that changes to them have to be discussed. It's just bureaucracy to require that, regardless of obvious merit or lack of controversy, any change has to be discussed first. If an
856:
It is a great script and I'm sorry about the mistake with the actual protection of pages; I probably should have looked closer. Regarding my other comments, whilst I did apply them to your script, I would also mean them in a more general sense, since any script would need to fail gracefully if it
2385:
Controversial changes are bad, but there isn't any requirement for discussion first for noncontroversial changes. People who don't see the difference are discouraged from editing the page at all, but we don't stand in the way of people who are doing useful work. And lack of discussion on its own
2408:
Possibly either some coding or at least organization could solve things rather neatly. People who use a gadget could simply rate its compatibility and functionality under diverse browsers and user environments (a compatibility matrix of sorts). Knowledge table format already allows sorting, so
2198:
Feel free to check the page histories to see that I created these pages from pre-existing but scattered content. This includes the rules which have since then be edited by quite a few users. I do not think that I was a major contributor to them beside the last (and quite obvious to me) one that
546:
which shows the extra controls on cats that it provides as well as an example of adding a new cat, with autocomplete on category names. I'm not at all sure how exactly this page is supposed to work to make new suggestions. I just know that I use HotCat all the time, and it is very powerful. One
1464:
I'm going to try and fix the bug now. ReyBrujo, I followed the link you provided and it worked in both the Modern and
Monobook skins; Halo 2 is appearing featured as it should for me. Firefoxman, I'm using the same browser as you, and I'm not seeing the words "Main Page" appear in monobook. In
2432:
and many more to be written. While it would be technically possible to add them all as gadgets, we must keep the user preferences interface manageable for normal users. This implies that we have to find criteria for inclusion not only based on functionality and compatibility, but also on user
732:
I totally agree with AmiDaniel: "Admins should hopefully be competent enough to edit their own monobooks". Also, you cat't compare en.wp and
Commons, since the proportion of administrative work on Commons is much higher. P.S. Please note that another related discussion is taking place at
768:
Can you please point out which tools need to be turned off and on on a regular basis? Nonetheless, there is another solution: make Myskin look like
Monobook, put the scripts into your myskin.js, switch skins when necessary. This approach might be even more convenient, since you can have
612:
There are several views above and elsewhere on how to deal with disruptive editors using Gadgets, or other scripts, and what technical controls are required to remove these from someone. IMHO, figuring that out is not the best use of our time, as we already have a solution, blocking. —
139:
Gadgets must not be so powerful that new users using them would be likely to cause disruption by mistake. - and several more things that exclude useful stuff (not allowing sysop scripts, etc). Is there any chance at having a "power user" interface that lets you use any page as a gadget?
2024:
I don't follow; the village pump is archived, so records aren't lost. I don't see how too much traffic there is a bad thing; you can always ignore other sections, and other people can ignore the gadgets section, but by having it on one page it's easy to see what's going on. — Carl
2217:
like to keep. Had you left one or two of them then you might have been speaking the truth, but you aren't. It is very clear to me what you and AlexSm are doing here after seeing how you behave: You two try to enforce that all gadgets should first be suggested and "discussed" at
2292:
Please note that it is not a major problem if a tool does not become a gadget (and it should definitely not create personal drama and overreactions) - please remember that we still have the standard ways to use an extension (monobook.js, monobook.cs, and local user scripts).
1626:
Wow, I was just raving about how great that the WikEd Gadget is, and then noticed that it was gone, heh. Regardless of whether or not it's put back, perhaps it might be wise to link the Gadgets page to here, or at least mention the WikEd removal, to avoid confusion?
2751:
As for discussion place, I still think that a separate page would be a best choice, and nobody could raise any objections to my idea that Village Pump could be used for announcements. Still, if you move discussions to Village Pump, it's definitely should be
468:
Warn/block is a perfectly good way of dealing with misuse; after all, some people misuse 'edit this page' rather than a script. It would be nice to have technical protections too, though, such as a 'kill switch' that could be added to someone's monobook.js.
