Talk:North American P-51 Mustang/Archive 2

5811:, Jim Graham is an English child growing into a teenager in the midst of a POW camp, torn by the emotions of a coming-of-age and drawn into the world of the American prisoners who run a clandestine operation. Wanting to be like them, he devours the few magazines that they have and sees the P-51 Mustang as an iconic war machine, as author Ballard penned, the "Cadillac of the skies". Jim is completely absorbed by the thought that the Mustangs will come to rescue him and when two P-51 appear over the camps, he is at first mesmerized by the sight and as author O'Leary describes, "thrilled by the appearance ...". Spielberg films part of the scene in slow motion as Jim not only sees the pilots in a close-up but one of the pilots turns and acknowledges him, completing the transformation of Jim just surviving to that of a time of change where the Mustang represents the overthrow of the Japanese in the Pacific. The story then changes to a winding down of the Japanese presence with the camp guards slipping away and the nearby airfield being abandoned. The young Japanese teen that he had befriended becomes the lone remnant of the Kamikaze training school, and meets an unfortunate end in trying to remain a friend to Jim. The novel makes the clear contrast between the technological superiority of the P-51 Mustang to the Mitsubishi Zero fighters that now lay dormant on the abandoned airstrip, with their last role being that of suicide aircraft. 421:

sourced, just like text in all articles on WP. I wasn't talking about photos needing sources. I'm also not opposed to having these photos in the article somewhere appropriate. As to a conflict of interest, when you make comments such as "Next time I will simply upload to a Stock Photo house and let people pay for my efforts rather then be tossed under a bus after working hard to take some nice pictures and have the total lack of respect this group has so warmly provided" that shows a conflict exists. I'm not removing your photos because I don't appreciate your hard work in taking them! It's petulant to say stuff like that. I removed the gallery because galleries are generally not appropriate it, not because I'm on a witch hunt to remove all your photos! You cannot take it personal when your contributions are removed from Knowledge articles..This is not Commons , the rules are different for an encyclopedia. These are encyclopedia articles, not just wikis. Things you add will be edited, changed, or even removed. That's part of the editorial process here. But if you take it personally every time something you add is chaged or removed, you will drive yourself and everyone else here crazy. Your photos still exist on Commons, and someone will eventually find a place for them in an article if they are useful. -

6248:

beyond the effective range of the bomber formations' heavy defensive firepower. As almost every B-17 or B-24 aircraft in a typical USAAF combat box heavy bomber formation had, by 1944, at least a dozen Browning M2 "light-barrel" .50-cal guns aboard them for defensive firepower, an eighteen-plane "box" possessed a combined level of defensive firepower consisting of upwards of well over 200 Browning M2 machine guns, with dozens of them aimed in virtually every direction that a hostile fighter could approach it from. The Luftwaffe responded to this need by fostering the development of heavier, 30 mm caliber autocannons like the MK 108, and other weapons, as well as moving twin-engine heavy fighters to the bomber destroyer role that could carry the 37 mm and 50 mm Bordkanone series of heavy-caliber, auto-loading guns, as well as the BR 21 heavy-caliber unguided rockets that entered service in the spring of 1943. With these changes, along with better command and control needed to direct the large number of aircraft, their forces developed for a return of combat in the spring.

867:

Ministry. The Ministry specified a US engine the same physical size as the Merlin, so the Merlin could be dropped if need be - which did happen. British engineers were putting in Merlins and testing shortly after deliveries in England, before the US military had ordered the plane. After delivery, the British Air Ministry did not want any RR Merlin engines dropped into the Mustang as they needed all the Merlins for Spitfires to combat the FW-190. The Mustang was shooting down FW-190s at low level even with the Alinson engine before the US military ordered any Mustangs, yet they were still ignoring the plane because it was "foreign". This view is amazing, as at this time the USA never made a top front line fighter - all were dogs. They needed one, as they were in the war, yet were ignoring this plane. The USA talked good planes and had good plans of planes, but none flying. If the RR Merlin was not made under licence in the USA by Packard, would the US military have been interested in the plane in RR Merlin form?

5593:, January 1988), 11 pages are devoted to the pre-production and principal photography of the film, with specific emphasis on the P-51 Mustang. Three full-color and two black-and-white photographs of the P-51s used in the film as well as a two-page full-color spread, appear. Director Steven Spielberg considered J.G. Ballard's work as a seminal piece about the war, and his film brackets the other World War II-themed films he had created. Filming in Shanghai and on location involved meticulous research and Spielberg wanted to ensure historical integrity by following the novel's plot arc faithfully, including the need to introduce the P-51 Mustang as the "Cadillac of the Sky", an integral element of both the film and the novel. The filming of the raid was the most complex and elaborately staged sequence of the film, involving the entire prison camp set, and approximately 60 hours of aerial footage of the Mustangs. 397:

for a conflict of interest, in that I would have to intend to be offering these photos purely for self promotion, something that I could care less about. One of the photos from that gallery you removed was of the cockpit of these awesome aircraft, and considering none of the other photos has such detail, and I have even better close up's taken inside of Strega these highly modified planes and the pictures of them to educate the younger people that have no idea that this was once a main stay of entertainment in America. In regard to your concern about a gallery, I think considering the things I mention above that it as per the policy, a gallery would be appreciated here of the top tear of these machines that still fly today. Lastly, not wanting to be challenged again perhaps you might want to update the fact that these planes, many of whom were sold for a dollar, are in fact today selling for

3240:) also cites the fact that early on its history, the USAAF showed an inordinately low degree of interest in the P-51. It does not mention kickbacks, but does talk about the fact that other aircraft manufacturers had lobbyists and sales forces which aggressively pushed for their projects onto the USAAF. The book describes a large number of other USAAF projects that never made it to production, and one can't but help but see that the procurement process during WWII must have been politically driven. One of the worst manufacturers, Curtiss-Wright, had a very aggressive sales and profit oriented corporate culture that pushed numerous experimental projects onto the USAAF, none of which came to fruition. The book "Curtiss-Wright (greatness and decline)" by Louis Eltscher (see my review: 4000:". This was well before the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor. Development of the P-51B in America happened concurrently with the British conversion into the Mustang X and, because it was a more thorough conversion of the airframe, it first flew slightly later - 30 November 1942 versus 13 October 1942 - which blows the theory about the USAAF being disinterested right out of the water. Nor did the British pay for the NAA conversion. Between them the USAAF and RAF ordered 2000 P-51B/Mustang IIIs before both variants flew. The first production P-51B flew 5 May 1943 with the first operational group - The 354th FG - receiving them in England by November - this unit was equipped right off the production line with no "diversions" from the RAF. Where White got his "info" I don't know... 3126:

Rickenbacker relates how he recommended that the Rolls Royce Merlin 1,600 hp engine be installed instead of the Allison 1,450 hp engine. Thereafter just the P-51 frames were shipped to England, where the Merlins were installed. Rickenbacker then stopped by the Allison factory and told Allison to increase their horsepower, and they increased the Allison engine hp to 1,750, with no increase in weight. I should point out that the Mustang was great in combat because it was acrobatic, pilots could do all kinds of manouvres with it because of its center of gravity providing a pivot point. People generally think of it as a "speed" airplane. I talked to a P-51 pilot. Everytime you fire the guns, the recoil from the machine guns causes the plane to slow by 15 knots.

843:, the Air Ministry were banging out the fundamentals of the design and directing North American to Curtiss and the NACA (they developed the theoretical laminar flow wings) to ensure a fighter with some leading edge design points, not produce another P-40 fly-alike. The Curtiss XP-46 was an experimental plane with all the leading edge design points of top European designs rolled into one, and a few of their own. It never worked as the points never complimented each other when merged into their complete whole. There was a danger the Mustang may end up the same way - a dog. The British Air Ministry insisted North American buy the plans and tunnel test results of the XP-46 from Curtiss for North American to study for a whopping $ 56,000 at the time. 4570: 6365:

the short period when an escort fighter would have been useful the air war had not really reached the extent of heavy RAF bombing that later occurred after 1942, and the size of RAF attacks on Germany prior to this were only of one or two hundred bombers. Due to this the RAF bomber losses could be more or less negated by going over to bombing at night, albeit with poor accuracy. The size of bomb loads delivered was not great at this time, so was not of such importance to the British war effort as it was to become later, after 1942, when the four engined heavies entered service, such as the Halifax and Lancaster. So bombing by day gradually became restricted to the RAF Tactical Air Forces, and Mosquitoes, which didn't need an escort.

2348:

slowest, though there was not much in it. The Mustang had the best visibility, important for a fighter aircraft, the Messerschmitt the worst. The Spitfire cockpit fitted like a glove, the Messerschmitt like a strait-jacket, the Mustang like a too comfortable armchair. The Spitfire had two 20-mm cannon and four .303-in machine guns (sic; actually, the 101 Squadron Spits had two .50s, not four .303s), the Mustang six 12.7-mm machine guns (i.e. .50-calibre), and the Messerschmitt two 20-mm cannon and two 7.92-mm machine guns (sic; actually two 13.1-mm machine guns) synchronised to fire through the arc of the propeller.... Despite the pros and cons the Spitfire was everyone's first choice. "

1959:

have one source which says 9,700 lbs, two, including another flight manual, list 9,500 lbs and another 9,450 lbs. Equipment weights in different block numbers would have varied, with the final blocks including features such as, for example, APS-13 tail warning radar from December 1944. So the original weight listed, 9,200 lbs, may well refer to an early P-51D-5NA/NT without additions such as the dorsal fin etc. I suspect the 9,700 lbs is for a late D-30NA or NT with all of the wartime modifications, including the D/F loops used in the Pacific, zero-length rocket rails etc, which would not apply to the majority of Ds built. 9,500 lbs is probably about average.

3979:"The first American order for 150 P-51s, designated NA-91 by North American, were placed by the Army on 7 July 1940...The relatively small size of this first order reflected the fact that the USAAC was still a relatively small, underfunded peacetime organisation. After the attack on Pearl Harbor priority had to be given to building as many of the existing fighters - P-38s, P-39s and P-40s - as possible while simultaneously training pilots and other personnel, which meant that the evaluation of the XP-51s did not begin immediately. However, this did not mean that the XP-51s were neglected, or their testing and evaluation mishandled." Kinzey 1996, pp. 7, 17-18 6057:"After some disastrous raids in 1944 with B-17s escorted by P-38s and Republic P-47 Thunderbolts, Jimmy Doolittle, then head of the U.S. Eighth Air Force, went to the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE), Farnborough, asking for an evaluation of the various American fighters. Fleet Air Arm Captain and test pilot Eric Brown recalled: "We had found out that the Bf 109 and the Fw 190 could fight up to a Mach of 0.75, three-quarters the speed of sound. We checked the Lightning and it couldn't fly in combat faster than 0.68. So it was useless. We told Doolittle that all it was good for was photo-reconnaissance and had to be withdrawn from escort duties." 1212:

happened to be in the USA because UK factories were working 24/7. The British Air Ministry worked with the factory to nail down the design and change the plane after test flights - as you normally do. The British paid for it. It was their plane. It was an Anglo-American plane. American attempting to state anything else are making themselves look foolish. Also the structure of the article is very poor. BTW, the Brits thought so much of the Mustang they got rid of them a year after WW2 while the superior Spitfire flew with the RAF until 1957. Naturally the superior Tempest was kept on into the 1950s, until jet replacement.

3884:

all Allison V-1710 powered aircraft without a secondary supercharger/turbocharger), and then was completely transformed by the obvious-in-hindsight decision to re-engine the plane with the Merlin engine, and then the final decision to add the 85 gallon aft fuselage tank, which completed its transformation into the long range, high altitude air superiority fighter that it became. All of this happened organically, in synergy with its British connections, and not because of any master planning from the USAAF, which grabbed the plane back from the British once it saw what it was capable of doing with the Merlin engine.

859:

go to England to fully assess the plane as it was finished off in Liverpool. The US military were contemptuous of North American, as this company, which was only a few years old, had never built a top military fighter plane - It built trainers and later the B-25 bomber. The excuse not to take up the plane by US forces was that it was liquid cooled and vulnerable in frontal attack. This was a poor excuse to reject the plane because it wasn't theirs. What goes over the heads of these people is that the world's two best fighters locked horns in the Battle of Britain, both with liquid cooled engines.

2904:

a month earlier than the XP-51B. FWiW, see Birch who indicates that although there was an attempt by R-R to have North American accept British Merlin 61s in American airframes, it is clear that the parent company wanted to control their project and was essentially building production-standard aircraft rather than the experimental series that saw each of the Mustang Xs trying out new design elements. A fascinating offshoot was the mid-engine Rolls-Royce "Griffon" Mustang that actually made it to the mock-up stage, albeit with a Merlin installed amidships.

3512:

overall performance and capabilities. By contrast the La-9/11 series were closer in design era and capability, although probably debatable as this series didn't emerge until post-ww2: the Fw-190 had a radial engine - excluding the D series - but was of the same generation as the P-51, had similar characteristics and was also notable for advanced aerodynamics, mainly engine installation, and set a new standard for fighter performance. Again, such a list can be highly subjective - I can think of the Hawker Fury or F8F, but am trying to stick to ww2 era.

6219:

autumn, their radius was increased to 300 mile. some of the bombing missions were flown to a longer range with nearly unbearable losses, due to a lack of escort fighters. Even at Jan 1944, The Americans had one Mustang wing only, so only one bombers formation (among 3 ) enjoyed escorting fighters inside Germany. The Mustang was indeed a better dog fighter than the thunderbolt, but it was chosen as the main escorting fighter simply because it could fly further. BTW The long range P-47N arrived at the end of 1945 and was used against the Japanese.

2754:???Please read the article more carefully - the Mustang was not "designed by a UK commission", it was designed by NAA in response to a request by the British commission that NAA build the P-40 under licence - NAA designed and built a better fighter in response. Neither the British nor the Americans adopted the Allison-engined Mustangs as their main fighter - for the Brits it was the Spitfire and for the Americans it was the P-40; the P-51s in British service were used by Army Co-Operation Command and, later 2 TAF for tactical reconnaissance duties. 2703:"(1996, P-51 Mustang in Detail and Scale Part 1 Prototype through P-51C pp. 17-18). The first XP-51 arrived Wright Field 24 August, 2nd arrived 16 December; both were flown and continued to be tested almost as soon as they arrived - no way did they remain in a hanger for a year: the real problems lay in the USAAC having to transition from a relatively small, underfunded peacetime organisation to full wartime status, which led to a decision to focus on funding and producing as many P-38s, P-39s and P-40s as possible, without neglecting the P-51. 3507:: the category includes "Comparable aircraft: are those of similar role, era, and capability to this one" I cannot see how the Hurricane, Yak 9 or IK-3 fit the bill for "similar role, era, capability" - the Hurricane is clearly a couple of generations behind the P-51, and certainly did not have the same capabilities as the Mustang; by including the likes of the Hurricane one could then add all sorts of similar aircraft ad nauseum - P-35? P-40? Ki-43? D. 520? lots of candidates...the MiG-3 had similar capabilities to 4052:

try and figure out what could be done to improve the P-40. The XP-46 was the result, but this was canceled by their boss Hap Arnold because it would delay P-40 production. The NACA data was shopped around and NAA bought it. They designed the P-51's very fine wing airfoil after seeing the data. Kelsey pushed through an order for A-36 attack aircraft because it was the only way he saw to keep NAA from folding up for lack of orders. Kelsey felt that the P-51 was going to be a winner, and he wanted to keep the door open.

3958:

engines from an American engine to a British engine was allowed ONLY BECAUSE THE BRITISH WERE PAYING FOR THE RE-ENGINED AIRPLANE. The British ordered some 400 of these. There was no interest, nada, on the part of the USAAF to take this drastic step. Until the P-51B showed up in England and was shown to the USAAC pilots and brass. At that point, the USAAC got very excited, and in fact stole/diverted some of the initial batch of P-51Bs headed for the British for its own use. And started buying more of its own.

3941:

North American's origins had nothing to do with Fokker - all of this info is in the book "Mustang Designer"). The early P-51s were all owned by the British. So it was an American built aircraft owned and operated by the BRITISH. The USAAC bought 500 as the A-36, used it as a dive bomber in the Mediterranean, and bought 1200 as the P-51A and used it mainly in the China-Burma theater. These were roles that the P-40 also filled, so the P-51 was essentially viewed by the USAAF as a faster version of the P-40.

2405:"On 27 February 1947, a P-82B named Betty Jo and flown by Colonel Robert E. Thacker made history when he flew nonstop from Hawaii to New York without refueling, a distance of 5,051 mi in 14 hr 32 min at an average speed of 347.5 mph. This flight tested the P-82’s range. The aircraft carried a full internal fuel tank of 576 gallons augmented by four 310 gallon tanks for a total of 1,816 gallons. This flight, to this day, remains the longest nonstop flight ever made by a propeller-driven fighter..." 2140:, Kelsey's boss, took the XP-46 design and shopped it around to other aircraft manufacturers, letting them know that access to the XP-46 NACA airflow data was part of the deal. North American accepted the offer, took the airflow data, and decided to give Kelsey and Echols a completely new design, which they designated the NA-73. This became the basis for the P-51 Mustang and the A-36 Apache. The connection from the P-51 to the P-40 goes through too many steps to be relevant as a related design. 31: 3250:

government money, so the story is hardly new that there was corruption involved in weapons acquisition during WWII. But the story has the ring of truth - Curtiss Wright and other manufacturers were probably engaged in bribing USAAF procurement officers (the findings of the Truman Committee eventually put some of these people, including a general, into jail). NAA's corporate culture during WWII on the other hand was oriented towards excellent engineering, not sales and profits.

475:

generated lots of torque. But remarks like this need to be in context, and to be backed up with references. They also need to be expressed in encyclopedic, literate English. A well written version of this edit may have got away with one mention of the word "take off" for instance? And is there a place in the article where we discuss the Mustang's handling qualities? That's obviously where things like this go. Sticking it into a passage describing the engines used is confusing. --

851:

no Spitfire. The Alinson engine was approximately the same size as the RR Merlin, which could be dropped in if the need was there. The initial Alinson engined Mustangs filled an RAF niche. Also, all RR Merlin production was spoken for with a new factory being built in Manchester to expand production. Contrary to popular belief in the USA, North American did not have a prototype ready design which the Brits just happened to have snapped up under the noses of the US military.

2882:

fuselage structures to cater for the increased weight and cooling requirements of the Packard Merlin; the Mustang X was a much simpler conversion using Merlin 60 series engines. Does the book state that R-R designed the new cooling systems and engine mounts and handed on the work to NAA to engineer and work into the XP-51B, or does it point out that information and design ideas were exchanged between R-R and NAA, leading to the development of the P-51B over the Mustang X?

847:

never made another front line fighter after the Mustang was introduced. The Mustang killed Curtiss, who claimed they were responsible for many plagiarised design aspects. The US military wanted the experimental XP-46 to be pushed forward in R&D. When the P-40 production ramped up for French, British and US orders, it put the death spell on the XP-46. It was shame as the XP-46 could have been developed into a world beating design.

832:

niches and used for training. Curtiss could not make enough P-40s. So, in early February 1940 the British asked North American Aviation's President Dutch Kindelberger to furnish the additional P-40s they needed - make them under licence. Kindelberger told the British, without any detailed drawings or plans, "I can build you a better airplane, and I can get it built fast". North American did not want to make another company's plane.

2589:- the Soviets initially had no access to 100 octane petrol, and were using fuel of much lower anti-knock rating. When Rolls-Royce engineers visited the SU to find out why Hurricanes Britain had supplied were performing so badly they discovered the Soviets had been running them on 87 octane fuel - the Merlin needed at least 100 octane at its-then state of development. Later 100 octane fuel was supplied to the Soviets in the 5438:"Central focus" is not the sole criterion for notability. The fact that the scene is widely noted among reviewers, noted as a special and significant cinematic moment, is also an indication of notability. Which brings us back to my original point, that has yet to be addressed: This entry keeps getting removed with the reasoning that the appearance is brief. That is not a valid reason. The fact is, that the appearance is 2929: 1320:; nor were any sub-assemblies manufactured in Britain, except where British equipment was installed - the Mustang Is were all shipped from the USA in a disassembled state then reassembled at depots in Britain. Most P-51 subtypes that arrived in Britain were also disassembled and reassembled at depots in Britain, as stated by Bzuk. The only P-51s manufactured outside of the US were the Australian CAC Mustang variants. 5699:, featured models and restored Mustangs in an attack against a Japanese internment camp. This was the most complex and elaborately staged sequence of the film, requiring over 10 days of filming and 60 hours of aerial footage of Mustangs. Film historians and reviewers called it "Spielberg's most emotionally reverberant moment, and one of the rare movie scenes that can truly be called epiphanies." <Denby, David. 5957:, I don't recall range as a key specification: Typhoon and Tempest are about speed, Mosquito starts as a bomber. Bomber Command's heavies commit to night flying, the medium bombers are operating over France and the low countries within range of UK-based fighters. British efforts seem to have side-stepped the issue rather than fail to tackle it. I shall have to have another look at the Spitfire developments. 377:, galleries should generally not be used in articles. If you can build a consensus here that supports it, that' fine. By the way, given the fact that these are apparently the photographer of these images, you need to be careful of self-promotion, which is a conflict of interest. I'm not against adding new images to articles, but just because the photo is new doesn't mean it needs to be in an article. - 1426:

all by themselves to design and build. The Ministry even told NAA to buy the design plans for the Curtiss experimental plane - at great cost to NAA. Curtiss engineers always stated that is was a Curtiss plane design. The first offering from NAA never had laminar flow wings. The Ministry directed NAA to all the latest developments and get most into the plane. They did not want another P-40.

