User talk:Johnuniq/Archive 1

1845:

interested in that artists and artwork accessible on the various links. In making that comment, I would note that spiritoftheages.com is clearly under continuous development - I have noted regular revisions to the site with many of the more recent updates involving the inclusion of considerable material derived from original sources (inclusive of details around publishing, illustrations, the artists and the text related to the illustrations). Some of that information has directly contributed to Knowledge articles. Further, in a number of cases, the link site (spiritoftheages.com) has highly detailed information of research value that does not otherwise appear to be available on the web - examples that spring to mind are the emerging practice on the site to accompany images with associated text (as is the case in Vernon Hill's illustrations to Ballads Weird and Wonderful), Holbein's illustrations to The Praise of Folly (Moriae Encomium) , illustrations shown from Der Weiss Kunig (where extracts of translated text from the medieval German is shown on occasions), Der Todten-Tantz (where German and English text is shown with the associated image) and Michaud's The History of the Crusades (where Dore's illustrations are shown with Michaud's associated text). I do appreciate the comments about spam and the like, but believe this to be a significant resource that has relevance to Knowledge users (and rather than go ahead with inserting references again, would appreciate some considered comment about the points I have raised before taking such potentially inflammatory action).

2789:], not by me. It is evident that this seems to offend many editors as they cite the usage of my user name as blatant self promotion. This seems to be somewhat of a conflicting message: should I use my real name as a user name or not? One of the other points of contention is the use of my name in the file name and this is cited this as a reason under WP:PROMOTION to delete my images. I fully understand the desire to eliminate links and references to youtube or any other website and have complied with this on subsequent uploaded images. However, I have poured over these articles and no where can I find any prohibition against using your name in the file name. Yet this appears to be a major sticking point. I am quite amazed that other physicians uploaded images (of which you are aware) continue to be posted with hyperlinks to their personal websites with no action by you to remove them. Yet my uploaded images are quite rapidly removed even when posted with no links. Can you help me to understand while a file name identifying my user name is more offensive than a link and why/where this is not permitted? Thank you for your time and attention. I look forward to your response. With all due respect. 2452:) about the current issue, and I haven't worked out exactly what happened at the start, but I suspect that if you hadn't politely and persistently pushed the issue, we would still have thousands of badly incorrect pages. It is natural for people to get a little defensive when challenged, and as I said I haven't read all the material on this, but I have not noticed any acknowledgement from the bot owner regarding responsibility. This is possibly yet another case of a highly capable and intelligent person (the bot owner) who is used to being surrounded by lesser lights, and who can't adapt to the fact that they are now in a bigger pond where it is they who are among the lesser lights. I will follow your example of restraint and not say what I really think, however I will note that while one may not admire Martin's programming skills, you have to admire his confidence for announcing that he will code a second bot to fix the foul ups of the first. 2503:

concerned. I have no idea about the merits of the particular case being discussed, although if I were a great editor and Jimbo blocked me for three hours because of some temporary transgression, I hope I would make my explanations and complaints loudly, and then get on with it. There are less-than-perfect managers in many companies, and they make bad decisions a few times each week. Indeed, there are many areas of society (politicians, judges) where bad decisions are regularly made, and if Jimbo were replaced by a committee, that committee would occasionally make bad decisions. Given that perpetual perfection is not going to happen, my opinion is that the simplicity of a fallible superadmin is preferable to an interminable bureaucracy. However, I guess I'll have to learn how de.wikipedia does things, perhaps in a beer hall? Is there a German equivalent of WR?

420:

from this will get their work corrected by other editors. This is how wikipedia operates and I'm very happy to leave things to evolutionary forces in this way without overly trying to second guess how future editors might behave :-) So at the end of the day it seems that you & I agree all along, it's just that I'm a little more relaxed. And hey, who knows? In 5yrs time the tides might change and a new concensus overturns our opinions and comes up with something totally different. So when it comes to wikipedia I tend to not hold my breath too hard, but just do what keeps an enclycopedia new and exciting. I think it is exciting that wikipedia is not boring like traditional encyclopedias, but does entertain pop culture and things of significant public interest, (for example).

2942:, then the experience of many of us is that the person is extremely unlikely to become a helpful editor, so any border-line activity by that editor will receive a lot of push-back. This, of course, is just my opinion and we are all equals here, so you are free to ignore my advice. I'm just letting you know that I think people would assume the worst if you were to resume any form of editing that mentioned your business, or which seemed to be a repeat (with variation) of the previous activity. After (say) three months you might think about uploading some images using the pattern of Droliver where the image is named for what it is (no promotional component), and where the file information has no promotional content. 4053:

discussion seems to be happening: telling someone to simply stop editing isn't constructive. I have simply asked what is violating policy. The rule pointed out was misinterpreted and I pointed out the policy page which contradicts this. What period of time do you think I should volunteer for here? A week or something would be reasonable, I think, for people to apply to make the necessary changes/clarifies on the WP pages so they can properly explain how I'm being disruptive. The previous block was about redirects, not refactoring, so threatening to reinstate a previous block which was over a separate issue is something I don't understand.

353:, where there is a large section on religion in his biography and no suitable single "label" exists, it is acceptable to just put "see article" in the religion field. This has been there nearly a year in the Einstein article and has survived 100s of pretty vicious local editors there...so you don't want to delete that or you will start a huge war against their local consensus :-) Better leave sleeping dogs lie, and not fix something that ain't broke. If you could put a "draft policy" below our present discussions on the infobox talk page, we could all help to chip in and tweak it up. 2787:] I am relatively new to this media and still learning the ropes. I am slowly gaining an appreciation for the nuances of this unique culture and appropriate behaviors which are not clear cut and often acquired through trial and error. I appreciate your scrubbing some of my images, eliminating white space, unnecessary text, etc. As images get deleted, I seem to be referred to various WP articles justifying the actions. However, in other instances the reasons are not as clear. My user name was created by Fred Bauder 3835: 1535: 1392: 1343: 814: 792: 31: 2949:, one image appeared to simply illustrate what a reasonable procedure might accomplish, while the other image seemed from a fantasy world. I acknowledge that a woman wanting the procedure would need to be shown a wide range of photos so she could decide for herself what personal image she wanted, but the article should (IMHO) treat the matter from an encyclopedic point of view, as a medical article, where an ostentatious display is inappropriate. 3784: 1880:

loaded with defamatory assumptions that betray a zealotry that is unwarranted in editing - similar to many of the justifications used, including that "the images are postage stamp sized" and the like (obviously the size of the images depends on the screen resolution - and not all users have hi-def screens). For some time, I have been adding information to Knowledge on various subjects - and I will continue to do so.

