User talk:Cuchullain/Archive 23

187:. But I do have exceptionally low tolerance for personal attacks (which I have an exceptionally strict policy advising against it, as well as using ad hominems which some users did to me to discredit my views) and comments which I find to be harassing, haranguing, accusatory, inflammatory, incivil, heckling, insulting, condescending, disrespectful, abusive, venomous, yelling, annoying, embarassing, temperamental, rude or threatening, or those that are full of vulgarity. All of these can create a power imbalance in communication and are considered detrimental to the discussion. Such comments are utterly disgraceful, as well as contentions confrontations, and these are one of the reasons why I refused to participate in that AN discussion or engage with some disruptive users (i.e. Niemti, Fladrif) out of fear of pushing the wrong buttons. That also played into my decision to avoid getting involved in contentions confrontations on Knowledge. I'm sure I didn't mean to harass or provoke anyone (whether its unintentional or intentional). Also, some users have subjected me to personal abuse and repetitive uncivil behavior, and I resent that as well. That, combined with my frustration over Knowledge's inability to deal with disruptive users and my approach in dealing with some of these users, as well as trying to deal with harassment off-wiki, pretty much emphasizes the fact that "some things are just not worth the risk", you know? Hopefully that AN discussion is finished for at least a long time and I don't have to make a fuss about it anymore. Once again, I am sorry if I was uncivil towards any user or have caused any issue with users in any way. To be perfectly honest, I didn't mean for some things to happen as I am a peaceable person by nature and I don't care if I get involved in any dispute... In fact, Ched, a fellow administrator, realized that he made some observations about me in a negative light (I get a little shaky when someone posts questionable aspects like that) and 2582:

residents, visitors, and external viewers with the most up-to-date and factual information regarding St. Johns County, we recently established a Knowledge account to offer edits and improvements to the page. Out of respect and consideration for the rules and guidelines detailed by Knowledge, we have made consistent efforts to offer content which we feel supports Knowledge’s goals of sharing unbiased, community based, and reference backed information. Though we are extremely proud of St. Johns County and would love to fill the Knowledge page with endless accolades, we recognize our responsibility to offer site visitors neutral information. We welcome any feedback on how best to balance these efforts. As an example, we would like to share the fact that St. Johns County has been recognized as having the number one school district in the state. There are numerous references explaining this recognition, how it was established, and what it means for our residents and the future of St. Johns County. With your help, we hope to share this type of County fact on Knowledge in an appropriate fashion. Thank you in advance for your time.

111:), would they bring it up to ANI or contact an administrator? Also, would an interaction ban be nullified if there is a community ban placed on the user? I am only asking. Also, having been involved with Knowledge for over 6 years with over 50,000 edits to my credit as well as 11 good articles and 10 featured articles, I am a well-respected and competent editor. If I have caused any issues with other users or if I was uncivil towards anyone, then I am deeply sorry. It was never my intention to hurt or upset anyone. By the way, some of the stress from being involved in a couple of disputes with disruptive users have got to me as well as the exam week over at my university, and as a result, I am taking a semi-Wikibreak to let off some steam. 2324:

a huge precedent for the region. You have the Northeast Florida Regional Council and the Newly established Northeast Florida Regional Transportation Commission. These are growing organizations. Not to mention the list of other establishments that include Putnam and Flagler county into there internal references to Northeast Florida. I got the citations to establish Putnam and Flagler as part of the Northeast Florida?First Coast region. I think you even have Putnam County included in the combined statistical area of Jacksonville. That's why it was kind of perplexing that when you reverted the regional map you removed Palatka and left Palm Coast.

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marketing tool, but the term leaves out a large chunk of the area population that may feel connected to the region, but not necessarily self identify with being a First Coaster. Northeast Florida being a geographical designation, and widely used by regional organizations to define an area larger than that of the Jacksonville metropolitan area, make it less loaded and more inclusive and cohesive. I don't believe two pages are needed, but a flip flop might be helpful. A history of the term First Coast should be included, but the more important encyclopedic topic is Norhteast Florida, to me. Let me know what you think.

