User:PalestineRemembered/Geni

354:

whatsoever. This time, the reference of the JAZ I've used is not attacking Israel (elsewhere they credibly claim that supporters of Israel contributed to the Holocaust), but defends the pre-Israel state of Jewish-Muslim relations in Palestine, which they claim were always good. The "Real Torah" Jews are by no means the only ones to quote historical accounts to do this. Supporters of Israel seek to silence these real practitioners of Judaism and make constant accusations of antisemitism, against Palestinians, against editors like me - and play such very nasty tricks as accusing survivors of the Holocaust of collaboration against the Nazis on patently false grounds. (Find the link to this if you're interested).

1209:"Writing for the enemy" is an excellent idea, I've requested it some 4 times to 3 different people over the "Kurdi Bear" interview (see my list again). Nobody's (yet) requested it of me. If I can harp back on previous events for a moment, my requests for this "collaborative assistance" led only to accusations I was trying to operate meat-puppets. If you're to be my mentor, it's important you know that various subtle and not-so-subtle pressures will be applied to you ..... if you think I'm trying to bully you now, be aware that I'm a pussy-cat compared with some of the other players on this field! 634:, so it's completely unsuitable to be used in the encyclopedia anyway (and would be utterly unacceptable due to separate accusations that it practises serious distortion, amounting to lies). The same people who successfully edit-warred over that nasty link then try and make out that my three good sources (one was a big group of US service men, one a big group of Israeli service-men and one a link to a photograph) have no place in the enyclopedia? How do they have the brass neck to do this? May I use a Hebrew word for their boldness, or will that lead immediately to even nastier accusations? 618:, my edits were good, containing highly credible, "unsurprising" and relevant information. The references I used in those two early cases should be perfectly adequate to purpose (and likely RS to policy even for much more "surprising" claims). The third reference *is* RS, since it's a link to a satellite photograph (from a research source we should probably be using a lot, but mysteriously upsets some editors, perhaps because of the ethnicity of those who run it). 105:- I've claimed that Geni and myself never exchanged e-mails - and that's not the case after all. She warned me in e-mail once (perhaps urgently) that instructions to translate by "finding a speaker of the language and asking them to do it", (coming from the inserter of non-English references to Palestinian terrorism) was liable to cause really serious offense. Finding this makes me even more grateful for her excellent and only slightly intrusive mentoring. 446:, the other lot presenting a quite different set of the same kind of things - well referenced testimony from people who were on the spot, trying to save people from the Holocaust but getting only obstruction from the Zionist organisations. I won't bother you with a long list of such organisations (I'd want to double-check each one, and the list is a lot longer than when I first downloaded it, containing many more Israeli organisations than it did then). 830:

absolutely no material to work on - nobody has come to you and said "this", "this", "this", and "this" are in breach of WP policy - or even just generally disruptive of the project. Then, just to make things really absurdly difficult, 95% of the people I'm editing with have only "content dispute" type problems with my edits anyway, they spend 0% of their time fending off any issues they have with my "behaviour". Do you wish you'd not offered yourself?

472:, for 2000 years Jews did not practise self-defense, had no intention of setting up a separate state, put the good of their birth nations first and were good regular citizens in every way (perhaps better than many). JAZ comes squarely from that tradition. There's been a massive drop-off in the proportion seriously practising their religion, but the JAZ people are definitely the ones keeping the faith. Calling them "extreme" is more than a might unfair. 521:, exactly as I've said. I have the reference I used (Morris), though there is no particular reason I should have, this story is well known and easily found on the web. The article had been stable until there was a puzzling attempt to exclude the details of this atrocity (these details particularily valuable, because they're the most detailed international eye-witness accounts of the Nakba that we have). See 453:, we have an article that is actually being improved, even against bitter opposition - and the architect of that improvement doesn't rate the personal testimony of this particular Rabbi as highly as I do (he believes there are at least 5 more, the real part of this story can be added later). So we can do without this one. I trust your dedication to the project is never subsumed to gunmen in the future. 837:, removing both the reference to "Jenin Massacre" (3 times more popular than "Battle of Jenin" according to the hated Google Test) and the personal testimony of the bulldozer driver. These removals look a lot like a case of "IDONTLIKEIT" and nothing else - what do you think? Being a pussy-cat, I refuse to go in there and simply reinsert these two excellent pieces of information. 775:. If you think I should strike them out (or part of them out) then I'm perfectly prepared to do so. The first of these edits is actually me disagreeing with someone who considered becoming my "Mentor". (Although this is 7 or so days after I backed out from accepting him as such). You might think that the dignity of the process requires me to be ultra-careful in this context. 1266:

information and some forms of "logic" behind what I seem to be trying to do, but you keep me at arms length because I'm having lots of problems that you manage to avoid. You believe you can "help", and I'm almost embarrassingly eager to accept ..... until you tell me what you see as the problems. It's then immediately obvious (to me, at least) that we'll not get anywhere.

529:/Iraq al-Manshiyya, (though Kiryat Gat was actually built on the less famous second of these villages and the satellite picture shows that some of the ruins of Faluja have not yet been covered by Kiryat Gat). There is very aggressive partisanship going on in this article, as in so many others - but the aggression does not come from me - as both these examples prove! 1190:

that - no effort has been made to dispute what I'm claiming, so there could be small details wrong). I provide it as evidence that I don't edit-war. I've attempted to insert some of those edits and been knocked back, in other cases I've not even attempted to make the edits, despite my conviction that the evidence is excellent and the events belong in the article.

