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that he is only involved with
Knowledge to impose a POV on the Prem Rawat articles is risible. It seems to me that for Knowledge to continue to develop into the world's best encyclopedia, it needs mainly to take very seriously the standards that have already democratically evolved, and every article needs to be developed with the same care that went into formulating the Guidelines. The complaints that I have seen that Jossi was involved in forming those guidelines demonstrate an ignorance of the way Knowledge works. NPOV, reliability of sources and verifiability are uppermost in all articles, and the principle of "do no harm" is paramount to a biography of a living person. Tabloidal stuff with loaded messages can be found anywhere with respect to any prominent person, and doesn't belong here. Jossi has worked patiently to bring these policies to the attention of editors. This does not mean there should be no criticism in the article, it just needs to be intelligent criticism. The persistent efforts of some editors to insert references to the subject's body weight and reported liking for icecream are examples of the sort of thing I have seen Jossi approach with at times an almost superhuman patience.
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followers is of course very important to keep things balanced. What is clearly the current problem is that Jossi is not only an administrator but also is a highly dedicated Rawat follower with some important position as a the latter's webmaster, PR guy or whatever, and that considerably upsets the status quo between opposing POV's. Notably he has been judged as acting unfairly, not only by critics (which one might expect) but by neutral editors. I think that a more ideal 'level playing field' would be one where there is an experienced 'COI-less' administrator and all others are permitted to carry on. If ex-followers are to be considered ' persona non grata' then obviously current followers should be also. I don't think that's a practical solution but then again, I would willingly retire my influence if that were the case. As a critic, it may surprise you that probably the best outcome for me would be that the article about Prem Rawat was written entirely by totally non-involved people. I have complete faith that this situation would do fair justice to Prem Rawat.
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reach Admin status with that aim, including editing a wider range of articles than those related to Rawat, and getting involved in framing
Knowledge policies. If his interest was simply to improve Knowledge he should have retired from all involvement with Rawat related articles, so that there was no possibility of Knowledge being tarnished by his COI. There are plenty of other Admins to ensure that the Rawat articles are neutral. Also, Momento above has stated he has no COI. This is untrue - he has been a follower of Rawat for over 30 years, and has held positions of responsibility in Rawat's organisations. Although he has a right to contribute here under an anonymous pseudonym, he does not have the right to be untruthful. --
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includes the Prem Rawat article. The recent "The
Register" article and editors who are antagonistic towards Jossi and/or Prem Rawat have created a "perfect storm". Numerous editors, many anonymous flocked to the Rawat article to add "criticism". Unfortunately, much of the "criticism" is a clear violation of the Biographies of Living Persons policy and that produced much reverting and edit warring. Jossi and WillBeback worked together to come up with the 1RR proposal which slowed things right down and was producing constructive results. Stricter enforcing of existing Wiki policies will solve the problem and that's what Jossi tries to do via the talk page. And for the record, I have no COI.
1148:, that unbalances the status quo between opposing POV's and creates a very particular and detrimental atmosphere of mistrust. I choose not to criticise Jossi for POV pushing since that may appear hypocritical (and our impartial editors seem to be voicing that complaint as I believe is appropriate.) My request here therefore is that the principle of allowing administrators to police articles where they have a high degree of COI remains the focus of arbitration discussions and, that this subject is not compromised or diluted by other issues. Thank you.
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community's admins, and is unlikely to be well resolved by other obvious means. (Important disclosure: If I have given any significant view or opinion on this in the past please will someone let me know. None comes to mind right now as a source of non-neutrality, but this was a high profile issue in the media a month ago, and like many users I'm fairly sure I've taken a look at this matter at some point or other as a result.)
1276:. Clearly my intentions had not been understood by other editors the majority of whom experienced my edit as disruptive. Nevertheless I consider that much of the continuing problem faced by editors is caused by attempting to squeeze a properly referenced article into a POV straightjacket imposed by the inadequacies of the existing article structure. Since February I have limited my contributions to the talk page.