1151:

British design, but was wholly built in the US as a second source. Packard Merlin's also powered British aircraft which were built in Canada. What your probably picked up in England were aircraft being modified to updated specifications before entering service in England. Bear in mind that thousands of Mustangs served in other theaters too, and those planes never went to England. -

6100:

a major overhaul because it has accumulated lots of uncited material and some totally irrelevant material - what Galland thought about the P-38 is irrelevant, both in the context of the development of the escort fighter and the P-51 in general; I've kept it as a note but, IMO it belongs in the article on the P-38 itself (Bühligen's opinion on the P-47 should also be left out).

4420: 5393:

analogy is completely erroneous. The P-51 has also appeared briefly at the end of "Saving Private Ryan" and in other such films; are these to be included as well? Were all brief appearances by P-51s be included in "Notable Appearances" it would end up becoming an article in itself. Read the rest of the "Notable Apperances" entries and use that as a yardstick.

5544:. If you read the novel, the P-51 Mustang becomes a central focus of Jim's obsession with freedom and the Allies' ability to come to his rescue. He scavages magazines for photos of the aircraft and when the appearance of two P-51 Mustangs strafing and attacking his prisoner of war camp, it is a cathartic moment. Mark Carlson devotes two pages on the film in 5829:

story, it is the same, the epitome of aviation technology and clearly representative of the Americans that will ultimately save him. Likely, any aircraft attacking the prisoner of war camp would have been significant, that it was the P-51, the one aircraft that Jim knew and eulogized, made the aerial attack such a cathartic and exhilarating experience.

1292:"cocooned" and not disassembled. On arrival if work needed to take place, assembly depots would undertake the work of putting the aircraft together, eventually to the point that a test flight was involved when the aircraft was released for service. I have seen photographs of rows of Mustangs sitting in a field prior to D-Day, all in a disassembled form. 240: 4421:

http://books.google.com/books?id=8F_BIzw1QOAC&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=north+american+factory+hensley+field&source=bl&ots=Hj2x9nRE8w&sig=igOE0vr6HDv_UnwpWiQ5Mk7W-6k&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rU5HT56xEJDKiQLQpZ3bDQ&sqi=2&ved=0CEQQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=north%20american%20factory%20hensley%20field&f=false

3055:

dive-bomber versions in Italy. It doesn't explain the development of the Merlin-powered Mustang X in England or how North American then improved the conversion by upgrading the airframe to take the extra power, it doesn't go into the problems with the rear-fuselage fuel-cell shifting the c.g. -- it doesn't tell you anything, really.

2758:

1942, just after the first Mustang X flew in Britain. To say that the British pioneered the use of the Merlin is completely wrong because it was developed simultaneously by both Britain and America. It was the American P-51B that was adopted for production and used as one of the main USAF fighters in Europe, not the British Mk X.

2661:, i.e., the maneuvering limits, were Mach 0.68 for the Lightning, Mach 0.71 for the Thunderbolt, and Mach 0.78 for the Mustang. The corresponding figure for both the Fw 190 and Me 109 was Mach 0.75. The tests resulted in the Mustang being chosen for all escort duties from then on. One of the pilots performing these dive tests was 1261:

aircraft was an entirely US-based design. The use of the RR Merlin did not, in any way, confer anything other than an engine choice. Every authoritative reference source will acknowledge the British connection to the design, as well as recognizing that the NA P-51 Mustang was one of the preeminent warplanes to come from the US.

3715:

problems encountered with the addition of the fuselage fuel tank in the P-51B-K - have been adequately covered without needing to be bolstered by the opinions of pilots who may or may not have been closely associated with the Mustang: I cannot, for example, see the point of quoting Robert Johnson who flew the P-47 in combat...

4658:. No way. It had a good rate-of-roll, better than the Spitfire, so I would say the plusses to the Spitfire and the Mustang just about equate. If I were in a dogfight, I'd prefer to be flying the Spitfire. The problem was I wouldn't like to be in a dogfight near Berlin, because I could never get home to Britain in a Spitfire! 201: 907:

company under license and all European theatre planes were finished off in Liverpool in England using British perspex pilot canopies. Consensus of a number of people who think one way ignoring facts is not how an encyclopedia should operate. Fact is what it is about. I will rewrite parts of the article giving references.

5026:. Firstly, we need to be consistent with the captions of the other images in the article. Secondly, the information is useful, and it is/was news to some people as comments earlier in this talk page will show. Thirdly, removing informative text from an article because it is available somewhere else is unhelpful IMMHO. 185: 6152:. I proposed to delete the second half of it. As for the first half, there is an on going argument , what is a proper escort fighter. In order to reply, one have to consider the alternative to the Mustang: P38 and P47 who were the other U.S fighters with a possible range to Berlin. (Although not at the same date). 5764:, the sequence of an attack on a Japanese internment camp by Mustangs.... This was the most complex and elaborately staged sequence of the film, requiring over 10 days of filming and 60 hours of aerial footage of Mustangs. Film historians and reviewers identify the scene as a significant cinematic achievement." 5167:"Brief appearance of no notability." Brief, yes, but irrelevant. Appearing briefly isn't relevant because the presence, or prospect, of P-51 appearances is woven throughout the film. The entire story leads to the climax that features the aircraft. Claiming this isn't notable is as ridiculous as claiming that 1010:

does not make it a 100% American plane. The correct term is Anglo-American. Americans attempting to claim it was 100% American make themselves look foolish. It is also disingenuous to do so. BTW, my auntie flew them as a 19 year old. She tested and delivered them to their US and UK units from Liverpool.

6389:

Up to a point. On 27 August 1944, 216 Halifaxes of 4 Group led by 14 Mosquitos and 13 Lancasters of 8 Pathfinder Group attacked the Rheinpreussen synthetic oil refinery at Meerbeck, near Homberg in the Ruhr, escorted by 16 squadrons of Spitfires, the first daylight operation by Bomber Command against

6099:

is well worth reading for a good description of the chain of events(starting at page 167-168). If anything I would suggest something like "The P-51 evolved into one of the most successful single-seat, single-engined escort fighters of WW 2", citing the article. As it is that whole section badly needs

6064:

German pilots gradually learned to avoid diving away from a Thunderbolt. Kurt Bühligen, a high-scoring German fighter ace with 112 victories, recalled: "The P-47 was very heavy, too heavy for some maneuvers. We would see it coming from behind, and pull up fast and the P-47 couldn't follow and we came

5421:

It's exactly the lack of central focus that led me to remove "Empire of the Sun" each time. If every film with an appearance of a P-51 in it is included, the list would be ridiculously long. The lack of centrality, plus the repeated adds, may have led me to stronger languange than warranted, but this

4622:

Introduced at block D-5-NA and some C-NT were modifed before AAF final acceptance. The appearance of the kit fix on the C series also debunks and belies the often appearing statement that the strake compensated for loss of dorsal area occasioned by the 360 canopy. not true. It was the torque of the

4415:

The "Dallas" factory was located at Hensley Field in Grand Prairie, Texas, next to Mountain Creek Lake. Grand Prairie is one of those towns located between Dallas and Fort Worth, near the DFW Airport. The grounds of Hensley Field later became Naval Station Dallas, which was then closed in 1998.

3912:

Here we go again. The British wanted North American Aviation to build the P-40. Instead, NAA designed and built the P-51. The British throw around the word "specification" as if it was a detailed document. B*** S**** It has even been said that since the canopy is on top, the wheels on the bottom, the

3556:

I'm looking at similar a different way, then: inlines, not radials, for a start. IIRC, this has come up before, & was resolved differently, so it appears more clarity may be needed to avoid another round. (Or, at least, better recall; I don't recall the outcome linked above. :( ) No further beefs

3511:

P-51s but was limited in most ways, including armament etc: the Yak-9 and IK-3 (the latter did not even enter service) were of a similar era, but were of mixed construction, with none had the advanced aerodynamic features that characterised the Mustang, and were not in the same ball-park in regard to

3388:

This means more than a current news item. The Mustang was one of several aircraft at one of many airshows that take place in a year (and thank goodness there were no human casualties, although it is sad to see the Mustang being destroyed). To include this event will open the floodgates for every P-51

3070:

I fully agree, a truly terrible article. It also babbles on about irrelevant US planes in general as well. "It gives a negligible account of the Mustang I in RAF service"; It attempts to make out the British were not involved in the plane at all, and just a speculative buyer. Try putting in the truth

2903:

North American to adopt a Merlin-powered Mustang. Work in the US was stymied not only due to an initial lack of interest but also to mechanical failures with the first powerplants built by Packard. In the event, both projects commenced at nearly the same time with the first Mustang X in the air about

2898:

Nope, not a theory at all, Rolls-Royce made the first proposal to North American about a Merlin engine Mustang in 1940, sending three engineers led by James Ellor to supervise the adaption and manufacture of an American version of the Merlin 61, the same type that was already being considered for the

2006:

That you have figures of 8,500 lbs is unimportant cause that is not the fully loaded weight, which is quite clear to anyone in possession of the aircraft's POH or Technical manual (where you can add up every single component of the aircraft to confirm the weight if you wish) or even to those remotely

1953:

The change of loaded weight from 9,200 lb to 9,700 lb in the section on P-51D specifications may well be from the pilot's manual, but this source has not been cited in the specs nor has it been added to the bibliography, in which case it can be rmoved and contested. Another page from a pilot's flight

1291:

Aircraft were shipped by sea in a partially disassembled state with propeller, wings and tail surfaces removed, and the fuselage essentially complete, sealed in a crate. Depending on the transport involved, some aircraft in the Korean War, were later shipped via aircraft carriers. These aircraft were

1260:

Undeniably, the origins of the aircraft were through Anglo-American cooperation. From the outset, even though it had a British supply mission as the basis of its genesis, North American Aviation always had the US Army Air Corps in mind for future sales and development. From the P-51A and A-36 on, the

850:

The British Air Ministry took a major gamble with this inexperienced US company. The Ministry wanted something better than the poor P-40, but realistically never expected a Spitfire. Initially that was the case with the first deliveries of the Mustang using the Alinson engine - better than a P-40 but

827:

The Mustang was a British plane built by a US company for them. Without the British it would never have existed. The US government allowed the British to by-pass them and go directly to US companies for supplies, as if they were British companies. The plane was a British requirement and they dictated

6364:

BTW, the British never had any need for a long range escort fighter as pre-war it was assumed that any German bombers would be flying from Germany itself and any British bombers bombing Germany would be flying from French airfields, as no-one ever expected France to surrender as she did in 1940. For

6094:

The Mustang wasn't originally designed as a long-range escort fighter; that role evolved as the USAAF struggled with finding that an escort was needed for its bombers. Initially the bombers were to be escorted by the "gunship" version of the B-17, the YB-40, and it wasn't until this idea failed that

6000:

The US and Germany both had long range heavy twin-engine fighters at the moment each country became a belligerent: the Lockheed P-38 and the Messerschmitt Bf 110. The P-38 was the first Allied bomber escort to appear over Berlin, and it could hold its own against enemy single-engine fighters. The Bf

5989:

The Navy of Japan had a long-range bomber escort with the very lightweight Zero. They used the Zero as an escort for tactical bombers because they did not have strategic bombers. They also used the Zero to escort some transport flights, such as the failed escort of Yamamoto, a pair of medium bombers

5914:

I have also left the "cn" tag for the moment, although a good deal of following text goes on to support the statement, it is arguable that it is the more specific statements that need citation. Very hard, and not necessarily productive, to ask for citation of general statements that simply summarise

5789:

In creating the rationale for the inclusion of this novel and film connection to the P-51, wouldn't it be imperative to leave an "invisible note" within the text rather than trying to create the justification in what was originally a two-line note, now extended to that of a minor section/paragraph?!

4051:

DarthRad, you appear to hold a black & white view of things but there were shades of gray. Some members of the USAAC did not want to spend much on fighters. Fighter advocates Captain Saville and Lieutenant Kelsey thought otherwise, and they pushed forward the NACA wind tunnel research project to

3944:

The single seminal event in the history of the P-51 was when the BRITISH figured out that the P-51 could become not just a good low level fighter, but a terrific all around fighter including the high altitudes of the Western European strategic bombing campaign by putting in the Merlin engine. Rolls

3883:

This Knowledge article is COMPLETELY missing the great centerpiece story in the history of the P-51 - the fact that it started out life quietly as a minor British aircraft and was essentially ignored by the USAAF for the first two years of its existence, was limited to low-medium altitudes (as were

3791:

Actually there was "expert opinion" in the Spitfire article. It was German pilots saying pretty much the same as in the P-51 article. The felt they had the measure of the Spitfire. Now here's where the fun begins. The statements by the Germans was followed by some qualifying remarks by an editor. He

2757:

As Kinzey describes in his book on the P-51 trough to P-51B/C the Americans were fully aware of the performance of the Allison engine and had ordered two airframes to be set aside to be converted to Packard Merlins before the XP-51 flew (Kinzey 1996, p. 7.) First flight of the XP-51B was 30 November

1524:. Not only that, they also were the ones responsible for the first 600-aircraft order for what the Americans call the P-51B - the Mustang III or 'Merlin-Mustang'. The USAAF only got the P-51 by accident, by the time they used them the RAF had been operating the Mustang I and II for nearly two years. 1411:

Sorry, the P-51 was no more "Anglo-American" than the Lanc was "Anglo-Canadian" because some were built in Montreal. The P-51 was designed & built entirely in the U.S., & the "breakdown" for shipping doesn't change that. (Yes, aircraft were partly disassembled for shipping; they were shipped

858:

The US military overall, didn't want to know the Mustang plane even after it was shooting down FW 190s over France. This I find amazing, as the USA never had a decent front line fighter at the time. With British support, the P-51 finally got noticed by the U.S.Army Air Force". The US military had to

854:

The British Air Ministry could have said to North American, "drop the laminar flow wings as they are not proven in real world flying fighters, we want a fighter that works ASAP, without any initial major hitches". The British Ministry techies recognised it would work, and even they were taking a big

585:

propeller affecting one side of the aeroplane more than the other and causing a tendency to veer to one side, aided by the torque of the engine which tends to put more downward force on one main wheel, hence increasing friction on that side. The result is an aircraft that doesn't want to go straight

307:

I have added a gallery of racing aircraft that were at the Reno Air Races this year, and will continue to expand it, I have many wonderful photos of other P 51's from Reno 2014. This Wiki should mention the racing use and the many planes that are modified and maintained for the annual event and that

5650:

featured models and restored Mustangs in an attack against a Japanese internment camp. This P-51 raid was the most complex and elaborately staged sequence of the film, requiring over 10 days of filming and 60 hours of aerial footage of Mustangs. Film historians and reviewers identify the scene as a

5337:

I have seen the Cadillac name most commonly associated with one fighter: the Lockheed Lightning P-38. That airplane was said to be quite luxurious in terms of pilot experience, and it was also an expensive airplane with lots of automatic systems to make the pilot's job easier. Most importantly, the

4401:

The NAA factory in Los Angeles was located right next to the airstrip, and within the ground of Mines Field, which later became Los Angeles International Airport (LAX). Today, the site of the old NAA factory is at the southeast corner of the grounds of LAX in a patch called the International Cargo

3180:

There were other good reasons for the P-51s being "delayed" in production (see "For want of a flush rivet" above) - the P-51 was not unduly delayed, considering the circumstances in the American aviation industry in the early 1940s. Without credible verification such a story as this can't be added

2505:

TYVM. And the Sov example bears examining. (I never noticed it... :( ) Do keep in mind Red AF theory, tho. As I understand it (& by no means expert...), CAS was #1 priority, & even air superiority (& performance for it) not as desired. If true, the Mustang might have had characteristics

2347:

In mock dog-fights, we concluded that the Messerschmitt could out-climb, out-dive and out-zoom the Spitfire and Mustang. The Spitfire could out-turn the Messerschmitt, the most important manoeuvre in air combat, and both could out-turn the Mustang. The Mustang was the fastest, the Messerschmitt the

2041:

cited from "The Great Book of Fighters" and "Quest For Performance" respectively. You claim to have a pilot's manual for the P-51, yet you refuse to provide a citation for this when you have been asked several times to do so. Now, instead of providing details of the P-51 manual, you cite a website.

1958:

has a note "At 9500 lb gross weight with 80 gal of fuel..." I have other sources which list, for example, a tare weight of 7,120 lbs, a maximum permissible weight of 9,500 lbs for all forms of flying and 10,500 lbs for straight flying; another lists a t/o weight with no stores as 9,450 lbs - so, we

1211:

The plane was not a 100% US plane. That is clearly obvious. The article put it across it was WITHOUT ANY RELIABLE SOURCES. I am not interested in sources, only common sense from what is actually in the article. The British needed a plane. They approached a factory to make one as you do. The factory

835:

North American mailed the British delegation in New York drawings of a design concept for the new aircraft in early May 1940, which never had the laminar flow wings, and on 29 May the British awarded a contract to North American for the "NA-73X" fighter, named "Mustang" by the British Air Ministry.

795:

This article infers the P-51 had the range to escort bombers to Berlin. That inference creates a false impression. The operational combat radius was not sufficient to stay with the bombers (weave), engage the enemy, and maintain an emergency reserve. Only by means of an intricate relay/rendezvous

6320:

than either the Thunderbolt or Lightning, which was important for use at the high altitudes that aircraft providing top cover to the bombers, had to fly. The high Mcr was necessary when diving down at these altitudes to intercept the defending Luftwaffe fighters, both the Lightning and to a lesser

6247:

The outcome of these air battles were extensively studied by both forces. The Luftwaffe felt their primary problem was armament, as their fighters were designed for combat against other fighters and lacked a weapon suitable to quickly knocking down an aircraft as large as the B-17, preferably from

6015:

There's a common attitude the P-51 was the only correct solution, but if we are going to say "first" or "successful", I agree, the P-38 needs to be mentioned. If we argue for "most successful long range escort", which I have the sense is intended, I won't gripe. (I suspect that begs edit wars over

5584:

in model form as well as two warbirds featured in the climatic raid on the POW camp. The novel and screenplay specifically refer to the role of the P-51 Mustang as representing the tide of war changing. In film historian James Farmer's account of the film, the Mustang is identified as important to

5392:

in the story line; it is not intended to describe fleeting, peripheral apperances which are incidental to the overall plot. Empire of the Sun is not about the P-51, or personalities associated with the P-51, while any mention of the P-51 is an incidental part of the overall theme - the "Kill Bill"

4989:

I for one agree that the article really needs a section discussing the Allison engine variants and their combat usage by both the RAF and the USAAF. The P-51 may be best known for its work as an escort, but it was used very effectively as a tac-recon and attack fighter for some time before it even

4812:

Late to the party on this one, but what you have here is emphatic speech. Try reading it as "it could not - by no means - out turn a Spitfire" and you can see how it works. Alternatively it can be interpreted as a double negative to "intensify the negation" as the Knowledge article has it. (Seeing

2700:

On 7 July 1941, the Army placed an order...for 150 P-51s...even though the two XP-51s had not yet arrived at Wright Field. This is clear evidence that the United States already recognized the significant potential of the design....Out of the 150 ordered two were held back for eventual testing with

2610:

BTW, the two Mustang Is built as 'freebies' for the USAAC remained in the hangar unflown for at least a year, as no-one in the USAAC could be bothered to try flying them. By the time anyone did, IIRC, the RAF were already flying their Mustangs on operations. That's how interested the US was in the

1836:

Yeh, my recall was NAA lifted the laminar wing, & I can't recall (& really don't want to look ;D) to know if they adopted the 'stang fuselage or built new, nor how much the Attacker was re-engineered; IIRC, the idea was similar. I won't push for inclusion (not a big deal either way to me),

1425:

You need to look at the design process. The British Air Ministry constantly directed NAA to what "they" wanted. NAA were a new, inexperienced company with the Air Ministry looking over their shoulders and directing. NAA had no experience of designing and building such a plane, so could not be left

1165:

The planes were not entirely built in the US. Most came in with stub wings and no tail. They were finished off and tested in Liverpool. I know what I writing about! The US made engine was an British RR engine made under license. I have a Toytota car made in England, people say it is Japanese. Most

976:

You got a lot right, except the "influence". What you write makes it an Anglo_American plane. It was a British plane. It was THEIR plane! That is easy to understand. The US never made decent front line plane, until the Brits got s US company to make one for them using their design input. The Brits

846:

There were similarities between the design of the NA-73X Mustang and XP-46 that would eventually lead Curtiss engineers to accuse North American of plagiarism. They were not far wrong as the British Air Ministry were telling North American to adopt some of the design features of the XP-46. Curtiss

831:

The British and French needed as many planes as possible to counter the Nazis. Their own aircraft plants were being expanded however could not cope with demand. The US made front line planes were far inferior to the Spitfire and Hurricane but they were planes and available, so could be fitted into

474:

Actually a lot of truth in this - all single (piston) engined aircraft tend to swing on take off. Most WWII fighters (and the Mustang was certainly no exception) were notorious, as their airframes were as light as possible - while their powerful engines drove relatively large, heavy propellers and

420:

You said, "This Wiki should mention the racing use and the many planes that are modified and maintained for the annual event and that alone." I assumed you meant you wanted some article text to go along with photos, like we have in most articles. That's a good idea, as long as the text is reliably

396:

I did not contribute any text other then the description of my photo. Yes you are correct in that I am the photographer, and frankly speaking my only concern is offering a depiction through my lens that is superior to what the public see's in that space prior to the addition. Intention is required

135:

The article in the US operational section goes on and on about how poor US bombing tactics were, and relegated the British section, after all it was British plane, as an after thought. The article appears unstructured and needs some moving of sections and maybe one section about US bombing needing

5828:

An interesting correlation in both the novel and film is also made about American technology with Jim wandering through a junk yard and coming upon a Packard automobile, clearly much more substantial and sophisticated than the other cars scattered about. When the P-51 Mustang is introduced in the

5726:

I haven't seen this movie, but I do have a question - is the appearance of the Mustangs in this case actually "about" the Mustang as a type? or might they have used (say) Thunderbolts or Corsairs instead, assuming those type had been available, without affecting the plot or dramatic effect in any

5316:

Fair enough. After examining some sources, it seems you're right, the term "Cadillac of the skies" existed before the film, and was used to describe various other aircraft in the past. Then again, it seems over 60% of Google hits for the term use it in conjunction with "Empire of the Sun". In any

3940:

The P-51 was an American-built aircraft whose chief designer (Edgar Schmued) was a naturalized American citizen of German-Austrian origin (he had once worked for the American Fokker company, which had no connections to Germany - its name came about because Dutchman Anthony Fokker was its head.

