User talk:La comadreja/Archive 1

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the will of many of their inhabitants, but they still considered the land part of their empire rather than a subject colony. The Holy Roman Empire, which was at times unable to control the land under its nominal jurisdiction, was also not an occupying country. Now for Israel. IMO, the Israel-Palestine conflict has developed a special vocabulary of its own. For example, places that are called "settlements" would be called "towns" or "villages" anywhere else--towns and villages can be settled by new groups of inhabitants, and the words "town" and "village" don't imply anything about their age. I think the word "occupied" may be another word that has been co-opted by some parties in the conflict, and given a new use. These groups are significant, but do not represent everyone. Nominally, the West Bank and Gaza Strip are part of Israel--Israel claims so, and is certainly the country that is asked to relinquish them in the name of peace. Until relatively recently, they were represented on the maps I used to see as being part of Israel. Nowadays, they're often drawn with some type of asterisk or something. While Knowledge is supposed to use standard English in its articles, standard English is not free from POV pushing, and many words that relate to the conflict seem to be examples of this. Or perhaps whether land is "occupied" or not really is in the eye of the beholder? --

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queston, what has enabled the Jews to survive so long and the answer necessarily involves a triumphalist narrative that ultimately I found smug and congratulatory. Now, there is a valid claim about continuity for thousands of years including periods of diversity and Dimont's narrative is not "wrong" (there seldom is a simple right or wrong when dealing with the big questions of history). But the fact is there are many problems with this narrative, with assumptions about continuity, and triumphalism. Other historians have made claims that don't make me feel very comfortable, they really rub against the kind of post-Holocaust post-Israel identity I was brought up with. But I learned to find them far more interesting, just as an intellectual, as a scholar, and while they forced me to rehink what it means to be Jewish in the end i think I was left with a more meaningful sense of my self and my people. I think it was the Schwartz volume that first really gave me a sense of a more complicated but interesting view of history. But there is no question, Dimont spins a good yarn, and he put a lot of research into the book, he obviously cared about it.

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the rest of my life. The San Juans are fantastic (I lived in Anacortes on Fidalgo Island for a few years). Whenever out-of-town or out-of-state visitors come here in the summer months, taking the ferry from Anacortes through the San Juans to Victoria, B.C. is always a must and something those visitors comment on as being one of the best "boat rides" they have ever taken. Seeing Orcas on the trip is always a plus, of course! The Skagit is the largest US river north of the Columbia River and is a wild and scenic river. I have a wonderful view of it from my front deck (but when it floods, we are thankfully high enough above it to never have to worry about flooding ourselves) and the Bald Eagles, Great Blue Herons, Osprey, and various geese, swans, and ducks that fly over and around it. And yes, the East River is...well - never mind. No comparison, right? (but New York City is quite an amazing place, actually) Take care. --

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distinguish between a conqueror of unwilling foreign subjects, a country that uses its military to annex territory with the consent of the people in that territory but against the will of their government, an imperfect outcome of a war over a disputed border, and the resolution of a violent struggle against a national separatist movement? In some of these situations, acquiring land by conquest would be the just course of action. Besides, I'm not convinced that international law changes whether land would be "occupied" or not if it is conquered by another country. Mostly, I think "occupation" is defined by what area the conqueror and the conquered (but especially the conqueror because history is written by the winners), consider the land to be part of. Also, re: the historical examples I gave as well as other historical examples you can think of: where would you draw the line between occupation and non-occupation? --

5548:, now deleted. But NPOV materials on Israelite idolatry are a very interesting subject. Perhaps these materials could be spun off into their own article, for now? I don't really know where to look because this is not the topic I know the most about, but would be interested in seeing some online sources. Anyway, if a particular god is being worshiped by Israelites I'm not sure where to draw the line between calling it an "Israelite" god and calling it a foreign god worshiped by the Israelites, even if it originated elsewhere. I'm not convinced the Tanakh is a reliable, NPOV source--because it was promotional material for the YHWH-alone facet of ancient Israelite religious practice, it may have set the bar lower than most ancient Israelites for what it considered a "foreign" practice of worship. Many cultures have foreign influences but at some point, these elements are considered shared rather than borrowed. Take 5668:(crypto-Jews and crypto-Muslims) are probably worth mentioning in an article about the religion of Spain. If the readers of the article would not be expected to know about the fundamental principles of Judaism and Islam, a brief description of these religions would belong in that article as well. As with Judaism and Islam in Spain, paganism in ancient Israel seems to have been significant enough to be promoted by rulers such as Jeroboam and Ahab before the Yahweh-alone form of worship won out. I think readers would be interested in knowing what other religions were around, besides the one that survived, and how these religions were known to the ancient Israelites. We are more dependant on the archaeologists to reconstruct the pagan perspectives, so a section about paganism might give more weight to the archaeology. Just some thoughts. BTW, your username intrigues me--what does it mean? -- 628:. Also aimed at a general audience, it is a series of essays by leading scholars on the principal sources for anyone studying Judaism: the Bible, the Midrash, Mishnah, Talmud, and so on. The essays provide information about the sources themselves but also about the different ways different scholars use/study these sources. I can recommend more specific books on specific topics or historical periods, but these three books really provide a very strong foundation for improving almost any article on Judaism/Judaism related topics. I hope you do not mind my making recommendations. These books are longer than Dimont but if you enjoy learning more about Jewish history and Judaism you will enjoy these, and if you really want to work on encyclopedia articles I think you will find them invaluable sources/resources. 5897:--but even groups that had more of the right resources in place could not succeed. The nation of Poland had a standing army of its own and more people in it than there were Jews in the entire world, but that did not prevent the Nazis from overwhelming the Polish resistance fighters and instituting a regime that would have killed or enslaved nearly all the Polish people in only a few more years. The real "lambs" were the people in Axis-occupied countries who allowed the atrocities to go on, and the people in other countries who tried to deal with the Axis by appeasement. Sadly, governments that commit human rights violations within their own borders are usually pretty much ignored by the rest of the world, even when they pose a threat elsewhere. -- 5641:

thought about have? In my country, some states have a debate about whether creationism and intelligent design should be taught in science classes alongside evolution. I think the evidence supports the prevailing scientific views about how life and humans originated, rather than the Biblical views. In a class that is supposed to be about science, I do not think it is appropriate to teach creationism, which is not science because the arguments in favor of such a view are not based on the same set of fundamental assumptions on which science is based. Here, we have another instance in which modern scientific scholarship seems to tell a different story from the Tanakh and the inherited tradition. Since the article is

