Template talk:Infobox person/Archive 29

2669:(e.g. a child actor or a royal), a name change in childhood doesn't rise to infobox-level importance at all for an adult Knowledge bio subject. A construction like this, when both names are useful to mention, is fine for males whose names changed at marriage, or who were notable under one name before and another after marriage even if the change wasn't marriage-related but coincidental. The fact that this situation arises (in Western countries, anyway) more often for women than men is a fact of the real world, not some Knowledge bias. Few men change their name upon marriage and even when they do it's usually, along with their partner, to a combination, often hyphenated, of both their surnames. A construction like that illustrated for Bush above would be redundant in Ms. Clinton's case. That's why I switched to a non-Clinton example: Using " 4677:

uncited info in a BLP that has been challenged. If it is cited, then if it is in a reasonably widely viewed non-paywall web site, say in the top 30-40 google results on a search for the subject, or in a print publication with national distribution, or otherwise reasonably qualifying as widely read (but not a weekly home-town newspaper, say), then it could be included. It could also be included on Knowledge if it have been included in even one interview, or on the subject's web site, or other source under the subjects control or indicating the subject's permission or agreement to publicize this data. That is just my view, but I think it conforms with the views expressed at

2852:: For obvious reasons, this is something that has to be considered on a case-by-case basis. I'm more inclined to generally support the combined approach, wherein current and birth names are presented simultaneously, however this cannot be applied to all articles. Cultural, temporal and familial circumstances need to be taken into account, and at the same time infoboxes need to provide accurate and current information. As such, married women that have adopted their husband's surname and remain married, should have that information reflected, but for the reader's sake their birth names should concomitantly be presented; we are after all an encyclopaedia. Cheers, 2119:. Per Winkelvi's logic. And that is right, Hillary did not change her name at marriage, and when she started using Clinton for Arkansan political reasons it was Hillary Rodham Clinton, which it remained and still is. For these infoboxes overall, including when a woman does take on her husband's name, I think we should go with the birthname or any other name that the spouse was using at the time of the marriage - so I would advise Nancy Davis for Reagan's page, not Anne Frances Robbins, her birthname - he married Nancy Davis. And not Nancy Reagan.) 31: 1584:"Do not use all these parameters for any one person. The list is long to cover a wide range of people. Only use those parameters that convey essential or notable information about the subject." Why do we have parameters that we shouldn't use. Can someone give me an example of fields that can be filled, but should not be filled because they do not "convey essential or notable information". Or should it be read as "You do not have to use all the parameters for any one person." -- 2221:- See my discussion prior to the RfC. To me, the current name should be used as the parameter is the name of the spouse, not the name of the person prior to their marriage. To me as a reader, it is confusing the see "Hillary Rodhamn" as Bill Clinton's spouse when I know her name is Hillary Clinton. For individuals I am less familiar with, it would be even more confusing and requires that I mouse-over the link to see the person's common name. 7762: 7708: 7334: 6875: 572:"People who hold to atheism, in effect, hold to a faith that maintains that...." I really wish people would stop using this broad brush in an attempt to pigeonhole the many different people that are atheists. It can certainly be possible to be an atheist and not hold any such belief or any faith or "maintain" anything whatsoever. Which brings us to the same conclusion, removal of a profoundly misunderstood word from infoboxes. 2200:, though I'm not sure what is being discussed. If we're talking about the surnames of women when they married, I support supplying the woman's surname, which is not the post-marriage name, assuming she changed it. But I think in general these issues are best left to the editors on the page, because there may be complicating factors, such as several previous marriages and name changes. One size won't fit all. 2665:(formerly Blythe)", if editors thought his former surname was relevant in the context (e.g. in Hillary Clinton's infobox). Usefulness seems unlikely in Bill Clinton's particular case, unless he had a notable career under the name Blythe before he changed it. I just looked it up, and he's used "Clinton" since ca. age 4, and legally changed it at age 15. So, no one cares. Unless maybe a child were notable 4478:" as a positive statement, before mention of objections from the subject. I take this as a policy statement that such info should not be 9included in BLPs unless so sourced. I will routinely remove unsourced exact dates of birth, and cut them back to the year only. If they are sourced but to an obscure source not obviously approved by the subject, i will either do the same or tag for later removal. 278:. Having belatedly read that discussion, I think the arguments for keeping the agent parameter boil down to (A) the Netoholic / DHeyward points: if the agent is notable then the relationship must be notable, (B) Andy Mabbett / Damotclese points: any data is likely to be of interest / more information is better, and (C) Andy Mabbett 2nd point: naming an agent doesn't provide "a means of contact". 7406: 7071: 5906:- "Officer" and "Commander" respectively. In human-written infoboxes these titles would be be redirected to to the article on the Order of the British Empire becuase EN.WP does not have a standalone article about those concepts. HOWEVER, because Wikidata has a specific item for each of these levels of the Order of the British Empire, the infobox links to the Wikidata item 2376:- if the label was 'Married' then the pre-marriage name would be best; however it isn't, so the reader will just have to read the text, follow links or check references if the want to know the spouse's other names. Generally I think the spouse has the right to choose how he or she is referred to, and when deceased, the most commonly known name would be best. Consider 2869:: I can't support any of the above options, because I think that an overriding factor should be the article title for any notable spouse. We go to great lengths to ensure that Knowledge biographies are at the best article title for the readers and I can see no reason to re-litigate the issue within an infobox. If our article about Bill Clinton's wife is titled 4883:, to name but two cases where I have repeatedly seen people use the full names hypercorrectly (tipping over in their efforts to be correct). Under "birth name", different things can be understood in different naming traditions, e.g. a married woman's name before marriage. It could also differ for other reasons from the full name later in life. 3351:- it should be decided on a case by case basis whether "Works" or "Notable works" is more appropriate, but the infobox set-up should have both to choose from. "Works" with a link to the complete list would be appropriate in the case of very prolific artists (like Beethoven), while "Notable work(s)" would work fine for, let's say, 4693:

as answers.com that quite probably took their data from the IMDB entry or from this article. Eckhart's web site doesn't seem to have a bio section, nor does it mention his DOB. No interview with Eckhart that I could find mentions it. In short I find no RS for this factoid at all. If anyone has a source, please provide it.

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them. So if a reliable source says what the person wants to be called then that should be used. I don't think it would be a good method to grab a snapshot of peoples name in time. How would we source names if there were multiple marriages? Would users be able to understand that that person does not use that name?

7235:, who was an architect. However, the architect infobox didn't allow for some parameters, for instance, style and family. The architect infobox is supposed to work with all infobox person parameters. Can it either be made available as a module, or else all infobox person parameters be made accessible through it?-- 1548:

doing it my way" argument, it would be a lot more constructive to provide a reason why doing it your way would be an improvement, Alakzi. That said, it's unfair of parsers of guidelines to tell him to stop parsing guidelines. I also have to note that BRD is an essay, which was recently savaged pretty hard at

1729:. There is no such guidelines for this format on this or any other related infobox. If anyone knows of past discussion where this pattern was decided by consensus, can you please point it to me? If so, the infobox template pages should be updated to reflect this. Or is this an informal rule of some manner? 1552:; Wikipedian faith in BRD as a "standard" process rather than as something that works for only some editors in some situations, is at an all-time low. So, again, let's focus on the relative merits of "put this parameter's output here" vs. "put it there", instead of who's wikilawyering is better-disguised. 6085:

One of the problems that this introduced was that, due to conflicting data about her birthdate, BOTH dates are included, comma separated. Both of these dates have reliable sources to reference them in Wikidata, but one is considered more commonly accepted and therefore I have marked it in Wikidata as

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Notice {{{burial_coordinates}}}, complete with computerese triple brackets and underscore, and presumably a software error. It goes away by removing the "burial place" parameter but not by changing it. Further experimenting is discouraged because I tried inserting "| burial_place = Marysville" into

4692:

I have reverted the addition of IMDB as a source for the DOB (although I have not removed the DOB itself), because it isn't a reliable source for such data, as I said above. I searched for such a source, and the only thing I found was the IMDB, this Knowledge article, and unreliable aggregators such

2885:

because we've already agreed that it is how that individual is best known. The apparent lack of consistency is caused by a lack of consistency in how the public expects to see those spouses' names. The principle of least surprise is important for our readers and shouldn't be discounted lightly. Once

852:

I think it'd be helpful to specify that this param should only be used when there is a clearly defined, sourced cause of death (heart attack, stroke, cancer, etc.). "Natural causes"/"illness"/"undisclosed causes"/"old age" and other terms of the same sort are vague and don't tell the reader anything

7511:

The problem existed because we want to specify date formats as dmy or mdy, and that forced the display of day, month, year, even when the stored value in Wikidata only has precision of year (Wikidata always stores complete timestamps - like "+1884-01-01T00:00:00Z" for Ali Aaltonen's date of birth).

6778:

You seem to be under a misapprehension about how the parameters work. The infobox works perfectly well if no burial coordinates are supplied. However, if burial coordinates are supplied, then they are used, despite you thinking they are "cruft". If you want to get rid of them, then start an RfC and

6380:

They appear in the order in which they were inserted; the template doesn't to any auto-sorting. Birth order is a matter of a few minutes, and irrelevant. I think they were put in that order because that's the order they appear in the photo, and native readers of English and other Western languages

4725:

Nikki is absolutely right. IMDB is made up of user-generated content and therefore we cannot accept it as a reliable source. We might as well accept Knowledge as an RS, because the same person could make fallacious edits to both. The same principle applies to blogs and forums, unless the author can

4475:

With identity theft a serious ongoing concern, people increasingly regard their full names and dates of birth as private. Knowledge includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred

2484:

My support does not clearly line up with the choices given. Current name for Hillary seems to be Hillary Rodham, that is what she has always wanted to be called from what I can tell. So my support is for the name that the person currently wants to be called in addition to what reliable sources call

1810:

I am reluctant to give you feedback on something like this. I predict that if you start making mass changes either way you are going to encounter a lot of resistance from people who object to such changes being made without them been notified of this discussion on the pages affected. You might want

1633:

The difference between "Do not use all these parameters for any one person" and "You do not have to use all the parameters for any one person" is that the former assumes there is unlikely to be any case where every single parameter could reasonably be used for the same bio subject, while the latter

868:

I would further restrict the parameter to those cases where the cause of death is part of the person's fame, for instance a notable accident, a military event, a murder, a suicide, etc. If the person is famous for other things, and died as a matter of course, then the parameter should remain empty.