3714:

I have reservations about putting "expert opinion" in these articles because the accusation can be made that such opinions are selective and subjective, leading to the temptation to counter with opposing opinions. It seems to me that the in-flight qualities of the Mustang - including the control

2486:

Rivet added. On another subject, I find the USSR entry interesting - in what way did the Allison engined P-51s "under-perform" cf the Russian fighters? The early Mustangs performed extremely well at low altitudes - certainly better than the Yak 1 and LaGG 3, and had a good range and armament, and

2400:

If you want to count any of Blair's or Mantz's records it must be noted the fighter was not a war production model complete with guns or even dicing cameras. The Blaze of Noon/Excalibur III was a highly modified Mustang with a lot of records under its belt. However, the longest fighter flight was

1276:

Bzuk, the British connection isn't what's in dispute here. The OP is claiming, among other things, that final assembly occured in Britain, which is patent nonsense. To the OP: it is true that aircraft were often dissassembled to some degree and shipped overseas. However, I was speaking generally.

1009:

You do not need a source to conclude the plane was a British plane in concept, (as the article states) with the British directing an American company to make it for them (as the article states), without any US military contribution (as the article states). Because it was partially made in the USA

866:

The Ministry pushed North American in the direction they wanted. If it ended up being a P-40 type of plane then they lost nothing, except valuable time. If it was better then some gain somewhere. What was being put together was untried by a new inexperienced company, so a great gamble for the Air

836:

The contract specified initial prototype delivery in January 1941, and completion by September 1941. North American were first approached in Feb 1940, who had no "detailed drawings or plans". In May 1940, they still never had any, mailing a "design concept" to the British delegation in New York.

6218:

I suggest to add it again. It clarifies that the Mustang was the only available escort fighter for long range bombing missions. According to Galand, At 1943 beginning, the Thunderbolt radius was limited to 150 mile, so most of the escort fighters left the bombers as they entered Germany. At 1943

6052:

Kurt Bühligen, third highest scoring German pilot on the Western front with 112 victories, recalled later: “The P-38 fighter (and the B-24) were easy to burn. Once in Africa we were six and met eight P-38s and shot down seven. One sees a great distance in Africa and our observers and flak people

5539:

I have to raise some of the same points here as I have written about Ballard's inclusion of the "Cadillac of the Skies" as a modern fable that never, I stress, never, appeared in contemporary literature during World War II. No references have ever alluded to the use of the term in regards to any

4111:

This letter could be characterized as pitch from a salesman to someone he thinks may be interested in a product: Act now and save time and money. The order came so it was successful. It doesn't strike me as being an indication Kindelberger was actually afraid the line was actually going to be

3792:

said the Germans HAD to say those things for reasons of patriotism or propaganda, I really don't remember. I went back three or four months ago to have another look but they were already gone. The editor didn't say the Gestapo were holding guns to their heads, but you get the drift. Al Cook USA

2739:

Calling the Mustang a USA plane is misleading, as it was designed by a UK commission and first used by the RAF. At that time the USA services were happy with their existing planes. The Mustang came into its own when the UK replaced the Allison engine with the Merlin, progressively improving the

1871:

The FJ-1 and P-51 definitely count as related in design, though not that closely, and probably with no interchangeable parts. I have a book with a diagram of their side views overlayed, and their is a definite resemblance, even in the fuselage. That said, the FJ-1 is definitely not a jet-powered

1364:

PS - The reason the British got rid of the Mustangs in 1946 is because this was a condition of lend-lease under which the P-51s were given to the RAF, not because the Spitfire was superior. The British also used the likes of B-17s, B-24s, B-25s, F4Us, P-47s, C-47s, etc etc - ALL disappeared from

1182:

Another point to remember is that planes were often shipped overseas rather than flown. Sometimes theybwere partially disassembled, and had to be reassembled and test flown. These aircraft had generally already been test flown in the US after completion, before being disassembled for shipment. -

906:

It was an Anglo-American plane for sure. Americans have selective amnesia when it comes to nationalism. The plane was result of the British who had a big say in the design of "their plane", which they were paying for. Read what I wrote above. The later planes had a British RR engine made by a US

520:

Must admit I was thinking of the tendency for a single engine propeller aircraft to need opposite rudder to cancel the torque once the power really goes on and the take-off roll starts to gather momentum - of course the Mustang, Spitfire (and all other aircraft with long noses and "tail-dragger"

346:

Please replace it. It is better to have it on the page then simply to place the files on commons whilst the community questions my style of contributing, as demonstrated by your "needs to be reliably sourced" comment. The refs for the racing P 51's are plentiful and considering that this is just

5910:

fighter, capable of tackling the day fighters trying to shoot down the bombers, then this is probably fair enough. The "heavy fighter", owing its range to increased size, and typically having two engines, had proved incapable of filling this role as early as the Battle of Britain - although two

5283:

My position, which hasn't been addressed, are that the two assertions I mentioned above are invalid reasons to reject the inclusion of this film in notable appearances. I provided a source immediately above to support the first item. The argument about RC models is so ridiculous that it doesn't

5230:

That article could use some work. I didn't claim there was a "theme of expectation" although I do recall having that sense of expectation personally when I saw the film decades ago. The fact remains that the whole story led up to this climax, which is easily verified by noting that every single

5159:

to the list of notable appearances of the P-51 in media has been reverted with a dismissive comment. The most recent reversion refers to it as "cruft", and so far every other reversion I've seen, including the original archived talk page discussion, is similarly dismissive without providing any

3211:

It wasn't until 1942 that the USAAF decided to order 310 P-51As and 300 ground attack/bomber A-36A Mustangs. The reason for the delay in procurement of the type was for somewhat murky reasons, uncovered during an inquiry known as the Truman Report. The demand for kick-backs was refused by Dutch

2881:

The trouble with the theory that R-R took the lead in the Merlin conversion work is that there were major differences between the work done by R-R to the Mustang Xs and the XP-51Bs by NAA; for a start NAA completely re-engineered the cooling sytems, centre-fuselage and engine mounts and forward

4500:

from Eric Brown, taken from a book written for gamers, including a description of aerial tactics of WWII fighters. Gian put wikilinks into the quote, a practice which is deprecated in MOS. I restored the quote with its awkward English, but I wonder if Gian (a native Italian speaker) accurately

3957:

It is clear from the history of what happened with a similar later attempt to convert the P-38 to the Merlin engine (quashed by the USAAC due to protests from Allison - that this happened is stated flatly as a fact in Graham White's "Allied Piston Engines of WWII" book) that this conversion of

3249:

I am unable to find the original Truman Committee reports cited above (they must be buried somewhere in the NARA archives) - There were a number of Truman Committee reports, delivered at regular intervals, all of which uncovered vast quantities of bribery, corruption, and complete wastage of

1974:

In that case you should list 9,500 lbs instead of 9,200 lbs. However the later developed P-51H was engineered to be lighter than the P-51D/K normally loaded, and the P-51H weighed 9,500 lbs in its' normal loadout. So I'd say the 9,700 lbs as listed in the -51D's Pilot's Manual is what needs be

1150:

When reliable published sources clearly state that the aircraft was American, you need reliable published sources to claim otherwise, and then onlynbas a counterclaim, not to replace the existing one. Also, the planes were built entirely in the US, as were the engines. The Packard Merlin was a

3125:

Eddie Rickenbacker thought the Fokker/P-51 Mustang relation was important--he goes into it for two pages in his autobiography "Rickenbacker", Fawcett Crest, 1967, pgs. 191 to 192. Rickenbacker even worked for Fokker Aircraft for a while, he was vice president in charge of sales. On page 330

1245:

This article, and a number US contributors, is falsely attempting to state that the Mustang was a 100% US plane. This BilCat accuses me of inserting a POV when I wrote fact. I put in an opening para in the Operation section, getting the info from the article itself and he says it POV. This is

921:

Wow, are we still having this conversation? What malarkey. Every American fighter was influenced by the war in Europe, so should say that all of them are Euro-American? Ridiculous. The Mustang was completely redesigned by North American, produced by North American, and it was largely flown by

3468:

Good point: if there is no discussion about how and why the T-28 and P-51 are "related developments" in either article there's no reason to add the T-28 to the list. Also, how does one define "similar aircraft?" It seems to me that this rather loose category lends itself to extended lists of

887:

Saying "The Mustang was a result of Anglo American cooperation" is far different from saying it was an Anglo-American aircraft. I've reverted your changes to the article as they are not cited from reliable sources, and are controversial. Please do not re-add this or similar content without a

742:

Very interesting statistic - one I just got from the same source says that 100% of humanity (excluding a tiny little horsey demographic that can, and should be ignored) have never heard of the term "mustang applied to a horse and if they did would wonder why a horse could be called after the

153:

Two XP-51s from the original NA-73/Mustang I production batch were taken on charge by the USAAC in 1941 and tested at Wright Field, 10-22 December 1941. Testing continued through August 1942, evaluating combat and performance characteristics compared to contemporary US designs in production.

5184:

was also done with models, and later, computer graphics. So what? The footage still features the aircraft, regardless of whether they were vintage aircraft (which were actually used) or models, or computer-generated graphics. The fact remains that the aircraft play a predominant role in the

3054:

It's a terrible article. Just useless. It gives a negligible account of the Mustang I in RAF service (which included the first Mustang air-to-air victory by a US pilot in the RCAF during the Dieppe Raid) and says nothing about early 20mm-armed Allison-engined USAAF P-51s in North Africa or

1350:

You also claim that the sources used in the article are not reliable - what documentation or "reliable" secondary sources do you have to support this position? If you cannot come up with better arguments, or provide some good sources, other than your opinion, you do not have a leg to stand

3541:

Just in order to mud things up a bit, confusing rather than clarifying -- the Hurricane had a Merlin engine, same as the P-51 and the Spitfire (which is listed as similar). I will admit that the Hurricane was a much previous design and built more for toughness than for speed, but anyway.

642:

Someone linked mentioning the illegal sales of Mustangs (immediately post-war, when they were still potent weapons) with the actions of that nice German chancellor (what was his name) and those nasty people who want to bomb us in our beds. Pleeeze keep politics out of aeroplane articles.

2793:

The lead should say that the P-51 was conceived, designed and built by North American Aviation. Philca above is doing the misleading saying the U.S. was building a British plane. It's a 100% American plane being sold to the British. The British were in the U.S. to buy American planes.

2042:

You have no right to demand from me that I restore the "right" weight figures while you continually duck and dive over providing an accurate citation, not to mention details of the P-51 manual for the bibliography (any material cited is supposed to added to the bibliography as well).

2836:. The period of development may have coincided with work at North American, but Rolls-Royce took the lead in the work, despite Kinzey's effort to consider the two projects as independent. FWiW, in retrospect, the two projects did proceed without much interaction, see later comment. 4576:

E2-A, next in line, doesn't have the extension and the last Mustang is a P-51B, without extension - so there's really no need to change the caption. Interestingly a closer look at E2-S shows that the carburettor intake has a plain plate fitted in the panel below the exhaust stubs.

6001:

110 was less suited to escort work because it was not as maneuverable, yet it was used in that role. If the word "proper" means "successful", the Bf 110 should be struck down. I think the actual practice should win out here, not a judgement of what is properly an escort fighter.

521:

undercarts) had to be swerved from side to side while taxiing because the pilot had no view at all directly ahead until his tail came up. Perhaps the two things were confused in the editor's mind? Whatever he meant, the edit couldn't stay where it was, or in that form, anyway. --

1820:

Not as clearcut as there was an attempt to redesign the Spiteful as a jet-powered version. I don't think the FJ-1 Fury went through the same transformation, more of keeping a similar wing profile much in the same way that the NS Navion also used an offshoot of a P-51 wing. FWiW

5520:, however brief, is "especially notable" to deserve mention, and I have also provided a reliable source with a quotation to demonstrate it. The counterarguments about the scene being "brief" and not the "central focus" have no grounding in Knowledge guidelines for notability. ~ 3091:

Here's an interesting tidbit: in 1929 General Motors acquired Fokker Aircraft Company, moving it to Baltimore where it was re-named General Aviation Incorporated; then it moved to California and was called North American Aviation. So Fokker's company built the P-51 Mustang!

5284:

deserve further discussion, particularly when I have already provided an analogous counterexample. I don't have access to the sources cited in the article about the film, so I have no way of knowing how authoritative the article is, I just offered it up as another argument. ~

1734:. Shouldn't they be treated as production versions in the list here and at the variants subpage? I'm wondering a bit about that late date + the availability reports per theater vs Germany and Japan had far more F-6 on hand than should have been officially converted by then.-- 131:

The article does not state when the plane entered US service. It does not state when the US first tested the plane. They left the two planes given to them by the contract terms in the corner of a hangar. It does not state when the US first used them inn operational combat.

4864:

The whole article really needs a facelift and some culling: as it is there are nine paragraphs, dedicated to a lengthy appraisal of USAAF bombing strategy, in two poorly referenced sections before the P-51 is even mentioned, starting with yet another unreferenced paragraph.

862:

The US military hijacked some British specced Mustangs after the Japanese attacked the British and Americans in Dec 1941, keeping the British specification planes to the annoyance of the British. After all this was their plane and these finished planes were ordered by them.

551:

All 'high-powered' tailwheel aircraft possess a swing on take-off as the tail is raised, the amount of swing just varies with the power and aircraft/undercarriage geometry, so to a trained pilot the swing is allowed-for and should be a non-event. A few aircraft such as the

4706:) should be inserted into the quote, though personally I`d edit it because I can`t believe that Eric Brown said it, or if he did it was a slip of the tongue. Incidentally, where`s the proof he did actually say that and it wasn`t just a transcribing error in the book ?-- 4059:. Knudsen was in charge of US government war purchases—the guy had been a top executive at General Motors before the war. Warren Bodie writes that Knudsen likely had a vested interest in GM, the competitor of Packard who was making Merlins for US aircraft. Knudsen was 948:. It used in most models a British RR engine. It was British plane made by a US company with heavy British content - the engine. To call this a 100% US plane is gross lies. All the literature that calls it an American fighter is wrong. I bet it was printed in the USA. 442:

or similar all it needs is some reliable sources but as both the related warbird and racing scene appear to be long standing it should not be hard to find reliable sources. As an alternate I dont think we have an article on warbird racers as a general class either.

4516:

I've read some of Brown's books comparing aircraft. They probably qualify as sufficiently reliable sources to be quoted in Knowledge. However, we should get the original quote and not the butchered (twice translated?) second-hand quote presently in the article.

4397:

It's also about time that we got the locations of the North American factories where the P-51 was produced straightened out. The locations are currently described as "Inglewood" and "Dallas". That's simply sloppy history and bad geography and not accurate.

2136:, then ordered two prototypes from Curtiss in September 1939. Kelsey wished to improve upon the P-40's rather average performance. General Hap Arnold canceled the XP-46 program for the expressed reason that it would delay P-40 production by four months. Colonel 1837:

but if somebody's got the sources handy, maybe it can get settled, & include/not if appropriate. The idea being, a) how much is familial, b) how like/unlike Supermarine's approach was it, & c) how were 1st gen jets designed (in which vein I think of the

6390:

Germany since 12 August 1941. (Martin Middlebrook & Chris Everitt, The Bomber Command War Diaries, rev. edn. Midland Publishing 1996, p.574.) RAF heavies regularly attacked German targets in daylight under Spitfire or Mustang fighter escort from then on.

796:

tactic could a series of escort mission fulfill the mission. each indivdual mustang could not, no matter how large the formation. This infers the need for quanitity (force strength) besides range to cover penetration and withdrawal to and from the target.

6053:

called in sightings and we could get altitude first and they were low and slow.” General der Jagdflieger Adolf Galland was unimpressed with the P-38, declaring, "it had similar shortcomings in combat to our Bf 110, our fighters were clearly superior to it."

5194:

quotes the phrase, and companies such as General Dynamics have borrowed it to describe their aircraft. The point is, the film had an impact on popular culture that would not have happened without the build-up to the climactic scene with the P-51 Mustangs.

4459:

NAA did not go into specific geographical locations when it named these factories - they were called Dallas and Inglewood for convenience, not to satisfy revisionists from 70 years later, when the locations have been swallowed up by post-war urban sprawl.

3244:) describes Curtiss-Wright's successful lobbying efforts to get funding for its profitable projects - unforunately, there was no engineering to back up the sales pitches, and everything that Curtiss-Wright designed during WWII suffered from severe defects. 327:

I've removed it. The best place for such galleries is Wiki Commons, and it doesn't appear to have a page solely for racing Mustangs. It should be no problem adding a section on racing on WP with a couple.of photos, but it needs to be reliably sourced. -

1909:. One of the first restorations by Kermit Weeks was a P-51D in the markings of Preddy's Mustang. For more information on Major Preddy, see www.preddy-foundation.org." It reads like an ad, and I have temporarily moved it here for further comment. FWiW 6337:. The resulting Mcr figures were M = 0.68 for the Lightning, M = 0.71 for the Thunderbolt, and M = 0.78 for the Mustang. The corresponding figure for both the Me 109 and the Fw 190 was M = 0.75. In contrast, the figure for the Spitfire was M = 0.86. 4285:

The first American order for 150 P-51s, designated NA-91 by North American, were placed by the Army on 7 July 1940...The relatively small size of this first order reflected the fact that the USAAC was still a relatively small, underfunded peacetime

5911:

engined fighters had useful roles, especially at night, they could not effectively escort day bombers. The sentence may well need to be rephrased, and it may also belong to the next paragraph? For the moment I have simply reverted its deletion.

5607:

Thanks for that detailed information. It confirms what I've been trying to explain all along, better than I've been able to explain it. I don't think there should be any doubt that this film deserves a mention in the list of notable appearances.

5189:

Finally, the film introduced the phrase "Cadillac of the skies" to describe the P-51, a phrase that has become so well known that has entered urban mythology as being attributed to the war years, according to our article on the film. The 2004

4292:

and were never used by the USAAC themselves. Under the terms of Lend-Lease the USAAC had to first buy them using their own funds and the aircraft where then 'lent' to the UK. Prior to this all Mustangs had been paid for by the British under

3164:

I recall that production of the P-51 was delayed until 1942 because Dutch Kindelburger refused to be involved in kick-backs. Anybody know anything about this? Anybody got any RS? Would this make a good addition to the article? Thanks.

506:

I do wonder if all the "swing" is about torque, & not about visibility. AIUI, the 'stang (& Spit) were notoriously hard to taxi because it was impossible to see over the nose, so a lot of rudder was used to see where you're going.

3764:

Opinion fails to meet the research standards, introduces bias, and degrades facts to antidote. The selection of who is an expert is subjective, introducting an atmosphere of debate. Expert Opinion sections are a poorly conceived idea.

5848:

weight to devote too much text to this scene, compared with other entries in the article. Perhaps it would be better to have just a sentence or two for the entry, with explanatory comments in the "Notes" section already in the article.

2854:

Should'nt the article mention somewhere that the "specifications" for the P-51 submitted to North American by the British Purchasing Commission consisted only of no. of guns, their caliber, the engine, unit cost, and delivery date.

756:

article for goodness sake! But the above unsigned remark is just as silly. Or was it meant to be, and I am being even sillier? For the record, while there might be an argument for the horse to get primacy, to suppose it will be the

437:

We dont normally add galleries to aircraft articles as that is why we link to commons not matter what the subject of the images. I do see potential for a stand-alone article on the civil use of Mustang for air racing something like

6297:

need clarification. The P51 was chosen because of his long range, while the P47 range was too short (until the P47N appeared, but too late). If you agree that this clarification is sufficiently important, I'll look for a wp:rs .

3878: 1753:

Lots of talk about this, but still nothing in the article itself, except a teeny tiny notation under "variants," which is kind of nonsense. The addition of the Merlin was a key factor in the development of the aircraft. Should be

1382:

78.105.8.41 would do better to stop calling established editors "childish" or claiming that they are writing history from a purely "American" perspective - I'm a New Zealander and definitely not biased to a purely American POV.