3698:, man. Well, sleep deprivation is my lifestyle too, here in the USA. I'm a bit surprised that Japan is less than optimal for studying computer science, given how technologically oriented the culture is over there. Why do you think that is? Also, have you ever been to the USA? That's perhaps the best country for computer science, and it has a growing community of Syrians and other immigrants. Oddly enough, the U.S. culture has a side of itself that applauds conformity and looks down on people who are too technologically inclined, but the universities are still some of the best in the world because they can get so many foreigners to come. -- 723:

and I'd also like to change "niddah" to describe the Conservative views of this issue. BTW, I haven't gotten around to changing the "Jewish denominations" part of the article yet, but I don't see a compelling reason to put "alternative Judaism" in a separate section. When I get there, please let me know what you think of the changes. Also, do you know if the Gruzinim or other minority groups have any distinctive views or practices worthy of mention in the main Judaism article? I know traditional Kurdish Jews, for example, allowed women to be high-ranking Rabbis even though most other traditional denominations did not. --

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propose I think will kill this article altogether and render it completely confusing. Before getting to specifics, I am wondering--are you intending to edit this page, or are you just making a suggestion on the talk page? Either way, I would be happy to engage you on the specifics of what you are suggesting. The beauty of Knowledge is the collision of perspectives such as this. If you are serious about seeing your idea through and want to put the research together for it, perhaps we can figure out what page it would work best on. I don't think the Israelites page is the right one. I look forward to hearing from you.

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fancy, explain please. I believe the "best" word for each sentence construction/meaning should be used. If you want a first class publication, you use first class words as part of the education process. The notion that Knowledge "reports facts" is an amusing concept....An editor that has actually studied linguistics is not prone to overuse the word "verbiage" and knows that although many words may be used in place, there is usually a "perfect" word that will enhance a sentence or concept without "speculation." For the good of Knowledge, I will stop here. Succinct is best.

2470:, the guy who barmitzvahed me, and a couple of other places to do with his fall out with the United Synagogue owing to his challenging their fundamentalist beliefs over the Torah as divine word. I also got involved a bit in some of the Messainic Judaism articles tryign to get things more NPOV, but I haven't touched those for ages. I'm reconstructing my user page in preparation for an RFA and am going through all my edits to article and article talk space. Once I've finished classifying those, then I should be able to recollect what I've done a lot more easilly.-- 93:

actually think it is somewhat out of place in the Daly City, CA article, but I feel if there is a section talking about the various cultural/religious groups/facilities in the community and you make mention of the facilities in such a section, then they would probably fit better. If you can come up with a section covering other community cultures/religions as well, that would be great-I don't have that information. It might also be worthwhile to make mention of it and all of the other Jewish facilities in the Karaite Judaism article itself.

4729:. It is not customary to use Barnstars for that purpose. However, the article is a biography, and an earlier Talk page comment had mentioned that "This article seems to use various adjectives which allows no room for anything but an extremely negative point of view. Not that he deserves any respect, but it does seem that this article takes every chance it has to deride Zevi, which may decrease its scholarly value." The purpose of my Barnstar was to present a more positive view of the person and give other editors food for thought. -- 3876:"U.S. Policy toward the establishment of Israeli settlements in the occupied territories is unequivocal and has long been a matter of public record. We consider it to be contrary to international law and an impediment to the successful conclusion of the Middle East peace process, Article 49, paragraph 6, of the Fourth Geneva Convention is, in my judgment, and has been in judgment of each of the legal advisors of the State Department for many, many years, to be. . .that are illegal and that applies to the territories.” 3527: 1250:

that the verbiage being insisted on is unnecessary and speculative (and really a bit too flowery for an encyclopedia article, actually) whereas the other editor's opinion is that we should "trade" for which words stay. I have tried to explain that Knowledge is not a speculation newsrag but an encyclopedia that reports facts. IMPO, I think that what's happening here is a need to "win" at all costs rather than looking to the good of the article and Knowledge in general. I am also sending the same request to

3681:, but we're trying to compile a list of successful article collaborations and get a drive for collaborations going over there. For a long time, I'd been thinking that articles about Middle Eastern nature would be obvious candidates since they tend to be freer from political partisanship than articles about human history or culture, and reflect a common concern for the land. Plus, many of the editors in IPCOLL (Israel Palestine Collaboration) speak the languages that the sources are likely to be in. 942: 431: 31: 703:. Take care not to give undue weight to Karaite subjects/opinions/etc. in this article. For two reasons: 1. There are many movements inside Judiasm or connected with it, and we can not give details about all of them. 2. Karaism is not mainstream Judaism, just one of the many movements that were derived from Judiasm in the course of history. Note that although consensus seems to be to mention it now and then, it does not even have a separate section but is mentioned instead under 6016: 2991: 1760: 5785: 5438: 5363: 5291: 5127: 4875: 4316: 1435: 2459:

important to concentrate on getting them to behave in a desirable manner. Even if someone is producing featured articles as a cover for their pushing their Kahanist or pro-Ahmadinejab views elsewhere, we still end up with the featured articles. And, in any case, if people dedicate a good part of their time to producing good quality articles they could well but themselves into the Knowledge project and what it stands for anyway as a way to resolve

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than the Jewish view of what's written in the Torah. Jews essentially believe in modern science when it does not contradict Torah. In regards to the evolutionary theories, Judaism does allow for evolution. I still have a long ways to go in understanding the relationship, but as far as I can tell, where the Torah differs from Darwinism is in regards to a common ancestor. Judaism does not believe that humans came out of the animal realm.

