Knowledge

User:François Robere/sandbox/KL Warschau

Source 📝

132: 141: 153: 45: 57: 66: 470:). Most of the other entries are either apparent - though not always credited - translations of the English, German, or Polish Wikis from some past date; or stubs (which themselves seem to be a copy of a cross-wiki lead) - with relatively few edits following their creation, and about the same "conspiratorial status" as their origin article at their time of creation. The dynamics between the English, German, and Polish Wikis are interesting: 205:. Inmates were mostly Jews from other parts of the Nazi empire - many Greek and Hungarian, along with some Czech, Dutch, and Slovakian - chosen for their unfamiliarity with the Polish language and Polish geography, which would've minimized their chances escape. They were brought to the camp to salvage construction materials from the destroyed 103:. The theory, which gained considerable following in the years since it was published, now serves as the basis for several commemoration sites and memorials; Davies even describes a memorial procession at one of Warsaw's churches, complete with a priest sprinkling holy water and two soldiers. According to Davies, this theory fits within a " 60:
Poster hanging near the tunnel, showing the schematics of the alleged gas chamber: gas was supposedly injected through a concrete vent on the roof of the building, and blown in by giant fans. The fans were only installed in the tunnel during the 1970's; one of the surviving motors is revered as a
599:
within the topic area - dynamics that deter even seasons admins from getting involved - that pushed editors away. But whatever the reason may be, the result is the same: the KL Warschau Extermination Camp conspiracy theory propagated through Knowledge for fifteen years; and if not for chance, it
833:
Biddle, Ian, and Beate Müller. "“… and all of a sudden, in the middle of it, they began singing…”: languages and commemoration in Arnold Schoenberg’s cantata A Survivor from Warsaw (Op. 46)." Edinburgh German Yearbook: New Literary and Linguistic Perspectives on the German Language, National
135:
Church of St Stanisław the Martyr at Józef Bem street, Warsaw. Plaque reads: "In Tribute to the 200,000 Poles Murdered by the German Occupiers in the Death Camp KL Warschau, in the Years 1942-1944.". A tiny plaque bolted to the bottom right reads: "Based on the book by Maria
750: 738: 450:). Back in 2004 this entry listed 40,000 inmates and 200,000 victims; by the time it was removed the number of inmates rose to 400,000, while the number of victims dropped to 20,000–35,000. Both revisions give a wrong operation period. Story was live for 184:
in May 2019 - were even worse: this English Knowledge stated for a fact that the camp had 400,000 inmates, and that its existence was "debated secretly" and hidden by the post-war Communist regime, that wished to inflate the
458:
As of September 2019, the article is present in 12 different Wikipedias, but is notably absent from the Hebrew one, which tends to have good coverage of Holocaust-related subjects (it is mentioned fairly accurately in the
123:"...the more Trzcińska’s claims were challenged, the more determined her supporters became. Marches, demonstrations, public meetings and religious ceremonies were held, bogus maps circulated, false testimonies promoted, 69:
Pedestrian tunnel at alleged site of the giant gas chamber, with graffiti of large fan and commemorative posters. The posters read: In these tunnels were Gas Chambers, extermination camp for Poles KL Warschau!
630:
Everything that is related to negative treatment of Jews by Poles during the Holocaust is now being distorted and manipulated – with the goal of promoting a false narrative and sowing confusion on English
200:
this was a medium-sized camp, with 8,000-9,000 inmates and (by the end of the war) some 4,000-5,000 fatalities. The camp only operated for one year between July 1943-July 1944, part of it as a sub-camp of