143:
Another problem is that popups (currently the only one), twinkle, etc, have been taken away from people for disruption. This would mean they logically cannot be gadgets, unless there is a way for an admin to disable a user from using a particular gadget.
405:
One way to disable the scripts selectively for users would be to put in a line of code into the script that checks wgUserName against a blacklist of users that can't use that particular script, and make the script refuse to function if the name matches.
1335:
I don't know about performance, but what I do know is that if you use gadgets, you get what the script provides: there's no way (AFAIK) to customize the script. With monobook.js (and other skins) you can customise the script to your heart's content.
857:
doesn't have the right permissions/browser/settings enabled etc. I'd say this is more important for scripts in the preferences since people are less likely to know exactly what they are enabling than when they add javascript code to their monobooks.
1060:
which are compatible with, but not yet fully functional under MS-IE. As long as a tool is suited as a gadget and is functional in a major browser I do not see problems - as long as the browser requirement is clearly marked. This interpretation of
2475:
That's what I'm thinking too. It's the open content and open source tradition to provide a lot of choice. It's probably a better idea to make that tradition palatable by making the choice manageable, rather than to abandon the tradition. :-)
2684:
You may want to move that discussion to a user talk page; I don't think it will help move conversation here forward. I think we will be able to work towards agreement better if we keep focused on gadgets rather than personalities. — Carl
2811:
I don't really see that we need to pick one or the other - It's a bit bureaucratic to say that a discussion isn't valid because it's not filed in the proper location - as long as it's a reasonably visible area, and both VPT/VPR qualify.
1465:
modern, I'm getting the same issue with black color, which I'm just about to fix. Rey, could you make the change to the gadget once I change my userspace version? I can't edit the gadget version since it's in the MediaWiki namespace.
244:
That is true, this would make it impossible to stop people abusing scripts. Also: popups has several configuration options. What to you propose doing about that? There is also a small bug, which I've asked AmiDaniel to look into.
2221:
precisely since that page doesn't get many visitors, since then you two can control this area and prevent any new gadgets from being added. It seems you two don't like anything that makes your own gadgets become less prominently
437:
To avoid putting the blacklist in one central location with an associated bureaucracy, another option would be to let the script support setting a variable in the user's monobook.js that triggers the script to not function.
160:
The "source code" rule was confusing to me as well. And popups indeed seem to be a powerful tool that's already included. As for "major browsers", that probably means IE6/7, Firefox 15/2, Opera 9 and Safari 3 for Windows? ∴
2719:
There was/is something actually wrong with the recent additions that you reverted, and/or with other gadgets currently in use, and therefore their inclusion should have been prevented by having them go through an approval
2412:
That's just an initial impression because someone dragged me here, and I want to leave a reminder to myself. So don't worry if that's not entirely accurate yet. I'll totally come back and study gadgets more thoroughly.
547:
caveat is that it may be too powerful for newbies, you can add a lot of categories pretty easily (but you can the old way too if you know what they are). HotCat is by Magnus Manske, a very prolific tool developer. ++
335:. One more problem - Navigation popups (and nearly every other script) require the use of the monobook skin. We should be able to only show scripts on the gadgets list if users have certain rights or a certain skin.
369:
As far as I remember, there are 4 monobook-like skins: monobook, myskin, simple, chick, and 3 older skins standard, cologneblue and nostalgia that are "not compatible": they have different blocks, classes and ids ∴
2756:
because this is where non-trivial changes to system messages are discussed. There nothing "technical" in the decision whether to make some working code a gadget, and if you can't explain the gadget to an average
1077:). It would also be in line with the other language Wikipedias and Wiktionaries which have already made browser-specific tools like wikEd into gadgets. Therefore, I have clarified the guideline accordingly.
823:
the script and when it is used on a non-admin account, it adds the tag without actually protecting the page, which isn't really acceptable so the script would need to fail gracefully if used by a non-admin.
