828:(figuring that a link would be better than trying to explain such a contentious word in one clause). As I understand the history, Felsenstein's innovations predate common usage of the word Regietheater (though they do overlap a bit in the early 1970s). By any name, his production values do not suppress or undermine the importance of the music. In a lecture delivered in 1963, for example, Felsenstein declares that "the heart of music theater is to turn music-making and singing on the stage into a communication that is convincing, truthful, and utterly essential. All problems of the drama and of staging are secondary to this."* It would be hard to reconcile this statement with the given definition of Regietheater. Also, Friedrich and Kupfer (more demonstrable proponents of Regietheater) do not so much develop Felsenstein's work as incorporate his ideas into their own (thus "source of inspiration" rather than "exponent").
672:(figuring that a link would be better than trying to explain such a contentious word in one clause). As I understand the history, Felsenstein's innovations predate common usage of the word Regietheater (though they do overlap a bit in the early 1970s). By any name, his production values do not suppress or undermine the importance of the music. In a lecture delivered in 1963, for example, Felsenstein declares that "the heart of music theater is to turn music-making and singing on the stage into a communication that is convincing, truthful, and utterly essential. All problems of the drama and of staging are secondary to this."* It would be hard to reconcile this statement with the given definition of Regietheater. Also, Friedrich and Kupfer (more demonstrable proponents of Regietheater) do not so much develop Felsenstein's work as incorporate his ideas into their own (thus "source of inspiration" rather than "exponent").
643:
that as far as this argument of yea or nea..... I totally agree with Andy
Mabbett there is, still, clearly no consensus on this issue. The claim on the project page is bogus. On top of that, Jules Garcin was a violinist/conductor (first and foremost), and there are still many infoboxes on existing "historic" violinists articles. I have created the article on Jules Garcin, I feel it provides the look of a real Encyclopedia (with an info box). Many find that informative info boxes add rather than detract .
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1151:? IMO it's fine to include information from a blog and probably best to put in 'External links'. As a blog is subject to change, it's a good idea to give an access date (as with any website). If you want to note some specific information from the blog in connection with your main text, I think it's perfectly OK to make an inline citation - again making it clear that it is a blog and the date you accessed it. So no problems I think. Best of luck. --
1174:
will follow up in future and get more important information "on the record." I gather my subject is active commissioning new works to be premiered in the near future, and given the people involved, it's a unusual situation - I'm confident these events will be interesting to posterity, just as I'm confident Cahill is more than notable enough for a BLP. Thanks again for your help!
1715:. I see no reason why we have to lump in the incidental music with the operas proper. Rameau is one of the composers I've done the most work on and I plan to do more in the new year. I don't want to see my efforts undermined for the sake of technical gadgetry. I don't see that there is anything more to discuss. --
204:
I guess you're right about the stubs being a waste of time for the reader -- I did not think of that. The only references I could find for the compositions were record jackets of CDs, which doesn't amount to much, so I can't expand the articles. Yes, it would be better to merge the articles into one.
