1292:"), only 4 of them actually show bib overalls, and one of these four is small, and only shows the back of a man which may be wearing some early bib-overalls, or he could be wearing a set of trousers with crossed suspenders. OF course, it may be the other guy in the picture who is supposed to be wearing overalls; if not for the other pictures to judge by, a person who didn't know might think the guy in a jacket and trousers was wearing "overalls". The other ad, as I've said, shows a man in coveralls. Rosie the Riviter is wearing coveralls; I don't see anything resembling bib overalls in that image. The "photograph of a woman in a factory wearing overalls" very clearly shows a woman wearing coveralls, with full sleeves rolled up. The article says it's about bib overalls, so why are all these other pictures in here captioned "overalls"? It's just guaranteed to confuse the hell out of anyone who actually comes here because they want to learn what bib overalls are. What it sounds like to me (tho it's hard to tell) is that "overalls" were once basically work jeans with suspender straps. Later they were expanded to basically become coveralls. What we TODAY call "overalls" in the US, bib-and-brace overalls, were a subvariety that came along eventually. They are one specific TYPE of overalls, while "overalls" in general morphed into "coveralls", leaving bibs as the "overalls". Perhaps coveralls are still called "overalls" in some places, but this is specifically about BIB overalls. Everything else belongs in boiler suit, except a brief and CLEAR description of where the term "overalls" comes from.
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opinion, but at it seems to me that to conclude from those two editorials alone, that it is outright "socially unacceptable" for males to wear overalls in the 21st century is a bit of long stretch! And a glance at "like" counters on social media for men showcasing overalls outfits immediately suggest that it is not true, but yes yes I know, no social media or blogs as sources; The fact of the matter is, males do wear overalls fashionably - including your's truly - and suffer little to no social push-back for it. Can we at least give it a balance disputed tag or settle for a less strong wording? Also, the last tidbid about this alleged social unacceptability being "likely as a result of the feminist movement" comes completely out of nowhere, that is not in the sources at all.
1262:, which isn't the same. But I'm not even sure what's being described; it then goes on to mention various transformations, but I can't really make heads or tails of it. And of course, the image showing "Union-alls" pretty clearly shows a man wearing coveralls/boilersuit, NOT what we call "overalls" here, which are bib-and-brace overalls. I think bib-and-brace ought to have its own article, or boilersuit, coverall, overall ought to be combined, with a decent-length section covering just bib-and-brace alone, since they have developed a very significant history and cult around them of their own. I think the combined article with a short separate one for bibs would be best, with "overalls" directing to bibs, with a link to the page on coveralls.
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49805364. Museum,, Fashion
Institute of Technology (New York, N.Y.). Denim : fashion's frontier. McClendon, Emma,. New Haven. ISBN 9780300219142. OCLC 930798077. Douglas., Gunn, (2012). Vintage menswear : a collection from the Vintage Showroom. Sims, Josh., Luckett, Roy., Vintage Showroom. London: Laurence King. ISBN 1780672039. OCLC 866622270. 1973-, Kyi, Tanya Lloyd, (2011). The lowdown on denim. Hanmer, Clayton, 1978-. Toronto: Annick Press. ISBN 9781554514151. OCLC 825770364. Things that liberate : an Australian feminist wunderkammer. Bartlett, Alison., Henderson, Margaret. Newcastle upon Tyne, U.K. ISBN 9781443867405. OCLC 891082123. --
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set of coveralls (none of which was mentioned on the boilersuit page that I noticed), and a picture of Rosie the
Riveter "wearing Union-Alls", which look just like coveralls to me. If these WERE "union-alls", when did they become "overalls", and when did the bib-and-brace style pick up? I really can't glean much meaningful from this except mroe questions.