6346:

These figures were important for fighting at high altitude, as at 30,000 ft the speed of sound is approximately 100 mph lower than at sea level, and during combat some WW II fighters could easily get local flow near enough to

5320:

So then, is there any objection to including this film in the list of notable appearances, citing the reference I used above? Reviewers seem to consider it a significant scene in cinema, so shouldn't the article reflect that?

2188:

You need top read a hell f a lot more. The Brits setup the conceptual design, directing a rookie company to what THEY wanted. The Mustang, it initial first name, not the later P51, was a British plane made by a US company for

5515:

I have also complied with that notice by discussing it here after a recent attempt to include it (not mine) got reverted as "trivial cruft", which it demonstrably isn't. I believe I have provided evidence that the scene from

688:

article; that is, the horse editors have claimed that their article is primarytopic, at a discussion that was not advertised to editors of the various car, airplane, and city articles affected, and was also not advertised as

4662:

The sentence in bold makes no sense at all. If it is a quote how do we know that the book it is quoted from got it right ? Even if it did it is conradictory and meaningless so should either be deleted or edited so it makes

468:

a wild horse to handle on takeoff. The tremendous torque from its 1650 hp merlin engine made it a nightmare on takeoff, as the pilot was constantly battling right and left on the rudder pedals to keep the plane straight on

6251:

Completely unreferenced, and what the heck does a study of the evolution of German armament have to do with the P-51 becoming an escort fighter? The details, as interesting as they might be, belong in the relevant article

4653:

The Mustang was a good fighter and the best escort due to its incredible range, make no mistake about it. It was also the best American dogfighter. But the laminar flow wing fitted to the Mustang could be a little tricky.

3627:

The Life archive has photos showing at least 3 P-51s in Costa Rican markings (consisting of a horizontal band in the colours of the national flag), and several web sites have additional info (the best of which is probably

1098:, and that is not permitted on WP. What we do expect is that you cite published (print or internet) reliable sources that clearly label the Mustang an Anglo-American product, and that support final assembly in England. - 5952:

I find myself asking "What where the British efforts on a long range escort fighter?" The twin-engine designs at the start of the war where generally an attempt to carry a large cannon armament. In my reading of Buttler

5346: 3743:

You should have seen it before, the present article seems to reflect more of a balanced approach compared to its earlier incarnations, and the attention of many editors has helped ensure its continued development. FWiW

2156:

That is incorrect. The British Air Ministry directed NA to the NACA laminar wings and the XP-46, insisting NA pay £52,000 for the test data to get the job. If they didn't they would have ended up with a P-40 fly-alike.

3974:

Where to begin? The "story" of the P-51 being ignored by the USAAC & USAAF has long been debunked by, amongst others Bert Kinzey;to have it reappear in a 2003 book is poor research on the part of that author. Read

2282:

It is a DF loop, but this one (like the smaller WW2 German loops) is fixed, the armature in the receiver rotated. Rotating loops were usually in a teardrop shaped fairing sometimes referred to as a football. RandyX

3048: 4501:

represented the book's English. Do we have another source for Brown's comment? Do we trust that Gian got the quote right? Do we silently correct any strange English in the Brown quote? Do we trust the book itself?

5871:

The page currently states that the last Mustang was downed in combat by the US in 1965, Operation Power Pack. Capt Fernando Soto Enrique of Honduras is credited with downing an El Salvadorean P51 in July 1969.

1572:

The article is rubbish and completely fails to explain the Mustang's history and development. And if you think the British were not your allies there is something radically, seriously, horribly wrong with you.

6294:

In early 1943 the USAAF also decided that the Republic P-47 Thunderbolt and P-51B be considered for the role of a smaller escort fighter and, in July a report stated that the P-51B was "...the most promising

1990:

And I have figures of 8,500 lbs for the P-51H...You have stated your information comes from the manual yet you have not provided this as a source, so, until the source is provided by you nothing can be done.

4040: 1556:

Well from somebody who does not think that the British were our allies - all the points you have raised are mentioned in the article have you any specific paragraph or section in the article that is wrong?

3928: 439: 199:

The US first operational use of the P-51B was with the Eighth Air Force flying from the UK, in December 1943. The aircraft had initially been allocated to the Ninth Air Force for tactical reconnaissance.

2016:

So unless you feel you have more accurate data than that presented by the Flight Test Engineering Branch of Wright Field Ohio in 1944 then present it, otherwise please restore the right weight figures.--

1904:

The following submission was recently made: "Major George Preddy is the world's top Mustang ace with 26.83 aerial victories. Most of these victories were gained while Preddy was flying the Mustang named

4367:

Initial USAAC order for 150 was for aircraft serials 41-37320 to 41-37469 and these 20mm Hispano cannon-armed aircraft were destined for the RAF under Lend-Lease as Mustang Mk.IAs under British serials

2775:

You are wrong. The Air Ministry was directing NNA to the laminar wings and other aspects pioneered by Curtiss. The plane was conceived by the British. It was their plane, for them and paid for by them.

4562: 1730:

AAF statistical digest of WW2 claims 299 direct-build F-6 by NAA Dallas, 74 in 1944 and 225 in 45 (up to August). Matches the 136 F-6D + 163 F-6K claimed as "converted" by other sources. Availabe at

4392: 2734: 1455:. Some aircraft such as Hudsons, Bostons, Thunderbolts, and later Lightings, arrived as deck cargo after being 'cocooned'. Longer-range US- and Canadian-built aircraft were flown over directly via 2264:

The fighter appears to be releasing its drop tanks, with no indication of what they are filled with, or if they are empty. The roundel style reveals that the date is some time after January 1947.

1880:. If we can find a reliable source detaiking the relationship of the P-51 and FJ-1, I think it would be worth including. I'll check the book I mentioned to see if there is enough info to cite. - 3212:

Kindelberger in order to get a production award. "Ultimately, even those who sought to block the procurement could not sustain their position, because of the obvious qualities of the airplane."

2767: 1197:

The planes were not test flow in the USA and then disassembled. You are making that up. It would be futile to do such a thing when they had to be test flow in England after final manufacture.

3064: 2487:

should have been ideal for the Russians, yet it under-performed? I get the feeling that this is the author cited taking Soviet propaganda too literally - this deserves further investigation.

1335:

The planes were not test flow in the USA and then disassembled. You are making that up. It would be futile to do such a thing when they had to be test flow in England after final manufacture.

2809: 5041:

It's a photograph of four Mustangs, but the fourth one is mostly obscured. There is no reason we need to have the caption go into detail about this one. The aircraft itself is not notable.

4451: 3807: 2971: 2870: 5513:

This section is only for major cultural appearances where the aircraft ... has an "especially notable" role ... A verifiable source proving the appearance's notability may be required ...'

2999:- my mistake - it was A. G. Elliott I was thinking of. He was involved in Merlin development at RR as he was Chief Engineer for a time and later became Joint Managing Director of the firm. 2657:, as the 8th Air Force had been having trouble when these aircraft dived down onto attacking German fighters whilst providing top cover for the bombers. The results were that the tactical 2446:

Far as I know the P-82 flight is the all-time unrefuelled fighter distance record (not just prop-driven record) and Blair's flight is the single-engine fighter record-- but I'm no expert.

3453:. I visited the T-28's page, but I do not see the connection. Granted that they are both single-engined, piston monoplanes by NA, but does this warrant the "related development" mention? 1769:

All this info was layed-off to the variants subarticle, the development section here is more like a stub. There should be some extended summary in this section with link to subarticle. --

1656: 2033:

I am completely familiar with the data on WW II Aircraft Performance, but it cannot be used here because it is a private website and, according to Knowledge guidelines has problems with

2749: 2698:

Some interesting info there; however, the bit about the Mustangs being left unflown by USAAC for a year is a myth which has long been refuted by aviation historians - eg; Bert Kinzey: "

2593:. Presumably the same applies to the earlier Allison-engined Mustangs they received, as the aeroplane would have been quite well suited to the low altitudes used over the Russian Front. 811: 347:

about to sole remaining use of the planes, starting with a gallery would be a great way to introduce that into this wiki unless your claiming that my photos are not properly sourced...

2527:

In some ways the Mustang was a British aircraft - but certainly it was designed and built for the RAF. Why then does the operational history deal entirely with service in the USAAF?

5924: 3887:

Much of this story is contained in this great reference book: "P-51 Mustang: Development of the Long-Range Escort Fighter" by Paul Ludwig, which is not cited at all in this article.

2899:

Mustang X experimental series. On 9 June 1942, the first memos from W/C I.R. Campell-Orde of the RAF Air Fighting Development Unit at Duxford, reveal that an effort was being made to

6286: 2628:

Also, anyone wondering why the Mustang was chosen over the Thunderbolt and Lightning to provide escort to the bomber raids might find this useful for the article - I added it to the

6399: 176:

First US operational use of the P-51 was in April 1943 by the 154th Observation Squadron of the 68th Observation Group. The aircraft were P-51A's. These aircraft were operated from

5260:

don't support the idea that the phrase in the movie was the source of use in popular culture, and an editor has used their own opinion to say that Bull has the dating wrong in the

3241: 2470:

Considering the Mustang's importance in RAF (exceeded, I'll admit, in USAAF...), I'm pretty surprised the first RAF squadron to use Mustang Is is left out. (Or did I miss it...?)

4638: 1505:

Whether some people like it or not if it hadn't been for the British and the RAF the US would never have had the Mustang at all. Similarly if the UK had not been available to fly

4990:

existed in its Merlin-engine form. I think this info is important to the general story. If I dig up references and write a section for it, it's not going to get deleted, is it?

1674: 1670: 713:... and it is rather laughable that some users are expecting a 'Mustang' search to go anywhere else other than to the horse, as not everyone using Knowledge is a car or aviation 5889: 2116:

for further discussion with the rest of the regular editors? I'm sure we can sort this out fairly quickly, don't you agree? Alright, let's be on our merry way then, shall we? --

2701:

the Merlin engine...the claims that the U.S was not interested in the Mustang, and that its testing and evaluation were mishandled, cannot be substantiated by documented facts.

2371: 4063:

interested in giving Packard any more business than absolutely necessary. If Allison had the capability (and they did) then they were going to get the contract, no arguments.

4013:

by the British Purchasing Commission;" This can be called BS by an ill-informed IP address but the specifications issued by the British to NAA can be found in the late, great

3780: 4630: 3772: 803: 3945:

Royce did the initial conversion, to the Mustang X. North American did the definitive airframe design changes to smoothly incorporate the Merlin and this became the P-51B

3596: 4510: 3040: 5511:

However, the issue remains that we have a notable cinematic moment that is not only missing from the article, but also complies with the section header comment, namely

5727:

way? If the Mustang simply appears as a generic WWII American fighter-bomber then I would be very doubtful as to whether mention of the movie can be justified here. --

3320: 3170: 3097: 3071:

with references and about 20 Americans will revert it giving no reason. A problem with wiki is that it is consensual. So if 20 want to distort, the 20 get their way.

2336: 5773: 3190: 2785: 2542: 5880: 4928: 4822: 3678: 3324: 3131: 2680: 2436: 2367: 2326: 2294: 6010: 4972: 2726: 770: 622: 501: 5980: 5416: 4906: 4786: 4483: 4138:

BTW, a P-38 was allocated to Rolls-Royce for Merlin conversion at Hucknall, but it was either never delivered, or the experimental conversion itself was cancelled.

4072: 3924: 3803: 3617: 3080: 2891: 2227: 2051: 2000: 1566: 1033: 986: 971: 957: 931: 530: 145: 5433: 4888: 4843:

As a result of the recent bit of back & forth, I wondered: shouldn't the bomber self-defense doctrine & why fighters were, or weren't, used be covered by

4616: 2712: 2516: 2496: 2440: 2298: 1549: 1480:

This discussion is going nowhere, as only one guy thinks the fighter is Anglo-American. His arguments are not backed by reliable sources, so we can dismiss them.

1420: 1365:

British service shortly after the war ended because the terms of lend-lease said they were to either returned to American ownership or scrapped. I have started a

881: 4491: 4406: 4009:"The P-51 was conceived, designed and built by North American Aviation (NAA), under the direction of lead engineer Edgar Schmued, in response to a specification 3423:

I absolutely agree and the event being described is of a minor nature anyways and certainly doesn't fit the standard idea of a popular cultural connection. FWiW

2866: 2166: 1582: 1489: 5947: 4957:& a passing mention to her intended role. Something in the vein of, "Despite British & German experience, USAAF did not believe there was a need for an 4715: 4687: 4339: 4258: 4205: 4168: 3016: 2455: 2202: 1474: 1049: 6307: 6161: 6123: 6024: 5341:

Regarding the phrase "Cadillac of the skies", I notice that the China Clipper was described in such terms, as was the Lockheed Constellation, the and even the

5249: 5225: 3913:

propeller in front, the tail in back and the wings somewhere in between, it has to be British because that's the way a Spitfire is built. Sheesh. Al Cook USA

3738: 3654:

I reverted a strange format change by 192.138.83.34 and didn't notice the placement of a new image (which I accidentally zapped). Thanks for reverting me Bzuk.

3575: 3120: 2183: 2082: 1435: 1255: 515: 5966: 5636:

Based on what has been written above, I suggest the following wording for the entry. The proposal is a bit wordy but it captures the reasoning for inclusion:

3705: 3551: 3492: 3366: 3149: 3135: 2740:

Merlin's ceiling and top speed. The USA then made Mustang their main fighter and fighter-bomber. All of this is described in the main text, with citations. --

2569: 2420: 1778: 1019: 916: 901: 154:

Following the successful evaluation of the XP-51s, 57 of the initial RAF order were diverted to the USAAC "for immediate use". <Delve 1999, pp. 23–24.: -->

6380: 5736: 5531: 5493: 5446:, even if it is brief. The coverage of the appearance by reviewers (see the quote of one I included above) should be sufficient to include it by Knowledge's 5361: 3450: 2684: 2149: 1221: 732: 5461: 5050: 3753: 3432: 2913: 2273: 2122: 1406: 452: 163: 120: 6391: 6076: 5602: 5575: 5068: 4751: 4672: 4121: 3056: 1755: 1574: 1206: 1192: 1175: 1160: 1107: 1004: 5317:

case, the origin or meaning of that phrase wasn't my actual argument. I was mostly responding to objections I saw raised in the past, that seemed wanting.

4600: 4526: 3872: 3583:

should be modified to include planes historically operating after the war, so that the list isnt eventually reduced to nothing. the recent destruction of

3567: 2845: 1889: 1942: 556:

had more vicious swings and more care had to be taken, but otherwise any competent pilot would just get used to any swing and allow for it automatically.

6228: 6175: 1858: 1830: 1270: 708:

The horse is obviously the primary topic as whether directly or indirectly all the other 'Mustang's are named after it. This ought to be fairly obvious.

5332: 5311: 5295: 5278: 3101: 2017: 2013:

As listed in the documents the normal clean loaded weight of the P-51D is 9,760 lbs, where'as the P-51H weighes in at 9,544 lbs. Just as I mentioned.

1976: 430: 386: 360: 337: 5860: 5619: 2394: 5010: 4634: 3776: 3651: 807: 652: 5548:(2012). I certainly would like to discuss this further with the editors who regard the appearance of the Mustang as "trivial", "cruft" or "fanboy". 3682: 3174: 2480: 2382:"Blair used it to set a New York-to-London (c. 3,460 mi/5,568 km) record in 1951: 7 hr 48 min from takeoff at Idlewild to overhead London Airport." 1968: 1301: 1286: 702: 675: 5348:

To me it looks like the connection between the phrase and the Mustang arises with author Mark Hanna in 1987 as he was writing about the filming of

5206: 5035: 4556:

Please take a closer look at the group of 361st FG P-51s in the info box photo - only one of the Mustangs is fitted with the dorsal fin extension:

4538: 3893:

The book "Mustang Designer", which is cited in this book, contains parts of that great story also, but is severely underutilized in this article.

3462: 3415: 3044: 1720: 1369:

and short section on British service because the Mustang Is were the first Mustangs to see service and it is a notable part of the overall history.

6244:

The statement about the P-47 was uncited; as it he entire section needs some intensive copy-editing and pruning as well as proper referencing eg:

5884: 5820: 4919:

Sorry, I was so busy getting rid of incorrect statements that I digressed at excessive length. I hope my latest change seems like an improvement.

4678:

Makes sense to me although they are not the words that we would be used today, it is a quote you cant really mess about it with it and change it.

2025: 1984: 3673:

in reviewing some other pages, such as the ME109 and Spitfire, there is no expert opinion. But there is on this page. Seems bias to me jacob805

3242:

http://www.amazon.com/Curtiss-Wright-greatness-decline-Louis-Eltscher/dp/0805798293/ref=sr_1_7?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330000069&sr=1-7

2330: 1763: 6216:

quickly identified its maximum range, and their fighters waited for the bombers just beyond the point where the Thunderbolts had to turn back."

5672: 5557: 5352:. The Mustang was not luxurious inside like a Cadillac, nor even like a Lockheed, so I don't know why anyone would think to call it luxurious. 5235:

says of the scene "It's Spielberg's most emotionally reverberant moment, and one of the rare movie scenes that can truly be called epiphanies."

5143: 4998: 3831: 3580: 3535: 3390: 3343: 4858: 484: 4113: 3351: 2951: 1634: 977:

made the Spitfire, Tempest, Meteor jet in the UK and got a US company to make one for them, the Mustang, as UK factories were working 24/7.

663: 5838: 5799: 5715: 4569: 3307: 3280: 1444:

article about the assembly points in the UK where US crated aircraft - including the Mustang - were assembled after arrival by ship, here:

743:

aeroplane after which that famous car was named. Was it all something to do with the Ferrari style badge Ford chose for the "mustang" logo?

126: 5631: 3688:

No bias at all, just that no-one has yet got around to adding such content to those articles. Care to start? The ME109 you mention is at

2059: 822: 1814: 607:

AFAIK the Mustang wasn't noted for any unusual tendency to swing, whereas the later Griffon-engined Spitfires such as the Mk XIV were.

6259:

I suggest ending the section at the statement "Losses were so severe that long-range missions were called off." and going straight to "

3621: 3229:. Richard Atkins. Aircraft In Profile. The North American P-51b & C Mustang. Surrey, England; Profile Publications Ltd., 1969. p.4. 1743: 414: 321: 81: 76: 71: 59: 5700: 5656: 5236: 4546: 4186:"Sired by the English out of an American mother, the Mustang has no parent at Wright Field to appreciate and push its good points". - 4055:

Regarding the notional P-38 with Merlin engines: Lockheed thought it worth looking into but they ran into a brick wall with Lt. Gen.

3843: 2717:

Not a year but the US military did not swarm all over the two they were given. There were left in the hangar for a considerable time.

2251: 1534:

Well, the phrase "credit where credit is due" comes to mind - unless you think that your British allies don't deserve the courtesy.

778: 492:

I agree that context is critical here, that the Mustang was no different than any other high-power single-engine fighter of the day.

90: 3606:

Costa Rica has no military after 1948, yet it mentions that Costa Rica Air Force had a P-51 Mustang or a few in the 50's and 60's.

2825:

The development of the Merlin-powered P-51 is covered in detail by the Rolls-Royce Heritage Trust, specifically, in Birch, David.

5655:

called it "Spielberg's most emotionally reverberant moment, and one of the rare movie scenes that can truly be called epiphanies."

3587:

shows that needs to be done, as this WAS a surviving plane, and deserves to remain on the list despite the event.(mercurywoodrose)

1277:

Nowhere in that paragraph did I specify the Mustang, as I don't know the situation in England that your aunt was involved with. -

4644: 3641: 2212:

There is no link between the P-40 and the P-51 exept for the Allison engine of the early Mustangs, later changed to the Merlin.

2066: 693:

as is standard. This notice is an attempt to get wider participation from editors of affected articles, but so far it has not.

6316:

The Mustang was eventually solely used for escort duties in preference to the Lightning and Thunderbolt because it had a higher

6256:: if anything this entire paragraph is surplus to requirements because readers can be redirected to the details via wikilinks. 4945:

I meant no criticism. It was your trying to fix it that got my attention to the matter at all. I agree, saying something about

373:

No, photos don't need to be reliably sourced, just usable on WP per copyright laws. Text does need to be reliably sourced. Per

105: 5971:

Look at the Mosquito. It could also carry the same bomb load as B-17 when used as a bomber. It could outrace German fighters.

5338:

1948 Caddy came with fins that were said to be modeled after the P-38. This was the start of the big fin era in American cars.

4949:

the Mustang wasn't in service sooner, & why she was at all, is germane to the page; I just question(ed) the emphasis. So,

4606:

That is the damndest I've heard in awhile. I always thought that strake was standard off the line... Thx for the correction.

4984: 4407:

http://books.google.com/books?id=38YHabG2GVEC&pg=PA54&source=gbs_selected_pages&cad=3#v=onepage&q&f=false

2219: 2007:

familiar with the aircraft. You can look here for more information regarding weight as-well as special performance testing:

962:

Clearly built to British requirements and influence and used a British-designed engine but it is still an American-aircraft.

4497: 3663: 2261:? The antenna was rotated by the pilot until the strongest signal was located, to determine rough direction of radio source. 4763:

Is that what Brown actually wrote, or is it a poor transcription of Brown's opinion? Go back to the original, if possible.

