2792:- However, modern research substantiates the effectiveness of Acupuncture. Studies using functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI) have shown that acupuncture elicits changes in the brain that correlate with neurological effects. As confirmed by the world-renowned Cleveland Clinic, “Acupuncture affects the limbic and para-limbic networks in the brain and has a deep hemodynamic response, which is influenced by the psychophysical response. Acupuncture also stimulates the nervous system and improves conduction and communication between nerves. This improved functioning of the nervous system stimulates neurotransmitter actions and the release of the body’s natural endorphins and other opioids. For example, serotonin may be released following acupuncture, therefore helping patients feel more relaxed and sustain a sense of well-being that lasts for hours thereafter, if not longer. Research has also shown acupuncture’s ability in relieving myofascial pain by releasing muscular trigger points with ensuing concomitant anti-inflammatory effects.” Acupuncture is believed to have originated around 100 BC in China, around the time The Inner Classic of Huang Di (Huangdi Neijing) was published, though some experts suggest it could have been practiced earlier. Over time, conflicting claims and belief systems emerged about the effect of lunar, celestial and earthly cycles, yin and yang energies, and a body's "rhythm" on the effectiveness of treatment. Acupuncture fluctuated in popularity in China due to changes in the country's political leadership and the preferential use of rationalism or scientific medicine. Acupuncture spread first to Korea in the 6th century AD, then to Japan through medical missionaries, and then to Europe, beginning with France. In the 20th century, as it spread to the United States and Western countries, spiritual elements of acupuncture that conflicted with scientific knowledge were sometimes abandoned in favor of simply tapping needles into acupuncture points.
2817:
Anesthesiologists states it may be considered in the treatment of nonspecific, noninflammatory low back pain only in conjunction with conventional therapy. Practitioners who practice
Acupuncture are trained and take didactical coursework and clinical practice in their education; and, pass the National Certification Commission for Acupuncture and Oriental Medicine (NCCAOM) board exams, or a state-specific licensing exam in California. The Acupuncture training program includes techniques such as cupping, gua sha tui na, moxibustion, herbal medicine, lifestyle and nutrition based on Traditional Medicine principles. There is current research supporting that acupuncture has efficacy with pain management being the most well-known application. Conceptually, it is believed to stimulate the body's meridians, or energy-carrying channels, in an attempt to correct imbalances and to restore health. These benefits are thought to be derived from the proximity of acupoints with nerves through intracellular calcium ions. This lesson outlines a brief history of acupuncture and how it may be used to treat various types of physical and emotional pain and specific conditions, including overactive bladder and psoriasis. Acupuncture has been demonstrated to enhance endogenous opiates, such as dynorphin, endorphin, encephalin, and release corticosteroids, relieving pain and enhancing the healing process. Of particular note is that Acupuncture is now incorporated by highly-acclaimed Western Medicine providers as part of a treatment plan for numerous conditions. The world-renowned Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center endorses the newly updated Society of Integrative Oncology’s recommendations for acupuncture for breast cancer patients with joint pain. . Medical institutions such as the Mayo Clinic, National Cancer Institute, City of Hope, and Cleveland Clinic also integrate Acupuncture into their patients care programs.
2611:
next to 'Folk' Remedies as it shares
Identical Single herb prescriptions with Many other Nationalities such as Many Native American tribal medicine maker. It Differs from Witch Doctor in that it is Closer to the History of Veterinary Medicine as it uses Snake anti-venums for problems with livestock being bitten. The concept of Low-Class cannot be confused with Folk or Traditional as it lends 'Poverty' the word to 'Nativity' the way of life. Because Emporer and Royal medicine also shares Identicality with Royal British Culinary arts. It also can Never be removed from Western civilization as High societied History of Tea. Provider Modernly make tea pills. The History of Medicine and Natural healing amongst Nations has sometimes nothing to do with class, even more interesting is the Shells themselves were once used in Africa As the Coin of choice, currancy. It was also golden medicine, golden shells. These are still Modernly Integrated. Golden Cabinet is the name of a text book.
2780:– . Acupuncture is generally safe when done by appropriately trained practitioners using clean needle technique and single-use needles. When properly delivered, it has a low rate of mostly minor adverse effects. When accidents and infections do occur, they are associated with neglect on the part of the practitioner, particularly in the application of sterile techniques. A review conducted in 2013 stated that reports of infection transmission increased significantly in the preceding decade. The most frequently reported adverse events were pneumothorax and infections. Since serious adverse events continue to be reported, it is recommended that acupuncturists be trained sufficiently to reduce the risk.
2768:
standardized form called eight principles TCM and the second being an older system that is based on the ancient Daoist wuxing, better known as the five elements or phases in the West. Acupuncture is most often used to attempt pain relief, though acupuncturists say that it can also be used for a wide range of other conditions. Acupuncture is generally used only in combination with other forms of treatment. The global acupuncture market was worth US$ 24.55 billion in 2017. The market was led by Europe with a 32.7% share, followed by Asia-Pacific with a 29.4% share and the
Americas with a 25.3% share. It was estimated in 2021 that the industry would reach a market size of US$ 55 billion by 2023.
