Talk:Marble Hill, South Australia/Archive 1

759:

Kaurna Native Title and Senior Planning Officer Richard Fox having Marble Hill Crown Land Native Title boundaries ammended. My current understanding for example from FOMH Vice President Ruth Russell is that the Marble Hill carpark of all things may actually have Native Title considerations. I'm unsure why it was necessary for you YH to introduce "every other place on the peninsula" as a logic red herring when clearly this article is devoted to Marble Hill. It is almost as though you actually have some sort of Agenda against reality beyond just mainstream Murdoch Media? Many know I hope how much a paragon of virtue, objective truth, justice etc the commercial free media are from ABCTV's Media Watch. Newsmaker's Leila Henderson is an independent Editor-Publisher. My understanding is that the photo shows Kaurna Native Title Management Committee Vice Chair and Named Claimant Ngankiburka Georgina Williams is who handed the Declaration of Sovereignty and "I Have Come" speech including Marble Hill bill of 130 back rent to our SA Governor flanked by Kaurna Native Title Management Committee (F) Co-Chair Kudnarto Joan Lamont Williams and Kaurna Native Title Management Committee Proxy Carol Agius dressed in their possum-skin cloaks. I do not claim ancestry nor identify as Kaurna nor was I aware of any the specifics until from Oct 2007 so I'm not yet with you YH on your claim around independent third party sourcing. If you are seriously serious about your claims or views then you could seriously consider showing some respect and seek to communicate directly yourself with the Kaurna concerned via the Native Title Management Committee through the Warriparinga Living Kaurna Culture Centre.

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gave instructions to the Resident Commissioner. They instructed : You will see that no land which the natives may possess in occupation or enjoyment be offered for sale until previously ceded by the Natives to yourself. You will furnish the protector of the aborigines evidence of the faithful fulfillment of the Bargain or treaties which you may effect with the Aborigines for the cession of lands, and you will take care that the Aborigines are not disturbed in the enjoyment of the land over which they may possess proprietary rights and for which they are not disposed to make a voluntary transfer. In 1838 the British Parliament enshrined the words of the Letters Patent into legislation. In that same year a new Governor and Resident Commissioner was appointed. He was given the same instructions in his capacity as Resident Commissioner as Fisher had been given. Each of these documents are legal documents; letters patent, orders in council, reports to parliament and legislation. If valid, to not follow them, when they should have been followed, is to act contrary to the law. The British Parliament created a system to protect Aboriginal rights to land in South Australia. A system to protect the rights of those Aboriginal People living in 1836 and for their descendents living now. We know today these laws were not followed."

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conduct themselves on all occasions with order and quietness, duly to respect the laws, and by a course of industry and sobriety, by the practice of sound morality and a strict observance of the Ordinances of Religion, to prove themselves worthy to be the Founders of a great free colony. It is also, at this time especially, my duty to apprize the Colonists of my resolution, to take every lawful means for extending the same protection to the Native Population as to the rest of His Majesty’s subjects and of my firm determination to punish with exemplary severity all acts of violence or injustice which may in any manner be practiced or attempted against the Natives who are to be considered as much under the safeguard of the Law as the Colonists themselves, and equally entitled to the privileges of British subjects. I trust therefore, with confidence to the exercise of moderation and forbearance by all Classes in their intercourse with the Native Inhabitants, and that they will omit no opportunity of assisting me to fulfil His Majesty’s most gracious and benevolent intentions toward them by promoting their advancement in civilization and ultimately, under the blessing of Divine Providence, their conversion to the Christian Faith. By His Excellency’s Command, Robert Gouger Colonial Secretary God Save the King.

3172:" insofar I became increasingly aware of our whitefella irresponsibility to Kaurna through simply standing as a 2007 Australian Parliamentary Kingston Candidate with our Australian Democrats. As I stood for our 2006 Kangaroo Island Mayoral Candidacy in order to help facilitate a more democratic process. I received 15% of the vote after only 2.5 years on KI. I do identify as a Queen's Scout and am subject to my Scout's Promise and Law to the Queen as our 1953 Crown Coronated Constitutional Monarch. The three Crown Rights are to be consulted, encourage and to warn. I have in my rising awareness sought to do so and bear witness to this Premier Public Estate Property being sold out of Public Posterity into a relatively unregulated private market. I would appreciate it if you could/ would help recognise Kaurna sovereignty as per our responsibilities and obligations to our Founding Documents conditions rather than hinder. 2478:"the government in 1836 ‘knew’ that the founding documents of the State of South Australia protected the Aboriginal inhabitants right to land; and" ... "These documents include the Letters Patent of William IV. In asserting sovereignty for the British over this State he directed: ‘nothing in those our Letters Patent contained shall affect or be construed to affect the rights of any Aboriginal natives of the said Province to the actual occupation or enjoyment in their own Persons or in the Persons of their Descendants of any Lands therein now actually occupied or enjoyed by such Natives’ In the Proclamation of the State Governor Hindmarsh said: ‘It is also, at this time especially, my duty to apprize the Colonists of my resolution, to take every lawful means for extending the same protection to the NATIVE POPULATION as to the rest of His Majesty’s Subjects’" 1075:). If this was a gathering of a few guys making wild claims then I'd be less inclined to support its inclusion at all; if they're a legitimate tribe with what could be a legitimate claim then that elevates the question a bit. If a few buddies and I went down there saying we're a native tribe with a claim on the place, then blasted a press release about it, I wouldn't expect to be included in a Knowledge article. Remember that encyclopedia articles are a summation of the most pertinent or important information about a subject, not a dumping ground for every scrap of information under the sun. Now what we must do is judge whether or not their action deserves a spot here. That no other news organization found the action fit to publish says something to me, although I reserve judgment for the moment. — 1115:

me as odd. The whole thing is odd. Do you know, have there been other tribes who've made a similar claim on Marble Hill? I'm wondering if the way to get at this might be to include it in a list of tribes that have made similar claims. A one or two-word mention of this in a list of others wouldn't be so objectionable. But with the sourcing as iffy as it is now, I am a little leery of supporting retaining this information in the article at the moment. Additionally, even if all the other questions were satisfied, and sourcing issues set aside, people can make whatever claims they want, but I'm not really sure that's enough. Just like people can sue for pretty much anything they want in court, but we don't go listing every suit pending against GE at

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I hope that you will find secondary sources (i.e. not the primary legal sources that you mention) that describe those specific claims to this site, or another Knowledge article such as the one I suggested above which does so, and supply a referenced and/or wikilinked very short comment. To put it in perspective, I would think it reasonable to put in one line of text, two at most, under a specific heading, perhaps "Native title land claims to the site". The text might - if and only if you can find the secondary sources please - say something like "The entire area is subject to a native title land claim by the Kaurna, which presently encumbers its possible sale or long-term lease." A "See also" or other wikilink might reasonably go to

169:. "The Charter recognises the need to involve people in the decision-making process, particularly those that have strong associations with a place." Article 1.4 states "Conservation means all the processes of looking after a place so as to retain its cultural significance." Which was diminished from the South Australia Letters Patent 1836 for the Kaurna-Peramangk people as Traditional Owners with the 2004 Marble Hill Native Title Amendment and further eroded with the "sale or lease" EOI 2007 then Heads of Agreement sale 2008 and Marble Hill Protection Bill negatived in our SA Parliament last Thursday morning. 343:

regarding the bill is not a result of some vast conspiracy of censorship, it's just that nobody's interested. I will admit that that by itself doesn't mean it doesn't belong in an encyclopaedia, but I don't know where the MHP bill would fit. As far as I can see, the only reason to include it would be as an anti-sale soapbox, but Hamilton Smith claims that that is not the purpose of the bill. Your previous post demonstrates to me that you are indeed here to soapbox, that is, to use Knowledge as the medium to voice your personal view on this issue, which is a violation of 3 core wikipolicies,

2044:. Cook claimed the east coast under instruction from King George III of England on 22 August 1770 at Possession Island, naming eastern Australia 'New South Wales'. Significance The Secret Instructions, contained in the Letterbook carried on the Endeavour, include the Additional Instructions which authorised James Cook to take possession of 'a Continent or Land of great extent' thought to exist in southern latitudes. The second page instructs Cook 'with the Consent of the Natives to take possession of Convenient Situations in the Country in the Name of the King of Great Britain'. 2975:

organisation - the Kaurna Yerta Aboriginal Corporation - and was hardly the "Applicant and Registered Native Title Claimant in native title determination" you listed it as. The second reference you added was the Index Page from the Office of the Registrar of Indigenous Corporations - as far as I can tell there is no reference to Marble Hill there either. Your suggestion that I go to either the Kaurna Cultural Centre in Bedford Park is not a feasable way to resolve this dispute, nor would speaking with the "Traditional Owners" of the site: references should be

1033:). In this case, the tribe saying it believes something should be enough for us to cite it in the article saying they do indeed believe something without passing judgment on the truth of the claim; Newsmakers is just a forum through which the tribe distributed the information, like PR Newswire, and I see no reason to think their press release isn't coming from the tribe. Again, we aren't here to determine whether or not their claim is true, only that they've made one. Of course whether or not that claim really merits inclusion is a separate discussion. — 1932:

assumptive premises. These truths are self evident and really should not require further justification. I note that the Consensus decision-matrix has now been removed so that then cancels out above justification for persistent undoing or reverting if good faith is assumed? While I respect the interest and regular or consistant Marble Hill article contributions by the above wikiEditor and especially now a Native Title list has been established I and other readers and editors must be allowed to assume higher competency or expectation for the undo-reverts?

3255:, and its population etc are recorded together with Ashton in the census. However the most notable aspect of the district is undoubtedly the residence, hence the confusing nature of the article. I suspect this would be substantially addressed by adding a paragraph or two on the district. Perhaps the information about the house itself should be decreased. after all, much of it is perhaps bordering on trivia - such as what each governor did during residency. I added that originally, i'm open to suggestion as to whether it should stay.-- 1825:

Owners and dispossession; Protection of places of importance to the indigenous peoples; Develop a consultative framework for development, including guidelines under the Native Title Act and State Aboriginal Heritage Act; Promotion of Kaurna identity, culture and values; Tenure options on strategic sites and facilities; Influence into the regulatory development decision-making system; Development of the Tjilbruke Track." 2009 March 29 Government House Open Day Kaurna Custodians handed His Excellency Governor of South Australia

2905:, Marion where our Cultural Development Officers (and Traditional Owners) of our South Australian Premier Public Estate former Summer Vice Regal Residence Marble Hill in the 2000 Registered Native Title Land Claim would be in a good position to be respected and resourced to answer your questions. You will also see the Official Kaurna Native Title Map which includes the area now also known as Marble Hill. Also from above Kaurna Grannies have formally billed our SA Governor $ 47.5 million AUD for : --> 3127:

to as the "Kaurna Adelaide Plains", and leaving Peramangk in that sentence makes no sense, with regard to syntax, when describing the location of Marble Hill. As for resolving this dispute: Mifren, I would like you to describe in plain terms why you feel this information is needed in this article, which is about a historic South Australian building and property. Unless there is some documented evidence that this is a contentious issue among the public, and that it can be proven by the addition of

1697:) however I've been unable to access the issue online that he's referencing. He says p. 16 of the 30 April - 13 May issue includes an article entitled "Kaurna Declare Sovereignty and $ 47 Million Dollar Rent Bill for Marble Hill." Maybe someone else can find more success finding this online; otherwise he's offered to email a .PDF, which would be helpful in satisfying ourselves of what was written if nothing else. Sources are preferred to be available online, but not necessarily required. — 31: 3294:

EXECUTIVE act not otherwise authorised by LEGISLATION of the Parliament or the exercise of JUDICIAL power by a judge of a Court), Letters Patent were issued establishing the legal power of the Crown to hold land in South Australia, but which declared the traditional owners could legally continue to occupy and enjoy the lands they inhabited and that their descendants were equally entitled to continue to occupy and enjoy these lands their ancestors inhabited."

3045:), raised in New South Wales, recently moved from (formerly South Australia's) Northern Territory to Kangaroo Island 2004 who stood for our 2007 Australian Parliament as a Kingston Candidate and incidently drove past Warriparinga Living Kaurna Cultural Centre, Sturt Road, Bedford Park, Marion, dropped in to show some respect and others who actually live on the mainland, North Island do not, cannot be bothered to do the same ... 2054:

debunking Abel Tasman's theory that it formed part of the southern continent), then turned west, reaching the southern coast of New South Wales on 20 April 1770. He sailed north, landing at Botany Bay one week later, before continuing to chart the Australian coast all the way north to the tip of Queensland. There, on Possession Island, just before sunset on Wednesday 22 August 1770, he declared the coast a British possession:

839:

rather silly. The rest is sourced to your facebook site and to a press release - neither of which on any examination can be regarded as reliable sources. You are pushing your cause (which I am sympathetic to) and seem to have lost sight of the inappropriateness of doing that here. News, books and other reliable sources are all good....facebook, myspace, press releases and personal opinions are almost without exception not.

936:. I've looked through the talk page and some of the recent diffs (lots of edit warring going on, sorry to see), but I confess I'm still a bit confused as to what the fact is that's under dispute. Could someone run it down for me briefly? Also I ask your forbearance since I'm not Australian and so am unfamiliar with some of your nomenclature. — 1904:? Whereas it actually takes more than one to inflame and the purpose was actually to learn what the then current basis or motive logic to motivate yet another revert. One reason for the above referencing dilemma is because Coober Pedy News linked is being confused as a trans-positional error with the Coober Pedy Times ... also Marble Hill 1745:

Act; Promotion of Kaurna identity, culture and values; Sustainable economic opportunities; Provide resource and infrastructure support; Tenure options on strategic sites and facilities; Influence into the regulatory development decision-making system; Development of the Tjilbruke Track." Fits into all these Marble Hill wikidiscussions?