770:. If you notice more vandalism that has not been followed up (with sterner warnings on the talk page, and a possible editing block), let me know here and I'll look at it (if you don't want to do it yourself). I gather that the Wikipedian approach is to tolerate quite a lot of abuse in the hope that people will grow up and contribute helpfully in the future. Heavy-handed banning might just create a bunch of misfits. 2363:

contributions are a) not improvements, and b) disruptive. (He is not, as far as I can see, being deliberately disruptive.) This is an article which is on the evol biol slate, and I am not anxious to walk away from it, but it does illustrate the irony that well-meaning but ignorant editing can do more damage than outright vandalism. I have tried to explain on talk page, but he goes on and on.

3538:

moment, and corrections may be required. Here, however, we would generally not need to quote something so incorrect that it cannot be reasonably understood. However, the main point is that "the truth will out" is a well known phrase with a history (use Google to search for the phrase, including the quotes). So, inserting an explanation is not needed, and it breaks the cultural reference.

2426:

this could improve the way bots are used on wikipeida: having someone be responsible for monitoring them, for owners responding to errors, for stopping bots with the most basic programming errors. If I wrote software or an algorithm like this, I'd lose my job. If this group doesn't want responsibility, they should lose the right to authorize bots. Again, my opinion.

2487:

apply to (for example) the german, french etc. wikipedias who don't have such a chap? - regardless, I think the point is interesting, but ultimately not hugely relevant to the specific discussion over there which by my reading is more about a specific block and discussion than the more general abstract point? Nice to 'meet' you anywhoo, and see you around :-)

2695:– normally the message would be absolutely the right thing, but in this case I would recommend deleting the whole section because the bad links will be black listed which will make it impossible for them to be added anywhere, so the message will simply be another acknowledgement of the spammer. I would recommend deleting the section with edit summary like " 2272:? It said "Cheung Kong Holdings to 9.42 billion won huge price "Ho Man Tin plots." This is the highest since 1997, the price of single plots." This shows it is a fact with reliable source. If you don't know too much on Hong Kong buildings, you'd better understand it. But please don't delete it because you (or some of the people) want to delete it. 2820:) pointing out that the fact that one person manages to post dubious content is not a reason for another to do it. I do not know the details, but it is possible that people reacted to what they perceived to be an attempt to promote the practice of a plastic surgeon that was far too blatant. Having said that, I have to tell you that 863:

template needs to be changed, and what it needs to be changed to. And give a link to a page that illustrates the problem, and a brief statement of what the problem is, and how the change would fix it. I'm replying here rather than on the talk page because everything I'm saying is just noise to an admin who might fix the problem.

2869:: Yes, I am astonished that there are still some images with a link to the web site of a plastic surgeon. Certainly if I noticed any similar new activity, I would strenuously oppose it, and if I had time I would like to see what can be done to remove the links. Someone will probably get around to cleaning up in due course. 3573:

you still disagree, lets take it to the talk page. On a related note, I saw your Hudson River School article and interestingly, thought that a different branch from that link was actually one of the best links in that list. I ripped a whole bunch of them out. Anyway, thanks for helping clean out some of the weeds.

1317:) were to add external links to the same site. Furthermore that site appears to offer various personal opinions on how things should be, and it's not clear what encyclopedic value it adds to the article. My opinions are simply the opinions of one editor, and it is best for you to raise the matter as you have done at 4079:. We rely on collaboration and common sense, so whether there is a policy against the editing of talk pages is not relevant (and indeed I have edited an article talk page once or twice, for example, by moving a new comment inadvertently inserted into the top of a long page, to the bottom, while answering it). 187:. The whole point is that whereas "citation needed" sounds great, there is no specification for how to decide what was the religious stance of a particular scientist. Would a reference stating that X was confirmed as a Catholic justify describing the religious stance of X as "Catholic"? (The answer is 4018:

is somewhat tedious, but as far as I can tell (I am not an expert), it is a good account of the situation. I am fairly sure it is saying that abiogenesis, while requiring long periods of time for sufficient trials to occur, does not require anything like the infinite monkeys in terms of improbability

3965:

because natural selection is an essential part of the process. One might invoke the monkeys for abiogenesis, but I suspect that it would be a poor analogy because the infinite monkey theorem is bogus: it is absolutely impossible for any number of monkeys in any amount of time to write Hamlet (see the

3517:

I respect your revert but im curious why I cannot change quotes. It is common edit etiquette to edit quotes with inproper grammar with brackets inserting text that was not said so the reader better understands the statement. Is this just for Jimmys page? I see it like this on wikipedia everywhere and

3472:

I can't tell if your concern relates to what you think is damage done to the Knowledge article when I removed the link, or some other point. Please be aware that whatever the merits of the case we are discussing, there are thousands of excellent sites, and most of them would like hundreds of links in

2340:

My "merge" !vote was in response to claims in the previous AfD that "sourced content would be lost in a deletion". If the sourced content was covered in/merged to other articles, the arguement of "lost content" has no basis and we are free to discuss whether the article has merit to stand on its own,

1961:

Hello, I've recently tried to restore this page to a version which can be improved upon (a non-protected, non-disambiguation page) and I wondered if I could get your opinion about whether it is currently up to the quality which we expect of every Knowledge article. I would appreciate your comments on

1790:

AAAAAHAHAHAH! And after leaving this here, I find you had already added another kind response on the talk page before I got there to kill the offending link. :) Sorry to cause you to spend so much time on this spammer. I appreciate the spamfighting, and again thank you for your detailed response.