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included, have described themselves as agnostic. He indicated ".. my judgment often fluctuates. Moreover whether a man deserves to be called a theist depends on the definition of the term: which is much too large a subject for a note. In my most extreme fluctuations I have never been an atheist in

6000:

If we want linked data to display differently from the article title on en-wp, then we probably have to use a local value to override the value on Wikidata, because it's almost impossible for a module to second-guess what text the editor wishes to be displayed in a particular case. For example, we

5627:

makes a lot of sense as you point out. Unless we get any serious objections by tomorrow evening (to give all time zones a chance to comment), I'll implement the addition then to the template proper, and update the documentation. It won't affect any existing articles, of course, until editors start

4530:

I just restored one, it is silly to remove an actor's DOB when it is published in IMDB. If you require a reference, why don't you add a reference, instead of deleting because none is there? My guess is about 50% of all of Knowledge would be deleted if we deleted any paragraph that did not a have a

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pair would have indeterminate values for the key. At present, such tools can read information from the infobox template (or preferably its documentation) and then can recognise in each article that the location following the labels "Resting place" and "Burial place" will represent the same thing.

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That censorship only applies "If the subject complains about the inclusion of the date of birth, or the person is borderline notable." I would suggest that if a subject is only borderline notable then perhaps they shouldn't be here at all. In any case, it's a vague term that's not defined or even

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I came to look at closing this but there doesn't seem to be consensus and one should be sought. My preference is for CommonName, followed by (then FormerName) if different and in very rare circumstances (now CurrentName) where it differs from the other two and is relevant but that last, as I say,

2306:

Yes, I know, but nothing in that naming decision indicated that we need to change references to her actual name elsewhere in the encyclopedia. Still prefer using Hillary Rodham in BIll's infobox, as that was her name pre-marriage, and post-marriage for some years as well. So at what point in her

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for the spouse field in the Infobox; this would be equivalent to the Article title for that spouse, where we have an article on them. I see no great benefit in using the pre-marriage name where it is not the common name; as this may not be recognisable to the reader, and is available on the first

1547:

I tend to agree with Frietjes' diligence in looking at past discussions; I don't see the same diligence from Alakzi, nor any rationale for why his preferences should override previous consensus discussions (even if consensus can change). Instead of this kind of "you have no right to keep me from

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People who hold to atheism, in effect, hold to a faith that maintains that, in some way, reality was able to come into its current state of existence without the divine intervention of a g/God. This belief cannot, of course, be fully substantiated and yet this faith has many notable adherents.

4681:. Like many other Knowledge inclusion standards, it is to some extent a judgement call, but I don't think I'm being unreasonable about it. Cite even one RS that confirms the IMDB date (which wasn't cited in the article anyway) and I will drop all objections. Nor will I edit war over the matter. 257:

Agreed. There's no excuse for including an agent's name other than promotion. We don't included their hairdresser, driver, or poolboy - so why agent. I've noticed the few times that I have removed an agent listing, the info was replaced by someone who suspiciously only made that edit on several

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mentioned, which would make a mention of the date also logical if the subject wished to do so. I would say such a fact could be included if it is, first of all, supported by a reliable source cited in the article. Without this, the question of "widely published" doesn't even arise, it is simply

4374:. When encyclopedias and reference books for hundreds of years have included birth dates and full names as a matter of standard biographical course, the idea of censoring such information that's already available publicly means that we need to rethink if we're a true encyclopedia or a glorified 3881:

objection to the move, and b) an alleged technical problem of nowhere to logically put the alternative name. But there is no technical problem. Just abstract this: The article is at "Foo" and this is a name by which the subject is known (sans any disambiguators like "(actress") of course). The

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Wikidata "preferred" and "deprecated" ranks might be used for such a purpose --management of data displayed on Knowledge pages-- only when all-language Knowledge who use WD data in similar fashion agree on which value they prefer to display, and when such use doesn't interfere with the primary

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I would support removing the religion parameter altogether from people infoboxes. Where a person's religion is key part of their identity/notability, the religious affiliation would be described and covered in other parameters. In a world where people are STILL being KILLED for their religious

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be any better? Whatever label is chosen, we can document its intended use, so that there's no confusion between time and place. I can see a possible reasoning why we might prefer "burial place" because of its unambiguity, but as any new user will have to look at the documentation to find the

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The last edit should be reverted. I'm not sure about other browsers - but on Safari it's causing the template to return: "Script error: The module returned a value. It is supposed to return an export table. Script error: The module returned a value. It is supposed to return an export table."

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just a small suggestion to substitute SUBPAGENAME for PAGENAME as the default 'name' in the infobox Title field. It won't effect any use of the template where it is used on a standard Knowledge page, or any time a name is actually manually entered in the infobox. But any time it is used in a

814:) attempts to sum up thousands of subjects' "philosophies" in ill-defined ways in the new parameter, that might relate to anything from politics to cheerfulness; we wouldn't want that, only a way to include positions on faith, humanism, etc., that cannot rightly be classified as "religion". 6093:

I propose that when there are multiple statements in a single property, and that ONE of those statements has a higher RANK (either by it being "preferred" or the others being "depreciated"), the ONLY statement should be shown. Can this be done, technically speaking, within this template?

2139:. The reasons above are good ones, and there is also the added benefit of succinctly communicating extra information. I think we can trust our readers to deduce that possibly a wife might take her husband's name; that when Jane Doe married John Smith, she might now be known as Jane Smith. 4413:

is a better place to discuss the idea of tightening this to specifics; no decision made on a template talk page is really going to be relevant, since infoboxes are just summaries of information presented in the main article content . The most obvious approach to this is that if reliable

4310:

What exactly is the definition of widely published? How do you define that? WP is an encyclopedia, I don't see why the birth date of someone notable would need to be hidden. Nor should we concern ourselves with publishing information with the "approval" of anyone. We're not a PR agency.

2107:, where there is already an existing discussion, specifically about the use of the name Hillary Rodham as Clinton's spouse in the infobox, and specifically about U.S. presidential spouses. Please either bring it back there from the Rfc link, or make it part of this discussion. Thanks. 1304:

that I had satisfied Frietjes with my answer. What this calls for is for you to stop wasting my time with policy-waving. Moving a field two spots up is hardly of any consequence. A note of this change has been made, and if anybody raises an objection, it can be undone at any time. It

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we resolve virtually all such problems. The rationale for name details like this isn't to stuff name-change trivia into infoboxes, it's to be informative about name changes that actually matter to readers. To get to your questions and points: It certainly would also be fine to use

7562:. Thanks anyway for bringing it up, the module needed the fix. I can see that the old article now manages to automatically display the full date of death and just the year of birth, so that's progress. To add the source on Wikidata, it needs to be a Wikidata item, so I've created 136:

I thought the RFC above was only about including it on people who don't identify with a religion or who aren't notable for their religious beliefs. At any rate; it's still listed as an optional parameter on the template page. Does anyone have any idea why it's not showing up? ~

2464:- this is who their spouse is/was. The purpose of the infobox spouse is not to say "X married Y" it is to say, "X is married to Y" or "X WAS married to Y." In the text of the biography, yes, you would write, "Ronald Reagan married Nancy Davis" or "married Nancy (née Davis)" etc. 2656:(the word is very familiar to me from genealogy, so it didn't occur to me immediately is might not work for everyone.) To restate the original point, if we want to do this but one option is confusing, and the other misleading, then avoid both problems by writing more clearly. 5543:. Obviously that's only suitable when a person is buried (rather than placed in a mausoleum, put on display in the Kremlin, etc.), but it gives an option to those that think the label "Resting place" is an unnecessary euphemism for someone who is actually buried. It works at 1510:

I am waiting. I've been waiting for 24 hours now, and all of the arguments have been about my behaviour. Do you have anything of substance to add to the discussion? I imagine I'll be vindicated in the end, but not before we'll have wasted a couple more days on wikilawyering.

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I do not think so. The section "When to seek discussion for template changes" explains when to seek consensus first. Eg. "Visual layout changes that are minor but still noticeable, e.g. swapping the order of a few parameters in an infobox, or slightly tweaking something's

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policy, specifically para 5 that mentions "External links to commercial organizations are acceptable if they identify notable organizations which are the topic of the article". I think by definition that agents are not the topic of articles on actors, musicians etc.

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I tried to add the "honorific suffix" property to her wikidata item, with the value "OBE", but that instead went to the wikidata ITEM for "Order of the British Empire" - which isn't the suffix acronym, but the award which the acronym represents! (see what I mean?).

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Balderdash. There is no bare minimum; Frietjes had been active during that time. Nobody's obligated to template anybody, and I do not need to be reminded about 3RR or BRD, which I followed to the letter. Now, please find somebody else to tag team against, because

1852:. I suspect I will change a few, people will engage in discussion, and perhaps an RfC on the issue if this has indeed not been discussed in the past. Perhaps I should put a few messages on a the article talk pages of the ones I linked above to spur discussion? 4504:

Yes, very seriously. Just as I would remove any other uncited content. Currently I am doing so only when I happen to edit an article on other matters. I am (slowly, and in between other tasks) compiling evidence to support a bot application to do so using AWB.

5787:"Resting place is not a euphemism"? Great, then I suggest we occasionally dig up our dead friends and relatives to find out how their "rest" is going. C'mon, "resting place" is completely euphemistic, no one is "resting" while awaiting resurrection, they are 2447:

Benefits of using the WP:COMMONNAME include: likely to be understood/recognised by readers; well understood & well tested process; decision is made once (at the Article for the spouse); provides flexibility for unusual cases; relies on reliable sources. -

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One thing that emerges from the RfC above, firmly against output like "Religion: None", "Religion: Atheist", "Religion: Agnostic", or "Religion: Secular humanist", was that a noteworthy number of respondents feel that, for a particular class of subject who

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published already, or has clearly been published with the approval of the person. Many editors seem to be automaically following this documetation and insertig full dates of birth where they should not. I have now included a warning about this in the doc

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using name the spouse uses while married. Barack Obama's spouse, for example, is not known as Michelle Robinson because she uses her husband's surname. Would you expect a reliable source to say he is married to Michelle Robinson? No, because he's not.

