Knowledge talk:WikiProject Football/Players/Archive 1

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NOW" flashes every 10 seconds. But that's not all. If I'm an old customer, there's a link to Ladbrokes so that I can deposit and withdraw money, and if I don't have an account with this organisation, a link is provided to enable me to open such an account. Below that is another link to enable to me to bet every day of the year! Four games are presented to tempt me. "BET NOW!' screams a sign in the bottom right hand corner. Below that, Billy Bunter, tempts me to lay a bet while there is time and further down there is more betting news, designed to get me to wager my money.

879:. The fullname is the player's birthname or full name, be it Ronaldo Luis Nazário de Lima or Henrik Edward Larsson. These two fields are almost never the same, as players usually don't go by their complete birthname, but in case the article creator does not know the full birthname, I'd prefer to see the fullname field be left blank to not make the reader of the article believe that the player was not given a middle name at birth. Although I do not believe that it is very important, and going around removing such entries is a little overkill. – 35: 710:, which states that the birthplace goes in the body, not in the opening sentence. I do not see any reason to change these two guidelines for footballers; these are, in fact, biographies. I have had a complaint from an editor who is trying to follow this proposed template, but a proposal does not override established guidelines. I suggest that the template for footballers be changed to conform to the existing guidelines. 2069:. Both players were present in the database with good starting stats and a very high potential, and Maksim (spelled "Maxim Tsigalko" in the game) in particular was capable of becoming a world class player, to the degree that he is very well known amongst fans of the Football Manager series and considered one of the game's legends. 1453:

all serious teams are watching all serious players with a view to buying them potentially. Just because a few possibles are mentioned in 'news of the world' or wherever, doesn't make them true. filling up profiles with endless links to clubs and quotes from clubs or players about where they may go is non encyclopedic. --

1230:"PFA fans player of the month" and obscure awards from gossip magazines. Cristiano Ronaldo even has a 'runner up' award from a magazine fan vote (and inconsistant - he won the 'readers sexiest player of the year' from a certain well known non-hetrosexual mag, and that isn't even noted!). Criteria specified anywhere? -- 1655:

and otherreally notable players shouldhave playing style sections. It should be fairly easy to find sources, as football is written about daily in most of Europe and South America, and players like Di Stefano and Pele have had books written about them. It would serve to enlighten the reader as to how

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It's therefore my belief that Knowledge should follow the legal standpoint, and still show the contract holder as the Current club. I also believe that the squad template on the player's page should be that of his parent club, with the loan club's template below it. In the case illustrated above, the

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Hi. I am currently in discussions with another editor over representation of player loan details in infoboxes. I am quite sure that, after a loan arrangement has been agreed, due to the contractual arrangements of a player, his displayed Current club should still be that which holds his registration.

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etc) and therefore aren't constantly updated, is that where there is a total it's outdated - accurate only up to a certain point in the player's career. I often find the article then hasn't been edited since that point, so is incorrect. It may be a general point rather than specific, but I've found a

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On the question on where to post, it is generally a good idea to at least add a note on the main project talk page that a discussion has been started elsewhere (as Oldelpaso says, most members don't have subpages on their watchlist). Regarding me being "called here" by Kingjeff, I can assure you that

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article for me and tell me why exactly we're not meeting notability requirements. Nick has competed in recognizable leagues (NCAA college, Cypriot 2nd Division pro), both of which are high caliber enough to be represented with pages of their own, so why then are players from those leagues marked as

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I think the template as currently displayed is fine (with possible exception or wikilink on club name as they are all linked in the info box already). More to the point is where to draw the line at 'awards', particularly individual awards. Some of these players with idol worshippers have things like

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A standard way of doing it is a good idea. Maybe using a standard code, like D C for a central defender, M R for a right midfielder, etc. Either that or use a standard layout like "Centre/Right/Left Back". I think a single position section is sufficient really. Dos this suggestion sound like a good

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placed below it), even though his Senior clubs record clearly shows the loan arrangement as being acknowledged. In a loan arrangement (not "transfer", as that is taken to mean full transfer of registration with the appropriate FA from one club to another), the player's contract still belongs to the

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I don't think we should remove fullname if it is the same as playername in cases where the player didn't get a middle name. It is an important piece of information for readers, telling them that the player's birthname is exactly the same as the name they use. When the fullname and playername is the

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For most of the world the height data should be metric first. This is not catered for in the template. I think it would be better to replace this: 5 ft 11 in (1.80 m) with this: 1.80 m (5 ft 11 in). Also, instead of leaving the people who need the Imperial measurements high and dry, I suggest an

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not notable enough. The player himself and I have worked together to put up an entry that is certainly not a stub (at least compared to a lot of poorly entered pages) and follows the templates to the best of our recognition. Please advise as to why this deletion mark has been placed. Thank you.

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Can we please avoid the conjecture about what club is interested/linked to/has been watching who, particularly around trtansfer windows. Most of the so called links are from gossip rags which are notoriously unreliable, and only about 5% of reported possible transfers actually happen. Fact is that

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I agree that the current template is good, might as well keep wikilinking the club name for easy access. Along with the debate over what constitutes a notable enough award, do we include second and third place ("podium") finishes? I tend to note the second and third place finishes with two * stars

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I still think we should keep the fullname parameter if the player has no middle name to remove the ambiguity between knowing there is no middle name, and not knowing if there is a middle name. I suggest using three different cases: 1) The player has a common name, and and extra birthnames on that,

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I note that a link to Soccerbase is part of the template for football players. Is this appropriate? Soccerbase is designed to promote gambling. Its entire function is to tempt people to take a bet. On Ashley Cole's web page with Soccerbase, I am offered a 25 pound free bet as a new customer. "BET

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I believe a player should be notable if he has played for a professional club, regardless of the league that club was playing in at the time; either this, or he was at the time a professional himself irrespective of the league or club's status. In short, my suggestion is that a professional, or a

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I think there needs to be a consensus on the the way positions are written in the infoboxes. Some are written as "Centre/Right/Left Back", others "Centre Back, Right Back, Left Back", others are just left as "Defender". Also, maybe if there were two categories, one for main position and one for

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As regards my request for opinions, it is due to the fact that my edits were reverted, and I was asked to come here to discuss, but here I received (befor yours) only the answer of my reverter and of a user who was called by my reverter; it looks like this was not the right place to discuss the

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I'd agree with the wikilinked idea, but i think it would be a good idea to say "Right Back" or "Left Back" rather than "Full Back". Things like that and saying "Defender" seem a bit too vague. If people just put down the players main position rather than anywhere they can play would be easier.