1753:) who reverted to explain their objections to the added material. I would suggest that instead of using studies showing effectiveness on specific conditions to claim that the technique is effective in generally, citations to such studies should only be used to support claims for the specific conditions under study. Many drugs and treatments are effective for a narrow set of diseases despite being studied in a wide range. It also helps the article be more neutral if instead of arguing over whether acupuncture is good or bad overall, it simply gives specific facts and lets readers draw their own conclusions.
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material on the meta-analyses showing some partially positive effects, my reasoning was that I would preserve a "both sides of the issue" version of the page, and see what other editors thought. But
Valjean makes a point I can agree with: some of those analyses were from a pretty long time ago, so the sources already on the page (concluding that acupuncture "is not an effective method of healthcare") are more current, and therefore should be given greater
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2308:, in a relatively minor journal, says: "More studies with rigorous designs and larger sample size are warranted to verify the efficacy and safety of acupuncture for insomnia...". When I changed the wording on the page from "acupuncture has a significant impact" to "acupuncture has a measurable but modest impact... , albeit not superior to other methods of treatment", I was following the sources, and I think it was actually a rather gentle change.
2810:[Clinical practice Acupuncture is a form of alternative medicine. It is used most commonly for pain relief, though it is also used to treat a wide range of conditions. Acupuncture is generally only used in combination with other forms of treatment. For example, the American Society of Anesthesiologists states it may be considered in the treatment of nonspecific, noninflammatory low back pain only in conjunction with conventional therapy. ] to
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sentence says. It's awfully tricky to say, in
Knowledge's voice, that a placebo effect is "an effective method of healthcare". Perhaps there could be a better word than "effective". But I think that just saying that it's effective in the way that placebos are effective, without qualifying such a statement further, is an inaccurate presentation of the source material, and there's a limit to how much nuance can fit into the lead. --
1813:, the above comments are why I tagged the intro as having a contradiction; the Efficacy section seems to say there has been benefit shown for some conditions, though presumably for reasons other than manipulating qi. It could be clarified if this is simply a strong placebo effect, if there may be some physical effects, or if this is unknown or disputed. But if there's an no-efficacy exception, it should be noted in the intro. --
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2332:. For the more recent ones, I also have reservations about giving them much weight, because they appear to be outliers relative to the meta-analyses that were already cited. Another point that supports the revert is that the lead section is supposed to summarize what is in the rest of the page. It shouldn't contain material just put there to argue a
2299:, actually says: "For patients with acute low back pain, data are sparse and inconclusive. Data are also insufficient for drawing conclusions about acupuncture's short-term effectiveness compared with most other therapies... No evidence suggests that acupuncture is more effective than other active therapies." The second,
2302:, says: "Significant differences between true and sham acupuncture indicate that acupuncture is more than a placebo. However, these differences are relatively modest, suggesting that factors in addition to the specific effects of needling are important contributors to the therapeutic effects of acupuncture." The third,
2751:
I would like to make some suggestions to the acupuncture page. I do understand it is a contentious topic but believe some added edits and updated references would add better context as the WHO among others is expanding the use of traditonal medicine practices and has added a specific chapter in ICD11
2377:
As acupuncture was developed 3000 years ago, it is pre-scientific, not pseudoscientific. In the past 20+ years, the amount of acupuncture research has outpaced biomedical research. As this body of scientific knowledge grows, we are beginning to translate a traditional medicine into modern biomedical
1848:
I may be wrong, but if, as
Tryptofish says, we're talking about a placebo effect, then it's better not to note what may seem like a contradiction. It would be better to reword the "troublesome" content in the Efficacy section to make that plain. Does that make sense to you? As I said, I may be wrong,
1756:
Trying to put details into the intro about insurance coverage that are not mentioned in the body of the article is also a problem. This information would be better added to the
Adoption section if it's added anywhere, though the phrasing made it sound like the author was trying to promote acupuncture
2610:
Acupuncture
According to the History of Medicine and the Huang Di Nei Jing, Shang Han Lun, Wen Bing was only practiced on the Royals and Emporers. The Name of the first text book is the Yellow Emporer's Internal Cannon. It was never for "Lower-Class." It is modernly labeled as 'Traditional' and sits
2291:
And, perhaps most importantly, I changed the wording about the studies that had been presented as supporting the claim that acupuncture "has significant impact on pain relief and treating other disorders", and were used to justify saying that the evidence in favor of acupuncture was "not unanimous".