438:

Paul), it's no wonder few are prepared to speak out. But some do, and it is gross to marginalise and ignore them for their courage. Would you similarily denigrate Emily Hobhouse, who insisted on travelling to Cape Town in the middle of the Boer War and blew the lid off the scandal of "Concentration camps invented by the British"?

602:

aggressive accusations over references (refs in particular, though many other things too). And yet, I'm exceptionally good and careful about references, and have been so right from my first days in the project. In an attempt to justify these allegations, all my contributions have been (and are) exhaustively and aggressively

174:, care to make a mission statement such as "what sanctions would you implement for which breaches" and how do you perceive each of the violations mentioned on the open ANIs? this is no joke, two mentors already allowed repeated violations and I see no statement by you to suggest you take this issue seriously" 614:

photograph of myself with the book in question to a neutral party). The editor in this second case can only find three "questionable" uses of references by me - and to do that, he's had to go right back to the beginning of my participation (that's where the first two edits come from). Even back when I was a

1265:

is unobtainable. It strikes me that editors of good-will such as yourself don't much suffer from problems of the kind I get, so you imagine there must be something wrong with what I'm doing (even though nobody can put a finger on it with diffs in all the CSNs, ANI, etc etc). You recognise that I have

1235:

There are three major problems with what you're trying to achieve. One is that any "friend or ally" (or even exchanger of collegiate posts in between complete disagreemnt, like yourself) is going to be harrassed with accusations aimed at their integrity (or more serious attacks, such as sock-puppetry

829:

We're supposed to be on a voyage of discovery, charting a course to a workable system of "Mentorship" for editors with problematical patterns of behaviour. (This is a process that's never worked before and isn't really expected to work this time). Your challenge is doubly difficult because you've got

637:

I'm very pleased to have you as my "Mentor" - after all, one day I might make a really serious mistake (eg use the word "chutzpah", thereby causing immense offense) and have to grovel to you to be allowed to stay on board. But you'll not find a lot of meat in the reports you're being peppered with at

601:

Presently, you will start to wonder why someone already so intimidated needs watching, and why such a trivial allegation (so easily and quickly sorted and closed over 36 hours ago) was ever passed to you. If you were to examine my record in depth, you'd see I've persistently suffered really nasty and

1189:

You are a wiser person than me (but that's not a big hurdle to clear!) I'm sorry my "list of suggested edits" appeared one-sided, but it included just the edits I fear would be most resisted on "non-legitimate" grounds, since I don't think there's much doubt about the evidence I've presented. (I say

1138:

is just the latest to have buckled under (in his case) relatively mild pressure of "you're much too buddy buddy with PR" and other such accusations (HG doesn't like them refered to as attacks). Despite the mountain of aggressive accusations against me, there's only a single instance in 10 months and

553:

page and the damage he causes to lots of different pages continues. He's recently been harrassing me on my TalkPage, but he does that constantly to all sorts of people, including admins. It would not surprise me atall if he's been following all my edits and trying to build a federal case against me.

1243:

And there's a third problem - because despite what you might think, I spend very little time arguing over edits (I refuse to edit-war, as I'm forever telling people). I put most of my effort into attempting to either act to WP:Policy or asking (demanding) people tell me what they think policy is. I

1161:

for this topic - extensive (robust) discussion finally proved that my doing this is to WP:policy after all. I've virtually stopped operating my regular account (the one I used to add a whole bunch of other material I was interested in). Doubtless when things calm down I'll return to regular editing

1075:

I don't really know you, and I was against the idea of involuntary mentorship for PR from the beginning, because I don't think he's done anything nearly serious enough to warrant it. This being said, you seem like a fair-minded and capable person and I certainly wouldn't object to your stepping in.

460:

I'm yet to meet a relgious group that didn't think itself the original version of X which everyone else had corrupted but no matter. There are multiple eyewitnesses yes? Someone else must have reports from some of them perhaps "Between Jerusalem and Hebron : Jewish settlements in the pre-state

437:

The views of JAZ are not those of an "extreme minority" as you seek to imply, they're the views of many/most practitioners of Judaism until (I think) around 1967. Jews (even more than others) suffer the very most unpleasant attacks for daring to criticise Israel (look at Finkelstein, sacked from De

1269:

However, I've said I'm agreeable, and I am. If you are open to a suggestion from me, it would be that you open a sandbox page (either your space or mine). I suggest this space has a top half (edits nearly ready to be entered into articles, waiting your approval or further suggestions) and a bottom

1098:

Sorry for the late reply. As I have no experience with you, I can't hold any opinion either way, though I would be thrilled if you could ultimately effect a change. I would have been more comfortable with someone like an administrator, who is already confirmed by the community as having the proper

1038:

I'm very happy you should be sampling my contributions and picking me up on anything I do that may be over-robust, down-right rude, lacking in logical consistency or laced with terminological inexactitudes. However, in this case (assuming I've picked up all the details correctly) we have an editor

353:

because these folk are outraged that their faith is so horrendously abused. The fact they they're real practitioners of Judaism is only further reason to hate them, top administrator have accused them of extremism and compared them directly with the real thugs of Kahane, without giving any grounds

793:

Thanks for that. You'll see I'm again being harrassed on my TalkPage on the basis that contacting you is a sign of a guilty conscience. I'm not the first or major victim by any means, much worse has happened elsewhere. I may have offered you some examples, I'll not risk doing so again. Question -

418:

By any standard of RS, the JAZ article has to be much better than this link aggressively being inserted into the lead of this self-same article. (JAZ is also in English - the specified part of Hebron.org is not). I'd like the project to work to a consistent standard of RS, but if that standard is