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Draft map only. Prepared by Land Services Group, Department of Administrative and Information Services Names as recorded by Norman B Tindale Kaura people and others with appropriate knowledge are invited to advise of any corrections or alterations to the names as shown. Please give any information to

3766:

We are trying here to write an encyclopedic article about a building. Land claims to the site may indeed be worth mentioning in this article, but only very briefly. Detailed accounts of the legal history of land claims in Australia do not belong here. To resolve the specific issue about this article,

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As for your previous comments regarding my lineage, and indeed my religion, this is not the place for such discussions. And with regard to my ability or conviction for making a visit to the Warriparinga Living Kaurna Cultural Centre - it bothers me not what a KI "politician" does with his spare time,

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as far as I can see, so how about we try and work this out in discussion first? For the sake of accuracy, I'm going to revert the addition of the links to Kaurna and Peramangk in the Lead, as the Adelaide Hills are never referred to as the "Kaurna Adelaide Hills", nor are the Adelaide Plains referred

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Bekim Baljeski Information Officer Office of the Hon Jay Weatherill MP Minister for Environment and Conservation Minister for Early Childhood Development Minister for Aboriginal Affairs and Reconciliation 2009/7/15 Emailed a pdf attached, "Ref: 09MEC1880 The Minister for Environment and Conservation,

1993:

I reject the notion that the 2000 title claim is enough to include it in this article, simply because it (and every other dwelling extant) is included by implication in this enormous swath of claimed land. There may be a better place on Knowledge for this information to be included, however, such as

1950:

policy is very clear -- you're welcome to challenge peoples' reasoning, but it must be done courteously. It only takes one person to make uncivil comments that contribute to an atmosphere that is detrimental to building an encyclopedia, and in any case, two wrongs don't make a right. If someone else

1931:

simply included an initial 130 year back-rent bill given that the SA Governor and Government had built on Kaurna land without any established evidence that Kaurna had sold as per the Letters Patent 1836 conditions. Again the above deductive reasoning internal logic conclusion/s is based on inaccurate

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I find your rapid interest intriguing YH, what motivates you and your logic now? I'm very impressed that you've started the Native Title article and hope this helps raise awareness and promote more benefits. I note no mention though in SA of either South Australia Letters Patent nor Proclamation 1836

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I've now looked at the .PDF and it appears to be a reproduction of their press release, rather than an article. Less satisfying than if a staff writer had actually written about it, but it is probably reasonable to assume that it did in fact come from the Kaurna and could probably be used as a source

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Folks, just some random thoughts. There is unlikely to be another claimant due to the distribution of Aboriginal tribes in Australia. Many are geographically based, as is the case for the Kaurna with them being widely recognised as the occupants of the Adelaide Plains and the Hills that "Marble Hill"

1023:

Okay, so basically the claim being asserted is that a native tribe has made a legal claim against the land or building in question, yes? I'll take another look at the diffs, links and etc. now that it's a bit clearer. Thank you for the explainer. Quick question: Does this tribe have a website? They

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than the Founding Documents of King William IV South Australia Letters Patent and Governor Hindmarsh Proclamation 1836. It seems again another born and bred South Australian who does not yet know their ongoing at least ethical and moral obligations and responsibilities to these conditional documents.

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MLC as a Public Parliamentarian to seek their own independent copy whether DEH-DEC Marble Hill FOI documentation or any other Public Documents. Another logic red herring to distract? Equally YH am happy to show you (and others) the FOI DEH-DEC Marble Hill documentation I've been given as I was at the

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Re: the 2009 claim however, this "news" has not been reported by any reliable secondary sources. Sam Rossi is not an independent third party, he is the author of the speech! Photos are posted on your own facebook, for heaven's sake! You can hardly claim to be an independent third party source on this

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There are other documents online by Marion and Unley Councils so I fail at this stage to easily see your point nor arguement being just that, self serving arguement. As we write Friends of Marble Hill Acting President Ruth Russell is having to get back to Claimants on Marble Hill Native Title as does

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I do not believe that I have in fact commented specifically about being down with our SA Parliamentarian Hon Michelle Lensink MLC at all. What evidence do you have to support your claim? I have written the suggestion that when you simply undo virtually everything I had contributed to the chronicle of

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Also "The Commissioners in England also knew what the instructions were, because not only did some of them draft the Letters Patent, but they also made plain their intentions in their official reports to the British Parliament, and importantly in exercising their powers under the Foundation Act they

1845:

Apologies, I've refactored some of the discussion above so it doesn't run on and on. My initial comment is that it's in no way structured in an encyclopedic manner, includes a lot of information that is irrelevant to this article, and is poorly-sourced (a Facebook photo and the Newsmakers link that

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Native Title Claim included Marble Hill. 12 AUGUST 2003 "Issues affecting Aboriginal culture, heritage and social inclusion have been tabled at the Tjilbruke Dreaming Forum for discussion, input and progression. ... identified areas included: Statement acknowledging the significance of Traditional

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I'd prefer to discuss this rather than have a revert war, but as of right now there's a clear consensus among editors not to include this information, for reasons of sourcing as well as notability. Mifren, I invite you to address my concerns outlined in the prior section. Thank you for your time. —

1366:

Okay. It seems silly to go adding this to every landmark or land mass that sits inside the borders of the claimed land, in that case (however, I can see the logic of claiming Marble Hill as a political calculation to attract attention). On the other hand, clearly they are making claims. Is there an

838:

Mifren, Yeti dropped me a note and it is clear that your edits to the article are....well....introducing unreliable information is the nicest light I can shine. The Kaurna native claim was an ambit claim that did not mention directly the area under discussion in this article and including it here is

248:

Actually soapboxing isn't in fact my interest at all. My interest is democracy, heritage, Governance, due process and best practice, the fact that a premier South Australian Public Estate property is being sold into the private market without real community consultation and that is of at least State

160:

Thank you Peripitus, I am grateful as per Knowledge:Dispute resolution "In the meantime the disputed article will evolve, other editors may become interested and they will have different perspectives if the issue comes up again." It seems clear to me that editing what has been contributed up to wiki

3803:

Much of the presented argument is either Synthesis (reliable sources do not mention Marble Hill and Kaurna in context) or original research, there is some reliable information that can be used. The Kaurna did present a claim for the area, including back rent, and the state government did reject the

3458:

If there are reliable secondary sources that establish that the site of this house specifically is seriously and notably claimed by anyone, that would be worth mentioning. Without such sources - and in my short trawl through the history of this article I haven't seen them - the matter is not really

3232:

preceeding any post King William IV South Australia Letters Patent & Proclamation 1836 is what this article is about upon which Marble Hill the former summer Vice Regal Residence 1878-1955 has been in subsequent Crown Land Public Estate thus 1992 Australian High Court Mabo Decision Native Title

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40 000 year occupation (traditional ownership) and their subsequent 8 apical ancestor descendents since. Your seeming obsession in reverting my good faith contributions without a clearer collaborative, inclusive approach has not helped. Marble Hill is the former summer Vice Regal Residence. For the

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Equally where is the documented proof of our South Australia Attorney-General' Department saying, "native title over the site was extinguished in the 1800s." Especially when we read the King William IV South Australia Letters Patent and Governor Hindmarsh's Proclamation 1836 terms and conditions is

1559:

The report recommended compensation be paid individually and collectively to direct victims of the removal policies, their immediate families and dependants and any other people or groups connected to a direct victim. Some estimates put the total number of potential claimants under these provisions

1114:

Went to the Encompass Technology page; before I went there I thought maybe it was just a a PR firm that wrote their press release for them, which wouldn't seem so strange to me (and that may in fact be the case still), but it looks to be the only thing available on their website, which just strikes

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and worse still inaccurate! 1/I have not claimed to be co-author and there is no real evidence provided nor proved 2/2009 is not a claim it is a bill 3/shows yes I am listed as an Encompass Technology Director but it does not note I am a co-author 4/ persistantly using erroneous premises to justify

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The Burra Charter Article 6.1 explicitly states, "The cultural significance of a place and other issues affecting its future are best understood by a sequence of collecting and analysing information before making decisions. Understanding cultural significance comes first, then development of policy

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Mifren, if the references you added don't pertain to the Marble Hill site, but instead reference the Adelaide Hills in general, then those references are inappropriate for the article. As far as I could tell, the first reference was nothing more than the standing orders or terms of reference of an

2474:

Lawyer Shaun Berg said in his Presentation at ‘Wodlianni – 173rd Anniversary of the Letters Patent’ at Government House on 19 February 2009, "To use the words of Tom Trevorrow, Ngarrindjeri Elder: ‘We need to come to terms with this, so that we can come to terms with each other.” Regardless of how

2306:

OK, I was unaware of that perspective and note: "The term meatpuppet is derogatory and should be used only with care." As the Speech Author, in all honesty I thought that a right of reply was worthy of consideration hence my referral. For posterity and the sake of Kaurna Sovereignty, Native Title,

2126:

By His Excellency John Hindmarsh, Knight of the Royal Hanoverian Guelphie Order, Governor and Commander in Chief of His Majesty’s Province of South Australia In announcing to the colonists of His Majesty’s Province of South Australia, the establishment of the Government, I hereby call upon them to

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identified areas included: Statement acknowledging the significance of Traditional Owners and dispossession; Protection of places of importance to the indigenous peoples; Develop a consultative framework for development, including guidelines under the Native Title Act and State Aboriginal Heritage

1740:

The Kaurna Native Title Claimant Group ... developed an alliance, through a proposed Memorandum of Understanding, with the Kaurna Aboriginal Cultural Heritage Association (KACHA), Kaurna Meyunna and the Kaurna Elders. These groups represent 27 Kaurna families and have ... become incorporated under

1736:

Given all the above, I'm wondering now where: "Issues affecting Aboriginal culture, heritage and social inclusion have been tabled at the Tjilbruke Dreaming Forum for discussion, input and progression. Refer Attachment 1 Councils within the southern region recognise the significance of Traditional

1487:

Please CIRCULATE and THEN attend the 105th Justice & Peace Candle Light Walk around Government House - Friday 5th June from 6.30pm for 6.45pm walk, or begin your own walk to show your lights for Murrundi (the river), lakes and Kurangk (Coorong) by a Treaty and a Bill of Rights to establish the

1427:

Right. I think in the case of the older source, as I hinted at above, using it to support adding information to this particular article really make little sense (we can't go adding this to every landmark or land mass this claim might include by implication). But I'm trying to find a way for him to

1301:

Interesting, okay. So here is an old claim, but it's not clear to me on what, geographically-speaking. Is there some other piece of the claim you could link to that shows what exactly is being claimed? It seems to me that the claim references land that was described in an attachment, but what that

1254:

I dislike typos as much as anybody, but naturally I'm only human. I have no greater authority than any other editor. I also have made no claims that need backing up; rather, you have, and so far your sourcing and information is rather lacking. You are seeking to add information, and therefore the

1209:

I'd actually say also leaning to the negative on sourcing grounds as well, given the totality of the information at hand and absent any other supporting publications. I don't really see the need for an RFC frankly, although it wouldn't hurt, but really this seems to be a fairly decent consensus of

1087:

The Kaurna are certainly a legitimate tribe and well known around Adelaide. But although this news release is a purported Kaurna speech, the release was issued by a group called Encompass Technologies, which seems to be based in Kangaroo Island and run by two non-Kaurna. It seems unlikely that the

1043:

Mifren would be able to answer this one better than I can, but I'm not sure weather they have a central leadership such as, say, Native American tribes do. I don't know of any "official" website. The claim is at present only available on Newsmaker, and a couple of blogs which have picked it up and

172:

Articles 2.3 state "Conservation is an integral part of good management of places of cultural significance." and 2.4 "Places of cultural significance should be safeguarded and not put at risk or left in a vulnerable state." state where can we demonstrate that DEH has met those criteria? Again Item

2992:

there is any usable information that can be verified by an outside observer, that it may be suitable to add the information here; but may I suggest that you discuss it on the Talk page prior to adding it, as this article is already dangerously close to breaking out in a full-scale editwar - which

2514:

It is now commonplace for events to begin with a welcome to Kaurna land speech by a Kaurna Elder, often Kauwanu (Uncle) Lewis O’Brien or Ngarpadla (Auntie) Josie Agius, or sometimes by a younger person such as a student at Kaurna Plains School where Kaurna is taught. Whilst these speeches take a

2438:

What I find equally fascinating is the on-going self-styled approach "the answer was unequivocal" as though somehow as a wikiEditor YetiHunter seems so egocentric that being a judge in your own court applies "to this specific case". Especially when nothing "specific" from "this case" was actually

1058:

Again, it seems that the Newsmakers source would be adequate to point to as a source for their own opinion. The blogs you mention seem to just be reposting the release, so they can be discarded as sources. A press release service, which is what Newsmakers seems to be, would be fine to cite as a

1028:

or falsity of that claim, only that they've made it. I am not yet convinced that this Newsmakers service (which appears to just be a press release distribution service) should in this case considered unreliable, since the burden for sourcing is lower when it comes to a group making a claim about

1008:

Some other terms that may have been used... FOI = Freedom of Information request (govt must tell you what they're doing), FOMH = Friends of Marble Hill, a volunteer group who formerly ran open days at the site, DEH = Department of Environment and Heritage, the govt. department responsible for the

728:

Re: the 2000 claim, according to the source you posted, the claim included not only Marble Hill, but the whole of Fleurieu Peninsula from Cape Jervis to Port Broughton! So while such a statement may be factually correct, I think it's a bit of a stretch to say it is specifically relevant to Marble

380:

Similarly, limit your use of absolute terms, such as "everybody," "always," "never." Unless you relay an indisputable fact ("Everybody needs water"), these words can make your writing imprecise or overly subjective. One may write, idiomatically, "I'll do anything for you," but one probably should

320:

the existing heritage measures do not adequately reflect community interest in conserving local heritage ... the processes of heritage administration are too centralised and closed … In response to these criticisms, the resulting legislative package offers something for everyone. The community at

272:

If my POV is not neutral then I thought that it would be easy for Yeti Hunter or any other wikiEditor to edit accordingly, not simply delete as I have simply implied in my notes todate. Again I have yet to find previous cryptic one word or phrase edit lines after deleting by undoing as helpful. I

83:

mentions that the Premier arrived and warned the governor to phone the police, but it is ambiguous as to whether he actually sheltered with the governor while the bushfire destroyed the house. One would think this would be quite a well-covered event, if true, but I can't find any better cite than

3293:

in an attempt to "• Build consensus • Resolving disputes • Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette", respect, recognition and resourcing Kaurna; " have NEVER surrendered this DOMINIUM because, on 19 February 1836, in an EXERCISE of the PREROGATIVE (a form of LEGAL power the CROWN exercises by

2685:

Named Native Title Claimants and families of at least two apical ancestors rallied at South Australia Parliament House Steps over the 90 days Marble Hill 130 year back rent bill due then proceeded to Government House handing the speech reminding the Governor that he'd sought the Premier's advice

2203:

or not is still unresolved. Knowledge takes very little to be self-evident, except the truly self-evident, such as "the sky is blue." Other claims must be backed up with proper sourcing, including this. Consensus against what you are seeking to include has not "been removed." I have not seen

2059:

Notwithstand I had in the Name of His Majesty taken possession of several places upon this coast, I now once more hoisted English Coulers and in the Name of His Majesty King George the Third took possession of the whole Eastern Coast . . . by the name New South Wales, together with all the Bays,

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Culture Centre Meeting recently. The more awareness raised and associated benefits promoted for more informed over ill-informed or poor decision making the better. Again I refer you and others to the King William IV South Australia Letters Patent and Governor Hindmarsh Proclamation 1836 Founding

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Your second point lacks validity on the basis that the author is Sam Rossi and Publisher Newsmaker edited by Leila Henderson which I am aware has now not only been tabled at the April Kaurna Native Title Management Committee but also been picked up by a Coober Pedy Times Reporter and a Byron Bay