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It's a nice template, but the existence of the "playoff" field makes it of limited use outside of the US (where playoffs, if they exist, are usually just one or two games to decide promotion/relegation). Perhaps it might be an idea to make the playoffs field hidden by default, unless there's

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I agree on the order, almost. :) I use birth, "other", death, country (player), position, player clubs (chronological), country (manager), manager clubs (chronological). The only difference being how I place the year of death. I too dislike people (mostly bots) rearranging the categories. --

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I don't think it matters much. To me it makes sense to simply put "defender" if a player plays at both centre half and full back, as it covers both. I am strongly against what I would call "Championship Manager notation", as it is particularly confusing to those unfamiliar with football.

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I'm quite embarrassed by the way people are modifying the order of the cats for footballers: they sort it by alphabetical order (which is the policy for general articles, I guess) while I would prefer to have some special policy for footballers. To me, the cats should be in this order:

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I'm not sure, if the idea that a player who has played in a professional league is "notable" is entirely true. I think the categorisation of "notable" players by the league they played in is verging on inaccurate - what if a player plays, or has played, for a professional club (taking

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As said, me and Kingjeff aren't best friends. How would he know that I would (partially) agree with him? Is it possible that he called me here because I am one of the more active members (and the founder) of the WikiProject? I'd find that much more likely than any of your theories.

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In official goal charts Playoff goals don't count towards a players final league total. An example, ex Derby striker Steve Howard is listed as having 16 league goals last season in all offical statistics, though if his two playoff goals are counted it would take his total up to 18

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The problem is: is it ok to remove the "fullname", if it is the same as "playername"? I think that, when they are duplicates, it is un-necessary to repeat the information, and thus I remove "fullname"; Kingjeff thinks it is opportune to keep both, or, if it is the case, to remove

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I can see that a code may be confusing to people unfamiliar with football as you say, good point. However, I do think that there is some merit in a more uniform position naming system, as there are currently some variations that are imprecise. Or is it really not a problem?

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is currently registered with Charlton, and as such is illegible to play for Sunderland unless and until he is recalled. It is also worth noting that not all loan agreements give the parent club the right to recall a player before the agreed termination date of the loan;

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How about creating a section that describes their playing style - I know that it can easily become POV. e.g Rooney - A deep lying forward who likes to drop into midfield to collect the ball and start the play from there. (Obviously it would be elaborated a bit

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use both playername and fullname, 2) The player has a common name, and no extra birthnames on that, use both playername and fullname, 3) The player has a common name, and any extra birthnames are unknown, use only playername. That way there is no ambiguity.

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Now that's all very nice - especially for Soccerbet - and I am sure that they do very nicely, thank you very much, from the links that Knowledge so generously provides them. However, there is the small matter of Knowledge policy. It advises us to avoid

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The canvassing rules mean that I must declare I was alerted to this thread (without a view being expressed) by one of the participants, and that my comment may be disregarded. However, it does seem a no-brainer that Soccerbase should be removed from a

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What if the player's name and full name are the same? Not everybody has a middle name. In that case the field should go blank, right? Also, it would be nice to have the opinion of someone not "called" by my "friend" above. Is this project active or

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As it is now, clubs are both listed in the template to the right and as a list in the text the info becomes redundant, would it be an idea to delete the list in the text? Perhaps placing an "Honours" section somewhere instead/too?

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I have created an external link template to FIFA records for international players (added to player style page template) usage is: FIFA player|id=63869|name=Pele , which, when used with wiki template brackets ({{ .. }}) gives eg:

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Elisson sums it up pretty well. If the names are the same then I can't see that it matters either way. Give people a chance to answer, its less than 24h since the thread started and its the weekend. Generally speaking though, the

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The fact is you're trying to override the opinion of a an entire WikiProject. If you mean the fields in the infobox, they are not duplicates. Johan Elisson summed it up. The playername is what the player is usually called, be it

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Do you think it would be wise to add months to the years in the history? Especially with players turned manager, I find it helpful to know when exactly a contract ended or the person was fired. I experimented with this on

1219:. Now it is probably a minor issue, but when a player has won a lot of trophies, I think it makes the article look better if we have some standardized (and aesthetically pleasing) format for listing them... any thoughts? 2258: 1029:. The fullname is the player's birthname or full name, be it Ronaldo Luis Nazário de Lima or Henrik Edward Larsson. These two fields are almost never the same, as players usually don't go by their complete birthname. 740:

Thanks for the invitation; I have taken you up on it, and have added a biography section to the template. In addition to providing a hook from which to hang the birthplace, it can house other items of human interest.

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Oops sorry, I just noticed I should have discussed here before I made my changes, but it can be easily removed, can't it? Feel free to modify the bullshit I wrote I'm not full of imagination at this point. Cheers,

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On the strength of this evidence I think I would be entitled to propose a purge of Soccerbase from Knowledge. However, my proposal is far more modest. I propose that we change the template so that it links to the

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lot of profiles, and totals in particular, which haven't been updated in years. I'm upholding in part the general consensus of having it only for retired players - although I admit to having added a total for

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Changing the template would only mean that new soccer players would be linked to the BBC rather than a betting web site. It does not change any existing player profile. That is another question entirely.