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The change (if there was one) should be findable in edit history, and if there was discussion about it, it should be in the archives. Anyway, I don't see a reason to not recommend that template, but maybe there is a technical one I don't know about?

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I'm sure that I'll use this often to compare data on Wikpedia with that from Wikidata, so thank you for your efforts. I've made a slight tweak to vertically-align the tops of the two boxes - feel free to revert if you don't thinks it's a help. Cheers

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The infobox now presents systemic bias in that it is permitted to present a person's belief in, for instance, an interventionist g/God but it precludes belief that reality (which on close inspection involves the existence of an, arguably, profoundly

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Do we at EN.wiki now generally (not experiment, test, sandbox, whatever) make any use of WD preferred and deprecated rank now? Our Authority control template, if i understand correctly, displays the first of multiple LCCN that may be stated at WD.

2080:. Makes sense, which is good enough for me. He didn't marry Hillary Clinton, he married Hillary Rodham. Further, from what I understand, she didn't change her surname to Clinton for a considerable amount of time after they were married. -- 5677:

that the label "resting place" is euphemistic. I should add that I'm not proposing to remove "resting place" or change it, I'm proposing we give editors the choice of displaying the label as either "resting place" or something like "buried".

373:' – Also doesn't work. Not all information is encyclopedically noteworthy, and very, very little of it is crucial enough to add to the infobox. One of innumerable professional relationships in a notable person's life is not magically special. 1128:

I did account for that. His concern was that "when someone uses the modules to embed other subboxes in this one, then the website appears as though it is part of the box above" - which is to say, it is only an issue if the URL is both (a)

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will generally return only the preferred values from Wikidata, where multiple ranks exist. This is because the function normally used in the module, mw.wikibase.entity:formatPropertyValues(), returns only the best claims by default - see

1282:. As you can see from the RfC above (regarding religion), there are many issues involved in making decisions. This calls for a civil, rational and policy/guideline discussions involving interested parties in the Knowledge community. -- 797:

as the "canonical" example, pun intended), there should be some way of getting this across in the infobox. The obvious way to do this seems, to me, to change the "Religion:" header to "Philosophy:", with a switching parameter, e.g.

2978:

I too came to try to close but don't see any consensus. At any rate, I think this should be done on a case-by-case basis. Obviously Nancy Reagan makes sense as no one has heard of Nancy Robbins. But other cases will be different.

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If there has not been discussion on this yet, I would like to begin some here. Personally I don't see much reason to use the pre-marriage name of the spouse if the common name and/or article title is the post-marriage name.

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Does that answer your question, or are you looking for examples of where this happens in an infobox? I don't know of any way of answering the latter, other than just looking at articles containing templates in the category

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to always allow a locally supplied parameter value to be displayed in preference to whatever Wikidata would supply, so if you have a case where that isn't happening, please give me an example and I'll do my best to fix it.

195:, this has happened to me when I added on a field I did not realize was already on there (but blank). If a field is there twice and the higher one is blank, it will show it blank. It drove me insane until I figured it out. 1363:. The bare minimum should be 24 hours, and I highly recommend waiting until three days go by without any response before re-reverting. People need sleep, have jobs, etc. and may take a day or two to get back to you. -- 960:

that are virtually impossible to patrol for relevance (anyone may say their influences were A, B, and C in one interview, in one context and frame of mind, and give completely different X, Y, and Z examples in another.

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violations. Furthermore, I'm sceptical that editors should micromanage elements of the infobox design on a per-article basis. If colouring the title's background is shown to be superior, it should be made the default.

246:

This has been discussed before (if anyone can find links to those discussions that would be great) and the current consensus is that they do not belong in the infobox. Your reasoning is one of several factors why.

5646:

I think adding "burial" is not a good idea. because it doesn't make clear if it is a parameter for a time or a place. For that reason I prefer the unambiguous "resting place". Or "place of burial" / "burial

3147:- the cite web template also seems corrupted. (the same message as reprinted above is printed in lieu of actual references) However, the cite web template works on other pages that don't have this infobox.-- 2681:

in English is almost exclusively in relation to pre-marriage names; it doesn't matter what the original French meaning and usage are (innumerable loanwords like this shift after borrowing). The male form is

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be accompanied by a variety of other beliefs or views. But the term by itself in no way indicates faith. In general it's the acknowledgement that yes, we exist, without any need to have faith in a being who

5672:

I think you're confusing the parameter name with the label it produces in the infobox. The label is quite clearly article text and it cannot be said that WP:EUPHEMISM doesn't apply to it. That's why people

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overrides many generalities to protect the interests of living subjects, and what is says is closer to non-negotiable than just about anything on the system, other than legal commandments given to us from

2500: 4920: 4895: 1687:

This was a rather well laid out RFC, but there is no consensus in this RFC, the discussion is to evenly split. I have included the pre discussion in the RFC and so I am boxing it as well to archive it.

525:

the sense of denying the existence of a God.— I think that generally (& more and more so as I grow older) but not always, that an agnostic would be the most correct description of my state of mind."

7175:

Nice, this is clearly the correct solution for this particular case and others like it. General rule: for the "known_for" parameter, use the activity itself instead of a role defined by that activity.

6718:(i.e. use the parameter if supplied, otherwise use blank). Now fixed, I hope - the article pages just need to be purged to get past the caching. Ping me if there are any outstanding problems. Cheers -- 4867:

Many people have more than one given name, and outside the USA, they need not almost always be one or conventionally given as a middle initial. They also need not normally be used at all. For example,

5430:, so that all name parameters are grouped together. I have provided examples of the current layout and suggested layout, with the name-related parameters highlighted. Any comments for or against? -- 3882:

subject is also known as "Bar". As long as both of these are true, it will always be the case that the main name in the infobox can be Foo, and that Bar will work in the other_names parameter. (It's

915:

In the artist infobox, these two categories are not linked to anything. In other words, no matter what you type in, it does not show up in the article infobox. Can someone fix this please? Thanks --

4646:. Define it so that I will recognize it every time. My definition: If it is on the Internet it is widely published, if it is in a pay database, it NOT widely published. You seem to interpret it as 4540: 5650:

Also, by the way, WP:EUPHEMISM applies to articles, not template parameters. It is not the reason I think we should keep "resting place", but it is a reason not to say that it must be changed.

4886:

For both of these reasons, an item for "full name" would be a worthwhile addition or replacement, and the instruction about middle initial could perhaps receive an addition "where applicable".

4668:

source cited in the relevant section of the article, and because, as an interview, a mention would indicate the subject's willingness to have this information public, and because the subject's

133:

So I'm creating an article about a Roman Catholic Priest from the 1800s. I think the religion parameter is relevant for his infobox. I've added it to the infobox, but it's not showing up.

7541:

identifies Aaltonen's DOD as August 1918. I've added that to Wikidata (although for some reason it didn't allow me to add the source...), but the old article now shows DOD as "31 July 1918".

4925: 4678: 1593: 5913:

I propose that when there is a REDIRECT in place for the precise word(s) of the wikidata item being linked to, that the template accept it, and link the words to that redirect on the wiki.

331:. It currently says "The subject's agent (individual and/or agency), if relevant". I'd replace "if relevant" with "discouraged in most cases, specifically when promotional, and requiring a 2886:

the notable spouses are accounted for, there's probably little argument left about how to display non-notable spouses and what's most commonly used in reliable sources would do for me. --

2004:

This RfC asks the community for input on how spouse names should be displayed in the infoboxes on biography articles. A discussion about this occurred previously and can be seen above.

7920:

Unfortunately, I've been trying this for several minutes and I don't see what I've been doing wrong. (I haven't clicked 'save' yet, though.) Could one of you take over for me? Thanks.

1803: 5889: 4967: 7496:) give the dates as simply 1884 and 1918. The template appears to be deriving specific dates from this year-only source, and it should not do that when the exact dates are unknown. 6065: 5844:

That's not so easy to accomplish when the label can be anything. It's not impossible to work around, but my preference is always to keep things as simple as I can get away with. --

2784:

I chose this as the venue for the RfC because it is not specific to Bill Clinton. This would affect all biographies. Bill Clinton is just where someone objected to it. The actual "

7993:

It's also worth remembering that 99% of our readers are served the cached version of a page. Generally nothing is recalculated by the server until changes are made to the page. --

2766: 2588: 3458:. It displays a dual infobox during preview in Source Editor, it does not affect VisualEditor, there is no harm at all if it stays saved inside an article. Just keep it updated, 2253:

Except it's more complicated than that because in fact her name is Hillary Rodham Clinton, not Hillary Clinton. So I weighed in above in support of using the pre-marriage name.

6173:

was made to be a proof-of-concept example of fetching some of the subject's information from Wikidata. I think we'd need quite considerable discussion here before we could make

5920: 2307:

name usage do you determine what's right for the infobox? Hillary Rodham, Hillary Rodham Clinton, Hillary Clinton? Simpler, isn't it, to use the name she had when they married?

1626: 1167:

If you don't actually object to it, there's no point in reverting. Knowledge is not your battleground, nor is it a bureaucracy; if there are subsequent objections, the edit can

6101: 1714:

or similar templates have the spouse's name before marriage despite article titles being the married name. This does not seem to occur on all pages, but it occurs often (e.g.,

1655: 7390: 6245:) has two values for its population (P1082): 195,393 (preferred rank) and 189,033 (normal rank). If we fetch the data using Module:Wikidata, we just get the preferred value: 5495: 4344:. According to the document header, a template message, "This page documents an English Knowledge policy, a widely accepted standard that all editors should normally follow." 7664:

in way that suggests they do not know the distinction. Therefore in the explanation box I request that either (a) a definition be added or (b) an example(s) usage be given.

7512:

I've added a test to the module that explicitly changes the date format to y (just year) when the stored precision in Wikidata is 9 (which indicates precision is year). The

4659: 4578: 4554: 4525: 2616:? We're used to dealing with only women having names changed, but some men change theirs and some folks had their names changed prior to marriage (like Bill Clinton). Since 736:

userspace draft or sandbox it currently includes all the 'userspace' and 'sandbox' gubbins in the Title which is a bit distracting. Well, it's written now... don't shout! -

7821:

says that her age at death was "0". She was a month old, that's not "0". Are there parameters which can be added / adjusted to show her age in terms of months and/or days?