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Thanks for these notes YH, I've only just sighted them. I'm somewhat bemused by your self justifying lack of Kaurna Native Title Claim awareness as an Adelaide based South Australian. I equally imagine you have yet to read, learn and know the Founding Documents of King William IV South Australia

180:

Article 6.1 states that "The policy for managing a place must be based on an understanding of its cultural significance." Where then is that Marble Hill Policy? Has Ernie as FOMH IPP or you as Pres and IPVP seen such a DEH document apart from the Danvers Report? Does the Danvers Report recommend

1829:

their Declaration of Sovereignty and a three page speech "I Have Come" which included a $ 47.5M bill for 130 years back rent on Marble Hill as the former Summer Vice Regal Residence under a Heads of Agreement for sale out of the South Australian Public Estate into the private real estate market

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I imagine at this time YH that you too probably have not yet seen the almost 2" thick FOI DEH-DEC Marble Hill Documentation SA Liberal Opposition Leader in the Upper House Hon Michelle Lensink MLC gained which includes significant statements from the former DEH-DEC Minister Hon Gail Gago MLC on

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Provided Always that nothing in those our Letters Patent contained shall affect or be construed to affect the rights of any Aboriginal Natives of the said Province to the actual occupation or enjoyment in their own Persons or in the Persons of their Descendants of any Lands therein now actually

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He said reconciliation's other "unfinished business" included the social justice package promised to Aborigines in mid-1990s native title negotiations but never delivered; the outstanding recommendations of the Royal Commission into Aboriginal Deaths in Custody; and bridging the 11.8-year life

1233:

Just responding on the fly at while away from base: Essentially I'm appalled by the extraordinary poor use and abuse of logic, premis, superlative reasoning and research employed by two of three wikieditors in particular YH who seems to have developed a particular precious possessiveness. I've

3161:

Obviously your perogative is just that however our South Australian resident and Australian Citizen responsibilities are at least morally and ethically subject to The Bible, King John Sealed Magna Carta, King George III Sealed Royal Proclamation 1763, British Admiralty Secret Sealed Orders to

2661:. But the statement as it stands is inappropriately written anyway - the Adelaide Hills Council is not a Kaurna organisation. And I am not aware of any source which places Marble Hill "near Peramangk country". I thought that was well to the east, but maps are difficult to come by, it seems. -- 2307:

self determination & empowerment I'll leave this revisionist history and wikiwar for others to decide as I've squandered far too much time, consideration, efforts, money and lost earnings to really be worth worrying anymore about this bureacratic attitude, behaviour and approach. YOU WIN.

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The Secret Instructions provided that, in the event that he found the Continent, he should chart its coasts, obtain information about its people, cultivate their friendship and alliance, and annex any convenient trading posts in the King's name. Cook followed the coast of New Zealand (thereby

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1 - No, I haven't seen a 2" thick FOI. Neither can anyone on Knowledge. Perhaps you'd like to show me, but even then that would be original research. 2 - A chat with the FOMH president is also original research. 3 - The fact that you are not aboriginal does not make you a reliable source. 4 -

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Wow. That was a pretty spectacular soapboxing, Matt. I have a hard time following your argument, if there is one, but the sources you've posted don't demonstrate a thing. They are just parliamentary transcripts, or documents which only mention Marble Hill in passing. The complete lack of news

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I note how like our Australian Prime Ministers frame Referenda Questions, the fact that this DEC Ministerial correspondence is outgoing and thus to the Friends of Marble Hill President Incorporated under the Friends of Parks Inc thus answerable to we the people via OCBA, not an "Email", not

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Cook's Secret Instructions represent Britain’s first official expressions of interest in Australia. They record the quest for scientific discovery, combined with the desire to find exploitable natural resources and to expand Britain's control of strategic trading posts around the globe. The

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Marble Hill with cryptic words or phrases instead of editing as I and others have suggested. I more recently have learned that it seems in fact that SA DEH have a commitment to the Australian National Heritage Standards Burra Charter from the International Heritage Standards Venice Charter

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standards and dialogue rather than reducing down to consistent cryptic if not punitive undos makes it easier for we in wiki community and community at large to actually better comprehend in real time exactly what has, is and is likely to be under a Marble Hill Heads of Agreement sale as per

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I've received an email from Mifren with some information suggesting that a publication called the Coober Pedy Regional Times, which appears to be a small community weekly newspaper, published an article about the Kaurna claim on Marble Hill. It looks like the newspaper does have a website

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say that there is some land to the north that may be subject to Native Title, but it appears to refer to the 2000 claim which does not specifically relate to Marble Hill, as discussed at length above. May I suggest that both Mifren and I deal ourselves out of this debate and get another

2350:

and 1836 King William IV South Australia Letters Patent and Governor Hindmarsh Proclamation legal fictions, I've been able to not only rediscover but also now as a jpg file be able to remove the essential identifying information to produce (Edited for readability - see image at right

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reference to: "• Build consensus • Resolving disputes • Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette" that you choose to use the words and phrase, "reverting nonsense again - this is beginning to get ridiculous". What specifically “lacks any coherent meaning”? Further I refer you to

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The term British Subject only actually applied to the colonists "It is also, at this time especially, my duty to apprize the Colonists of my resolution, to take every lawful means for extending the same protection to the Native Population as to the rest of His Majesty’s subjects"

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Given the curious nature of YH's premis, logic arguments and revert position, I'm submitting the following for wikieditors involved todate to actually help re-editing the following so that dispossession and current Native Title Claim since 2000 is more satisfactory for YH decision

967:, which appears to be a site which issues press releases for a fee. I removed it as self-published, and it reappeared a few days later. Over a couple of days the material was reverted and restored twice more. At this point I decided to break the edit war and asked another editor ( 1067:

I don't see any reason why we should doubt that they really demonstrated at this place and made a claim, since they're the ones who put out the release. That doesn't touch on the truth or validity of the claim, a question whose answer is beyond our mission as humble Knowledge

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This is not as bad as some of the things you've said in the past, but regardless it is a sarcastic statement meant to indicate that you question Yeti's motives. It has no useful purpose except to inflame the discussion. Focus on the content in question, not on motivations. —

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MICK Dodson has accused Australia's native title system of bias against Aboriginal claimants and warned that reconciliation will not be achieved until the Stolen Generations are paid compensation along the radical lines recommended in the 1997 Bringing Them Home report.

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Several non-Indigenous organisations are now wanting to respond with some words of recognition of Kaurna country and Kaurna people in the language of the land. Accordingly statements of acknowledgement have now been developed in Kaurna. ACC Statement of Acknowledgement

225:. Any editor needs to think carefully when editing about a subject they have strong feelings on. I do note that the bill attracted no news interest at all but died stillborn in the house of reps. Why is it significant enough to report on a failed private members bill ? 2739:

It doesn't have any quotes from any actual Kaurna at all. The only quote attributed to the Kaurna elder was in fact an excerpt from a speech written by your friend Sam Rossi, a speech which was "handed" to the governor rather than spoken, or so your unreliable source

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the evidence for negotiating sovereign Kaurna lands? As we know Native Title is a weak law since our Australian High Court's Mabo Case 1992 determination. Living Kaurna Sovereignty is above and outside any of our whitefellas legal fictions or laws beneath the Crown.

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for their own claims, if we chose to include it. It's curious for a newspaper to just directly reproduce a press release, although I some really small concerns do (Mifren says it wasn't a paid placement). Regardless, we can probably assume it did come from them. —

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How about this for a compromise solution: Since "reconstruction" has not actually taken place yet, nor even has the actual sale, we nix the "reconstruction" section entirely, replacing it with another two dot-points in the "After the fire" section, perhaps thus:

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so I'll reiterate what I've stated previously and what I expect from the two wikiEditors involved in the consensus as they both appear to be born and bred South Australians presenting almost expert Marble Hill Native Title opinions. 1stly The illegal

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Ironically if either of you as serious wiki Editors looked at the Bill and informed yourselves on our SA Parliamentary due process you will clearly see that the Liberal Party never sought to block the sale so again I fail to see how that is "fair" or

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Notwithstanding the existence of such a protocol, which I'm not here to debate, Knowledge is not obliged to follow it for every geographic-place article in the encyclopaedia. If you'd like to campaign for it to become policy, as you seem to suggest,

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viewpoint, and you are clearly not editing with a neutral point of view in mind on this subject. On the other hand it is appropriate for there to be a brief mention of the existence, and defeat, of the private members bill simply for completeness.

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It was acknowledged that there is some redundancy in this text. It was felt that the first line or the last line could be used independently as a short version, or the entire text could be used. Catholic Education – Acknowledgement of Kaurna Land

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He said fixing native title was fundamental to achieving reconciliation but the system was failing: "The states and territories have all the information, so why shouldn't they disprove our native title claims instead of us having to prove them?"

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claim from 2000 on the area in question. It was unsourced, so I asked if Mifren had a source on the talk page. A few days later a 2009 claim was added, sourced to Mifren's facebook page. I removed both claims as unsourced and in accordance with

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logic like, "Neither can anyone on Knowledge." How can anyone possibly absolutely represent everyone on Knowledge by pretentiously speaking for, about and without them? In actual fact anyone on Knowledge can actually independently simply go to

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4.3 states, "Conservation should make use of all the knowledge, skills and disciplines which can contribute to the study and care of the place." In what way ignoring the above stakeholders has DEH demonstrated best practice in this regard?

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For starters, what you've written isn't supported by the source you've given (I'll get to its reliability in a moment). The source speaks of the protest in the future tense, and says nothing of going to Government House or the Kaurna's

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already answered these questions and statistically a consensus of 3/4 where n=4 is insignificant thus invalid - as Sir Humphrey Appleby said in "Yes Minister", "you can prove anything with statistics, even the truth". I'm surprised too

4424:*A: I did not. Thus YH use real logic over your own assumptive, presumptive biased, prejudical speculation and ask mainstream Murdoch Media, University Departments, other mainstream Media like the Independent Weekly and dare I mention 729:

Hill. You might as well add such a statement to Norton Summit, Adelaide Hills, and every other place on the peninsula. But hey, someone else may have a different opinion (Peripitus, how do you see this one?), so I'm open to discussion.

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Again I note the erroneous use of the "2009 claim" which is not a "claim" as that has already been Registered 9 years earlier. Again the lack of logic blocks or frustrates effective or real communication. It is a ~130 year back-rent

3463:, which mentions the Kaurna. But this is an article about a mildly-notable building, and I would not suggest including any long discourse from primary sources or on the general subject of land claims in the area. I hope this helps. 814:

is concerned I personally perceive that perhaps DEH-DEC Senior Planning Officer Richard Fox's FOI Documentation may potentially be argued as such but when I'm seeing it ~5th hand, I'm not really convinced by your argument/s yet to

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Richard, your comment has hit the nail on the head. If a source (book, newspaper etc.) is talking about Marble hill and discusses the original inhabitants in this context then there is a reliable source to back up a mention. -

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I'm sorry, Matt, you're right - you have not specifically used the exact quote that you are "down with" all of that, but you certainly do seem to have pretty decent inside information. Well, if and when that gets reported in a

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Cook had recorded signs that the coast was inhabited during the voyage north, and here he noted as he returned to the ship the great number of fires on all the land and islands about them, 'a certain sign they are Inhabited'.

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On his first voyage, Cook sailed in the Endeavour to Tahiti (to assist in the scientific observation of the transit of the planet Venus) and then as instructed, sailed south in search of the fabled 'Great Southern Continent'.

4194: 2783:. Whether this merits inclusion or not is up for debate ("a claim of sovereignty and a bill for $ 50 million in back-rent was rejected in 2009 on the basis that Native Title had been extinguished in the 1800s," perhaps?). It 355:. I'll have a crack at rewriting the entire reconstruction section and see if I can mention the bill somewhere, because I actually find it quite interesting, but the form that Mifren is proposing is entirely inappropriate.-- 2226:

based on the Kaurna Declaration of Sovereignty handed to the Crown Vice-Regal Representative SA Governor. Thus your consensus claim is not logical based on erroneous premises and yet it is my reverts in good faith that are

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Land Owners in the region and are assisting Aboriginal people in the protection and development of culture and identity. ... a southern region Council Working Group has pursued these broad cultural and reconciliation aims.

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http://209.85.173.132/search?q=cache:182w1wr2PMUJ:www.holdfast.sa.gov.au/webdata/resources/minutesAgendas/1361_400_-_Native_Title_Update.pdf+kaurna+native+title&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=au&client=firefox-a

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When poor reasoning or logic is being challenged or even motive questioned, which part of wikiPolicy is actually being abused (because it is personal when the 2nd person "you" is used &/or User named)? Again I see the

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In answer to your concern the last edit was actually in reference context to the Adelaide Plains, not Marble Hill. I ask politely therefore for you to undo your revert please. It is my hope then that too is unequivocably

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He said Kevin Rudd's apology to the Stolen Generations last year had been a "transformative experience" for Australia because it had produced a new "respectful relationship" between indigenous and non-indigenous people.

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said, "and you wonder why we do not like you." In this Case SAPOL has a sad history ... what then can, will you do in some small way/s to atone for the SAPOL, State & Federal fathers? Remember in our whitefella

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Law need to be better comprehended before making such broad sweeping stereotypical arguments to justify conclusions. This again for me demonstrates the on-going lack of respect and resourcing thus dispossession of

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Speaking in New York, the veteran Aboriginal activist and Australian of the Year said native title law should be changed so the onus of proof rested with state and territory governments, not Aboriginal claimants.

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In 2002, Catholic Education requested a Kaurna statement of acknowledgement of Kaurna land that could be used at assemblies in Catholic schools located in Kaurna country. The following statement was formulated:

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Yeti Hunter - The current text is apparently factual and at least referenced with external links - doesn't leaving it in place add to reader's understanding of Marble Hill's place in South Australian politics ?

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As Yeti Hunter put it, Facebook (indeed, social networking sites in general) is not a reliable source for adding information to wikipedia. I will again state that we are coming dangerously close to an all-out

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Also For Your Information further to the then DEH Minister Hon Gail Gago MLC's 2006 Official Response originally for former DEH Minister John Hill Marble Hill Native Title was in question and so the latest is

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I'm not familiar with what an "ambit claim" means. I take it from some of the past discussion here that it was a claim against a large swath of land, upon which Marble Hill happens to sit? Is that correct? —

2979:. That is, if I did speak with them, or went to the Cultural Centre, how would that pertain to the question at hand - that is, the lack of verifiable references that specifically mention the Marble Hill site? 1377:

But we come back to the fact that the claim is unverifiable - the ref is self-published by a third party with a COI! It doesn't belong here or anywhere else on Knowledge. The fact that one editor is being

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Five days later, no sources have been provided for the 2000 claim (I have searched news and Hansard and come up empty), and a supposed 2009 claim is referenced to a user-generated content news site called

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contribute fruitfully to the encyclopedia with this information, and that's why I was wondering if there is an article on native Australian claims generally that this information might fit with better. —

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to quietly accept the sale. Some Opposition members believed this is because of a personal relationship between Mr Downer and the purchasers." Remember too that it was Alexander Downer's grandfather Sir

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for such a higher wikiediting authority you would allow spelling typos. When back to base, I'll give a more considered response but cannot even conditionally accept as you have not actually proved your

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dispute since ... Kaurna have never ceded Sovereignty over these lands and we whitefellas have and cannot prove our claim with any evidence to the effect of the Letters Patent & Proclamation 1836.