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distinct, a loose coat. The OED says this, and looking at UK shopping sites will confirm it. Overall, coverall, and boilersuit are used. I've seen the term "bib & brace" rather than "dungarees" used in workwear (not fashion) sites, but "overalls" are coats, e.g. white lab coats, never bib & brace. See
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image. Which as a bonus for
Shortalls also the classic Train engineer's style grey and white stripes. This is a bonus due to age group of the style are also heavily into dress up. So the Image served 2 purposes for the article, with out a need to display anything. and NO argument has been put against
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There is (British) archive film of a locomotive fitter sweeping the soot off the inside of a firebox during a routine service. To do this he got right inside, entering feet first through the firehole door, which is only just large enough for a man. It is quite obvious from this footage that any other
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Dungaree: In plural. Originally
British. A type of overalls consisting of trousers with an extra piece of cloth covering the chest, held in place by a strap over each shoulder; (later also frequently) a casual garment resembling this, usually made from denim, corduroy, or heavy cotton, and typically
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known as "overalls", but which are actually coveralls in modern usage, ought to be covered on the boilersuit page, not here. It's just confusing. I came here to read about bib-and-brace overalls, yet I'm faced with a description of early "overalls" and "union-alls" showing a image of a man wearing a
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I've never heard "overall" or "overalls" used to mean a full body (arms, legs, and torso covered), one-piece garment. To me, such a garment would be "coveralls" (or perhaps a "coverall"), which I would consider a type of jumpsuit. "Overalls," to me, are a pair of denim or twill pants (US usage) with
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Sullivan, James, 1965 November (2006). Jeans : a cultural history of an
American icon. New York: Gotham Books. ISBN 1592402143. OCLC 62697070. 1950-, Brown, Carrie, (2002). Rosie's mom : forgotten women workers of the First World War. Boston, MA: Northeastern University Press. ISBN 1555535356. OCLC
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The distinction seems pretty simple to me, but apparently there is some confusion on this. If people are in fact using "overalls" to refer to coveralls, then this page should reflect that usage in some way. As such, it seems like both uses are mixed in all sections, and it's never quite clear which
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I think it is simply that a number of editors have added unrelated 'historical facts' in loosely chronological order, and no-one has since taken the section by the scruff of the neck and shaken it into shape. It has 'that spacing' because each sentence exists as a separate paragraph. The text needs
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I was told by a relative, who grew up in a shipbuilding town in
Scotland in the 1930s, that the name "boiler suit" originated in the use of the garments by the men who's job it was to descale the boilers of steam ships, a particularly filthy and unpleasant job, even in an era of hard physical work.
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The two sources given for this claim points to two fashion editorials by authors whom I can't confirm as recognized experts on men's fashion - Meghan
Blalock for instance writes almost exclusively about women's fashion - So, they do not like men in overalls and they are of course entitled to their
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However it is also worth mentioning that in this instance the word "overalls" is used because the garment was originally designed to be worn over all your other clothes, or at least as an outer layer, to protect your clothes from wear, tears, dirt, grease, grime, etc. Much the same as "coveralls",
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I AGREEEEEE. Why is "overalls" in the same article as "coveralls". These are two different and distinct garments. We don't put plums in the same Wiki article as Lemons. The article on Goats isn't on the same page as the article on rabbits. Serves no purpose other than to demonstrate the author
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There's been some disagreement about UK vs US usage of "dungarees" and "overall" (see revisions around this date). I'm not going to continue trying to clarify in the article, but for the record in most countries associated with the UK "dungarees" are trousers with a chest flap, and "overall" is
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RIDICULOUS. There's no way to put every explanation in 256 different languages to cover every possible interpretation of how some foreigner may interpret a word. We don't call our cops "bobbies" and we don't call our friends "blokes" over here either. Using your logic, we should adapt those
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Overalls and
Shortalls have an asymmetric design, in that the braces run parallel in front, but have a V in back reminisces of top half crossed braces in the back. But none of the current images illustrate this. however we have available of a copyleft image that does illiterate this in with a
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Yes, "overall" can also be an adjective with meanings like you've listed above, but it's perhaps even more commonly used as an adverb with a meaning similar to "generally," as in "overall, he performed well on the test." The adjective and adverb forms are similar but different (compare
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This page seem to have a mix of information on both overalls (bib-and-brace trousers) and coveralls (like jumpsuits). What should it be, really? Is the same term used for both pieces of clothing in
English or would it be better to transfer the parts about boilersuits to the article
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Of course I don't really understand if they are "boilersuits" in Europe and "coveralls" in
America, then who calls the "overalls" and why does this term not just mean "bib-and-brace overalls" now? If it DOES just mean 'bib-and-brace" type now, then all the clothes that were
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This sounds completely plausible however I've not been able to find any on-line source to confirm it, as searches for "boiler descaling" and "history" don't seem to find anything useful. Is there any way this can be included in the article (or the Boilersuit section of it)?