4594:

I assume the comment "born December 9, 1962 in Switzerland) If it appears in IMDB there is no need to remove it here, I know this is a crusade for you" was directed at me,

6934: 5720:

I concede your point: editors often copy existing instances and may guess at the meaning of a parameter without looking at the documentation. I'll make the addition using

910: 7961: 7947: 4433: 4274: 7324: 6865: 6493:

I'd like to see this added to infoboxes for people. It could certainly be an optional parameter, and perhaps the parameter can still be filled, but optionally shown. -

7864: 7807: 7260: 5619:. It's actually trivial to change the label (and the parameter name if desired) as the logic is now in place. I'm just watching this discussion as well as the ones at 3152: 3133: 2900:

The simple solution, then, to satisfy both the needs of readers' COMMONNAME expectations, and the encyclopedic expectation of avoiding absurd anachronisms, is to use "

1579: 924: 806:, and it's factually wrong to label an adherent to the former with "Religion: Taoism". I'd propose this as a change to the existing parameter because simply adding a 7045: 4785:

edit from May 2012, User:SMcCandlish made a change to the instructions for website which I have now undone. His 2 additions to the instructions are counterintuitive,

3054:

Actually I've reverted myself. What I'm trying to achieve is the option of having the name inside or over the box, and the option of adding colour, per {{|Infobox}}.

2988: 1461:

part of the page, a part which is prefixed with: "This is a rough guide, and is in no way an excuse for not using common sense". Do you have any objections as to the

7226: 5867: 5577: 4900:

Also, some of the birth names (as in the birth certificate or the like) may be in a different language than the ones actually used, as in W. A. Mozart's case (Greek

7986: 7929: 7915: 3156: 7643: 7629: 5499: 4586: 6554: 5834: 2861: 7754: 6569: 6090:. In some properties we do want to show multiple statements if they exist (e.g. "spouse" or "awards" etc.), but not for things like date/place of birth/death. 4511: 4499: 3512: 3082: 3060: 3043: 3032: 1993: 1925: 1793: 7570:

for the author). Let's see if they last. In the meantime, it allowed me to add a reference as "stated in: Historical Dictionary of the Russian Civil Wars". --

6859: 6402: 6340: 5816: 3526:

The proposal to merge the new dual view template with current (in one) is impossinle due to loop, so we would always have two templates to keep functionality.

2842: 2723: 2647: 1065: 567: 6771: 6630: 6151: 5986: 5973: 5802: 5782: 4798: 3886:

always the case that some of the other parameters, like birth_name, can be used interchangeably, of course). The fact that you'd rather have the article at

3823: 767: 691: 639:

Andy - I think you really should have renamed the section "I'm unhappy that an RFC didn't turn out the way I want, and therefore wish to re-argue the case."

8002: 7316: 7286: 6612: 6584:

concerning what What should be allowed in the religion entry in infoboxes. Please join the discussion and help us to arrive at a consensus on this issue. --

6234: 4711:

I have not looked at the specific article you two are discussing, but generally I would say IMDB is not a reliable source for either year or date of birth.

2970: 1879: 1824: 1186:

of course I object to it, or I wouldn't have reverted the edit. not everyone is logged in and watching this talk page 24/7. we should invite comments from

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so that the text of the "Resting place" label can be overridden to whatever is most appropriate in each case? I expect this has been suggested before. --

4457: 4258: 3872: 3853: 3170: 2952: 207: 187: 165: 7775: 7220: 6194: 5937: 5871: 5768: 5610: 5581: 4720: 4323: 3103:

perspective; I support the change from "above" to "title". However, permitting people to arbitrarily change the title background opens the infobox up to

1849: 1061: 982: 321: 150: 5439: 3341: 2895: 1955: 1573: 1524: 1505: 1423: 1409: 1346: 1332: 1318: 1291: 1269: 1255: 666: 6798: 6743: 6727: 6502: 4699: 4687: 4620: 3592: 3567: 3399: 2925: 2319: 2301: 2265: 1760: 1694: 646: 284:(A) Amazon is a notable store, but the fact that any particular person shops there just isn't (unless it happens to be the boss of Barnes & Noble). 7579: 7550: 7525: 7087: 7063: 5479: 4735: 4490:

You will remove the exact date of birth from 98% or 99% of all biographies of living persons because there's no direct citation for it? Seriously? --

2173:

as this was what the spouse was known as before marriage, and not everyone takes on a new name right away (if at all). I think Winkelvi said it best.

2007:

Should the spouse parameter of biography infoboxes contain (1) the person's pre-marriage name if different than current name (linked to article using

1391: 1372: 630: 312:

was closed as being inconclusive after 4 Yes and 7 No comments. I don't know what a sensible waiting period should be before reopening the subject...

7365:

Add parameters father and mother. Visibly it can be shown in parents / family, but while editing please allow to add father / mother. -- Pankaj Jain

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I don't mind whether it is moved or not but if it is it should be below birthname not above it. The birthname usually comes years before any others.

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I haven't saved the page yet; I was pushing preview and not seeing it show up. That's why you're not seeing it in my contribs. At any rate; I found

7694: 5453: 4545:

The year of birth should be sufficient. What is the defensible reason a reader needs to know the month and day upon which a living person was born?

4356: 3137: 2815: 267: 7170: 3551: 3482: 3435: 3368: 2206: 2111: 943: 111: 7184: 4387: 3489: 2366: 1966:. Going to boldly change a few more and specify in the template that it should be the COMMONNAME/article name used and not the pre-marriage name. 1951:'s concerns that there is likely to be some resistance either way; but that doesn't mean we shouldn't start. Hope this helps in some small way. - 6531: 6182: 6053: 5637: 4771: 3600: 3332:

the proposal, and support to use it for more other people also, because "notable" should be redundant, - why would we list not notable works? --

2452: 2192: 2095: 7830: 7516:

now seems to correctly display just the years, but we may need to see if anybody reports any bugs before we can be sure we have a fix. Cheers --

5507: 2248: 2148: 6272: 6221: 5862:? "To inter" is a more formal (and maybe even more subtle) way of expressing burial. At least not as ridiculous as "resting place" IMHO. -andy 4972: 4828: 4776: 2071: 2057: 1337:

Please do not template the regulars; I have never in my time here violated 3RR, and I do not intend to. You're welcome to your interpretation.

7036:

If it works for you then there should be no problem in updating the main template (data51 and data52), given the support in the discussion. --

2476: 380:' – Doesn't get around the problem of the relationship being not crucial enough to the topic that every reader needs to see it in the infobox. 7721: 7673: 7097: 6536: 4598:, although you didn't say so. I wouldn't call it a crusade, but I do remove uncited birth dates from BLPs when i see them, as per the policy 3109: 2772: 2494: 2389: 2131: 1533: 1516: 1496:

actually comes into play). For someone who has invoked battleground against others, you're doing a mighty fine impression of battleground. --

1470: 1415: 1383: 1338: 1310: 1261: 1229: 1172: 1134: 1101: 1047: 1019: 587: 105: 4753: 3184: 3008: 6702: 5620: 4516:

How do you determine "not obviously approved by the subject", do you read their minds? Can you teach me, or are you born with that gift? --

3238: 3225: 3211: 2526:: More information is better. The obvious solution to "Option 1 is confusing, and Option 2 is misleading" is ... don't confuse or mislead. 2345: 1999: 362:

is notable, but Michael Jackson owning a Gameboy would not be encyclopedically noteworthy, much less for the infobox. A basic principle at

7493: 6044:

to be nothing. It would probably be best to ask on Wikidata for honorifics to be a separate property from awards. Does that make sense? --

5566: 6575: 6487: 6260: 6178: 3890:

and would then rather have Sarah Joy Brown in other_names or birth_name is irrelevant with regards to the coding of this template. Proof:

3605:

I have recently raised issue in regard to article titles for people who may be commonly known by more than one rendering of their name.

2412: 1069: 869:

Of course the cause of death would be mentioned in the article body text, but the infobox should show facts that have a bearing on fame.

7199:. Nothing is wrong with the template, and it is not producing incoherent grammar; editors not thinking is producing incoherent grammar. 3877:

Because it is a name, like Sarah Joy Brown, under which she also has been credited. I think you're commingling two things here: a) your

507: 478: 7700: 7470: 6374: 5590:, Firstly, many thanks for the update to the template. One small request though - would it be possible to have this deliver a label of 4614:

published, not just sourced -- well perhaps the IMDB qualifies for that. In any case, what encyclopedic value does an exact dob serve?

4340:

we defer by default to the attitude of many who "regard their full names and dates of birth as private". It falls under BLP section 3,

328: 309: 275: 128: 6834: 3017: 6789:

template was expecting a coordinates parameter and needed it to be explicitly blank in order to ignore it when it wasn't supplied. --

6618: 6477: 6308: 4857: 3073:

I personally think that having it hover makes the box look "glitched" and ugly. I say the option should be off the table entirely. --

2212: 835: 740: 7594:

There is a typo in the documentation: "It is usually not relevant to included" should be "It is usually not relevant to include". --

4942:

parameter does work well for this; "Known for: Composer, musician" isn't grammatical. I'm thinking of something along the lines of

156:

What article? I don't see a priest in your recent contribs, and without looking at the case it's hard to say why this is happening.

4655: 4636: 4574: 4536: 4521: 4484: 4304: 3037:

Or can we have both so that people can choose? If there are objections to my edit, by the way, let me know and I'll revert myself.

1589: 1396:"The normal BOLD, revert, discuss cycle does not apply because those without this right are unable to perform the "revert" step." ( 551: 305:

issue are more to do with promoting the person than the agent - the page becomes resource for the person to conduct their business.

6693:

If we don't fix it, I should put a warning in the document not to use "burial place" without coordinates, if that is the problem.

3414: 3323: 3117: 862: 6177:

capable of fetching all of its data in that way. At present, our use of Wikidata in the English Encyclopedia is circumscribed by

3359:

but even classical music buffs would struggle to come up off-hand with another work by him, although he did compose other works.

931: 97: 89: 84: 72: 67: 59: 3580:(no need to use the ii, just enable it in preferences). Not possible to merge = we will have to update both templates in case a 7681:

That sounds sensible. What definitions and examples do you propose? You're autoconfirmed, so you can edit the documentation at

5692:

I understand, and that is a good thing. I was just making a general observation, whether WP:EUPHEMISM should apply here or not.