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Further to the allegation that acknowledging Kaurna or Peramangk is not wiki Policy (perhaps this is an opportunity to address that perceived weakness since King George III Royal Proclamation 1763?):

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when there are several good living people who are material 1st witnesses above and beyond your claim and I fail as specifically stated to see how Kaurna Sovereignty and Native Title Claim is any more

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suitable for an encyclopedia. If the site is included within an area that has suitable documentation as being claimed, again a very brief mention might be appropriate, or a See also to, for example,

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to be successful) and yet there is no mainstream or even fringe media coverage. And even then, you need to do a bit more than just hand the governor a speech to start a native title action. It's got

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Parnako yailtya, parnuko tappa purruna, parnuko yerta ngadlu tampendi. Yellaka Kaurna meyunna itto yailtya, tappa purruna, yerta kuma burro martendi, burro warriappendi, burro tangka martulyaiendi.

1613:"Such a presumption would enable the parties, if it were not to be challenged, to disregard a substantial interruption in continuity of acknowledgment and observance of traditional laws and customs, 1590:

The Rudd Government says it's open to the idea of reversing the burden of proof for some aspects of native title claims, making it easier for Aboriginal groups to prove their connection to land.

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http://www.google.com.au/search?q=the+sins+of+the+fathers+are+visited+upon+the+3rd+%26+4th+generations+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

4310: 4285: 4529:' in the Gulf country for the deaths of at least 600 people. He revealed key details in a recent speech, saying he's been surprised by what he discovered about this period of Australia history. 733:

one I'm afraid. So far as I know, no reliable sources have printed this story and you have not provided any evidence other than uncited claims that they have. That's why this stays out for now.

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and now that kadbury0 has refuted some earlier comment, what is the current Consensus? In other words there appears to be a stalemate of 2.5 v 2.5 which on balance suggests to me inclusion.

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anyone here change their opinions. However, since I have referenced the Coober Pedy article you brought forward, the other editors do need to weigh in on whether or not they find this a

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Endeavour Master James Cook 1768, King William IV South Australia Letters Patent and Vice Regal Representative Governor Hindmarsh Commander in Chief Proclamation 1836 which has affected

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is part of. Their claim to be the sole occupants of the area, prior to 1836, is largely correct and accepted in the literature. Note though that this occupation area is very large (: -->

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The South Australian Heritage Act 1978 (SA) was criticised by the Hon M K Mayes in the Parliamentary debates concerning South Australia’s current heritage legislation. Mayes stated that

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encompasses isn't obvious to me. Also, I understand that this is probably a topic of some personal interest to you, and these situations can often inspire passions, but please remember

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Documents details specific ethical, moral and potentially legal responsibilities and vicarious or proportional duty of care in these first principle social justice matters. As far as

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We recognise and respect their cultural heritage, beliefs and relationship with the land. We acknowledge that they are of continuing importance to the Kaurna people living today.”

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1 - I find it interesting whenever debating that a person who really is unsure of themselves or seeks justify their fixed position resorts to negative absolute conclusive terms or

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Map of Adelaide region on cadastral base showing native title claim boundary and existing land tenure types. Also shows hundred, local government and conservation park boundaries.

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Is this article about Marble Hill district of the Adelaide Hills Council or Marble Hill former Vice-Regal summer residence for the Governor of South Australia from 1880 to 1955.

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Professor Dodson's remarks, his most forthright since being named Australian of the Year in January, came after he addressed a function at the Australian consulate in New York.

1538:"The big problem we have at the moment is we have a native title system that is very unfair, that makes it almost practically impossible for indigenous people to get land back. 1270:

No need to thank me, I already have if you or any other wikieditor actually read and comprehended what has been established above eg Kaurna Native Title Claim which resulted in

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that nothing in those our Letters Patent contained shall affect or be construed to affect the rights of any Aboriginal Natives of the said Province to the actual occupation or

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If this particular claim is so notable, then why did Mifren have to go as far afield as Coober Pedy to find someone who would run the story? This whole thing is a great big

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At its meeting of 27 May 2002, the Adelaide City Council accepted the need to acknowledge the traditional lands of the Kaurna people at the opening of every Council meeting.

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source for a group's opinions about something, since presumably that same group is the one that's issued the press release. Newsmakers is just a distribution service. From

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Attorney-General Robert McClelland says the Government's mind is open to shifting the burden of proof from Aboriginal claimants on to states, territories and other parties.

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Yeti Hunter - Opposes inclusion on the grounds that the sources are unreliable, and the claim cannot be verified to have been made either officially or by the actual Kaurna

4468:" continues to have a "black history" no matter how much we whitefellas may want to whitewash ... with our revisionist "history written by the victors", wiki-war writings. 2394:. If you wish, you can send me the other documentation you have by using wikipedia email (go to my userpage, click on "email this user" on the left). That won't mean that 1462:

logic premis has been addressed, hopefully YH will not revert again until this discussion has reached a more logical conclusion that too is respectful of wikipolicies etc.

4584:"Frontier violence during the settlement of Australia has been well documented, although the extent of it has been disputed in recent years. In this discussion historian 3131:, that it doesn't unbalance the information in the article, and that it is added in such a way that does not "break" the article and make it into an unreadable jumble of 4841: 4133: 3347: 2853:

Applicant and Registered Native Title Claimant in native title determination application Garth Agius and Other v The State of South Australia and Others (S 6001 OF 2000)

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Many claims fail because indigenous groups can't prove an on-going connection with their lands, often because they were dispossessed through the forces of colonisation.

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How may you resolve these land claim issues? With difficulty, I imagine. I'm not offering to help you or the Kaurna doing so, nor is such an aim any part of Knowledge.

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Kadbury, a new editor with all of two edits, who seems to have found his way directly to Yeti's talk page to post entirely in regards to this article, appears to be a

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Finally, the High Court chief justice says the Federal Court should be allowed to use an agreed statement of facts when making native title determinations by consent.

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The SECOND CENTURY of WALKS SUCCESSFULLY commenced on Sunday 26 January 2009 Join now to be a foundation part of our 2nd 100 walks (2009 SCHEDULE ON-LINE NOW ! ) SEE:

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The suggestion here is that the new Act was to open up the regime of heritage protection to the masses; to increase public participation and hence factual inclusion."

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Mifren, I think I see the problem. You clearly feel strongly about both the place, and some issues surrounding it. What you've constructed above is tending towards a

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difficult this may be, I think that we have the capacity to work through these issues but what we must not do is to say ‘we didn’t know’ because ‘Everybody knew’. "

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Finally after all the self-opinionated & appointed wikigate keepers have continuously sought to self-justifiably undo or otherwise revert and continue the 1770

1352:= ambitious initial claim, which will be much reduced upon actual negotiation. The additional 2009 claim has nothing to do with the 2000 claim referenced above.-- 618:

Letters Patent and Governor Hindmarsh as Commander-in-Chief's Proclamation 1836. I just did a quick google search for Kaurna Native Title Claim which resulted in

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Instructions confidently assume that these varied interests could be made compatible with a respect for the native populations in those countries so identified.

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http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1841505&id=618637254&l=0533575eab#/photo.php?pid=1841521&id=618637254&l=0533575eab&fbid=100619982254

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http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1841505&id=618637254&l=0533575eab#/photo.php?pid=1841522&id=618637254&l=0533575eab&fbid=100619987254

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Harbours Rivers and Islands situate upon the said coast, after which we fired three Volleys of small Arms which were Answerd by the like number from the Ship.

4946: 4190: 1878: 1726: 1715: 1259:, fall to you. So far I am unconvinced, although I am willing to be convinced if you can address my specific concerns that are outlined above. Thank you. — 1225: 1166: 394: 336: 190: 4957: 3264: 3112: 2833: 2773: 2670: 2430: 2213: 1797: 1782: 1459: 1018: 919: 901: 824: 786: 768: 745: 714: 552: 533: 510: 492: 364: 209: 3002: 2706: 214:

Both editors have questions to answer and both need to recognise they may be wrong - these are points to think on perhaps rather than respond to at length.

3877: 2603:“We acknowledge the Kaurna people as the traditional owners of this land. We acknowledge their living culture and unique role in the life of this region” 2412:

What I find fascinating is the extra-ordinary lengths to which Marble Hill Native Title has been constantly undone or reverted. In response to the latest

2371:?" In fact there remains other Marble Hill South Australia Government FOI Documentation YH & any other wikiEditor really seeking awareness can access. 2300: 1999: 1956: 1702: 1311: 1264: 881: 242: 3952: 3181: 3098: 2965: 2084: 2515:

variety of forms, a minimalist Kaurna speech is reproduced here in order to familiarise people with a few of the common elements within these speeches.

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Most controversially, Justice French says it should be presumed that indigenous applicants have the "continous existence and vitality since sovereignty

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http://cooberpedyregionaltimes.wordpress.com/2009/06/29/the-time-has-come-adelaides-first-people-the-kaurna-come-to-collect-their-rent-on-marble-hill/

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and Kaurna Great Grandmother Ngangkiburka Georgina Yambo Williams also 2000 Registered Named Native Title Claimant Management Committee Vice Chair is

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we have already dismissed as not reliable). Yeti, what is your take on the Coober Pedy article I referenced above? Let's focus on whether this is a

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He stands firm on the compensation provisions of the Bringing Them Home report, which he co-wrote, saying they were "fundamental" to reconciliation.

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8000sqkm) and to put it into context the est native population in this area in 1836 was < 1000 (was more prior to this but such are the terrors of

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Decision 1992, Royal Proclamation 1763, South Australia Letters Patent & Proclamation 1836 see also Discussion Page, I've updated accordingly ...

2455:" an appalling abuse of logic. It's almost no longer worth any more time, effort, consideration, lost earnings and wasted money on on-going reverts. 2386:

While I appreciate that it seems you've gone to significant effort to research and present this information, it doesn't change the fact that it is a

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Justice French also wants the Native Title Act amended so extinguishment can be disregarded if the claimant and the relevant state government agree.

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Date: 2009/6/4 Subject: 105th Justice & Peace Candle Light Walk around Government House, ADELAIDE - Friday 5th June from 6.30pm for 6.45pm walk

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I'd never suggest we ignore Knowledge's policies. I was really referring to the older claim, which has a much better and more appropriate source. —

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It is unsurprising that some nearby land is subject to the completely unrelated 2000 claim, as all Crown land is subject to that ongoing claim.

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to express your disapproval of the the way the Government has gone about the sale process? Sorry but that's not what Knowledge is all about. --

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The Coober Pedy Times, whose editorial rigour is doubtful and who we know has printed a press release at your request once before, now prints

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not buildings and certainly not "dwellings". Thus as again resorting to yet another absolute term like "every" other dwelling continues to be

1071:

Now, whether or not they're the sort of outfit whose opinion is weighty enough to be included in this article at all is a separate issue (see

416: 292: 4420::If this particular claim is so notable, then why did Mifren have to go as far afield as Coober Pedy to find someone who would run the story? 4187: 3884:

I have been loathe to enter this discussion since RFCs are meant to bring in outside opinions, but I think I should point out the following:

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I have removed the following references as, though I have taken the time to actually read them, there is no reference to Marble Hill at all:

143: 4081: 3902: 2452: 2380: 2323: 2285: 1985: 1765: 1687: 1119:. That standard might perhaps be useful in considering this, particularly since it wasn't covered anywhere else in the media, it seems. — 3825:

but this claim was rejected by the Attorney-General's Department who noted that "native title over the site was extinguished in the 1800s".

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without responding to Ngangki burka MEKAUWE Georgina Yambo Williams." Thus I invite all wikieditors to 1st discuss their reasoning here.

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The 2009 claim directly against Marble Hill is a different matter, however whether or not your sourcing for this claim can be considered

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yet have not it seems actually implemented them which is now before the SA Auditor General even though that itself may not yet be in the

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didn't even include it, and the front page story was about a local girl's 21st birthday. It's a community newsletter, not a "newspaper".

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Also the next most appropriate, assertive, curteous thing for you to do would be to make and take the time to visit Warriparinga Living

1951:

is uncivil to you, that doesn't give you the right to break the civility policy yourself. I am not here to debate the policy with you.—

1306:. Comments suggesting that I or other editors don't read or comprehend what you say aren't helpful to finding an amicable resolution. — 4758: 4518: 3971: 3892: 3354: 2920:

the Hon Jay Weatherill MP, has asked me to acknowledge your email received 3 July 2009, regarding Marble Hill and Native Title matters.

846: 2007:

Here again I note the poor logic with "(and every other dwelling extant)" because it assumes several premises that are inaccurate. In

4464:

or massacreing ~600 Top End Sovereign Original People - the sins of the father visited upon the 3rd & 4th generations? Yes, YH, "

3440:

Requesting independent qualified historians and geographers thus neutral wikiEditors to review and help facilitate due process &

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Kaurna meyunnarlo parnako yerta, yailtyanna, tappa purruna kuma burro martendi, burro tangka martulyaiendi. Yaintya ngadlu tampendi.

2016: 4440: 1155: 941: 314:

The fact that there was no "news" only demonstrates the way in which media control what is going on as per: "1 Community Interests

3837:

If there is a reliable source apart from these (and the first is simply a press release) that talks about the Kaurna or Peramangk

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True. The 2000 claim did not specifically mention Marble Hill at all, though. The best information I can find is this from Mifren

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in their own Persons or in the Persons of their Descendants of any Lands therein now actually occupied or enjoyed by such Natives

1002: 2564:“Adelaide City Council acknowledges that we are meeting on the traditional country of the Kaurna people of the Adelaide Plains. 3251:

Good point Muzi. Not actually sure on this one. "Marble Hill" is actually a recognised suburb, but it has the same postcode as

3242: 892:, ie not admissable. I'm sure you are editing in good faith, but your continued assumption that others are not is astounding.-- 2984:

What I suggest you do, is to perhaps go to these places yourself, as you seem to be more than familiar with them, gather some

1476: 3435: 2573:

ACCrlo tampendi, ngadlu Kaurna yertangga banbabanbalyarnendi (inbarendi). Kaurna meyunna yaitya mattanya Womma Tarndanyako.