1457:

There's still lots I don't know about Knowledge, however I'm pretty sure the MediaWiki software has no system of checking links to see if they are still live. For one thing, in the case we are discussing, what happened was that a web site did not properly renew its DNS registration, so a scammer took

4086:

about the time that many different people will spend wondering why changes are being made to talk pages on their watch lists, or why if anyone ever did need to study an old talk page, they would need to look at it as written, rather than as refactored by another party. Given all this, I do not think

3991:

It only has to be four letters: A, C, G, and T. I take your point that a weasel is better than a monkey, now that I have read that article. As for proteins, unless someone refuted this while I was not watching, which is quite possible, you can get them from an asteroid of just about any size landing

3572:

hey - I reviewed change and while I absolutely know where you're coming from, it looked like this link provided a depth of info on artifacts that the main nps site (focused on visitors details) did not provide and AFAICT, not easily reachable from the main nps site. So I reverted in good faith. If

3492:

I don't know if you have had this discussion with other editors (if you have, you may be somewhat frustrated at encountering another person such as myself). The best way to avoid problems would be to have significant discussion somewhere and form a rough guideline outlining how the links in question

2899:

Thank you for your detailed response and explanation. Currently all my images have their links to any website removed as well as the text (FOR MORE INFOR.....). If I were to re-upload my images (comparable to droliver's breast photo) with only my user name and source and eliminate any other name or

2502:

Hmmm. You can possibly tell that I have no idea how things run over there, so you may have located a fatal flaw in my argument. However, I think that en.wikipedia is huge compared with de, which is significantly larger than the others? I suspect that size matters as far as politics and bickering are

2486:

I noticed your comments at Jimbo's talk page, and thought I'd swing by here rather than contribute to the signal / noise over there - hope you don't mind :-) - you raised the possibility that a 'superadmin' is a necessary / desirable role, and I wondered if you'd considered whether or not that would

1290:

I'm sorry for your rather brutal welcome to Knowledge. Judging by your above comment (thanks for being reasonable) you are not what we would normally regard as a spammer. Bear in mind that it is extremely difficult to judge when links are spam, or when a user is a spammer, so mistakes will sometimes

735:

This i.p. address is the i.p. address for a high school. I myself attend it, and have logged on on these computers a few times. If it is possible, and you know how, and you have the authority, I'd suggest blocking it, as the few people in this small High school that I know do constructive edits, all

375:

I've put some thoughts about what the template doc might say in the last two paragraphs of my message just above. Here is another: If a religious stance is specified, the article must discuss how the religious views were expressed by the scientist in the context of their scientific achievements, or,

3910:

Howdy, thanks for the advice on the RfC. I was in the process of moving this past weekend, which took more of my time than expected. I now have internet back up and running at home. I am not sure withdrawing the RfC will help much of anything, although I can appreciate the sentiment you express.

3698:

Regardless of the nature of this page, the effect is that editors who wanted to impede promotional paid editing have been exhausted by the fact that there is no policy to prevent it, other than Jimbo's words (with the normal objection that Jimbo is not different from anyone else). Given the lack of

1919:

The reason this article was nominated for deletion is because it was vandalized by IP address # 71.36.101.63. Prior to the vandalism, the article was approved by several administrators, with a few minor changes. It was posted for 4 weeks before it was altered by # 71.36.101.63, and during that time

419:

I essentially agree with you. Where we are different, is that I'm a bit more relaxed about not trying to overly worry about some editors being too simplistic or inserting poor references. I think once we have an agreed "policy" up on the template page, we'll begin to find that editors that deviate

270:

So long as the religion field is available in a scientist's infobox, we will have enthusiasts who find some biographical reference referring to "Catholic", and who then apply that label to a scientist, regardless of what is known about the scientist's beliefs, and regardless of whether there is any

2990:

I'd like to propose a voluntary moratorium on commenting on others people's !votes in bilateral relations AfDs. At this point, I don't think there's anything to be gained from such comments--obviously no one is convincing anyone--meanwhile, the acrimony rises and uninvolved editors are discouraged

2804:

Some preliminary points: I have some sympathy for your position since I am quite an experienced wiki editor (even before I reached Knowledge), yet I am often baffled by details of how things are done here. Also, while I have reverted a couple of edits in relation to plastic surgery, it was someone

1665:

may seem inconsiderate. However, we who have worked at Knowledge for some time have seen an enormous number of misguided edits and we can't take the time to politely respond to each. The person's motivations and intentions become irrelevant – all that matters is what they actually do (your actions

862:

because of an old discussion, so I noticed your post. I suggested a more precise statement of the problem would be helpful because a busy admin won't necessarily be familiar with all the details. It sounds like you know what needs to be done. In that case, I suggest you spell out which line of the

490:

You shouldn't censor variances in models of evolution just because of your own POV, beliefs, or what ever. Information and facts presented in a logical way should be available to the general public. If you have a problem with that, you should have created a talk page rather then start an edit war.