3281:| data33 = {{#if:{{{works|}}}|{{{works|}}}|{{#if:{{{credits|}}}|{{{credits}}}|{{{notable works|{{{notable_works|}}}}}}}}}} 217: 7603: 6443: 6426: 3612:

Knowledge talk:Article titles#Case study re: WP:NATURAL; WP:LEAD; infobox habits; people and the sponging out of WP:COMMONNAME

6507: 4946:. This would also be useful for modern subjects who are notable for something that has nothing to do with their occupation. 3532:

Template has been proven to work flawlessly, even nested, i.e. infobox artist calling infobox person template (click preview

1661: 1008: 4606:

here in any case. So take it that this info has been challenged as uncited, and please cite it or see it removed. Moreover,

7450: 7378: 4912: 4887: 3865:

on what justification would "Sarah Brown" fit into "Other names"? I do not think that editors would practically do this.

3210:

respectively. As a composer of Beethoven's stature has too many notable works to list in an infobox, but the corresponding

3148: 3129: 1541: 1478: 1180: 409:

Well, jolly good: if no objections appear here in the next few days, I shall change the 'agent' description/explanation in

171: 7966:

Date templates sucha s those mentioned don't just calculate an age; they also emit the date in a machine-readable format.

6300:

Warning: Page using Template:Infobox person with unknown parameter "baptism_date" (this message is shown only in preview).

3143:

I potentially take this back? It's definitely happening on this template, but when attempting to view another page - i.e.

2998:

Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

7982: 7860: 7282: 6147: 5969: 5863: 5764: 5573: 5494:

parameter, should the specific religion be a noun or an adjective? Example, is it "Anglican" or "Anglicanism"? What does

5458:

Agreed it needs to move up, and agreed with Zyxw that it should be after birth_name (which means after the birth block).

4651: 4595: 4570: 4532: 4517: 3508: 3245: 1585: 718: 687: 503: 474: 6581: 3405:

Update: As there are no objections after a week, I've made the amendments proposed. I'll now amend the documentation. --

1512: 793:

identify publicly as atheist, etc., and especially for those about whom this fact is related to their notability (e.g.,

6369: 6297:

Warning: Page using Template:Infobox person with unknown parameter "box_width" (this message is shown only in preview).

5839:

That's not a bad idea, John, but it would cause problems for third-party tools that aggregate our content, because the

4782: 4347:

It's news to me, that we do not (should not) poke around for middle names and birthdays in order to identify people. --

3447: 2104: 2064: 3701:

In such cases such I propose that something along the lines of a "Names used" field might be added to the template.

7900: 7798: 7740: 7211: 6762: 6462: 6393: 5470: 4958: 4786: 4448: 4400:. "Borderline notable" is within "notable" on a Venn diagram, so the "shouldn't be here at all" argument is invalid. 4249: 3844: 3519: 3390: 2916: 2833: 2757: 2714: 2579: 2538: 1646: 1564: 973: 895: 826: 773: 758: 456:"Religion infobox parameter as presenting systemic bias as people's belief in an atheistic worldview is now excluded" 394: 6922: 7837: 7486: 6750:

We don't need geo coordinates for burial places anyway; it's cruft. Please make this work without requiring that.

6170: 4747: 3122: 7651: 7027: 7013: 5522: 5512: 4803: 236: 6304:

These parameters do not exist in that specific article. I believe there is an issue with the template itself. —

7309: 7253: 6853: 4931: 2186: 2091: 1670: 7957: 7925: 7826: 6783: 5807:

I agree that it's euphemistic, but do you have another suggestion for cases where the person was not buried?

4341: 3314:

to allow Ludwig to have his list of compositions prefaced with the label that editors of the article want. --

2984: 2873:, then that is what is best to use in Bill's infobox. It would mean that Barak Obama's infobox would link to 2342: 542:

The whole set up is now biased and perhaps the best thing would be for the whole parameter to be scrapped.

5418:, might be displayed many lines below (depending on which other parameters are used). I would like to place 4938:

parameter is misleading and anachronistic for pre-modern subjects. We need a more general alternative. The

6522: 5572:

This an very good suggestion. It's more factual to state if someone was buried (as most people have been).

4237:

Just follow the template documentation, and sandbox if you need to, to see exactly what the parameters do.

3751:"| names_used =  3461: 47: 17: 6817:

Is this parameter only used for alive persons, or may it be used for people regardless of their statuses?

3291:. This change would not increase the number of parameters displayable, but would merely allow a parameter 2745:(then Nancy Robins)" might be even better. Consider it the same proposal, exact wording to be determined. 7682: 7617: 6169:

has calls that return only the most preferred properties (even if more than one exists at the top rank).

6125: 5903: 4283: 1844:

I was told I was wrong and trouted for it. I personally think it was excessive, but others disagree so I

410: 6355:, the infobox lists the twins by name alphabetically. Is it alphabetically done or done by who's older? 4473:

particularly says to be cautious if the subject complains or is only borderline notable, it also says: "

600:

Nothing. You either don't censor one side of positions being presented or you remove the whole thing.

7943: 7492:

and displays dates of birth and death as 1 January 1884 and 1 January 1918. However, Wikidata (and the

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parameter name, it's difficult to argue that they won't see what the document tells them about its use.

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but still think that the mock up all around gives an indication of the kind of thing that can happen.

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sources provide this information, we can use it for BLPs. If it requires primary sources, other than

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and puts a little asterisk (*) with hovertext stating "article is not yet available on this wiki".

2350:

So not the current name as this category states then? (I assume you wouldn't have JFK's infobox say

7953: 7921: 7871: 7822: 7444: 7372: 6071: 6040:

which displays it in the usual place in the infobox; and then suppress the awards field by setting

6033: 5895: 4916: 4891: 4432:. That would probably be a reasonable clarification proposal at WT:BLP. I opened such a discussion 3078: 3028: 2980: 1848:. But to reply about the other page, I did make a post on the most relevant page I could think of: 1356: 513:

A logical response to this would be to exclude the Religion parameter from the infobox altogether.

371:

Andy Mabbett / Damotclese points: any data is likely to be of interest / more information is better

223: 5699:

check the documentation ever. A deplorable but true fact. So I think it should be "burial place".

2821:

Agreed. This is a discussion that should be centralized, not re-re-re-fought on a thousand pages.

1492:

that you must make changes this instant? All that's being asked of you is to wait (which is where

531:

Other people hold firmly to atheistic points of view and these views are also of particular note.

7978: 7890: 7856: 7812: 7344: 7340: 7278: 6885: 6881: 6550: 6284: 6174: 6143: 5965: 5798: 5760: 5551: 4834: 4602:. It may appear in the IMDB but it wasn't cited here, and the IMDB is not generally considered a 4392:

That's an out-of-band argument; this isn't the place to rewrite or reinterpret the interplay of,

3504: 3311: 3178: 2857: 1807: 1708: 802:. This would have other beneficial uses. For example, there are both philosophical and religious 714: 683: 577: 528:

For Darwin's religious views are themselves highly notable and much has been written about them.

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At least the explanation of the agent parameter should be updated to reflect the summary of the

7841: 7639: 7599: 6608: 6364: 6352: 4808: 3337: 3002: 2904:(then Jacqueline Bouvier)". It not only satisfies both conditions, it's genuinely informative. 2805: 2670: 2637: 2291: 2238: 2161: 2047: 1983: 1915: 1869: 1783: 1750: 1616: 1489: 7023:

I've tried three test cases here, but you may want to check in some real pages by changing to

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the age at death of a person in perpetuity through a template – it's not going to change. --

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parameters are all displayed near the top of the infobox. The only remaining name parameter,

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That "bug" actually helps distinguish it from a real article, which seems like a Good Thing.

448: 391: 6028: 5748:

This is a perennial question (please see the archives), "resting place" is not a euphemism.

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beliefs, we should not be throwing around such claims about living people so carelessly. --

7911: 7786:(except where consensus determines it is directly relevant to why the subject is notable). 7621: 7546: 7501: 7059: 6930: 6818: 6643: 6626: 6332: 5826: 5812: 4911:

What's needed is a clear distinction between commonly used name, full name and birth name.

4824: 4716: 4371: 3878: 2936: 2401: 2063:

Per request, a discussion occurring on Bill Clinton's talk page on this issue can be found

2011:

if necessary), (2) the person's current name/current article title, or (3) something else?

1943: 730: 485:"Religion infobox parameter as presenting systemic bias due to exclusion of atheism option" 161: 7513: 7475: 3100: 352:

Netoholic / DHeyward points: if the agent is notable then the relationship must be notable

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see if you can convince anybody else to agree with you. The problem here was that the

3187:, several editors indicated that they would like the ability to have a field labelled 1228:

How about you engage then? Do I have to pratically beg for an explanation every time?

842: 7635: 7611: 7595: 7150: 7134: 7119: 7114:

an activist. The activist isn't something she created or owns, but something she is.

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Knowledge talk:Biographies of living persons/Archive 39#Dates of birth and info boxes

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I was wondering whether a further field might be added to the template as follows:

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Would appreciate any feedback before I begin changing them to the article titles.

539:) could have arrived in its current state without the intervention of a g/God. 7998: 7907: 7690: 7575: 7557: 7542: 7521: 7497: 7232: 7166: 7083: 7055: 7041: 7017: 6926: 6794: 6723: 6622: 6268: 6229: 6190: 6166: 6049: 6015: 6006: 5849: 5808: 5733: 5683: 5633: 5562: 4820: 4731: 4712: 4312: 3862: 3758: 3563: 3410: 3319: 3144: 3104: 3055: 3038: 3012: 2940: 2891: 2870: 2779: 2465: 2271: 2201: 2108: 2019: 1719: 1549: 1300:

observe BRD. If I hadn't, I'd have reverted immediately; I only reverted after I

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What's wrong with the edit by Pigsonthewing? After all, it seems unnecessary to

7896:, and add the date of death as the "cmp" parameters. Alternatively, you can use 3271:{{#if:{{{works|}}}|Works|{{#if:{{{credits|}}}|Notable credit(s)|Notable work}}}} 2694:) but is uncommon, so I wouldn't use it. And I'm not wedded (pardon the pun) to 46:

If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the

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assumes you should try to stuff as much trivia into every infobox as possible.