1534:"There is a lot of unfinished business; we still haven't properly dealt with the question of lands," Professor Dodson said. 1293: 1248: 961: 595: 2418: 1088:

press release was issued by the Kaurna themselves, regardless of whether the release is primarily about them. It's a fairly

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The Minister is having the matters you have raised examined and will forward a response to you at the earliest opportunity.

2867:? There seems to be a few contentious points here between a number of parties, so perhaps an outside opinion is warranted. 2841: 2471:

country without discussion removes context. Especially as a Vice-Regal residence where explicit statements have been made,

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Just checking that this is enough of a consensus to exclude without going to RfC. I'm not keen on reigniting an edit war.--

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In his address, Professor Dodson spoke of the important role played by the UN in "validating the indigenous experience".

971:) to participate, who agreed that it was unreliable, and reverted. The material was again restored. That's where we stand. 115: 2743:

There is no source, verifiable or not, that claims the protest actually happened. The Coober Pedy Times article appeared

501:

why don't you write a suggestion rather than just getting on your high horse every time we try to improve the article? --

2123: 694:

Native Title and Sovereignty Claimant. I hope this then begins to help clarify reality other than simplistic opinion.

682:"Does not show historical tenures which may have extinguished native title rights and interests in areas of the claim". 74: 2988:

references, and then add them to the article. Also, perhaps when you receive a response from Hon. Jay Weatherhill MP,

3901:, AKA Matt Fowler, is the principle agitator of the claim. He is known to have requested the CPRT to print the story 3771:

if, as I can only guess, the Kaurna claim mentioned in that article includes some or all of the site of Marble Hill.

1710:, which makes no mention that I can see. The current issue appears to be May 7, but I don't see a page 16 online. — 99: 47: 17: 2391: 2099:

thus outside any English Law or Sovereign - something ignored, conveniently forgotten, not taught, researched etc.

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http://oldsite.nntt.gov.au/cgi-bin/text_only/text_only.pl?conf=conf.xml&file=/applications/claimant/SC00_1.html

3916:

The ABC source, which is reliable, deals briefly and exclusively with reporting the rapid rejection of the "claim".

3074: 3067: 3063: 3059: 109: 2815: 3928:, and exceptional claims require exceptional sources. This doesn't even begin to satisfy such criteria. IMHO. -- 1662: 1413:, which merely lists the local councils which are affected by the claim (MH is within Adelaide Hills Council).-- 736:

Also, please indent your posts using semicolons to make it easier to follow the flow of a discussion. Thanks! --

3308: 2729:). It is once again the only newspaper in SA to see fit to print this. Did you ask them to print this yourself? 2258:. PLEASE remedy this good faith disrespect for posterity restore wiki Article Marble Hill Native Title Section. 2161:

and exported as a proprietary land system globally). These fundamental aspects of current South Australian and

1560:

at more than 100,000. The Rudd Government has followed the Howard government in rejecting the recommendation.

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http://www.parliament.sa.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/3E8288F8-273A-43D7-8EF9-C5C130D82827/.../66THURSDAY24JULY2009.doc

3782:

is not specific about which areas the Kaurna land claim includes. I think I'll leave further research to you.

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Mifren, did this protest actually happen? If it did, then fine, but the basis of inclusion into Knowledge is

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Thank you ABVS1936 does that stand for A Barossa Valley Son b.1936? Also what does Yeti Hunter mean for you?

1648:"In other words, if someone is the occupier of premises, you assume that they have title to those premises." 571:

I'm not aware of any native title claims relating to Marble Hill. Mifren, do you have a reliable source for

2702: 1761: 1289: 877: 710: 293:

http://www.parliament.sa.gov.au/NR/rdonlyres/3176D061-7DDD-42CB-BFF1.../12245/05THURSDAY25SEPTEMBER2009.doc

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Thanks, I was in the process of doing so then unfortunately when I pressed Enter you'd just beaten me ...

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Kaurna Declare Sovereignty and $ 47.5 Million Dollar Bill for Marble Hill at SA Governor's Open House Day

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http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Marble_Hill,_South_Australia&diff=326279131&oldid=324133972

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determination. Remembering that there is no actual evidence to proove that the "Natives" are not already

3331:

at the time of settlement, and therefore governed unceded territories", what inhibits Knowledge Editors

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and follow the links to apply for FOI SA Government Documents themselves or even write directly to Hon

278:

http://www.wozdac.com/lawson/default.php?Page=marblehill&PHPSESSID=0b03bce22dba7b3713516ab8fb34ca90

38: 3494:

Thank you for your serious considerations. I have left this in the hope then that there may have been

298:

http://www.sa.democrats.org.au/html/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=1547

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Author South Australia. Dept. for Environment and Heritage. Environmental and Geographic Information

2539:

On behalf of the Kaurna people I say “It’s good that you (all) came to Kaurna country” (ie welcome)

1367:

article here dealing with native Australian claims generally? That might be a better spot for it. —

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A simplified version, that is a little more detailed than the brief acknowledgement is as follows:

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ancestors identified from which contemporary descendents are Registered as Named Claimants in 2000.

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if not National Australian and British Commonwealth ie international interest. Especially when Hon

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and has necessitated a rearrangement of the parcels of land before the EOI could be released. ...

2594:

Kaurna people still embrace and long for their land, beliefs and way of life. This we recognise.’

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http://www.independentweekly.com.au/news/local/news/general/marble-hill-mansion-sold/1663935.aspx

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130 years Marble Hill backrent 29 Mar 2009 and formally reminded 29 Jun 2009, now owing interest.

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SA 5000 GPO Box 1047 Adelaide SA 5001 DX 138 Telephone (08) 8463 5680 Facsimile (08) 8463 5681

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E. Ripley - Neutral on source reliability, tending to opposing inclusion on notability grounds.

4480: 2641:‘We recognise (that) Kaurna people are the landowners and custodians of the Adelaide Plains.’ 1065:

Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves.

656:

Description : Environmental and Geographic Information, Dept. for Environment and Heritage,

383: 302: 4114: 3933: 3788: 3464: 3260: 3108: 2863:

These constant edits and reverts are coming mightily close to an editwar - might I suggest a

2797: 2769: 2666: 2448: 2403: 2364: 2356: 2092: 1864:-- you seemed baffled when I suggested to you earlier that some of your language is not very 1778: 1644:"In one sense, that's not inconsistent with the legal doctrine of presumption of regularity. 1455: 1418: 1391: 1357: 1324: 1199: 1105: 1049: 1014: 915: 897: 782: 741: 607: 580: 548: 506: 473: 360: 205: 134: 95: 3828: 2850: 2780: 1615:

Justice French writes in the latest edition of the Australian Law Reform Commission journal.

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should be considered a reliable source for their own claims. We aren't here to prove the

635:

SC00/1 S6001/00 SA 25/10/2000 22/08/2001

8: 3845: 3483: 3431: 1908:

was included in the 2000 Registered Native Title Claim not in 2009 which Kaurna Declared

1542:"We need to fix that because the sense of injustice over land is not going to go away." 1152: 1009:

site, Kaurna = the aboriginal group in whose name the Native Title Claim has been made.--

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The Coober Pedy Regional Times "article" was agreed to be of very sketchy notability in

2714:

Amazingly enough, I will. For all the same reasons we have gone over and over and over.

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request (eg, governmental emails, interdepartmental reportes, etc) original research? --

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I finally feel as though we now are getting somewhere. Have another look at the latest

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whose prose bears a lot of striking similarity to other things written by Matt Fowler (

1596:

changes to the native title process to lift the "heavy (emotional and financial) burden

4487:

government and policing circles in the 1880s and 1890s have been linked to Aboriginal

3652:

Thank you for your email to the former Minister for Environment and Conservation, Hon

2751:

claims the article was written "20 hours ago", ie about an hour before the "protest").

2178:

apparently decimating the Kaurna population down to 1000. From which there are only 8

910:, though perhaps RfC may be more appropriate since we already have 3 opinions here. -- 4513:

Historian Tony Roberts says senior colonial politicians and South Australian police '

3925: 3574: 3556: 2091:

1836 which was colonised, settled, invaded, "conquered" depending on perspective and

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you are the one who has to demonstrate that this is notable and worthy of inclusion

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It has "Infobox Australian Place" but the article is about Marble Hill residence.

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I just removed the reference to Playford sheltering with the governor and family.

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We acknowledge the Kaurna people. They are the land owners from a long time ago.

2524:

Martuityangga Kaurna meyunna, ngai wanggandi “Marni naa budni Kaurna yertaanna.”

2367:) 08:25, 19 April 2009 (UTC) question "Mifren, do you have a reliable source for 2158: 2037: 1965: 1905: 1868:

and so I am going to be very blunt in pointing out an instance here. You said:

1072: 725:, so please leave the material out until we've had it out on the talk page. Sigh. 672:"Native title claim boundary sourced from NNTT and current as at 10 August 2001". 630:

Tribunal file no. Federal Court file no. State Application date Decision date

80: 4995: 4132:

twisted twin tale ... we whitefellas have perpetrated and now here in wikipedia

2552:

A very brief statement of acknowledgement in the Kaurna language is as follows:

1870:

I find your rapid interest intriguing YH, what motivates you and your logic now?

46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

5090:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1841726&l=d4204fd34d&id=618637254

5043:

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=1287940&l=1688a8b971&id=618637254

4785: 4664: 3842: 3589: 3480: 3365: 3209: 3132: 2296: 2209: 2080: 1995: 1969: 1952: 1921: 1874: 1851: 1773:

If it doesn't mention Marble Hill, nowhere. You will continue to be reverted.--

1722: 1711: 1698: 1669: 1429: 1401: 1368: 1335: 1307: 1260: 1235: 1221: 1211: 1162: 1149: 1120: 1076: 1034: 968: 937: 840: 410: 348: 236: 222: 149: 126: 2591:‘We Adelaide City Councillors acknowledge that we are meeting on Kaurna land. 1920:

written claim/s further demonstrated by 1st NSW Governor Capt (later Admiral)

1161:

Thank you for the information. It's an interesting and unfortunate subject. —

221:

Mifren - Knowledge is not a place for soapboxing, it is a place to write in a

4789: 4538: 4502:

and Sir John Downer, grandfather of former foreign minister Alexander Downer.

3910: 3906: 3816:

presented a claim, and an "unpaid rent" bill for $ 47.5 million, for the site

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http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=71928&id=618637254&l=e220991089

2809:

The following photographic documentation may in fact help this determination:

2658: 2395: 2347: 2295:, whose sudden appearance has little weight here in determining consensus. — 2154: 2041: 2025: 1947: 1928: 1865: 1861: 1630:"Such agreements might be limited to crown land or reserves of various kinds. 1303: 1093: 599: 352: 307:

these buildings are undoubtedly of great regional and/or national importance

232: 166: 122: 3135:

statements and political bantering, then it does not belong in this article.

1964:

What spefically was uncivil so I may better learn and if necessary have the

1708: 1187:

Peripitus - Opposes inclusion on the grounds that the sources are unreliable

978: 4894: 4603: 4585: 4273: 4154: 4121: 3680: 3619: 3593: 3552: 3119: 2902: 2857:

http://www.orac.gov.au/Document.aspx?documentID=137878&concernID=104043

2789: 2387: 2251: 2239: 2175: 2135: 1847: 1826: 1502:

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25549168-5013172,00.html

1379: 952: 933: 540: 344: 254: 181:

amending Native Title and sale of Marble Hill as a SA State Heritage site?

3143:, not me, to provide reliable references to support your statements here. 2069:

Cook then sailed through Torres Strait, returning to England in May 1771.

974:

It should also be noted that Mifren is a co-author of the 2009 claim (here

640:

http://catalogue.nla.gov.au/Record/1458736?lookfor=&offset=&max=23

4949: 4837: 4807: 4751: 4681: 4619: 4499: 4457: 4376: 4373: 4369: 4326: 4296: 4246: 4228: 4224: 4206: 4129: 4125: 4046: 3978: 3898: 3869: 3747: 3728: 3615: 3541: 3444: 3403: 3343: 3295: 3234: 3229: 3173: 3090: 3035: 2957: 2825: 2757: 2726: 2694: 2642: 2624:

We recognise (that) the Kaurna people are still alive (ie have survived)

2493: 2422: 2372: 2315: 2277: 2259: 2205: 2200: 2183: 1977: 1933: 1909: 1900:

term use in "has no useful purpose except to inflame the discussion". ie

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It seems to be mostly a rehash of the (also unreliable, self-published)

1483:

Subject: 105th Justice & Peace Candle Light Walk around Government

1181:

Mifren - Supports inclusion on the grounds that the sources are reliable

1092:(it would require a rewrite of Australian law on a similar scale to the 5054: 4902: 4898: 4811: 4642: 4615: 4576: 4526: 4452: 4380: 4295:

Clearly pointing out Sovereign Kaurna Yerta (Land) naming Marble Hill,

4040: 4009: 3997: 3672: 3571: 3564: 3549: 3511: 3391: 3169: 3038: 3015: 2585:

Ngadlu yerlteriburka ACCko tampendi ngadlu Kaurna yertangga inbarendi.

2343: 2231: 2228: 2143: 2033: 2008: 964: 853: 3808:

Marble hill is within the area often noted as traditional Kaurna land.

2398:

can be ignored, but at least I will better understand your position.--

1927:

and subsequent South Australia Letters Patent 1836 Crown Claim/s thus

1255:

burden of satisfying Knowledge's policies, particularly as it regards

321:

large is given a greater say in conserving the historic environment.

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By Johnsto Hinton, Elliott Johnston, Martin G. Hinton, Daryle Rigney

2468: 2413: 2171: 2151: 2147: 2107: 2096: 2020: 1973: 1902:

Three_degrees_of_comparison#Rhetorical_use_of_unbalanced_comparatives

1850:

for the claim that the Kaurna made a claim on Marble Hill in 2009. —

437:

with Dr Patricia Bishop and Mr Edwin Michell for the future sale and

4724: 3285: 1695: 1574:

http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,,25313301-5005962,00.html

1467:

Australia's native title system of bias against Aboriginal claimants

975: 653:

Scale Scale ca. 1:250 000 (E 138⁰00'--E 139⁰00'/S 33⁰30'--S 35⁰30')

543:

then we can include it. But for now, do you have any suggestions? --

177:

and finally management of the place in accordance with the policy."

4929: 4922: 4879: 4875: 4867: 4844: 4818: 4796: 4768: 4635: 4599: 4589: 4495: 4484: 4354: 4266: 4058: 3989: 3820:"AN ADELAIDE FIRST, KAURNA PEOPLE CALL FOR THE RENT ON MARBLE HILL" 3643: 3639: 3537: 3514: 3384: 3042: 3025: 2733: 2609:

Ngadlu Kaurna meyunna tampendi. Parna yerta mattanya bukkiunangko.