396:

I might think about the template doc a little more, later. I wouldn't want to cut short the discussion for a while yet, although I'd be happy to join in if you wanted to start a new section calling for a discussion on what the template doc might say. I'm also thinking I really should add a comment

306:

Your comments above about referencing would need to be spelt out in the template doc (currently, it just says "religion : Religious beliefs"). I would be a lot more relaxed about keeping "religion" if the doc clearly implied that a label should only be added if it currently has a link showing that

4047:

Unfortunately if I were to stop editing talk pages, I wouldn't be able to communicate with others as I am with you now. Even if you mean article talk pages, I think communicating on those is very valuable and helps to prevent or better solve disputes that may occur within the edit summaries of an

2425:

There were low level programming mistakes that should not have occurred. A group that has the right to authorize bots should bear some responsibility for the actions and inactions of bot owners-such as a bot owner who is as unresponsive to errors as Martin was (for months). It's my opinion that

1879:

There certainly seem to be a lot of assumptions being made by some otherwise well-intentioned editors, including that I am working for spiritoftheages.com and thus, am "obviously ... looking for places fo Knowledge where ... can inject links to ... site". That response seems overly emotional and

96:

and it appears that they are a young company that has only made a few documentaries. Also, I saw no mentions of them on magazines about films, and I didn't see any indication that any of their documentaries has become famous or make a remarkable addition to the field of documentaries or any other

3537:

was to change "the truth will out" (part of a quotation) to "the truth will out". There is a slight issue with regard to inserting "" because there is a suggestion that the speaker was blatantly incorrect and requires correction. Newspapers often need to quote statements made in the heat of the

1001:

which reads (in full): "A cooperative organization of the global aerospace industry that is mainly involved in quality, cost reduction and process improvement efforts." The article is only four short sentences, and has six references and an official web site; I thought that was adequate, and the

2967:

Thank you for your feedback. I derived valuable insight from your comments. As a plastic surgeon, I view my value as contributing within that area of expertise. I doubt anyone would be interested in my input on oceanoagraphic studies when it is not my field. If Dr. Oliver (droliver) imageas are

1844:

Without seeking to offend any of the editors involved in the decision to remove references to spiritoftheages.com, the comments - including that site has "o encyclopedic purpose for ... readers" - seems inaccurate and the action to remove links based upon such comments removes links for readers

290:

is very hot. Undoubtedly, some editors will want to apply "Catholic" to any scientist who had even a brief encounter with Catholicism, while other editors will want to remove all religious labels. I think that the resolution is very simple: remove "religion" from the infobox, and quote reliable

274:

I know that Knowledge has lots of disputed issues, and disputation is not a reason to omit valid information. The problem is that there can never be a reasonable way to sum up a scientist's religious beliefs in an infobox, so even in principle, there is no way to determine a procedure to decide

2101:

I really have no idea why you want to post on my talk page. If you have a request to make, or advice to give, I do not see it in the above. You may be used to forums where there are lots of excitable people who will rise to a bait. Haven't you noticed that on Knowledge, at least in many of the

442:

Your concerns are well voiced and will hopefully elicit the appropriate response. My cheap shots were aimed at another. A great deal of effort went into obtaining the copy-right on that image; their suggestion that it was random or slapped up and that we were that dim witted at the time of the

384:

satisfy me is if X had written about their beliefs: then extracts could be quoted in the article, and the label would be justified. However, it seems a little unfair to require certain historical figures (you mentioned two) to follow this rule when it is clear that the scientist's behavior was

242:

If precise information is known about a scientist, I believe you are correct, and the more details displayed, the better (although in practice you would want a limited subset of details in the infobox). The problem is that "Catholic" and "Nominal Catholic" are very imprecise terms: they don't

3936:

The infinite monkey theorem states that a very unlikely event can occur if enough chances for it to happen are allowed. Millions of years allows events that are less likely, to happen. The previous sentences in the paragraph are statements of the alleged unlikeliness of evolutionary changes.

2999:), but these should be kept to an absolute minimum. I intend invite all of the "usual suspects" to join this moratorium. I've missed someone, please invite them. As I am posting this message to several people's talk pages, please discuss, and ideally note whether you intend to abide by this, 757:

Thanks for the suggestion. I know it's frustrating – I have been in a similar situation behind a proxy, and shared an IP address used by immature people. I'm not greatly familiar with the processes, but my feeling is that there would need to be quite a bit more abuse before it would be worth

4052:

says refactoring is NOT editing, it's minor. Now that aside: I am actually willing to stop doing this for a period of time while people have a discussion. After all, arguing like this gets depressing and I like taking time off while people collect their thoughts. The problem here is that no

1458:

it over. The links still worked; you would need a human to determine that the target of the link was no longer the intended site. There are several bots run by users that do various things, but I don't know of any for this specific task. The link bots that I've noticed are looking for spam.

2421:

Still, I'm human and appreciate that other editors, such as yourself and Hesperian, and most of the editors at the AfD, and a number on the BAG board, saw that my comments were intended to start a needed community discussion to improve wikipedia by preventing similar events from occurring.

121:, and the speedu templates available, you can only speedy vandalism redirects, nonsense redirects, or redirects resulting from a page move. Since the problem with this one is notability, then it *has* to be nominated on WP:TFD (altought, if it's orphaned, maybe you can get away with using 2362:

This article, which had been stable for some time, has attracted the attentions of a newish contributor, whose edits are costing me much time and trouble. So I'm asking for some help and/or advice. The main problem, as I see it, is that he doesn't understand enough to appreciate that his

545:

Well, there is actually a wealth of typographical niceties, but Knowledge has been turning more and more conservative. For example, typographical quotes were OK, now they are frowned upon, which I totally disagree with: we should not be stuck with typewriter conventions that so uglify

1819:

I understand. "high-handed"?...well, different from the way I prefer to do it "retail". But there is simply NO WAY to handle things the same "wholesale". No need to reply, I have taken enough of your time. :) I haven't done any serious vandal-fighting in months, my hat is off to

2824:

Wikipedians really hate promotion of any kind, and if there were more hours in a day, we would remove absolutely all of it. From our point of view, Knowledge is an amazing success due to the efforts of countless volunteers, and we object to people who try to take advantage of the

1681:) have been to insert a paragraph of vaguely relevant material with a link to your web site (a site that sells reports). Second, you post multiple copies of the same response to the various editors who have reverted your edits. In some cases, the response was not at all relevant. 1511:

OK, I misunderstood. I thought you meant you didn't bother to note the corrections of the dead links on all of the pages where they existed, that you just changed the links automatically without the changes registering in the history of all those pages or something. My mistake.