3440: 3316: 3166: 3093: 2777: 2534: 2377: 1918: 1541: 1011: 978: 949: 908: 873: 137: 5180:"Most of the footage was done with RC models" (claimed in the archive). Irrelevant. Most of the X-Wing fighter footage in 922:

Americans. All the literature call it an American fighter. Nobody but a guy on the internet thinks it was Anglo-American.

5876: 5017: 4702:

make sense ? ! ? Quite apart from anything it`s a double negative, i.e. it could out turn a Spitfire. At the very least (

4551: 3674: 3588: 3358: 3303: 3127: 2676: 2432: 2363: 2322: 2290: 657: 2557: 215:

First Mustang I's for the RAF were received in October 1941, and the first RAF operation with the type was an attack by

6372: 5972: 5148: 3920: 3799: 3613: 3072: 2801: 2718: 2194: 2158: 1466: 398: 2649:

Early in 1944 the P-38H Lightning, P-51B Mustang and P-47C Thunderbolt, were dived for compressibility testing at the

6321:

extent, the Thunderbolt, had lower Mcr's that induced buffeting and the other aerodynamic effects of approaching the

5135: 4331: 4250: 4197: 4160: 3008: 2963: 2862: 2833: 2465: 2239: 2074: 1427: 1247: 1213: 1198: 1167: 1041: 724: 614: 1624: 5267:

I can find references the the phrase in conjunction with a De Haviland in 1970, and the Lockheed JetStar in 1969. (

3086: 47: 17: 4014: 2242:

of a P51 dropping napalm in Korea. Anyone know what it is? And if they do, should it be mentioned in the caption?

4439:

Early Inglewood included the ranch which was leased by Los Angeles to become Mines Field. NAA began in Inglewood.

2073:

Dave, the P-40 was a predecessor to the P-51 and in the P-51's page it mentions that the P-40 was several times.

1587: 6263:" which can then start with "For the US the very concept of self-defending bombers..." The rest is just padding. 6016:"most"...) I'm also unaware of British efforts, beyond fairly unsuccessful work with "slipper tanks" on Spits. 3988:

As for the story of the USAAF ignoring the potential of a Mustang with a two stage Merlin...wrong again: "...in

3386:

where the aircraft plays a MAJOR part in the story line, or has an "especially notable" role in what is listed."

1673:

to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

991:

A surprisingly large amount of English language military aviation books are written by British authors, such as

5450:

requirement. I see no policy or guideline supporting the assertion that "central focus" is required for this. ~

3668: 3226:. Enzo Angelucci and Peter M Bowers. The American Fighter. Mila, Italy; Haynes Publishing Group., 1987. p. 331. 2315:

Is this really a photo? Looks like a painting to me, or at least heavily retouched. //roger.duprat.copenhagen

1527:

It would seem that the major British responsibility (along of course with NAA) for the Mustang amounts to "the

4838: 3504: 1094:

No one here expects you to put your aunt in the article, as her unpublished recollections would be considered

5006: 4294: 3948:

The irony of this current P-51 article is that there is a perfectly good Knowledge article on the Mustang X:

3839: 3330: 3159: 1948: 1517: 1513: 1452: 637: 717:

and I suspect that 90% of the world's population have never even heard of either the car or the aeroplane.

6326: 6095:

the USAAF turned to the P-38, after which consideration was given to both the P-47 and P-51B: this article

5866: 4093: 3992:, the 93rd and 102nd airframes from the NA-91 order were slated to be set aside and fitted and tested with 3976: 3584: 3469:

single-engine, single seat fighters of WW 2, depending on how far individual editors can see similarities.

3372: 2650: 2629: 3336:"The aircraft’s two-section, semi-monocoque fuselage was constructed entirely of aluminium to save weight" 235:, on the 5th January, 1942. First RAF squadron to declare itself fully operational with the Mustang I was 5104: 5099: 5076: 1635:

https://web.archive.org/20130620174847/http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=86405&key=0

1596: 4298: 4242: 3445:

Hello. The article lists some aircraft with related developments. At first I thought it odd to find the

3000: 2955: 1692:

If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

1445: 5484:

which already deals with these appearances. Its fairly standard on other aircraft articles to do this.

5300:

I didn't mention either of the objections you brought up in your original post. I made my own points. (

5108: 4924: 2310: 1748: 1638: 666:

which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you.

38: 5481: 3389:

related air-show story notable or not. It might be more appropriate to include this in the article on

6205: 5920: 5732: 5113: 4090: 2223: 1456: 766: 648: 526: 480: 4377: 4089:

on doubtful future of Mustang production line once production for Britain had been fulfilled, here:

3271:

I have a photo of a captured P51 with german markings but I am not sure how to use it in this entry.

2425:

Seems unlikely but has a jet fighter flown further (unrefuelled)? I'm asking because I don't know.

6279: 6116: 6096: 5757: 5683: 5661:

Any suggestions? I omitted the "Cadillac of the Sky" bit; including it made the passage too long. ~

5646: 5409: 5257: 5213: 5155: 5091: 4881: 4779: 4593: 4476: 4033: 3731: 3528: 3498: 3485: 3446: 3408: 3186: 3111:

built the Jaguar E-Type . Maybe there's a blog somewhere which might be interested. Hopefully not.

2887: 2781: 2763: 2708: 2538: 2492: 2047: 1996: 1964: 1731: 1545: 1399: 1015: 982: 953: 912: 877: 141: 3888: 3237: 2008: 228: 6395: 5962: 5769: 5571: 5221: 4818: 4324:

The second USAAC order for Mustangs was also for supply to the British, again under Lend-Lease.

4237: 3592: 3362: 3299: 3276: 3060: 2105: 2078: 2034: 1759: 1725: 1578: 302: 224: 5125: 3378: 1677:

before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

6376: 5976: 5022:

I have reinstated text which was removed from the caption in the infobox with the edit summary

3076: 2805: 2722: 2198: 2162: 1693: 1470: 458: 5238:

If that isn't a strong statement about the significance of that scene, I don't know what is. ~

4961:, instead being convinced bombers could defend themselves." (with sourcing, & less POV). 6006: 5743:

It has been said that the Mustang is core to the novel. Why not turn the phrasing around. eg

5489: 5357: 5139: 5046: 4920: 4902: 4747: 4711: 4683: 4668: 4506: 4447: 4335: 4254: 4201: 4164: 4086: 4068: 3818: 3266: 3012: 2967: 2416: 2269: 2233: 2145: 2021: 1980: 1955: 1938: 1787: 1712: 1680: 1562: 1485: 1431: 1251: 1217: 1202: 1171: 1045: 1029: 967: 927: 728: 618: 578: 497: 448: 263: 116: 5566:

Sounds like it's the novel where the Mustang is the important element rather than the film.

5177:

is too brief to be notable (he is unseen throughout the film, but it's still all about him).

6368: 6317: 6046:- As for the P-38 lightning, it had some drawbacks, similar to the twin engine ME-110 , as 6022: 5916: 5855: 5728: 5667: 5614: 5526: 5456: 5431: 5327: 5290: 5244: 5201: 4994: 4970: 4856: 4626: 4614: 4532: 4327: 4246: 4193: 4187: 4156: 3916: 3827: 3795: 3768: 3693: 3609: 3565: 3291: 3036: 3004: 2959: 2858: 2797: 2672: 2530: 2514: 2478: 2428: 2359: 2351:

Also many more quotes saying the same thing by the Israeli pilots on the 101 squadron page

2318: 2286: 2215: 2181: 1856: 1812: 1801: 1797: 1700: 1537: 1528: 1462: 1418: 855:

risk at the time, as the RAF may end up short of planes because of a poorly designed dog.

799: 762: 720: 644: 610: 522: 513: 476: 236: 6063: 5386:

Notable Apperances" is called that for a reason - it indicates that the aircraft played a

3201: 1975:

listed. Therefore I will ask you to revise the figures back to 9,700 lbs loaded weight. --

8: 6264: 6101: 5394: 4866: 4764: 4578: 4542: 4461: 4018: 3868: 3716: 3513: 3470: 3393: 3377:

While an air accident at an airshow involving a P-51 is an interesting and current story

3182: 2883: 2759: 2704: 2488: 2451: 2390: 2173:

Beyond the Brits asking NAA for P-40s & getting Mustangs, I don't see a connection.

2043: 1992: 1960: 1384: 553: 266:, on 19th August 1942, who was an American serving in the RCAF. First pilot to become an 216: 6146:

What was needed was the proper long-range escort fighter, a class that both the RAF and

5898:

What was needed was the proper long-range escort fighter, a class that both the RAF and

3382:"Please do not add the many minor appearances of the aircraft. This section is only for 3285: 1520:

for the first Mustangs built, the first of which they received a couple of month before

1412:

complete.) This sounds like another partisan effort to claim credit where none is due.

6334: 5958: 5765: 5567: 5217: 5173: 5131: 4814: 4432: 4232: 4056: 3965: 3903: 3629: 3601: 3295: 3272: 3259: 2662: 2129: 1845: 1659:, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by 698: 671: 5701:"Empire Builders: Empire of the Sun is Spielberg's most psychologically complex work." 5121: 3236:

The book "P-51 Mustang: Development of the Long-Range Escort Fighter" by Paul Ludwig (

3107:

It's not an interesting tid bit at all. It's a quite silly long bow. It's like saying

2404: 2132:, an aeronautics engineer and test pilot, wrote up the initial specifications for the 1699:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

6303: 6224: 6171: 6166:

Min✪rhist✪rian's summary is correct and I think we should implement his suggestion.

6157: 6072: 5943: 5752: 5696: 5031: 5002: 4813:

him on the TV Brown is a Scotsman and he is more dialectal than Standard English) .

4409:

The International Cargo Complex shows up on this map of LAX as "ICC" in section A1:

3835: 3701: 3659: 3449:

there, but the FJ-1's page does explain the relationship. Then the article lists the

3347: 3145: 3116: 2830: 2745: 2247: 2113: 2037:. The crux of the matter is this; you have altered data, wrong that it may be, which 1792:

Not sure if "variant" is apt, especially since the name never applied, but IIRC, the

1774: 1739: 1606: 402: 374: 348: 309: 255: 101: 4561: 4092:- he suggests that NAA will store Mustang jigs etc., and use floor space to produce 3033:

solution; ... as an American built, single engine, propeller driven Fighter plane.

6002: 5761: 5688: 5641: 5502: 5485: 5447: 5353: 5216:

and it wasn't any help - doesn't mention the theme of expectation of the Mustangs.

5064: 5042: 4898: 4743: 4707: 4679: 4664: 4502: 4443: 4117: 4112:

closed down (he had a lot of confidence in the aircraft as stated in the letter).

4064: 3879:

Missing in Action - The HUGE Story of how the P-51 became the Great Fighter of WWII

3637: 3547: 3458: 2565: 2412: 2265: 2141: 2137: 1934: 1885: 1708: 1558: 1481: 1282: 1188: 1156: 1103: 1025: 1000: 963: 936:

The Mustang was a British concept who were instrument in conceptual design. It was

923: 897: 493: 444: 426: 382: 333: 112: 6059:

The P-38 was used to escort bombers, when there were no better fighters available.

6051: 5117: 2587:

in what way did the Allison engined P-51s "under-perform" cf the Russian fighters?

581:

around the engine/propeller as the tail comes up and by the slipstream from a non-

6352: 6330: 6017: 5845: 5423: 5308: 5275: 5168: 4962: 4848: 4607: 4522: 4410: 4288:- these aircraft were the first Mustang Is supplied to the UK under the then-new 3558: 3200:

A Google search of the terms "P-51 delayed by kickbacks" produced this website:

2654: 2507: 2471: 2174: 1849: 1805: 1625:

https://web.archive.org/20120204214445/http://www.dixiewing.org:80/aircraft_rides

1614: 1600: 1413: 685: 582: 508: 89: 1509:, the Mustang would not have been able to escort bombers all the way to Berlin. 1337:" What evidence have you got from documentation or a reputable secondary source? 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

6348: 6253: 5994: 5834: 5816: 5795: 5711: 5598: 5553: 4958: 4954: 4844: 3993: 3856: 3749: 3428: 2909: 2841: 2447: 2386: 2098: 1914: 1899: 1826: 1448: 1297: 1266: 714: 401:, not the 1 million that is mentioned in the story under the civil use section. 177: 159: 3954:

This current P-51 article DOESN'T EVEN LINK to this other Knowledge article.

2112:

Still not convinced, why don't we bring this piece of information over to the

1665:. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than 6322: 6047: 5850: 5662: 5609: 5521: 5451: 5322: 5285: 5239: 5196: 4428: 3961: 3899: 3852: 3255: 2590: 2133: 2117: 1930: 694: 667: 271: 231:) on the 10th May, 1942, the squadron having received their first Mustang I, 6212:

on more than even terms, but did not at the time have sufficient range. The

5585:

the film. In aviation writer Michael O'Leary's behind-the scenes article on

6299: 6292:

I agree with all your proposal. However, It seems to me that the sentence:"

6220: 6167: 6153: 6068: 5939: 5747: 5692: 5095: 5027: 3697: 3655: 3646: 3141: 3112: 2741: 2258: 2243: 2238:

I note some sort of communications loop slightly rearward of the aerial in

1770: 1735: 1628: 1521: 1095: 995:, and published in the UK. Many are included as sources in this article. - 992: 690: 409: 355: 316: 136:

long range escorts rather than having this mixed up with the plane itself.

111:

Probably not worth it as I suspect it will be nominated for deletion soon.

97: 290:

57 of the initial RAF order were diverted to the USAAC "for immediate use"

5060: 4537:

The figures for the P-51's range is inaccurate, that's a radius listing.

4152: 3896:

I'd write this stuff myself, but I'm really busy right now (hint, hint)

3633: 3543: 3454: 2658: 2561: 2385:

Anyone know of a longer unrefuelled flight by any single-engine fighter?

1881: 1666: 1278: 1184: 1152: 1099: 996: 893: 422: 378: 329: 5873: 3357:

changed to aluminum. american plane, american spelling.(mercurywoodrose)

1611:

after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

5342: 5301: 5268: 4518: 4289: 2090:

Dear IP, let me just make this very clear for you to understand here: -

267: 5212:

Are there any sources to support this position? I had a quick look at

2354: 5830: 5812: 5791: 5707: 5594: 5549: 3745: 3424: 2905: 2837: 1910: 1822: 1793: 1293: 1262: 155: 4425:

Having lived in both Los Angeles and Dallas, I know the difference.

2344:"Gordon Levett compares the three combat aircraft flown by the 101: 4728:

Actually introducing two commas helps it make slightly more sense :

1877: 1639:

http://www3.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=86405&key=0

3949: 1619:

to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

270:(with five or more 'kills') while flying the Mustang was Flt. Lt. 5087: 5078: 4393:

The P-51 was built at what is now LAX, and in Grand Prairie Texas

2928: 2735:

Lead sentence misleading - UK designed and first used the Mustang

1873: 681: 181: 6097:

http://www.afhra.af.mil/shared/media/document/AFD-090529-044.pdf

292:- well over a year's delay doesn't sound very "immediate" to me. 3689: 2009:

http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/mustang/mustangtest.html

753: 259: 3889:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1903223148/ref=cm_cd_asin_lnk

3238:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1903223148/ref=cm_cd_asin_lnk

5844:

To address GraemeLeggett's proposal, I do think it's kind of

1838: 220: 4190:, assistant air attaché at the American embassy in London. 3140:

Gotta love those acrobatic aircraft! Clever fokkers indeed.

1644:

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

3823:

Someone add some details of construction and alloys used.

3108: 4376:. After Pear Harbour some were re-possessed by the USAAC. 2193:. The Brits paid for the development and the manufacture. 1516:

paid North American Aviation to design the NA-73 and also

788:

Close discussion by user not here to build an encyclopedia

4623:

Merlin/four blade prop that initiated the modification.

2341:

Almost all the Israeli Pilots prefered the Spitfire Mk9.

1040:

I have no intention of putting my auntie in the article.

6325:

in a dive. These three fighters were dive tested at the

5807:

Further to an earlier query, the main character in the

3202:

http://www.aviation-history.com/north-american/p51.html

2665:, and he talks about the above on page 70 of his book; 1595:

I have just added archive links to 2 external links on

871:

The Mustang was a result of Anglo American cooperation.

5906:

If by a "proper long-range escort fighter" is meant a

5874:

http://en.wikipedia.org/F4U_Corsair#.22Football_War.22

5756:

the characters expectations...Mustang et etc. For the

4151:... and some of you might find this site interesting: 752:

Look, I'm not really being terribly serious (read the

3286:

http://www.stelzriede.com/ms/photos/planes/capp51.jpg

3630:

http://www.acig.org/artman/publish/article_163.shtml

5706:, 14 December 1987. Retrieved: 1 January 2014.: --> 5264:. Please bring sources which support your position. 4405:References: "Los Angeles International Airport" 1669:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 5540:other aircraft until the publication of the novel 5262:Encyclopedia of Military Technology and Innovation 5192:Encyclopedia of Military Technology and Innovation 5153:Several times over the years, attempts to include 2932:Artist's concept drawing of the Rolls-Royce F.T.B. 2337:Best Israeli Fighter in the inventory? Incorrect.. 684:disambiguation page now takes one straight to the 6351:over certain parts of the airframe to suffer its 4649:This is a quote (by Eric Brown) in the article : 5651:significant cinematic achievement; for example, 4739:"it could not, by no means, out turn a Spitfire" 3950:http://en.wikipedia.org/Rolls-Royce_Mustang_Mk.X 2108:(it is not related to Curtiss-Wright in anyway). 5915:a series of (hopefully cited) specific ones. -- 5231:review you will find mentions it. For example, 4492:Eric Brown quote comparing Spitfire and Mustang 2829:. Derby, UK: Rolls-Royce Heritage Trust, 1987. 1848:, with the commonly-accepted podded engines). 5480:Shouldnt the notable appearances just link to 5024:"all the detail (is) on the image page itself" 4699:"it could not by no means out turn a Spitfire" 4411:http://www.globalair.com/d-TPP_pdf/00237ad.pdf 4015:Jeffrey Ethell's Mustang:A Documentary History 3581:List of surviving North American P-51 Mustangs 3576:List of surviving North American P-51 Mustangs 3391:List of surviving North American P-51 Mustangs 2411:Distance conversion: 5,051 miles (8,129 km). 1655:This message was posted before February 2018. 1024:Without a source you have no leg to stand on. 6150:had tried and failed to successfully fulfill" 6144:This section is about the disputed sentence:" 6043:had tried and failed to successfully fulfill" 5936:had tried and failed to successfully fulfill" 5902:had tried and failed to successfully fulfill. 5890:What is a "proper long-range escort fighter"? 3996:engines, with each receiving the designation 3380:it does not qualify as a notable media event 1796:bears the same relationship to the 'stang as 96:Can someone please help link to this orphan? 6333:and one of the pilots doing these tests was 4656:It could not by no means out-turn a Spitfire 4297:, as was development of the Mustang itself. 2069:, I've brought this here for all to review) 440:North American P-51 Mustang racing aircraft 5997:, and used it as a tactical bomber escort. 5160:rational grounds for excluding the entry. 4953:usual practise, I'd suggest a link out to 2556:There is a quite-lengthy section entitled 2128:USAAC Fighter Projects officer Lieutenant 1317:no Mustang Is were manufactured in Britain 662:There is a move discussion in progress on 2927: 1629:http://www.dixiewing.org/aircraft_rides/ 184:, in what was then French North Africa. 6065:around and got on its tail in this way" 4631:2600:1002:B003:862A:A8AC:CFFF:54D2:D0BB 4419:Reference: "Historic Grand Prairie" 3773:2600:1002:B003:862A:A8AC:CFFF:54D2:D0BB 1872:P-51, at least not in the sense of the 1314:Contrary to the beliefs of 78.105.8.41 804:2600:1002:B115:C19C:39AD:3E86:E31C:6E07 14: 3041:2600:1002:B122:67F8:E0C2:D605:D761:5A5 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 6254:Strategic bombing during World War II 127:When did the plane enter US service? 25: 5990:which was accompanied by six Zeros. 3853:you research it and add it yourself 3315:Groovy. It'd make a swell entry. 2355:http://101squadron.com/101/101.html 2060:P-40 was a predecessor to the P-51? 1531:" that no-one likes to talk about. 823:Mustang was an Anglo-American Plane 680:In particular, trying to go to the 23: 219:against the Luftwaffe airfield at 24: 6410: 5993:Japan's Army had the twin-engine 4498:Gian pero milanetti added a quote 4188:Lt. Col. Thomas “Tommy” Hitchcock 3503:Nope, please see discussion page 1599:. Please take a moment to review 5482:Aircraft in fiction#P-51 Mustang 5163:Let me address some objections: 4568: 4560: 839:In the interim from Feb to May, 254:BTW, first Mustang 'kill' was a 29: 18:Talk:North American P-51 Mustang 4645:Meaningless contradictory quote 2104:P-51 was designed and built by 2097:P-40 was designed and built by 6039:a class that both the RAF and 5508:tag to the section, good idea. 4241:quote about the Mustang here: 4231:advert by Rolls-Royce for the 4122:10:22, 29 September 2013 (UTC) 3622:23:01, 18 September 2011 (UTC) 3597:04:49, 17 September 2011 (UTC) 3367:04:45, 17 September 2011 (UTC) 2257:A shortwave direction-finding 1779:21:44, 14 September 2015 (UTC) 1764:19:07, 14 September 2015 (UTC) 1744:20:12, 10 September 2015 (UTC) 892:consensus to do so. Thanks. - 453:19:26, 22 September 2014 (UTC) 431:19:35, 22 September 2014 (UTC) 415:18:47, 22 September 2014 (UTC) 387:16:56, 22 September 2014 (UTC) 361:16:39, 22 September 2014 (UTC) 338:14:12, 22 September 2014 (UTC) 322:13:50, 22 September 2014 (UTC) 13: 1: 5981:20:42, 17 February 2016 (UTC) 5894:This sentence is in dispute: 5494:17:59, 27 December 2013 (UTC) 5462:19:25, 27 December 2013 (UTC) 5434:17:45, 27 December 2013 (UTC) 5417:23:40, 25 December 2013 (UTC) 5362:04:52, 24 December 2013 (UTC) 5333:03:44, 24 December 2013 (UTC) 5312:01:52, 24 December 2013 (UTC) 5296:00:41, 24 December 2013 (UTC) 5279:22:15, 23 December 2013 (UTC) 5250:00:41, 24 December 2013 (UTC) 5226:22:12, 23 December 2013 (UTC) 5207:21:24, 23 December 2013 (UTC) 4985:Needs more background history 4823:12:42, 20 November 2015 (UTC) 4484:09:44, 24 February 2012 (UTC) 4452:09:39, 24 February 2012 (UTC) 4259:19:39, 11 December 2013 (UTC) 4073:09:58, 24 February 2012 (UTC) 4041:09:40, 24 February 2012 (UTC) 3929:14:17, 23 February 2012 (UTC) 3851:I have an idea: How about if 3754:22:24, 10 December 2011 (UTC) 3739:22:20, 10 December 2011 (UTC) 3706:20:53, 10 December 2011 (UTC) 3683:09:42, 10 December 2011 (UTC) 3642:07:33, 30 December 2011 (UTC) 3081:12:43, 19 February 2016 (UTC) 3017:17:24, 23 December 2012 (UTC) 2972:13:43, 29 December 2011 (UTC) 2727:13:06, 17 February 2016 (UTC) 2713:22:10, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2685:12:07, 26 February 2011 (UTC) 2570:03:52, 13 February 2011 (UTC) 2543:03:20, 13 February 2011 (UTC) 2456:19:45, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 2203:19:49, 17 February 2016 (UTC) 2167:19:49, 17 February 2016 (UTC) 2067:Per IP's "discussion" with me 2001:21:54, 28 February 2010 (UTC) 1985:20:50, 28 February 2010 (UTC) 1969:11:46, 26 February 2010 (UTC) 1943:19:12, 24 December 2009 (UTC) 1919:19:02, 24 December 2009 (UTC) 1490:16:37, 15 December 2014 (UTC) 1436:09:08, 15 December 2014 (UTC) 664:Talk:Mustang (disambiguation) 5144:09:09, 3 December 2013 (UTC) 4617:20:03, 6 February 2013 (UTC) 4601:04:26, 6 February 2013 (UTC) 4206:18:43, 23 October 2013 (UTC) 4169:17:34, 22 January 2013 (UTC) 4085:A February 1942 letter from 3977:North American P-51 variants 3873:23:09, 21 January 2012 (UTC) 3844:11:16, 21 January 2012 (UTC) 3808:16:19, 31 January 2012 (UTC) 3664:00:44, 8 December 2011 (UTC) 3585:The Galloping Ghost airplane 3441:Related development of T-28? 2630:Talk:Lockheed P-38 Lightning 2441:03:01, 9 December 2010 (UTC) 2421:02:14, 9 December 2010 (UTC) 2395:00:40, 9 December 2010 (UTC) 2378:Longest fighter flight ever? 2299:03:06, 27 October 2012 (UTC) 1890:03:18, 8 December 2009 (UTC) 1859:00:12, 8 December 2009 (UTC) 1831:23:44, 7 December 2009 (UTC) 1815:22:18, 7 December 2009 (UTC) 703:18:29, 26 January 2015 (UTC) 676:18:26, 16 January 2015 (UTC) 463:I cut this well-meant edit: 7: 6400:20:08, 17 August 2015 (UTC) 6208:was capable of meeting the 6202:This section was omitted: " 5861:21:29, 2 January 2014 (UTC) 5839:15:05, 2 January 2014 (UTC) 5821:14:51, 2 January 2014 (UTC) 5800:14:51, 2 January 2014 (UTC) 5774:12:19, 2 January 2014 (UTC) 5737:03:56, 2 January 2014 (UTC) 5716:01:31, 2 January 2014 (UTC) 5673:00:15, 2 January 2014 (UTC) 5620:00:15, 2 January 2014 (UTC) 5603:18:30, 1 January 2014 (UTC) 5576:18:03, 1 January 2014 (UTC) 5558:18:00, 1 January 2014 (UTC) 5532:17:10, 1 January 2014 (UTC) 5069:00:43, 22 August 2013 (UTC) 5059:Concur. I've removed it. - 5051:22:35, 21 August 2013 (UTC) 5036:22:15, 21 August 2013 (UTC) 5018:Reinstated informative text 4552:Dorsal fin extension/strake 3568:20:15, 15 August 2011 (UTC) 3552:12:53, 15 August 2011 (UTC) 3536:10:42, 15 August 2011 (UTC) 3493:09:52, 14 August 2011 (UTC) 3463:04:21, 14 August 2011 (UTC) 3204:which states the following: 3065:19:34, 17 August 2015 (UTC) 2827:Rolls-Royce and the Mustang 2517:00:01, 9 January 2011 (UTC) 2497:22:53, 8 January 2011 (UTC) 2481:11:50, 8 January 2011 (UTC) 1721:11:01, 27 August 2015 (UTC) 1597:North American P-51 Mustang 1583:20:16, 17 August 2015 (UTC) 1475:12:04, 17 August 2014 (UTC) 1166:Mustangs served in Europe. 828:design. They were paying. 761:heading is rather silly. -- 658:Move discussion in progress 577:... the swing is caused by 531:23:34, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 516:16:53, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 502:05:22, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 485:01:50, 9 January 2015 (UTC) 262:by Plt. Off. Hollis Hills, 10: 6415: 6037:-I propose to delete the " 5149:Empire of the Sun, revisit 4340:20:28, 21 April 2014 (UTC) 3384:major cultural appearances 2786:13:30, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 2768:10:36, 24 March 2011 (UTC) 2750:10:12, 24 March 2011 (UTC) 2184:21:37, 25 April 2010 (UTC) 2150:20:23, 25 April 2010 (UTC) 2123:19:59, 25 April 2010 (UTC) 2083:19:33, 25 April 2010 (UTC) 1925:Might be better as just a 1686:(last update: 5 June 2024) 1617:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 1592:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 1421:23:20, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 1407:00:34, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 1302:20:21, 4 August 2014 (UTC) 1287:19:13, 4 August 2014 (UTC) 1271:17:56, 4 August 2014 (UTC) 1256:17:05, 4 August 2014 (UTC) 1222:17:05, 4 August 2014 (UTC) 1207:17:05, 4 August 2014 (UTC) 1193:15:49, 4 August 2014 (UTC) 1176:17:05, 4 August 2014 (UTC) 1161:17:54, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 1108:03:46, 5 August 2014 (UTC) 1050:17:05, 4 August 2014 (UTC) 1034:17:34, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 1020:17:23, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 1005:16:22, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 987:16:13, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 972:16:05, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 958:15:59, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 932:15:35, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 917:15:26, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 902:15:07, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 882:13:41, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 164:18:32, 4 August 2014 (UTC) 146:15:15, 3 August 2014 (UTC) 6381:19:17, 31 July 2014 (UTC) 6308:18:17, 18 July 2014 (UTC) 6287:00:42, 18 July 2014 (UTC) 6229:06:20, 17 July 2014 (UTC) 6206:Republic P-47 Thunderbolt 6176:22:26, 15 July 2014 (UTC) 6162:20:57, 15 July 2014 (UTC) 6124:12:22, 15 July 2014 (UTC) 6077:22:50, 14 July 2014 (UTC) 6062:- The P-47 Thunderbolt : 6025:18:51, 14 July 2014 (UTC) 6011:15:36, 13 July 2014 (UTC) 5967:06:46, 13 July 2014 (UTC) 5955:Secret Projects 1935-1950 5948:05:42, 13 July 2014 (UTC) 5930:What is the source for: " 5925:02:15, 13 July 2014 (UTC) 5580:Six Mustangs appeared in 5130:is under discussion, see 5011:23:56, 11 June 2013 (UTC) 4787:20:32, 7 March 2013 (UTC) 4752:19:36, 6 March 2013 (UTC) 4716:19:33, 6 March 2013 (UTC) 4688:19:11, 6 March 2013 (UTC) 4673:13:22, 6 March 2013 (UTC) 4547:00:07, 10 July 2012 (UTC) 4527:14:11, 2 April 2012 (UTC) 4511:00:00, 2 April 2012 (UTC) 3433:13:13, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 3416:11:30, 11 July 2011 (UTC) 3325:01:59, 21 June 2011 (UTC) 3308:01:04, 13 June 2011 (UTC) 3281:01:05, 13 June 2011 (UTC) 3219:The references cited are: 3191:01:57, 10 June 2011 (UTC) 3175:01:03, 10 June 2011 (UTC) 2914:03:07, 10 June 2011 (UTC) 2892:02:19, 10 June 2011 (UTC) 2466:For want of a flush rivet 2372:13:11, 16 July 2010 (UTC) 2331:10:33, 10 June 2010 (UTC) 2052:20:22, 1 March 2010 (UTC) 2026:06:31, 1 March 2010 (UTC) 1841:, with internal engines, 1567:11:04, 16 June 2015 (UTC) 1550:10:51, 16 June 2015 (UTC) 733:10:32, 5 April 2015 (UTC) 623:10:54, 5 April 2015 (UTC) 121:19:23, 21 July 2014 (UTC) 106:14:00, 21 July 2014 (UTC) 5422:looks like fancruft... 5258:Empire of the Sun (film) 5214:Empire of the Sun (film) 5156:Empire of the Sun (film) 4973:11:39, 19 May 2013 (UTC) 4929:11:01, 19 May 2013 (UTC) 4907:10:40, 19 May 2013 (UTC) 4889:10:29, 19 May 2013 (UTC) 4859:05:47, 19 May 2013 (UTC) 4639:12:16, 30 May 2015 (UTC) 3781:12:03, 30 May 2015 (UTC) 3352:09:50, 9 July 2011 (UTC) 3150:06:30, 5 June 2011 (UTC) 3136:05:11, 5 June 2011 (UTC) 3121:06:28, 4 June 2011 (UTC) 3102:05:20, 4 June 2011 (UTC) 3087:P-51 Was Built By Fokker 3049:16:06, 1 June 2015 (UTC) 2871:14:52, 4 June 2011 (UTC) 2846:14:17, 4 June 2011 (UTC) 2810:22:59, 30 May 2011 (UTC) 2401:made by a Twin Mustang: 2274:21:45, 20 May 2010 (UTC) 2252:21:41, 20 May 2010 (UTC) 2228:14:25, 30 May 2012 (UTC) 812:12:29, 30 May 2015 (UTC) 771:23:13, 10 May 2015 (UTC) 653:23:04, 10 May 2015 (UTC) 5885:07:11, 7 May 2014 (UTC) 4496:On September 28, 2010, 4238:New York Herald Tribune 2948:... led by James Elliot 2114:discussion page of P-51 2106:North American Aviation 1588:External links modified 1333:As for your our claim " 779:"all the way to berlin" 5904: 5632:Suggestion for wording 4559:Lou IV, lead Mustang: 4011:issued directly to NAA 3692:, and the Spitfire at 3669:why the expert opinion 2933: 2506:not as suited, so... 1956:in this case an F-51-D 5896: 5758:1987 film of the book 3331:Aluminum or Aluminium 3160:P-51 production delay 2931: 1949:Loaded weight figures 579:gyroscopic precession 264:No. 414 Squadron RCAF 42:of past discussions. 6318:Critical Mach number 5867:Last Mustang Downed? 5256:The sources used in 3694:Supermarine Spitfire 3373:Notable media events 2950:- that was probably 1804:. Worth a mention? 1667:regular verification 1652:to let others know. 1603:. If necessary, add 1529:Elephant in the room 1447:- IIRC, this was at 237:No. 239 Squadron RAF 6335:Eric "Winkle" Brown 5691:, and based on the 5687:(1987) directed by 4847:, & not here? 4839:I'm Xaviera, fly me 2952:James "Jimmy" Ellor 2820:You are 100% wrong. 2663:Eric "Winkle" Brown 1907:Cripes A'Mighty 3rd 1657:After February 2018 1648:parameter below to 1367:properly referenced 554:Bristol Beaufighter 217:No. 26 Squadron RAF 6329:at the request of 5174:Kill Bill Volume 1 5132:Talk:Mustang horse 4087:J. H. Kindelberger 4057:William S. Knudsen 2934: 2667:Wings On My Sleeve 2653:at the request of 2311:Picture in infobox 2130:Benjamin S. Kelsey 1749:the Merlin problem 1662:InternetArchiveBot 586:ahead on take-off. 6371:comment added by 6261:P-51 Introduction 5932:both the RAF and 5859: 5809:Empire of the Sun 5753:Empire of the Sun 5704:New York Magazine 5684:Empire of the Sun 5671: 5653:New York Magazine 5647:Empire of the Sun 5618: 5587:Empire of the Sun 5582:Empire of the Sun 5542:Empire of the Sun 5530: 5518:Empire of the Sun 5460: 5427: 5350:Empire of the Sun 5331: 5294: 5248: 5233:New York Magazine 5205: 5014: 4997:comment added by 4966: 4852: 4641: 4629:comment added by 4611: 4567:Next Mustang E2-S 4330:comment added by 4249:comment added by 4196:comment added by 4159:comment added by 3919:comment added by 3847: 3830:comment added by 3798:comment added by 3783: 3771:comment added by 3612:comment added by 3562: 3311: 3294:comment added by 3051: 3039:comment added by 3007:comment added by 2962:comment added by 2861:comment added by 2800:comment added by 2675:comment added by 2632:page a while ago: 2533:comment added by 2511: 2475: 2431:comment added by 2362:comment added by 2321:comment added by 2289:comment added by 2218:comment added by 2178: 1853: 1809: 1719: 1687: 1552: 1540:comment added by 1465:comment added by 1096:Original Research 819: 818: 814: 802:comment added by 759:primarally sought 735: 723:comment added by 625: 613:comment added by 87: 86: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 6406: 6383: 6284: 6276: 6272: 6267: 6121: 6113: 6109: 6104: 6020: 5853: 5762:Steven Spielberg 5697:of the same name 5689:Steven Spielberg 5665: 5642:Steven Spielberg 5612: 5524: 5507: 5501: 5454: 5429: 5425: 5414: 5406: 5402: 5397: 5325: 5306: 5288: 5273: 5242: 5199: 5129: 5111: 5013: 4991: 4968: 4964: 4921:Richard Keatinge 4886: 4878: 4874: 4869: 4854: 4850: 4784: 4776: 4772: 4767: 4696:Sorry, how does 4624: 4612: 4609: 4598: 4590: 4586: 4581: 4572: 4564: 4481: 4473: 4469: 4464: 4342: 4261: 4208: 4171: 4038: 4030: 4026: 4021: 3931: 3865: 3862: 3859: 3846: 3824: 3810: 3766: 3736: 3728: 3724: 3719: 3624: 3563: 3560: 3557:from me on it. 3533: 3525: 3521: 3516: 3499:Similar aircraft 3490: 3482: 3478: 3473: 3413: 3405: 3401: 3396: 3310: 3288: 3181:to the article. 