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I've begun to see quite a bit of use of italics in the infobox, particularly the player's name and for (loan). What's the correct style on either of these cases or any other italics in the infobox.

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I and Kingjeff have had a few arguments over the time and that I in no way "defend" him all the time or anything like that, I just tell what I think, and in this case, I happen to agree with him. –

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I have created some templates for creating a stat box for regular players (positions other than goalkeepers). These are my first templates, so let me know if there are anythings that should change:

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It uses the accursed adjective form for nationality, which leads to ridiculous and confusing sentences like "English-born Scottish player" for self-identifying Englishmen with one Scotland cap, or

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Why the BBC? The BBC Website gives statistical information about players and matches in a more digested form. It does not push gambling and users may find its statistics more useful. Take

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content? If the player is name John Smith, why you need to write it twice? The only reason why the fields are there is in case the name of the player and his full name differ, such as in

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same, but the editors don't know wether or not the player was given a middle name, I think it is ok to remove fullname to not confuse readers, but I don't consider it very important.

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would be more appropriate. I got my wrist slapped earlier this year for moving several articles from "soccer player" to "footballer". I hope this helps but I'm not sure it does. --

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I'd suggest using any position that can be wikilinked and keep it simple, i.e. centre back, full back, winger, none of the championship manager terminology which needs explaining.

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Any comment welcome. And by the way, if someone adds something like West Ham F.C. midfielders, then the player should not have the cat West Ham F.C. players, which is redundant.

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Why has this been removed from the player profile? Whilst it isn't used by English speaking countries., most footballers in Europe have a nickname by which the press call them.

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Maksim and, to a lesser extent, his brother Yuri both achieved a small amount of fame and worldwide renown, particularly in the United Kingdom, after they were featured in the

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But the fact is that Michael Ballack does have a middle name. It's just that we don't know what it is. Lets drop it as it doesn't really matter over a minor issue like that.

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flag icons should not be used for locations of birth and death. So, what is the general opinion on this? My interpretation is that flag icons do not belong in infoboxes. --

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I believe one flag in player's infobox, right before the City/Country of birth is more than enough for a football player. I have cleaned up many players as in (for example

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The "Domestic Cup" heading. If a player has competed in a European league and the MLS, the "Domestic Cup" would be different and the stats should arguably not be mingled.

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I have updated the Tim Template MOS page with the new Infobox Football biography 2 template, per reason provided in edit summary. Retrospectively discussing... :-) --

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currently has an absurdly long list of "honours", including his Beach Soccer achievements and his attributes in a computer game. It's in serious need of a cleanup.

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Sunderland template has been wiped. A quick reply would be appreciated, including any previous test cases where consensus was established either way. Thanks.

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parent club, and the player can be recalled at any time, without any legal regard to the loan club, who cannot protest or withhold the player from returning.

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that there is not middle name. If there is no "fullname" field, that means that either we do not know of any middle name, or the middle name does not exists.

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he has a middle name, why are you writing that his "fullname" is Michael Ballack? And if you think that is a minor issue, why are you reverting my edits?--

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page. However I don't think it's a good idea at all. The infobox is only there as a guide to the article. I would add the months to the main article.

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re-lighting fires based on some assumed legitimacy because of our MoS. This should only ever be used in the case of entirely unambiguous nationality.

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seems to have made a good observation here - the BBC has a reputation for impartiality while Soccerbase, as Michael point out, is a sponsored site.

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Like I said. it should be the big bolded letters that should be deleted. Not the fullname. Whats the point of the be bolded letters to begin with?

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article, but I'll ask here too. Number of goals listed in the player infoboxes - should it be goals in all competitions, or just league goals? --

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on including them, so as per the existing template & manual of style they should not be used. I will continue to roll back such uses, as per

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No, as long as the player have played in one or more games in the competition earlier and still plays for the team when they win, it's fine. -

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I have made the template so you can rename the "Domestic Cup" (to "US Open Cup", for example), but I don't know if this is a good idea or not.

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can you help me with my page? i need a update on my page like i did it with my german wikipedia page. it'll be great if you can help me....

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If a league has more competitions than "Playoffs", "Domestic Cup", and "Continental Cup" then the template also would currently be limited.

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right under that award - I've also taken to using small graphics, if the consensus approves them we can specify size standards - check at

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player who has played for a professional club, should be seen to be "notable"; the league should not be the deciding factor in my view.

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Probably, since playoffs are technically part of the league season (rather than a separate cup) though I can't be 100% sure on that. --

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Would it be best to have this only for retired players, as otherwise the total will need to be continually re-calculated each time? --

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to individual web pages that primarily exist to sell products or services, or to web pages with objectionable amounts of advertising.

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I do not really understand if you are serious or not. The matter is the following, please answer to this question and let's end it.

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And that, of course, is exactly what Soccerbase exists for. All the statistics are simply bait to tempt you to bet, now, Now, NOW!

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It seems every article uses a different style in listing a player's honours. There is only 1 featured article about a player (

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I don't think they're exactly the same. If anything should be done, the big bolded letters should be gone. Not the full name.

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Certainly; I've found a large problem, particularly with players who aren't of very high profiles (I'm on about the likes of

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Is there a standard in place for when an athlete shares a name with another person who has a Knowledge article? Should it be

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If you mean the fields in the infobox, they are not duplicates. The playername is what the player is usually called, be it

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Eh? History category? I don't really understand what you mean? Would you care to explain a little more on what you mean? –

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Must a player have participated in the final of a competition for it to be added to his/her list of honours? For example,

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Just read your post and agree. Seems very trivial and also takes on and almost biased point of view. Delete the section?

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I'd agree with that. If we're going to have a total line at all then it makes sense to only use it for retired players.