379:

But even that's not adequate. A biography for scientist X may state that X attended a Catholic school and occasionally visited church as an adult. Does that indicate that X had a Catholic religious stance? Or was X merely following tradition to avoid conflict with a parent? What

2459:, but given the large number of misguided people wandering around Knowledge, it is understandable that some BAG people sometimes act inappropriately because they would be used to seeing clueless reports. Unfortunately the volunteers doing routine maintenance (such as at BAG and 3970:). As I recall, Hoyle was talking about the chance of a protein molecule being assembled from elements, but biologists do not claim that anything as complex as a protein molecule was assembled by chance in one step (it was lots of smaller steps, filtered by natural selection). 2012:

Please show what do you have to add to something nobody in science debate and how you want to reach consensus? Is your aim to diverge the description of scientific debate between two somehow valid conception the 'mainstream' RR v ME by staffing it by undigestible nonsenses ?

3477:

to gauge some of the impact (there are lots of dubious link additions, to music articles for example, that are not reported). So, if your concern is focused on Knowledge you may understand that it is reasonable to not see much difference between the link additions for

1101:

I hope the article as a whole is comprehensible to a keen young student of 15 or 16, when they may meet the subject in school. The main audience is probably college students taking biology courses. I often wish WP would give clearer guidance to its readers, such as to

2749:

Er, actually it did need saying, because someone has repeatedly removed reliably ref'd material on Cuvier's éloge of Lamark (see hist. of Lamarck article). While I'm here thank you for calming Polymorphism (biology) down; your slightest touch has a magical effect...

578:

The issues you mention are actually type and application issues. Things do look great on recent versions of Gnome and Mac OS X. And the search issues… well, they are actually search engine issues, of which I never saw an example perhaps due to using Unicode and

969:

is tricky, and if you see I've made a mistake please revert it. I got involved in this fairly recently but have already found quite a few crystal-clear cases where commercial interests have gone to quite a lot of trouble to spam links into Knowledge. I noticed a

2417:

Thanks for the comments. No one who read my posts said anything near what ThaddeusB said to me, so, it was worth trying to clear up; but once he continued to show he was not reading anyone's posts, as others pointed out to him, there was nothing to do.

2598:

Hey, thanks very much for cleaning up the spammed links to the watch site. I took a break after reporting and blocking all the SPAs, and came back to find that you'd removed the links, saving me a whole bunch of additional time. I appreciate it. Cheers.

2129:

It would much better if you were to just state your point, and give an argument, without drama. The emoticons and side comments obscure what you are saying. Even the first sentence in your above paragraph is mysterious – please just say what you mean.

3752:

Thank you! It's been a bumpy road but because of the stonewalling I've actually researched the RfC and Wales' talkpage, the Arbcom actions, et al. So it's been a trial but my understanding of the issues are better so I'll try to improve the page.

1632:

After the posting about 'conflict' of interest on my discussion page I understand that I shouldn't keep linking to IBISWorld everytime I write an economic/industry entry so I will refrain from doing this anymore unless it is crucial to the entry.

247:

in common with Catholic doctrines. Someone could be labeled "Catholic" simply because they were raised in a Catholic tradition, and they never "rocked the family boat" by expressing anti-Catholic feelings. Another "Catholic" scientist could have

2876:

promotion involved. Second, while we don't like promotion anywhere, it is completely unacceptable for promotion to be visible in an article (including in the names of an image). Third, the text "FOR MORE INFORMATION PLEASE CLICK ON PHOTO" added

3960:

does not apply to evolution because the monkeys type randomly and only stop if the entire Hamlet is produced correctly (which will never happen). In the context of evolution of the eye, for example, it would be more appropriate to refer to the

1563:. Do you rely want to talk about it? If so please feel free to open the talk page on it. Perhaps you can define your objection Right now its hardly to replay to you in more detailed way. I think you will praise this as best atempt to wikilowe. 344:

who is probably the most famous Jesuit. For scientists where there is no source where he/she has explicitly bought it up and/or religion is only nominal, I agree it should be left blank. And I agree I was therefore wrong to put a religion in

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articles inception was taken personally. I suggest you allow the discussion to lay dormant a bit. I've added my last bit of tongue and cheek commentary. If there is no further dialog; consensus is in your favor. Then edit as you see fit.--

1106:. Of course that presupposes the linked articles are of a similar standard, which (as you point out) is often not so. Hence, I'm going to go over the "main article" links one by one to try & get the ducklings in line. Wish me luck... 2683:

spam. I hope you don't mind, but I have edited your above message to remove the name of the spammer and the sites. The person has a long-term fascination with Knowledge and seems to delight in having their name splashed around, and per

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and saw that Droliver had edited the page, and uploaded images. Even after I inspected the upload information of the image I had no idea he is a plastic surgeon. You have to visit his user page to learn that, and the user page does

349:, when he was only a nominal Catholic. I like you idea of inserting such guidelines on the infobox page, without need to delete the whole field. Did you want to have a crack at drafting something up? (In the few rare cases, like 1027:

Well, as it turned out, I had to rewrite most of this article to get some kind of consistency. The main change was to move from adaptation solely as a product of evolution, to the more important idea of adaptation as a process.

3415:#2, it would be preferable (although a lot more work) for editors to contribute some facts learned from the source, then cite the source. However, I do note that this is a tricky case, and perhaps the 1989 links are justified. 1986: 2932:

Some problems cannot be overcome without a great deal of time and effort, so my advice would be to consider whether you really want to spend (say) three months doing four hours work per week by improving articles on Knowledge

680:". Is there a policy guideline recommending that because, while some like it and some don't, I have noticed some editors removing those spaces when an article had a mixture of both styles (so I've done it a couple of times)? 666:

I'm not sure about the rules or policy regarding this, however my bot is just using a script that is already coded by other users, however if this is required then I will see if I can get someone to update the code to fix

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geographical reference including the file name, would you consider this acceptable and not viewed as "SPA" promottion? By the way what does SPA stand for? Again thank you for your patience and spelling this out for me.