1263:. I am happy to acknowledge a high level of commitment to two ideas which affect my editing of the Rawat articles. a) the idea (based upon rational assessment of evidence) that Prem Rawat has been the figurehead of a cult like collection of organisations within which abuse and moral fraud has been endemic. b) that the Knowledge Rawat articles should be structured on a broad base of appropriate references.
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1251:. The Arbitrators may consider it a content issue, however a source of contention, which has been used in a manner of sustained disruption by pro Rawat editors has been the issue of the religious affiliation (or claimed affiliation) of academic commentators upon Prem Rawat. This issue arose because in the light of the use of reference to the the work of
968:), restricting myself to talk-page discussions and reporting disruption at AN/I. Despite requests from me and other editors to substantiate the challenge with diff-based evidence to any type of COI-based disruption or abuse of admin privileges, no such evidence has been forthcoming, leaving me with no recourse to defend myself.
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While asking the enforcing administrator and seeking reviews at AN or AE are not mandatory prior to seeking a decision from the committee, once the committee has reviewed a request, further substantive review at any forum is barred. The sole exception is editors under an active sanction who may still
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Administrators are free to modify sanctions placed by former administrators – that is, editors who do not have the administrator permission enabled (due to a temporary or permanent relinquishment or desysop) – without regard to the requirements of this section. If an administrator modifies a sanction
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7) Knowledge articles that present material about living people can affect their subjects' lives. Knowledge editors who deal with these articles have a responsibility to consider the legal and ethical implications of their actions when doing so. Biographical material must be written with the greatest
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6) Knowledge users are expected to behave reasonably, calmly, and courteously in their interactions with other users; to approach even difficult situations in a dignified fashion and with a constructive and collaborative outlook; and to avoid acting in a manner that brings the project into disrepute.
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In addition to the disruption, evidence of which will be provided if ArbCom accepts to hear the case, several editors continue to challenge my involvement, despite my
February 10 self-imposed moratorium in editing the article , in response to the feedback from the community related to my declared COI
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If COI is defined as editing that is incompatible with "the aims of
Knowledge which is to produce a neutral, reliably sourced encyclopedia", then Jossi is innocent. He has made great efforts for many years to ensure that all articles he becomes involved in are "neutral and reliably sourced" and that
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it was pointed out that Geaves was not only a long term follower of Rawat but was instrumental in Rawat becoming exposed to a western audience. In a ‘tit for tat’ response pro Rawat editors keep demanding that the religious affiliation of other academics must be made explicit or their work excluded
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when their interests in editing
Knowledge, or the interests of those they represent, conflict or potentially conflict with the interests of the Knowledge project in producing a neutral, verifiable encyclopaedia. An editor will have a conflict of interest with respect to an article if, for example,
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Friedrich Engels would have had difficulty editing the Karl Marx article, because he was a close friend, follower and collaborator of Marx. Any situation where strong relationships can develop may trigger a conflict of interest. Conflict of interest can be personal, religious, political, academic,
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both prior to and following publication of The
Register article has been ambiguous to say the least. His statement that he has a COI has not inhibited him from acting as administrator to the Rawat articles while at the same time officiously pronouncing upon his interpretation of Knowledge rules as
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Regarding Jossi's "Despite requests from me and other editors to substantiate the challenge with diff-based evidence to any type of disruption or abuse of admin privileges, no such evidence has been forthcoming" – we all know this is not about abuse of admin privileges. There's no desysop request,
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Thus, when a user with a conflict of interest makes contributions, the presence of the conflict is a good reason for close review of those contributions by the community, but the contributions are not necessarily problematic; scrutiny must always be with reference to content policy. The focus, as
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Accept - As parties on all sides agree, 1/ an "unusually divisive" matter between administrators, 2/ one that has had multiple attempts to resolve between those commenting above, none of which have come to anything, and 3/ one that needs resolving and is unlikely to go away, is detrimental to the
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I have been without internet connection for nearly a week, so might be out of touch with the current state of play. Jossi has worked with extraordinary diligence to promote the ideas and ideals of
Knowledge through tens of thousands of edits to a vast number of articles. The suggestion made above