1257:

article in order to stop me pointing out that 'The minority view sources we're offered themselves tell us that their claims were ignored in the western media' - I wasn't editing, just pointing out something very obvious, and "demanding" the article be edited to the "Major View", not some trivial

613:

That set of 3 are only the 2nd documented charge of abusing references that's ever been made against me, coming after 10 months of my participation. (The first documented charge was utterly false, as proved in great detail, though I was virtually blocked for 6 weeks over it, and forced to send a

410:

As best I can tell, there are no serious objections to including this article (I'm now told that the Rabbi Baruch Kaplan is only one testimony of about 5 saying the same kind of things, relations between Arabs and Jews were generally good in Hebron 1929. JAZ presumably publish this one simply it

901:

I fail to understand why we need non-English in articles in en-WP. In fact, that's one of the practises that is excluding editors/being abused to exclude editors (and hence damaging articles). Our previous discussions didn't exactly fill me with confidence that translations were easy to come by

433:

You're taking the side of the bullies in this affair, the people who are ethnically cleansing the Palestinians, and want the massacre of 1929 in Hebron to be twisted to prove that Arabs are diseased. The fact that real practitioners of Judaism lived in peace with Arabs is poison to their way of

76:

The complaints reached such a pitch that (it would appear), Geni is stepping down as my mentor, and I (will) have a different one with more teeth. Allegations of "Forum Shopping" have been levelled at other people in this imbrogolio - doubtless I'll now be accused of "Mentor Shopping" - I trust

696:

Congratulations, you drew together the two sources and accurately reported what they said. It is depressing that so much time has been wasted by involved editors who have failed to grasp some of the most basic policies of the project. On a similar topic, can you suggest how I could overcome

414:

Whereas I believe I can provide very good reasons to exclude at least some of the links that are dripping with material liable to (if not intended to) incite hatred. Nobody would dream of quoting from the Institute of Historical Review (David Irving's web-site), and we should not quote from

72:

But my complaint also proves that I have been entirely compliant and non-complaining about the "ideological restrictions" imposed by my mentor, though I felt they were harmful to articles. I do not believe I have been a "difficult mentee" and (so far) I've had no indication that I have been

250:

My change was reverted once, before I saw this, I reverted again. I cannot believe we insult people in their own biographies by putting someone else's words into their mouth. (We'd not even do that if he'd made an unacceptable racist slur against Israelis - why would we do it on grounds of

235:

You never tell me what you think of my maundering justifications - but it strikes me that every "query" you've made I've answered in full, and some/much/most/all of my reasoning is valid, including on this occasion. What do you think of my putting latest additions on a TalkPage to the top?

381:

introduced by the very same editor who has just removed my JAZ reference. The reference introduced (into the lead, not just references at the end!) is non-English and appears to be the work of the notorious Hebron settlers, so unpleasant that an Israeli "senior military man" has called

1030:

I find it disturbing that anyone thinks they can link to a foreign-language video, that has an English translation, and tell us the English version is wrong according to another translation, in a different language, to which we (as I understand it) do not have access! And then

124:"I've been recently getting a tad frustrated with Geni's lack of response to the accumulative and exauhstive nature of the problem, to which i recieved a response that she not only does not see a problem, but also that she never believed there was ever a problem to begin with. 1248:

That is gross indeed on two unambiguous levels, making the guy utterly unsuitable to be used. Note, I've done nothing to interfere with the article, I'm only pointing it out in Talk, resulting in a small explosion of anger. (This "historian" also wrote a book called

251:

notability?). And I think you're wrong about the notability in English (even more so in Arabic) anyway - as I detailed above. PS - Jaakobou is complaining that you're not agreeing with him when you should ..... I trust you don't think I'm wilfully argumentative!

475:

In addition, there are said to be multiple eye-witness/participant accounts from 1929 Hebron saying that Jews and Arabs rubbed along pretty well. I only have access to one of these accounts, but there is no reason whatsoever to damn the source as a "hate-site".

411:

because it's something they recorded - something I'd call a "mark of scholarship"). It cannot be right to exclude a sample of these "positive" testimonies (particularily the one that is most accessible). There is no obvious reason why JAZ should have cheated.

1205:

are not simply partisan, but widely distrusted, and there was an RfC rejecting them as an RS. And yet, "facts" from these very dubious sources continue to be vigorously shoe-horned into articles, while much better (even "official") RS material is ruthlessly

94:"If you're to be my mentor, it's important you know that various subtle and not-so-subtle pressures will be applied to you ..... if you think I'm trying to bully you now, be aware that I'm a pussy-cat compared with some of the other players on this field!" 314:, a core principle of the encyclopedia). Note - it's a blocking offence (likely perma-blocking on the first occasion) to quote from hate-sites, and this one is much, much worse than, for instance, David Irving and the Institute of Historical Review. 621:

These persistent claims that "PR cheats over references" are not only untrue, they're often from people who really do insert unsuitable references. This one (Glubb/Wingate) probably comes from people who have successfully edit-warred the reference

982:

I'll take your word that it is possible to get translations of minor languages (7 million speakers of this one worldwide?) - but only if you can point me to a quick and hassle-free way to do it eg - I'd very much like to know what goes on at

441:

It's not even as if the list of Jewish groups highly critical of Israel wasn't long - the very name "JewsAgainstZionism" is used by at least two different groups, both from the strongly Torah-believing practising religious, a small minority.