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Perhaps it should be applied not only to retired players, but those who have had very long careers? Only a thought.

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for a while, and every once in a while some unregistered user keeps adding the following parapraph to his article:

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With the youth teams hardcoded on top, it seems most logical to start with the earliest professional club on top.

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I am open to what needs to change for players outside of the US. Some problems I see even for players in the US:

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dates should not be linked any more, so shouldn't this be corrected for the birth date on this project page? --

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a certain player goes about his game and what have been recoginised as his strengths and weaknesses. Thoughts?

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As regards "callings", I hope you agree it is quite a coincidence he calls you here and you agree with him...--

432: 1215:) so I have used that style in most of my edits, but I think other styles look better (for example the one at 1990: 1646: 1570: 1559: 1476: 1139: 408: 376: 150:, if the player is himself semi-professional while playing for a professional club in a professional league ( 616:

I will take a look at how to handle the playoff situation over the next week or so. Thanks for your input. -

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and while the template does support dates in the form MM/YYYY, the box gets a bit wide. Ideas, opinions? --

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to name one, who technically is still an active player but has come out of retirement on several occasions.

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I'd like to open the discussion about flag icons again (a user keeps adding them to the birth country of

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Instead of the current system (with the redundant parentheses around goals), I propose A format like

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but as an Englishman who can't abide the term "Soccer" I would. I guess if Antonio is American, then

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it the quickest place to get a response because less people have the subpages on their watchlists.

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Goood question. Shame nobody answered it last time, as I was here to try and find out the same. --

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something in it (though that could be tricky), or create a new template for non-MLS players. --

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Hi! Nobody answered the question above, but it seems worth thinking about. The article on

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I've removed this from the template example, as there is no consensus here for it as yet.

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I don't think this page is a traditional one to get a lot of replies, possibly try the

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They should not be used, in my view, and I do not see any agreed consensus here nor on

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Should substitute appearances be included in the "caps" parameter of player infoboxes?

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If discussion about nationality is needed, it can be added in subsequent sentences.

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as a case-in-point) in a league which is not fully professional (for instance, the

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Is a betting website appropriate in the template as a link for Knowledge articles?

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The simple answer is - there is no simple answer! Generally I would use the style

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It doesn't apply to all players, but to some it's very important to be included.

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there is about 4 or 5 paragraphs on his history,but this isnt on the template...

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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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for use of the Olympic medals - looks good sometimes in front of the year. -

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invisible statement such as this:

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If him and his buddy are writing the article, that's the first problem. -

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where do you put the history of the player, there is no history category

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has no middle name, so "playername" and "fullname" are the same: is it

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What is the difference between these two fields? Are they duplicates?--

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No, it's been discussed to death, the last time in October 2009. See

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League Appearance (League Goals) European Appearance (European Goals)

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I've seen (and added myself) players' career totals to infoboxes (see

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Man-of-the-match accolades. List them in honours sections or not? -

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Go ahead and do the changes needed. This is a wiki after all. ;) –

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Current (most recent) club on top or on bottom? Does anybody care?

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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Football/Archive 12#Flags in infoboxes

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case, but when they are the same the second field is redundant.--

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Should player pages have stats? I have noticed some players (ex.

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I don't think such this is appropriate, what does anyone think?-

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Hi all. I've been watching the page about Belarusian player

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If they are not the same, why are you filling them with the

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I have to agree with the other editor on this one. The

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clubs by chronological order (e.g. Arsenal F.C. players)

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manager (if needed, with managed clubs like for player)

702:

The proposed template is opposed to the guideline at

2324:

Amended above link to point to the archive section.

1390:

WP:FLAGS#Not for use in locations of birth and death

1351:

so I'm moving the comments there. Please disregard.