591:. Perhaps they didn't realize that the numbers didn't add up. Perhaps the fact that this wasn't a major camp, but a relatively unknown - almost obscure - location played a part as well: Knowledge has a 487:; treats the gas chambers as both fact and controversy in successive paragraphs, while noting a dispute on the exact number of inmates, and the lack of support by IPN. The article remained in " 813:. Monografie / Instytut Pamięci Narodowej--Komisja Ścigania Zbrodni przeciwko Narodowi Polskiemu. Warszawa: Instytut Pamięci Narodowej--Komisja Ścigania Zbrodni przeciwko Narodowi Polskiemu. 189:
casualty numbers (for what reason, it didn't say). And this is just a selection - the whole article consisted of such details, advanced not by reliable sources but by conspiracy theorists.
774:
Camps were often arranged as systems with one main camp and multiple "satellite" camps; Majdanek had at least eight such satellites within a 130 km radius, and another one further away.
587:- the name or the general location, for example - editors were not inclined to delve deeper. Perhaps they did not notice the odd engineering details, or the telltale signs of an 156:
A cross at the center of memorial. The sign reads: "Memorial 200 thousands victims of KL Warschau. German extermination camp for Poles 1942-1944". The memorial is complete with
233:
the real purpose of this commemoration is to present it as a direct competitor with the memory of the Holocaust, especially in Poland, the geographic heart of the genocide.
222: 113:"standard trope on the Polish nationalist right that Jews have exaggerated their victimhood in order to extort money from the Poles and obtain global power and influence" 573:; and yet on Knowledge it became a full length article with translations or cross-Wiki links in a dozen languages, surviving "in the wild" for anywhere from 3-15 years. 460: 326: 33: 225:, bringing the number of the dead to as much as 20,000. As for the push to commemorate KL Warsaw in the version imagined by Trzcińska, Prof. Jelena Subotic of 899: 871: 131: 329:): Early on it presented the "tunnel chamber" as fact; later that was removed, but the article still described the camp as an extermination camp alongside 293: 584: 545:, inadvertently propagating the conspiracy theory from the English to the German. A proposal for deletion & renewal was posted on the talk page on 317: 302: 249:, with another paragraph giving a daily death count of 400 victims over a period of 22 months, or about 264,000 victims - more than more well-known 721: 196: 298: 663:
This is the challenge faced by the Knowledge community: to re-assert itself as a reliable, dependable source on world history. Will it rise up?
322: 274:. Seeing the extent of false information in the article, there was no choice but re-write the article from scratch based on mainstream sources. 361: 277: 168:, describing a large camp with a capacity of 40,000 prisoners - an order of magnitude more than that accepted by historians - complete with 164:
Naturally, after reading such a provocative piece one might turn to Knowledge for an broader outlook; but what might one find there?
785: 499:), with a lengthy discussion of the conspiracy theory along with statements on its controversiality and the IPN's conclusions. In 140: 447: 365: 152: 818: 356: 275: 237:
Reviewing the article's history, one can see it was always in "conspiracy theory" turf, despite hundreds of edits by over
338: 268: 266: 264: 762: 546: 127:. Worst of all, plaques and monuments bearing false witness to the secret genocide started to appear around the city." 334: 595:
of short articles on esoteric subjects, which uninvolved editors are often hesitant to touch; or perhaps it was the