373:- another editor (a seriously knowledgeable and productive one) has multiple issues with the editing of this particular article, and references my introducing the testimony of Rabbi Baruch Kaplan as likely having been proper. My reference, 1258:"Minor View". (Another editor has told me that "the world bought the Palestinian propaganda" on this subject - and blusters when I point out that the article most certainly doesn't match what he's just claimed to be "The World View"!). 893:

I don't know who gush-shalom.org are so I can't really comment. Idealy the name should be the two english names (don't try and cover geographical area without a cite so drop first world and middle east claim) and the arabic and hebrew

1000:. The contents are clearly very important, since relevant discussions at this TalkPage are being archived in as little as 4.5 days, barely before they're completed - but the diff I've given you above is from June, over 90 days ago. 324:

come from a hate-site, meaning JAZ. So Jaakobou (who has big problems with the English language anyway) knows all about this particular rule - but is unable to recognise the concept of "hate-site". No wonder he causes such damage!

136:"Geni is aware that PR has not made any "breaches of 2RR" (perhaps one) and she's managed to come up with a suggestion that circumvents all the raised issues. in retrospect i'm not entirely sure Geni's proposals are in good faith 84:

to the AN/I in progress before I became aware that Geni was being forced to stand aside by the barrage. I trust this affair will not stop her from offering her careful services to others and to the project and have awarded her a

721:

has been removed, despited it apparently being 3 times more popular (even in the English-speaking world) than "Battle of Jenin". The latter gets 13,400 hits by the Hated Google Test, and the former 30,900, over 3 times as many.

357:

Ultimately, it comes down to how WP should balance race-hatred against protests against race-hatred. I think WP should stamp out the former and big up the latter. But I know I'm in a tiny minority, I earned a 1 month ban for

1139:

1500 edits of me doing anything anyone has has bothered to quote and consider offensive, and the community is split on whether it amounts to a "legal threat". A plea of "not guilty" to the charge of "making a legal threat"

1053:

I've only bothered with this article because a recent entry to Talk was held up as proof that it's originator was a "good editor". Do you want an AfD on whether an article on this kid has any business in the encyclopedia?

231:

in order to make it appear that Saeb Erekat is a liar. So BLP issues too, the fact that those who carried out these killings did a cover-up and we'll never know the number of deaths should *not* mean that we jeer at

1236:

or meat-puppetry, as you and others have discovered). Secondly, with illiteracy and edit-warring rife in some of the articles that most need attention, careful editing is often a complete waste of time. Good edits

756:

was raised on this exact subject less than 2 weeks ago, it is clear that some editors (involved and uninvolved) take serious objection to it. I'm informing you of this in case you think that normal rules apply.

212:, we don't use the English name for the same event. The Arabic name apparently translates as "Jenin Massacre". Under no circumstances should we force on Erekat the name prefered by the perpetrators. What next, 1133:

Hi Geni - all previous offers of "Mentorship" for me have been torpedoed by a blizzard of accusations, complaints and even administrator actions against those who dare to deal with me in a collegiate manner.

77:

nobody thinks it's me behaving this badly. Most people would be very, very puzzled why such desperate efforts are being made to muzzle me, and why the evidence is so trivial as to be effectively non-existent.

554:

Geni has apparently puzzled over two of the edits I've made - but as far as I can tell they were entirely proper (well, one was a mistake, but I'd already lain down and accepted the kicking I got for it).

406:

As my mentor, I'm looking to you to guide me through reaching some kind of consensus of editors (perhaps uninvolved ones?) about, in this case, the relative RS level of two articles for inclusion in this

346:

I don't wish to carry on using your Talk for long and potentially excited defenses of edits I make, which is why I've created this page. (It has another advantage, if I talk rubbish, you can tell me so).

1227:

Something I noticed when HG was offering himself as my mentor - it was already clear (to me) that personal harrassment of anyone dealing with me in a collegiate fashion would be a significant factor.

686:

A briefing released by the Israeli embassy in Washington claimed the scale of attacks by the palatines combined with the lack of cooperation on the part of Yasser Arafat made the operation necessary.

967:

to provide an opinion on the translation. At the same time it should be made very clear that what the source is so the phraseing should be along the lines of "TV station X reported that whatever".

879:

over including it. I think it's highly pertinent to the whole event. How about you? Note that I'm only using a quite small part of it, but there's no question of my distorting it's significance.

1240:, even if they're not edit-warred out immediately. (I think I just caught one of the editors I'm thinking of demanding to be free to edit on topics they'd just told us they knew nothing about!). 1091:

I also am not big on mentorship as a concept. If you can make it useful, great. If it has no effect, my expectations will be met. I have no objection to you being the mentor. Good luck.

310:

of very good Jewish-Arab relations in 1929 Hebron and then, in the very next edit, put a hate-site reference into the lead. (And of course, the reference is non-English and incompatible with

598:

to the person who spotted it. Shame, because the rest of my edit is good (more detail if you want it) - but I'm much too frightened to try and improve the article now I've slipped up once.

862:"Alternative names are always shown, especially in cases like this, where the Hated Google Test shows the alternative name to be 3 times more popular than the article name we're using." 886:

PS - as soon as I posted you the above I discovered I'm being accused of "edit-warring" over use of the word "massacre" - but you weren't to know how very sensitive people can be!

684: 1114:

You seemn like a reasonable editor, and I support your effort. Also, Palestine Remembered seems overall like a fairly reasonable person, despite our differences of opinion. --

415:

www.hebron.org.il for the same reason). Hebron.org have every reason to cheat, their presence in Hebron seems to be such a huge problem that Israel is evicting some of them.