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In response to people who suggest I (or other editors with opposing POV) have an equally unwelcome COI to Jossi I would argue this: Our interests are on the whole to help correct imbalance in that article, but our opposite interests should counter-balance each other. That is the workable and fair
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Although Jossi has declared a COI, he has not revealed which organisation that promotes Rawat's teachings he works for, nor in what capacity. From what I know of Jossi, it is my belief that his only purpose on
Knowledge is to protect Prem Rawat's reputation, and has done whatever is required to
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All actions designated as arbitration enforcement actions, including those alleged to be out of process or against existing policy, must first be appealed following arbitration enforcement procedures to establish if such enforcement is inappropriate before the action may be reversed or formally
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These provisions apply only to contentious topics placed by administrators and to blocks placed by administrators to enforce arbitration case decisions. They do not apply to sanctions directly authorised by the committee, and enacted either by arbitrators or by arbitration clerks, or to special
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I also urge acceptance of this case. However I think it would be absurd to make this an issue of POV pushing by non-administrators. There is a lively battle going on there with all asserting their POV's with varying degrees of civility. The presence of people who have not been and are not Rawat
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Accept. Concerns that Jossi has a conflict of interest in Prem Rawat and related articles have been raised widely, sometimes in undoubted good faith. A new look at the subject could help prevent disputes. Meanwhile the community-imposed sanction on the articles has manifestly not succeeded in
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I am happy to let the facts speak for themselves, Momento, so could you either confirm or deny that you have been a follower of Rawat for over 30 years and held positions of authority in the organisations that support his work. If you confirm my information, then simply declare your COI, and
1272:] to the Prem Rawat article which I believed I had adequately prefaced on the talk page. The object of the edit was to extend the range of references, to achieve which I then argued, and still do, it is necessary to change the structure of an article that had been created under sustained
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of the Prem Rawat articles. There have been frequent charges and counter charges by various editors for several years over a general position of either current ‘students’ (followers) and of former followers of Rawat as editors of WP. The relevant part of
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Appeals may be made only by the editor under sanction and only for a currently active sanction. Requests for modification of page restrictions may be made by any editor. The process has three possible stages (see "Important notes" below). The editor may:
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I would encourage the ArbCom to hear this case with a view to impose article probation and/or other restrictions, as well as evaluate my behavior and the behaviors of all other involved editors and assess if any type of restrictions should be imposed.
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placed by a former administrator, the administrator who made the modification becomes the "enforcing administrator". If a former administrator regains the tools, the provisions of this section again apply to their unmodified enforcement actions.
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and related articles and pages who have or may be perceived as having a conflict of interest with respect to these articles are reminded to review and to comply with
Knowledge's policies and guidelines on NPOV and conflicts of interest.
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John Brauns suggests below that I have been a student of Rawat for 30 years therefore I must have a COI. In fact, my over riding interest in the Rawat article is that it should be "neutral and reliably sourced", let the facts speak for
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4) Though the presence of a conflict of interest can often explain the production of problematic content, its mere existence is not problematic; indeed, a well-managed conflict of interest can lead to productive contributions.
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financial, and legal. It is not determined by area, but is created by relationships that involve a high level of personal commitment to, involvement with, or dependence upon, a person, subject, idea, tradition, or organization.
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2) Any current non-expired Article Probation sanctions are hereby vacated and replaced with standard Discretionary Sanctions in the same terms and durations as the vacated sanctions. If appropriate, these may be appealed at
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To disclose on the relevant talk pages any circumstances (but not including personal identifying information) that constitute or may reasonably be perceived as constituting a conflict of interest with respect to that
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Nothing in this section prevents an administrator from replacing an existing sanction issued by another administrator with a new sanction if fresh misconduct has taken place after the existing sanction was applied.
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This procedure applies to appeals related to, and modifications of, actions taken by administrators to enforce the Committee's remedies. It does not apply to appeals related to the remedies directly enacted by the
1586:"Who has written the material should be irrelevant so long as these policies are closely adhered to. The imputation of conflict of interest is not by itself a good reason to remove sound material from articles."