2255: 2235: 2012: 1897: 1620:"A presumption subject to proof to the contrary is to be preferred. 1345: 1145: 947:

I'll try to give you a neutral rundown. Some material was added by

375: 5078:

Kaurna Native Title Custodian Ngangkiburka Georgina Yambo Williams

4008:? We have not even met despite my invitations over time ...) thus 2747:

the protest's supposed start time (the time is currently 0930 and

1594:

High Court Chief Justice Robert French has suggested three "modest

774:

Communicating directly with the Kaurna would be original research.

84:

this ambiguous one. Does anyone have better information than me?

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The ABC source, ... reporting the rapid rejection of the "claim".

4032: 3865: 3713: 3661: 3635: 3501: 3424: 3399: 3361: 2638:

Ngadlu tampendi Kaurna meyunna yerta mattanya Womma Tarndanyako.

2243: 445: 3694:

at Marble Hill. This prevented the offer of the land either for

3060:

recorded Kaurna names around what is also now called Marble Hill

1579:

Prime Minister 'open' to reversing native title burden of proof

4984:

http://hansard.parliament.sa.gov.au/pages/loaddoc.aspx?sp=10032

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http://www.abc.net.au/rn/latenightlive/stories/2009/2689027.htm

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The territory of the Kaurna Plains is exclusively Kaurna land.

2464: 2390:. I've already sought advice regarding this specific case, and 2179: 2167: 1821: 852:

Again I refute, Peripitus your comment that the information is

806: 427: 4764:

Work SMART = Specific+Measureable+Achieveable+Realistic+Timely

4128:

and nothing to do with the Kaurna-Peramangk V King William IV

2119:

http://www.foundingdocs.gov.au/enlargement.asp?eID=4&pID=2

1530:

expectancy gap between indigenous and non-indigenous people.

1493:

http://www.premcab.sa.gov.au/dpc/department_aard_calendar.html

932:

Hi everyone, I've arrived here as a result of your request at

591: 459:

in an attempt to block the sale. The bill was defeated in the

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for Marble Hill. I apologise for the delay in this response.

3410: 3369: 3122:

here - there have already been a number of violations of the

3032: 3021: 2247: 1349: 857: 196:

So if I follow you correctly, you wish to use Knowledge as a

3291:

http://auspics.org.au/bill_of_rights/dominiumCASE29_8_04.pdf

2561:

The Adelaide City Council acknowledgement in English reads:

1496:

http://www.premcab.sa.gov.au/pdf/reconciliation_calendar.pdf

598:). I have removed the native title section as unsourced per 374:"nobody" reference used to justify what seems to me to be a 4914: 4906: 4864: 4860: 4825: 4792: 4757:

REMEMBER that there is no "I" in TEAM = Together Everybody

4743: 4711: 4699: 4677: 4546: 4498:. Those names include former South Australian premiers Sir 4481:

http://www.abc.net.au/rn/breakfast/stories/2009/2680540.htm

4447:"But Liberal sources say the then federal Member for Mayo, 4392: 4362: 4300: 4158: 4117: 4111: 4021: 3993: 3982: 3857: 3743: 3706: 3695: 3691: 3676: 3585: 3578: 3560: 3533: 3525: 3495: 3086: 3029: 3012: 2223: 2139: 2089:

Letters Patent establishing the Province of South Australia

1924: 1917: 517: 448: 430: 303:

http://accforum.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php?t6718.html

261: 4606:

of northern Australia in the late 19th century. He claims

3041:

South Australians have had to wait until an English born (

2760:. I am yet to see anything to convince me that you didn't 2208:. That is where we are now. Let's try to stay focused. — 1707:

Addendum: I've been able to access the Apr. 23 issue here

384:

http://www.wikihow.com/Avoid-Colloquial-(Informal)-Writing

4561: 4406: 4350: 4347: 4333:... always was Kaurna Yerta, always will be Kaurna Yerta. 4221: 4181: 4050: 3772: 3518: 3416: 3407: 2851:

http://www.oratsic.gov.au/Document.aspx?documentID=189324

2781:

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/01/2614089.htm

148:

How about a discussion below Mifren and Yeti Hunter ? -

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http://en.wordpress.com/tag/marble-hill-on-kaurna-land/

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Governor Hindmarsh Commander-in-Chief Proclamation 1836

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guess it depends on what one may define as "news" with

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recordings from ABCRN Late Night Live could help gain

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We are not going to play edit tennis over this again,

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http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MqLJ/2005/9.html

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http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/journals/MqLJ/2005/9.html

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MLC FOI revealed that in 2004 DEH amended Marble Hill

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Both - Next time before you play edit tennis consider

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Department of Administrative and Information Services

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Ladies and gentlemen, are you (all) good? (ie hello)

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http://antarsa.auspics.org.au/wodlianni/ShaunBerg.pdf

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I guess a lack of edit warring was too much to ask.--

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http://www.facebook.com/matthewrobertfowler?ref=name

1511:David Nason, New York correspondent | May 28, 2009 1507:

Reconciliation waits compensation, says Mick Dodson

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From: Roma Mitchell Community Legal Centre Inc. <

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see self-published sources as a source on themselves