2080:
accurate to say that acupuncture is never "effective" (in the sense that placebos sometimes really do work). I've come up with this idea: change "which suggests that it is not an effective method of healthcare" to "which suggests that it is not a reliable method of healthcare", and leave the rest as
2002:
Is there a source saying that's what has happened in this case? When that happens, we would also expect those studies fail to be replicated, right? Has that happened for those conditions? If random chance is the accepted explanation for positive results, then the
Efficacy and Adoption sections would
1987:
as a criterion, one will get 5% positive results in the absence of a real effect. That is the definition of statistical significance. Thus, if there is no real effect, it is to be expected that "a small number of conditions" have positive results. Everybody who is familiar with how those things work
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To bring this back on point, the premise of the question (that if something is subject to the scientific method, it is not pseudoscience) is fallacious. Many/most pseudosciences are subject to scientific research - there has been an an entire journal dedicated to homeopathy for example. More simply,
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reduce pain perception for some people has been shown scientifically, and as the NCCIH and
Knowledge articles explain, that's a placebo effect. Especially for people with incurable chronic pain, understanding placebo effects can help design useful placebo-based treatments. (NCCIH also mentions there
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But we must be careful not assume a partial scientific exploration of a full system of medicine is complete - this an ongoing and developing project on a global scale. Acupuncture is the most widely practice traditional medicine in the world and is incorporated into the new ICD11 codes put out the
1603:
To put it otherwise, backwardness and non-revolution were grave political felonies. They didn't think that backwardness means being a bit dumb, so one needs more help from functionaries. It was a brutal police state, and acupuncture anesthesia was its sacrosanct dogma. Compulsory state ideology led
1561:
During the period of "Cultural Revolution," acupuncture anesthesia served politically as a standard to judge progress or backwardness, revolution or non-revolution. Physicians and patients were under the pressure of the political requirements of that time. They had no choice but to have exceptional
1379:
Okay: an eye surgeon was so foolish as to report to his superiors that anesthesia through acupuncture does not work; his report got labeled with "three hats" and he was subjected to "criticism of the masses". People, due to pain, were shouting political slogans during surgery. Because they were not
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subsidy was better sourced and more relevant than the rest. I could certainly make the case for only including that, although probably not in the lead section. (Some of the sources for other countries, I wasn't sure if they were government sites, or sites from individual practitioners.) As for the
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I know, but the question is not how you or I would describe the situation, but precisely how it should be described in a neutral article based on reliable sources. You keep introducing new words into the conversation which are great for expressing an opinion in a colorful way, but don't follow the
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That wasn't a direct quote, but I managed to get a copy of the page upon reloading. It doesn't say anything about Mao himself or labor camps or a law making empirical investigation a crime, but what it does say is interesting enough to add to the article. Any idea what "criticism of the masses" is
1950:
The second source is an analysis, as opposed to an original study, but I think it's an RS for mainstream scientific opinion. My reading of the first source is that the quotes you take from it sound, in isolation, as more positive than they do in context. As for "is a method of health care no more
1892:
As I write this, I have a vague feeling that this exact language has been discussed on this talk page in the past. At any rate, it's worth looking at the two sources that are cited at the end of the sentence in the lead section. They really do say things that are accurately summarized by what the
1965:
Well, since neither of us like that phrase, maybe we should just leave it out. How about: "Systematic reviews of acupuncture conclude there is no good evidence of benefit beyond placebo, except for a small number of conditions. Evidence of benefit beyond sham acupuncture for those conditions is
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At the second RS mentioned by me: acceptance of anesthesia through acupuncture was one of the standards used to judge if someone was for Mao's revolution or against it. Of course, it does not say they were sentenced to labor camps, but you just have to know what happened to people deemed to be
1285:
Correctly said, "Traditional acupuncture theories were prescientific until roughly 100 years ago. Now they are pseudoscience. The theories and practices of TCM are based on ideas which pass nowadays for Ancient superstitions. TCM is a hoax produced by Chairman Mao so that he didn't have to buy
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There is a range of acupuncture technological variants that originated in different philosophies, and techniques vary depending on the country in which it is performed. However, it can be divided into two main foundational philosophical applications and approaches; the first being the modern
2124:
If the German trials do not represent the current scientific consensus, then the Adoption section should make that clear. There is no way for non-experts to know that from the way it's currently written. So exactly how do we know that these trials are now considered to have reached incorrect
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should be followed. I do think it's actually interesting to know where it's covered and most importantly on what grounds. Whether the grounds are "studies found effectiveness for certain conditions" or "people pay for the service even where it's not effective, and so insurance companies sell
1177:
Now I see that you and a few other editors seem to think that this is not a reliable source. What is the basis for that. I understand that being a government agency doesn't automatically make a source reliable but I was under the impression that the NIH is considered to be a reliable source.