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any hint of the work being related to your practice. The problem is that editors have no way of judging the intentions of another editor, and in fact we don't care – what counts is behavior. If a person behaves as an

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Particularly with the rise of creationism (using technology devised by scientists!), we should not make it easy for people to attach simplistic religious-stance labels to scientists. Of course in many cases the label

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will return soon and will handle the issue. If necessary, I will draw it to A. B.'s attention, and the two sites will be added to the blacklist (and if A. B. doesn't return soon, I will get another admin to do it).

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for a prime example. So how about we just don't comment on each others' votes? This moratorium would not cover general comments, i.e. those which aren't indented under and/or in response to a specific !vote (e.g.

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Thanks dm – I'm always a little nervous when cleaning out spam because some editors do not understand how articles would look if that were not done, so I am very happy to hear from you, and welcome what you did.

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look like a promotion, and there is no link to his user page in the article or the image. We see a lot of strange user names here, and I had no idea that "Droliver" is "Dr. Oliver" until you mentioned it

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In the instance of dashes, there is the horizontal bar, which is not used in English; and the - is but a conflation of separate minus and hyphen characters, the latter of which you saw in one of my edits.

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Maybe I will find a citation for what I was looking for sometime. I was not really making a big point, just that within a larger sample of time, less likely things are more likely, than in a small one.

110:, which means that the article will be deleted in 5 days if the prod is not contested, but the that the creator and only contributor to the page has been blocked for "creating non-notable pages", see 4082:

You do not accept that editing comments made by other people on article talk pages is a bad idea, and you think it is helpful because they look better after refactoring. And you are not convinced by

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and claiming that those links (to Iranica) are mainly intended to promote the Iranica website is preposterous. About the 1989 links to Iranica, you can also find more than 200000 links to Britannica

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policy, and the hypothetical philanthropist who might pay editors to write excellent articles, it has been easy to deflect any argument from those who want a barrier erected against paid promotion.

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As for bright 12-year olds, that's always difficult for a scientific article. I agree the intros need especial care; I've noticed that translations into other languages often use only the intros!

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is a long and highly technical article, and I didn't think it needed another section with links to other topics which (while borrowing the word "evolution") are really quite different concepts. --

1496:, I did not bother fixing the links on talk or user pages, only in actual articles. There are lots of bad links on Knowledge, so leaving a few that will probably never be used is not a big deal. 458:

Thanks, although no "sorry" is needed. I'm sorry that my first post on the topic was a little insensitive to you in my attempt to be nice to another. Like I said, now I see the image and text in

3440:) is narrower than that of a general Encyclopedia (like Britannica), but for those topics which are covered by them, the quality of their articles is better and their coverage is more thorough. 2851: 3992:

on some amino acid goo, lightning strikes, probably other things. It is the DNA to tell the proteins what to do that is hard, or more likely, too hard for someone to have figured it out yet.

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I will admit I did enjoy the irony of it being a theory involving monkeys, applied to the controversy about evolution :) But I would not have added it if it was not also directly relevant.

3712:. I'm loathe to put words in your mouth and I'm equally uneasy about others doing so for you. Would you be willing to revisit and expand a bit so misinterpreting your view is less likely? 1985:(bilateral country relations article) notable, so this is a good opportunity. Unfortunately I have some other matters both here and in real life, so I'll need a bit of time to respond on 97:

sort of remarkable achievement. This probably means that don't have enough notability to even create a stub. They also do documentaries on request (I imagine that they get paid for doing

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Unfortunately, your link additions look exactly like spam (there is no reasonable way editors can distinguish them from spam). The main problem is that your first edits (indeed, your

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their web site, or product, or whatever. Therefore, it is entirely possible that one person has their work reverted, while another manages to avoid attention. There's even a page (

2833: 3436:. Does it justify removing Britanica links (claiming that those links are intended to promote its website)? Of course, the scope of a specialized Encyclopedia (like Iranica or 1050:

is certainly past start class. As you've noticed, I have been watching, and made some comments on the talk page and a couple of trivial edits. However, I'm not a member of the

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religion : Normally omitted. Include only if the article discusses how the religious views were expressed by the scientist in the context of their scientific achievements.

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before you suggested deleting the article? You said there are no sources to support its land sales is second highest in Hong Kong history. But did you read the source of

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Overall, I've found this a most helpful critique, so thank you for your review. I have responded to most of the comments with changes, often along the lines you suggest.

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Yes, I had both open at once, I must have chosen the wrong window. However, I'd think personally that the XfD would cover both, so I don't think it is a big problem.

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The "lollies" I am writing are from legitimate encyclopedic sources that add weight to the article. Can you please outline why the posts are deemed as inappropriate?

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I did preserve the other link at Sparks's page on the talk page in case some interested editor decides it really should be there and brings it into compliance with

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them" but it seems you only reduced the number of broken links from around 50 to 17. I have no idea why the others remained behind, but thought you ought to know.

1218:(which has had it's speedy removed and since been prodded). Also, a7 doesn't apply to schools so in future please don't nom schools under that criteria. Cheers - 2985: 1579: 1280: 2997: 1757: 3016: 1881: 1846: 1002:

babylon link was unhelpful. It may well have been inserted in good faith, but I'm pretty confident there are other cases where similar links are just spam.

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Also there are different spaces to be used in specific circumstances. In English, the thin space as a thousands separator and inside dashes come to mind.