3646:. There is a serious lack of coverage on middle eastern forests (and environment in general). To be honest, I have very little expertise on the subject, but will try to contribute however I can. I grew up in a place that was renowned for its beautiful forests and have seen them burning little by little, it's horrible. It'll be somewhat difficult to find RS on forests in the middle east, the only one I found for Syria dates back to 1947. 1066: 4959: 3262: 1494: 214: 5250: 3463: 4069: 1868: 4796: 3152: 3727:(not geographically, but rather culturally) so I'd feel more at home somewhere in Europe or even South America, than I ever could in the US. I also have great doubts about Computer Science becoming my lifelong career, and have plans already to switch to something different for my masters degree. Let's keep our fingers crossed. What's your main field of research in CS, if you don't mind me asking? 3774:

land, but never incorporating it into their country. For example, the U.S. has occupied Iraq (Iraq is not part of the U.S. by any stretch of the imagination) and Britain occupied Palestine, India and many other places (these lands, not considered British, became subject colonies rather than equal provinces). However, expanding the borders of one's own country is not occupation--in Spain, the

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Israelites, had what you could call "Israelite exclusivist monotheism." It did not evolve over time. In Egypt, people that were not the blood descendants of Jacob's family did join the people, not to mention the fact that family members undoubtably took up the Egyptian religions. However, the core of Israel kept this original monotheism close and untouched, and it is what we have today.

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editors to work on. Al-Azhar Mosque sounds like an interesting article, but I'm not sure what I would be able to contribute at this time. Ottoman Empire articles came to my mind because my own interest in WP Judaism extends into this area. I've been involved with editing some articles which are in both WikiProjects--recently, for example, we had to deal with a vandal and POV pusher on

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Information about this important topic of course belongs in Knowledge, obviously better sourced and more NPOV. I'm concerned the deletionists are throwing out the baby with the bathwater now, just because the focus and sources of the original article were not appropriate. Let's use WP to teach people the truth about the issue so no one writes an article like the original one again. --

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that the version in the back of the standard Talmud contains things he never said, and skips things he did. I think Rav Kapach's own translation of Maimonidies's commentary on the Mishna is the only way to get it. An alternative is the Laws or Repentance in the Mishnah Torah (in Hebrew, and there should be translations), where there is a similar list, with a slightly different purpose.

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people who are quite knowledgeable about a particular subject (world experts more often than one might expect, but also enthusiasts who are just starting to learn about a field), and care enough to bring in their distinctive angle as editors. So, this is quite a unique opportunity to find a little part of the world you wish you could belong to, and add yourself to it. --

3803:. While I agree that prior to the explicit rejection of the legality of acquiring land by conquest it was a fairly common occurrence, yet international law prohibits it currently and a multitude of Courts and countries have rejected that Israel constitutes a special case in this matter. As a serious encyclopaedia we should strive to reflect such consensus. 2807: 4224: 5703:

much ground to cover to tackle both issues, and the deeper point I'm trying to surface needs to be addressed first. So for the time being, I'd like to concentrate on the first paragraph you've written here, and once we've reached some common ground (which may take a while) we'll tackle the second one. I hope that's okay.

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Jew, I'm interested in drawing more broadly and deeply from our history to make the case that Judaism is valuable and compelling, and some of our so-called heretics were quite colorful people with many interesting ideas. I got involved with ancient Israelite idolatry because of the problems I had with the new article

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in which Israel had the status of occupying Power. Subsequent events in these territories, as described in paragraphs 75 to 77 above, have done nothing to alter this situation. All these territories (including East Jerusalem) remain occupied territories and Israel has continued to have the status of occupying Power.

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open-minded adult. In short, I've been down the strictly secular path before, understand the perspective, and unfortunately (or fortunately) have discovered many completely obvious things that this community has looked past. As a result, we have a chasm between secular and religious thought pertaining to Judaism.

5952:. There are still some more things I would like to add, but the article is now getting full, with its own category as well, and I changed it's name to fit with its mission and purpose. Your heart is in the right place with this! I sense your idealism and pride and it's encouraging me believe it or not. Take care, 5645:

the ancient Israelite beliefs, of course the viewpoints of the modern traditions that inherited from the ancient Israelite tradition (Jewish, Samaritan, and possibly even Christian and Islamic) should be described. The findings from the archaeological scholarship about ancient Israel also belongs in

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What I've said here is backed up by at least 100,000 pages of writings stretching back 2500+ years, and is in line with the teachings of every single Jewish sage. Writing about Judaism from a "historical perspective" without consulting the source is why we have a blurry haze in regards to the public

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You're probably wondering what the heck I'm talking about. From what I'm guessing, I think I'm taking an internal approach to Judaic research while you are taking an external approach. If I'm correct, this is a gap that desperately needs to be bridged. Let me give you an example. On the discussion

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Dera AFriendman, I hope this finds you well. I am sorry to bother you but it appear someone is attempting to start an edit war on the "Margaret Clark" page and I would like your always gracious and objective help. Please see notes on article talk page. Thank you for all your help in the past. I have

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78. The territories situated between the Green Line (see paragraph 72 above) and the former eastern boundary of Palestine under the Mandate were occupied by Israel in 1967 during the armed conflict between Israel and Jordan. Under customary international law, these were therefore occupied territories

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and I think that ipcoll would be ideal in hashing it out and seeing what the major points of disagreement,if any, are. I have the start of a discussion on my talk page but it is probably better to have it 'out in the open' so to speak rather than having it repeatedly. I look forwards to your thoughts

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Japan is fantastic, exhausting and utterly extreme. It's not an easy place to live in, and yes, sleep deprivation may become a lifestyle, but the experience is certainly fulfilling. Although, I'll have to admit, there might better places that I could've chosen (from a strictly academic point of view)

3173:. Note that content disputes are not vandalism, and that good-faith edits of any kind, even if you think them misguided, are not to be considered vandalism. Vandalism accusations without any basis in policy are bad for the climate on the wiki and make constructive discussion more difficult. See also 3121:

Also, I'm curious what you want to edit about. In my experience, the greatest reward of editing Knowledge is to realize how much you have in common with someone, often from a very different part of the world, that you would have no other way of knowing about. The people who edit articles tend to be

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Interesting point, that non-battleground editing encourages editors to see one another in a more positive light. However, given Knowledge's size I think it's unlikely that opponents in IPCOLL will run into another on other areas of the encyclopedia while they're still getting an impression about the

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Thank you so much for your addition to my talk page. You have NO idea how timely it was and how much it helped my mood! While I imagine from your Knowledge interests that I probably should have sent you a Happy Hanukkah message over a week ago, this is the best I can come up with at the spur of the

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I really thank you for helping me on the page donmeh west. Also that is great you also interested in biology and science. I am an actvie member of science club of my university that works on evolution and astonomy and wants to publish a magazine about sccience. I am looking for further information on

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I am glad you have had some time to spend in NW Washington - it is, most certainly, one of the most beautiful places on earth, IMO. I've travelled all over the world and have lived away from here for a number of years, but have never found another place (other than Israel) that I would want to spend

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the article is most definitely notable per current guidelines. However, I thought it was imperative that it be made clear to Joy that those sources in your post need to be incorporated into the article in a reasonable amount of time to show notability as the article currently looks as if it is a list

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I was wondering if you agreed with my informal conclusion regarding the notability of the Margaret Clark article. Since the two editors involved have had a long standing issue of claiming each other harrasses the other; I tried to be as neutral and fair to both. Given the sources you came up with for

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Well, Dimont was one of the first books I read on the topic and I enjoyed it immensely. Cecil Roth has a short one volume history of the Jews which is very good (again, he is a professional historian) but no doubt drier than Dimont. I think what really bothers me about Dimont is he starts with this

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Hi, I admire your desire to improve the Judaism article and Judaism related pages. I personally have no time to work on them. But I do have some knowledge of the topic and can recommend to you good sources. For Jewish history, the three books I mentioned really are very good - I mean, they meet our

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and has spent decades in its study, these rules are so complex that they cannot be given true justice in an article. In my opinion, for whatever it is worth, we can work on the basic outlines, but need to recognize that it is beyond the capabilities of wikipedia to give detailed halakhic guidance. --

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While I understand that there is material you want to salvage, please don't revert, extract and readd it manually. You simply are not allowed to restore copyrighted material, even for temporary editing purposes. A pain, I know, but that's the way it works. Unless permission is provided, that material

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of yours whereby you managed to notice and pick out and magnify the information on that sad Star of David tombstone from Normandy. I missed that detail, but I picked out the image because I thought it was more impressive than the previous one. The truth is Knowledge's articles are so well researched

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actually do join the right-wing Christians in their support for the teaching of intelligent design. I don't claim to completely understand the Jewish view of Judaism's origins, and how it may differ from the view of other religions and of archaeologists. But it is certainly worth mentioning in the

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Hi Accipio. I'm aware that there are differences between the Christian and Jewish views of creationism--but as I mentioned, Christianity also claims to be descended from the ancient Israelite religion. That claim, and its validity, is a separate discussion topic. Re: creationism, I think we agree

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If I may chime in, an interesting point about Maimonidies' principles themselves is that if is hard to find them exactly, unless you know Arabic. The famous Ani Ma'amin is just a paraphrase, like the poem Yigdal. Rav Kapach, the famous Yemenite Rabbinical judge and translator from Arabic, points out

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deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Knowledge's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the page

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Dear AFriedman, thanks for the dove! It was very tasty, although I like your favorite food better. PS why are you on wikipdia instead of asleep? I guess you could say the same thing to me...I am about to go to sleep (and plan to be good and not spend too much time on wikipedia this week, I have so

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Those sound like nice, interesting topics. Hard to believe that the article about the orchestra would be controversial--but then again, hard to believe that the article about falafel would be controversial. Anyway, some pointers to our favorite articles and our favorite subjects in WP:IPCOLL might

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and would bring about an apocalypse in 1666--and IMO, his failure to live up to these expectations gave him a negative image in Jewish history that he does not deserve. I think about him a lot because IMO Progressive Judaism would be able to gain historical depth, intellectual weight and a sense of

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expressed on his Userpage. Our opponents losing their temper isn't an excuse for us to lose ours, either. We can talk to them calmly and rationally and try to explain to them what is really going on in WP. IMO that's the approach I would favor in trying to resolving cognitive dissonance, since it

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On that note, I would still recommend Dimont as a first Jewish history book for people who don't have a full appreciation of the subject. Dimont's book is what got me interested in Jewish history in the first place. Jewish apathy and assimilation are major problems and given that it's so important

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Hey, WikiProject tag or no tag does not mean that article is not important - they are there just for maintenance purposes. I removed the tag because I do not feel that an article about religion is within the scope of Lithuanian WikiProject (ie. it is not "our" responsibility to keep the article nice

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Back to ancient Israelite idolatry. This seems to have been quite prevalent, and was at the very least the practice of a significant minority if not the majority. A description of the religion of a country's inhabitants should not only mention the majority, prevailing view, but should account for

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I'm very busy and had been thinking about sticking to the Talk page re: this issue. Most of my work in WP Judaism and WP Jewish history is on articles about the practice of Judaism from the Middle Ages onward, and especially on improving the NPOV coverage of so-called Jewish heresies. As a modern

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Thank you for chiming in on the Israelite discussion page. Please don't take this the wrong way, but it seems to me that you are very new to this subject. This is a complicated page and it has taken years for it to get to this point. It still has a long way to go. However, pursuing the path you

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conquered Moorish Spain, but I would not use the word "occupation" for what they did, nor for what the Moors did when they were the conquerors. Incorporating land into a multinational empire is also not occupation--the Roman Empire and the Ottoman Empire may have conquered Israel-Palestine against

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Hi Unomi, I think you're right about bringing the "occupied" issue to IPCOLL. It seems to be the right place. I'll tell you what I personally think about the term "occupied," which I suspect many people will disagree with. As I define it, occupied means that a country captured and is controlling