31: 2348:, which are needed to write articles. Unlike "First Coast", we still don't have any good secondary sources - the one we do have gives a much more restricted definition than those organizations use. I think the name itself may be familiar, as it's self-explanatory, but the definition isn't necesarily; "First Coast" is pretty well known according to Lamme & Oldakowski. Again, I don't think we should perform a move or big rewrite until we can find appropriate sources for it.-- 878: 670: 2487: 724: 286: 3051:, what is required is a suitable name for a specific language which at least one scholar has called 'archaic neo-Brittonic'. In the Knowledge system, a plain vanilla name like 'British language' will have many associations for our readers other than a certain ancient language. If article titles are chosen so as to lead the reader quickly to the real topic they intend to search for, one can see the limitations of 'British language.' 901:. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Knowledge using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Multilingual editing encouraged!!! But being multilingual is not a necessity to make this project a success. Please sign up to participate 2474: 3564: 1628: 1545: 1010: 929: 195:. But I digress. Yworo was being stalked and harassed by a dynamic IP hopper from North Carolina for a time since August 2011. Back in November 2011, the IP agreed to stop interacting with Yworo at ANI, and that was a non-interaction agreement (not an interaction ban). That made it easier for everyone. The IP violated the non-interaction agreement a few more times (especially on the 2273:

find was the Enterprise Florida "regional" map, which includes metro Jacksonville as well as Putnam and Flagler. But the source isn't really about Northeast Florida as a region, it just mentions it, so we're basically using it as a primary source (and evidently Enterprise Florida now uses somewhat different names for the regions, making it less helpful here.

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from Southside. When stating "east of the river", the river becomes the point of reference. When saying "across the river", one has to ask themselves, which direction. That's my grammar lesson for the day. I'll leave it up to you, I don't really have a choice in the matter. I edit something and you come in and reedit the whole thing.

175:, in which I admit that I unintentionally went too far despite my best intentions to disengage from the thread), and I think that would be a non-interaction agreement as the interaction ban had no consensus. I was obviously insulted and heckled by Fladrif in that discussion as well as on my talk page. This is also prevalent in 693:. I'm recruiting Wikipedians who are passionate about history & culture to participate in improving Knowledge using the WDL's vast free online resources. Participants can earn our awesome WDL barnstar and help to disseminate free knowledge from over 100 libraries in 7 different languages. Please sign up to participate 3010:

I find it more confusing in that "Brittonic language" has two distinct meanings (mentioned in my post of 20:09), while "British language" has only one. And I still don't see that "Brittonic" has the edge in the sources discussed in the RM, since in those sources "Brittonic" is mostly used to refer to

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confusing, not less, than keeping the name "British language" (or possibly "British language (Celtic)" so it's clearer it doesn't mean British English). Google-hit counts are meaningless because there's no way to separate "Brittonic language" when it means "the Celtic language spoken in Britain up to

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Thanks for fixing this. I had been thinking of taking this to RM; did I read somewhere that a repeated bold move (which has been reverted and taken to ddiscussion per BRD) can be reversed as a technical move? I was looking through the RM talk pages, but had drawn a blank (and it may just be a figment

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My point there was that had Ed closed with a "no consensus to move" I could have seen where he was coming from, although I would still have disagreed. However he closed it with a "consensus not to move", which was clearly not apparent from the arguments in the RM, and the MR backs up this view. I'm

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The central issue, or one of the many side issues rather, was whether the term is used in English. It is, without the diacriticals, e.g. in newspapers and so on. Publications of the St'at'imc themselves, including www.statimc.net use the diacritical forms. Essentially the difference is between how

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New User - first edit removing Hangul from Korean girl band, then edits to cats of Dukes of Wellington, then mass undiscussed moves of Vietnam articles, with familiar pattern of redirect edit locks. From today my watchlist beeping like crazy (at the time I'm always out every Saturday) with articles I

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In my collection, at least, "Brittonic" seems to be more common than "British". However, one thing I noticed was that several of the works using "Brittonic" call it "Common Brittonic" at least part of the time. Angr suggested a name like this may be acceptable. While I still feel that "Brittonic" is

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I think it's been a good discussion, and it's clarified some things about the article. I think sources for "Northeast Florida" with turn up as the term increases in popularity. I've added two sentences describing some of the organizations; I think that will do for now until we locate some additional