3034: 3019: 2974: 2873: 2812: 2687: 2545: 2512: 2509: 2476: 2473: 2443: 2374: 2333: 2301: 2230: 2179: 2176: 2138:Oliver P. Echols 2035:WP:Verifiability 1854: 1851: 1810: 1807: 1715: 1714:Talk to my owner 1710: 1685: 1684: 1663: 1618: 1610: 1535: 1477: 1416: 1404: 1396: 1392: 1387: 944:and paid for by 940:plane, made for 797: 784: 783: 718: 608: 511: 413: 405: 359: 351: 320: 312: 239:, in June, 1942. 68: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 6414: 6413: 6409: 6408: 6407: 6405: 6404: 6403: 6366: 6353:compressibility 6331:Jimmy Doolittle 6327:RAE Farnborough 6280: 6274: 6268: 6265: 6117: 6111: 6105: 6102: 6018: 5917:Soundofmusicals 5892: 5869: 5729:Soundofmusicals 5634: 5505: 5499: 5424: 5410: 5404: 5398: 5395: 5302: 5269: 5171:'s presence in 5169:David Carradine 5151: 5102: 5086: 5083: 5020: 4992: 4987: 4963: 4882: 4876: 4870: 4867: 4849: 4841: 4780: 4774: 4768: 4765: 4647: 4608: 4594: 4588: 4582: 4579: 4554: 4535: 4494: 4477: 4471: 4465: 4462: 4395: 4325: 4244: 4191: 4154: 4034: 4028: 4022: 4019: 4017:, for example. 3914: 3881: 3863: 3860: 3857: 3825: 3821: 3793: 3732: 3726: 3720: 3717: 3671: 3649: 3607: 3604: 3578: 3559: 3529: 3523: 3517: 3514: 3501: 3486: 3480: 3474: 3471: 3443: 3409: 3403: 3397: 3394: 3375: 3333: 3289: 3269: 3162: 3089: 3002: 2957: 2856: 2795: 2737: 2670: 2655:Jimmy Doolittle 2651:RAE Farnborough 2528: 2508: 2472: 2468: 2426: 2380: 2357: 2339: 2316: 2313: 2284: 2236: 2220:184.144.169.205 2213: 2175: 2062: 1951: 1902: 1850: 1806: 1790: 1751: 1728: 1726:F-6 production? 1718: 1713: 1678: 1671:have permission 1661: 1612: 1604: 1590: 1460: 1414: 1400: 1394: 1388: 1385: 825: 820: 789: 781: 763:Soundofmusicals 686:Mustang (horse) 660: 645:Soundofmusicals 640: 583:contra-rotating 523:Soundofmusicals 509: 477:Soundofmusicals 461: 407: 403: 353: 349: 314: 310: 305: 303:Racing Aircraft 129: 94: 64: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 6412: 6387: 6386: 6385: 6384: 6359: 6358: 6357: 6356: 6341: 6340: 6339: 6338: 6311: 6310: 6270:Min✪rhist✪rian 6242: 6241: 6240: 6239: 6238: 6237: 6236: 6235: 6234: 6233: 6232: 6231: 6189: 6188: 6187: 6186: 6185: 6184: 6183: 6182: 6181: 6180: 6179: 6178: 6133: 6132: 6131: 6130: 6129: 6128: 6127: 6126: 6107:Min✪rhist✪rian 6085: 6084: 6083: 6082: 6081: 6080: 6030: 6029: 6028: 6027: 5998: 5995:Kawasaki Ki-45 5991: 5987: 5986: 5985: 5984: 5983: 5891: 5888: 5868: 5865: 5864: 5863: 5826: 5825: 5824: 5823: 5787: 5786: 5785: 5784: 5783: 5782: 5781: 5780: 5779: 5778: 5777: 5776: 5719: 5718: 5659: 5658: 5633: 5630: 5629: 5628: 5627: 5626: 5625: 5624: 5623: 5622: 5546:Flying on Film 5537: 5536: 5535: 5534: 5509: 5478: 5477: 5476: 5475: 5474: 5473: 5472: 5471: 5470: 5469: 5468: 5467: 5466: 5465: 5464: 5400:Min✪rhist✪rian 5373: 5372: 5371: 5370: 5369: 5368: 5367: 5366: 5365: 5364: 5339: 5318: 5265: 5254: 5253: 5252: 5187: 5186: 5178: 5150: 5147: 5082: 5075: 5074: 5073: 5072: 5071: 5054: 5053: 5019: 5016: 4986: 4983: 4982: 4981: 4980: 4979: 4978: 4977: 4976: 4975: 4959:escort fighter 4955:escort fighter 4936: 4935: 4934: 4933: 4932: 4931: 4912: 4911: 4910: 4909: 4892: 4891: 4872:Min✪rhist✪rian 4845:escort fighter 4840: 4837: 4836: 4835: 4834: 4833: 4832: 4831: 4830: 4829: 4828: 4827: 4826: 4825: 4798: 4796: 4795: 4794: 4793: 4792: 4791: 4790: 4789: 4770:Min✪rhist✪rian 4735: 4734: 4733: 4732: 4731: 4730: 4729: 4721: 4720: 4719: 4718: 4691: 4690: 4646: 4643: 4620: 4619: 4584:Min✪rhist✪rian 4575: 4553: 4550: 4534: 4531: 4530: 4529: 4493: 4490: 4489: 4488: 4487: 4486: 4467:Min✪rhist✪rian 4441: 4440: 4394: 4391: 4390: 4389: 4388: 4387: 4386: 4385: 4384: 4383: 4382: 4381: 4380: 4379: 4354: 4353: 4352: 4351: 4350: 4349: 4348: 4347: 4346: 4345: 4344: 4343: 4311: 4310: 4309: 4308: 4307: 4306: 4305: 4304: 4303: 4302: 4301: 4300: 4295:Cash and Carry 4271: 4270: 4269: 4268: 4267: 4266: 4265: 4264: 4263: 4262: 4216: 4215: 4214: 4213: 4212: 4211: 4210: 4209: 4177: 4176: 4175: 4174: 4173: 4172: 4144: 4143: 4142: 4141: 4140: 4139: 4131: 4130: 4129: 4128: 4127: 4126: 4125: 4124: 4102: 4101: 4100: 4099: 4098: 4097: 4078: 4077: 4076: 4075: 4053: 4046: 4045: 4044: 4043: 4024:Min✪rhist✪rian 4004: 4003: 4002: 4001: 3994:Packard Merlin 3983: 3982: 3981: 3980: 3937: 3935: 3934: 3933: 3932: 3880: 3877: 3876: 3875: 3820: 3817: 3816: 3815: 3814: 3813: 3812: 3811: 3762: 3761: 3760: 3759: 3758: 3757: 3722:Min✪rhist✪rian 3709: 3708: 3670: 3667: 3652:With this edit 3648: 3645: 3603: 3600: 3577: 3574: 3573: 3572: 3571: 3570: 3519:Min✪rhist✪rian 3500: 3497: 3496: 3495: 3476:Min✪rhist✪rian 3442: 3439: 3438: 3437: 3436: 3435: 3399:Min✪rhist✪rian 3374: 3371: 3370: 3369: 3332: 3329: 3328: 3327: 3317:209.77.229.200 3268: 3265: 3264: 3263: 3252: 3251: 3246: 3245: 3233: 3232: 3231: 3230: 3227: 3221: 3220: 3216: 3215: 3214: 3213: 3206: 3205: 3196: 3194: 3193: 3183:Minorhistorian 3167:71.139.247.247 3161: 3158: 3157: 3156: 3155: 3154: 3153: 3152: 3094:69.238.198.195 3088: 3085: 3084: 3083: 3031: 3030: 3029: 3028: 3027: 3026: 3025: 3024: 3023: 3022: 3021: 3020: 2986: 2985: 2984: 2983: 2982: 2981: 2980: 2979: 2978: 2977: 2976: 2975: 2926: 2925: 2924: 2923: 2922: 2921: 2920: 2919: 2918: 2917: 2884:Minorhistorian 2852: 2851: 2850: 2849: 2823: 2822: 2821: 2791: 2790: 2789: 2788: 2778:94.193.157.145 2760:Minorhistorian 2736: 2733: 2732: 2731: 2730: 2729: 2705:Minorhistorian 2695: 2694: 2693: 2692: 2691: 2690: 2689: 2688: 2640: 2639: 2638: 2637: 2636: 2635: 2634: 2633: 2619: 2618: 2617: 2616: 2615: 2614: 2613: 2612: 2601: 2600: 2599: 2598: 2597: 2596: 2595: 2594: 2591:Arctic Convoys 2577: 2576: 2575: 2574: 2573: 2572: 2558:Non-US service 2549: 2548: 2547: 2546: 2535:124.197.15.138 2522: 2521: 2520: 2519: 2500: 2499: 2489:Minorhistorian 2467: 2464: 2463: 2462: 2461: 2460: 2459: 2458: 2409: 2408: 2407: 2379: 2376: 2338: 2335: 2312: 2309: 2305: 2304: 2303: 2302: 2277: 2276: 2262: 2235: 2232: 2210: 2209: 2208: 2207: 2206: 2205: 2171: 2170: 2169: 2110: 2109: 2102: 2099:Curtiss-Wright 2094: 2093: 2092: 2091: 2061: 2058: 2057: 2056: 2055: 2054: 2044:Minorhistorian 2004: 2003: 1993:Minorhistorian 1973: 1961:Minorhistorian 1950: 1947: 1946: 1945: 1901: 1898: 1897: 1896: 1895: 1894: 1893: 1892: 1864: 1863: 1862: 1861: 1789: 1786: 1784: 1782: 1781: 1750: 1747: 1727: 1724: 1711: 1705: 1704: 1697: 1642: 1641: 1633:Added archive 1631: 1623:Added archive 1589: 1586: 1570: 1569: 1542:95.148.220.121 1503: 1502: 1501: 1500: 1499: 1498: 1497: 1496: 1495: 1494: 1493: 1492: 1449:RAF Burtonwood 1438: 1390:Min✪rhist✪rian 1375: 1374: 1373: 1372: 1371: 1370: 1357: 1356: 1355: 1354: 1353: 1352: 1343: 1342: 1341: 1340: 1339: 1338: 1326: 1325: 1324: 1323: 1322: 1321: 1307: 1306: 1305: 1304: 1243: 1242: 1241: 1240: 1239: 1238: 1237: 1236: 1235: 1234: 1233: 1232: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1228: 1227: 1226: 1225: 1224: 1209: 1180: 1179: 1178: 1131: 1130: 1129: 1128: 1127: 1126: 1125: 1124: 1123: 1122: 1121: 1120: 1119: 1118: 1117: 1116: 1115: 1114: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1110: 1071: 1070: 1069: 1068: 1067: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1063: 1062: 1061: 1060: 1059: 1058: 1057: 1056: 1055: 1054: 1053: 1052: 1012:94.193.157.145 989: 979:94.193.157.145 950:94.193.157.145 909:94.193.157.145 874:94.193.157.145 824: 821: 817: 816: 791: 790: 787: 782: 780: 777: 776: 775: 774: 773: 747: 746: 745: 744: 737: 736: 710: 709: 659: 656: 639: 636: 635: 634: 633: 632: 631: 630: 629: 628: 627: 626: 596: 595: 594: 593: 592: 591: 590: 589: 588: 587: 566: 565: 564: 563: 562: 561: 560: 559: 558: 557: 540: 539: 538: 537: 536: 535: 534: 533: 472: 471: 460: 459:Take off swing 457: 456: 455: 434: 433: 394: 393: 392: 391: 390: 389: 366: 365: 364: 363: 341: 340: 304: 301: 300: 299: 298: 297: 296: 295: 294: 293: 280: 279: 278: 277: 276: 275: 247: 246: 245: 244: 243: 242: 208: 207: 206: 205: 204: 203: 192: 191: 190: 189: 188: 187: 169: 168: 167: 166: 138:94.193.157.145 128: 125: 124: 123: 93: 88: 85: 84: 79: 74: 69: 62: 52: 51: 34: 15: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 6411: 6402: 6401: 6397: 6393: 6392:Khamba Tendal 6382: 6378: 6374: 6370: 6363: 6362: 6361: 6360: 6354: 6350: 6345: 6344: 6343: 6342: 6336: 6332: 6328: 6324: 6323:sound barrier 6319: 6315: 6314: 6313: 6312: 6309: 6305: 6301: 6296: 6291: 6290: 6289: 6288: 6285: 6283: 6278: 6277: 6271: 6262: 6257: 6255: 6249: 6245: 6230: 6226: 6222: 6217: 6213: 6209: 6207: 6201: 6200: 6199: 6198: 6197: 6196: 6195: 6194: 6193: 6192: 6191: 6190: 6177: 6173: 6169: 6165: 6164: 6163: 6159: 6155: 6151: 6147: 6143: 6142: 6141: 6140: 6139: 6138: 6137: 6136: 6135: 6134: 6125: 6122: 6120: 6115: 6114: 6108: 6098: 6093: 6092: 6091: 6090: 6089: 6088: 6087: 6086: 6079: 6078: 6074: 6070: 6066: 6060: 6058: 6054: 6049: 6048:Adolf Galland 6044: 6040: 6036: 6035: 6034: 6033: 6032: 6031: 6026: 6023: 6021: 6014: 6013: 6012: 6008: 6004: 5999: 5996: 5992: 5988: 5982: 5978: 5974: 5970: 5969: 5968: 5964: 5960: 5959:GraemeLeggett 5956: 5951: 5950: 5949: 5945: 5941: 5937: 5933: 5929: 5928: 5927: 5926: 5922: 5918: 5912: 5909: 5903: 5901: 5895: 5887: 5886: 5882: 5878: 5877:70.209.202.79 5875: 5862: 5857: 5852: 5847: 5843: 5842: 5841: 5840: 5836: 5832: 5822: 5818: 5814: 5810: 5806: 5805: 5804: 5803: 5802: 5801: 5797: 5793: 5775: 5771: 5767: 5766:GraemeLeggett 5763: 5759: 5755: 5754: 5749: 5748:J.G. Ballard 5745: 5744: 5742: 5741: 5740: 5739: 5738: 5734: 5730: 5725: 5724: 5723: 5722: 5721: 5720: 5717: 5713: 5709: 5705: 5702: 5698: 5694: 5693:J.G. Ballard 5690: 5686: 5685: 5680: 5679: 5678: 5677:My revision: 5675: 5674: 5669: 5664: 5657: 5654: 5649: 5648: 5643: 5639: 5638: 5637: 5621: 5616: 5611: 5606: 5605: 5604: 5600: 5596: 5592: 5588: 5583: 5579: 5578: 5577: 5573: 5569: 5568:GraemeLeggett 5565: 5564: 5563: 5562: 5561: 5559: 5555: 5551: 5547: 5543: 5533: 5528: 5523: 5519: 5514: 5510: 5504: 5497: 5496: 5495: 5491: 5487: 5483: 5479: 5463: 5458: 5453: 5449: 5445: 5441: 5437: 5436: 5435: 5432: 5430: 5420: 5419: 5418: 5415: 5413: 5408: 5407: 5401: 5391: 5390: 5385: 5384: 5383: 5382: 5381: 5380: 5379: 5378: 5377: 5376: 5375: 5374: 5363: 5359: 5355: 5351: 5347: 5344: 5340: 5336: 5335: 5334: 5329: 5324: 5319: 5315: 5314: 5313: 5309: 5307: 5305: 5299: 5298: 5297: 5292: 5287: 5282: 5281: 5280: 5276: 5274: 5272: 5266: 5263: 5259: 5255: 5251: 5246: 5241: 5237: 5234: 5229: 5228: 5227: 5223: 5219: 5218:GraemeLeggett 5215: 5211: 5210: 5209: 5208: 5203: 5198: 5193: 5183: 5179: 5176: 5175: 5170: 5166: 5165: 5164: 5161: 5158: 5157: 5146: 5145: 5141: 5137: 5133: 5127: 5123: 5119: 5115: 5110: 5106: 5101: 5097: 5093: 5089: 5085:The usage of 5080: 5070: 5066: 5062: 5058: 5057: 5056: 5055: 5052: 5048: 5044: 5040: 5039: 5038: 5037: 5033: 5029: 5025: 5015: 5012: 5008: 5004: 5000: 4996: 4974: 4971: 4969: 4960: 4956: 4952: 4948: 4944: 4943: 4942: 4941: 4940: 4939: 4938: 4937: 4930: 4926: 4922: 4918: 4917: 4916: 4915: 4914: 4913: 4908: 4904: 4900: 4896: 4895: 4894: 4893: 4890: 4887: 4885: 4880: 4879: 4873: 4863: 4862: 4861: 4860: 4857: 4855: 4846: 4824: 4820: 4816: 4815:GraemeLeggett 4811: 4810: 4809: 4808: 4807: 4806: 4805: 4804: 4803: 4802: 4801: 4800: 4799: 4788: 4785: 4783: 4778: 4777: 4771: 4762: 4761: 4760: 4759: 4758: 4757: 4756: 4755: 4754: 4753: 4749: 4745: 4741: 4740: 4727: 4726: 4725: 4724: 4723: 4722: 4717: 4713: 4709: 4705: 4701: 4700: 4695: 4694: 4693: 4692: 4689: 4685: 4681: 4677: 4676: 4675: 4674: 4670: 4666: 4660: 4659: 4657: 4650: 4642: 4640: 4636: 4632: 4628: 4618: 4615: 4613: 4605: 4604: 4603: 4602: 4599: 4597: 4592: 4591: 4585: 4573: 4571: 4565: 4563: 4557: 4549: 4548: 4544: 4540: 4528: 4524: 4520: 4515: 4514: 4513: 4512: 4508: 4504: 4499: 4485: 4482: 4480: 4475: 4474: 4468: 4458: 4457: 4456: 4455: 4454: 4453: 4449: 4445: 4438: 4437: 4436: 4434: 4430: 4426: 4423: 4422: 4417: 4413: 4412: 4408: 4403: 4399: 4378: 4375: 4371: 4366: 4365: 4364: 4363: 4362: 4361: 4360: 4359: 4358: 4357: 4356: 4355: 4341: 4337: 4333: 4329: 4323: 4322: 4321: 4320: 4319: 4318: 4317: 4316: 4315: 4314: 4313: 4312: 4299: 4296: 4291: 4287: 4286:organisation. 4283: 4282: 4281: 4280: 4279: 4278: 4277: 4276: 4275: 4274: 4273: 4272: 4260: 4256: 4252: 4248: 4243: 4240: 4239: 4234: 4230: 4226: 4225: 4224: 4223: 4222: 4221: 4220: 4219: 4218: 4217: 4207: 4203: 4199: 4195: 4189: 4185: 4184: 4183: 4182: 4181: 4180: 4179: 4178: 4170: 4166: 4162: 4158: 4153: 4150: 4149: 4148: 4147: 4146: 4145: 4137: 4136: 4135: 4134: 4133: 4132: 4123: 4119: 4115: 4110: 4109: 4108: 4107: 4106: 4105: 4104: 4103: 4095: 4091: 4088: 4084: 4083: 4082: 4081: 4080: 4079: 4074: 4070: 4066: 4062: 4058: 4054: 4050: 4049: 4048: 4047: 4042: 4039: 4037: 4032: 4031: 4025: 4016: 4012: 4008: 4007: 4006: 4005: 3999: 3995: 3991: 3987: 3986: 3985: 3984: 3978: 3973: 3972: 3971: 3970: 3969: 3967: 3963: 3959: 3955: 3952: 3951: 3946: 3942: 3938: 3930: 3926: 3922: 3918: 3911: 3910: 3909: 3908: 3907: 3905: 3901: 3897: 3894: 3891: 3890: 3885: 3874: 3870: 3866: 3854: 3850: 3849: 3848: 3845: 3841: 3837: 3833: 3829: 3819:Construction? 