889:
Written by a former dramaturg at the
Komische Oper, the article addresses the relationship between Felsenstein and Regietheater: "Walter Felsenstein fühlte sich nicht als Erfinder eines "Regietheaters", in dem der Regisseur machen kann, was er will. Felsenstein wollte der Sachwalter von dramatischen
733:
Written by a former dramaturg at the
Komische Oper, the article addresses the relationship between Felsenstein and Regietheater: "Walter Felsenstein fühlte sich nicht als Erfinder eines "Regietheaters", in dem der Regisseur machen kann, was er will. Felsenstein wollte der Sachwalter von dramatischen
1127:
I wouldn't ask this if I didn't think this material is of interest to the public, the academics, and to posterity. Should I just mention it in
External Links? Should I mention the topics of discussion found there? Must I wait for a journalist to ask these questions on behalf of a publication before
642:
I Support info boxes. I truly believe that infoboxes, in addition to the lead paragraph, are valuable and useful for people not familiar with the subject. They can glance at the infobox, read the lead, and decide for themselves whether the rest of the article is worth reading or not. It seems to me
464:
I've left this page on the list of music projects needing immediate attention a few weeks ago, but nothing seemed to happen. Could you resolve a content dispute on this page. Subject of article wrote a page about himself, and he seems to be notable so I haven't proposed deletion, but we can't agree
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He originally posted the article about himself in a self-promotional manner. I responded by cutting some of the most promotional phrases and shortening or removing the lists of what he's achieved. He then said I'd cut the article too much, so I said I'd mark it for the attention of the
Wikiproject
1224:
I'm sorry but I really don't think this is a good idea. In any case there are seldom any responses to that placeholder message. Why not write directly to Sarah Cahill directly? I'm sure she will delighted to hear that you re working on her WP page and I'd very surprised if she didn't give you some
1173:
Yes, it is. Excellent, I can do that, I've done inline citations before. Good to know I can do this esp. if there's something not found elsewhere. Already, looking for sourced information I came across early versions of this very BLP duplicated entirely (NationMaster.com) ! I can hope that someone
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I'd still rather keep those separate from the operas proper. It's an important distinction. I'd also keep the complete list of works on the Rameau biography page. It simply doesn't make sense to list his harpsichord pieces, cantatas etc. there and force casual readers to click on the link if they
827:
I'm new to editing
Knowledge, so please forgive me if I'm not resolving a question/edit in the appropriate fashion. A few days ago, I edited the entry on Walter Felsenstein. I changed "exponent of Regietheater" to "source of inspiration for Regietheater," and deleted the explanation of the term
671:
I'm new to editing
Knowledge, so please forgive me if I'm not resolving a question/edit in the appropriate fashion. A few days ago, I edited the entry on Walter Felsenstein. I changed "exponent of Regietheater" to "source of inspiration for Regietheater," and deleted the explanation of the term
1456:
Okay, I'll avoid the AfD option for now. I don't have time to give an account to WikiProject
Classical music right now, so feel free to proceed without me. (I might act this evening otherwise.) I'd prefer it if I kept out of this as much as possible, as I was only acting in new page patrolling
231:
Thanks, I have made a wikitable for the article and will continue to add more works to the list. As for the move, feel free to go ahead and move it back. I wasn't completely sure whether to include
Ziehrer's first name or not, and wasn't completely sure what WP protocol was on it. Best,
181:'s composition list, for example, you can see that his works all have their own articles -- that goes for a lot of other composers as well. I think that unless it's really a problem or something to have individual articles, it would be best to leave them as they are. Best regards, ♪
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classical music, and eventually left the message with you. Anyway, it sounded like you broadly upheld my editing, and that seems to be what he's unhappy about it. My hunch is that he thought he would have control over his own article, and didn't read the link I provided to
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OK. I've had a look at this. (I had a bit of difficulty remembering the details.) You obviously understand this subject well. I would suggest that (1) you sign on to WP and get a username so people will know who you are and trust your edits, (2) you edit
756:
OK. I've had a look at this. (I had a bit of difficulty remembering the details.) You obviously understand this subject well. I would suggest that (1) you sign on to WP and get a username so people will know who you are and trust your edits, (2) you edit
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The "opéras comiques" were from the early days of the genre. They were simply plays with a few songs thrown in. Not much is known about the extent of Rameau's work on these pieces; he may have collaborated with others and AFAIK some of them (e.g.
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No, the "opéras-ballets" and "actes de ballet" are bona fide operas (just with more dance music than the other genres). On the other hand, the so-called "opéras comiques" are merely plays with a few songs now and then. Schubert's
1247:
I apologize for being unclear. She knows about the WP page and is well aware that I'm looking for a photo and has informed me she will follow up on this. I just thought it would make it easier for a non-wiki-savvy person to
1196:
I tried long ago to use a press PR photo for my subject, and I know that is not allowed. I've read about the image placeholder discussion that took place earlier this year. I understand that things are not settled.
1131:
Please let me know if there's somewhere else I should ask this question. I was very glad to find so many references in proper sources... I will have to expand the biography to use them all. Thanks for your help!