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I'm actually a little torn as to whether it should be referred to as the First Coast or Northeast Florida. I think for outsiders it is easier to locate the region with the latter name. As far as the areas considered part of the region, I think you are missing a few very important references that set

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I count EdJohnston, Red Slash, Binksternet, and Smokey Joe, whose "Endorse, leaning Overturn (no consensus to rename)"/"no consensus to move" is a vote to uphold the standing status quo. Then of course there's your statement that "'no consensus' would have been reasonable", though it's now clear you

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2 endorse only - Smokey Joe moved towards overturn to no consensus. Not sure where you're getting the fourth from. At least three of the "overturn" were surprised at the outcome considering the strength of the arguments, and Smokey Joe suggested that Ed shouldn't have closed it due to admission of

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is based on usage in sources, not anticipating search patterns. My only questions are 1) which name for the ancient Celtic language predominates among scholarly sources, and 2) how strongly it leads in scholarly usage. The former indicates common name (though determining that seems tricky in this

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I find it less confusing in that "British language" can refer to any language from Britain, including English, while "Brittonic language" can only refer to this language and its related descendents. This has confused readers for years as can be seen on the talk page. Though I didn't think it so the

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I agree with your assessment. I sometimes let my personal preferences take control, especial when I go on an editing spree. I end up getting a message from you shortly after. I need to be reeled in sometimes. I will keep an eye out for more sources, but honestly it is not the most pressing issue. I

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article), which give the same basic area. However, I haven't been able to find any good sources for "Northeast Florida". Lamme & Oldakowski include it, but they give it a much more restricted area (just Duval and Nassau Counties). Of course this doesn't track with common usage. The best I could

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This isn't a headcount. No one seriously argued that Ed was out of their purview in their close, and at least two participants - including you - suggested "no consensus" would have been a palatable decision though it would have the same result. I'm getting 5 for overturn, 4 supporting the close, 1

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Yes, after much consideration I don't consider there to be a strong enough consensus to overturn the original closure. The most I could see would be "'overturn' to no consensus" (which would have the same result - the article staying put - so I'm not going to do it) and possibly relisting, which I

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The first line of the article states " is an American brewery in South Burlington, Vermont." Clearly saying an american Brewery. Its a Costa Rican owned American Brewery as it is under the proprietorship of the Costa Rican Brand. To say it is an american brewery is misleading at best. The Brand is

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Yes, that was the information I was looking for. If a user violates their non-interaction agreement, I think its appropriate to report this to an administrator or ANI. Thanks! Also, I am and have always been happy to voluntarily stop interacting with some disruptive users if they are willing to do

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Sjones, I'd really have to know more about the situation to give you proper advice. Generally speaking, an interaction ban means that an editor can't interact with or even discuss the other editor anywhere on Knowledge. I'd have to know the nature of the community ban to comment. If you're talking

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I really don't want to write an essay on this. I understand the point you are making, but it would be clearer if you used downtown in that statement or indicated to which side of the river you are referring to. You did mention downtown in the two previous regions listed, then you omitted downtown

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What's important here, though, is that the VisualEditor features an interactive template inspector; you click an icon on a template and it shows you the parameters, the contents of those fields, and human-readable parameter names, along with descriptions of what each parameter does. Personally, I

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I am a Communications Specialist writing on behalf of the St. Johns County Board of County Commissioners. As the local government body serving St. Johns County, our organization has a vested interest in the content written on the Knowledge page designated for our region. In our efforts to provide

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page. It seems that there is a struggle between the terms First Coast and Northeast Florida. They roughly have the same definition, but I'm concerned that the differences they do possess are blurred by the redirect and emphasis on First Coast. The term First Coast has a history of being used as a

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Anyway, in searching for sources, I saw your sand-box start. Are you still interested in developing the article? I probably will work rather slowly on it, as I have gotten out of the habit of editing WP. In any case, with at least 3 books published on the subject, I think a fairly long article is

3175:, which redirects to an article about languages in Canada in general. And of course that's not the only reason to move the article. I'd certainly be amenable to finding a compromise. Basically, we have a language that is called three different things by scholars: British, Brythonic, and British. 3094:

Lots of articles run the risk of not being what users were first looking for. That's what hatnotes and dab pages are for. Nevertheless, I doubt that very many readers looking for info on British English are going to search for "British language" in the first instance. It's more a case of people

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data structure, loaded through an extension called TemplateData. I'm reaching out to you in the hopes that you'd be willing and able to put some time into adding TemplateData to high-profile templates. It's pretty easy to understand (heck, if I can write it, anyone can) and you can find a guide

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Also, though it's just my own estimation at this point, I think "First Coast" is becoming more common throughout the region outside of Jacksonville. For instance you'll here references including Palm Coast and Flagler County in the "First Coast", and the name appears to be spreading to business

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I do appreciate your reedits. It helps clarify my entries, sometimes. It does get a little frustrating when I've spent time working out a format and I post the edit, only to return an hour later to find all my data has been reworked. I know that is what wiki is about, but there is a degree of

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article, and thanks for doing so: it's certainly relevant information. (And at this writing you're still the most recent to have edited.) I also wanted to ask if you would be interested in looking at a new draft of the articl?. I'd like to be very clear: I am working on this page on behalf of

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I'm afraid I don't have the background on all that, and I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you asking whether Yworo should still follow the non-interaction agreement with the IP? They certainly shouldn't hesitate to report evidence of the anon harassing them, if that's what you

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about the 5th century AD" from "Brittonic language" when it means "any language of the Brittonic branch of the Celtic language family". Nor do I see any consensus on "Brittonic language" (or anything else, for that matter) from the previous discussions you linked to above.

2818:? So far as I can tell all of the June 19 actions were bold moves and none of them were the result of discussions. Is my claim about the history correct? I don't know any way to look at the edit history and tell what name was used for the article at various times. Thanks, 2672:, although I suspect we can all hazard a guess as to high-profile templates that would benefit from this. Hopefully you're willing to give it a try; the more TemplateData sections get added, the better the interface can be. If you run into any problems, drop a note on the 1494:, and there are political issues as to why. There are many independent bands, some use the one or the other. But in "regular" media and normal print usage, the diacriticalized form is not used; if anything it's "politically correct", which also means that academic texts 2339:

I didn't look at cities in the infobox, I just restored whatever what there before to move your new image to the "Northeast Florida" section and restore the old one. I think I've taken care of it now. As for the sources for "Northeast Florida", again, those would all be

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I'm sending you this because you've made quite a few edits to the template namespace in the past couple of months. If I've got this wrong, or if I haven't but you're not interested in my request, don't worry; this is the only notice I'm sending out on the subject :).

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No, overturning the closure from "not moved" to "no consensus to move" would have the same result - the article stays put. Exceptions are sometimes made to put it back to the last stable version, but this article has been at "i" for 7 years. It's seriously time for a

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Thanks as well for the swift action. I haven't been involved with that Hijiri88 thing lately since the user's departure and my diligent efforts in reporting some IP socks of JoshuSasori. I also appreciate your efforts for taking care of this situation, Cuchullain.

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That change sounds good to me. My only issue with "east" is that Arlington is also east of the river (the edit didn't have a point of reference either). I hope my "reedits" don't bother you. It's the practice around here, and I think we've been collaborating well

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The article clearly states an American Brewery now. This implies that the Brewery is American owned. I simply changed the first line to reflect a Costa Rican owned Brewery in America. I am unsure why this change offends you so much but I will post for moderator

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ownership and pride that comes with an edit. I've also been on edge today. Didn't mean to snap. I just felt like there was this glaring problem that was not fixable unless I wrote an essay explaining it. I like the new version. It reads well. Sorry I'm crazy

3260:, uses both "Brittonic" and "British" in the same passage, and a few more use "Brythonic". Several more use either "Brittonic" in a way that isn't clear whether the language or the branch (or both) is intended, and several others do the same with "Brythonic". 3253: 3434:

did not address the substantive point I was making. If it had, then the comment you have place in the close is meaningless. Please adjust the close to do so namely that closes should be based on policies and guidelines not on a personal preference. --

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Technical requests can be used to reverse an undiscussed move you can't do it yourself. That didn't seem to be an issue here, since you were able to move it back; Marshall just shouldn't have moved it the second time. At any rate it seems to be sorted

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have limited time to edit and I always have a list of things I want update or add. This is just one more on this list. I hope I don't come across as an ass. I forget that there is a person on the other side of this screen. I do appreciate the input.