3809: 3805: 3801: 3797: 3790: 3789: 3788: 3787: 3786: 3785: 3784: 3782: 3778: 3774: 3770: 3755: 3751: 3747: 3742: 3741: 3740: 3737: 3735: 3730: 3729: 3723: 3713: 3712: 3711: 3710: 3707: 3703: 3699: 3695: 3691: 3687: 3686: 3685: 3684: 3680: 3676: 3675:188.23.112.91 3666: 3665: 3661: 3657: 3653: 3644: 3643: 3639: 3635: 3631: 3625: 3623: 3619: 3615: 3611: 3599: 3598: 3594: 3590: 3589:75.61.134.173 3586: 3582: 3569: 3566: 3564: 3555: 3554: 3553: 3549: 3545: 3540: 3539: 3538: 3537: 3534: 3532: 3527: 3526: 3520: 3510: 3506: 3494: 3491: 3489: 3484: 3483: 3477: 3467: 3466: 3465: 3464: 3460: 3456: 3452: 3448: 3434: 3430: 3426: 3422: 3421: 3420: 3419: 3418: 3417: 3414: 3412: 3407: 3406: 3400: 3392: 3387: 3385: 3379: 3368: 3364: 3360: 3359:75.61.134.173 3356: 3355: 3354: 3353: 3349: 3345: 3340: 3339: 3337: 3326: 3322: 3318: 3314: 3313: 3312: 3309: 3305: 3301: 3297: 3296:Articseahorse 3293: 3287: 3283: 3282: 3278: 3274: 3273:Articseahorse 3267:Captured P51s 3261: 3257: 3254: 3253: 3248: 3247: 3243: 3239: 3235: 3234: 3228: 3225: 3224: 3223: 3222: 3218: 3217: 3210: 3209: 3208: 3207: 3203: 3199: 3198: 3197: 3192: 3188: 3184: 3179: 3178: 3177: 3176: 3172: 3168: 3151: 3147: 3143: 3139: 3138: 3137: 3133: 3129: 3128:67.117.24.125 3124: 3123: 3122: 3118: 3114: 3110: 3106: 3105: 3104: 3103: 3099: 3095: 3082: 3078: 3074: 3069: 3068: 3067: 3066: 3062: 3058: 3057:Khamba Tendal 3052: 3050: 3046: 3042: 3038: 3018: 3014: 3010: 3006: 3001: 2998: 2997: 2996: 2995: 2994: 2993: 2992: 2991: 2990: 2989: 2988: 2987: 2973: 2969: 2965: 2961: 2956: 2953: 2949: 2946: 2945: 2944: 2943: 2942: 2941: 2940: 2939: 2938: 2937: 2936: 2935: 2930: 2915: 2911: 2907: 2902: 2897: 2896: 2895: 2894: 2893: 2889: 2885: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2877: 2876: 2875: 2874: 2872: 2868: 2864: 2860: 2847: 2843: 2839: 2835: 2834:0-9511710-0-3 2832: 2828: 2824: 2819: 2818: 2817: 2816: 2815: 2814: 2813: 2811: 2807: 2803: 2799: 2787: 2783: 2779: 2774: 2773: 2772: 2771: 2770: 2769: 2765: 2761: 2755: 2752: 2751: 2747: 2743: 2728: 2724: 2720: 2716: 2715: 2714: 2710: 2706: 2702: 2697: 2696: 2686: 2682: 2678: 2677:86.112.46.142 2674: 2668: 2664: 2660: 2656: 2652: 2648: 2647: 2646: 2645: 2644: 2643: 2642: 2641: 2631: 2627: 2626: 2625: 2624: 2623: 2622: 2621: 2620: 2609: 2608: 2607: 2606: 2605: 2604: 2603: 2602: 2592: 2588: 2585: 2584: 2583: 2582: 2581: 2580: 2579: 2578: 2571: 2567: 2563: 2559: 2555: 2554: 2553: 2552: 2551: 2550: 2544: 2540: 2536: 2532: 2526: 2525: 2524: 2523: 2518: 2515: 2513: 2504: 2503: 2502: 2501: 2498: 2494: 2490: 2485: 2484: 2483: 2482: 2479: 2477: 2457: 2453: 2449: 2445: 2444: 2442: 2438: 2434: 2433:125.239.207.2 2430: 2424: 2423: 2422: 2418: 2414: 2410: 2406: 2403: 2402: 2399: 2398: 2397: 2396: 2392: 2388: 2383: 2375: 2373: 2369: 2365: 2364:80.229.17.248 2361: 2356: 2352: 2349: 2345: 2342: 2334: 2332: 2328: 2324: 2323:90.184.74.219 2320: 2308: 2300: 2296: 2292: 2291:50.131.79.211 2288: 2281: 2280: 2279: 2278: 2275: 2271: 2267: 2263: 2260: 2256: 2255: 2254: 2253: 2249: 2245: 2241: 2234:What is this? 2231: 2229: 2225: 2221: 2217: 2204: 2200: 2196: 2192: 2187: 2186: 2185: 2182: 2180: 2172: 2168: 2164: 2160: 2155: 2154: 2153: 2152: 2151: 2147: 2143: 2139: 2135: 2134:Curtiss XP-46 2131: 2127: 2126: 2125: 2124: 2121: 2120: 2115: 2107: 2103: 2100: 2096: 2095: 2089: 2088: 2087: 2086: 2085: 2084: 2080: 2076: 2071: 2070: 2068: 2053: 2049: 2045: 2040: 2036: 2032: 2031: 2030: 2029: 2028: 2027: 2023: 2019: 2014: 2011: 2010: 2002: 1998: 1994: 1989: 1988: 1987: 1986: 1982: 1978: 1971: 1970: 1966: 1962: 1957: 1944: 1940: 1936: 1932: 1931:George Preddy 1928: 1924: 1923: 1922: 1920: 1916: 1912: 1908: 1891: 1887: 1883: 1879: 1875: 1870: 1869: 1868: 1867: 1866: 1865: 1860: 1857: 1855: 1847: 1844: 1840: 1835: 1834: 1832: 1828: 1824: 1819: 1818: 1817: 1816: 1813: 1811: 1803: 1799: 1795: 1788:Wings of fury 1785: 1780: 1776: 1772: 1768: 1767: 1766: 1765: 1761: 1757: 1756:Theonemacduff 1746: 1745: 1741: 1737: 1733: 1723: 1722: 1716: 1709: 1702: 1698: 1695: 1691: 1690: 1689: 1682: 1676: 1672: 1668: 1664: 1658: 1653: 1651: 1647: 1640: 1636: 1632: 1630: 1626: 1622: 1621: 1620: 1616: 1608: 1602: 1598: 1593: 1585: 1584: 1580: 1576: 1575:Khamba Tendal 1568: 1564: 1560: 1555: 1554: 1553: 1551: 1547: 1543: 1539: 1532: 1530: 1525: 1523: 1519: 1515: 1510: 1508: 1491: 1487: 1483: 1479: 1478: 1476: 1472: 1468: 1464: 1458: 1457:RAF Prestwick 1454: 1450: 1446: 1443: 1439: 1437: 1433: 1429: 1424: 1423: 1422: 1419: 1417: 1410: 1409: 1408: 1405: 1403: 1398: 1397: 1391: 1381: 1380: 1379: 1378: 1377: 1376: 1368: 1363: 1362: 1361: 1360: 1359: 1358: 1349: 1348: 1347: 1346: 1345: 1344: 1336: 1332: 1331: 1330: 1329: 1328: 1327: 1319: 1318: 1313: 1312: 1311: 1310: 1309: 1308: 1303: 1299: 1295: 1290: 1289: 1288: 1284: 1280: 1275: 1274: 1273: 1272: 1268: 1264: 1258: 1257: 1253: 1249: 1223: 1219: 1215: 1210: 1208: 1204: 1200: 1196: 1195: 1194: 1190: 1186: 1181: 1177: 1173: 1169: 1164: 1163: 1162: 1158: 1154: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1146: 1145: 1144: 1143: 1142: 1141: 1140: 1139: 1138: 1137: 1136: 1135: 1134: 1133: 1132: 1109: 1105: 1101: 1097: 1093: 1092: 1091: 1090: 1089: 1088: 1087: 1086: 1085: 1084: 1083: 1082: 1081: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1077: 1076: 1075: 1074: 1073: 1072: 1051: 1047: 1043: 1039: 1038: 1037: 1036: 1035: 1031: 1027: 1023: 1022: 1021: 1017: 1013: 1008: 1007: 1006: 1002: 998: 994: 990: 988: 984: 980: 975: 974: 973: 969: 965: 961: 960: 959: 955: 951: 947: 943: 939: 935: 934: 933: 929: 925: 920: 919: 918: 914: 910: 905: 904: 903: 899: 895: 891: 886: 885: 884: 883: 879: 875: 872: 868: 864: 860: 856: 852: 848: 844: 842: 837: 833: 829: 815: 813: 809: 805: 801: 793: 792: 786: 785: 772: 768: 764: 760: 755: 751: 750: 749: 748: 741: 740: 739: 738: 734: 730: 726: 722: 716: 712: 711: 707: 706: 705: 704: 700: 696: 692: 687: 683: 678: 677: 673: 669: 665: 655: 654: 650: 646: 624: 620: 616: 612: 606: 605: 604: 603: 602: 601: 600: 599: 598: 597: 584: 580: 576: 575: 574: 573: 572: 571: 570: 569: 568: 567: 555: 550: 549: 548: 547: 546: 545: 544: 543: 542: 541: 532: 528: 524: 519: 518: 517: 514: 512: 505: 504: 503: 499: 495: 491: 490: 489: 488: 487: 486: 482: 478: 470: 466: 465: 464: 454: 450: 446: 441: 436: 435: 432: 428: 424: 419: 418: 417: 416: 412: 411: 406: 400: 399:| 2.5 million 388: 384: 380: 376: 372: 371: 370: 369: 368: 367: 362: 358: 357: 352: 345: 344: 343: 342: 339: 335: 331: 326: 325: 324: 323: 319: 318: 313: 291: 288: 287: 286: 285: 284: 283: 282: 281: 273: 272:Geoffrey Page 269: 265: 261: 257: 253: 252: 251: 250: 249: 248: 241: 238: 234: 230: 226: 222: 221:Berck-sur-Mer 218: 214: 213: 212: 211: 210: 209: 202: 198: 197: 196: 195: 194: 193: 186: 183: 179: 175: 174: 173: 172: 171: 170: 165: 161: 157: 152: 151: 150: 149: 148: 147: 143: 139: 133: 122: 118: 114: 110: 109: 108: 107: 103: 99: 92: 83: 80: 78: 75: 73: 70: 67: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 6388: 6373:2.24.215.177 6367:— Preceding 6355:ill-effects. 6293: 6281: 6273: 6269: 6260: 6258: 6250: 6246: 6243: 6215: 6211: 6203: 6149: 6145: 6118: 6110: 6106: 6061: 6056: 6045: 6042: 6038: 5973:2.221.196.12 5954: 5935: 5931: 5913: 5907: 5905: 5899: 5897: 5893: 5870: 5827: 5808: 5788: 5760:directed by 5751: 5703: 5682: 5676: 5660: 5652: 5645: 5635: 5591:Air Classics 5590: 5586: 5581: 5545: 5541: 5538: 5517: 5512: 5443: 5439: 5411: 5403: 5399: 5389:central role 5388: 5387: 5349: 5303: 5270: 5261: 5232: 5191: 5188: 5181: 5172: 5162: 5154: 5152: 5084: 5023: 5021: 4993:— Preceding 4988: 4950: 4946: 4883: 4875: 4871: 4842: 4797: 4781: 4773: 4769: 4738: 4737: 4736: 4703: 4698: 4697: 4661: 4655: 4652: 4651: 4648: 4625:— Preceding 4621: 4595: 4587: 4583: 4574: 4566: 4558: 4555: 4536: 4533:Range/Radius 4495: 4478: 4470: 4466: 4442: 4427: 4424: 4418: 4414: 4404: 4400: 4396: 4373: 4369: 4326:— Preceding 4284: 4245:— Preceding 4236: 4235:including a 4228: 4192:— Preceding 4155:— Preceding 4060: 4035: 4027: 4023: 4010: 3997: 3989: 3960: 3956: 3953: 3947: 3943: 3939: 3936: 3921:50.32.24.199 3915:— Preceding 3898: 3895: 3892: 3886: 3882: 3826:— Preceding 3822: 3800:50.32.37.132 3794:— Preceding 3767:— Preceding 3763: 3733: 3725: 3721: 3672: 3650: 3626: 3614:174.63.6.196 3608:— Preceding 3605: 3579: 3530: 3522: 3518: 3508: 3502: 3487: 3479: 3475: 3444: 3410: 3402: 3398: 3383: 3381: 3376: 3341: 3338: 3335: 3334: 3290:— Preceding 3284: 3270: 3195: 3163: 3090: 3073:2.126.207.30 3053: 3035:— Preceding 3032: 3003:— Preceding 2958:— Preceding 2947: 2900: 2857:— Preceding 2853: 2826: 2802:50.32.34.105 2796:— Preceding 2792: 2756: 2753: 2738: 2719:2.221.196.12 2699: 2666: 2659:Mach numbers 2586: 2469: 2384: 2381: 2353: 2350: 2346: 2343: 2340: 2314: 2306: 2285:— Preceding 2259:loop antenna 2237: 2214:— Preceding 2211: 2195:2.221.196.12 2190: 2159:2.221.196.12 2118: 2111: 2072: 2064: 2063: 2038: 2015: 2012: 2005: 1972: 1952: 1926: 1906: 1903: 1842: 1791: 1783: 1752: 1729: 1706: 1681:source check 1660: 1654: 1649: 1645: 1643: 1594: 1591: 1571: 1536:— Preceding 1533: 1526: 1522:Pearl Harbor 1511: 1506: 1504: 1467:2.24.215.249 1461:— Preceding 1441: 1401: 1393: 1389: 1366: 1334: 1316: 1315: 1259: 1244: 993:Bill Gunston 945: 941: 937: 889: 870: 869: 865: 861: 857: 853: 849: 845: 841:three months 840: 838: 834: 830: 826: 798:— Preceding 794: 758: 719:— Preceding 679: 661: 641: 609:— Preceding 473: 467: 462: 408: 395: 354: 315: 306: 289: 232: 134: 130: 95: 65: 43: 37: 6003:Binksternet 5486:MilborneOne 5440:significant 5354:Binksternet 5136:65.94.78.70 5043:Binksternet 4899:MilborneOne 4744:JustinSmith 4708:JustinSmith 4680:MilborneOne 4665:JustinSmith 4503:Binksternet 4444:Binksternet 4332:80.7.147.13 4251:80.7.147.13 4198:80.7.147.13 4161:80.7.147.13 4065:Binksternet 3009:80.7.147.13 2964:80.4.57.101 2863:50.32.10.45 2671:—Preceding 2529:—Preceding 2427:—Preceding 2413:Binksternet 2358:—Preceding 2317:—Preceding 2266:Binksternet 2142:Binksternet 2075:71.94.3.192 2018:Wulf Jaeger 1977:Wulf Jaeger 1935:MilborneOne 1559:MilborneOne 1482:Binksternet 1428:78.105.8.41 1248:78.105.8.41 1214:78.105.8.41 1199:78.105.8.41 1168:78.105.8.41 1042:78.105.8.41 1026:Binksternet 964:MilborneOne 924:Binksternet 725:2.31.130.99 638:"Illegal"?? 615:2.31.130.99 494:Binksternet 445:MilborneOne 113:MilborneOne 36:This is an 6019:TREKphiler 5831:FWiW Bzuk 5813:FWiW Bzuk 5792:FWiW Bzuk 5708:FWiW Bzuk 5595:FWiW Bzuk 5550:FWiW Bzuk 5498:I added a 5343:Airco DH.4 4610:TREKphiler 4290:Lend-Lease 3602:Costa Rica 3561:TREKphiler 2510:TREKphiler 2474:TREKphiler 2240:this image 2177:TREKphiler 1852:TREKphiler 1808:TREKphiler 1415:TREKphiler 1294:FWiW Bzuk 1263:FWiW Bzuk 1246:childish. 510:TREKphiler 375:WP:GALLERY 229:III./JG 53 156:FWiW Bzuk 6295:plane..." 6214:Luftwaffe 6210:Luftwaffe 6148:Luftwaffe 6041:Luftwaffe 5934:Luftwaffe 5900:Luftwaffe 5640:The 1987 5448:WP:SIGCOV 5182:Star Wars 4539:AVKent882 4402:Complex. 3447:FJ-1 Fury 2448:Tim Zukas 2387:Tim Zukas 1794:FJ-1 Fury 1707:Cheers. — 1701:this tool 1694:this tool 1518:paid cash 1453:RAF Speke 225:II./JG 52 82:Archive 5 77:Archive 4 72:Archive 3 66:Archive 2 60:Archive 1 6369:unsigned 5851:Amatulić 5846:WP:UNDUE 5746:"In the 5663:Amatulić 5610:Amatulić 5522:Amatulić 5452:Amatulić 5345:of 1916. 5323:Amatulić 5286:Amatulić 5240:Amatulić 5197:Amatulić 5007:contribs 4995:unsigned 4663:sense.-- 4627:unsigned 4429:DarthRad 4328:unsigned 4247:unsigned 4194:unsigned 4157:unsigned 4096:instead. 3990:mid-1941 3962:DarthRad 3917:unsigned 3900:DarthRad 3840:contribs 3828:unsigned 3796:unsigned 3769:unsigned 3610:unsigned 3304:contribs 3292:unsigned 3256:DarthRad 3037:unsigned 3005:unsigned 2960:unsigned 2901:convince 2859:unsigned 2798:unsigned 2673:unsigned 2611:Mustang. 2531:unsigned 2429:unsigned 2360:unsigned 2319:unsigned 2287:unsigned 2216:unsigned 1929:link to 1927:See also 1878:Saab 21R 1802:Spiteful 1800:does to 1798:Attacker 1732:page 132 1607:cbignore 1538:unsigned 1463:unsigned 800:unsigned 721:unsigned 695:Dicklyon 668:Dicklyon 611:unsigned 469:takeoff. 6300:Ykantor 6221:Ykantor 6168:Moriori 6154:Ykantor 6069:Ykantor 5940:Ykantor 5503:seealso 5444:notable 5105:protect 5100:history 5088:Mustang 5079:Mustang 5028:Moriori 4999:.45Colt 4897:Agree. 4227:A 1944 3832:Ericg33 3698:Moriori 3656:Moriori 3344:Ericg33 3142:Moriori 3113:Moriori 2742:Philcha 2244:Moriori 1954:manual 1874:Saab 21 1771:Denniss 1736:Denniss 1717::Online 1646:checked 1601:my edit 1440:A 1941 938:"their" 682:Mustang 410:WPPilot 356:WPPilot 317:WPPilot 308:alone. 182:Morocco 98:Gbawden 91:P-51VLR 39:archive 6349:Mach 1 6050:said. 5750:novel 5695:novel 5428:philer 5109:delete 5061:BilCat 4967:philer 4853:philer 4233:Merlin 4229:Flight 4114:JetMec 3998:XP-51B 3690:Bf 109 3634:NiD.29 3544:SrAtoz 3455:SrAtoz 2562:BilCat 1900:Preddy 1882:BilCat 1754:there. 1615:nobots 1442:Flight 1279:BilCat 1185:BilCat 1153:BilCat 1100:BilCat 997:BilCat 946:"them" 942:"them" 894:BilCat 754:satire 715:anorak 423:BilCat 379:BilCat 330:BilCat 260:Dieppe 256:Fw 190 6282:MTalk 6119:MTalk 5644:film 5412:MTalk 5304:Hohum 5271:Hohum 5185:film. 5126:views 5118:watch 5114:links 4884:MTalk 4782:MTalk 4596:MTalk 4519:Yaush 4479:MTalk 4374:FD567 4370:FD418 4094:B-25s 4036:MTalk 3734:MTalk 3531:MTalk 3509:early 3488:MTalk 3411:MTalk 1839:MiG-9 1402:MTalk 890:clear 691:WP:RM 404:talk→ 350:talk→ 311:talk→ 258:over 233:AG367 178:Oujda 16:< 6396:talk 6377:talk 6304:talk 6225:talk 6204:The 6172:talk 6158:talk 6073:talk 6007:talk 5977:talk 5963:talk 5944:talk 5921:talk 5881:talk 5856:talk 5835:talk 5817:talk 5796:talk 5770:talk 5733:talk 5712:talk 5681:The 5668:talk 5615:talk 5599:talk 5572:talk 5554:talk 5527:talk 5490:talk 5457:talk 5442:and 5426:TREK 5358:talk 5328:talk 5291:talk 5245:talk 5222:talk 5202:talk 5140:talk 5122:logs 5096:talk 5092:edit 5065:talk 5047:talk 5032:talk 5003:talk 4965:TREK 4925:talk 4903:talk 4851:TREK 4819:talk 4748:talk 4712:talk 4684:talk 4669:talk 4635:talk 4543:talk 4523:talk 4507:talk 4448:talk 4433:talk 4336:talk 4255:talk 4202:talk 4165:talk 4118:talk 4069:talk 3966:talk 3925:talk 3904:talk 3869:talk 3855:? - 3836:talk 3804:talk 3777:talk 3750:talk 3746:Bzuk 3702:talk 3679:talk 3660:talk 3647:Oops 3638:talk 3618:talk 3593:talk 3548:talk 3505:here 3459:talk 3451:T-28 3429:talk 3425:Bzuk 3363:talk 3348:talk 3321:talk 3300:talk 3277:talk 3260:talk 3187:talk 3171:talk 3146:talk 3132:talk 3117:talk 3109:Tata 3098:talk 3077:talk 3061:talk 3045:talk 3013:talk 2968:talk 2910:talk 2906:Bzuk 2888:talk 2867:talk 2842:talk 2838:Bzuk 2831:ISBN 2806:talk 2782:talk 2764:talk 2746:talk 2723:talk 2709:talk 2681:talk 2566:talk 2560:. - 2539:talk 2493:talk 2452:talk 2437:talk 2417:talk 2391:talk 2368:talk 2327:talk 2295:talk 2270:talk 2248:talk 2224:talk 2199:talk 2191:THEM 2163:talk 2146:talk 2119:Dave 2079:talk 2048:talk 2022:talk 1997:talk 1981:talk 1965:talk 1939:talk 1915:talk 1911:Bzuk 1886:talk 1876:and 1846:Su-9 1827:talk 1823:Bzuk 1775:talk 1760:talk 1740:talk 1650:true 1579:talk 1563:talk 1546:talk 1512:The 1507:from 1486:talk 1471:talk 1451:and 1432:talk 1298:talk 1283:talk 1267:talk 1252:talk 1218:talk 1203:talk 1189:talk 1172:talk 1157:talk 1104:talk 1046:talk 1030:talk 1016:talk 1001:talk 983:talk 968:talk 954:talk 928:talk 913:talk 898:talk 878:talk 808:talk 767:talk 729:talk 699:talk 672:talk 649:talk 619:talk 527:talk 498:talk 481:talk 449:talk 427:talk 383:talk 334:talk 227:and 160:talk 142:talk 117:talk 102:talk 6055:... 5908:day 5589:, ( 5134:-- 4951:per 4947:why 4704:sic 4372:to 4061:not 3864:PhD 3861:mer 3858:Sum 2307:T9 1675:RfC 1637:to 1627:to 1514:BPC 1459:. 1351:on. 268:ace 6398:) 6379:) 6306:) 6227:) 6174:) 6160:) 6075:) 6067:. 6009:) 5979:) 5965:) 5946:) 5938:? 5923:) 5883:) 5837:) 5819:) 5798:) 5772:) 5735:) 5714:) 5601:) 5574:) 5560:. 5556:) 5506:}} 5500:{{ 5492:) 5360:) 5310:) 5277:) 5224:) 5142:) 5124:| 5120:| 5116:| 5112:| 5107:| 5103:| 5098:| 5094:| 5067:) 5049:) 5034:) 5009:) 5005:• 4927:) 4905:) 4821:) 4750:) 4742:-- 4714:) 4686:) 4671:) 4637:) 4545:) 4525:) 4517:-- 4509:) 4450:) 4435:) 4338:) 4257:) 4204:) 4167:) 4120:) 4071:) 3968:) 3927:) 3906:) 3871:) 3842:) 3838:• 3806:) 3779:) 3752:) 3704:) 3696:. 3681:) 3662:) 3640:) 3632:). 3620:) 3595:) 3550:) 3461:) 3431:) 3365:) 3350:) 3342:-- 3323:) 3306:) 3302:• 3279:) 3189:) 3173:) 3148:) 3134:) 3119:) 3100:) 3079:) 3063:) 3047:) 3015:) 2970:) 2954:; 2912:) 2890:) 2869:) 2844:) 2808:) 2784:) 2766:) 2748:) 2725:) 2711:) 2683:) 2669:. 2568:) 2541:) 2495:) 2454:) 2439:) 2419:) 2393:) 2370:) 2329:) 2297:) 2272:) 2250:) 2226:) 2201:) 2165:) 2148:) 2081:) 2050:) 2039:is 2024:) 1999:) 1983:) 1967:) 1941:) 1933:. 1921:. 1917:) 1888:) 1833:. 1829:) 1777:) 1762:) 1742:) 1688:. 1683:}} 1679:{{ 1613:{{ 1609:}} 1605:{{ 1581:) 1565:) 1548:) 1488:) 1473:) 1434:) 1300:) 1285:) 1269:) 1254:) 1220:) 1205:) 1191:) 1174:) 1159:) 1106:) 1048:) 1032:) 1018:) 1003:) 985:) 970:) 956:) 930:) 915:) 900:) 880:) 810:) 769:) 731:) 701:) 674:) 651:) 643:-- 621:) 529:) 500:) 483:) 451:) 429:) 385:) 336:) 180:, 162:) 144:) 119:) 104:) 6394:( 6375:( 6302:( 6275:◆ 6266:◆ 6223:( 6170:( 6156:( 6112:◆ 6103:◆ 6071:( 6005:( 5975:( 5961:( 5942:( 5919:( 5879:( 5858:) 5854:( 5849:~ 5833:( 5815:( 5794:( 5768:( 5731:( 5710:( 5670:) 5666:( 5617:) 5613:( 5608:~ 5597:( 5570:( 5552:( 5529:) 5525:( 5488:( 5459:) 5455:( 5405:◆ 5396:◆ 5356:( 5330:) 5326:( 5321:~ 5293:) 5289:( 5247:) 5243:( 5220:( 5204:) 5200:( 5195:~ 5138:( 5128:) 5090:( 5081:" 5077:" 5063:( 5045:( 5030:( 5001:( 4923:( 4901:( 4877:◆ 4868:◆ 4817:( 4775:◆ 4766:◆ 4746:( 4710:( 4682:( 4667:( 4633:( 4589:◆ 4580:◆ 4541:( 4521:( 4505:( 4472:◆ 4463:◆ 4446:( 4431:( 4334:( 4253:( 4200:( 4163:( 4116:( 4067:( 4029:◆ 4020:◆ 3964:( 3923:( 3902:( 3867:( 3834:( 3802:( 3775:( 3756:. 3748:( 3727:◆ 3718:◆ 3700:( 3677:( 3658:( 3636:( 3616:( 3591:( 3546:( 3524:◆ 3515:◆ 3481:◆ 3472:◆ 3457:( 3427:( 3404:◆ 3395:◆ 3361:( 3346:( 3319:( 3298:( 3275:( 3262:) 3258:( 3185:( 3169:( 3144:( 3130:( 3115:( 3096:( 3075:( 3059:( 3043:( 3011:( 2966:( 2916:. 2908:( 2886:( 2865:( 2848:. 2840:( 2804:( 2780:( 2762:( 2744:( 2721:( 2707:( 2679:( 2564:( 2537:( 2491:( 2450:( 2435:( 2415:( 2389:( 2366:( 2325:( 2293:( 2268:( 2246:( 2222:( 2197:( 2161:( 2144:( 2101:; 2077:( 2065:( 2046:( 2020:( 1995:( 1979:( 1963:( 1937:( 1913:( 1884:( 1843:v 1825:( 1773:( 1758:( 1738:( 1703:. 1696:. 1577:( 1561:( 1544:( 1484:( 1469:( 1430:( 1395:◆ 1386:◆ 1296:( 1281:( 1265:( 1250:( 1216:( 1201:( 1187:( 1170:( 1155:( 1102:( 1044:( 1028:( 1014:( 999:( 981:( 966:( 952:( 926:( 911:( 896:( 876:( 806:( 765:( 727:( 697:( 670:( 647:( 617:( 525:( 496:( 479:( 447:( 425:( 381:( 332:( 274:. 223:( 158:( 140:( 115:( 100:( 50:.

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.

Index