751:: I was thinking the same thing about the depth charts in the templates... It's troublesome and I'm not really sure how to combat it, but it's an issue I've been dealing with since I started here. I hadn't actually considered the positions on the player pages, since I felt those are usually grabbed from PFR or the team site anyways. Whatever the case may be, I'm strongly of the opinion that we shouldn't be using the depth charts for player positions, given that 14 of them explicitly state they're unofficially and a number of them state that they were put together by the media team. This leads me to believe the NFL doesn't actually
1447:
Tennessee. Just because his pre-draft height was 5’ll 1/8” doesn’t mean Green Bay or us on
Knowledge must have him at 5’ll”. The draft was months ago and that may not even be accurate. The Packers have him at 6’0” at this very moment in time for a reason, that’s the fact. This isn’t about personal opinions, some bias or an assuming feeling that the editors at Packers.com or other sites made a mistake listing him at 6’0”. That’s not for us to decide. If anyone concurs, then I’m going to update his height to 6’0” on his page.
1844:
do not know if anyone will really care, however, because of all this I will be taking a break from
Knowledge. I know that Brayden Narveson is something I should keep up on, however I think it is needed for a break for me. Anyways, goodbye for now, I will make another edit or two today cleaning things up, but for now, I am going to be gone, thanks for all the help I have done for the past 4 years. Anyways goodbye for now, I am sure that Knowledge will be an ever better place for when I am away… goodbye.
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1902:. That was a bull**** edit war anyway. Remember your revert of a revert? I should have stayed away after that, because you seemed to agree with me when I said the team page and pfr are usually the way to go. You created the page, so I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. I didn't like others jumping in and assuming they took all the erasers off pencils. Hope you come back soon, you did fine. A better place .. not sure about that one. ;) Regards,
234:
949:. EGG seems a bit misplaced, as it's not totally unexpected, so it's more a matter of project principles and style being consistent. The main downside is that some totally unfamiliar with the NFL would find the general team page more useful, but the assumption is that those are a smaller group of readers, and the general links are at the season-specific team page.—
733:(above), is that if this project is using the teams' website as the primary resource, it is unclear to a drive-by editor, as it's not linked in the infobox and almost assuredly isnt sourced in the body. The roster templates linking to depth charts also opens it up for unregulated use as a reference for those not aware of these proposed project guidelines. —
711:, myself, and you often struggle with is that people make guesses at player positions. They routinely make a buttload of unsourced changes based on what they see on a few plays or based on what they're guessing, or based on what one site reports. I wish they were all protected but I'm way too involved to implement something like that.
1080:. In this case though, since their edit summary "Info Update" didn't seem to match their actual edit to remove content, you might try to reinsert it with an explanation like "unexplained removal of sourced content". Hopefully that resolves it, or they discuss it, but yeah, good to be aware of potential edit wars. Good luck.—
790:
I agree it would be undue to label a player as a center if they shifted there for a single game as an example. For active players we should only be listing their current position but for retired players we should be listing the position(s) they played for a significant amount of time, not just as one
1843:
Goodbye, at least for now. I do not know how long, it may range from a few days to a few months, I am not sure. This is partially due to school and somewhat getting into an editing war and my previous past of vandalism (I do sincerely apologize for that), even if it had been over 3 years ago now. I
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Since 2020, it has been expanded from 10 to 16, up to six veterans can now be signed to it, and teams are able to call up two PS players on game day up to three times a season. When these navboxes were created, the PS was for players with two or fewer accrued seasons and they could only be added to
1053:
have reverted my edits such as
Narveson losing the kicking job to Nick Folk, his weight being 6 foot instead of 5 foot 11, or Greg Joseph being released hours after signing Narveson (if you check the logs). I did not want to get into an editing war so I wanted to check with you higher-ups. Anyway
1644:
I would be in favor of this. I had reverted a couple edits doing this but after seeing it discussed here and previewing it I think it looks good. I do agree there is a bit more emphasis on the practice squad and its importance now more than ever so I'd be in favor of the change. My only con to
1446:
I absolutely agree 100% with Kante4. Brayden
Narveson’s height should be listed as 6’0”. That’s how he’s listed on Packers.com and NFL.com. Those are the most recent and factual sources. It shouldn’t matter what other sites say or what the Titans had him listed as. Narveson no longer plays for
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doesn't seem to have a Style Guide on NFL game pages. I personally prefer just the team link, because that's what I expect when clicking in the infobox and otherwise it comes across as an easter egg link, but I truly don't care. I just want to update the documentation page so there are no more
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shows the starting lineup by position and at the end shows a position for everyone who got in the game. I'm not an active editor for player positions, but it seems unwieldy to verify if someone shoves a one-off position in an infobox. It also might be undue if other sources dont update their
1347:'s page it shows pre-draft at an 1/8th of an inch. I even wrote about it in the revision history, that maybe someone could find that out. We definitely shouldn't lose sleep over it. Honestly, I wish this player had a pfr page. I'm not going stop using a team page over this in the future.