258:

The words are not being put in his mouth they are the title of the section. The level of awareness amoung the wider english speaking population of the world of what

1039:

who is simply driving a coach and horses through WP:Policy. My protests at this behaviour may be lacking in subtlety - but all other protests are being ignored too.

909:

It is generaly useful to know what those involved in conflicts call the thing. Anyway that is a long term aim not something we need worry about in the short term.

1146:

Having said all of which, and without knowing anything about you whatsoever, I'd be delighted to have you as my "Mentor". All it requires from you is to examine

591:

Campaign against the Japanese - he'd earlier 1939 been sacked from Palestine by the British for siding with the Zionists in direct opposition to British policy).

69:- I made it then (and show it y'all now) only as proof that, to my mind, Geni was actually harsh and "biased against me" and not "biased towards me", as alleged. 426:

Again it doesn't matter JAZ are an extream minority view. And thus should not be brought up outside their own article. If there are other accounts link to them.

399:

The rightness or otherwise of their POV isn't that important. They are in a fairly small minority thus it is best to avoid bringing them up in general articles.

1263:"improving collaborative interactions, anticipating and satisfying the objections of other editors, and strengthening the use and critique of reliable sources" 1246:"Until the Arab armies invaded Israel on the very day of its birth, May 15, 1948, no quarter whatsoever had ever been given to a Jew who fell into Arab hands." 975:

I'm not quite sure what to make of this ... the WP page you reference is not even a guide-line (I don't think?). Are you telling me it trumps WP core policy

221: 753: 1193:

Events of the past will indeed be left behind. It will less easy to forget some editing patterns .... repeated efforts have been made to conflate the

672:

It is important to describe as exactly as posible what the sources say and who is saying it thus I would suggest something along the following lines

651:

I would suggest staying well away from this. Even I'm not crazy enough to get seriously involved. As for Deir Yassin massacre disscuss on talk page.

1182:. One condition of my taking the role of mentorship is that as far as possible past events on Knowledge are left in the past. Is this acceptable. 960: 794:

would it be inflammatory of me to revert it with the summary "Remove nonsense"? That's almost as strong as I've ever dared to say in the past.

1150:

and express your opinion on whether I'm indeed working to improve articles. (Be prepared for even more bitter flack as I attempt to carry out

939:

Hi Geni - thanks for warning me that "terrorism-info.org.il is not a valid source thus not worth getting translated" - why is it classed as a

138: 126: 50:'s biography cannot use the word "massacre" for a particular event (even as it's implied he lied over it) and the very well known web-site 176: 243:

Great Patriotic War has a reasonable recognition as the Soviet name for WW2. Jenin Massacre has almost no recognition as the arabic name.

713:- the consensus reached (and underlined by yourself above) that "three suicide bombings" was Israel's reasoning for attacking Jenin has 1270:

half (issues with articles that are not ready to be dealt with as yet). Shall I voluntarily limit myself to 50 issues at any one time?

322:"no one in the yeshiva ever told me it was dangerous to go by myself among the Arabs. We just lived with them, and got along very well" 81: 875:

and tell me what you think. Note - Jaakobou, Kyaa and Tewfik have all confirmed it's genuine, but they seem to have a severe case of

191:

WARNING - this page is structured completely differently from the regular WIKIPEDIA fashion, it has the last contribution at the top.

41:

which suggested to me you were toeing a hard-line ideological attitude that would have a significantly distorting effect on articles"

1140: 525:, it's clear that nobody doubts my claim it happened as described. And nobody seriously doubts that Kiryat Gat is the same place as 419:

being dragged down to such a low level in this particular article by partisans, then it cannot be right to exclude the JAZ article.

155: 778:(What do you think of my new sig - do you think it will help reduce some of the really serious harrassment I've had in the past?). 963:

for why this has to be the case) however translation issues being what they are I would suggest choseing some random people from

571:. Google search suggest the guy was anti-zionist so you had better have some very good refs to back the claim that he was pro. 37: 916:

Ah, great. I'm testing this thing we're supposed to be running, but there's a possibility it might start to work quite well!

359: 262:

is called in arabic is limited. Just accept that Jenin Massacre is not going to be used as the name for event on wikipedia.

159: 55: 39: 1008: 1151: 1032: 998: 995: 992: 988: 771: 698: 318: 229:"The UN put the final death toll at 52 Palestinians ... and it concluded that no civilians were killed deliberately." 317:

And when I looked again, I realised there was something even more bizarre and disturbing going on - Jaakobou claims

1201:(an RS, the only kind of thing we should be using in articles, at least for "surprising" claims). Sources such as 1046:

Zee problem is that the english translations are not original and are thus no more valid than any we do ourselves.

594:

This mistake of mine (possibly the first I've made in a year and several thousand edits?) was reverted and I have

513:

Which reference? Everyone the slightest bit interested knows that Kiryat Gat was built in the "Faluja pocket" and

1179: 1170:

I don’t think it is possible to make such a judgement based on a single page. You are making an effort to follow

812:

to an editor who has suffered sanctions for (I think) being angry and making a nuisance of himself over policy?

809: 770:

In an already heated environment I've made two edits you might consider inflammatory or worse ..... please check

868: 857: 834: 749: 745: 741: 607: 603: 568: 522: 282: 1237: 623: 1228: 595: 338:

I can understand wanting to link to a personal account but a less ah controversial site would be preferable.