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Thanks for including me in the discussion. I have been thinking that we should talk directly to sort out some underlying differences about what makes an

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I don't think one revert should be considered as censorship or an edit war. I'm happy to let others decide the issue, if you revert me. The fact is that

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John, I agree with you that religion should only go in the infobox field if there is a source where the scientist has self-identified him/herself, eg.

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Other editors have been encouraging me to continue going on with this task of adding economic and industry style entries based on proper sources.

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a reference would confirm that he was a nominal Catholic of the type that only turned up for weddings and funerals. I do not see a problem here.

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If you do not find an appropriate argument in one of the lists above, please edit this template (click "e" at the top left) and add your argument

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Hi there. I couldn't answer sooner because I've been busy on RL. I thought of replacing the redirect with a stub on the company, but I looked at

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No problem, and thank you for remaining polite while people were removing links in what I realize must have seemed a pretty high-handed manner.

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with the comment "Spamlink". I don't understand what you mean by that, because all these links have educational value and are non-commercially.

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there were no complaints. All the deletion related complaints were logged during the interval when the article was vandalized. Thanks so much-

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Your first issue is that you do not appear to have spent any time becoming familiar with how things work here. Like the large number of other

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viewed as valuable and non-promotional then that at least establishes a standard or benchmark that is deemed acceptable by the WP community.

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OK thanks. I only edited that article while chasing some vandalism. Someone beat me to cleaning it up this time, but I'll watch the page.

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is an important sport in several countries, and competing in the world Bandy championships is enough to establish a notable relationship.

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These are two obscure little countries in Africa or Asia or Australia or somewhere like that. Their relations cannot possibly be notable.

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None of the sources discusses the relationship itself, just random barrel-scrapings on trivial events like treaties, state visits etc.

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from source (source added), b) wikilinked to best explanation c) fixed obvious mispeling. I believe obvious but its always OK to ask.

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wow.... Rossami rules :) I'll strike some of the items on the list, since they have been are or currently already under discussion --

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I am a long way down the food chain here, but if you ever encounter a problem you are welcome to ask me and I'll see what I can do.

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justified, but I imagine we simply do not know what the beliefs of many modern scientists are (unless they have written about them).

157: 1889: 1854: 1654: 917: 3458:. Which two links are you talking about? There is only one link to Iranica and it goes to the article about Thomas Walker Arnold. 2378:

I see what you mean – that's a lot of changes. I'm nowhere near your technical level, but I'll see what I can do to slow it down.

926:... yes! I was checking a few recent vandal changes by that IP, and my brain didn't switch on until a minute later. You're quick! 239:

is getting lengthy, and might burden readers, but I'm not sure that talking here is a good idea ... however, I'm happy if you are.

108: 105: 3385: 2231: 3920: 1896: 725: 539: 298:, I said that an argument could be made to support keeping the religion field if the template doc was updated, perhaps to read: 216:

is a no-brainer as he was both a scientist and a Catholic Abbot....a reference would bear this out. In the case of someone like

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article. Now, if you're asking me to stop editing others' comments on talk pages: I'm not doing that, I'm refactoring them, as

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Regarding your specific question: I suspect that there were two major problems regarding your images. First, there was clearly

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which is shorter. I checked that you blocked all the spammers that I reverted – I imagine that would have been really tedious!

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there must be a link to a reliable source stating that the scientist expressed the religious stance over an extended period...

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Another point that occurred to me (I don't know about other people) is that when I saw the images as they first appeared on

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Thanks for all your efforts. I am just an evolution enthusiast, but while monitoring pages for bad changes, I have noticed

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on the talk page there, and further improvements that would get it closer to inclusion status are always welcome. Thanks.--

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Thanks for letting me know. At the time, I did some quick checking, but I was mistaken, so I have struck out my opinion at

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Yes, thanks for telling me about this - I will update the edit summary to suit this, with "general fixes" for the article.

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I think it's now well past Start Class, so when you go there next time you might have a think about reclassifying it.

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sources in the article. Where appropriate, give details of how the scientist was influenced by their religious stance.

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about their Catholic beliefs. There is no reasonable way to summarize these widely-differing situations in an infobox.

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Hi 76! Always good to hear from you, but if you have something to say, the talk page of the article would be better.

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Ok sorry. I thought that Jimmy was being incorrect with grammar. Thank you for the clarification and prompt response

2004: 1429: 852: 148:, I would just go and nominate it directly. If you don't know how to do it, then tell me and I will do it for you. -- 1233:

Thanks for cleaning up. I just copied what was done on the duplicate page; will prod for cases like this in future.

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should be handled. Then, when you want to add such a link, include a link to the discussion in your edit summary.

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at the top of the section. That attracts the attention of an admin, who would respond and change the template to

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The article has a picture of the heads of state meeting - if Wikimedia accepted the picture, it must be notable

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I'm curious--does Knowledge run any sort of link checking software to find and fix broken links automatically?

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I changed the user name because I was advised by an editor to keep posting but from a less promotional name.

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Shouldn't the edit summary give a hint that other changes might be made, even if just "and other cleaning"?

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I'm going to assume that you know that people are objecting to the editing of comments made by other users

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It is definitely time to visit the talk page of the article, but I can't resist one more comment here: the

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have an account. I would say something needs to be done, because almost all the edits have been vandalism.

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It's a very attractive result, but yes, it is probably too close to the truth for most people to accept.

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I'm going to pretend that there was a cause-and-effect relationship between what I did and the outcome!

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applicable, but those cases are rare because most scientists do not write about their personal beliefs.

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That means that the redirect will be orphaned on a few days. Unfortunately, it seems that according to

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What I see is Knowledge going the way of DMoz, each day more controls—and less pleasure participating.

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Hi Bletchley (I'm a "keep responses together" person, so I hope you see this). I take your point that

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you will find much benefit from talking to me because all I can do is repeat the points I have made.

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applies to the hundreds of millions of years involved in evolutionary changes." Allow me to explain.