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request an easing or removal of the sanction on the grounds that said sanction is no longer needed, but such requests may only be made once every six months, or whatever longer period the committee may specify.
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0) Should any user subject to a restriction in this case violate that restriction, that user may be blocked, initially for up to one month, and then with blocks increasing in duration to a maximum of one year.
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Even truly neutral participants have objected to his involvement on these grounds. Because the article is so contentious, the last thing it needs is Rawat's own man wielding power there. I feel that his is
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that Jossi would be disallowed any further involvement in any Prem Rawat-related topic, via whatever media under the WMF's remit, for unrelentlessly protecting POV-pushers like Momento and Janice Rowe.
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Please do not edit this page directly unless you are either 1) an Arbitrator, 2) an Arbitration Clerk, or 3) adding yourself to this case. Statements on this page are original comments provided at
1509:; that is, they must fairly portray all significant points of view on a subject in accordance with their prevalence. The neutral point of view is the guiding editorial principle of Knowledge, and
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The neutral point of view's requirement that points of view be represented fairly and accurately, and Knowledge's nature as an encyclopaedia, demand that articles should always use the
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1) The purpose of Knowledge is to create a high-quality, free-content encyclopedia in an atmosphere of camaraderie and mutual respect among contributors. Use of the site for
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have been under active editing for over three years, despite this they remain unstable and unsatisfactory. For a sustained period prior to publication of The Register article
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Any block, restriction, ban, or sanction performed under the authorisation of a remedy for this case must be logged at Knowledge:Arbitration enforcement log, not here.
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I fully admit that I (as a self-confessed ex-member) should certainly not be in an administrative position there though. Neither should Jossi by the same token imho.
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they stand to benefit financially from editing the article, or if the article is about them or about a business or organisation that they represent.
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has, on a number of occasions, indicated that he has a conflict of interest with respect to articles about the Prem Rawat movement (for example
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It is important to distinguish between the provisions of the Close relationships paragraph and the specific COI which apparently affects Jossi.
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and serve as opening statements. As such, they should not be altered. Any evidence you wish to provide to the Arbitrators should go on the
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and I, the article was placed on 1RR and disruption probation. This helped for a while, only to be later ignored (See AN/I reports:
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The evidence presented at this time has not disclosed a history of problematic editing, in terms of basic content policy, by Jossi.
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editing restriction was applied to a number of Prem Rawat related articles for a period of three months beginning 4 March 2008.
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surrounding articles related to the Prem Rawat movement, which has at times provided for a difficult editing environment.
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principle that I understand Knowledge has embraced. People who disagree are also welcome to edit and argue their case.
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prior affirmative agreement for the modification at (a) AE or (b) AN or (c) ARCA (see "Important notes" below).
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Recuse. My past involvement in this matter has gained a high profile, so I think I should bow out of any case.
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5) Administrative tools may not be used to further the administrator's own position in a content dispute.
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to re-designate existing discretionary sanctions remedies as contentious topic designations.
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certainly not by me, and I have none seen brought forward in the Prem Rawat-related issues.
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No administrator may modify or remove a sanction placed by another administrator without:
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as needed, but this page should not be edited otherwise. Please raise any questions at
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case is amended by striking the remedy designating Prem Rawat as a contentious topic (
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did not indicate that Jossi had made problematic edits to the Prem Rawat article. As
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Knowledge:Requests for arbitration/Prem Rawat#Logs of blocks, bans, and restrictions
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1) All sanctions imposed under the provisions of this decision are to be logged at
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at the Prem Rawat 2 case page is to be merged into the original Prem Rawat log at
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to otherwise contribute to the editorial process, for example by contributing to
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in the past month, a substantial amount of disruption has taken place, including
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This remedy supersedes the existing community based one-revert rule restriction.
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is required. If consensus at AE or AN is unclear, the status quo prevails.
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ask the enforcing administrator to reconsider their original decision;
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on pages relating to Prem Rawat. On 10 February 2008, he declared his
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for Prem Rawat related articles, a self-imposed restriction to which
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they further his preferred presentation of Prem Rawat on Knowledge.