1179:
I wouldn't. Looks like Green Bay rounded it off. Keeping it at 5'11" seems accurate. That might be the way a team site lists players. A stupid 1/8th of an inch could lead to this. It's just tough to point fingers at a team site at times. I just went through this with pfr and teams.
675:
I agree with what's been proposed. One more thing I'd like to see done (for consistency reasons) is specific OL positions, which are almost always noted in depth charts and only change on the field due to injury. We already allow this for the more dynamic DL, LB, and DB positions. ~
655:, I agree, and it's been very frustrating to deal with, especially from the IP range of 68.234.69.0/24. Repeatedly making changes based on depth charts and not listening to warnings and ignoring the fact that they explicitly state "unofficial" in a number of cases. It's been rough.
1414:'s original prediction was correct, because when he was on the Titans he was 5'11". However, when he went to Green Bay, he magically went up to 6'0" (and all the others updated to that as well). I personally think he should stay at 5'11" but I don't know what you guys think.
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Relevant to the topic, but I also don't think we need to add the elevated PS players to the active roster since they revert back following the game. It just adds additional maintenance (up to 64 possible transactions a week) that people usually forget to change back. ~
540:
Now that the depth charts for some teams have come out, I've been running into an issue with IPs changing player positions and justifying it by pointing to a depth chart (which are often stated as unofficial). I see this as problematic for the following reasons:
1151:, which many editors do when there's no pfr link. The team has him listed at 6'0" - 215 lbs. The article has pre-draft numbers. I would have went with the team link, I'm going out on a limb, but the Packers might have the final current say in the matter.
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changing it is the main roster page lists reserves first then practice squad, which is why I reverted in the first place to follow that same format. So if we make the change to one I think it may be beneficial to do the other for continuity's sake.
1236:
Alrighty
Airtighty thanks. Good night (for me), one last question, do you guys ever sleep? It seems like the majority of people that work on this WikiProject never sleep, I am sure you guys do, but I would like some secret insight from you.
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makes me inclined to discount them. Esp. in the preseason, where from a long-term encyclopedic perspecive, it's more important what they actually end up playing, and how reliable sources generally describe the player.
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Before a change is made, I recommend that a couple of people agree to it. Not just the one you agree with. If you change it and it gets reverted, it starts all over again. Let's not forget the title of this section.
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Normally I would agree 100%. But I think
Packers.com might not be rounding him off correctly. Sometimes people do make mistakes, I think I heard that somewhere. Just going along with it right or wrong ... nah.
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Aren't there game books usually created that list positions in some sense? I feel like I saw that at some point and if they exist I think those might actually be the best thing to take as "official".