570:. I have used it on a few MLS players, for example: 1949:"Football" isn't really an adjective in this sense. 1067:??? Can you give any reference for this claim? And 2308:A parallel discussion is taking place at Wp:Footy 2160:, yet it is included in his honours. The same for 2238:may be compared with the Football Betting site, 1964: 1347:I see this has been discussed in parent page: 2148:Question regarding Honours (cup achievements) 2133:In that way, all comers will be catered for. 1946:Three links in a row. This should be avoided. 1651:The articles on footballers, especially the 1047:to remove the duplicated "fullname" field?-- 1914:The current boilerplate first sentence is: 1376:). After searching through the archives of 1388:shows no flag icons at all. According to 278:position (e.g. football (soccer) striker) 2156:was never selected by Barcelona for the 1319:| cityofbirth = {{flagicon|Argentina}} ] 135:, where semi-professional clubs such as 966:The fact that no middle name is showed 14: 1386:Knowledge:WikiProject Football/Players 698:Opening sentence and location of birth 383:since he is American? Help please...-- 48:Do not edit the contents of this page. 239:Seems like a good idea. Modified. -- 827:Is there anyone else reading this?-- 100:in here... Looks good. Any ideas? -- 29: 1910:Rewriting the sample first sentence 1349:Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Football 1326:What is the consensus? Is that OK? 27: 18:Knowledge talk:WikiProject Football 852:Give people a chance to see this. 568:Template:football playerstat start 275:country (e.g. english footballers) 28: 2351: 1082:Career (league) totals in infobox 2166:2004 UEFA Champions League Final 2158:2009 UEFA Champions League Final 1384:which is a little inconclusive. 1308:Only one flag in Players Infobox 704:WP:DATE#Dates of birth and death 490:Does that include playoff goals? 413:Antonio Martinez (soccer player) 381:Antonio Martinez (soccer player) 98:Template:Football player infobox 33: 1803:Can someone take a look at the 1631:competition record (archived)-- 1615:External link template for FIFA 1532:holds the players registration 2082:12:33, 16 September 2010 (UTC) 1979:Chris Cunningham (not at work) 1873:Yes.I have removed the links. 1536:. Taking your case in point, 1378:Knowledge:WikiProject Football 1111:23:18, 13 September 2007 (UTC) 357:for example on the article on 105:17:07, 20 September 2005 (UTC) 13: 1: 2121:16:35, 10 December 2010 (UTC) 1828:16:35, 1 September 2008 (UTC) 1565:21:31, 14 February 2008 (UTC) 1289:for a little MLS graphic and 1240:09:17, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 1145:18:25, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 1125:18:08, 27 February 2008 (UTC) 746:23:52, 15 November 2006 (UTC) 736:18:13, 15 November 2006 (UTC) 715:17:55, 15 November 2006 (UTC) 425:19:15, 30 December 2007 (UTC) 409:Antonio Martinez (footballer) 403:18:56, 30 December 2007 (UTC) 377:Antonio Martinez (footballer) 2032:18:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC) 2013:14:59, 12 January 2010 (UTC) 1844:22:49, 6 November 2008 (UTC) 1609:21:26, 5 February 2008 (UTC) 1590:14:19, 5 February 2008 (UTC) 1519:21:18, 31 January 2008 (UTC) 1463:10:25, 19 January 2008 (UTC) 1440:11:10, 27 October 2007 (UTC) 1303:03:47, 3 November 2008 (UTC) 1076:14:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 1062:14:37, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 1052:14:13, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 1034:14:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 1003:16:47, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 978:14:51, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 962:14:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 937:14:02, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 923:12:56, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 909:12:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC) 895:19:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC) 857:19:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC) 832:19:14, 2 December 2006 (UTC) 811:19:04, 2 December 2006 (UTC) 794:18:42, 2 December 2006 (UTC) 773:18:38, 2 December 2006 (UTC) 763:18:30, 2 December 2006 (UTC) 317:18:26, 6 February 2006 (UTC) 296:18:15, 6 February 2006 (UTC) 116:20:26, 26 October 2005 (UTC) 96:We should find a way to add 7: 2178:10:39, 2 January 2011 (UTC) 1960:(born 1 January 1975) is a 1935:This has several problems: 1921:(born 1 January 1975) is a 1883:16:07, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 1868:13:40, 9 January 2009 (UTC) 1425:00:08, 3 January 2008 (UTC) 1402:22:38, 2 January 2008 (UTC) 676:17:57, 18 August 2011 (UTC) 654:17:13, 18 August 2011 (UTC) 636:15:58, 18 August 2011 (UTC) 254:21:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC) 234:20:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC) 146:Or even, as in the case of 10: 2356: 2143:11:21, 30 April 2011 (UTC) 1380:I found a discussion here 1280:19:54, 27 April 2008 (UTC) 1262:15:02, 23 April 2009 (UTC) 1195:16:28, 19 March 2012 (UTC) 555:Template:fbplayerstatstart 525:12:02, 10 March 2008 (UTC) 388:01:14, 26 April 2006 (UTC) 366:22:06, 17 March 2006 (UTC) 352:22:21, 13 March 2006 (UTC) 332:21:23, 13 March 2006 (UTC) 2334:14:41, 11 July 2012 (UTC) 2242:to judge the difference. 