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A third opinion from someone else from
Wikiproject classical music seems to be the best move at the moment. If that doesn't settle it, I'm tempted to suggest an AfD as a formality. Hope this makes sense.
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One item in particular, though, I don't know what to do with. It's material found on a personal blog, where the blogger interviews my subject and discusses important things not discussed elsewhere.
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has not). If it's improved and enlarged in its scope I think that will obviate problems with the articles on individual directors - setting them in a clear context. Best regards. --
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has not). If it's improved and enlarged in its scope I think that will obviate problems with the articles on individual directors - setting them in a clear context. Best regards. --
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I'm happy with all that - except the Afd. I think it's better to avoid any unnecessary drama - and as far as I can see he is notable. Would you like to explain the issue on the
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with links to previous, exhaustive centralized discussions. I am a member of the classical music projects but please note that I do not, of course, represent them. Thank you. --
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I looked through a sampling of the edits the bot made (it got it to letter I). Most of them seem to have B assessments from Biography, which is probably fine for our purposes.
1206:
I don't want to raise any alarm, or spark an argument, so I thought I'd check with you to see if I can do this and not appear to be ignorant of the outstanding controversy.
1203:
It will not be a general long-standing request for a photo from the community. I expect it to take no longer than a week or two, after which I can remove the placeholder.
558:
At the moment the guidelines don't reflect a major consensus against info boxes for violinists, they reflect the consensus on Composers Project and the Opera Project.See
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can do to commemorate his centennial? Since it may be difficult to elevate the article to featured article status, are there other options besides a DYK nomination?
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Two points. (1) I'd keep image placeholders out of the essay. That's a separate issue. (2) As I've constantly emphasized we should concentrate our objections on
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We should keep the list on the Rameau biography page since it divides the works in a different way (by genre rather than date), which I find useful. Cheers. --
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Komponisten sein, deren Intentionen in der alltäglichen Theaterroutine keinen Platz mehr fanden. Die Partitur wurde zur Grundlage aller szenischen Arbeit."
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Komponisten sein, deren Intentionen in der alltäglichen Theaterroutine keinen Platz mehr fanden. Die Partitur wurde zur Grundlage aller szenischen Arbeit."
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Well, it now looks like someone else has intervened anyway. Since that editor appeared to know what he/she is doing, I'm happy to leave it like it is now.
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61:. Be aware that the page may be outdated and that the user in whose space this page is located may have no personal affiliation with any site other than
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However, I'd like to use the image placeholder for a brief period only, to make is easy for the photographer (or "a" photographer) to add the photo.
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page. Your expert eye is apprecited as I know you are involved with the Opera Project. I recently translated an article for another Japanese opera,
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Do you understand what he is angry about? I'm having difficulty remembering this one. As for giving this an airing, I guess we could take it to the
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848:"Method and Attitude", in The Music Theater of Walter Felsenstein. Translated and Edited by Peter Paul Fuchs (New York: W.W. Norton, 1975), p. 15.
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692:"Method and Attitude", in The Music Theater of Walter Felsenstein. Translated and Edited by Peter Paul Fuchs (New York: W.W. Norton, 1975), p. 15.
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then you are seriously misleading them. This is the same issue as infoboxes: factual accuracy is more important than technical convenience. --
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Oh, I am sorry, I did not realize that there had been consensus reached on the subject. Thank you for bringing it to my attention. Cheers!
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To ascertain a consensus about using info boxes on instrumentalists, we should have more time to see what that consensus truly stipulates.
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infoboxes. The pro-boxers always repeat the (untrue) charge that those who are against the use of biographical boxes are against
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This is not an encyclopedia article or the talk page for an encyclopedia article. If you find this page on any site other than
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OK. Please take this up with the project. All the classical music projects have the same policy. I suggest you write to
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Sounds good. I don't have time right now, but I will sign up and take another look at these pages in the near future.
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Sounds good. I don't have time right now, but I will sign up and take another look at these pages in the near future.
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There are existing info boxes for other "historic" violinists, that were done by others and nobody seemed to mind them.