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I will try my best to see what contributions I can make to the project. Being so very far away, tracking sources and official documentation will be hell. But, alas. I will regretfully decline your other invitation per different reasons. I doubt there is much I can contribute on the issue. Knowledge

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for the very kind words and gesture. I have seen some of your comments on talk pages around town and have wanted to tell you how impressed I am by your ability to rise above the conflict raging all around. Its a pleasure to encounter such an evenly tempered individual around here who has insightful

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Thanks for your note. I am busy too--although I've definitely got less work over the next week or so. I think you're being too hard on yourself for speculating that the Category deletion proposal was motivated by antisemitism. I was speculating the same thing, actually. Even though I think it's

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Thanks for your lovely notes. Happy editing in the New Year! Joy, sorry to hear that you were sick, and VERY glad that you are better :). My brother had swine flu as well and he didn't feel well for a while. I'm planning on going over to try and get the swine flu shot soon (got the seasonal flu

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I am fine with the new tag on the Margaret Clark article, however, I think it would have been a good idea for you to make note of the change on the article's talk page - as well as your reasoning behind it. There has been an issue of the tag being removed before the notability of the *article* was

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Fair enough. In general, I've been trying to mention mainstream opinions as such, accounting for the specific mainstream movement and allowing for a couple of conspicuous dissenting views per issue. For example, I think the Karaite views of tum'ah are noteworthy given their importance to Karaism,

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leading historians for each era about which they write. The book edited by Ben Sasson goes into more detail and also is more up to date. Between the two books you would have a very solid grasp of what professional historians believe about different eras of Jewish history. The Schwartz volume was

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The first and foremost thing to clarify is that Judaism is NOT Christianity. This is a mistake that virtually all secular Jews make. In America, we have outspoken right-wing Christians dominating the religious debate. However, the Christian view of "Creationism" seems to be completely different

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Thanks for the prompt response. Let's back up a second here. For the time being, I'd like to see if we can get on the same page in terms of how Judaism and Jewish beliefs are being represented on Knowledge and educational mediums, and then perhaps get back to the Israelites discussion. It's too

3871:. My personal opinions are not the deciding factor, all I can tell you is that from my reading of sources the consensus opinion of the world and its courts are that Israel is occupying a number of territories and are engaging in activities that are contrary to its obligations as an occupying power. 3377:

I have another question. I'm having a bit of trouble finding good sources about the history of Maimonides' 13 principles of faith, the criticism of it and other people's formulations of the basic Jewish principles of faith. See the "citation needed" tags I've added to the "Religious doctrine and

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Good morning. If you could take the time, I would like some input on some verbiage that is being discussed at the talk page of the Margaret Clark article. If you are willing to do this, please take the time to review the current back and forth under the section "vocabulary". It is my contention

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To me, it seemed out of place in the external links section. That section has links that deal with the whole community while the Judaism link seems to focus on a very small portion of the community. In a small town article like Hedgesville, it seems more like a significant part of the community. I

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Thanks for the compliment :). Very nice work yourself, it's an important article and most of the text and images were your doing. I've nominated the article for the main page. My grandfather was a Jewish American officer in WWII, BTW, and I'm very proud of him and his service. He was eager to

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that about 550,000 Jewish Americans served in the US military during World War II (the most Jews serving in any military in the war), something that is not known by many. Only one country, the Soviet Union had a similar number, about 500,000 Jews serving in the Red Army against Hitler, that shows

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In regards to your point about Creationism/Evolution, I am an American and I know all about that issue. I'd also like to mention that I come from a Reform Jewish and extremely secular academic background, and everything I am going to bring up here comes from research I've done as an independent,

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You are totally wrong about "most places except large cities have the country/district name in the title". With the exception of American and Australian settlement populated places generally are singular on wikipedia unless they have multiple places under that name which makes it necessary to dab

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Unomi, where are sources for the international prohibition against acquiring land by conquest? It seems like a difficult prohibition to create, since there are so many unjust governments whose people would benefit from conquest by certain foreign powers. Furthermore, how would international law

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Thank you for the apology. I had been feeling very badly about the attempt to discredit me. Also, thank you for sharing the Purim joke. BTW, Happy Passover! Wishing you as good a Passover as these guys to the right had. There's nothing like crossing the boundaries between heaven and earth to

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Thanks and good luck on RFA. Rather than encouraging people to edit more broadly, perhaps we could encourage proper behavior on the articles they're already editing. For example, IMO we need to treat our opponents in wiki-disputes with respect and wikilove. Users who lose their temper at their

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Thanks for your kind words. I see what you're getting at about my suggesting to people to edit mnore broadly. I suppose I am showing the indoctination during my professional training into behavioural social work. In that we were taught that rather than focussing on people's motivations it is more

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be written in this kind of encyclopedia. However, the ancient Israelites are relatively unique in that their perspective has been continually preserved and accepted into the present day (and I am an heir to their views). What perspectives, then, should educational materials about subjects they

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This isn't what Judaism says, however. According to Judaism, monotheism started with Adam and Eve and continued with many of their descendants. The Jewish monotheistic view continues at least from the time of Abraham completely untouched, which means that Jacob's descendants, i.e. the original

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Sorry. I'd been thinking about that, but I'm concerned that the contributions would appear as "userspace" contributions instead of "article" contributions in "edit count." There are ramifications to this, in terms of how "editing experience" is evaluated. I've recently realized that I've been

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While I appreciate that you are attempting to "keep the peace", I have to tell you that the latest message you left on my talk page sounded as if you were talking to a child and was quite offensive to me. I know you didn't mean it that way, however, I'm old enough to be a grandmother and really

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You're welcome. Regardless of the outcome, I felt your effort should have counted for much more. I wrote what I thought on the Controversies page--that you worked so hard to fell the tree in the forest that nobody heard, and IMO it was everyone else's mistake not to make more of what you did.