438: 415: 178:"the first gassing there took place on October 17, 1943, killing at least 150 Poles... and about 20 Belgian Jews" 17: 368:): Similar details to the main article. Trzcińska is cited as a historian, and the sole item of dispute is the 516: 419: 520: 500: 247:"Among those grouped in Warsaw the majority was either shot to death or gassed in a provisional gas chambers" 567:"the existence of the Warschau concentration camp is hardly mentioned in standard accounts of the Holocaust" 443: 845: 554: 534: 210: 202: 52:. Wartime aerial photography shows that the tunnel was used for horse and car traffic throughout the war. 686: 190: 165: 145: 49: 389: 288:
wasn't the only article affected - this conspiracy theory propagated to several higher-tier articles:
636: 619: 283: 242: 214: 91: 741:, Routledge, 2010, chapter by Dieter Pohl, page 156-157 in print version (no page numbers in e-book) 508: 333:, Sobibor and Majdanek. Trzcińska is treated as a bona-fide historian; a 2003 investigation by the 226: 400: 427: 109:"resentful of the international attention the Holocaust receives to claim a parity of suffering" 703: 690: 557:
the page was completely rewritten, including a mention of Trzcińska's claims' "fringe" status (
504: 74: 44: 477:
Created with conspiratorial content on 25 August 2004 and remained as such until August 2019.
726: 496: 492: 406:; eight years later, the article still has only two references and four bibliography items. 8: 651: 596: 484: 550: 530: 385: 96: 410: 394:"From autumn of 1942 next step of extermination of Warsaw’s population was launched..." 372:(the other supposed gas chambers are presented as historical fact). Story was live for 330: 250: 173: 169: 86: 814: 82: 26: 488: 181: 553:
of Trzcinska (published in June 2003, about a month after the IPN report), and on
56: 270:
which were mostly ignored by other editors, the story was live in main space for
262: 186: 65: 932: 926: 600:
might've persisted for fifteen more - an unacceptable result by any standard.
623: 206: 157: 519:. The fringe aspects of the subject were further marginalized in edits like 344:; "controversial" would seem an understatement: the IPN investigation found 707: 645:
Holocaust revisionism in Knowledge deserves to be studied in its own right.
588: 37: 577:
Why didn't English Knowledge editors notice this conspiracy theory before?
430:). An article with 36,137 average monthly views, had this story live for 100: 655: 380: 309:. An article with 5,562 average monthly views, had this story live for 144:
Unofficial memorial for KL Warschau at Alojzy Pawełek square, near the
254: 592: 261:. And despite concerns raised by an IP and an editor two years later, 104: 340:
is cited for background details, and to support that statement that
583:
for 15 years? One can only speculate. Perhaps once some parts were
258: 48:
Road tunnels on Józef Bem street, under the railway leading to the
610: 119:
has no support among scholars, which doesn't stop its followers:
27:
How Knowledge promoted alternative Holocaust history for 15 years
786:"History, memory, and politics in post-communist Eastern Europe" 729:, Martin Dean, and Mel Hecker, Volume I, part B, pages 1512-1515 180:. Earlier versions of the articles - before a large cleanup by 702:
Christian Davies is a Warsaw-based journalist writing for the
73:
In May 2019, a piece was published by Christian Davies of the
900:"The Fake Nazi Death Camp: Knowledge's Longest Hoax, Exposed" 872:"The Fake Nazi Death Camp: Knowledge's Longest Hoax, Exposed" 616:"The Fake Nazi Death Camp: Knowledge's Longest Hoax, Exposed" 218: 245:, when it was created, the article stated in WikiVoice that 213:. Most of those who survived the were taken on a series of 559:"not scientifically serious and criticized by historians" 614:, with an English version being published the next day: 608:
On October 3, 2019 the story broke on Israeli newspaper
846:"חשיפת מוסף הארץ: התרמית הגדולה ביותר בתולדות ויקיפדיה" 348:
to support the theory. And yet, the story was live for
753:, Princeton University Press, Wolfgang Sofsky page 337 739:
Concentration Camps in Nazi Germany: The New Histories