266:. Gadgets can still be configured via the user's monobook.js page. Also, rule 1 only applies to gadgets that REQUIRE configuration to function. If a gadget's configuration is OPTIONAL then it is just fine.
1351:
In general, it should be possible to customize gadget scripts on your monobook.js page. There is also no difference in server load etc., it is simply an easier way to install and uninstall these scripts.
2724:
Have I mischaracterized any part of your argument, or is there anything I'm missing? I'd like you see you back up these claims rather than stating them as though they are already accepted to be fact. --
170:
I don't see why this (must work in all browsers) is needed. TW should be an option (!) - just make note that it's not for IE users. If they select it and their computer explodes, that's their own fault
173:
Also, admin scripts (etc) should be allowed too. If users try installing them, and get errors at every turn, that's their own fault. Just make note that it's an admin-only script in the description.
97:
so as to list all existing scripts; the idea was to comment on each script to decide whether it should be included or not. That may turn out to be unworkable, though, and your idea may be better. --
1687:. It provides DHTML popups with the largish picture, licensing information, and it integrates very naturally into the monobook interface and style. What needs be done to get this as a gadget? —
2003:
I think a separate "proposals" page was a better idea. There is just too much traffic on VPT, and we'd also loose the archives of old proposals. Maybe we can we reach a compromise at "announce at
830:
which would cause the admin to semi-protect the page unintentionally (or fully protect or unprotect it, depending on the link), which could cause problems especially if the script was widely used.
147:
Something else that would be nice would be a way to load a framework (e.g. Prototype) that scripts can then use - either for my own userscript, or for a gadget using a kind of dependency system.
136:
this is confusing. OF COURSE you need to edit the code to add features, bugfixes, etc. Is this trying to say it has to be configurable? What needs to be configurable, exactly, in that case?
224:
For stuff like popups and Twinkle, perhaps it would be possible to add a new special page only accessible by administrators that allows disabling of gadgets that users are using abusively.
2303:
did simply not work. Some reasons have been discussed above, another one is that you cannot expect people who are specifically interested in gadgets to wade through the massive traffic at
2740:
that without any discussion or code review". This is just wrong. It's not normal to make so many unexpected additions to system files (a lot of which are later reverted) like you do. —
1906:. Those village pumps were the places were the need for these gadgets became apparent. But I am still not getting any discussion. So who or what exactly am I supposed to discuss with?
1717:
admin messes around and breaks things, I expect they will be advised in strong terms to stop doing so. But admins who don't mess up should be free to go about their business. — Carl
114:
Umm... I prefer you to do it, otherwise I would have to "sign for you" in a lot of places :) But if you feel like the existing structure is fine, we could try to continue using it ∴
2712:
Gadgets are somehow more dangerous / more important / etc than other things such as common.js, and therefore need a more stringent approval process than edits in those other areas.
1794:
Cacycle: Well, before you add a rule that you call a "guideline" you perhaps should first discuss it on its talkpage, especially if the rule itself says "first discuss, then add".
2669:
And where the hell do you get off calling other people's gadgets "trivial", "redundant", "disruptive", "controversial" - and then accusing others of making personal attacks? --
1752:
a peer review process is dearly required. This is very similar to editing the Main page or system messages which must/should be discussed before actually applying the changes.
2538:
1766:
unlike many system messages, the gadgets list isn't going to be cached by google or seen by IP users - there is very little risk from an edit to the gadgets page. — Carl
459:
I agree with that (but, then, my understanding is my position, being that users, rather than tools, should be held responsible for their own actions, is a bit extreme) —
2498:
Keep the user preferences interface manageable for normal users, per Сасусlе. But, as there so many useful user scripts, how about an extended gadgets page of its own?