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In any case, I understand why you can't go by religion alone, which again, Judaism is not looking for you to do. But let's at least first understand what Judaism has to say before writing about it. Taking a purely archeological perspective on Judaism without being thoroughly familiar with the

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Aside from IPCOLL, I guess most of the editors involved have very different interests. Also, I've noticed that the most contentious editors aren't usually in IPCOLL anyway. I still think it might be good to add a list of "neutral" articles to IPCOLL for the IPCOLL people to invite contentious

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Good morning! Ditto on most of above. "Compromise," I thought was a good idea. "flowery" "newsrag", may be a new oxymoron. "Winning" does seem to be a major issue as it has been in the past, by simply "wearing people down," ( not my words) . "IMPO" root word imp, has me mystified and prone to

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I like your experiment in mediation, and how you stepped in with authority and humor on that page. BTW, I think that between the two of us, we've made the discussion less hostile. The discussion seems to be reaching consensus in favor of "keep" and I was very happy to see Skagit River Queen's

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AFriedman. I am trying as much as possible to avoid IP topics, but I couldn't not chime in here. Israel's dilemma is more than just the legal one (which is well documented, even on Knowledge). Israel claims the territory to itself, but it wants its people out. It's almost worse than a typical

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when it was being evaluated, and congratulations about getting it to the front page. I've given it a template and some links to articles about forests in neighboring countries. In general, Knowledge doesn't seem to have very thorough or organized coverage of forests in the Middle East. For

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Much as I object to your general pattern of removing information from articles in violation of NPOV, I think you're right that the particular edit I reverted (which I still consider problematic, on the grounds of it being POV pushing) was not the same as vandalism. I'll be more careful about

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One thing I suggested and got no further was a tailored welcome message to Knowledge for people first spotted in the IP area. Going through my history I've spotted the following as impromptu greetings I've given. Are you interested in helping concoct something more thought out (and with fewer

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So anyway--between what you've written here, what's on your personal page, and what you've contributed to the Israelites' discussion page, my first reaction is--eye caramba! Wow. It seems we have very similar goals, but are coming from different hemispheres. In any case, there is a huge

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The culture is technologically oriented, and it is somewhat innovative in certain areas, but not on the whole. I have considered the US, but never really seriously for both cultural and personal reasons. Japan is a temporary lapse of reason, really. Because I feel strongly attached to the

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is my happy little place where I learn about, and enjoy the things that I write, IP issues will not provide that luxury, and my off-Knowledge life provides me with just the right dose of cynicism, politics and debating that I'm more than happy to pass on any opportunity that comes up here.

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Okay, I'm back. First I'd like to give you a warm hello, tell you that I love what you have set out to do, and that I am thrilled to have met you. Whatever you do, don't take any of my challenges personally, and know that I understand that we are partners in bringing down knowledge and

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Okay, I thought that you'd intended to post that on a user's talk page and accidentally placed it there instead. The relevance is unclear to me, and I'm fairly certain that an addition of that nature would be rejected, but feel free to initiate a discussion on the policy's talk page.

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Hi. I'm not sure if I'm doing this correctly. I love the pork pie -- not for it's savory ingredients, but for its even-more savory sentiment; and (although touched by that sentiment) I'm afraid I must decline to eat it, not because it's traif, but because I'm a vegetarian. Yalhak

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page, you stated that "Israelite exclusivist monotheism evolved over time." To me, this sounds like a conclusion that a non-Jewish researcher would reach, all the while disregarding what is written in authentic Jewish texts over the last 2500 years. I see a lot of this going on.

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to maintain people's interest in the subject, I think we should direct people who don't know about the subject to the most engaging introduction to Jewish history that is reasonably accurate. But that's a separate issue from what sources a WP editor should use for articles. --

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I want to thank you for your offer of help, the truth is that I need a lot, because do not know much about how you work in Knowledge, but anyway I do not know how long I can devote to editing Knowledge, because the truth is that I'm very busy, but if I need your help, I'll

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I appreciate your making book recommendations. At present, I am unable to go to the library or buy new books. I'm mostly limited to what's on the internet. However, I have access to a major University library and will have more time to look at these and other books this

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Thanks for the Dickens link. I will look at it more closely later on this evening when I have time after the "festivities" have died down. And, BTW, I did see your note, but it was bad form for me to not reply. I appreciated it at the time, and still do. Thanks again.

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other editor. One possibility is to invite IPCOLL users to edit in specific non-controversial areas. Perhaps we could stake out non-controversial "training" territory about other subjects where IPCOLL users can cool down? For example, I wonder if some articles in

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don't need to be addressed in such a manner - it was, frankly, quite unneccessary. As long as the other editor keeps things civil and continues on the path she is, I don't see any reason why the atmosphere will change from what it is currently. Have a good week. --

3284:. Under the specified criteria, where an article has substantially identical content to that of an article deleted after debate, and any changes in the content do not address the reasons for which the material was previously deleted, it may be deleted at any time. 5635:

Hi Accipio. I think you make some good points. I am definitely approaching the writing of this section from a secularist angle, based on what I've read about the archaeological findings. For most ancient civilizations, that is how the history of their religion

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Hi! Thanks for the welcome-back. I do like your nick, "purification through transgression" (why wouldn't I?), except that you've cleaned up the traditional wording ("redemption through sin") to make it politically correct and inoffensive to post-modern ears. :-)

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HI Sweetie, I need your expertise on the Laura Schlessinger page. Read the posts, it is self explanatory but it needs a Jewish Princess' eye ;-) It seems very clear to me, but I bow to your knowledge. I miss our chats, how ya doing busy girl? Fondly, Your Joy

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established using the references you provided (and any others that can be provided establishing notability within the article) and I have been using the talk page to discuss this issue. It would have been appropriate for you to do the same, don't you think? --

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there was a strong fighting spirit among Jews who lived in countries that welcomed them as fighters and that Jews did not go like "lambs to the slaughter" but where they were able they fought and WON! The Jewish historian Solomon Grayzel also notes this in his

2593:. If it's not clear from IPCOLL how this arose, it may be worth asking them how it did and moving continuing discusion to the project. Of course, you need to be able to find people with shared interests. I wouldn't have been at all interested in that subject.-- 4098:

I LOVE your new userpage! Surely you have more awards than shown tho! Yes, the SoCal cities are keeping me hopping with all the scandals and misinformation, and I just was interesting in the history LOL Oh well. Soon to be Rosh Hashana, Happy Happy to you.