1765:
Outside of the recent additions, I'd like to note for interested editors that the phrase in the intro "generally provide no good evidence of benefit" seems to contradict the Efficacy section, where two indications are given as an exception. It seems the intro should be re-worded to note the
2099:
Don't like that, as it implies it sometimes works, and for certain conditions (progressive diseases e.g.) it certainly doesn't. I think something not being better than placebo is (in a lay context) synonymous with being ineffective, and in any case the article does not (currently) say that
1928:
There are some studies picking up real benefits over placebo on a small number of conditions caused by other physical mechanisms related to jamming needles into tissue, and people rightly skeptical of acupuncture's traditional claims are tossing out that evidence as bunk in an overly hasty
2075:
I basically agree with BC and HG about this issue. I've been thinking hard about finding a way to improve upon the current wording, and I'm not comfortable with the changes proposed so far. I'm really OK with the wording as it is now, although I can see Beland's argument that it's not
2014:(hello there!) removed it with the edit summary "don't want this very dated". If the results of these trials have been disproven by later studies, that should be noted in the Adoption section. (This material can't be removed because it's part of the history of adoption in Germany.) --
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benefit, which in this case matters. Not sure the phrase "not an effective method of healthcare" would be needed, and might be problematic given it's a topic of current controversy whether or not strong placebos are a useful and effective technique in medicine, especially for pain. --
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Clinical Practice Acupuncture is a form of alternative medicine. It is used most commonly for pain relief, though it is also used to treat a wide range of conditions. Acupuncture is generally only used in combination with other forms of treatment. For example, the American Society of
1907:
We could just say "is a method of health care no more effective than placebo", if that was supported by sources. I checked the first RS listed as a citation for that claim, which seems to partially contradict that summary. It includes studies rated as high certainty that show:
2280:, actually says: "Traditional Chinese acupuncture is not regulated in New Zealand. Be careful when reading acupuncture websites and advertising... It's not recommended that you have acupuncture as a sole treatment for your health problem." Taking a source that prominently says
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Don't think there's a contradiction; historically some trials convinced Germany (a historically woo-friendly nation, particularly back then) to change some insurance rules. Trials don't represent settled science and even then they were criticised for being less then solid.
2319:
In context, I think the edits I made were indeed rather gentle, and I was motivated by an intention to try and preserve what I could from what Safetystuff had done. Valjean subsequently reverted all of it – and, as I said, that's OK with me. Looking at the edit summary,
1300:
The article currently says Mao claimed the practice was based on scientific principles. It does not mention anything about motivation or labor camps. Can you point us to reliable sources that support those claims? I'm not sure acupuncture meets the definition given in
1394:. CCP ideologues decided how the scientific consensus should be, real scientists had no say in this matter. Empirically investigating the effectiveness of acupuncture was a crime against the state (if the scientists dared to express politically taboo conclusions).
1138:.) which states that acupuncture is to some degree supported by scientific research, so it surprises me that this Knowledge article starts off saying that "acupuncture is a pseudoscience" when (apparently) it does have some support from a reputable health agency.
2274:. The text that I had to correct said that the Australian government subsidizes acupuncture costs. But the source actually says coverage is mainly provided by some private insurance policies (or if the acupuncturist "is also a general practitioner").
2100:
acupuncture is never effective, rather that "The conclusions of trials and systematic reviews of acupuncture generally provide no good evidence of benefit, which suggests that it is not an effective method of healthcare", which is more nuanced.
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of why acupuncture works is certainly pseudoscience; there is plenty of evidence that there is no qi flowing through the human body, and that it is not necessary to poke needles into specific body points to access qi. The fact that acupuncture
1722:
I am an expert in meta analysis so I am happy to provide clarification and guidance on the parts you remove. Happy to provide more details on the scientific findings reported in the papers you removed and the effect sizes provided in them.
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expensive medicines from foreign countries, and trick his totalitarian subjects into a false sense of getting medically treated. And he sent to the labor camp anyone who declared that anesthesia by acupuncture does not work."
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mentioned above. Who was targeted by it? Scientists, MDs, and even patients. Practically anyone who disbelieved it was a target for being repressed. Mao was in some respects outstandingly stupid, sadistic, or delusional.
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We know what recent reliable sources say, as opposed to very old unreliable ones, and for Knowledge that's what matters. As I say, I don't see a particular problem with the Adoption section but if you want to clarify,
1253:"may" be direct effects on connective tissue; I'm not familiar with the evidence for or against that, but it's physically plausible that disturbing tissue stimulates it in some way, and unrelated to the qi theory.) --
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I also see that the Adoption section says German studies showed efficacy for certain uses. It seems like these should be mentioned in the Efficacy section, and also taken into account in the intro in the same way. --
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Serious and respected encyclopedias and reference works are generally expected to provide overviews of scientific topics that are in line with respected scientific thought. Knowledge aspires to be such a respected
2003:
need to be changed to note this. The Adoption section says "the German acupuncture trials supported its efficacy for certain uses" and the Efficacy section says it is beneficial for shoulder pain and fibromyalgia.