377:. Your articles are very good. If you want to do some more, there are quite a few red-linked Japanese operas linked on
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885:, 30. Mai 2001, „Über den Regisseur und Theaterleiter Walter Felsenstein, der heute 100 Jahre alt geworden wäre.“
729:, 30. Mai 2001, „Über den Regisseur und Theaterleiter Walter Felsenstein, der heute 100 Jahre alt geworden wäre.“
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I've been busily collecting reference material to expand the BLP I'm working on, and I've had very good luck.
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Great. Also, take a look at this article (there is a link on the German Wiki entry on Walter Felsenstein):
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Great. Also, take a look at this article (there is a link on the German Wiki entry on Walter Felsenstein):
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Hi. This is to explain that although composers don't have bio-infoboxes, neither do violinists etc. See
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The version I saw this morning would certainly mislead the casual reader. It gave the impression that
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I've had a quick look and edit. No great problems I think. Will get back to this next week. Best. --
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lists them separately from Rameau's operas proper. By common consensus, his first real opera is
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on what should go on the page. Since you presumably know about this sort of thing, can you help?
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I'm hoping to arrange for a photo of my BLP subject, want to use a placeholder to make it easier
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Wikipedia_talk:Notability_(people)#Individual_wikiprojects_are_deleting_infoboxes_from_articles
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P.S. I see you have reverted this page again. - so I don't wish to continue a dialogue here. --
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if you are interested. Feel free to contribute to it or provide me with some feedback. Cheers.
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photos. You can then clear them with the necessary WP notices. It shouldn't be a problem. --
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I'm not sure I get the whole scenario so I'd prefer it if you take the lead. Is that OK? --
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So if you don't mind, I would rather like to see info box for Garcin and other violinists.
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but I'm not sure what exactly is the problem here and what there is to say about it. --
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This method does not work for Rameau. "Sortability" takes second place to accuracy. --
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Ohh I see what you mean. I got your note before I made another one. Sorry about that.
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381:, see the Kazuko Hara, Minoru Miki, Shigeaki Saegusa, Kosaku Yamada entries etc. --
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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It's the first todo item under "incorporate suggestions." on my User page.
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What to do with interesting information found on a personal websiite?
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Could you do that? I'm not exactly sure how to do it. Best regards! ♪
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OK. I've now put some cmments on the page and done a brief edit. --
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Please refer your question to the projects that have guidelines on
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Hmm, I'm not too sure about merging the articles: if you look at
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Hello Kleinzach: Thank you for reviewing the information on the
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Thanks for your note. I've made some small technical edits to
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would count as more of an "opera" than any of these works. --
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Knowledge:WikiProject Classical music#Biographical_infoboxes
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Knowledge:WikiProject Classical music#Biographical_infoboxes
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Knowledge:WikiProject Classical music#Biographical_infoboxes
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will celebrate his 100th birthday. Is there something the
1344:. What is the next stage in the dispute process anyway?
1555:
A new user you helped answered on their talkpage here:
922:
After that I wonder if you might (3) have a look at
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After that I wonder if you might (3) have a look at
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which has just discussed this matter. Thank you. --
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Oops, I didn't see that. Thanks, I changed it now. ♪
1587:For your information, this article is now at FAC.
1321:Hello Kleinzach, I replied on my own talk page.
1066:infoboxes. (There are no guidelines on infoboxes
917:as you think appropriate - and give references.
761:as you think appropriate - and give references.
296:Okay. Thanks for your help, and happy editing! ♪
930:this article has been a problem (in a way that
774:this article has been a problem (in a way that
428:Yes, there is one possibility. It could go on
1084:Knowledge:WikiProject Composers#Lead section
853:Thanks. Will have a look next week. Best. --
697:Thanks. Will have a look next week. Best. --
1559:. You might want to reply to them. Regards
1209:As always, thanks for your consideration!
