452:, I put that line there primarily to make the current headings for the "style" categories make sense. I figured that if someone wasn't familiar with aikido, "Styles founded by direct students of Ueshiba" might make more sense if they'd just seen that Morihei Ueshiba was the founder. Right now, we have links to the article on Ueshiba both on the "founder" line and in the style headings. It seems to me that a general template on aikido should have one link to that article, and should indicate that he's the founder. What do you think - if we change the style headings to be more "generational" or "depth of lineage" based, does the "founder" line then make more sense?
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generations away from
Osensei for the founder of a style - so Tohei sensei would be generation one, a style founded by a direct student of Tohei sensei would be generation two, and a style founded by a student of Tohei's student would be third generation? That makes sense to me (assuming we can figure out the lineages for all of the styles). If we can come up with a better approach, we might want to bring the language in the
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founded by direct students of O'Sensei," "Other styles descended from O'Sensei," "Styles unrelated to O'Sensei"? Those might not be the right words, but you get the idea - try to describe the distinction without implying any distinction in importance. My primary hesitation is that it may make for a very cluttered looking template.
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I'm fine with different language for the "style" groupings - especially if there's somewhere people can go to easily get more complete definitions. "Generations" makes as much sense as any to me. Could you do an explanation of what "generation" means? I'm assuming we're talking about the number of
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That's a great step in the right direction. A couple of suggestions are that wikipedia prefers not using titles or honorifics, so it should be "Ueshiba" instead of "Osensei," and it would also be great if the categories were less wordy, but that will be difficult. Keep up the good work, though, now
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or something along those lines. In fact, the template might be more useful with an extra layer to separate 2nd generation from 3rd and later generation styles. If you're concerned about an explanation for the meaning of 'generation' within the context of this template, a disclaimer-like line could
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next to the heading "founder" seems a little redundant and not that useful; and 2) I foresee some problems with drawing limits on the content of the template in the "concepts" section and the unlabelled bottom section, and for that reason there should be a documentation page with guidelines for the
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I think those are reasonable. It certainly makes the purpose of the divisions clearer (and it does seem like a reasonable standard of categorization). I should point out that the apostrophe should be replaced by a hyphen (and, technically, the O should have a macron over it). Another possibility it
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The distinction seems reasonable to me, but I've been wondering if there are better words to use than "major" and "minor". (I study one of the styles classified as "minor," so I certainly have no personal interest minimizing their importance.) What would you think about using the headings "Styles
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I've taken a stab at revising the category headings. They don't look as bad as I'd thought they might. If another approach makes more sense - like categorizing styles by lineage - I'm all for it. But maybe this will keep us out of trouble for now. Thanks for flagging the potential problem - and
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I agree with your point about the "concepts" category and the miscellaneous line at the bottom. The later seems particularly likely to become a grab bag of miscellaneous links. One thing that might help would be to think about the kinds of things that might go at the bottom, and then create
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template. I'm going to create the documentation page with some categories for guidelines now, but I'm going to leave them blank, as well as refrain from making any changes to the template itself until there has been some discussion on my suggestions. Please let me know what you think.
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For "minor" styles it says " number of organizations independent from the major styles of aikido have developed some of which are notable in their own right through their size or historical association. These "minor styles" are distinct from independent
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First, let me reiterate that I like the idea behind this template, so the following thoughts, where critical, are in the interest of improving the template. First, the current 'style' categories are:
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If what we're really getting at here is lineage to
Ueshiba, maybe these concepts could be expressed in fewer words. Perhaps the language of lineage would be useful here. The categories could be:
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to categorize by lineage (so, for example, one heading could be "Tomiki styles", which would include
Shodokan and Fugakukai). Related topics like Daito-ryu and aikijujutsu could go in a footer. —
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article in line with it. Right now it's still categorizing styles as "major," "minor" and "other" - which seems more likely to generate controversy than anything we're talking about doing here.
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up to the top of the template under the heading "founder." That should make the headings for the different styles a bit clearer for readers who aren't familiar with aikido.
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I don't know how one would decide which concepts to include, and which to exclude. Would there be any way to make it a list of unique, characteristic or defining concepts?
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We need to establish a consensus about which few to include there, otherwise it will be a mess of every sensei who decided to be independent after a political dispute.
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462:. We could create a "Parenthood" category or a "Related martial arts" category and include everything shown under "Parenthood" in the info box at the top of the
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It defines an "other" style as one that uses the name "aikido" in one way or another, but doesn't have a direct lineage back to
Morihei Ueshiba.
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Is there some sort of objective criteria for dividing these into "major" and "minor" styles? It seems like it's bound to piss somebody off. —
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O.k., I've change "Osensei" to "Ueshiba" in the headings. I'm going to let it sit for a while before making any more changes myself.
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please feel free to fix any new problems I've created! (I have very little pride of authorship.)
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That looks very good to me - I'd go live with it. It's clearer than the current version.
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and suggestions to help improve this article. If you think something is missing, please
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that it's focused on lineage this has become a really infomative template.
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The way it defines a "major" style is one that has it's own headquarters (
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be included in smaller text just below template header, just like in the
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The other two things I wanted to suggest are 1), that the full link to
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has an "Origin" section and a "Techniques" section.
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