2042:"Records" aren't lost either way: after all, we always have page history. But finding stuff related to gadgets among hundreds other sections would be a bit difficult. —
782:
Until devs implement "hide admins gadgets" in MediaWiki (I saw "remind me in 2 months" comment on IRC), maybe we can hide that section with CSS and then display it via
2573:- there could be interest in a given idea for a feature (and therefore it should become a gadget) without people knowing it would/could be implemented as a gadget. --
1366:
Differences for users: 1) gadgets are easier to install, 2) gadgets are executed in all skins. For scripts developers: gadgets are called before site JS/CSS files. —
2368:
Yeah sure... Try to sneak in some controversial changes into common.js (as people did recently with gadgets) and I will guarantee you that you will get grilled ;-)
819:
I've had a look and 70% of admins have a monobook.js so most do know about userscripts but there is a sizable minority that have not used a monobook.js. Also, I've
998:
should question whether they actually know what they are doing, since these pages are very very commonly known, perhaps on the level of knowledge of policy pages.
286:
I'm not talking about rule 1, I am the one who enabled popups! I wanted to know if anyone had any ideas on how to make people aware of the configuration options.
1563:
I signed in today and noticed that the wikEd edit box was no longer working and wikEd doesn't show up in the Gadgets list anymore. Anyone know what happened? -
2635:
and be assured that nobody is interested in useless bureaucracy, the main point is about transparency and the prevention of (potentially) disruptive changes.
2450:
Manageability can be achieved through sorting and the use of section headers. The list of user scripts, for example, is navigable despite its length. — Carl
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Even if monobook.js was protected, they could still refuse to press Ctrl + F5 to update their cache or they might be able to convert the script to, say, a
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It is confusing. People did ask why nothing happened for them, and admins know how to do this themselves. There is no gain, and this causes confusion.
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673:) that would be mostly useful for sysops. Was reverted, so lets discuss having Gadgets that are primarily useful to admins on here, so far I've got:
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then turns black. Purging Wiki cache of the page makes it white until the next time you go there. However, I can't reproduce it in other pages. --
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people could rapidly pinpoint exactly the gadgets they want, of a quality that they want, and the system could run without external intervention.
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It seems to depend somewhat on other script at Commons; likely a good idea, but someone will need to adapt it to an enwiki-usable script first. --
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Gadgets must fail cleanly in any major browser that is not supported. (as it is, one can't even use prompt() in a script because IE7 blocks it).
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P.S. Please do use "Show preview" button before saving the page. It's a bit difficult to answer you when you're making 13 edits in 20 minutes. —
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with all major browsers in the sense that they do not break anything or terminate with error messages. I do not see an absolute requirement for
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I went bold and rewrite the "rules" for gadgets, though I don't know if this page still is the "official" gadget page, there are so many now.
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I thought I had made it quite clear that the reason for removing the gadgets was NOT that I did not like them (I actually support one, see
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I don't see what the problem is, as long as the section is clearly marked, letting people know that THESE WONT WORK if you ae not +sysop. —
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The same could be said for disruptive use of monobook.js, but often the solution used there is to remove the scripts and protect the file. —
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maintained at all. And it's not even "bugs in other gadgets" - I've worked hard to make sure that none of the gadgets have the problem. --
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few people who are specifically interested in gadgets, it isn't really difficult for them to scan VPT to find the relevant threads. — Carl
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script which could not be controlled by admins. It probably would be simplest to use warn/block since that's harder to get around.
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finished and I will apply the changes. You could also try editing the talk page of the MediaWiki page with the change request. --
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being in Special:Preferences is just silly given that (a) many can't, and (b) there's no particular reason they should have to. –
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I was thinking about that, but that creates a whole new level of bureaucracy. It wouldn't be able to be as informal as it is now.
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If you do not get a response it could also mean that there is no great interest in it (and then it should not become a gadget).
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Someone can just remove the kill switch unless you can protect monobook.js pages to prevent the abusive user from removing it.
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revert). You're basically saying "Well, I wasn't consulted, so I'm going to unilaterally declare your changes controversial".