714: 300:'s reference appears to come from the people whom an Israeli "senior military man" accused of carrying out 1020: 220:? In this case, we know (or strongly suspect, anyway) it's actually the regular name in English too - the 947:, and is not subject to archiving (or has an archive period over 20 times longer than some discussions?) 680: 204:

I find that really difficult to accept, perhaps to the extent of saying that you're wrong. We refer to

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Here are the 2 "good" edits of mine that I felt had been blocked for non-encyclopedic reasons - a

34:, accusing (her?) of not doing her job. I have been forced to make my own complaints against Geni 306:

It beggars belief that he could remove (from the reference listing at the bottom of the page) an

1141:

evinced only an accusation that pleading "Not Guilty" made me an even more recalciturn offender

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archiving took place, with some comments less than 2 weeks old being summararily disappeared.

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First edit fine. Second it is generaly not a good idea to chnage section titles on tlak pages.

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The name the subject uses is not normaly a reason to use that name as the title of a section.

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like this one, apparently suggesting it's one of the least serious problems in the article?

374: 307: 59: 1253:- I've no idea what's in there, but I think I can guess!). You were canvassed to go to the 744:

and turned into a near invisible sub-section. This action was part of a sequence, in which

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Geni, greetings. FYI a simmering dispute is heating up between Jaakobou and PR. Take care.

450: 687: 632:"despite copious evidence of their blatant lying ... refuting their fictitious 'massacre'" 8: 209: 30:- a campaign of harrassment in e-mail and in public has been launched against my mentor, 984: 940: 1147: 1012: 964: 550: 224:

gives "Jenin Massacre" 30,900 hits and "Battle of Jenin" less than 1/3 as many, 13,400.

227:

There are many serious problems with this biography, straightforward lies in there eg

152:"edit summary ... is something that the mentorship should discuss rather than dismiss" 443: 378: 303:"a pogrom against the Arabs of Hebron, with no provocations on the Palestinian side." 205: 1194: 1107: 580: 434:

thinking, and they apply heavy pressure to stop that evidence ever coming to light.

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a pogrom against the Arabs of Hebron, with no provocations on the Palestinian side.

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skills, but I suppose it is worth another go to get PR in line with WP norms...

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I don't know about the bulldozer driver bit but in line with articles such as

683:. In giving his reasons for the action Ariel Sharon listed 3 suicide bombings. 1158: 297: 165: 143: 131: 119: 902:(certainly not into minority languages, it's bad enough getting them out!). 370: 1175: 1162:

and this onerous duty you've volunteered for can be laid aside and buried.

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However, to try and kick this thing off again, tell me what you think of

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find an article quoting "an historian" who says things such as :

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I'm absolutely convinced that the other clip belongs in there, diff

350: 676: 808:- is there any objection to my disagreeing with the community and 1220: 1135: 782:(New Sig for PalestineRemembered) 10:40, 20 September 2007 (UTC) 588: 538: 1202: 1197:(owned by the Moonies and operated to save the world) with the 1015:. As for the links to terrorism-info.org.il I doubt they pass 154:(this after just days, 7th to the 9th Nov 2007!) That comment 849:

popular alturnative names should be mentioned in the opening.

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These are the words with which I greeted Geni on 15th Sept

630:. That very article from CAMERA contains such material as 113: 624:"A Study in Palestinian Duplicity and Media Indifference" 1011:. For translations as I said try asking a few people in 65:

The complaint I've been forced to make against Geni is

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but the one sidedness suggests you need to consider

362:

against the constant ethnic labelling that goes on.

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terrorism-info.org.il not worth getting translated.