1364: 1205: 1201: 953: 916: 854: 658: 653: 521: 435: 421: 336: 313: 263: 248: 228: 192: 176: 139: 115: 5527: 3692:"| birth_name =  3287: 294:(C) Naming most agents would provide near-instant means of contact via Google. 7665: 7292: 7236: 6841: 6494: 6483: 6435: 6418: 6316: 6305: 6217: 4844: 4694: 4682: 4631: 4615: 4607: 4599: 4546: 4506: 4479: 4470: 4401: 4397: 4379: 4352: 4333: 4299: 4293:

the exact birth date should normally not be inclued in articles unless it is

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Knowledge talk:Biographies of living persons § Doxxing clarification proposal

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for spouses who have their own Articles; as implied in the questions above -

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field? Just insert text, or use {{efn}}-like templates in the other fields?

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Option added 12:37, 13 June 2015 (UTC), originally titled "Option 3: Both: "

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Knowledge:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive883#Possible canvassing

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Andy Mabbett 2nd point: naming an agent doesn't provide "a means of contact"

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Note that the source cited in the early life paragraph (an interview) does

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Other notable names for the person, if different from name and birth_name.

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Thanks, but I've found one. I did a bit more digging and learned that the

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You're quoting out of context. Me and Frietjes are both template editors.

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discouraged in most cases, specifically when promotional, and requiring a

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mw:Extension:Wikibase Client/Lua #mw.wikibase.entity:formatPropertyValues

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and at Eric's page to try to gauge what the most popular label would be.

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Currently there appears to be a mix of how this is handled. For example,

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line of the lede of the linked article in any case. I do, however, share

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Why is IMDB sufficient for his year of birth but not his date of birth?

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In this case I think that the project page might present something like:

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I fail to see that Frietjes has agreed with you in any shape or form. --

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Anyway, the RfC "should a person's agency be listed in the infobox?" in

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Knowledge:Village pump (policy)#RfC: Religion in biographical infoboxes

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is not, the output should simply be Denomination: <denomination: -->

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The template states, "Place of burial, ash-scattering, etc." Period. 🖖

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Allow sitelinks to redirect pages to fix the 'Bonnie and Clyde problem'

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Not likely to happen without an RFC; they were deprecated as discussed

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Some people have pronouns that they prefer. For more information, see

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That would work, but seems a bit wordy for an info-box possibly...?

6293:, the following template errors are being displayed during preview: 3783:

Pinging editors who may have familiarity with the WT:AT discussion:

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Didn't the Marriage parameter "Explanation" used to say to use the

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Parameters should be as unambiguous as possible. Many editors will

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was preferable for reasons of aesthetics, grammar and accuracy to:

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So essentially, the name for the infobox is above the box itself?--

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Template talk:Infobox country#RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations

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It would be better to just merge the templates, once and for all.

4815:" in the infobox. Is that a proper use of the footnote parameter? 3470:. Can be used in any article by adding an " ii" at the end of any 1850:

Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography#Spouse_parameter_and_surnames

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Oh so I'm not here to build an encyclopaedia? Well, goodbye then.

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there is also the part about it being above or below the modules.

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Can/should verified Twitter accounts be listed in this infobox's

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Code is now very clean (no sub-templates scattering code around).

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Talk:Ludwig van Beethoven #Link to Beethovens work in the infobox

2702:(formerly Robins)" is fine, too. I think that covers all of it. 853:

really and are unnecessary for inclusion in the infobo, I think.

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If we are willing to display data retrieved from Wikidata, then

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Another problem is that the birth and death dates have lost the

4424:, to obtain this information, digging up such details smacks of 1599:

E.g., an athlete's political affiliation is likely not notable.

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Talk:Bernie_Sanders#Request_for_comments_--_religion_in_infobox

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so that every interview starts with his exact date of birth. --

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Well spotted; I've fixed it. Actually the documentation is at

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When that happens, it's usually a sign that the code is using

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WP:Wikidata #Inserting Wikidata values into Knowledge articles

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be verified as a published expert in the field in question. --

1246:, Alakzi. Please wait for other regular editors to comment. -- 1100:. There's no longer an issue with the infobox being expanded. 6086:

the "preferred rank". See the Date of Birth statement on her

5793:. "Burial place" would be a good non-euphemistic substitute. 3490:

Knowledge:Village pump (proposals)#Template:Infobox person ii

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Consequently, I created a temporary demonstration version at

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moved above the modules? I must have missed the discussion?

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which differs from the parent template only in these lines:

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I can find no discussion on this in the archives here or on

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For posterity, I'm making a note that I put my change back.

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Knowledge:Village pump (policy)#RfC: Ethnicity in infoboxes

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That would work, too. I don't care which option is taken.--

6331:; your preview shouldn't show these error messages now. -- 6074:

from being locally-created to one using this template. See

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If you don't want to be templated for edit warring, follow

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GregKaye, atheism is not faith. It is a lack of belief. It

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I realized that too late. Thanks for taking care of it. --

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Or even "Transgender activism"? or is that too obvious. --

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Dealing with concepts that exist in Knowledge as redirects

4409:. Classifying such rules as "censorship" is hyperbolic. 7765: 7711: 6066:

Dealing with conflicting statements in the same parameter

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Template_talk:Infobox_theologian#Propose Infobox academic

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Why does a reader need to know any fact about anybody? --

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okay, so we start a new discussion, I will move it back.

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I created this template in order to be able to view and

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Okay, no answer to that question; how about this one?:

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My contention is that, in the context of an article on

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compare, side by side, wikidata and user data infoboxes

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Robins)", whatever. Including both names is the point.

2551:: I don't care what the exact wording is; it could be " 1942:, I am generally of the opinion that we should use the 7129:

What about supplying "being a" before "transgender"?

5907: 5728:. It can always be changed if people don't like it. -- 7817:

I'm a bit annoyed that the infobox in the article on

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gets "Known for: Transgender activist". She is known

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Knowledge talk:WikiProject Biography #Infobox content

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Would you please stop parsing guidelines in order to

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This is the part where you explain why you reverted.

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I must've missed the discussion where it was decided

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It shouldn't be shown as an award at all, but as an

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At present this template has alternative parameters

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The following discussion is an archived record of a

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Template-protected edit request on 25 February 2016

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Template-protected edit request on 18 February 2016

6840:It can be used for both living and deceased people 6087: 3539:

It is not suggested as pre-enabled but as optional.

2406:(2) the person's current name/current article title 2030:have their spouses' pre-marriage ("maiden") names. 1679:

No further edits should be made to this discussion.