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1854:. So when you add a gadget some people start using it, so it's not nice to remove it later. That's why it's much better to
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Related projects making use of gadgets (commons:, fr:) have been successfully in using these (though notably de: has not).
1526:(posted April 6)? Since this is a low traffic page and a response may take some time, please respond at my talk page.--
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201:, where the list of admins is hard coded and I update it every now and then. It could probably be worded more clearly. --
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Thank you both, and seconded. I love that thing. What would the proper procedure be for trying to get it restored? -
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I'd say it has to be made cross-browser first. After all, it's not as complex as wikEd or Twinkle. P.S. By the way,
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We are not in a hurry and can wait until we find consensus here, therefore I have reverted your premature change.
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he had removed the gadgets. I have still not gotten any other "discussions" about the gadgets I suggest over at
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proposed at the "proposals" page, that had no objections, simply because there was no-one there to respond. --
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Another option would be to warn and then block users for their actions, no matter what tools they were using ∴
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It is not good to put in buttons all but the most experienced users (who can do this on their own) can't use.
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Mmm, too much confusion. Let the admins, who hopefully know their way around a monobook add it themselves.
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or doesn't know what it does then they simply don't switch it on. There are admin-only scripts listed on
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there is a large contingent of editors who ignore all other technical issues apart from gadgets. — Carl
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or every newly created user script a gadget. Many of the current gadgets should have never been added:
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If users are violating policies through scripts, the solution is to block, after appropriate warnings.
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be functional in most major browsers (cross-browser compatibility). Exceptions must be clearly stated.
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Why don't you try to hide it as I suggested above? (<div id=adminsGadgets style="display:none": -->
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critical methods before they are used. We might provide a browser check in a library to all scripts.
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AlexSm: Well, it is very hard to discuss when no one is responding. I wrote up a suggestion over at
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Personaly, I find monobook a bit wasteful of space, and while Modern isn't perfect, I like it more.
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Can't you add a description to the title of gadgets? Maybe something in the description would help.
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I have now placed invitations to join this discussion at the Village pump or the Community portal.
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And I have announced the gadgets over at two of the village pumps too and asked people to come to
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which some people will have no use for and nobody will be alarmed if the gadgets page is the same.
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the other hand, a broken gadget will only impact the people who go out of their way to select it.
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Sorry, I guess two days wasn't enough time for me to answer :) Anyway, I've answered now at
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Yeah. I've thrown the sysop requirement from common.js into my script for good measure. –
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Additionally, it would be possible for a malicious user to direct an admin to a link like
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with the proposals page is that it doesn't get enough traffic. You removed a gadget that
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to remove that call and use the option under "Preferences:Gadgets"? Thanks in advance. --
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work, and if they are known to not work in an major broswe, then they must be specified.
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Those that are only fixes for other gadgets or skins (report bugs to the authors or the
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Those that are only fixes for other gadgets or skins (report bugs to the authors or the
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is a much better place, since there the gadgets will get more exposure and discussion.
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I say any further discussion of which gadgets should be added or not should go on the
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Ah, wait, I think there is a bug here. Halo 2 is a featured article, but if you check
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I don't think a table is a good way to do it. We simply need a page where user would
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Clearing my browser cache did not fix the issue. Same issue occurs on other pages.
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Disregard that, I tested in CologneBlue, which is the only non-monobook based one.
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Agreed, wikEd is not wikEdDiff. I would have no objection to it being restored. --
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Gadgets must not require their own source code to be edited to update them. -: -->
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interest, quality, and usefulness (please also see the parallel discussion under
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1045:" in rule 2 is an ambiguous term. It is an absolute requirement that a script is
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Number one may require utilizing non-standard constructs, and might be bad imo.
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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and the current rules were created for one single reason: the old way of using
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http://en.wikipedia.org/User:Tra/Sandbox?action=edit&jsaction=pp-semi-small
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and changed the current project page accordingly. I hope that makes sense...