893: 891: 217:
starting in July 1944, with a 4,500-strong march to
89:, that states that 200,000 Poles were killed in the 811:
Konzentrationslager Warschau: historia i następstwa
513:
Konzentrationslager Warschau: historia i następstwa
422:): Much of the time in unqualified WikiVoice, e.g. 294:
German camps in occupied Poland during World War II
888: 658:'s Center for Research on the Holocaust in Poland 318:War crimes in occupied Poland during World War II 194:What do reputable sources say? According to the 639:, Prof. of History at the University of Ottawa 424:"similar camps existed at Warsaw and Janowska" 107:" narrative used by some right-wing activists 693:, Christian Davies, Vol. 41 No. 9, 9 May 2019 618:. Quoted in the article were leading experts 927:Mass at chruch followed by march after cross 722:Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, 1933–1945 719:The United States Holocaust Memorial Museum 197:Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, 1933–1945 863: 751:The Order of Terror: The Concentration Camp 115:. Needless to say, Davies states that this 933:Rafał Betlejewski on KL Warschau (English) 370:"enormous gas chamber in a railway tunnel" 756: 682: 680: 678: 676: 674: 32:Adapted and submitted to The Signpost by 897: 869: 151: 139: 130: 64: 55: 43: 843: 790:Centre for International Policy Studies 783: 14: 671: 808: 744: 537:that replaced what the editor saw as 357:Nazi crimes against the Polish nation 713: 565:The USHMM's encyclopedia notes that 342:" claim is considered controversial" 732: 650:Havi Dreifuss, Prof. of History at 23: 579:Why wasn't the article as much as 507:using reliable sources (primarily 24: 949: 920: 569:; another source refers to it as 533:and was fairly accurate, until a 335:Institute of National Remembrance 307:"...up to 200,000 at KL Warschau" 85:, first advanced by Polish judge 763:Clearing the Ruins of the Ghetto 539:"old historical inconsistencies" 439:List of Nazi concentration camps 396:Tagged since February 2011 with 221:, some 120 km away. Others were 837: 834:Socialism, and the Shoah (2014) 827: 61:relic by Trzcińska’s adherents. 802: 784:Subotic, Jelena (2019-09-19). 777: 768: 696: 13: 1: 898:Benjakob, Omer (2019-10-03). 870:Benjakob, Omer (2019-10-03). 597:aggressive editorial dynamics 543:"better article from English" 503:the article was rewritten by 844:בן יעקב, עומר (2019-10-03). 223:executed in the ghetto ruins 18:User:François Robere/sandbox 7: 603: 10: 954: 146:Warszawa Zachodnia station 50:Warszawa Zachodnia station 551:this scathing book review 284:Warsaw concentration camp 125:Knowledge entries amended 117:"nationalist fever dream" 92:Warsaw concentration camp 809:Kopka, Bogusław (2007). 227:Georgia State University 81:. The piece describes a 571:"admittedly apocryphal" 211:not expected to survive 704:London Review of Books 691:London Review of Books 687:Under the Railway Line 661: 642: 346:no evidence whatsoever 235: 161: 149: 137: 129: 79:Under the Railway Line 75:London Review of Books 70: 62: 53: 643: 628: 523:from 10 October 2017. 491:" for several years ( 231: 155: 143: 134: 121: 68: 59: 47: 727:Geoffrey P. Megargee 652:Tel Aviv University 251:extermination camps 411:Extermination camp 331:Auschwitz-Birkenau 162: 150: 138: 71: 63: 54: 820:978-83-60464-46-5 535:January 2006 edit 83:conspiracy theory 41: 945: 914: 913: 911: 910: 895: 886: 885: 883: 882: 867: 861: 860: 858: 857: 841: 835: 831: 825: 824: 806: 800: 799: 797: 796: 781: 775: 772: 766: 760: 754: 748: 742: 736: 730: 717: 711: 700: 694: 684: 659: 640: 547:13 December 2007 531:15 February 2005 489:fringe territory 405: 399: 31: 953: 952: 948: 947: 946: 944: 943: 942: 941: 923: 918: 917: 908: 906: 896: 889: 880: 878: 868: 864: 855: 853: 842: 838: 832: 828: 821: 807: 803: 794: 792: 782: 778: 773: 769: 761: 757: 749: 745: 737: 733: 718: 714: 701: 697: 685: 672: 666: 660: 649: 641: 635: 606: 485:6 February 2005 464:section of the 403: 397: 281:Unfortunately, 187:Warsaw Uprising 87:Maria Trzcińska 34:François Robere 29: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 951: 937: 936: 935: 930: 929:, 9 July 2019. 