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I'll have a think about this before I pick up my next new user. I'm sure I have seen others (admins?) encouraging editors in conflict areas to edit more broadly. I could cut out the "it helps you look good" but and focus on the "it's less frustrating"

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Thanks for the barnstar. I'm not sure it was richly deserved as Noleander had already uncovered some of the same references and the sources didn't make a blind bit of difference to the outcome! I may work on a better replacement in my userspace.

3622:? I just did. Also, how is Japan? What is it like? I'm sure it's very different from Syria, although I haven't been to either. BTW, I'm a computer science student too! I used to study Biology and so I know a fair amount about forests. -- 495:

Thanks :) It's a bit harder to find sources about purity and male-female interactions than it was for Kashrut, plus I don't know as much about the subject. In full disclosure, I was raised Conservative Jewish. Do you know of any good ones?

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significant minorities--and information about the majority culture's views of these minorities (up to and including whether the minorities were outlawed). For example, 16th-century Spain was a Catholic country that forbade the observance of

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I guess you're right. I'm in the U.S.A. and was mostly looking at U.S. cities for precedent. Looking over the cities, I also see Canadian cities and towns as being listed by province BTW, even ones that seem to have more unusual names like

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of non-notable positions the mayor has held. This is the first time I've done any form of informal mediation and hope the outcome ends up being happy to both parties. PS- I'm glad you found those sources to clear up the matter, thank you!

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fight against the Axis and tried hard at every possible opportunity. Even after the war, he spent his life as a U.S. army engineer. Of course the Jews were going to resist the Axis in every way they felt they could, including the

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and hopefully this note has made your day a little better. Spread the WikiLove by wishing another user a Happy Purim, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past, a good friend, or just some random person.

415:. I am in the process of tagging Lithuania-related articles because I want to get a good list of all articles within the scope. However, after 400+ tags my brains turned into a slushy & feel free to disagree - it's a wiki! :) 3897:

The assertion made by the Israeli authorities that products manufactured in the occupied territories qualify for the preferential treatment granted for Israeli goods is not binding upon the customs authorities of the European

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standards for reliability and significance. Dimont was a popularizer, and a good one, but still he was not a professional historian and much of what he wrote is dated and limited. I highly recommend you read Leo Schwartz's

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Also, in regards to my Wiki name--it's actually tongue-and-cheek, although I suppose it's meant to intrigue. It's a latin phrase that I came up with that rolls off the tongue, but doesn't really have any deep meaning.

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example, I couldn't get a good general picture of what forests were in Turkey or Iraq, and coverage of specific forests was decent to good in places but didn't seem very well coordinated. Have you thought of joining

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redeem the whole world from sin, or watching your friend do said thing :). May you have a nice Seder as well. I also hope you set up a Knowledge account soon, so that my alter ego AFriedman can welcome you here. --

3598:. My name is Yazan, and I wanted to welcome you at the project. Any contribution will be welcome, as we are a bit short on active keyboards. I'm looking forward to working together, and welcome again. Happy Editing. 1889:

and hopefully this one has made your day happier. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a dove, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past (this fits perfectly) or a good friend. Cheers!

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Thanks so much for the barnstar. I've got to say, you are one of the most consistently nice people I have ever encountered in Knowledge and are definitely a credit to Knowledge editors. Thanks for making my day.

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spending more time talking about articles than editing them, with not very much getting done on the "Judaism" front. Maybe I'll click on "Preview" or make fewer edits at a time, if you really mind how I'm editing.

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Thanks! I also saw you joined WikiProject Forestry and very nice. Welcome to the WikiProject. It was very sad to hear about those forests--I know some of the same is happening in places like the U.S. state of

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No, unfortunately, I would like it very much if someone had information about the various cultural/religious group/attractions -especially in my area, as I am curious. I'll let you know if I do find out though.

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I was actually trying to illustrate an example of "ignore all rules." If it's confusing or if you'd like the page to look more minimalist and serious, no problem. It was a fairly audacious edit on my part.

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and hopefully this one has made your day better. Spread the WikiLove by giving someone else a bubble tea, whether it be someone you have had disagreements with in the past or a good friend. Happy drinking!

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but one has to spend time looking over them to find the right parts that will fit into this new important topic. I have just concluded adding new stuff relating to the key Jewish role in developing the

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Please open the discussion about your proposed merge or remove the templates. It's not about fire and forget. YOu also might want to draw more attention to it by posting on the Israel wikiproject. --

4483:. Please contribute and hopefully you can clarify what is going on before this matter takes a more drastic turn. Thank you for your cooperation and looking forward to your participation. Sincerely, 5586:

I just wanted to let you know that I'm not ignoring you, but I initially didn't see this response and now I'm just waiting for a few free moments to give a thoughtful response. Talk to you then.

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I'd like to get into some specific examples here, as well as some of the reasons as to why this chasm exists, although for now I do have to get going. Looking forward to hearing your response.

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that the mainstream religious Jewish view is not the same as the mainstream Darwinist view, even if it may also be different from the Christian perspective. BTW, some Jewish groups such as

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the article. Because of NPOV, I think it's important to scrupulously mention which tradition says what, and why, so that the reader of the article can come to his or her own conclusions.

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article to the more topic-specific article. BTW, did you know that the information in new articles less than a week old, or articles expanded less than a week ago, can be nominated for

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Before you edit further on that (as I'd like not to cause an edit war) could you please check out the evidence on Slrubenstein's talk page. You'll find all the evidence you need there.

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Your user page is now officially outlandishly awesome! I know you are a student,but I didn't realize you were a professional one! :-) My Babushka would be so proud! xoxoxo Namaste...

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occupation. If it's not occupation then the residents of the West Bank (Judea and Samaria, whatever you want to call it) should be offered Israeli citizenship, I would think. No?