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Can anyone help me with a conflict between one of my Gadget selections on
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be compatible with all major browsers and must not terminate with errors.
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Using Gadgets instead of custom monobooks allows for the use of a single
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here as part of the suggested merge. I have also moved the "rules" from
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Feel free to change the structure of the page. The table is copied from
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Those that are trivial and/or of limited or non-existing functionality
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Ease of use, not all admins know the ins and out of their .js files
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user, then it's not supposed to be a gadget in the first place. —
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document.getElementById && document.getElementsByTagName
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Knowledge:Village pump (technical)#Improved diff gadget problem
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to propose and then discuss scripts to be added to Gadgets ∴
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say I would be happy if it was moved to VPT as well. — Carl
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Knowledge:Gadget/proposals#Tighter page top tabs in MonoBook
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Knowledge:Gadget/proposals#Tighter page top tabs in MonoBook
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Those aimed at a very small and technically versed audience
1187:, you don't have to worry about really old browsers, since
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The source code rule was intended to exclude scripts like
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Those that are mainly statements in an ongoing discussion
1067:"must be compatible, but not necessarily fully functional
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Those that have not been tested and reviewed extensively
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All features of scripts may not useful for all editors
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I have a port of this script for over a week now btw.
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You (i.e. Cacycle) seem to be saying several things
403:(in response to first two comments in section above)
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1858:. Also, with your approach we now have things like
968:point if Alex's suggestion below is implemented. –
2256:Please let me address some of the topics above:
1524:Knowledge:Help_desk#peer_review_-_clock_conflict
786:. I think I'll try that on another project... ∴
773:links ready for a quick one-time script usage ∴
735:Knowledge talk:WikiProject User scripts/Gadgets
1899:, instead I get these arguments over procedure.
1850:Gadgets are different as they create something
1251:Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject User scripts/Gadgets
1164:take care of people that doesn't care to read.
131:Gadgets must work in all major browsers. -: -->
2646:change to another interface page that you did
1069:" is also in line with the earlier discussion
1056:There are widely used and powerful tools like
2386:doesn't make a change controversial. — Carl
1080:I think it would be better to say that they
1652:to explain his not discussed changes here.
1272:Knowledge:WikiProject User scripts/Gadgets
1255:Knowledge:WikiProject User scripts/Gadgets
1307:What is the preferred way to use scripts?
1297:for suggested fixes to EditTop gadget ∴
2591:Well said, I full agree with Random832.
2571:wasn't posted to a wide enough audience
2543:You say VPT has too much traffic - the
1967:I've altered the message at the top of
1648:I have added wikEd back and have asked
1522:and the peerreview in my monobook. the
1381:OS: Ubuntu Linux 7.10 (andLinux kernel)
845:?action=edit&jsaction=pp-semi-small
14:
1559:wikEd no longer available as a gadget?
331:Yes, though that is where that bug is
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
2098:not overly technical, so why not use
1376:Issue with the Article Quality gadget
1798:question for you about that over at
1683:I'd like to suggest the adoption of
199:User:ais523 non-admin/adminrights.js
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719:Please comment here. Thank you! —
608:Comments regarding disruptive users
23:
2754:Knowledge:Village pump (proposals)
2301:Knowledge:Village pump (proposals)
2227:Knowledge:Village pump (technical)
2100:Knowledge:Village pump (proposals)
1226:I propose we merge this page into
24:
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2611:Let me be very clear about this:
659:MediaWiki talk:Gadgets-definition
264:MediaWiki talk:Gadgets-definition
127:Suggestion: more permissive rules
2539:too much traffic? try not enough
1295:MediaWiki talk:Gadget-edittop.js
29:
1975:as the venue for discussion. --
1712:"must be discussed first" - ick
1581:removed it after discussion at
2515:MediaWiki bug reporting system
2276:MediaWiki bug reporting system
2169:simply doesn't work currently.