2255:. Some of what I changed was simply a matter of good writing (fixing "subsidized subsidized", as an obvious example). That's also what I did in my subsequent edit, whose edit summary should be self-explanatory:
1267:
Yes, I agree. I think a fair statement would be: Traditional acupuncture theories are prescienctific pseudoscience. The theories and practices of TCM are based on naturalist theories rather than on scientific
2732:" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{
2591:" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{
457:, a fundamental policy, requires fair representation of significant alternatives to scientific orthodoxy. Significant alternatives, in this case, refers to legitimate scientific disagreement, as opposed to
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We should stick to the best, newest metareviews. Although Ernst is reliable, one meta-review was published 2005. Too old. Just as example for cherry-picking in that case. PMID 36416820 shows the way.
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While it seems clear the traditional qi theory has been disproven and there is no benefit over placebo for the vast majority of claimed conditions, it's unclear to me which of these is happening:
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for Knowledge, it's required to follow the sources which consider the question of whether acupuncture is a pseudoscience or not. By them, it is; and we are required by policy to reflect that.
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I don't doubt that appropriate reliable sources describe it as a pseudoscience, it just seems that (at least one) (seemingly) appropriate reliable source describes it as not a pseudoscience.
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1917:“ better effects of electroacupuncture plus western conventional treatments for improving National Institutes of Health Stroke Scale.” though I'm not sure what the comparitor was there.
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My reading of the current version of the Efficacy section is that it says that everything can be accounted for by the placebo effect. In that case, I'm not seeing a contradiction. --
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I'm OK with the more sweeping revert that Valjean made, although I would also have been OK with leaving the version reverted to by McSly, which had the corrections I tried to make.
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The reported benefits over placebo for a small number of conditions are artifacts of the research methods, despite some of the studies being rated as high-quality evidence. --
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Acupuncture got banned in China as quackery, but then Mao revived it because he lacked money for real anesthetics. It is basically a hoax perpetrated for political reasons.
1911:“Verum acupuncture is more effective than sham acupuncture for pain relief, improving sleep quality, and improving general status in fibromyalgia syndrome posttreatment.”
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exceptions or the body should be re-worded to bring the statements into alignment (e.g. these were not meta-studies, they were poor quality, or whatever the case may be).
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represent the current state of knowledge. We should update that section so readers aren't mislead by it, and so it doesn't appear to contradict the Efficacy section. --
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There's a lot to respond to here. First, as already noted, it wasn't Beland who did the revert, but I appreciate what Beland has said (as well as what Julius S. said).
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2114:"Reliable" doesn't make sense; FDA-approved drugs aren't completely reliable either. And it doesn't distinguish between a direct effect and a placebo effect.
497:, but which are generally considered pseudoscience by the scientific community may properly contain that information and may be categorized as pseudoscience.
2786:– and many modern practitioners no longer support the existence of life force energy (qi) or meridians, which was a major part of early belief systems.]
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on the grounds that it must be good if it's covered by insurance. Wording should be more neutral and also rules for English spelling and punctuation, and
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518:: Alternative theoretical formulations which have a following within the scientific community are not pseudoscience, but part of the scientific process.
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I changed the wording about New Zealand. The text that I had to correct said simply that NZ subsidizes acupuncture. And yet one of the cited sources,
1462:. Is there a realiable source which defines "criticism of the masses"? Presumably there is an underlying Chinese phrase which is being translated. --
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If you want to mention labor camps in the article, then we need a reliable source that makes that connection with acupuncture specifically, to avoid
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https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/acupuncture-what-you-need-to-know#:~:text=Acupuncture%20is%20a%20technique%20in,for%20at%20least%202%2C500%20years
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2264:. The source doesn't say that at all (as a self-described "expert" should have been able to readily see). It's a summary of primary research (not
2258:. But there were also much more substantive things that I needed to fix, where the content added completely misrepresented what the sources said:
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The current state of knowledge is given in the efficacy section. This cannot be undercut with old unreliable sources, such as exist for GERAC.
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and won't object if my edit is reversed. I just want to draw attention to possible issues with that content. I believe it can be improved. --
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510:, but which some critics allege to be pseudoscience, may contain information to that effect, but generally should not be so characterized.
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The categorization of acupuncture as pseudoscience and the fact that it has been studied scientifically can both be true. The ancient
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Also, there is no "conflicting evidence", there is just no proof that acupuncture is better than placebo. Despite tons of studies. --
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DEscribing the NCCIH as a reputable health agency is something of a stretch. I mean, it has a reputation, but it isn't a good one...
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of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change
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of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change
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The article describes it as pseudoscience because appropriate reliable sources describe it as pseudoscience. And that's by the
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1444:"Criticism of the masses" meant public humiliation (show trial), possibly accompanied by some torture, and losing one's job.
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https://www.kpwashingtonresearch.org/live-healthy/all-articles/live-healthy-2014/how-effective-acupuncture-chronic-back-pain
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Sure, then it would make sense to reword the intro so it says there's no benefit compared to placebo. That's different than
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to mass madness, especially in the hands of such a tyrant. It was like the Inquisition, with Maoism instead of Christianity.