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I removed it. I agree that those were insufficient sources, being merely the personal opinions of two writers, neither of which are experts in men's fashion. And the last part is pure OR, not being mentioned in the refs at all and therefore wholly unsourced.
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You're right. A previous good faith expansion of the article was confusing (bib-and-brace) overalls with boilersuits/coveralls. The latter has a separate article and is not the topic of this article. I have removed those sections as out of scope.
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Was your grandfather famous for something? If not, his practice is not likely relevant enough to be included here. A university professor is always relevant for Knowledge and is often expected to wear much more formal clothes than an overall.
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Internet is a vast space and you can find pages dedicated to almost any interest someone might have. I searched for "barefoot and overalls" and one of the hits was this blog entry discussing the use of bare feet and overalls in movies,
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is right and this is a kind of classic image of America (and I won't argue with that) it could be worth some mentioning anyway. So, how should it be written? Are there some good examples from fiction to point to as examples for this?
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The description given here of what "Union-alls" were doesn't make any sense to me. "A set of overalls sewn to a workshirt"? Do you mean a boilersuit? Because being literally sewn to a workshirt makes no sense. They were
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Maybe so, but is it worthy of a section in the text in this article? I doubt it. I don't think there is very much which can be written about it and I also don't know how it should be phrased. On the other hand, if
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worn by women or children.The usual sense in British use and in most varieties of English close to British English. In North America known typically as bib overalls or overalls, and in Australia as overalls.
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There's a difference. American English and British English are both forms of English. German and Farsi are not and I don't think there are no such languages as "Egyptian" (they speak Arabic) or "Nigerian".
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Information in this article or section has not been verified against sources and may not be reliable. Please check for inaccuracies and modify as needed, citing the sources against which it was checked.
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962:"general"/"generally" or "comprehensive"/"comprehensively"). This is one of those cases where we use the same word for the adj and adv form. What can I say? English is confusing!
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You mean singular vs plural? I tend to agree. Other forms of trousers (and for that matter, "trousers") are pluralized as routine. There's no reason to use the singular here.
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Dr. Thomas Blasingame (a petroleum engineering professor at Texas A&M University) is notorious for wearing an overall on every occasion from daily wear to official events.
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I wonder if it is not something more related to fond memories of a child's carefree summer vacations, like in this picture I add here now with a boy and a baseball bat.
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It would be useful to include some discussion about the different pockets sewn on the bib, their uses and how they evolved. D. Fairbourn (10/31/2007)
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So the article, as it stands today, doesn't cover the use of either "overall" or "dungarees" in most varieties of English close to British English .
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How about a section dealing with bare feet and overalls? The two are very closely associated with each other sometimes. Perhaps even a picture too?
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I further note that of 7 images in the article (which I see is headed up "this is the article about bib-and-brace ocveralls; for coveralls , see
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Isn't overall also a word which can mean "on the whole, comprehensive, all-embracing"? There are many articles on Knowledge with titles like
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articles to include those definitions. By the way, why stop with proper Brit? Do we adapt it to fit German, Farsi, Egyptian, Nigerian...
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Are they not called "overalls"? I personally have never heard them called that. Is this a typo or do some people call it that? Thanks,
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I believe you are right. The classic image of a young boy wearing overalls, running barefoot by the pond, is classic Americana.
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Overall: Chiefly British. A protective outer garment; (now esp.) a loose coat or smock worn to keep the clothes beneath clean.