2223:rather than Soccerbase. 2164:, never selected for the 2096:03:56, 20 July 2011 (UTC) 1986:10:36, 14 July 2009 (UTC) 1641:13:10, 4 March 2008 (UTC) 1545:'s recent loan deal with 1534:even if this is temporary 1528:should be the club which 1468:Current club in infoboxes 1367:14:30, 24 July 2007 (UTC) 1342:01:01, 24 July 2007 (UTC) 621:14:18, 20 July 2006 (UTC) 595:07:19, 20 July 2006 (UTC) 579:19:25, 19 July 2006 (UTC) 562:22:36, 12 July 2006 (UTC) 510:07:16, 20 July 2006 (UTC) 495:22:34, 12 July 2006 (UTC) 484:13:20, 10 July 2006 (UTC) 218:17:35, 13 July 2007 (UTC) 2193:23:37, 2 June 2013 (UTC) 2061:computer game series by 1905:11:24, 8 July 2009 (UTC) 1785:14:08, 11 May 2008 (UTC) 1754:23:54, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 1740:23:51, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 1717:17:45, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 1702:17:21, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 1686:17:01, 10 May 2008 (UTC) 1224:07:22, 9 July 2007 (UTC) 566:I moved the template to 548:18:49, 9 July 2006 (UTC) 468:21:30, 8 July 2006 (UTC) 449:18:49, 18 May 2006 (UTC) 170:. 16:50, 19 March 2012. 152:Dagenham & Redbridge 2320:16:18, 4 May 2011 (UTC) 2304:09:48, 3 May 2011 (UTC) 2277:06:26, 3 May 2011 (UTC) 2259:01:47, 3 May 2011 (UTC) 2049:==Cultural References== 1666:14:20, 1 May 2008 (UTC) 1500:on loan from Sunderland 1101:14:47, 2 May 2007 (UTC) 754:playername and fullname 2249:What do others think? 2127:Height data in infobox 2038:Players in video games 1975: 1933: 1676:others? Any thoughts? 1549:was one such example. 1489:Charlton Athletic F.C. 916:main project talk page 433:Order of club history? 1991:European performances 1955: 1916: 1647:Playing style (again) 1571:Months in the history 473:Just league goals. -- 46:of past discussions. 2055:Championship Manager 1953:Proposed reworking: 1658:Michael Clarke, Esq. 1448:Transfer Speculation 1323:| countryofbirth = ] 461:Alessandro Del Piero 1941:summaries like this 156:Football League Two 133:Conference National 2185:Terje Christiansen 2063:Sports Interactive 1431:Italics in infobox 459:Asked this on the 1903: 1830: 1814:comment added by 1516: 1485:Sunderland A.F.C. 1365: 1340: 1099: 1001: 960: 893: 743:Chris the speller 734: 712:Chris the speller 417:Daemonic Kangaroo 293:Julien Tuerlinckx 216: 199: 185:comment added by 113:Julien Tuerlinckx 89: 88: 58: 57: 52:current talk page 2347: 2301: 2296: 2230:, who plays for 2065:, especially in 2059:Football Manager 1900: 1894: 1850:Linking of Dates 1809: 1799:Article Deletion 1563: 1514: 1355: 1330: 1314:Sergio Goycochea 1287:Dwayne DeRosario 1277: 1193: 1143: 1095: 991: 950: 883: 724: 590: 505: 479: 440:I've seen both. 350: 342: 315: 307: 252: 244: 212: 198: 179: 102:Sebastian Kessel 67: 60: 59: 37: 36: 30: 2355: 2354: 2350: 2349: 2348: 2346: 2345: 2344: 2299: 2292: 2288:Rotten tomatoes 2201: 2150: 2129: 2103: 2044:Maksim Tsyhalka 2040: 1993: 1969:who plays as a 1912: 1898: 1891: 1856:MOS:UNLINKDATES 1852: 1836:Themodelcitizen 1801: 1673: 1649: 1617: 1573: 1550: 1547:Southend United 1470: 1450: 1433: 1310: 1295:Themodelcitizen 1275: 1209: 1188: 1130: 1084: 1041:Michael Ballack 756: 700: 688: 586: 537: 501: 475: 457: 455:Number of goals 435: 373: 346: 338: 325: 311: 303: 262: 248: 240: 226: 180: 176: 124: 94: 63: 34: 26: 25: 24: 12: 11: 5: 2353: 2343: 2342: 2341: 2340: 2339: 2338: 2337: 2336: 2200: 2197: 2196: 2195: 2162:Marco Ferreira 2154:Alexander Hleb 2149: 2146: 2128: 2125: 2111:kind regards 2102: 2099: 2074:NineInchRuiner 2071: 2050: 2047: 2039: 2036: 2035: 2034: 1992: 1989: 1951: 1950: 1947: 1944: 1911: 1908: 1890: 1889:Infobox update 1887: 1886: 1885: 1851: 1848: 1847: 1846: 1800: 1797: 1796: 1795: 1794: 1793: 1792: 1791: 1790: 1789: 1788: 1787: 1763: 1762: 1761: 1760: 1759: 1758: 1757: 1756: 1722: 1721: 1720: 1719: 1672: 1669: 1648: 1645: 1644: 1643: 1616: 1613: 1612: 1611: 1572: 1569: 1568: 1567: 1469: 1466: 1449: 1446: 1444: 1432: 1429: 1428: 1427: 1370: 1369: 1325: 1321: 1317: 1309: 1306: 1291:Vittorio Pozzo 1267: 1266: 1265: 1264: 1243: 1242: 