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effective than placebo", that strikes me as a very odd thing to say, roughly like a diet of food that isn't nutritious. --
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2758:- the theories and practices of TCM are not based on scientific knowledge, and it has been characterized as quackery.]
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The WHO and the NIH in the United States support the use of acupuncture and it is covered by insurance in all 50 states.
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Nope, NCCIH is a pro-quackery wing of the US government, and it is technically independent from being controlled by NIH.
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Not unanimous makes it sound like there is just a little bit of evidence against acupuncture; the source material says
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will know that, but for an average reader, the phrase "except for a small number of conditions" will be misleading. --
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So, yes, "acupuncture does not work" was a taboo enforced through political policing and reeducation camp sentences.
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Ah, great. I'm afraid I'm not getting access to page 364; could you give a quote that supports the above claims? --
1271:= Kaptchuk, T. J. (2002). Acupuncture: theory, efficacy, and practice. Annals of internal medicine, 136(5), 374-383
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Are you interpreting reference to "non-revolution" to imply the labelling of people as "counter-revolutionary"? --
1387:. It says if one did not accept that anesthesia through acupuncture works, they were deemed counterrevolutionaries.
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Can you please tell us one by one what was wrong with the references provided supporting the text you removed?
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courage in order to carry out or undergo surgery, especially as the patients who felt pain could not cry out.
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From the context is quite clear that any dissent from acupuncture anesthesia was politically repressed.
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disputed, and physical mechanisms that would explain any direct effects have not been confirmed." --
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2357:: A subsequent edit changed the header for this talk section from "Beland reverse" to "Reverse". --
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2268:-compliant), that isn't about how costs are paid for. That should never have been put on the page.
1334:. Comparative Studies of Health Systems and Medical Care. University of California Press. p. 364.
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Medicare covers acupuncture for low back pain due to the strong scientific evidence of efficacy:
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https://holistic-health.org.uk/world-health-organisation-recommends-acupuncture-100-conditions/
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Hi, I personally don't know much about this topic, but I recently read an article by the NIH (
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The Chinese consensus about acupuncture anesthesia was championed by yesmen and sycophants.
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I removed the claim that Brazil subsidizes the costs of acupuncture, cited to this source:
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The second source is not peer-reviewed, and is mostly just commentary on the first source.
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This source describes that "criticism by the masses" entailed violence, sometimes lethal:
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Acupuncturists are also a valid profession as defined by the Bureau of Labor Statistics.
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https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/neuroscience/articles/10.3389/fnins.2021.730322/full
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1914:“Acupuncture was superior to sham acupuncture in terms of pain relief.” for shoulder pain
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expensive insurance that includes the service" that is interesting and important to know.
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2736:}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a
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I fully agree with the revert that McSly made. It was reverting blatant POV-pushing.
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Happy to do so, but I need a pointer to the reliable sources you're looking at. --
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So, the Chinese medical consensus wasn't based upon empirical evidence, but upon
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Theories which, while purporting to be scientific, are obviously bogus, such as
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Also, please keep in mind that metareviews from China are not trustworthy (see
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Also, when Safetystuff partially reverted where I said "and often negative",
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Morals: acupuncture anesthesia simply means that Mao was a sadistic tyrant.
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at making people feel better. Would that one-word change have consensus? --
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https://www.evidencebasedacupuncture.org/acupuncture-scientific-evidence/
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to the Efficacy section, and tagged the contradiction with the intro. --
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The "except for a small number of conditions" thing does not sound good.
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ruled on guidelines for the presentation of topics as pseudoscience in
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is. Placebos can sometimes make people feel better, but they aren't
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https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/acupuncture-what-you-need-to-know
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We'll just say they were labeled counterrevolutionaries, which is
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Do not get bogged down in endless debates that don't lead anywhere
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921:
833:. Please visit the project page for details or ask questions at
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Knowledge level-4 vital articles in Biology and health sciences
2006:
I noted the 2007 German trials in the Efficacy section, but in
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2284:, and using it to say simply that NZ pays for acupuncture, is
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825:, which recommends that medicine-related articles follow the
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https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1136/acupmed-2017-011445
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I don't see the word "counterrevolutionary" in Unschuld. --
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It's from NCCIH, so no fuzz about it, sole mumbo jumbo. --
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https://www.who.int/publications/i/item/978-92-4-001688-0
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identified sources, and can't be used in the article. --
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procedure applies to this page. This page is related to
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Knowledge vital articles in Biology and health sciences
2288:, and serious misrepresentation of the source material.
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I moved a statement about Australia, sourced to this:
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Paquet, Philippe; Rose, Julie; Barnes, Julian (2017).
1157:, by the way, which is not quite the same as the NIH.
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B-Class vital articles in Biology and health sciences
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verbatim from copyrighted sources. It can't be used.
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of disbelievers in acupuncture anesthesia is clearly
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A History of Medicine: Primitive and ancient medicine
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community discussion on COI for alt-med practitioners
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Theories which have a substantial following, such as
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As for efficacy. The revert is absolutely justified.