536:. Thanks for your understanding on this.--
1039:Your anti-infoboxing has been brought to
1671:If you give readers the impression that
70:. The original talk page is located at
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877:„Das Leben durch die Kunst verbessern“
721:„Das Leben durch die Kunst verbessern“
108:Do not edit the contents of this page.
1711:was Rameau's first opera rather than
1675:was Rameau's first opera rather than
1088:Knowledge:WikiProject Opera#Infoboxes
1047:is deprived of a box, specifically?
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1426:? I will add my comments. Best. --
405:Hello again. In about one month,
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1340:You might want to have a look at
80:ki/User_talk:Kleinzach/Archive_20
926:to see if this can be improved.
770:to see if this can be improved.
571:Thank you for your understanding
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1638:want to see the stage works. --
970:Italics on a musical list page?
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432:. I's suggest putting a note
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1035:De-boxing biography articles
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831:Let me know your thoughts.
675:Let me know your thoughts.
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1336:Edoardo Catemario part II
1043:. I'm curious, too - why
1582:Mozart family Grand Tour
1082:. The guidelines are at
1424:Classical music project
1361:Classical music project
1128:they can be mentioned?
1740:List of operas by Adam
1613:French Baroque Masters
1342:Talk:Edoardo Catemario
1272:Knowledge:Disinfoboxes
1149:Sarah Cahill (pianist)
430:Portal:Classical music
326:Voice range categories
411:WikiProject Composers
106:of past discussions.
1617:Hippolyte et Aricie
1557:User talk:Belle5410
1527:Chris Neville-Smith
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1317:Mozart wikiproject?
469:Chris Neville-Smith
18:User talk:Kleinzach
932:Walter Felsenstein
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57:you are viewing a
1609:Le procureur dupe
1297:boxes. Not so. --
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77:pedia.org/wi
31:
1709:L'endriague
1673:L'endriague
1602:Rameau list
992:Replied. --
974:Please see
892:—Preceding
835:69.3.129.47
815:felsenstein
736:—Preceding
679:69.3.129.47
659:felsenstein
100:This is an
59:mirror site
1457:capacity.
1012:Re:Botwork
438:. Best. --
352:Shunkinshō
162:Archive 25
154:Archive 22
149:Archive 21
143:Archive 20
137:Archive 19
132:Archive 18
124:Archive 15
32:This is a
1713:Hippolyte
1677:Hippolyte
1655:Rosamunde
1276:Nrswanson
1248:navigate.
1072:Composers
342:Tribal44
1717:Folantin
1695:Folantin
1681:Folantin
1659:Folantin
1640:Folantin
1624:Folantin
1250:Reechard
1211:Reechard
1176:Reechard
1147:Is this
1134:Reechard
982:HWV 258
894:unsigned
738:unsigned
415:Hrdinský
360:Hrdinský
332:Tribal44
173:response
1747:Scapler
645:Milliot
573:Milliot
171:Ziehrer
103:archive
1388:WP:LUC
1323:Opus33
1090:, and
1068:per se
1026:♪piano
1491:Klein
1430:Klein
1367:Klein
1301:Klein
1229:Klein
1155:Klein
1098:Klein
1021:Magic
996:Klein
938:Klein
857:Klein
782:Klein
701:Klein
623:Klein
597:Klein
540:Klein
508:Klein
486:Klein
442:Klein
385:Klein
309:Valse
299:Tempo
275:Valse
265:Tempo
245:Valse
235:Tempo
218:Valse
208:Tempo
194:Valse
184:Tempo
67:pedia
53:pedia
38:pedia
16:<
1751:talk
1721:talk
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1496:zach
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1234:zach
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1078:and
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902:talk
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577:talk
545:zach
513:zach
491:zach
473:talk
447:zach
435:here
419:talk
390:zach
364:talk
336:talk
64:Wiki
50:Wiki
35:Wiki
1568:Why
1295:all
1086:,
1049:NVO
1753:)
1723:)
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1563:So
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338:)
312:♪
304:Di
278:♪
270:Di
248:♪
240:Di
221:♪
213:Di
197:♪
189:Di
158:→
128:←
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232:♪
114:.
83:.
55:,
44:.
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