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1015:, and the ones I checked all used the season specific team link. Presumably all the SBs are the same. Keep the status quo, barring a new consensus, which also seems most relevant (see above). —
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906:, is that these fields would contain just the linked name of each team. However, there seems to be this prevailing desire to have a hidden link to the teams' season page. So for example, in
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Just a note: Take T. J. Watt for example. The
Steelers team site and pfr are correct. His pre-draft is 6'4 1/2". But they both list him at 6'4".... and 1/2 is more than 1/8. Go figure.
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offs. Same reason we wouldn't label Vrabel as a tight end, despite his 10 touchdowns. I'm just not sure what to do about the roster templates at this point given the long term issues.
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I don't necessarily object to
Dissident's proposal, but this is also what I was mulling over. IR players are, in a sense, more officially and statically part of the team typically.
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that teams put out any type of official depth chart, but does instruct teams to list one on their site (all of the sites are pretty identical in a number of structured components).
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Has anyone come across a good source that explains how taking part in preseason games, being on a practice squad, etc does not contribute to being on a team's all-time roster?
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1558:, I think listing the practice squad above the inactive list makes more sense since PS players still practice with the active roster and can be called up to play in games. ~
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616:: Sorry for the delayed response. It is a larger issues during the preseason, but it does also come up during the regular season sometimes as well, just much less often.
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is requesting the ability to add an image to the infobox and, I believe, asking for the the title of the article to display overtop of the infobox instead.
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If this position is ambiguous (such as listing "DL", which at least 14 rosters regularly do), then the depth chart may be used to designate their position
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So did I. But it wasn't heading in that direction, not with the one and done reverting attitude. This is only a speck on the paper. No big deal.
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will be okay with it, being that he was originally doing the right thing .. before I made a suggestion. We should all be able to sleep again.
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Players who have played in at least one regular-season or playoff game with the
Packers; list includes years and regular-season games played
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1742:. There's no other way to add images, which could be used to show players lifting the Lombardi Trophy in a Super Bowl year or something. ~
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I've been looking at rosters a lot this last week. For what it's worth, practice squad players are listed below those on the reserve list.
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and the current team website is what i would consider checking for players and if they conflict, then it should be discussed.
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When there's a position listed on a depth chart that is different from that of the team's roster, it has led to edit warring
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A player's position will default to what is listed on the team's roster/website, which will have priority over depth charts
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But assuming that they "might" have made a mistake is not the way to go I say. We have sources and should stick to them.
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It would be helpful to get some consensus on this. I don't want to make a unilateral change that falls into an edit way.
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Yep, that is absolutely OK with me, I just wanted a consensus to be made with at least most of us agreeing with it.
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Please provide any feedback you may have on how best to handle player positions for the relevant rosters listed in
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Do not use NFL.com for player positions, this is widely recognized as not up to date on this type of information.
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Glad you got that, lol. I think you're correct, not sure how to fight one of those team site editors though. :/
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I would love that implementation, even if we didn't agree that it was helpful for determining player positions.
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OK I am not really sure how this works and if I am in the wrong place, however I am wondering about the page
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583:. I believe this is important to get ironed out once and I'd appreciate everyone's help in doing so.
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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14 teams explicitly state on the webpage for their depth charts that what's listed is unofficial
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Several teams state that their depth charts are compiled by their PR department on the page
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Differing timezones and most editors here seem like night owls, giving that impression. ~
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Template_talk:Infobox_NFL_team_season#Template_should_accommodate_an_image_(team_photo)
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It's always been that way but recent PS rule changes have put more importance on it. ~
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918:. Other than the documentation page, I don't see anything else discussing this (i.e.
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Unless we want to be hierarchical. Reserve list players are earning full salary? —
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parameters. The template's documentation page says that these parameters should be
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has separate listings of "All-Time Roster" and "All-Time Practice Squad Roster". —
2020:
1835:(If you have questions you can ask me on my talk page, I may respond, I may not.)
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I'd support that and I think it makes sense, especially for those non-starters.