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Cuchullain, your last undo was to a edit that I feel is needed. "Southside, across the river to the south", gives no point of reference. Are you on the Westside giving your first hand account. It needs a point of reference. "east" gave it that

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We would say the factories themselves were American, because they would be. At any rate, I removed the word "American" which seems to be your biggest concern. Please continue any further discussion on the article talk page so others can see

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for 14 hours. When Yworo returned, the IP hopper solicited Irolnire to instigate harassment against the user, resulting in another immediate violation of the non-interaction agreement and Irolnire was blocked. That eventually resulted in a

1414:, which is also very common in English now, official and media, the diacriticals are not used. That was the point of my CfD in the first place; the old diacriticalized form even include special t-apostrophe characters, not "t"+"'"..... 857: 649: 248:

Yes, I was asking about the IP hopper who stalked Yworo and had some issues with him in the past and how to deal with that since the IP hopper is community banned. Banned edits, good or bad, can be reverted. Thanks,

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don't worry, the admin action has been done, undone, redone already. If you want to weigh in at move review feel free but no other admin action is needed for Now - sorry should have struck the request above. Best

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neutral leaning overturn and George Ho's unclear comments that seem to lean endorse. This is hardly a strong consensus to overturn the last decision and the article's status quo. Again, I stand by my decision.--

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about an appeal of a ban, the place to do it would be AN. If they just want to present evidence of a violation, they can bring it to an admin; I'd be happy to have a look. Is this the info you're looking for?--

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ANI, to the best of my knowledge. A community ban prevents all participation, other than to appeal the ban. If someone is community banned and they are editing, then I would recommend either

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time, I'm increasingly of the opinion that "British language" really ought to be a dab page. As for prevalence, well, "Brittonic" seems to have the edge in the sources discussed in the RM.--

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may have considered if we hadn't just gone through several months of discussion already. I think it's time for a breather on this one, you can start another RM down the road if you wish.--

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I have responded at the article talk page. The brewery itself is in the US, no matter who owns it. My updates to the article already make clear that it is owned by a Costa Rican company.--

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still continue to use it. It's quarter after ten pm now, the beer I bought for my friends who are departing is getting warm (it's 37 degrees here, despite it being dark). Back tomorrow.

1565: 2938:), hence my move and subsequent RM nomination. As you can see, my opinion is that this name is more common in the sources and much less confusing to readers. I hope that's helpful.-- 1988:

didn't understand what "no consensus" means. Overturning a closure requires clear consensus to do so, and that doesn't exist here without parsing it into oblivion. Time to move on.--

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At this point I think the terms "First Coast" and "Northeast Florida" increasingly describe the same area. Again, however, without sources this isn't something that can be added.--

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And I still see no evidence that the name "Brittonic language" is more common in the sources than "British language", and my opinion is that naming it "Brittonic language" will

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costa rican. To make another analogy we don't claim that Honda is an american car manufacturer because it makes the cars in the USA.... Also the beer itself links to this page.

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Right on, thanks. Because of my relationship to the subject, I won't be the one to make the edits myself. However, I'd also reached out to another editor at the same time (

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stumbling across this article and finding it's about a different topic than the title would have led them to believe. That probably happens to people who stumble across

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on Monday, 1 July, as the default editor. For those of us who prefer markup editing, fear not; we'll still be able to use the markup editor, which isn't going anywhere.

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Hi, I just closed an RM at Hillary Clinton, but realized after the fact that the redirect is locked so I can't tag it for deletion. Would you mind enacting this move?

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the CfR had been closed but it's still open. Again, the undiacriticalized form is the standard in Canadian English now; the diacriticalized form is not, though it

2926::While there hadn't been any previous RM for any of the moves, there have been several discussions (especially since 2010) and they appeared to favor "Brittonic" ( 3444: 2536: 2182:

where I have explained my concerns with the current version and provided a link to the draft in my user space. Please take a look if you are interested. Cheers,

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Noting it was you who closed the Lillooet/St'at'imc RM, is it viable that you can close the St'at'imc CfR? That was basically hinged on the result of that RM..