499:"SA Parliament Hon Michelle Lensink MLC due process" 4460:who suppressed South Australian Police (now SAPOL) 2542:My dear sister(s) (and) brother(s). (ie thank you) 4680:of the fathers are visited upon the 3rd & 4th 3581:. b) HM 3rd Royal Son & Heir, King William IV 3286:http://en.wikipedia.org/User_talk:ABVS1936#Welcome 4973:News - Premier & Ministers of South Australia 4845:http://en.wikipedia.org/Terra_Australis_Incognita 3011:I have. What I find fascinating is that born and 2859:Documents for Kaurna Yerta Aboriginal Corporation 2681:I imagine that YH will rush to undo "29 Jun 2009 2332: 3333:Revision history of Marble Hill, South Australia 2421:thus again I fail to see the point of reverting. 1272:http://oldsite.nntt.gov.au/registration/494.html 1210:editors opposed to retaining the information. — 620:http://oldsite.nntt.gov.au/registration/494.html 4750:through personal, professional & community 4549:, and will be ready for publication next year." 2555:Kaurna meyunna, Kaurna yerta, ngadlu tampendi. 283:http://markparnell.org.au/speech.php?speech=442 4986:Marble Hill (Protection) Bill - Second Reading 4626:at the time, including Sir John Downer, twice 3769:List of native title claims in South Australia 3461:List of native title claims in South Australia 2612:Ngadlu tampendi Kaurna meyunna burro purruna. 4996:http://www.premier.sa.gov.au/news.php?id=3860 3841:with Marble Hill then more could be added. - 2558:‘We recognise Kaurna people and their land.’ 3822:. Coober Pedy Regional Times. June 29, 2009. 3085:internal links as per Australian High Court 2346:, 1834 South Australia Act barren wasteland 688:DEH-DEC Senior Planning Officer Richard Fox. 4149:I now again refer you all to Living Kaurna 2615:Pangkarra Womma Kaurna, Kaurnakundi yerta. 2359:)) Hopefully finally this will now answer 1220:I've gone ahead and removed the section. — 963:). The new claim appeared again sourced to 627:Kaurna Peoples Native Title Claim Accepted 624:Application name Decision 5033:NATIVE TITLE CLAIM - UPDATE 12 AUGUST 2003 2117:Specifically the original long hand image 167:http://www.icomos.org/australia/burra.html 4710:NAIDOC Non Indigenous Person of the Year 2308: 2150:because many if not most "dwellings" are 381:write, "I'll do almost anything for you." 3323:Decision 1992, that the King George III 2075:Founding Documents Documenting Democracy 1304:Knowledge expects civility among editors 4795:, acknowledge Yerta, this Land around " 2618:Literal translation of Kaurna version: 2597:Anglicare Statement of Acknowledgement 2419:Is a Freedom of Information request OR? 1500:FURTHER FROM LATEST BULLETIN UPDATE: " 14: 5093:Ribgner Green, Manager of this Centre] 3831:. Australian Broadcasting Corporation. 3383:of any Aboriginal Natives of the said 2570:A Kaurna translation of this follows: 2439:asked, "Is information obtained via a 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 5045:Photos from Government House Open Day 2779:UPDATE: A reliable source, finally - 2083:) extended this by having sealed the 2079:Then King William IV (who's wife was 1488:full equity of all the Descendants. 1316:This diff from Peripitus sums it up: 163:http://en.wikipedia.org/Burra_Charter 144:Move the slow edit war to here please 5055:http://www.newsmaker.com.au/news/948 4897:with their Country's Sovereignty in 3787:Just my opinion, I hope this helps! 2527:Ngaityo yakkanandalya, yungandalya. 2490:"Indigenous Australians and the law" 2032:Master then Leutenant (later Capt) 497:OK then, if you're so down with our 468:How's that for fair and balanced? -- 25: 5021:Kaurna Peoples Native Title Claim 4676:it mentions several times that the 4545:: A History of the Gulf Country to 3829:"SA Govt rejects Marble Hill claim" 3630:Minister Assisting the Minister in 2677:Marble Hill 130 Years Back Rent Due 2417:"interdepartmental" correspondence 1912:external to Master (later Captain) 1598:it places on the parties involved. 267:occupied or enjoyed by such Natives 23: 3139:but the onus is for the moment on 117:are not constructive. Please read 24: 5105: 4901:. I also recognise the Sovereign 4725:http://www.figtree-networx.com.au 4329:has and will not, cannot ever be 3559:" in the name of King George III 2762:make this whole thing up yourself 1860:Also, Mifren, please remember to 1604:needed to establish native title. 18:Talk:Marble Hill, South Australia 3804:claim. How about a line of text 3319:Given our Australian High Court 2334: 984:Right of Reply: again this is a 29: 5082: 5071: 4834:La Australia del Espiritu Santo 3168:record I do not identify as a " 3070:at what we now call Marble Hill 2518:Ngangkinna, meyunna! Na marni? 1994:the list Yeti Hunter created.— 5060: 5048: 5036: 5024: 5012: 5001: 4989: 4977: 4966: 4714:Central Australia Co-Recipient 4451:, worked equally hard for the 3583:South Australia Letters Patent 3348:South Australia Letters Patent 3054:Irrespective here are some of 2274:Consensus#Consensus_can_change 2170:since 1836 if not before with 1177:So the positions we have are: 993:for me feels like harrassment 453:South Australian Liberal Party 433:the State Government signed a 259:South Australia Letters Patent 104:02:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC) 13: 1: 4659:This remind me of the recent 4205:Kaura people and others with 3810:(lots of references for this) 3612:Government of South Australia 3588:in addition to Governor Capt 3487:22:45, 27 November 2009 (UTC) 3473:11:09, 27 November 2009 (UTC) 3453:04:30, 27 November 2009 (UTC) 3430:Further, a recent example of 2311:File:Page16 April 30 2009.pdf 2157:(which was developed here in 1515:Article from: The Australian 1472:Forwarded message ---------- 553:15:25, 13 November 2008 (UTC) 534:15:20, 13 November 2008 (UTC) 511:14:58, 13 November 2008 (UTC) 493:07:02, 13 November 2008 (UTC) 478:01:55, 13 November 2008 (UTC) 457:Marble Hill (Protection) Bill 417:20:41, 12 November 2008 (UTC) 395:11:47, 12 November 2008 (UTC) 4998:Jay Weatherill press release 4958:15:42, 4 December 2009 (UTC) 3938:04:14, 4 December 2009 (UTC) 3878:03:38, 4 December 2009 (UTC) 3849:00:42, 4 December 2009 (UTC) 3797:14:28, 3 December 2009 (UTC) 3756:11:22, 2 December 2009 (UTC) 3304:20:26, 26 October 2009 (UTC) 3265:00:21, 18 October 2009 (UTC) 3243:16:43, 17 October 2009 (UTC) 2901:Culture Centre, Sturt Road, 2842:Kaurna Land Claim References 2600:Original Anglicare Wording: 2463:Removing acknowledgement of 2238:with a record and 24h ban - 1382:does not mean we can ignore 1100:written all over it to me.-- 965:a press release by Newsmaker 365:18:23, 8 November 2008 (UTC) 337:15:14, 7 November 2008 (UTC) 243:20:59, 6 November 2008 (UTC) 210:07:53, 6 November 2008 (UTC) 191:01:55, 6 November 2008 (UTC) 156:20:45, 5 November 2008 (UTC) 7: 4767:If you are not part of the 4108:Attorney General Department 4105:South Australian Government 3491:Dear Richard and Peripitus 3402:or in the Persons of their 3182:22:19, 12 August 2009 (UTC) 3153:10:16, 12 August 2009 (UTC) 3113:04:31, 11 August 2009 (UTC) 3099:18:46, 10 August 2009 (UTC) 2242:. Related concepts include 677:"Mapped: 15th August 2001". 10: 5110: 4836:(the southern land of the 4698:Matthew Fowler BSc (UWoll 4602:against Aborigines in the 4483:"Some of the top names in 3346:preceding King William IV 3325:Royal Proclamation of 1763 3003:06:39, 2 August 2009 (UTC) 2966:20:37, 1 August 2009 (UTC) 2877:13:09, 1 August 2009 (UTC) 2392:the answer was unequivocal 1741:the name of Kaurna Yerta. 920:14:03, 29 April 2009 (UTC) 902:10:05, 28 April 2009 (UTC) 882:02:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC) 847:12:08, 27 April 2009 (UTC) 825:02:34, 27 April 2009 (UTC) 787:00:30, 27 April 2009 (UTC) 769:23:14, 26 April 2009 (UTC) 746:00:58, 26 April 2009 (UTC) 715:20:51, 25 April 2009 (UTC) 659:1 map : col. ; 97 x 68 cm. 612:07:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC) 585:08:25, 19 April 2009 (UTC) 75:Playford present on Jan 2? 4842:Terra Australis incognita 4134:systemically discriminate 3812:In 2009 the Kaurna people 2774:00:21, 30 June 2009 (UTC) 2707:20:50, 29 June 2009 (UTC) 2651:21:26, 27 June 2009 (UTC) 2502:08:19, 27 June 2009 (UTC) 2335:File:NATIVETITLEMHILL.JPG 2163:Commonwealth of Australia 1972:or defence to remedy any 4409:- there can be only one? 3731:land claim issues after 3656:MP, concerning the EOI ( 3544:tales since: a) HM Bark 3321:Mabo v Queensland (No 2) 2834:07:40, 4 July 2009 (UTC) 2802:13:40, 1 July 2009 (UTC) 2671:14:16, 1 July 2009 (UTC) 2510:Kaurna Welcome Protocols 2453:01:23, 27 May 2009 (UTC) 2431:01:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2408:00:03, 2 June 2009 (UTC) 2381:15:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC) 2324:04:54, 15 May 2009 (UTC) 2301:03:50, 15 May 2009 (UTC) 2286:03:30, 15 May 2009 (UTC) 2268:17:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC) 2214:03:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC) 2192:17:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC) 2011:I'm assuming that logic 2000:03:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC) 1986:17:56, 12 May 2009 (UTC) 1957:03:57, 11 May 2009 (UTC) 1942:16:08, 10 May 2009 (UTC) 1879:13:09, 10 May 2009 (UTC) 1856:13:04, 10 May 2009 (UTC) 1798:02:19, 10 May 2009 (UTC) 1783:01:23, 10 May 2009 (UTC) 1766:00:56, 10 May 2009 (UTC) 1658:17:48, 4 June 2009 (UTC) 1003:00:47, 11 May 2009 (UTC) 223:neutral and balanced way 139:16:08, 15 May 2008 (UTC) 110:Editing by the Democrats 4925:Cultural and Spiritual 3253:Ashton, South Australia 2758:verfiability, not truth 2734:Newsmaker press release 1727:14:28, 9 May 2009 (UTC) 1716:13:50, 9 May 2009 (UTC) 1703:13:50, 9 May 2009 (UTC) 1688:15:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1674:15:23, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1582:April 09, 2009 11:56am 1460:17:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1434:17:41, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1423:17:36, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1406:17:30, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1396:17:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1373:16:52, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1362:16:41, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1340:16:37, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1329:16:30, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1312:16:28, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1294:16:07, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1265:16:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1249:15:46, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1226:03:29, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1216:02:36, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1204:02:32, 6 May 2009 (UTC) 1167:14:31, 5 May 2009 (UTC) 1156:22:12, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1125:16:40, 4 May 2009 (UTC) 1110:03:10, 3 May 2009 (UTC) 1081:13:35, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 1054:03:44, 2 May 2009 (UTC) 1039:12:17, 1 May 2009 (UTC) 1019:06:56, 1 May 2009 (UTC) 942:04:54, 1 May 2009 (UTC) 370:Interesting to see the 257:which goes against the 4771:, are you part of the 4405:like some sort of wiki 3814:(text used by the ABC) 3773:http://www.nntt.gov.au 3658:Expression of Interest 3600:Dec28 annually since. 3327:was seen to apply to " 3103:Facebook ≠ reliable.-- 2521:Ngai narri _________. 2441:freedom of information 2339: 1348:, among other things. 4943:. WITHOUT PREJUDICE - 4199:Names as recorded by 4115:Australian High Court 3596:1836 commemorated on 3577:Secret Sealed Orders 3419:actually occupied or 2536:My name is _________ 2338: 2093:Australian High Court 1344:That and the City of 42:of past discussions. 4817:Ancestral Sovereign 4667:" when the captured 3284:I note despite your 3064:North Adelaide Hills 2986:reliable, verifiable 2606:Kaurna translation: 1820:The 2000 Registered 1663:Mifren's restoration 805:Warriparinga Living 798:http://www.sa.gov.au 4947:ALL RIGHTS RESERVED 4870:their descendants' 4191:Land Services Group 4057:, is the principle 3959:: - "get behind me 3913:all over the place. 3893:Their print-edition 3592:Commander in chief 3432:revisionist history 2736:of a few weeks ago. 2459:Welcome to Country? 2028:created since 1770 1454:now hopefully the ( 1090:extraordinary claim 461:Legislative Council 400:Non-arbitrary break 4911:Queen of Australia 4832:sometime known as 4493:Northern Territory 4082:as discussed above 4012:(for me at least) 3903:as discussed above 3746:were handed back? 3712:How then may I/we 2953:Operations Manager 2414:strawman arguement 2340: 1586:Article from: AAP 991:strawman arguments 435:Heads of Agreement 4921:" and that their 4723:Figtree Networks 4157:hall and wall of 4103:" only refers to 3966:I see now that :* 3953:WITHOUT PREJUDICE 3889:discussions above 3833: 3824: 3815: 3811: 3575:British Admiralty 3557:Possession Island 3540:the twisted twin 3218: 3204:comment added by 2993:benefits no-one. 2710: 2693:comment added by 2085:Founding Document 2030:HM Bark Endeavour 1862:assume good faith 1769: 1752:comment added by 1297: 1280:comment added by 906:I've requested a 885: 868:comment added by 812:original research 793:Ignoratio elenchi 718: 701:comment added by 644:Bib ID 1458736 114:Edits like these 106: 90:comment added by 72: 71: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 5101: 5094: 5086: 5080: 5075: 5069: 5064: 5058: 5052: 5046: 5040: 5034: 5028: 5022: 5016: 5010: 5005: 4999: 4993: 4987: 4981: 4975: 4970: 4830:island continent 4543:Frontier Justice 4449:Alexander Downer 4401:wikiEditors who 4201:Norman B Tindale 3968:User:Yeti Hunter 3832: 3826: 3823: 3817: 3813: 3809: 3789:Richard Keatinge 3775:strikes me as a 3598:Proclamation Day 3555:Sovereignty at " 3465:Richard Keatinge 3274:ABVS1936 reverts 3217: 3198: 3129:reliable sources 3056:Norman B Tindale 2709: 2687: 2336: 2314: 2312: 2142:only applies to 1768: 1746: 1296: 1274: 1117:General Electric 888:"1st witness" = 884: 862: 802:Michelle Lensink 717: 695: 251:Michelle Lensink 85: 63: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 5109: 5108: 5104: 5103: 5102: 5100: 5099: 5098: 5097: 5087: 5083: 5076: 5072: 5065: 5061: 5053: 5049: 5041: 5037: 5029: 5025: 5017: 5013: 5006: 5002: 4994: 4990: 4982: 4978: 4971: 4967: 4810:) of so far 9x 4735:Our continuing 4634:and one of the 4632:South Australia 4541:is part two of 3947:NATURAL JUSTICE 3827: 3818: 3777:reliable source 3690:on some of the 3628:Substance Abuse 3335:recognition of 3317: 3276: 3199: 3192: 3075:Adelaide Plains 2938:Yours sincerely 2844: 2723:another article 2688: 2679: 2461: 2331: 2329:still restoring 2310: 2206:reliable source 2174:down along the 2159:South Australia 2104:Provided Always 2038:New South Wales 1966:natural justice 1848:reliable source 1747: 1665: 1469: 1275: 1175: 930: 863: 696: 569: 541:reliable source 455:introduced the 441:of Marble Hill. 402: 146: 112: 77: 59: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 5107: 5096: 5095: 5081: 5070: 5059: 5047: 5035: 5023: 5011: 5000: 4988: 4976: 4964: 4963: 4962: 4961: 4960: 4944: 4779: 4778: 4777: 4776: 4765: 4762: 4755: 4730: 4729: 4728: 4727: 4718: 4717: 4716: 4715: 4708: 4703: 4693: 4692: 4691: 4690: 4689: 4688: 4665:Prince Caspian 4652: 4651: 4650: 4649: 4641:of Australian 4588:describes his 4582: 4581: 4580: 4553: 4552: 4551: 4550: 4533: 4532: 4531: 4530: 4508: 4507: 4506: 4505: 4504: 4503: 4472: 4471: 4470: 4469: 4445: 4444: 4443: 4432: 4431: 4430: 4429: 4415: 4414: 