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I get the impression that a boilersuit may be clasified as a sort of jumpsuit, but not all jumpsuits are boilersuits.
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I am working on improving this article for a class. Here are some helpful sources I found that I will be using:
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Is there a reason why the line spacing in the History section is different from that in the rest of the article?
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Erh???? If the work is dirty or impact-risky enough to need a boilersuit, then work boots are also needed.
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https://biboverallsfilms.wordpress.com/2012/04/18/books-17-several-vintage-books-w-bib-overalls-boygirl/
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As noted on talk page, fairly confusing. There is enough here for B-class but it needs a lot of work.
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kind of clothing would get caught on the way through. But no, I have no other references for it yet.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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has further information). Otherwise consider finding a replacement image before deletion occurs.
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I wonder if the person who asked the question is still on Knowledge to see the answers here.
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has content on two different garments. In American English, "overall" can refer to either a
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What information is there about the history of boilersuits? When were they first made, etc?
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Shouldn't this be split into different articles? It looks pretty confusing as it is now...
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a bib and suspenders (US usage) that attach over the shoulders.
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except that "coverall" doesn't have any real alternative meaning.
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Just to clarify I mean I've never heard them called "overall".
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AND? So did my grandfather. Does this add to the entry?
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The following discussion is an archived discussion of a
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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1456:
1455:
1450:
1407:The OED says:
1375:
1374:UK vs US usage
1372:
1371:
1370:
1326:
1323:
1322:
1321:
1305:
1304:
1254:
1251:
1250:
1249:
1210:
1207:
1187:
1184:
1154:
1151:
1145:
1144:
1118:
1115:
1114:
1113:
1068:
1067:
1021:173.164.128.78
1005:
1002:
989:
987:
986:
970:173.164.128.78
937:Length overall
933:Overall length
928:
925:
922:
921:
897:
894:
893:
892:
891:
874:
863:
860:
858:
857:
847:requested move
841:
840:
826:
805:
787:
786:
752:
751:
705:
703:
675:
674:
664:requested move
658:
656:
653:
652:
651:
620:
617:
616:
615:
584:24.205.253.172
570:
567:
566:
565:
564:
563:
562:
561:
560:
559:
558:
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387:12.148.243.131
368:
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313:
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289:
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137:Mid-importance
133:
127:
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107:the discussion
94:
93:
90:Fashion portal
77:
65:
64:
62:Mid‑importance
56:
44:
43:
37:
26:
9:
6:
4:
3:
2:
1465:
1454:
1451:
1449:
1446:
1445:
1443:
1436:
1435:
1431:
1427:
1424:Best wishes,
1422:
1418:
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1408:
1405:
1394:
1390:
1382:
1369:
1365:
1361:
1357:
1356:
1355:
1354:
1350:
1346:
1345:63.248.183.82
1341:
1340:
1336:
1332:
1331:63.248.183.82
1320:
1316:
1312:
1307:
1306:
1303:
1299:
1295:
1294:71.161.91.117
1291:
1287:
1286:
1285:
1284:
1280:
1276:
1275:64.223.92.231
1272:
1269:
1263:
1261:
1248:
1244:
1240:
1235:
1234:
1233:
1231:
1227:
1223:
1222:83.95.244.228
1219:
1206:
1205:
1201:
1197:
1191:
1186:More sources!