959:Non english sources are allowed on wikipedia (see 158:- but evidence for its existence is still visible 1251:""Israel Explores Deir Yassin Blood Libel, 1969" 1007:If you want something closer to policy then see 961:Knowledge:WikiProject Countering systemic bias 1009:Knowledge:Citing_sources#When_you_add_content 562: 505:case do you have acess to the ref being used? 333: 349:Defenders of Israel have huge problems with 765: 58:and (in addition?) cannot be cited for the 1223:is warned of the danger of being my mentor 549:Jaakobou refused to play ball with your 281:Why did you remove mention of policemen 991:). The articles in question are these: 869:the interview with the bulldozer driver 114:Interference with the Mentoring process 14: 856:Thankyou. I've taken your advice and 1070: 80:Please note, I posted the following 23: 1261:In other words, each of your aims 955:Talk:Hussam_Abdo#The_YouTube_video 825:Bitten off more than you can chew? 667: 24: 1286: 802:) 15:17, 20 September 2007 (UTC) 1129:Mentorship offer kindly received 319:that Rabbi Baruch Kaplan's words 1186:00:38, 15 September 2007 (UTC) 1180:Knowledge:Writing for the enemy 1166:23:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC) 1157:I'm sorry to be operating as a 1109:19:48, 17 September 2007 (UTC) 1095:02:38, 16 September 2007 (UTC) 1087:14:19, 15 September 2007 (UTC) 1080:12:33, 15 September 2007 (UTC) 1050:21:22, 16 September 2007 (UTC) 1043:20:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC) 1027:19:24, 16 September 2007 (UTC) 1004:18:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC) 971:19:35, 15 September 2007 (UTC) 951:14:21, 17 September 2007 (UTC) 913:22:22, 18 September 2007 (UTC) 906:22:14, 18 September 2007 (UTC) 898:22:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC) 890:22:01, 18 September 2007 (UTC) 853:21:42, 18 September 2007 (UTC) 841:21:26, 18 September 2007 (UTC) 790:13:26, 20 September 2007 (UTC) 699:blind and ungrammatical reverts 692:01:55, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 655:19:48, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 575:23:32, 29 September 2007 (UTC) 509:00:04, 30 September 2007 (UTC) 496: 1274:08:07, 11 September 2007 (UTC) 1213:08:03, 15 September 2007 (UTC) 1118:21:28, 17 September 2007 (UTC) 1058:21:51, 16 September 2007 (UTC) 943:at the top of the TalkPage of 920:22:25, 18 September 2007 (UTC) 883:21:58, 18 September 2007 (UTC) 816:07:13, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 761:08:22, 28 September 2007 (UTC) 726:06:38, 28 September 2007 (UTC) 705:11:02, 26 September 2007 (UTC) 663:19:57, 27 September 2007 (UTC) 646: 642:09:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC) 533:09:39, 30 September 2007 (UTC) 384:one example of their behaviour 182: 103:I owe the community an apology 13: 1: 1152:further urgently needed edits 308:excellent eye-witness account 985:the articles referenced here 610:of that particular set of 3. 545:14:56, 1 October 2007 (UTC) 465:21:36, 5 October 2007 (UTC) 457:18:48, 5 October 2007 (UTC) 430:15:19, 5 October 2007 (UTC) 423:07:20, 5 October 2007 (UTC) 403:23:51, 4 October 2007 (UTC) 342:00:14, 3 October 2007 (UTC) 292:For the reasons I explained 288:01:00, 4 October 2007 (UTC) 276: 255:15:32, 8 October 2007 (UTC) 247:11:26, 8 October 2007 (UTC) 240:06:56, 7 October 2007 (UTC) 200:03:50, 7 October 2007 (UTC) 109:09:22, 31 October 2007 (UTC) 99:12:08, 12 October 2007 (UTC) 7: 1238:will be turned into garbage 1033:boast of what a good editor 579:Simple mistake, I confused 558:22:25, 2 October 2007 (UTC) 480:21:54, 5 October 2007 (UTC) 392:10:12, 3 October 2007 (UTC) 366:06:56, 3 October 2007 (UTC) 329:07:20, 4 October 2007 (UTC) 266:21:44, 8 October 2007 (UTC) 10: 1291: 717:. And the "also known as" 681:Operation Defensive Shield 604:scrutinised and challenged 567:Please don't. For example 563:adding content without ref 351:www.jewsagainstzionism.com 334:www.jewsagainstzionism.com 82:"Mentor" Geni under attack 941:"very interesting source" 606:- see my highly credible 519:"emptied" not "abandoned" 449:And fortunately, in this 375:is a vastly better source 1154:detailed at this page). 1035:they are in consequence. 847:Indian Rebellion of 1857 766:Please check these edits 740:TalkPage has today been 156:mysteriously disappeared 54:are guilty of having an 18:User:PalestineRemembered 1083:I'm cool with that. :P 461:period" by Yosef Kats. 56:"extreme minority view" 1159:single purpose account 864:- I trust you approve! 177:19:13, 11 October 2007 139:01:01, 12 October 2007 1019:given the content of 596:coweringly apologised 127:07:59, 8 October 2007 60:eye-witness testimony 1272:PalestineRemembered 1211:PalestineRemembered 1164:PalestineRemembered 1056:PalestineRemembered 1041:PalestineRemembered 1002:PalestineRemembered 949:PalestineRemembered 918:PalestineRemembered 904:PalestineRemembered 888:PalestineRemembered 881:PalestineRemembered 839:PalestineRemembered 800:PalestineRemembered 734:section you created 210:Great Patriotic War 1148:this evidence page 1013:Category:User he-N 965:Category:User_he-N 810:posting my support 715:again been removed 52:JewsAgainstZionism 1071:Re: PR mentorship 860:with the summary 626:into the article 222:Hated Google Test 134:of mentor Geni - 1282: 1195:Washington Times 1104: 1085:Kyaa the Catlord 659:Oh, bother .... 