4413: 4412: 4411: 4410: 4339: 4338: 4337: 4336: 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2388:primary source 2330: 2327: 2304: 2303: 2219: 2218: 2217: 2216: 2081:Queen Adelaide 2005: 2004: 2003: 2002: 1970:right of reply 1962: 1961: 1960: 1959: 1922:Arthur Phillip 1889: 1888: 1887: 1886: 1885: 1884: 1883: 1882: 1881: 1836: 1835: 1834: 1833: 1832: 1831: 1813: 1812: 1811: 1810: 1803: 1802: 1801: 1800: 1734: 1733: 1732: 1731: 1730: 1729: 1664: 1661: 1647: 1643: 1639: 1635: 1629: 1625: 1619: 1612: 1608: 1601: 1593: 1589: 1585: 1578: 1572: 1567: 1563: 1558: 1554: 1549: 1545: 1541: 1537: 1533: 1528: 1523: 1518: 1514: 1510: 1506: 1486: 1482: 1470: 1468: 1465: 1464: 1463: 1452: 1451: 1450: 1449: 1448: 1447: 1446: 1445: 1444: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1268: 1267: 1231: 1230: 1229: 1228: 1192: 1191: 1188: 1185: 1182: 1174: 1171: 1170: 1169: 1140: 1139: 1138: 1137: 1136: 1135: 1134: 1133: 1132: 1131: 1130: 1129: 1128: 1127: 1069: 982: 981: 972: 969:User:Peripitus 929: 926: 925: 924: 923: 922: 904: 890:primary source 836: 835: 834: 833: 832: 831: 830: 829: 828: 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4733: 4732: 4731: 4726: 4722: 4721: 4720: 4719: 4713: 4709: 4707: 4704: 4701: 4697: 4696: 4695: 4694: 4687: 4683: 4679: 4675: 4670: 4666: 4662: 4658: 4657: 4656: 4655: 4654: 4653: 4648: 4644: 4640: 4637: 4633: 4629: 4625: 4621: 4617: 4613: 4609: 4605: 4601: 4598: 4595: 4591: 4587: 4583: 4578: 4574: 4570: 4567: 4563: 4559: 4558: 4557: 4556: 4555: 4554: 4548: 4544: 4540: 4539:Rough Justice 4537: 4536: 4535: 4534: 4528: 4524: 4520: 4516: 4512: 4511: 4510: 4509: 4501: 4497: 4494: 4490: 4486: 4482: 4478: 4477: 4476: 4475: 4474: 4473: 4467: 4463: 4459: 4454: 4450: 4446: 4442: 4438: 4437: 4436: 4435: 4434: 4433: 4427: 4423: 4422: 4421: 4417: 4416: 4408: 4404: 4400: 4397: 4394: 4390: 4386: 4382: 4378: 4375: 4371: 4367: 4364: 4360: 4356: 4352: 4349: 4345: 4344: 4343: 4342: 4341: 4340: 4332: 4328: 4325: 4322: 4319: 4318: 4317: 4316: 4315: 4314: 4313: 4312: 4302: 4299:etc from pre- 4298: 4294: 4293: 4292: 4291: 4290: 4289: 4288: 4287: 4284: 4283: 4281: 4278: 4275: 4272: 4268: 4262: 4260: 4256: 4252: 4251:Ribgner Green 4248: 4244: 4240: 4238: 4234: 4230: 4226: 4223: 4219: 4215: 4211: 4208: 4203: 4202: 4197: 4196: 4192: 4189: 4185: 4183: 4180: 4168: 4164: 4160: 4156: 4152: 4148: 4147: 4146: 4145: 4144: 4143: 4135: 4131: 4127: 4123: 4119: 4116: 4113: 4109: 4106: 4102: 4098: 4097: 4096: 4095: 4094: 4093: 4085: 4083: 4080: 4076: 4072: 4068: 4064: 4060: 4056: 4052: 4048: 4042: 4038: 4034: 4031: 4027: 4023: 4019: 4015: 4011: 4007: 4003: 3999: 3995: 3991: 3987: 3984: 3980: 3977: 3973: 3969: 3965: 3964: 3962: 3958: 3954: 3951: 3948: 3945: 3944: 3943: 3942: 3939: 3935: 3931: 3927: 3923: 3918: 3915: 3912: 3908: 3904: 3900: 3897: 3894: 3890: 3886: 3885: 3883: 3879: 3875: 3871: 3867: 3863: 3859: 3855: 3854: 3853: 3852: 3851: 3850: 3847: 3844: 3840: 3830: 3821: 3807: 3806: 3805: 3798: 3794: 3790: 3786: 3785: 3781: 3778: 3774: 3770: 3765: 3764: 3760: 3759: 3758: 3757: 3753: 3749: 3745: 3742: 3739:Oct 1985 and 3738: 3734: 3730: 3727: 3726:British Crown 3723: 3719: 3715: 3710: 3708: 3705: 3701: 3698:or long term 3697: 3693: 3689: 3685: 3682: 3678: 3674: 3670: 3665: 3663: 3659: 3655: 3650: 3647: 3645: 3641: 3638:House, 91-97 3637: 3633: 3629: 3625: 3624:Mental Health 3622:Minister for 3621: 3617: 3614:Minister for 3613: 3608: 3607:MLC FOI COPY 3606: 3601: 3599: 3595: 3591: 3587: 3584: 3580: 3576: 3573: 3569: 3566: 3562: 3558: 3554: 3551: 3547: 3543: 3539: 3535: 3531: 3527: 3522: 3520: 3516: 3513: 3510: 3506: 3503: 3500: 3497: 3492: 3489: 3488: 3485: 3482: 3474: 3470: 3466: 3462: 3457: 3456: 3455: 3454: 3450: 3446: 3443: 3442:best practice 3438: 3437: 3433: 3428: 3427: 3426: 3422: 3418: 3415: 3412: 3409: 3405: 3401: 3398:in their own 3397: 3393: 3390: 3386: 3382: 3378: 3374: 3371: 3367: 3364:in those our 3363: 3359: 3356: 3351: 3349: 3345: 3342: 3338: 3334: 3330: 3326: 3322: 3315: 3311: 3306: 3305: 3301: 3297: 3292: 3287: 3282: 3281: 3271: 3266: 3262: 3258: 3254: 3250: 3249: 3244: 3240: 3236: 3231: 3227: 3224:actually its 3223: 3222: 3221: 3220: 3219: 3215: 3211: 3207: 3203: 3195: 3183: 3179: 3175: 3171: 3165: 3160: 3154: 3150: 3146: 3142: 3137: 3134: 3130: 3125: 3121: 3116: 3115: 3114: 3110: 3106: 3102: 3101: 3100: 3096: 3092: 3088: 3084: 3080: 3076: 3072: 3069: 3065: 3061: 3057: 3053: 3052: 3051: 3050: 3044: 3040: 3037: 3034: 3031: 3027: 3023: 3020: 3017: 3014: 3010: 3009: 3008: 3007: 3004: 3000: 2996: 2991: 2987: 2983: 2982: 2978: 2973: 2972: 2967: 2963: 2959: 2955: 2952: 2950:Melissa Maida 2949: 2946: 2945: 2944: 2943: 2937: 2936: 2935: 2934: 2928: 2927: 2926: 2925: 2918: 2914: 2913: 2912: 2911: 2904: 2900: 2896: 2895: 2894: 2893: 2886: 2883: 2882: 2881: 2880: 2879: 2878: 2874: 2870: 2866: 2858: 2855: 2852: 2849: 2848: 2847: 2835: 2831: 2827: 2822: 2821: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2817: 2808: 2807: 2806: 2805: 2804: 2803: 2799: 2795: 2791: 2786: 2782: 2775: 2771: 2767: 2763: 2759: 2755: 2750: 2746: 2742: 2738: 2735: 2731: 2728: 2724: 2720: 2716: 2715: 2713: 2712: 2711: 2708: 2704: 2700: 2696: 2692: 2684: 2672: 2668: 2664: 2660: 2655: 2654: 2653: 2652: 2648: 2644: 2639: 2636: 2632: 2628: 2625: 2622: 2619: 2616: 2613: 2610: 2607: 2604: 2601: 2598: 2595: 2592: 2589: 2586: 2583: 2580: 2577: 2574: 2571: 2568: 2565: 2562: 2559: 2556: 2553: 2550: 2547: 2543: 2540: 2537: 2534: 2531: 2528: 2525: 2522: 2519: 2516: 2512: 2511: 2507: 2504: 2503: 2499: 2495: 2491: 2486: 2485: 2479: 2476: 2472: 2470: 2466: 2456: 2454: 2450: 2446: 2442: 2432: 2428: 2424: 2420: 2415: 2411: 2410: 2409: 2405: 2401: 2397: 2393: 2389: 2385: 2384: 2383: 2382: 2378: 2374: 2370: 2366: 2362: 2358: 2354: 2349: 2348:terra nullius 2345: 2337: 2326: 2325: 2321: 2317: 2313: 2302: 2298: 2294: 2290: 2289: 2288: 2287: 2283: 2279: 2275: 2270: 2269: 2265: 2261: 2257: 2253: 2249: 2245: 2241: 2237: 2233: 2230: 2225: 2215: 2211: 2207: 2202: 2198: 2197: 2196: 2195: 2194: 2193: 2189: 2185: 2181: 2177: 2173: 2169: 2164: 2160: 2156: 2155:Torrens Title 2153: 2149: 2145: 2141: 2137: 2132: 2128: 2125: 2121: 2120: 2116: 2112: 2111: 2109: 2105: 2100: 2098: 2094: 2090: 2086: 2082: 2077: 2076: 2070: 2067: 2063: 2061: 2055: 2051: 2047: 2045: 2043: 2042:terra nullius 2039: 2035: 2031: 2027: 2026:legal fiction 2022: 2019:from outside 2018: 2014: 2010: 2001: 1997: 1992: 1991: 1990: 1989: 1988: 1987: 1983: 1979: 1975: 1971: 1967: 1958: 1954: 1949: 1945: 1944: 1943: 1939: 1935: 1930: 1929:legal fiction 1926: 1923: 1919: 1915: 1911: 1907: 1903: 1899: 1895: 1890: 1880: 1876: 1871: 1867: 1863: 1859: 1858: 1857: 1853: 1849: 1844: 1843: 1842: 1841: 1840: 1839: 1838: 1837: 1828: 1823: 1819: 1818: 1817: 1816: 1815: 1814: 1807: 1806: 1805: 1804: 1799: 1795: 1791: 1786: 1785: 1784: 1780: 1776: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1767: 1763: 1759: 1755: 1751: 1742: 1738: 1728: 1724: 1719: 1718: 1717: 1713: 1709: 1706: 1705: 1704: 1700: 1696: 1692: 1691: 1690: 1689: 1685: 1681: 1676: 1675: 1671: 1660: 1659: 1655: 1651: 1645: 1641: 1637: 1633: 1632: 1627: 1623: 1622: 1617: 1616: 1610: 1606: 1605: 1599: 1597: 1591: 1587: 1583: 1580: 1576: 1575: 1570: 1565: 1561: 1556: 1552: 1547: 1543: 1539: 1535: 1531: 1526: 1521: 1516: 1512: 1508: 1504: 1503: 1498: 1497: 1494: 1489: 1484: 1480: 1477: 1473: 1461: 1457: 1453: 1435: 1431: 1426: 1425: 1424: 1420: 1416: 1412: 1409: 1408: 1407: 1403: 1399: 1398: 1397: 1393: 1389: 1385: 1381: 1376: 1375: 1374: 1370: 1365: 1364: 1363: 1359: 1355: 1351: 1347: 1343: 1342: 1341: 1337: 1332: 1331: 1330: 1326: 1322: 1318: 1315: 1314: 1313: 1309: 1305: 1300: 1299: 1298: 1295: 1291: 1287: 1283: 1279: 1273: 1266: 1262: 1258: 1253: 1252: 1251: 1250: 1246: 1242: 1237: 1227: 1223: 1219: 1218: 1217: 1213: 1208: 1207: 1206: 1205: 1201: 1197: 1189: 1186: 1183: 1180: 1179: 1178: 1168: 1164: 1160: 1159: 1158: 1157: 1154: 1151: 1147: 1126: 1122: 1118: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1107: 1103: 1099: 1095: 1094:Mabo Decision 1091: 1086: 1085: 1084: 1083: 1082: 1078: 1074: 1070: 1066: 1062: 1057: 1056: 1055: 1051: 1047: 1042: 1041: 1040: 1036: 1032: 1027: 1022: 1021: 1020: 1016: 1012: 1007: 1006: 1005: 1004: 1000: 996: 992: 987: 979: 976: 973: 970: 966: 962: 959: 954: 950: 946: 945: 944: 943: 939: 935: 921: 917: 913: 909: 905: 903: 899: 895: 891: 887: 886: 883: 879: 875: 871: 867: 859: 855: 851: 850: 849: 848: 845: 842: 826: 822: 818: 813: 808: 803: 799: 794: 790: 789: 788: 784: 780: 776: 772: 771: 770: 766: 762: 757: 756: 755: 754: 753: 752: 747: 743: 739: 735: 731: 727: 724: 720: 719: 716: 712: 708: 704: 700: 692: 691: 686: 685: 681: 680: 676: 675: 671: 670: 666: 665: 661: 658: 655: 652: 649: 646: 643: 641: 637: 634: 633: 629: 626: 623: 621: 616: 615: 614: 613: 609: 605: 601: 597: 593: 587: 586: 582: 578: 574: 554: 550: 546: 542: 537: 536: 535: 531: 527: 523: 519: 514: 513: 512: 508: 504: 500: 496: 495: 494: 490: 486: 481: 480: 479: 475: 471: 467: 462: 458: 454: 450: 447: 443: 440: 436: 432: 429: 425: 424: 421: 420: 419: 418: 415: 412: 407: 397: 396: 392: 388: 385: 382: 377: 373: 372:absolute term 366: 362: 358: 354: 350: 346: 341: 340: 339: 338: 334: 330: 327: 322: 318: 315: 310: 306: 304: 301: 299: 296: 294: 291: 289: 286: 284: 281: 279: 276: 275: 274: 270: 268: 263: 260: 256: 252: 244: 241: 238: 234: 230: 227: 224: 220: 219: 213: 212: 211: 207: 203: 199: 195: 194: 193: 192: 188: 184: 178: 174: 170: 168: 164: 158: 157: 154: 151: 141: 140: 136: 132: 128: 124: 120: 116: 107: 105: 101: 97: 93: 89: 82: 68: 65: 62: 58: 57: 49: 45: 41: 40: 35: 28: 27: 19: 5084: 5073: 5062: 5050: 5038: 5026: 5014: 5003: 4991: 4979: 4968: 4936:descendants 4895:relationship 4746:: community 4604:Gulf country 4586:Tony Roberts 4515:masterminded 4419: 4383:now to make 4331:extinguished 4309: 4274:Native Title 4265: 4264: 4263: 4241: 4204: 4198: 4186: 4176: 4161:, Sovereign 4155:Warriparinga 4122:Native Title 4100: 4073:the CPRT to 4044: 3838: 3836: 3801: 3711: 3681:native title 3666: 3651: 3648: 3620:Conservation 3609: 3602: 3594:Proclamation 3553:dispossessed 3523: 3493: 3490: 3477: 3439: 3429: 3353: 3352: 3318: 3283: 3279: 3277: 3269: 3196: 3193: 3140: 2989: 2985: 2976: 2903:Bedford Park 2862: 2845: 2814: 2784: 2778: 2744: 2680: 2640: 2637: 2633: 2629: 2626: 2623: 2620: 2617: 2614: 2611: 2608: 2605: 2602: 2599: 2596: 2593: 2590: 2587: 2584: 2581: 2578: 2575: 2572: 2569: 2566: 2563: 2560: 2557: 2554: 2551: 2548: 2544: 2541: 2538: 2535: 2532: 2530:Translation 2529: 2526: 2523: 2520: 2517: 2513: 2508: 2505: 2487: 2480: 2477: 2473: 2462: 2437: 2341: 2305: 2271: 2252:whipping boy 2240:scapegoating 2220: 2176:Murray River 2136:Native Title 2133: 2129: 2124:Proclamation 2122: 2113: 2103: 2102: 2101: 2078: 2071: 2068: 2064: 2058: 2056: 2052: 2048: 2046: 2006: 1963: 1946:I think the 1869: 1827:Kevin Scarce 1743: 1739: 1735: 1677: 1666: 1646: 1642: 1638: 1634: 1631: 1628: 1624: 1621: 1618: 1614: 1611: 1607: 1603: 1600: 1595: 1592: 1588: 1584: 1581: 1577: 1571: 1566: 1562: 1557: 1553: 1548: 1544: 1540: 1536: 1532: 1527: 1522: 1517: 1513: 1509: 1505: 1499: 1490: 1485: 1481: 1474: 1471: 1269: 1232: 1193: 1176: 1141: 1073:undue weight 1064: 1044:quoted it.-- 983: 953:Native Title 951:regarding a 931: 837: 588: 570: 567:Native Title 521: 498: 456: 403: 379: 371: 369: 323: 319: 316: 313: 271: 265: 255:Native Title 247: 179: 175: 171: 159: 147: 113: 78: 60: 43: 37: 4905:before our 4847:and that I 4838:Holy Spirit 4808:Traditional 4752:development 4682:generations 4620:politicians 4618:of various 4500:John Colton 4458:John Downer 4387:instead of 4377:geographers 4374:experienced 4370:independent 4327:Sovereignty 4297:Cherryville 4247:information 4229:alterations 4225:corrections 4207:appropriate 4188:Prepared by 4130:Sovereignty 4126:Legislation 4047:User:Mifren 3996:" (by what 3979:familiarity 3930:Yeti Hunter 3899:User:Mifren 3862:contributed 3729:Sovereignty 3634:9th Floor, 3616:Environment 3542:Sovereignty 3524:1/ I again 3499:considerate 3404:Descendants 3344:Sovereignty 3257:Yeti Hunter 3230:Sovereignty 3200:—Preceding 3105:Yeti Hunter 3073:also given 3036:Anglo-Saxon 3028:, possibly 2956:14/7/2009" 2888:undisputed? 2794:Yeti Hunter 2766:Yeti Hunter 2727:User:Mifren 2689:—Preceding 2663:Yeti Hunter 2445:Yeti Hunter 2400:Yeti Hunter 2361:Yeti Hunter 2353:Yeti Hunter 2134:Australian 1916:'s illegal 1910:Sovereignty 1894:superlative 1788:conditions. 1775:Yeti Hunter 1748:—Preceding 1415:Yeti Hunter 1388:Yeti Hunter 1380:tendentious 1354:Yeti Hunter 1321:Yeti Hunter 1276:—Preceding 1196:Yeti Hunter 1102:Yeti Hunter 1046:Yeti Hunter 1011:Yeti Hunter 986:red herring 949:User:Mifren 912:Yeti Hunter 908:3rd opinion 894:Yeti Hunter 864:—Preceding 779:Yeti Hunter 738:Yeti Hunter 697:—Preceding 647:Format Map 604:Yeti Hunter 577:Yeti Hunter 545:Yeti Hunter 503:Yeti Hunter 483:"balanced". 470:Yeti Hunter 378:arguement. 357:Yeti Hunter 202:Yeti Hunter 131:Yeti Hunter 92:Yeti Hunter 86:—Preceding 36:This is an 4917:"Adelaide 4903:Custodians 4899:perpetuity 4812:identified 4799:", as the 4761:More & 4643:Federation 4616:complicity 4577:compassion 4527:atrocities 4453:Opposition 4439:See also: 4381:historians 4120:Decision " 4041:good faith 4010:displaying 3998:friendship 3926:WP:REDFLAG 3839:in context 3716:these two 3673:discovered 3649:Dear Mr M 3572:Royal Navy 3565:apparently 3550:James Cook 3548:Master Lt 3536:could not 3530:comprehend 3512:historians 3434:includes: 3392:occupation 3368:contained 3278:Dear ABVS 3170:politician 3039:Protestant 3016:whitefella 2977:verifiable 2488:See also: 2344:James Cook 2293:meatpuppet 2232:prosecuted 2229:persecuted 2144:Crown Land 2034:James Cook 2009:good faith 1914:James Cook 1906:Crown Land 854:unreliable 198:WP:SOAPBOX 4892:Emotional 4872:Spiritual 4853:recognise 4824:from pre- 4801:Sovereign 4661:C S Lewis 4614:with the 4608:massacres 4597:excessive 4575:and even 4523:concealed 4489:slaughter 4466:Australia 4462:murdering 4366:qualified 4245:give any 4210:knowledge 4136:racially. 4071:requested 4037:awareness 4030:Sovereign 4006:agreement 4004:or other 4002:authority 3976:presuming 3970:is again 3843:Peripitus 3779:but even 3741:Hong Kong 3722:Peramangk 3684:continues 3671:, it was 3654:John Hill 3610:06EC0943 3605:Gail Gago 3568:breaching 3546:Endeavour 3528:to truly 3505:qualified 3481:Peripitus 3396:enjoyment 3377:construed 3341:Peramangk 3329:Australia 3314:Peramangk 3083:Peramangk 3019:Caucasian 2947:apparent 2718:ancestry. 2659:feel free 2469:Peramangk 2369:this diff 2297:e. ripley 2236:penalised 2210:e. ripley 2172:small pox 2152:free hold 2148:illogical 2108:enjoyment 2097:Sovereign 2021:Australia 1996:e. ripley 1974:dishonour 1953:e. ripley 1875:e. ripley 1852:e. ripley 1723:e. ripley 1712:e. ripley 1699:e. ripley 1670:e. ripley 1430:e. ripley 1402:e. ripley 1369:e. ripley 1336:e. ripley 1308:e. ripley 1261:e. ripley 1236:e. ripley 1222:e. ripley 1212:e. ripley 1163:e. ripley 1150:Peripitus 1121:e. ripley 1098:WP:MADEUP 1077:e. ripley 1035:e. ripley 958:WP:BURDEN 938:e. ripley 928:Synopsis? 841:Peripitus 596:this diff 592:Newsmaker 573:this diff 411:Peripitus 406:synthetic 237:Peripitus 150:Peripitus 119:WP:VERIFY 81:This cite 67:Archive 2 61:Archive 1 4930:continue 4923:inherent 4913:" & 4880:Economic 4876:Physical 4868:resource 4828:of this 4819:Original 4797:Adelaide 4769:solution 4759:Achieves 4663:Movie, " 4636:founding 4600:violence 4592:, which 4590:research 4560:Perhaps 4519:condoned 4496:frontier 4485:colonial 4355:petition 4346:Again I 4267:Boundary 4257:of this 4069:to have 4065:. 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