799:Addressing AmiDaniel's points
13:
1:
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1969:Mediawiki:Gadgets-definition
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1514:Clock - peer review conflict
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7:
2569:- or it could mean that it
1733:The removed new entry was:
1276:Knowledge:Gadget/evaluation
584:User:TheDJ/Gadget-HotCat.js
540:Commons:MediaWiki:HotCat.js
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2716:etc - is already watching.
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2262:every existing user script
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2219:Knowledge:Gadget/proposals
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2009:Knowledge:Gadget/proposals
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1103:To disambiguate the word
645:17:30, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
2309:Village pump (technical)
2305:Village pump (proposals)
2163:Village pump (technical)
569:12:56, 6 December 2007 (
534:Suggested gadget: HotCat
473:10:04, 5 December 2007 (
205:10:05, 5 December 2007 (
101:19:11, 4 December 2007 (
1384:Browser: Firefox 2.0.12
1107:I had changed it into:
2521:are you talking to me?
2428:There are hundreds of
1661:Yay! Many thanks :) -
1257:to this project page (
843:Actually those links (
219:Gadget's Configuration
2786:fine with me. — Carl
2501:Think outside the box
2430:existing user scripts
1729:03:29, 23 April 2008
42:of past discussions.
18:Knowledge talk:Gadget
2628:, and article edits
983:, then show through
2337:add it to the list.
2252:Why gadgets and how
1520:Special:Preferences
1183:As long as you use
1075:"must fail cleanly"
657:Section moved from
2622:, on my talk page
1791:Yes, CBM is right.
1745:before adding them
1051:full functionality
985:MediaWiki:Sysop.js
784:MediaWiki:Sysop.js
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508:Greasemonkey
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395:Restrictions
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2478:Kim Bruning
2415:Kim Bruning
1971:to declare
1737:8. Gadgets
1340:Harryboyles
1293:Please see
1197:wikibits.js
1191:checks for
1063:"must work"
1043:Should work
288:—Preceding
36:This is an
2654:, much? --
1545:WP:CHICAGO
1468:Pyrospirit
1047:compatible
538:I suggest
2814:Random832
2726:Random832
2671:Random832
2656:Random832
2617:Random832
2575:Random832
2553:Random832
2526:Random832
2161:Yes, the
1977:Random832
1689:Dispenser
1579:This edit
1426:this link
758:lifeguard
638:Superm401
629:Random832
461:Random832
184:lifeguard
152:Random832
67:Archive 2
61:Archive 1
2818:contribs
2730:contribs
2720:process.
2704:Question
2675:contribs
2660:contribs
2579:contribs
2557:contribs
2530:contribs
2222:exposed.
2173:case of
1981:contribs
1663:Clueless
1614:Clueless
1604:contribs
1565:Clueless
1494:ReyBrujo
1482:contribs
1430:ReyBrujo
1412:ReyBrujo
1117:Gadgets
1110:Gadgets
898:xaosflux
722:xaosflux
616:xaosflux
596:contribs
302:contribs
290:unsigned
2637:Сасусlе
2545:problem
2439:Сасусlе
2370:Сасусlе
2325:Сасусlе
2313:Сасусlе
2201:Сасусlе