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I'm pretty sure there is stuff in the IPCOLL talk history related to cooperating on some material. The article on which Nableezy, IronDuke and others co-operated on for a DYK was

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Your edits to the Nidah section have proven catalitic, and I have made some improvements on them. That seems to be my style of editing. Let's keep up the good work together.

229:, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions will be deleted. You may use external websites as a source of 3999:

I heard that you may have given a short talk on similar ideas. Do you know if there is a video available of that talk? Do you have any thoughts/comments about these things?

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and to my surprise I found a notice of "This category is being considered for deletion”. It would be very important to have you join the category and simultaneously talk on

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I added the talk page rationale as soon as I changed the template. Did you know that under "Preferences," you can go to the tab called "Gadgets" and request a tool called

2082:. It's an attractive and useful project, which does encourage people to create new articles or improve stubs to an acceptable standard. I don't use it as much as I should. 2944:

and add any insight? Also, you mentioned incorporating a "History of criticism of Judaism" section. Can you recommend any sources for that specific topic? Thanks. --

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unless you're sure they have committed it. In particular, avoid using the word in edit summaries (such as "reverting vandalism"), and be very careful about posting

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Just noticed this. I'm having a bit of trouble with my laptop. So shall not be available until a couple of weeks' time. But feel free to start a thread at IPCOLL.--

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have the word "Wikipedian" in it. So they have to be renamed to something like "Reform Jewish Wikipedians" and "Consevative Jewish Wikipedians", and then added to

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perception of Judaism. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if 90% of JEWS don't even know what Jews believe. Hopefully we can find a way out of this. Thoughts.

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This correspondence was resolved by my creating new sections "Religious life"/"Cultural life" in the articles about the places in question, and organizing the

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La comadreja accept newcomers with open arms, exhibiting endless reserves of patience and kindness, and helping Knowledge become a better place. Thank you!

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Thank you also for your words in my defense. For my part I think I was wrong in to use the word "antisemitism", and I apologized to BrownHairedGirl for it.

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latest post. I also think S.R.Q. has a very cool Username because I love the Pacific Northwest and it's hard to make a Username with as much local flavor.

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comments to add to add discussions. I hope we get a chance to edit together more in the future. Thank you for allowing me to touch and be touched by you.

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Also, I think that leaving a pretty IPCOLL-related image on people's talk pages when they join IPCOLL might make them more excited about the project. --

2079: 1956: 1910: 1878: 1853: 1838: 1694: 1680: 1339: 1169: 6107: 5859: 2479: 2409: 411:& clean). Say, Christianity is very important to Lithuania too - something like 80% of population is Christian, but I do not slap WP:LITH banner on 5237: 5184: 3579: 3180: 2759: 2712: 2658: 2594: 2544: 2487: 2471: 2444: 2422: 2401: 778: 4717: 4703: 4163: 2746: 2689: 2649: 2583: 2452: 2430: 2785: 962: 955: 672: 658: 444: 6122: 5936: 4410: 4390:

Anyway, are you on FB? If so, friend me there as "Yakov-Leib HaKohain" and you can fill me in on what you've been up to since we last corresponded.

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Obviously, I didn't mean to be offensive and I apologize that this was how it made you feel. I'll try not to do things this way in the future. --

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Thanks for your kind words and the Userbox! I love the idea of the Kindness Campaign, which I didn't know about before, and I've just joined. --

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Thanks. Where can I find good rabbinic literature like the Shulchan Oruch online, either in the original or in translation? That might help. --

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Just popped over to say hello and TY again for all your help during the hard times. I am finally getting true enjoyment out of editing! Shalom!

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Thanks for letting me know. I actually think deletion is justified for this Category, and have commented on this at the deletion discussion. --

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targetted at a popular audience, and Ben Sasson's book for college students, so both are accessible. Not as entertaining as Dimont, but really,

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has also written a few articles about the environment and environmentalism in Turkey, BTW. Also, I don't know if you're interested in joining

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is a human rights activist and former Iranian political prisoner and if you agree with the side I've taken, you may want to leave a message on

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and other historical Jewish movements that the Orthodox chose to dismiss as heresies. But I digress from IPCOLL. What are your thoughts? --

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Thanks! The dove really made me happy. I agree that peace is important. Have you ever had a bubble tea in real life? It's quite good. --

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I have recently posted some thoughts on ways that I believe we can (and MUST!) improve the technical educational materials on WikiVersity.

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Seems like only yesterday it was 2009 ... I do support your edits for Judaism in accord with what I wrote on the talk page, to be sure!

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Thanks so much for your holiday wishes! I do celebrate Hanukkah, but Christmas is an awesome holiday too. Nobody argues that better than

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What "neutral" subjects would interest you? That's what I'm trying to get at. The list wouldn't just be about my favorite subjects. --

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to study computer science, Japan does offer an overall brilliant experience. You did catch me on a high though, I just came back from

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confusion surrounding your user names and their histories that are also connected to a blocked puppeteer. Before taking this case to

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Dear AFriedman, I love you!! And I do like many of your edits. But, I thought you are doing your work now? I should be too... Love,

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them according to area. Please do not move articles which do not have any others under that name again like you did with Tanzania.♦

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Rgardin your post on yalhak's page. Yes he is leader of donmeh west. And John Freely is a professour at my university.:) Take care--

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which is being chopped up by suburban development. I agree that there's a lack of coverage about the Middle Eastern environment.

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Ditto to everything SRQ so eloquently said. I have been out of commission with 3 weeks ( so far) of the swine flu. Get your shot!

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Thanks. You did a very good job. Can't think of any articles at the moment, but some more articles might need to be created. --

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One of the advantages of non-battleground editing is that you get the chance to see some editors in more positive contexts. I and

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based on your article. Please add to the category if you find or know of any other articles that can be put into it. Sincerely,

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Hi La comadreja: this is Annie Lin, the Campus Team Coordinator at the Wikimedia Foundation. Thanks for adding your name to the

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Thank you for the falafel, it was delicious :) I am hoping that we can take ipcoll into use, I would like to explore the term

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