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Sorry, I was mostly inaccessible this weekend. From what I'm seeing this certainly looks like it could be a sock of Kauffner; I'll look into it more today.--

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and a few other sources, and I got sidetracked and forgot about it. I'm afraid I don't have much to add at this point, but I will gladly help out as I can.--

2904:; at that point the dab page was moved to "British language (disambiguation)" (without discussion) and the language article was moved to "British language". 2630: 2518: 1512:

Gotcha. In any event, I'd rather leave CsD closings to someone with more experience, though it may be worth noting that the main article has been moved.--

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As it developed, it came to be about the wider language branch. Following the creation of a separate article for the original language, it was renamed

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in the move discussion. If Angr and Cuchullain could reach an agreement here, it might be possible to wind up the move discussion with a compromise.

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Overturning to no consensus would have a different result. In the wake of such controversy, surely we should be reverting to what our guidelines on

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After that the article didn't move until June, though it has caused quite a bit of confusion as can be told from the talk page and ÓCorcráin's move.

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and note recent undos/reversions on the template. I'm of the same opinion as you on the matter, noting your previous responses on the talkpage.

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more common and haven't seen any evidence to the contrary, I think that may be a workable title for this topic if we're still at a stalemate.--

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I now have access to more of my library following a recent move. So far I've found several relevant sources. The following use "Brittonic":

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back per the deadmau5 discussion without a separate RM? I'm asking this because it isn't an analogous case (applies to another part of

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I don't really know how to close move reviews, but I'll have a look and see what I can do. I think this process is seriously broken.--

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Reading through the move review once again, I think you have made the wrong call - there does seem to be consensus to overturn. And

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from the family branch. Might be a good idea to copy this thread into the RM discussion for the benefit of future move requesters.

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find this pretty awesome, and from Monday it's going to be heavily used, since, as said, the VisualEditor will become the default.

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at lovely Pompano Beach Pier, on this Saturday June 22! We would love to see you there, so sign up and bring something fun for the

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looking for information about the language of Shakespeare, but I would not say user search patterns should dictate a move to

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if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the

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if it got over 5,000. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the

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As usual, what we'd need are sources. We have two good ones for "First Coast" (the Lamme and Oldakowski paper and Calnan's

1444:. Adjourning for the night, it's 10pm...but somebody is moving the goalposts and starting the game over and it's really.... 1146: 124: 2622: 1821: 1721: 2648:

So, as you know (or should know - we sent out a centralnotice and several watchlist notices) we're planning to deploy the

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irritating. The undiacriticalized forms are dmonstrably standard English in Canada now. The use of the diacriticals are

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arguments. We need to revert to policy and guidelines here. I think we're going to need a second opinion on this... --

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I'm counting 6 overturns, 2 endorse, and a couple of overturn to no consensus (and I'm not sure what George means!). --

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case, and may require nothing less than a qualitative study of scholarly sources), and the latter indicates stability.

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I don't have much experience with CfDs, I'm afraid. Whatever is done with the category, should the article be moved to

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by Rembert W. Patrick (1954), I was looking into writing an article about the Patriot War. There are reserve copies of

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But east of what? I was using the same point of reference as the others (downtown, which is how the term originates).

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Wilhelm, thanks for the suggestion. I copied this thread over to the RM and put it in a collapse box at the bottom.

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in one library, which I have reserved, but it appears to be missing. There also appear to be downloadable copies of

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Thanks for reverting the IPs at Hajiri's page. I wanted to let you know that I have filed a protection request at

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Don't know what's happened there, looks like someone has speedied the category back to the diacriticalized form

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seen in some publications; but not in media or official usage. The diacriticalized form is also used by only

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Well thank you! I hope to work on articles for all of Jacksonville's urban core neighborhoods at some point.--

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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Knowledge appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited

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Hi. Thank you for your recent edits. Knowledge appreciates your help. We noticed though that when you edited

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