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Knowledge:Requests for arbitration/Prem Rawat#Log of blocks and bans
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Knowledge:Requests for arbitration/Mantanmoreland#Editors instructed
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Accept to consider the behaviour of all editors to this article. --
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Conflict of Interest and I confirm here that I do not have one.
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are authorised with immediate effect for all pages relating to
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Community-enforced 1RR and disruption probation (March 4, 2008)
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procedure for the standard appeals and modifications provision
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Knowledge:Requests for arbitration#Requests for clarification
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adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.
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adopted 3 May 2014, this provision did not require a vote.
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6.1) Jossi disclosed his potential conflict of interest
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I repeat the request I have formulated earlier today at
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Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter (6/0/1/0)
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Motion: contentious topic designation (December 2022)
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1032:(italicised part copied from the recently concluded
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aware of the need to behave in a circumspect manner
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2288:Passed 11 to 0, 16:31, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
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2001:, broadly construed, are designated as a
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1268:Acknowledgement of unintended disruption.
1173:webmaster of sites critical of Prem Rawat
966:User:Jossi/Response#Declaration of intent
1249:Religious affiliation of Sources and COI
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2226:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
2109:Special:EmailUser/Arbitration Committee
1986:Passed 8 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1944:Passed 9 to 1, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1892:Passed 8 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1861:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1764:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1741:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1707:Passed 8 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1679:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1651:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1607:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1592:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1560:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1525:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1495:Passed 9 to 0, 14:15, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
1261:Acknowledgement of ‘Close relationship’
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1321:I have read the Knowledge guidelines
2337:Passed 10 to 0 with 1 abstention by
2111:(or, if email access is revoked, to
1867:Jossi has a self-imposed restriction
1851:observed in closing the discussion:
1702:concerning the Prem Rawat movement.
944:On March 4, upon a proposal made by
2094:arbitration enforcement noticeboard
23:
2103:submit a request for amendment at
1751:4) There has been some history of
1698:, and to a lesser extent, certain
1501:Neutral point of view and sourcing
24:
18:Knowledge:Requests for arbitration
2415:
2347:Motion: Prem Rawat (October 2023)
2324:discretionary sanctions procedure
1881:intention to edit only talk pages
1171:John Brauns is self-described as
2341:at 21:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
2322:21) Each reference to the prior
2297:at 21:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
2247:Standard Discretionary sanctions
2161:For a request to succeed, either
2115:
2015:at 21:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
1962:at 21:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
1841:conflict of interest noticeboard
1575:always, must be on the content.
1484:furtherance of outside conflicts
1270:On 26.02.08 I made a major edit
60:on 21:36, 14 December 2022 (UTC)
49:on 16:31, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
2378:at 18:37, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
2128:Modifications by administrators
1839:Further to this observation, a
1747:Incivility and personal attacks
1547:from editing that article, but
1518:best and most reputable sources
71:on 18:37, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
1951:Superseded on 20 December 2012
934:, and numerous round-trips to
13:
1:
2080:Appeals by sanctioned editors
1992:Contentious topic designation
30:on 02:31, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
2365:contentious topics procedure
2328:contentious topics procedure
2066:0) Appeals and modifications
2024:18:37, 10 October 2023 (UTC)
1657:Biographies of living people
1302:) 13:08, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
1116:PatW is self-described as a
7:
2404:Knowledge arbitration cases
2192:discussed at another venue.
2098:administrators’ noticeboard
2037:Enforcement of restrictions
1446:Temporary injunction (none)
38:on 14:16, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
10:
2420:
2308:
1875:voluntarily, and has been
1672:avoiding original research
1618:Unseemly conduct, such as
1486:, publishing or promoting
1440:16:36, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
1426:13:44, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
1412:08:03, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
1394:23:46, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
1380:23:35, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
1365:22:43, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
1356:22:59, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
1335:13:10, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
1317:13:08, 18 March 2008 (UTC)
1289:16:40, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
1189:01:15, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
1158:12:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
1134:00:49, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
1100:18:57, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
1085:02:25, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
1069:21:41, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
1046:21:05, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
982:20:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
210:20:29, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
77:Watchlist all case pages:
2116:
2057:Appeals and modifications
1628:assumptions of bad faith
2270:Arbitration Enforcement
2203:In accordance with the
2182:
2047:In accordance with the
1640:disruptive point-making
1456:All numbering based on
1370:preventing disrupting.