1213:Gilberto Silva 1208: 1205: 1204: 1203: 1202: 1201: 1200: 1199: 1198: 1197: 1178: 1177: 1176: 1175: 1174: 1173: 1172: 1171: 1168:Steve Claridge 1152: 1151: 1150: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1083: 1080: 1079: 1078: 1055: 1054: 1027:Henrik Larsson 1018: 1017: 1016: 1015: 1014: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1010: 1009: 1008: 1007: 1006: 1005: 984: 971: 943: 929: 898: 897: 877:Henrik Larsson 868: 867: 866: 865: 864: 863: 862: 861: 860: 859: 841: 840: 839: 838: 837: 836: 835: 834: 818: 817: 816: 815: 814: 813: 799: 798: 797: 796: 776: 775: 755: 752: 751: 750: 749: 748: 699: 696: 687: 684: 683: 682: 681: 680: 679: 678: 659: 658: 657: 656: 639: 638: 614: 613: 610: 607: 600: 599: 598: 597: 581: 536: 533: 532: 531: 530: 529: 528: 527: 487: 486: 456: 453: 452: 451: 434: 431: 430: 429: 428: 427: 372: 371:Disambiguation 369: 355: 354: 324: 321: 320: 319: 289: 288: 285: 282: 279: 276: 273: 270: 261: 258: 257: 256: 225: 222: 221: 220: 175: 172: 160:2007-08 season 123: 120: 119: 118: 93: 90: 87: 86: 81: 78: 73: 68: 56: 55: 38: 15: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 2352: 2335: 2331: 2327: 2323: 2322: 2321: 2317: 2313: 2310: 2307: 2306: 2305: 2302: 2297: 2295: 2289: 2285: 2280: 2279: 2278: 2274: 2270: 2266: 2265:Michael Glass 2263: 2262: 2261: 2260: 2256: 2252: 2251:Michael Glass 2247: 2243: 2241: 2237: 2233: 2229: 2224: 2222: 2216: 2214: 2213: 2205: 2194: 2190: 2186: 2182: 2181: 2180: 2179: 2175: 2171: 2167: 2163: 2159: 2155: 2145: 2144: 2140: 2136: 2135:Michael Glass 2124: 2122: 2118: 2114: 2109: 2106: 2098: 2097: 2093: 2089: 2084: 2083: 2079: 2075: 2070: 2068: 2064: 2060: 2056: 2051: 2045: 2033: 2029: 2025: 2021: 2017: 2016: 2015: 2014: 2010: 2006: 2002: 1999: 1996: 1988: 1987: 1984: 1980: 1974: 1972: 1968: 1965:professional 1963: 1959: 1954: 1948: 1945: 1942: 1938: 1937: 1936: 1932: 1930: 1927: 1924: 1920: 1915: 1907: 1906: 1902: 1901: 1884: 1880: 1876: 1872: 1871: 1870: 1869: 1865: 1861: 1857: 1854:According to 1845: 1841: 1837: 1833: 1832: 1831: 1829: 1825: 1821: 1817: 1813: 1806: 1786: 1782: 1778: 1773: 1772: 1771: 1770: 1769: 1768: 1767: 1766: 1765: 1764: 1755: 1751: 1747: 1743: 1742: 1741: 1737: 1733: 1728: 1727: 1726: 1725: 1724: 1723: 1718: 1714: 1710: 1705: 1704: 1703: 1699: 1695: 1690: 1689: 1688: 1687: 1683: 1679: 1668: 1667: 1663: 1659: 1654: 1642: 1638: 1634: 1630: 1626: 1623: 1622: 1621: 1610: 1606: 1602: 1598: 1594: 1593: 1592: 1591: 1587: 1583: 1579: 1578:Norbert Meier 1566: 1561: 1557: 1553: 1548: 1544: 1539: 1535: 1531: 1527: 1523: 1522: 1521: 1520: 1517: 1512: 1511: 1504: 1501: 1497: 1494: 1490: 1486: 1482: 1478: 1477:Case in point 1474: 1465: 1464: 1460: 1456: 1445: 1442: 1441: 1438: 1426: 1422: 1418: 1414: 1410: 1406: 1405: 1404: 1403: 1399: 1395: 1391: 1387: 1383: 1379: 1375: 1368: 1363: 1359: 1354: 1350: 1346: 1345: 1344: 1343: 1338: 1334: 1329: 1324: 1320: 1315: 1305: 1304: 1300: 1296: 1292: 1288: 1282: 1281: 1278: 1272: 1263: 1259: 1255: 1251: 1247: 1246: 1245: 1244: 1241: 1237: 1233: 1228: 1227: 1226: 1225: 1222: 1218: 1214: 1196: 1191: 1186: 1185: 1184: 1183: 1182: 1181: 1180: 1179: 1169: 1164: 1160: 1159: 1158: 1157: 1156: 1155: 1154: 1153: 1146: 1141: 1137: 1133: 1128: 1127: 1126: 1122: 1118: 1114: 1113: 1112: 1109: 1105: 1104: 1103: 1102: 1098: 1093: 1089: 1077: 1074: 1070: 1066: 1065: 1064: 1063: 1060: 1053: 1050: 1046: 1042: 1038: 1037: 1036: 1035: 1032: 1028: 1024: 1004: 999: 995: 990: 985: 981: 980: 979: 976: 972: 969: 965: 964: 963: 958: 954: 949: 944: 940: 939: 938: 935: 930: 928:"playername". 926: 925: 924: 921: 917: 912: 911: 910: 907: 902: 901: 900: 899: 896: 891: 887: 882: 878: 874: 870: 869: 858: 855: 851: 850: 849: 848: 847: 846: 845: 844: 843: 842: 833: 830: 826: 825: 824: 823: 822: 821: 820: 819: 812: 809: 805: 804: 803: 802: 801: 800: 795: 792: 788: 784: 780: 779: 778: 777: 774: 771: 767: 766: 765: 764: 761: 747: 744: 739: 738: 737: 732: 728: 723: 719: 718: 717: 716: 713: 709: 705: 695: 694: 686:Playing Style 677: 673: 669: 665: 664: 663: 662: 661: 660: 655: 651: 647: 643: 642: 641: 640: 637: 633: 629: 625: 624: 623: 622: 619: 611: 608: 605: 604: 603: 596: 593: 591: 589: 582: 580: 577: 573: 569: 565: 564: 563: 560: 556: 552: 551: 550: 549: 546: 542: 526: 522: 518: 517:AnOrdinaryBoy 513: 512: 511: 508: 506: 504: 498: 497: 496: 493: 489: 488: 485: 482: 480: 478: 472: 471: 470: 469: 466: 462: 450: 447: 443: 442: 441: 438: 426: 422: 418: 414: 410: 406: 405: 404: 400: 396: 392: 391: 390: 389: 386: 382: 378: 368: 367: 364: 360: 353: 349: 345: 341: 336: 335: 334: 333: 330: 318: 314: 310: 306: 300: 299: 298: 297: 294: 286: 283: 280: 277: 274: 271: 268: 267: 266: 255: 251: 247: 243: 238: 237: 236: 235: 232: 224:list of clubs 219: 215: 210: 206: 202: 201: 200: 196: 192: 188: 184: 171: 169: 163: 161: 157: 153: 149: 148:Dave Rainford 144: 143:also play)? 