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Arbitration Ruling on the Treatment of Pseudoscience
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2042:Sure, but that implies the Adoption section does
1543:. A History of Medicine. Horatius Press. p. 178.
2901:B-Class China-related articles of Top-importance
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2752:for Traditional Medicine Acupuncture titled TM1
2629:Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2024
2488:Semi-protected edit request on 24 September 2024
1484:
1091:, a project which is currently considered to be
442:Knowledge:Requests for arbitration/Pseudoscience
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
829:and that biomedical information in any article
590:This article or its talk page has experienced
2424:https://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291291.htm
827:Manual of Style for medicine-related articles
197:
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2252:Here's a combined diff of the edits I made:
1411:Mind you that Mao died half a century ago.
450:Neutral point of view as applied to science
1536:
1491:. Schwartz Books Pty. Limited. p. fn. 51.
1032:Knowledge:WikiProject Alternative medicine
2378:scientific language a piece at a time.
1035:Template:WikiProject Alternative medicine
493:Theories which have a following, such as
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627:
541:Individuals with a conflict of interest
2946:Knowledge semi-protected edit requests
2853:
2323:, I agree that the material about the
1305:, and that term sounds pejorative. --
557:request corrections or suggest content
404:complementary and alternative medicine
2941:B-Class Alternative medicine articles
2896:Top-importance China-related articles
1331:Medicine in China: A History of Ideas
444:. The final decision was as follows:
183:
2690:This template must be followed by a
2549:This template must be followed by a
1488:Simon Leys: Navigator between Worlds
1087:This article is within the scope of
1012:This article is within the scope of
914:This article is within the scope of
819:This article is within the scope of
714:This article is within the scope of
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515:Alternative theoretical formulations
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836:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Medicine
23:for discussing improvements to the
13:
2931:Top-importance Skepticism articles
2702:and will be rejected; the request
2561:and will be rejected; the request
2385:World Health Organization (WHO).
563:if the issue is urgent. See also
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489:Generally considered pseudoscience
421:
14:
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2692:complete and specific description
2551:complete and specific description
2916:Mid-importance medicine articles
2866:Knowledge level-4 vital articles
2832:This is a hodgepodge of content
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1015:WikiProject Alternative medicine
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946:Knowledge:WikiProject Skepticism
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831:use high-quality medical sources
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547:the subject of the article, are
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45:Click here to start a new topic.
2936:WikiProject Skepticism articles
1103:Knowledge:WikiProject East Asia
966:This article has been rated as
949:Template:WikiProject Skepticism
865:This article has been rated as
754:This article has been rated as
618:and trolling are never allowed!
455:Knowledge:Neutral point of view
406:, which is a contentious topic.
2921:All WikiProject Medicine pages
2891:B-Class China-related articles
2876:B-Class level-4 vital articles
2846:20:04, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
2827:19:39, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
2706:be of the form "please change
2624:19:30, 24 September 2024 (UTC)
2565:be of the form "please change
2478:00:25, 22 September 2024 (UTC)
2464:23:30, 21 September 2024 (UTC)
1421:10:00, 10 September 2024 (UTC)
1383:And it is largely copy/pasted
1380:allowed to say they feel pain.
1106:Template:WikiProject East Asia
845:Knowledge:WikiProject Medicine
657:It is of interest to multiple
553:Knowledge:Conflict of interest
1:
2721:user. Remember to change the
2580:user. Remember to change the
2454:I'd expect a valid argument.
1171:The NCCIH is part of the NIH.
1038:Alternative medicine articles
1026:and see a list of open tasks.
940:and see a list of open tasks.
848:Template:WikiProject Medicine
728:and see a list of open tasks.
614:, or relevant notice-boards.
551:not to edit the article. See
42:Put new text under old text.
2717:The edit may be made by any
2648:that an edit be made to the
2576:The edit may be made by any
2507:that an edit be made to the
1741:I'll leave it to the folks (
7:
2926:B-Class Skepticism articles
2441:Sounds just like Mao Zedong
1537:Prioreschi, Plinio (1996).
734:Knowledge:WikiProject China
50:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
10:
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2906:WikiProject China articles
2450:22:43, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
2435:22:33, 5 August 2024 (UTC)
2296:. The first cited source,
1328:Unschuld, Paul U. (2010).
972:project's importance scale
871:project's importance scale
760:project's importance scale
737:Template:WikiProject China
543:(COI), particularly those
2911:B-Class medicine articles
2614:It is Never Lower-Class.