587:(famous for the 150:what to do with 122:of mentor Geni: 1290: 1289: 1285: 1284: 1283: 1281: 1280: 1279: 1255:Battle of Jenin 1225: 1199:Washington Post 1131: 1102: 1073: 957: 945:Battle of Jenin 937: 873:whole interview 827: 768: 742:interfered with 738:Battle of Jenin 670: 668:Battle of Jenin 649: 628:Battle of Jenin 565: 499: 336: 279: 187: 116: 28:Statement by PR 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 1288: 1278: 1277: 1276: 1275: 1267: 1259: 1241: 1224: 1218: 1217: 1216: 1215: 1214: 1207: 1191: 1130: 1127: 1126: 1125: 1124: 1123: 1122: 1121: 1120: 1119: 1072: 1069: 1068: 1067: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1036: 989:with this diff 980: 956: 953: 936: 933: 932: 931: 930: 929: 928: 927: 926: 925: 924: 923: 922: 921: 884: 877:WP:IDONTLIKEIT 865: 826: 823: 822: 821: 820: 819: 818: 817: 806:Something else 767: 764: 763: 762: 727: 719:Jenin Massacre 707: 706: 669: 666: 665: 664: 648: 645: 644: 643: 635: 619: 611: 599: 592: 564: 561: 560: 559: 535: 534: 498: 495: 494: 493: 492: 491: 490: 489: 488: 487: 486: 485: 484: 483: 482: 481: 473: 447: 439: 435: 416: 412: 408: 394: 393: 367: 355: 347: 335: 332: 331: 330: 315: 278: 275: 274: 273: 272: 271: 270: 269: 268: 267: 233: 225: 218:Final Solution 186: 181: 180: 179: 172:User:Zscout370 163: 148:User:Kendrick7 141: 129: 115: 112: 111: 110: 100: 90: 78: 74: 70: 63: 44: 15: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1287: 1273: 1268: 1264: 1260: 1256: 1252: 1247: 1242: 1239: 1234: 1233: 1232: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1222: 1212: 1208: 1204: 1200: 1196: 1192: 1188: 1187: 1185: 1181: 1177: 1173: 1169: 1168: 1167: 1165: 1160: 1155: 1153: 1149: 1144: 1142: 1137: 1117: 1116:Steve, Sm8900 1113: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1108: 1106: 1105: 1097: 1096: 1094: 1090: 1089: 1088: 1086: 1081: 1079: 1057: 1052: 1051: 1049: 1045: 1044: 1042: 1037: 1034: 1029: 1028: 1026: 1022: 1018: 1014: 1010: 1006: 1005: 1003: 999: 996: 993: 990: 986: 981: 978: 977:verifiability 974: 973: 972: 970: 966: 962: 952: 950: 946: 942: 919: 915: 914: 912: 908: 907: 905: 900: 899: 897: 892: 891: 889: 885: 882: 878: 874: 871:- or see the 870: 866: 863: 859: 858:made the edit 855: 854: 852: 848: 844: 843: 842: 840: 836: 831: 815: 811: 807: 804: 803: 801: 798:(New Sig for 797: 792: 791: 789: 785: 784: 783: 781: 776: 774: 772: 760: 755: 751: 747: 743: 739: 735: 731: 728: 725: 720: 716: 712: 709: 708: 704: 700: 695: 694: 693: 691: 688: 685: 682: 679:Israel began 678: 673: 662: 658: 657: 656: 654: 641: 636: 633: 629: 625: 620: 617: 612: 609: 605: 600: 597: 593: 590: 586: 582: 578: 577: 576: 574: 570: 557: 552: 551:clarify Jenin 548: 547: 546: 544: 540: 532: 528: 524: 520: 516: 512: 511: 510: 508: 504: 479: 474: 471: 467: 466: 464: 459: 458: 456: 452: 448: 445: 440: 436: 432: 431: 429: 425: 424: 422: 417: 413: 409: 405: 404: 402: 398: 397: 396: 395: 391: 388: 385: 380: 376: 372: 371:this exchange 368: 365: 361: 356: 352: 348: 345: 344: 343: 341: 328: 323: 320: 316: 313: 312:verifiability 309: 305: 304: 299: 298:User:Jaakobou 295: 291: 290: 289: 287: 283: 265: 261: 257: 256: 254: 249: 248: 246: 242: 241: 239: 234: 230: 226: 223: 219: 215: 211: 207: 203: 202: 201: 199: 194: 192: 185: 178: 175: 173: 167: 166:User:Jaakobou 164: 161: 157: 153: 149: 145: 144:User:Jaakobou 142: 140: 137: 133: 132:User:Jaakobou 130: 128: 125: 121: 120:User:Jaakobou 118: 117: 108: 104: 101: 98: 95: 91: 88: 83: 79: 75: 71: 68: 64: 61: 57: 53: 49: 45: 42: 40: 38: 33: 29: 26: 25: 19: 1262: 1250: 1245: 1226: 1156: 1145: 1132: 1100: 1082: 1074: 958: 938: 861: 832: 828: 805: 777: 769: 729: 718: 710: 674: 671: 650: 638:the moment. 631: 566: 536: 500: 497:another edit 386: 360:this protest 337: 321: 302: 280: 259: 228: 195: 190: 188: 169: 151: 135: 123: 102: 93: 35: 27: 647:WP:BADSITES 214:Elie Wiesel 184:Saeb Erekat 168:to mentor: 62:of a Rabbi. 48:Palestinian 36:"two edits 146:to mentor 73:difficult. 987:(entered 969:Genisock2 835:this edit 754:This AN/I 515:al-Faluja 369:PS - see 286:Genisock2 277:policemen 206:Khruschev 32:User:Geni 1206:excised. 677:29 March 608:rebuttal 451:one case 444:See this 407:article. 379:this one 260:anything 216:and the 208:and the 87:barnstar 1221:User:HG 1172:WP:CITE 1136:User:HG 1093:GRBerry 1078:Eleland 736:at the 589:Chindit 585:Wingate 468:C'mon, 1203:CAMERA 1103:Tewfik 894:names. 732:- The 527:Faluja 1176:WP:RS 1017:WP:RS 616:newby 583:with 581:Glubb 377:than 16:< 1184:Geni 1174:and 1048:Geni 1025:Geni 1021:this 997:and 911:Geni 896:Geni 851:Geni 788:Geni 773:and 750:this 748:and 746:this 730:News 711:News 690:Geni 653:Geni 573:Geni 569:here 543:Talk 523:this 517:was 507:Geni 503:this 470:Geni 463:Geni 428:Geni 401:Geni 340:Geni 294:here 264:Geni 245:Geni 232:him. 198:Geni 160:here 67:here 675:On 501:In 1143:. 994:, 814:PR 796:PR 780:PR 759:PR 724:PR 703:PR 661:PR 640:PR 556:PR 541:| 539:HG 531:PR 478:PR 455:PR 421:PR 390:PR 364:PR 327:PR 296:- 253:PR 238:PR 193:) 107:PR 97:PR 1023:. 979:? 284:? 189:( 170:" 162:. 89:. 43:.

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