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others aware of their sexual orientation. I also think that any suggestion that Bronze's identity in this sense should be 'hidden' or 'protected' when it appears to be already known is disagreeable: such a suggestion implies that Bronze's LGBT identity should be hushed up, which I think gives a completely wrong message of intolerance. Bronze is an idol for many young girls and women who aspire to be footballers or like football; I think that to record how she is comfortable with her LGBT identity would sent a positive and powerful message to these individuals that being LGBT is okay, and it will encourage young girls to be open and comfortable with their identity. Hiding facts about Bronze in this area will do the opposite.
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sources, or because the opinion of the writer has appeared to have been used to make points (which in truth is sometimes difficult to determine). In reality, such rules do not exist. It is my belief that as long as a news source is considered to be a reputable non-tabloid trustworthy source, it may be used in references for a biography of a living person.
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In sports bios, some editors have taken it upon themselves to change "British" to whichever home nation a person competes for, even when the person is more notable for representing the UK (e.g. at athletics world championships) or Team GB at the
Olympics (Bronze, of course, has done the latter, too).
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representing
Portugal and the possibility for confusion (does nobody read to the end of the sentence?). But, since stating the nationality in this case is frankly unnecessary due to, as said, that first sentence already having "England" in it, the route of least objection was not to mention it at all.
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lesbian or bisexual, pointing to the fact that Bronze is already public with her identity. Therefore, I believe that it is not an invasion of privacy to add this information as the fact is already in the public discourse. I therefore think it is in the public interest to document the information that
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is a non-tabloid news
American news cooperation, and its articles are accepted by Knowledge as reputable sources. The article in question states "The women's game, however, has many openly lesbian or bisexual players, both on a professional and grassroots levels – from Karen Bardsley to Lucy Bronze".
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Possibly
Olympique Lyonnais at first usage and anywhere it needs reintroducing (note that it was from Olympique Lyonnais to Lyon in the honours section very recently, which may warrant reversion), but Lyon generally. This would be in line with articles about football across Knowledge that may use a
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I don't know if you've looked through the edit history, but to catch you up: the lead originally said "English"; some users then added "and
Portuguese". I didn't know this, looked for those sources, and slimlined this to "British-Portuguese". This was met with objection, seemingly due to Bronze not
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It is true that including nationality is standard, though it is not necessary. I assume you are aware that Bronze's nationality is not
English. It is British-Portuguese, a fact she has frequently (and recently) made abundantly clear; in finding a source for this, I was led to a TikTok where she has
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is necessary before any claim can be made that she is LGBT. If she has just been quietly but knowingly been living as openly part of the LGBT community and that is a known fact (as I believe this article shows), then that is quite adequate. Individuals do not need to make a public statement to make
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I can understand the need for this derivative distinction when it is, say, rugby union, as the home nations frequently compete against each other. Otherwise, it is strange but tolerable, as it isn't totally wrong to describe a
British person born in England/Wales/Scotland as English/Welsh/Scottish.
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sources. So far you have the New
Statesman, but the way it’s phrased is not as clear as I’d like if we’re going to make a definitive statement about someone’s sexuality, particularly if that person hasn’t made it clear themselves. (The obsession with tabloid-type sources about sexuality, which
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However, when it is a person of additional non-British nationality (or non-British but eligible to represent), like Bronze, it is not just a strange derivative nationality, it is a total factual inaccuracy - and there is certainly nothing in any MOS that encourages that, rather, the opposite.
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article should not be allowed as it "does not give any evidence or additional sources and could have been opinion of the writer". I do not share this view. Using this logic, many newspaper articles should not be allowed as sources on
Knowledge merely because they do not have a bibliography of
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There has been a suggestion that what I am attempting to add is disrespectful since it 'outs' Lucy Bronze, and as such is disrespectful to people in the LGBT community. I have no intention of being disrespectful nor of outing her. It is my solemn belief that this source already shows she is
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personal information was being handled in such a lackadaisical manner and offhand manner). BLP is one of our strongest policies - and with damned good reason: it affects real people in a very real way. Why the need to have their sexuality in the article in the first place? -
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In summary, there is a considerable amount of debate and disagreement in this area, but I strongly believe that the addition of this small, 8-word comment is necessary in this biography. I am happy to discuss this with other users to come to an agreement on this matter.
2157:, another England international women's footballer. Le Tissier is not from England or Britain at all (Guernsey doesn't seem to have a women's football team) and so the lead doesn't include nationality (this is where I took the "compromise" idea of non-inclusion from).
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that she believes Bronze is not openly a member of the LGBT community and as such adding this information is an invasion of privacy. However, I respectfully disagree, since the trustworthy source provided clearly states that Karen
Bardsley and Lucy Bronze are
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formal name occasionally but use the common name most often - sometimes a hard rule may not be wise, with whichever name suits each instance best used. Or even with Manchester City in this article itself being shortened.
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In the lead, infobox and honours section the club is referred to as Lyon but in the club career and career statistics section the club is referred to as Olympique Lyonnais. Which name should be used? (
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has failed to provide a more trustworthy, recent source which discredits the information I am attempting to add, appearing to be using her own opinion to disregard the truthfulness of the information.
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magazine - a lesbian magazine- also documents Bronze being a lesbian and states she is a lesbian inspiration and its 'person of the month' in its 15 August 2019 issue. She is also referred to in this
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comfortable and open with her identity. I do not think it is necessary nor proper for Bronze to have to, for example, 'come out' in a public interview or to the media directly, which
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Bronze is notably as an England International footballer, and including nationality is standard here. Multiple editors have tried adding, but are reverted.
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Spike, I already explained several things that mean adding "English", specifically, is unnecessary (as well as plain wrong). But let me reiterate:
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Repeatedly adding it back "because leads usually have a nationality" isn't going to fly. As a pseudo-comparative, see the article for
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source, with the New Statesman source to support this, as references? I'd like to reach a negotiated consensus on this matter.
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community, but she herself has never confirmed nor denied this"? Or how about "it is believed that Bronze is a member of the
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https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/sport/2019/06/success-women-s-world-cup-means-i-can-finally-fancy-top-flight-footballer
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even (jokingly?) indicated that she doesn't like being described as "English". In any case, "English" is not a possible
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professional footballer who plays as a right-back for Barcelona and the England national team
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Context (location, nationality, etc.) for the activities that made the person notable.
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Okay, fair enough. Could we not then rephrase the statement so as to say "it has been
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I have attempted to add a small line of text stating "Bronze is a member of the
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2133:, you haven't even read to the end of the sentence. "England" is already there.
1605:
The article has the advantage of being published quite recently, in June 2019.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20170211080549/https://www.mancity.com/lucy-bronze
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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community, but she has never confirmed nor denied this"?. Then use the
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This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
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says to include details that give context to the subject's notability:
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community". This is cited by what I believe to be a reputable source,
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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High-importance soccer in the United States and Canada articles
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source. It is a biography of fellow teammate Karen Bardsley on
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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contributor may be personally or professionally connected
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Bronze is notable, and I quote your message right here,
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http://www.thepfa.com/thepfa/pfaawards/lucy-bronze-wpoty
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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is of questionable reliability, and trying to base a
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A fact from this article was featured on Knowledge's
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1135:section on
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2273:Categories
2127:notability
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1569:Report bug
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605:discussion
2212:Fran Bosh
2092:Spike 'em
1710:article.
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161:Biography
101:Biography
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1777:reported
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1754:reliable
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1558:Cheers.—
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1105:contribs
314:Football
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2141:at all.
2116:English
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1678:WP:BLP
1648:argues
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