2102:then? —
1994:Сасусlе
1827:Сасусlе
1754:Сасусlе
1654:Сасусlе
1650:Prodego
1549:WP:LOTD
1354:Сасусlе
1280:Сасусlе
1263:Сасусlе
1156:Сасусlе
1127:Сасусlе
1017:"Rules"
1003:Prodego
955:Prodego
928:Prodego
883:Prodego
805:WP:US/S
425:Prodego
357:Prodego
340:Prodego
294:Prodego
250:Prodego
95:WP:US/S
39:archive
2774:AlexSm
2763:AlexSm
2742:AlexSm
2652:WP:OWN
2175:WP:OWN
2104:AlexSm
2044:AlexSm
2013:AlexSm
2005:WP:VPT
1973:WP:VPT
1949:AlexSm
1864:AlexSm
1703:AlexSm
1587:AlexSm
1368:AlexSm
1299:AlexSm
1201:AlexSm
1119:should
1105:"work"
1082:should
989:AlexSm
862:(Talk)
836:(Talk)
821:tested
788:AlexSm
775:AlexSm
739:AlexSm
667:WP:BRD
665:Well,
567:ais523
515:(Talk)
471:ais523
452:AlexSm
443:(Talk)
411:(Talk)
372:AlexSm
203:ais523
163:AlexSm
116:AlexSm
99:ais523
85:AlexSm
2307:plus
2260:make
1893:after
1596:TheDJ
1315:Ckatz
1222:Merge
1195:(see
1071:above
1058:wikEd
970:Steel
943:Steel
871:Steel
849:Steel
812:Steel
707:Notes
588:TheDJ
16:<
2794:talk
2693:talk
2615:and
2600:talk
2482:talk
2458:talk
2419:talk
2394:talk
2355:talk
2238:talk
2186:talk
2140:talk
2072:talk
2033:talk
2011:"? —
1915:talk
1823:here
1811:talk
1774:talk
1739:must
1725:talk
1667:talk
1618:talk
1600:talk
1569:talk
1498:talk
1474:talk
1434:talk
1416:talk
1239:Toth
1199:) ∴
1174:Toth
1144:Toth
1112:must
1094:Toth
1031:Toth
987:) ∴
752:Mike
695:Cons
677:Pros
671:diff
642:Talk
592:talk
497:Pika
322:Pika
298:talk
277:Pika
262:See
235:Pika
178:Mike
2790:CBM
2689:CBM
2648:not
2631:).
2549:was
2454:CBM
2437:).
2390:CBM
2351:CBM
2136:CBM
2068:CBM
2029:CBM
1947:. —
1852:new
1770:CBM
1721:CBM
1701:. —
1541:bio
1324:spy
1274:to
1261:).
1234:Aza
1169:Aza
1139:Aza
1089:Aza
1065:as
1026:Aza
859:Tra
833:Tra
762:|
549:Lar
512:Tra
490:Fun
440:Tra
408:Tra
315:Fun
270:Fun
228:Fun
188:|
2820:)
2812:--
2792:·
2732:)
2691:·
2677:)
2662:)
2625:,
2602:)
2594:--
2581:)
2559:)
2532:)
2519:-
2484:)
2476:--
2456:·
2421:)
2413:--
2392:·
2353:·
2240:)
2232:--
2188:)
2180:--
2138:·
2070:·
2031:·
1983:)
1917:)
1909:--
1813:)
1805:--
1772:·
1723:·
1669:)
1635:ka
1632:on
1629:El
1627:--
1620:)
1606:)
1602:•
1571:)
1551:)
1500:)
1485:)
1451:ff
1436:)
1418:)
1395:ff
749:–
737:∴
640:-
598:)
594:•
579:)
551::
483:)
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333::)
304:)
300:•
215:)
175:–
111:)
2816:(
2796:)
2788:(
2728:(
2695:)
2687:(
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2555:(
2528:(
2517:)
2480:(
2460:)
2452:(
2417:(
2396:)
2388:(
2357:)
2349:(
2278:)
2236:(
2184:(
2177:.
2142:)
2134:(
2074:)
2066:(
2035:)
2027:(
1979:(
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1809:(
1802:.
1776:)
1768:(
1727:)
1719:(
1665:(
1616:(
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1547:/
1543:/
1539:/
1537:c
1535:/
1533:t
1531:(
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1478:·
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1455:m
1432:(
1414:(
1399:m
1231:→
1166:→
1136:→
1086:→
1073:(
1041:"
1023:→
755:.
590:(
577:C
574:T
571:U
557:c
555:/
553:t
481:C
478:T
475:U
296:(
213:C
210:T
207:U
181:.
150:—
109:C
106:T
103:U
50:.
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