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1786:German acupuncture trials
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436:In December of 2006 the
2861:B-Class vital articles
917:WikiProject Skepticism
740:China-related articles
585:Do not feed the trolls
536:
426:
75:avoid personal attacks
1426:supposed to mean? --
1392:argumentum ad baculum
1089:WikiProject East Asia
644:level-4 vital article
535:
476:Obvious pseudoscience
466:Serious encyclopedias
438:Arbitration Committee
425:
354:Auto-archiving period
123:Find medical sources:
100:Neutral point of view
1637:Political repression
1029:Alternative medicine
1020:Alternative medicine
995:Alternative medicine
822:WikiProject Medicine
502:Questionable science
105:No original research
2373:Not a pseudoscience
2314:, I let that stand.
952:Skepticism articles
412:and edit carefully.
408:Please consult the
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1460:original synthesis
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2427:66.235.16.199
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2017:
2013:
2009:
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1983:If one uses
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1726:Many thanks
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1539:
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1487:
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1330:
1303:superstition
1273:Youhanna1111
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545:representing
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19:This is the
2654:Acupuncture
2652:article at
2513:Acupuncture
2511:article at
2146:Bon courage
2120:Bon courage
2102:Bon courage
2063:Bon courage
2030:Bon courage
2012:Bon courage
1990:Hob Gadling
1811:this revert
1728:Safetystuff
1701:Bon courage
31:not a forum
25:Acupuncture
2855:Categories
2723:|answered=
2582:|answered=
2470:tgeorgescu
2359:Tryptofish
2338:Tryptofish
2142:have at it
2087:Tryptofish
1953:Tryptofish
1895:Tryptofish
1829:Tryptofish
1809:Regarding
1751:Tryptofish
1650:tgeorgescu
1609:tgeorgescu
1574:tgeorgescu
1510:tgeorgescu
1446:tgeorgescu
1399:tgeorgescu
1353:tgeorgescu
1288:tgeorgescu
1268:knowledge.
1194:tgeorgescu
943:Skepticism
934:skepticism
894:Skepticism
561:contact us
555:. You may
410:procedures
2808:Change X:
2646:requested
2505:requested
2008:this edit
1326:See e.g.
1221:(blether)
1100:East Asia
1063:East Asia
647:is rated
495:astrology
482:Time Cube
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2784:Change X
2772:Change X
2756:Change X
2266:WP:MEDRS
2083:reliable
1569:, p. 364
1565:Also in
1180:Shaked13
1140:Shaked13
842:Medicine
783:Medicine
592:trolling
209:Archives
178:Springer
143:Cochrane
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2667:history
2526:history
1929:manner.
1862:PING me
1851:Valjean
1805:Valjean
1759:MOS:USA
1743:Valjean
1715:Reverse
1643:in the
1159:Brunton
1094:defunct
1068:defunct
970:on the
922:science
869:on the
758:on the
649:B-class
604:WP:PSCI
358:20 days
2834:copied
2644:It is
2503:It is
2330:weight
2160:Beland
2127:Beland
2048:Beland
2016:Beland
1968:Beland
1934:Beland
1880:Beland
1844:Beland
1815:Beland
1790:Beland
1772:Beland
1749:, and
1624:Beland
1588:Beland
1555:9 July
1524:Beland
1503:9 July
1464:Beland
1428:Beland
1367:Beland
1346:8 July
1322:Beland
1307:Beland
1255:Beland
1245:theory
1216:Summit
655:scale.
166:OpenMD
136:PubMed
2814:to Y:
2802:Add Y
2798:– .
2796:Add Y
2774:– ]
2698:" is
2679:links
2557:" is
2538:links
2078:quite
1747:McSly
1645:WP:RS
1213:Girth
1155:NCCIH
731:China
722:China
678:China
636:This
559:, or
471:work.
214:Index
192:Wiley
84:Seek
2842:talk
2823:talk
2790:to Y
2778:to Y
2764:– .
2762:to Y
2704:must
2673:last
2661:edit
2620:talk
2563:must
2532:last
2520:edit
2474:talk
2460:talk
2445:Moxy
2431:talk
2363:talk
2355:Note
2342:talk
2336:. --
2282:that
2235:talk
2224:that
2220:this
2164:talk
2150:talk
2131:talk
2106:talk
2091:talk
2067:talk
2052:talk
2034:talk
2020:talk
1994:talk
1972:talk
1957:talk
1938:talk
1899:talk
1884:talk
1855:talk
1833:talk
1819:talk
1794:talk
1776:talk
1732:talk
1705:talk
1654:talk
1641:WP:V
1628:talk
1613:talk
1592:talk
1578:talk
1557:2024
1545:ISBN
1528:talk
1514:talk
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1493:ISBN
1478:WP:V
1468:talk
1450:talk
1432:talk
1417:talk
1403:talk
1385:here
1371:talk
1357:talk
1348:2024
1336:ISBN
1311:talk
1292:talk
1277:talk
1259:talk
1250:does
1235:talk
1198:talk
1184:talk
1163:talk
1144:talk
932:and
398:The
185:Trip
159:Gale
151:DOAJ
73:and
2804:–
2734:ESp
2730:yes
2714:".
2710:to
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2448:🍁
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750:Top
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