1256:on the grounds of COI.
1203:The Prem Rawat articles
131:#Log of blocks and bans
2092:request review at the
1997:All pages relating to
1857:
1700:other related articles
1662:care and attention to
1588:
1480:advocacy or propaganda
1400:Matthew Brown (Morven)
1010:
1853:
1713:Existing restrictions
1584:
1531:Conflicts of interest
1507:neutral point of view
1340:Preliminary decisions
1002:
2232:Amendments by motion
2213:Logging of sanctions
1537:conflict of interest
1470:Purpose of Knowledge
1004:Hereby, then, I ask
844:Requests for comment
1873:on 1 September 2004
1535:3) An editor has a
1236:Close relationships
924:tendentious editing
109:arbitration request
1458:/Proposed decision
1232:would seem to be:
124:/Proposed decision
2374:Passed 9 to 0 by
2256:Article Probation
2198:
2197:
2096:("AE") or at the
2003:contentious topic
1918:article probation
1903:Article probation
1646:, is prohibited.
1644:gaming the system
1488:original research
980:
104:
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2062:
2061:
1976:2.1) Editors on
1972:Editors reminded
1926:personal attacks
1914:related articles
1845:in February 2008
1820:
1793:deleted contribs
1757:personal attacks
1690:Locus of dispute
1685:Findings of fact
1620:personal attacks
1418:Charles Matthews
1038:Francis Schonken
989:Francis Schonken
976:
946:User:Will Beback
932:personal attacks
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812:deleted contribs
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263:Francis Schonken
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66:Case amended by
55:Case amended by
44:Case amended by
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2011:Amended by
1885:he has held
1843:discussion
1545:discouraged
1432:Newyorkbrad
1281:Nik Wright2
1196:Nik Wright2
1181:John Brauns
1165:John Brauns
1092:John Brauns
1075:themselves.
695:John Brauns
599:Nik Wright2
551:Janice Rowe
215:Will Beback
174:protections
36:Case Closed
28:Case Opened
2356:Prem Rawat
2251:Prem Rawat
2075:Committee.
1999:Prem Rawat
1978:Prem Rawat
1930:incivility
1910:Prem Rawat
1831:Prem Rawat
1811:block user
1805:filter log
1753:incivility
1696:Prem Rawat
1668:neutrality
1636:harassment
1624:incivility
1549:encouraged
1478:, such as
1465:Principles
1253:Ron Geaves
928:soapboxing
876:Prem Rawat
830:block user
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186:page moves
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180:deletions
120:/Workshop
115:subpage.
113:/Evidence
2398:Category
1898:Remedies
1849:Thatcher
1787:contribs
1632:trolling
1430:Accept.
1398:Accept.
1360:Accept.
1036:, D.) --
1006:formally
806:contribs
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2275:3) The
2259:remedy.
1734:details
1613:Decorum
1327:Rumiton
1309:Rumiton
1296:Rumiton
1077:Momento
1061:Momento
1053:Momento
936:WP:AN/I
893:protect
888:history
407:Andries
359:Rumiton
311:Momento
2376:motion
2339:motion
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2295:motion
2239:motion
2105:"ARCA"
2022:motion
2013:motion
1960:motion
1642:, and
1580:states
1386:bainer
1362:Kirill
1274:WP:OWN
1230:WP:COI
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1018:WP:COI
996:WP:ANI
978:(talk)
897:delete
192:rights
168:blocks
68:motion
57:motion
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1776:Jossi
1770:Jossi
1730:Jossi
1030:page.
964:(See
914:views
906:watch
902:links
868:Jossi
455:Msalt
151:Jossi
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1928:and
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