142: 138: 134: 130: 117: 114: 109: 108: 107: 106: 103: 99: 85: 82: 79: 77: 74: 72: 69: 66: 62: 61: 53: 49: 45: 44: 39: 32: 31: 23: 19: 2293: 2287: 2283: 2248: 2244: 2225: 2217: 2211: 2206: 2202: 2151: 2130: 2110: 2107: 2104: 2085: 2052: 2048: 2041: 2003: 2000: 1997: 1994: 1976: 1962:Templatonian 1958:Tim Template 1957: 1956: 1952: 1934: 1923:Templatonian 1919:Tim Template 1918: 1917: 1913: 1896: 1895: 1892: 1853: 1816:NJDevils1087 1805:Nick Gkionis 1802: 1674: 1650: 1618: 1597:WP:FOOTYtalk 1574: 1538:Greg Halford 1533: 1529: 1526:current club 1525: 1509: 1505: 1499: 1481:Greg Halford 1475: 1471: 1451: 1443: 1434: 1374:Bacary Sagna 1371: 1322: 1318: 1311: 1283: 1268: 1210: 1108:robwingfield 1088:Alan Shearer 1085: 1068: 1056: 1044: 1019: 967: 782: 757: 701: 689: 668:Dave.Dunford 628:Dave.Dunford 615: 601: 587: 538: 535:Player Stats 502: 476: 458: 439: 436: 374: 356: 326: 290: 263: 227: 187:84.12.66.129 177: 164: 145: 125: 95: 64: 47: 41: 2236:BBC webpage 2228:Nathan Cole 2221:BBC website 1810:—Preceding 1543:Leon Clarke 1316:) by doing: 1271:Dudesleeper 1217:Pavel Pardo 1092:Dudesleeper 693:82.69.40.37 572:Nick Garcia 209:Dudesleeper 181:—Preceding 158:during the 40:This is an 2240:Soccerbase 2232:Chelsea FC 2088:Pereirab04 1971:midfielder 1967:footballer 1929:midfielder 1633:ClubOranje 1493:January 31 1254:Artie P.S. 1232:ClubOranje 1073:Panarjedde 1049:Panarjedde 975:Panarjedde 934:Panarjedde 906:Panarjedde 829:Panarjedde 791:Panarjedde 760:Panarjedde 465:Bigdottawa 363:Philc 0780 359:Ronaldinho 329:Philc 0780 287:death year 269:birth year 168:User:Ddk67 129:Luton Town 122:Notability 2312:Oldelpaso 2005:BabyJonas 1875:Rettetast 1777:Quincy042 1732:Bloc rock 1709:Oldelpaso 1694:Bloc rock 1678:Quincy042 1671:Positions 1530:currently 1045:forbidden 932:matter.-- 920:Oldelpaso 708:WP:MOSBIO 541:Petr Cech 174:Nicknames 141:Southport 137:Bath City 84:Archive 5 76:Archive 3 71:Archive 2 65:Archive 1 2284:template 2269:Martinvl 2067:CM 01/02 1973:for X... 1931:for X... 1926:football 1824:contribs 1812:unsigned 1653:FIFA 100 1582:Madcynic 1059:Kingjeff 1031:Kingjeff 854:Kingjeff 808:Kingjeff 770:Kingjeff 666:Thanks. 395:kingboyk 195:contribs 183:unsigned 20:‎ | 2326:Eldumpo 2170:Wolcott 2123:Dinzey 2101:My Page 2024:Jaellee 1860:Jaellee 1746:Peanut4 1601:Peanut4 1552:Dan1980 1437:Peanut4 1413:WP:FLAG 1394:Jaellee 1207:Honours 1132:Dan1980 1117:Jameboy 1023:Ronaldo 989:Elisson 948:Elisson 881:Elisson 873:Ronaldo 787:Ronaldo 722:Elisson 706:and at 646:Jaellee 644:Yes. -- 618:Rballou 576:Rballou 559:Rballou 545:Rballou 492:Rballou 446:Poulsen 385:Rockero 340:Elisson 323:History 305:Elisson 242:Elisson 231:Poulsen 92:Infobox 43:archive 22:Players 2300:(talk) 2234:. The 2210:links 2113:Dinzey 1899:Oranje 1692:idea? 1417:Qwghlm 1409:WT:WPF 1221:ugen64 1163:Rooney 904:not?-- 691:more). 588:Daduzi 503:Daduzi 477:Daduzi 1560:stalk 1353:Alexf 1328:Alexf 1190:Ddk67 1140:stalk 968:means 16:< 2330:talk 2316:talk 2294:Tony 2273:talk 2255:talk 2189:talk 2174:talk 2139:talk 2117:talk 2105:Hi, 2092:talk 2078:talk 2028:talk 2022:. -- 2020:here 2009:talk 1983:talk 1897:Club 1879:talk 1864:talk 1840:talk 1820:talk 1781:talk 1750:talk 1736:talk 1713:talk 1698:talk 1682:talk 1662:talk 1637:talk 1629:FIFA 1625:Pele 1605:talk 1586:talk 1556:talk 1515:(do) 1496:2008 1459:talk 1421:talk 1398:talk 1299:talk 1276:Talk 1258:talk 1250:Zico 1236:talk 1136:talk 1121:talk 1097:Talk 783:same 672:talk 650:talk 632:talk 521:talk 421:talk 399:talk 348:Talk 313:Talk 260:Cats 250:Talk 214:Talk 207:. - 205:here 203:See 191:talk 139:and 1510:Ref 1479:is 1025:or 875:or 574:-- 379:or 162:)? 154:in 2332:) 2318:) 2275:) 2257:) 2191:) 2176:) 2141:) 2119:) 2094:) 2080:) 2057:/ 2030:) 2011:) 1981:- 1881:) 1866:) 1842:) 1826:) 1822:• 1783:) 1752:) 1738:) 1715:) 1700:) 1684:) 1664:) 1639:) 1627:– 1607:) 1588:) 1558:| 1491:, 1483:, 1461:) 1423:) 1400:) 1301:) 1273:/ 1260:) 1238:) 1138:| 1123:) 1094:· 1069:if 996:• 992:• 987:– 955:• 951:• 888:• 884:• 729:• 725:• 674:) 652:) 634:) 557:-- 523:) 423:) 401:) 211:· 197:) 193:• 80:→ 2328:( 2314:( 2271:( 2253:( 2187:( 2172:( 2137:( 2115:( 2090:( 2076:( 2026:( 2007:( 1877:( 1862:( 1838:( 1818:( 1779:( 1748:( 1734:( 1711:( 1696:( 1680:( 1660:( 1635:( 1603:( 1584:( 1562:) 1554:( 1487:→ 1457:( 1455:T 1419:( 1396:( 1364:) 1362:c 1360:/ 1358:t 1356:( 1339:) 1337:c 1335:/ 1333:t 1331:( 1297:( 1256:( 1234:( 1192:) 1142:) 1134:( 1119:( 1000:• 998:C 994:T 959:• 957:C 953:T 892:• 890:C 886:T 733:• 731:C 727:T 670:( 648:( 630:( 519:( 419:( 397:( 344:• 309:• 246:• 189:( 54:.

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