922: 921:External links 919: 916: 915: 887: 862: 836: 826: 819: 801: 776: 767: 755: 743: 731: 712: 695: 669: 668: 647: 633: 605: 602: 563: 562: 524: 517:passed as a GA 509:Bogusław Kopka 505:Dreamcatcher25 478: 456: 455: 435: 407: 401:more footnotes 377: 353: 314: 95:using a giant 28: 25: 15: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 950: 940: 934: 931: 928: 925: 924: 905: 901: 894: 892: 877: 873: 866: 851: 847: 840: 830: 822: 816: 812: 805: 791: 787: 780: 771: 764: 759: 752: 747: 740: 735: 728: 724: 723: 716: 709: 705: 699: 692: 688: 683: 681: 679: 677: 675: 670: 667: 664: 657: 653: 646: 638: 637:Jan Grabowski 632: 627: 625: 624:Havi Dreifuss 621: 620:Jan Grabowski 617: 613: 612: 601: 598: 594: 590: 586: 582: 578: 574: 572: 568: 560: 556: 552: 548: 544: 540: 536: 532: 528: 525: 522: 518: 514: 510: 506: 502: 498: 494: 490: 486: 482: 479: 476: 473: 472: 471: 469: 467: 466:Warsaw Ghetto 463: 453: 449: 445: 441: 440: 436: 433: 429: 425: 421: 417: 413: 412: 408: 402: 395: 391: 387: 383: 382: 378: 375: 371: 367: 363: 359: 358: 354: 351: 347: 343: 339: 336: 332: 328: 324: 320: 319: 315: 312: 308: 304: 300: 296: 295: 291: 290: 289: 287: 285: 279: 278: 276: 273: 269: 267: 265: 263: 260: 256: 252: 248: 244: 240: 234: 230: 229:writes that: 228: 224: 220: 216: 215:death marches 212: 208: 207:Warsaw Ghetto 204: 199: 198: 192: 191: 188: 183: 179: 175: 171: 167: 159: 158:votive candle 154: 147: 142: 133: 128: 126: 120: 118: 114: 110: 106: 102: 99:built into a 98: 94: 93: 88: 84: 80: 76: 67: 58: 51: 46: 42: 39: 36:from work by 35: 19: 938: 907:. Retrieved 903: 879:. Retrieved 875: 865: 854:. Retrieved 849: 839: 829: 810: 804: 793:. Retrieved 789: 779: 770: 765:, Yad Vashem 758: 746: 734: 720: 715: 708:The Guardian 698: 665: 662: 654:and head of 644: 629: 615: 609: 607: 589:urban legend 580: 576: 575: 570: 566: 564: 558: 555:January 2009 542: 538: 526: 515:(2007)) and 512: 480: 474: 465: 461: 457: 451: 437: 431: 423: 409: 404:}} 398:{{ 393: 379: 373: 369: 355: 349: 345: 341: 316: 310: 306: 292: 282: 280: 271: 246: 238: 236: 232: 195: 193: 177: 170:gas chambers 163: 124: 122: 116: 112: 111:, part of a 108: 90: 78: 72: 30: 852:(in Hebrew) 529:Created on 483:Created on 243:August 2004 239:150 editors 209:, and were 182:K.e.coffman 136:Trzcińska". 101:road tunnel 97:gas chamber 939:References 909:2019-10-04 881:2019-10-03 856:2019-10-05 795:2019-10-24 656:Yad Vashem 631:Knowledge. 381:Pabst Plan 241:. Back in 174:crematoria 166:This entry 593:long tail 549:, citing 462:Aftermath 105:Polocaust 648:—  634:—  604:Epilogue 585:verified 521:this one 501:Jan 2016 497:Jan 2016 475:English: 452:15 years 432:12 years 374:13 years 350:13 years 311:13 years 272:15 years 259:Majdanek 203:Majdanek 176:, where 904:Haaretz 876:Haaretz 611:Haaretz 541:with a 527:German: 481:Polish: 255:Sobibór 77:titled 38:Icewhiz 817:  581:tagged 468:entry 337:(IPN) 253:like 219:Kutno 16:< 850:הארץ 815:ISBN 706:and 622:and 493:2012 448:2019 444:2004 428:2011 420:2019 416:2007 390:2019 386:2009 366:2019 362:2006 327:2019 323:2006 303:2019 299:2006 257:and 172:and 511:'s 392:): 305:): 902:. 890:^ 874:. 848:. 788:. 725:, 689:, 673:^ 626:: 561:). 495:- 446:- 418:- 388:- 364:- 325:- 301:- 912:. 884:. 859:. 823:. 798:. 710:. 454:. 442:( 434:. 426:( 414:( 384:( 376:. 360:( 352:. 321:( 313:. 297:( 286:' 160:. 148:. 40:.

Index

User:François Robere/sandbox
François Robere
Icewhiz

Warszawa Zachodnia station


London Review of Books
conspiracy theory
Maria Trzcińska
Warsaw concentration camp
gas chamber
road tunnel
Polocaust


Warszawa Zachodnia station

votive candle
This entry
gas chambers
crematoria
K.e.coffman
Warsaw Uprising

Encyclopedia of Camps and Ghettos, 1933–1945
Majdanek
Warsaw Ghetto
not expected to survive
death marches

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.