1580:Do not use all these parameters for any one person 810:will confuse, and inspire people to add (possibly 7227:allow for architect infobox to use all parameters 6910:so that it appears as Religion: <religion: --> 6381:read (and view pictures in pages) left-to-right. 6208:function of statement rank, whatever that may be. 3687:Regarding the infobox, The project page does say: 3310:Unless there are objections, I'd like to upgrade 2677:Rodham)" would be kind of pointless. The use of 2620:means "born", curious how this would be handled. 2400:on the basis that this is understood to mean the 1815:page first and see how that works out for you. -- 779: 6582:Template talk:Infobox#RfC: Religion in infoboxes 5606:? Many thanks for your consideration of this. - 3285:You can see how the sandbox version displays at 287:(B) As pointed out by NeilN, the infobox is for 7539:Historical Dictionary of the Russian Civil Wars 7033:and previewing without saving, just to be sure. 6690:(in preview mode) and it doesn't show at all. 5894:I noticed in the wikidata-driven infoboxes for 5773:Good point. In any case, both are allowed now. 586:What would such a counter-parameter be called? 7755:RfC notice: Religion in biographical infoboxes 7494:Russian Knowledge entry to which it is sourced 6005:becoming a dab page at some point. I intended 5926:This is related to Wikidata Phabricator bug: " 4664:No, I mention the interview because it is the 4289:, which requires a full date. However, as per 2105:this topic emerged at Bill Clinton's talk page 1018:would be handled unlike in any other infobox. 6417:? (maybe not) Why doesn't it say that now? -- 5858:Bit late to the party I know, but what about 4610:specifies that an exact DOB should have been 2877:, but Richard Burton's infobox would link to 1682:A summary of the conclusions reached follows. 1278:to you. You are simply being asked to follow 6923:Template_talk:Infobox#Denomination_placement 6036:. It needed to set OBE as a local value for 5953:. And no, I don't know how to achieve that. 5598:, to fit with the past tense verb format of 3212:List of compositions by Ludwig van Beethoven 1133:on a new line, and (b) underneath a module. 281:I think all three points are easily refuted: 6488:Gender-specific and gender-neutral pronouns 6261:Category:Templates using data from Wikidata 6228:Any infobox that makes use of the calls in 5539:(and its synonyms) delivering the label as 3488:There is significant discussion of this at 671:Being utterly irrelevant, no. it does not. 483:subheading again shortened, this time from 274:Sorry, yes it was discussed once before at 4926:A "notable_as" alternative to "occupation" 3618:The article mentioned currently presents: 3218:consider notable, the consensus was that: 2022:have their spouses' current names whereas 1802:I don't know about anyone else, but after 780:_philosophy-2015-07-30T19:19:00.000Z": --> 775:_philosophy-2015-07-30T19:19:00.000Z": --> 7771:Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere. 7717:Pointer to relevant discussion elsewhere. 5523:User talk:Eric Corbett #It makes me wince 3303:if it is present, generating the concise 7016:to check whether it does what you want, 5557:to reflect the change in the sandbox? -- 3861:in the context of an article with title 3761:, a description of "Sarah Brown" under " 2881:. And yes, JFK's infobox should link to 1072:, ..., so it seems to be controversial. 6111:metadata markup, created via templates 3572:In case it is not fully understood, we 3214:contains many minor works that many do 1361:"No subsequent objections, reinstating" 366:is that notability is not transferable. 14: 7413:. The parameters won't be used unless 6912:) rather than on a second line. Where 6070:I just swapped an existing infobox on 4973:Position of other_names within infobox 4777:Strange instructions regarding website 4342:WP:BLP#Presumption in favor of privacy 3772:" I also thought that something like " 883:Agreed. Infoboxes are not for trivia. 44:Do not edit the contents of this page. 7840:, but in the meantime I've applied a 7098:known_for leads to incoherent grammar 6537:Editors who work on this template.... 2274:now, so that's why I used that name. 106:RfC: Religion in infoboxes of nations 6001:can't legislate for a redirect like 4630:include the DOB, not even the year. 4585:This conversation was migrated from 2961:will be rare and judged on sources. 2935:shouldn't the presumption be to use 702:, but your conclusion is falacious. 172:Template:Infobox religious biography 25: 6576:RfC announce: Religion in infoboxes 5628:making use of the new parameter. -- 3246:Template:Infobox person/sandbox-LvB 1309:be undone on a just-in-case basis. 1242:Neither is Knowledge contingent on 1214:and anyone else who is interested. 23: 7701:RfC notice: Ethnicity in infoboxes 7471:Specificity problem with /Wikidata 5908:https://www.wikidata.org/Q12201477 4932:Talk:Johann Sebastian Bach#Infobox 1704:pointed out that some pages using 129:Religion parameter not showing up? 24: 8020: 6478:parameter for preferred pronouns? 6181:, particularly the result of the 4476:that the subject does not object. 3780:" might alternatively be used. 3518:The discussion has been archived 3191:which would contain a link to ]. 2788:" is on this page above the RfC. 434:Change made today, as discussed. 174:and decided to use it instead. ~ 7838:Template talk:Death date and age 7760: 7706: 7656:Many editors use the parameters 7404: 7332: 7069: 6873: 6171:Template:Infobox person/Wikidata 5675:have been complaining since 2008 2994:The discussion above is closed. 2652:I changed the proposal to avoid 911:"Influenced" and "Influenced by" 29: 7197:|known_for=Transgender activism 7014:Template:Infobox person/sandbox 6516:parameter for BLP's?... TIA. -- 6513: 6434:Any objections to adding it? -- 4839:How is one supposed to use the 3675:(born February 18, 1975) is an 651:We even have an essay on this: 5902:, they both have the award of 5615:Thank you for the kind words, 4652:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 4596:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 4571:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 4533:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 4526:02:10, 19 September 2015 (UTC) 4518:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 2976:Oppose any general requirement 2614:William Jefferson Blythe III)" 1586:Richard Arthur Norton (1958- ) 956:-pushing, as well as lists of 291:, not for every scrap of info. 218:Agent parameter = Advertising? 13: 1: 7391:20:34, 25 February 2016 (UTC) 7221:20:21, 22 February 2016 (UTC) 7185:21:28, 15 February 2016 (UTC) 7171:19:52, 15 February 2016 (UTC) 7155:14:54, 15 February 2016 (UTC) 7139:14:52, 15 February 2016 (UTC) 7124:14:50, 15 February 2016 (UTC) 7088:03:31, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 7064:03:18, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 7046:02:58, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 6935:02:09, 18 February 2016 (UTC) 6906:Move the output placement of 6860:18:33, 10 February 2016 (UTC) 6799:13:07, 10 February 2016 (UTC) 6744:21:53, 25 December 2015 (UTC) 6728:19:45, 25 December 2015 (UTC) 6703:04:37, 25 December 2015 (UTC) 6631:07:49, 10 February 2016 (UTC) 6570:07:03, 10 February 2016 (UTC) 6555:06:47, 10 February 2016 (UTC) 6508:Website parameter and Twitter 6273:23:05, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 6222:20:52, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 6195:17:33, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 6152:13:39, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 6102:12:20, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 6054:17:56, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 6020:17:45, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 5987:17:37, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 5974:13:33, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 5946:with a value of, for example 5938:12:45, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 5921:12:30, 18 December 2015 (UTC) 5854:16:19, 17 November 2015 (UTC) 5835:14:56, 17 November 2015 (UTC) 5817:14:40, 17 November 2015 (UTC) 5803:03:33, 17 November 2015 (UTC) 5508:13:05, 13 November 2015 (UTC) 5480:09:08, 11 November 2015 (UTC) 4968:09:06, 11 November 2015 (UTC) 4259:10:14, 1 September 2015 (UTC) 3873:07:33, 1 September 2015 (UTC) 3601:"Names used" or similar field 3355:who is always remembered for 1808:User talk:Philg88#ANI Closure 1662:Spouse parameter and surnames 1382:patience has been exhausted. 1274:Please do not take this as a 6835:00:38, 6 February 2016 (UTC) 6772:11:58, 5 February 2016 (UTC) 6613:23:47, 4 February 2016 (UTC) 6532:05:39, 6 February 2016 (UTC) 6503:19:36, 5 February 2016 (UTC) 6472:11:56, 5 February 2016 (UTC) 6444:18:41, 3 February 2016 (UTC) 6427:20:00, 29 January 2016 (UTC) 6403:11:53, 5 February 2016 (UTC) 6375:01:43, 4 February 2016 (UTC) 6341:19:03, 15 January 2016 (UTC) 6309:18:27, 15 January 2016 (UTC) 6237:. For example, in Wikidata, 5872:06:26, 6 December 2015 (UTC) 5783:19:49, 3 November 2015 (UTC) 5769:17:01, 3 November 2015 (UTC) 5738:20:03, 1 November 2015 (UTC) 5709:13:23, 1 November 2015 (UTC) 5688:11:47, 1 November 2015 (UTC) 5660:07:19, 1 November 2015 (UTC) 5638:00:02, 1 November 2015 (UTC) 5611:23:43, 31 October 2015 (UTC) 5582:19:03, 31 October 2015 (UTC) 5567:18:56, 31 October 2015 (UTC) 5454:15:19, 3 November 2015 (UTC) 5440:14:51, 3 November 2015 (UTC) 4921:15:48, 5 November 2015 (UTC) 4896:15:24, 5 November 2015 (UTC) 4858:12:46, 26 October 2015 (UTC) 4829:18:29, 18 October 2015 (UTC) 4799:18:18, 17 October 2015 (UTC) 4772:08:41, 15 October 2015 (UTC) 3161:It was a site-wide issue. -- 3099:, which is superior from an 1469:is not a filibustering aid. 1086:Presumably, this was before 18:Template talk:Infobox person 7: 7683:Template:Infobox person/doc 7618:Template:Infobox person/doc 7514:older version you indicated 7359:to reactivate your request. 7347:has been answered. Set the 7195:Just write proper English: 6900:to reactivate your request. 