3794: 3489:, there are two links to the web site in the line "Sir Thomas Walker entry in Encyclopaedia Iranica". 3400: 2645: 2345: 2259: 1678: 463: 4042: 3797:. If you are interested in the deletion discussion, please participate by adding your comments at 2755: 2492: 2368: 1111: 1090: 1036: 858:

I hope I didn't give you the wrong impression: I'm just a humble editor who happens to be watching

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delete trailing space at the end of lines. Is there a reason to not clean trailing spaces as well?

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has many meanings in several unrelated fields. In that dab there is a link to a more detailed dab

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It may help if you read firs time skipping text in parenthesis and after it comprehension reading

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with a large percentage of edits clearly connected with a promotion. Droliver is very definitely

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industry group for improving quality, cost reduction and developing standards.". I removed the

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is a valuable resource, but is there to be a link on Knowledge to every one of its pages? Per

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No independent sources are given and none show up on a Google search apart from sports results

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shows that the website has 1989 links on Knowledge, and another is the two links inserted in

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Since being nominated the article has been expanded with several reliable independent sources

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page? Neither is registered to Rod Beckstrom but rather link to the spammer's Facebook page.

2032:(or any page), you should give a brief explanation of what you did. It is not a good idea to 1971: 1434: 994: 604: 448: 209: 168: 153: 3638:

You didn't get the question. The question is: what reason you have to revert to nonsense ?

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a reference would demonstrate he spent his life trying convert people to Catholicism. Also

2036:; use the talk page for that. Please do not try to debate article topics on my talk page. 8: 4011: 3380: 2813: 2751: 2568: 2488: 2364: 2326: 2287:

Yes, I read that article before commenting. I have put a slightly longer response at the

2169:. If you have some advice (for example, if you want to tell me to mind my own business), 1223: 1164: 1125: 1107: 1086: 1032: 798: 791: 425: 358: 225: 275:

whether a label is applicable to a particular scientist. Of course, in some cases (like

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Thanks. No it wasn't obvious ... I sweated for an hour to reword the two paragraphs! --

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cases where an IP editor has made excellent contributions. Too much has been written (

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be made (good edits might be reverted as spam, or bad edits might be allowed to stay).

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If this is still unclear, please say. I hope to reword the sentence so it is clear.

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My mind reading skills are getting a bit rusty, so I will await your elucidation on

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but in this case there is no objective method to assess the link. One clue is that

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Your suggestion on this subject was excellent - but I think I have improved on it.

2181:, and please be aware that I may remove any further meaningless text posted here. 1939:. I don't think you are correct about "administrators", but that does not matter. 3912: 3895: 3856: 3818: 3348: 3338: 3277:, which is justifiable, given the large size of the latter dab. I would keep the 3004: 2607: 2593: 2412: 2399: 1610: 1055: 350: 333: 276: 264: 260: 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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Hopefully additional eyeballs on the issue will help all concerned. Thanks, --

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else who adjusted your images (I know nothing about the scrubbing or deletion).

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alerting people that there are these discussions here and on your talk page. --

354: 279:) we can "recognize it when we see it", and we know that the label for Faraday 221: 125: 2730:

Again, thank you for the tips. Section is removed as per your recommendation.

1742:, as another editor requested. I was just trying to make a polite suggestion. 1645:

I will also remove most of the links to IBISWorld from my old posts as well. (

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The bot replaced some double spaces with a single space (excellent!), but did

613:. Maybe obvious to you, but I saw the need without being able to fulfil it. -- 4088: 4049: 4024: 3978: 3739: 3666: 3625: 3590: 3539: 3494: 3416: 3322: 3285: 3210: 3196: 2950: 2939: 2882: 2873: 2855: 2829: 2766: 2716: 2658: 2631: 2579: 2537: 2527: 2504: 2467: 2379: 2292: 2273: 2217: 2182: 2131: 2103: 2037: 2009:

there is no single current scientific citation on H-O on polygenism either.

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Maybe I am not taking this extremely important issue seriously enough. :~)

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Clearly you are familar with my images as reflected by your comments here:

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Of course I remember what prompted you to post here; what I don't know is

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Hi. Why have you so quickly deemed all my entries to be reverted on site?

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indistinguishable from an enthusiastic follower of their religious stance.

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Just another random pairing of countries with no significant relationship

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where the edit summary was too long, so the link was broken. FYI I added

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Dear John, to avoid cluttering up the talk page, I put my response here:

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Please contact me if you're unsure why you received this message. --

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A Google search with the names of the two countries shows many results

2173:. If you want to ask a question (for example, "can we have a chat?"), 107:, and I saw that the article not only has been prodded for notability 3604: 1764:

http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Spam#thinktalk.com

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I've removed some of the links that I thought were unhelpful. In the

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If only it had an output of 425 megawatts - wouldn't that be nice! -

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Therefore, the infinite monkey theorem bears upon those statements.

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dab; I even thought to add a link to it. I am copying my comment in

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All bilateral relations between two countries are inherently notable

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I apologize for that last question. I've read the SPA link. Thanks.

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Let's hope they're not monitoring what we're muttering about...:)

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of mathematics articles (J-L)

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Knowledge:Articles for deletion/List of mathematics articles (J-L)

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Aymatth2, you should definitely use that template on future AfDs!

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Hi, I replied on my talk page and on the other main page. Cheers

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I'm afraid that people speak fairly bluntly here, so my comments

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You clearly do not understand my point - please read what I said

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we have "see main text", and religion was recently removed from

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Let's leave it for 24 hours and see if anyone else joins in at

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I thought that was the primary organising principle on ANI :)

311:(so a newly-added label with no reference could be removed). -- 286:

I think this matters because, as you pointed out, the issue of

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A tedious pleasure! I noticed you do a couple of reverts like

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You say that you are unsure of what I meant by "However, the

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which I do not feel an article about the "controversy" does.

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I didn't click on your link until now. You said that "I have

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