1183:
1182:
1178:
1174:
1169:
1159:
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1132:
1130:
1125:
1111:
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1103:
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1092:
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1088:
1084:
1080:
1079:71.48.206.206
1076:
1066:
1062:
1058:
1050:
1046:
1042:
1038:
1034:
1033:
1032:
1030:
1026:
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321:
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283:
279:
275:
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269:
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267:
264:
258:
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238:71.48.206.206
235:
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210:
207:
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202:
196:
194:
190:
186:
182:
176:
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78:
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49:
45:
41:
35:
27:
23:
18:
17:
1423:
1420:
1416:
1410:
1406:
1396:. Retrieved
1392:
1377:
1342:
1328:
1273:
1267:
1264:
1259:
1256:
1216:— Preceding
1212:
1192:
1189:
1164:
1148:
1120:
1096:— Preceding
1073:— Preceding
1069:
1015:— Preceding
1011:
1007:
988:
964:— Preceding
960:
930:
905:
904:
885:
851:
844:
807:
798:
790:
755:
741:76.66.197.17
736:
733:Speedy close
732:
711:
704:
697:
678:
676:
668:
661:
622:
619:Line Spacing
573:
572:
536:— Preceding
378:
344:
315:
294:
259:
255:
232:— Preceding
227:
218:
177:
161:
136:
96:
40:WikiProjects
1398:21 February
1139:Daniel Case
772:Bib overall
768:bib overall
578:—Preceding
381:—Preceding
318:—Preceding
30:Start-class
1442:Categories
1268:previously
1196:EmilyStein
1168:Front view
1049:suspenders
812:boilersuit
471:Boot Blues
173:EmilyStein
1381:Oknazevad
1360:oknazevad
1311:oknazevad
1290:boilesuit
1239:oknazevad
1166:matching
1153:Back View
1037:WP:ENGVAR
776:Una Smith
486:Oknazevad
467:Americana
453:oknazevad
221:Zigzig20s
1218:unsigned
1173:Roguebfl
1098:unsigned
1075:unsigned
1017:unsigned
966:unsigned
764:jumpsuit
735:this is
715:jumpsuit
625:Ileanadu
609:contribs
580:unsigned
538:unsigned
526:contribs
499:contribs
443:contribs
383:unsigned
357:contribs
332:contribs
320:unsigned
234:unsigned
185:PrimeBOT
808:Comment
791:Comment
760:Overall
756:Comment
707:Overall
655:Mix up?
312:Pockets
299:Overall
199:History
139:on the
112:Fashion
103:Fashion
59:Fashion
1426:Pol098
1057:EdJogg
709:→ ] —
694:jones
641:EdJogg
421:EdJogg
274:EdJogg
215:Split?
36:scale.
1045:pants
766:or a
685:WP:MM
681:WP:RM
1430:talk
1400:2023
1364:talk
1349:talk
1335:talk
1315:talk
1298:talk
1279:talk
1243:talk
1226:talk
1200:talk
1177:talk
1106:talk
1083:talk
1061:talk
1047:and
1025:talk
995:talk
974:talk
953:talk
914:talk
834:talk
820:talk
795:Ulla
780:talk
745:talk
723:talk
645:talk
629:talk
605:talk
588:talk
546:talk
522:talk
516::-)
495:talk
475:talk
457:talk
439:talk
425:talk
407:talk
391:talk
353:talk
349:user
328:talk
278:talk
242:talk
189:talk
1055:--
1041:bib
849:.
737:not
690:Ron
183:by
131:Mid
1444::
1432:)
1404:.
1391:.
1366:)
1351:)
1337:)
1317:)
1300:)
1281:)
1245:)
1228:)
1202:)
1179:)
1108:)
1085:)
1063:)
1043:,
1027:)
997:)
976:)
955:)
943:,
939:,
935:,
916:)
908:--
836:)
822:)
782:)
747:)
725:)
717:?
666:.
647:)
631:)
611:)
590:)
548:)
528:)
501:)
477:)
459:)
445:)
427:)
409:)
393:)
359:)
355:•
351:•
345:~a
334:)
330:•
280:)
244:)
191:)
175:.
1428:(
1402:.
1383::
1379:@
1362:(
1347:(
1333:(
1313:(
1296:(
1277:(
1241:(
1224:(
1198:(
1175:(
1104:(
1081:(
1059:(
1023:(
993:(
972:(
951:(
912:(
832:(
818:(
799:—
778:(
743:(
721:(
692:h
643:(
627:(
607:|
603:(
586:(
544:(
524:|
520:(
497:|
493:(
473:(
455:(
441:|
437:(
423:(
405:(
389:(
347:(
326:(
276:(
240:(
187:(
143:.
42::
Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.