1969:
I would appreciate some input in the above referenced section for the template
1811:. Carrite is requesting that images be available to be added, such as shown in
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I changed it. Maybe this will save someone from being blocked. I believe that @
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Another depth chart hasn't been updated since July 26, per the info on the page
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thanks for dealing with me and please let me know if I am in the wrong place.
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I'm not up on rule changes, so I don't have an informed opinion either way. —
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Team profile link being dynamically added/removed from the infobox based on
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the active roster if a corresponding move was made (like any signing). ~
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2040:, thank you so much! I checked the Packers' media guide and it includes
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Template talk:Infobox American football game#Proposal changes to Infobox
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content disputes on it. Can we establish consensus one way or the other?
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Does Merlot or Cabernet count? Ooops .. I didn't say that. Good night.
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707:, I think the biggest problem that we struggle with, something that @
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Devil's advocate: Why assume the pre-draft is necessarily right? —
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1410:(the Titans did as well). When I searched everything up, I think
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Well, I mean if you look it up, it is conflicting… some say 6'1"
1194:
Ohhhhhhhh, OK so I will revert my revert of my other revert LOL
1938:
Is the NFL an independent source for an article about a player?
250:
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This is a matter that I figure others may want to weigh in on
536:
Roster templates - player positions - depth charts or roster?
1695:, given how many articles it could potentially impact, but @
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Is this more of a preseason issue, or regular season also? —
1979:, which is heavily utilized by this WikiProject. Thank you.
1045:. I personally do think that my edits are correct, however
1755:
It looks like there is a functioning logo field as well.
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The fact that some depth charts explicit say "unofficial"
325:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the
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Wikipedia_talk:Main_Page/Errors#Independent_sources
1297:If the Packers list him at six feet, so should we.
581:Category:National Football League roster templates
896:The club that was designated as the visiting team
2065:
2079:NA-importance National Football League articles
2074:Project-Class National Football League articles
1859:Take a break and breather. Best of luck to you.
1807:A request has been made on Carrite's behalf at
1714:It looks like there already is an image field?
1147:I believe IP 135. is going with the team link:
27:and anything related to its purposes and tasks.
902:. The expectation, per this documentation and
729:: An issue that I see, that is touched on at
381:Knowledge:WikiProject National Football League
339:Knowledge:WikiProject National Football League
2084:WikiProject National Football League articles
900:The club that was designated as the home team
342:Template:WikiProject National Football League
1149:https://www.packers.com/team/players-roster/
941:If you look at indiv Super Bowl pages (e.g.
1779:Just realized I didn't add a link. Fixed @
1051:User:2404:4404:442F:2100:11B9:83:1305:D2B3
977:, so this would cover those games as well.
452:Hall of Fame article improvement campaign
275:does not require a rating on Knowledge's
1165:OK I can put it back at 6 foot. Thanks.
876:Can I get some clarity on the intent of
633:and others might not even provide a date
1950:2603:7000:2101:AA00:F804:C954:1D4C:5D11
871:Template:Infobox American football game
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813:could mitigate this issue at least. ~
1013:List of nicknamed NFL games and plays
446:to all NFL related biography articles
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1428:So, pfr has him also at 6'0. This,
967:, ya Super Bowls are covered under
572:should be used as the second option
281:It is of interest to the following
13:
1011:I randomly sampled the entries at
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1948:, for a discussion about this. --
1831:Why I moved to inactive (Goodbye)
490:NFL lists to Featured List status
345:National Football League articles
319:This page is within the scope of
2099:Knowledge pages with to-do lists
1687:Template:Infobox NFL team season
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1974:Infobox American football game
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333:and see a list of open tasks.
37:Put new text under old text.
1550:Quick roster navbox question
1078:Knowledge:Dispute resolution
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482:missing NFL player articles
45:New to Knowledge? Welcome!
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1121:Yes, thanks for helping.
449:Improve articles for the
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