6888:has been answered. Set the 6594:19:40, 2 January 2016 (UTC) 5904:Order of the British Empire 4869:Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche 4736:20:00, 5 October 2015 (UTC) 4721:02:38, 5 October 2015 (UTC) 4700:15:35, 4 October 2015 (UTC) 4688:02:04, 4 October 2015 (UTC) 4660:01:42, 4 October 2015 (UTC) 4637:01:40, 4 October 2015 (UTC) 4621:01:36, 4 October 2015 (UTC) 4579:19:21, 4 October 2015 (UTC) 4555:01:56, 4 October 2015 (UTC) 4541:01:35, 4 October 2015 (UTC) 4512:17:00, 17 August 2015 (UTC) 4500:08:43, 17 August 2015 (UTC) 4485:21:24, 16 August 2015 (UTC) 4279:The doc now advises use of 3854:22:07, 31 August 2015 (UTC) 3824:14:14, 31 August 2015 (UTC) 3593:23:08, 31 August 2015 (UTC) 3568:17:51, 31 August 2015 (UTC) 3552:10:28, 31 August 2015 (UTC) 3436:17:06, 28 August 2015 (UTC) 3415:16:46, 28 August 2015 (UTC) 3400:01:09, 21 August 2015 (UTC) 3369:22:51, 20 August 2015 (UTC) 3342:22:13, 20 August 2015 (UTC) 3324:21:44, 20 August 2015 (UTC) 3295:to override the parameters 3171:00:50, 26 August 2015 (UTC) 3157:00:46, 26 August 2015 (UTC) 3138:00:42, 26 August 2015 (UTC) 3118:19:13, 10 August 2015 (UTC) 3083:20:11, 10 August 2015 (UTC) 3061:18:44, 10 August 2015 (UTC) 3044:18:38, 10 August 2015 (UTC) 3033:18:34, 10 August 2015 (UTC) 3018:18:32, 10 August 2015 (UTC) 2072:Option 1: Pre-marriage name 411:Template:Infobox_person/doc 10: 8025: 8003:20:24, 28 March 2016 (UTC) 7987:12:49, 28 March 2016 (UTC) 7962:22:27, 27 March 2016 (UTC) 7948:18:48, 27 March 2016 (UTC) 7930:18:36, 27 March 2016 (UTC) 7916:16:56, 27 March 2016 (UTC) 7876:You should be able to use 7865:16:48, 27 March 2016 (UTC) 7831:16:10, 27 March 2016 (UTC) 7808:01:26, 24 March 2016 (UTC) 7758: 7750:00:12, 24 March 2016 (UTC) 7724:for ongoing RfC to remove 7704: 7695:14:26, 15 March 2016 (UTC) 7674:08:00, 15 March 2016 (UTC) 7644:21:53, 13 March 2016 (UTC) 7630:12:27, 13 March 2016 (UTC) 7604:11:45, 13 March 2016 (UTC) 7580:17:19, 10 March 2016 (UTC) 7551:12:47, 10 March 2016 (UTC) 7526:07:54, 10 March 2016 (UTC) 7506:00:15, 10 March 2016 (UTC) 6541:...might be interested in 4272: 3765:would not be appropriate. 3449:Template:Infobox person ii 2989:20:56, 4 August 2015 (UTC) 2902:Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis 2883:Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis 2773:General discussion for RfC 2547:12:37, 13 June 2015 (UTC) 2352:Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis 1956:22:33, 27 April 2015 (UTC) 1926:18:30, 28 April 2015 (UTC) 1880:01:36, 28 April 2015 (UTC) 1825:06:20, 27 April 2015 (UTC) 1794:03:15, 27 April 2015 (UTC) 1761:05:56, 23 April 2015 (UTC) 1695:18:01, 8 August 2015 (UTC) 948:Agreed. It's a recipe for 258:pages. COI was common. -- 7952:Nemmind, figured it out. 7463:17:12, 4 March 2016 (UTC) 7433:16:46, 4 March 2016 (UTC) 7317:23:49, 3 March 2016 (UTC) 7287:11:51, 3 March 2016 (UTC) 7261:21:26, 2 March 2016 (UTC) 7001: 6996: 6991:Infobox person/Archive 29 6989: 6977: 6972: 6967:Infobox person/Archive 29 6965: 6953: 6948: 6943:Infobox person/Archive 29 6941: 6716:{{{burial_coordinates|}}} 6668:Llanthony Secunda Priory, 5379: 5369: 5359: 5349: 5335: 5325: 5315: 5301: 5291: 5277: 5257: 5245: 5233: 5221: 5210: 5193: 5177: 5167: 5155: 5145: 5135: 5121: 5111: 5101: 5087: 5077: 5063: 5043: 5031: 5019: 5008: 4991: 4458:19:50, 30 July 2015 (UTC) 4388:20:22, 16 July 2015 (UTC) 4357:22:47, 15 July 2015 (UTC) 4305:16:20, 27 June 2015 (UTC) 4209: 4201: 4191: 4183: 4166: 4156: 4131: 4124: 4104: 4096: 4086: 4078: 4061: 4053: 4024: 4017: 3997: 3989: 3979: 3971: 3954: 3944: 3919: 3912: 3654: 3642: 3635: 3513:16:04, 30 July 2015 (UTC) 3483:14:14, 22 July 2015 (UTC) 2971:13:05, 24 July 2015 (UTC) 2953:00:16, 18 June 2015 (UTC) 2926:14:17, 19 June 2015 (UTC) 2896:23:16, 17 June 2015 (UTC) 2862:21:31, 15 June 2015 (UTC) 2843:12:39, 13 June 2015 (UTC) 2816:21:59, 11 June 2015 (UTC) 2767:14:19, 19 June 2015 (UTC) 2724:01:30, 14 June 2015 (UTC) 2648:00:33, 14 June 2015 (UTC) 2589:01:30, 14 June 2015 (UTC) 2495:04:12, 12 July 2015 (UTC) 2453:03:37, 21 June 2015 (UTC) 2413:08:10, 20 June 2015 (UTC) 2390:11:28, 13 June 2015 (UTC) 2367:22:06, 12 June 2015 (UTC) 2346:14:42, 12 June 2015 (UTC) 2320:22:06, 12 June 2015 (UTC) 2302:00:05, 12 June 2015 (UTC) 2266:23:19, 11 June 2015 (UTC) 2249:20:42, 11 June 2015 (UTC) 2207:23:34, 17 June 2015 (UTC) 2193:19:28, 16 June 2015 (UTC) 2166:21:49, 13 June 2015 (UTC) 2149:00:15, 12 June 2015 (UTC) 2132:23:15, 11 June 2015 (UTC) 2112:21:37, 11 June 2015 (UTC) 2096:20:55, 11 June 2015 (UTC) 2058:20:42, 11 June 2015 (UTC) 1656:20:42, 30 July 2015 (UTC) 1627:00:47, 21 June 2015 (UTC) 1594:00:06, 21 June 2015 (UTC) 1574:19:34, 30 July 2015 (UTC) 1542:11:48, 15 July 2015 (UTC) 1398:Knowledge:Template editor 983:19:24, 30 July 2015 (UTC) 944:13:26, 21 July 2015 (UTC) 925:04:46, 21 July 2015 (UTC) 905:19:21, 30 July 2015 (UTC) 879:15:28, 27 July 2015 (UTC) 863:06:30, 27 July 2015 (UTC) 837:19:19, 30 July 2015 (UTC) 768:19:07, 30 July 2015 (UTC) 741:14:02, 28 July 2015 (UTC) 698:Not only are you failing 667:18:59, 20 June 2015 (UTC) 657:. I hope this helps... -- 647:17:23, 20 June 2015 (UTC) 631:00:57, 21 June 2015 (UTC) 608:17:41, 20 June 2015 (UTC) 596:16:29, 20 June 2015 (UTC) 582:16:21, 20 June 2015 (UTC) 568:16:08, 20 June 2015 (UTC) 552:15:58, 20 June 2015 (UTC) 479:16:32, 20 June 2015 (UTC) 430:11:49, 13 June 2015 (UTC) 297:Furthermore, I think the 188:15:32, 23 June 2015 (UTC) 166:15:21, 23 June 2015 (UTC) 151:15:10, 23 June 2015 (UTC) 124:14:40, 17 June 2015 (UTC) 7901:death date and given age 6712:{{{burial_coordinates}}} 6675:{{{burial_coordinates}}} 6072:Florence Violet McKenzie 6034:Florence Violet McKenzie 5896:Florence Violet McKenzie 5528:a version in the sandbox 4748:Propose Infobox academic 4324:00:19, 2 July 2015 (UTC) 3474:template name. Enjoy.·· 3462:WD hidden infobox person 3250: 3123:Script error in Template 2996:Please do not modify it. 2477:00:13, 2 July 2015 (UTC) 1676:Please do not modify it. 1525:23:52, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1506:23:33, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1479:13:37, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1424:12:42, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1410:12:29, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1392:10:49, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1373:10:19, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1347:01:09, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1333:01:02, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1319:00:50, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1292:00:37, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1270:00:28, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1256:00:25, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1244:your executive decisions 1238:00:03, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 1224:23:59, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 1181:23:54, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 1143:16:12, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 1124:16:04, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 1110:16:02, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 1082:16:01, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 1056:15:58, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 1042:15:49, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 1028:15:46, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 1009:15:45, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 723:07:54, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 692:07:54, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 508:07:51, 8 July 2015 (UTC) 454:subheading changed from 444:15:46, 7 July 2015 (UTC) 404:08:09, 3 June 2015 (UTC) 345:21:58, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 322:21:38, 28 May 2015 (UTC) 268:22:07, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 241:21:13, 27 May 2015 (UTC) 208:00:22, 2 July 2015 (UTC) 7836:This is a question for 7652:Requested clarification 7487:Infobox person/Wikidata 7417:is blank or missing. -- 7345:Template:Infobox person 6886:Template:Infobox person 6175:Template:Infobox person 5513:Resting place parameter 4804:footnotes = Wikipedian? 4642:Tell how you interpret 3312:Template:Infobox person 2604:Question: would we put 1994:16:33, 7 May 2015 (UTC) 563:aka The Red Pen of Doom 413:as suggested above (to 7778:for new RfC to remove 7437:Thanks -- Pankaj Jain 7231:I added an infobox to 7028:Infobox person/sandbox 6973:John Just-Denomination 6911:(<denomination: --> 6599:There is a new RfC on 6353:Dylan and Cole Sprouse 4908:) or simply mistaken. 4809:Renato M. E. Sabbatini 3584:parameter is added.·· 2671:Hillary Rodham Clinton 2213:Option 2: Current name 1888:'s suggestion, I made 1488:. Is it honestly that 738:Colin aka Henri Merton 6981:Mrs Just-Denomination 6291:Buckskin Frank Leslie 5823:|resting_place_label= 4871:is commonly known as 4648:universally published 4587:Daniel Martin Eckhart 3888:Sarah Brown (actress) 3576:use the funcionality 3266:"white-space:nowrap;" 3202:which produce labels 3183:During discussion at 3095:places the name in a 2943:) in most instances? 2555:(formerly Robins)", " 2024:John Forbes Nash, Jr. 2000:RfC: Spouse parameter 42:of past discussions. 7886:in combination with 7311:See what I have done 7255:See what I have done 7054:, that looks right. 6784:br separated entries 6680:Constable of England 6650:Margaret of Hereford 6644:Margaret of Hereford 4877:Franz Peter Schubert 4372:Knowledge:Notability 4370:given guidelines at 3288:Ludwig van Beethoven 3239:List of compositions 3226:List of compositions 3007:I hope no one minds 7872:DragonflySixtyseven 6673:Gloucester, England 6601:Talk:Bernie Sanders 6580:There is an RfC at 4873:Friedrich Nietzsche 2981:MissPiggysBoyfriend 2786:original discussion 2741:(then Robins)" or " 1671:request for comment 1457:Now you're quoting 537:fine-tuned Universe 358:is notable and the 7784:{{Infobox person}} 7566:for the book (and 6949:John Just-Religion 6639:Burial coordinates 6126:Death date and age 6038:|honorific_suffix= 5944:|honorific_suffix= 5724:to give the label 5535:, which overrides 5486:Noun or adjective? 5344:burial_coordinates 5296:disappeared_status 5130:burial_coordinates 5082:disappeared_status 4930:As pointed out at 4752:See proposal here 4284:birth date and age 4149:Eureka, California 4046:Eureka, California 3937:Eureka, California 2505:(formerly Robins)" 2380:'s spouse(s) box. 2359: 2312: 2258: 2124: 354:' – Doesn't work. 303:WP:NOT#ADVERTISING 7363: 7362: 7314: 7258: 7110:an activist, not 7009: 7008: 6985: 6984: 6961: 6960: 6957:Mrs Just-Religion 6904: 6903: 6646:'s infobox says: 6617:Specifically, at 6530: 6415:marriage template 5999: 5547:. Shall I update 5393: 5392: 5389: 5388: 5286:disappeared_place 5187: 5186: 5072:disappeared_place 4856: 4848: 4811:has "footnotes = 4787:instruction creep 4422:the subject's own 4338:for living people 4229: 4228: 4225: 4224: 4142:February 18, 1975 4120: 4119: 4039:February 18, 1975 4013: 4012: 3930:February 18, 1975 3778:Also presented as 3743: 3670: 3669: 3630: 3589: 3548: 3479: 3204:Notable credit(s) 3059: 3042: 3016: 2814: 2646: 2501:Option 3: Both: " 2365: 2355: 2318: 2308: 2300: 2264: 2254: 2247: 2205: 2130: 2120: 2056: 1992: 1962:No objections on 1924: 1878: 1811:to try it on the 1792: 1759: 1702:Talk:Bruce Jenner 1625: 1357:WP:TALKDONTREVERT 843:_philosophy": --> 840:_philosophy": --> 836:_philosophy": --> 786:_philosophy": --> 564: 224:WP:NOTADVERTISING 186: 149: 103: 102: 54: 53: 48:current talk page 8016: 7985: 7976: 7972: 7940:Michael Bednarek 7905: 7899: 7895: 7889: 7885: 7879: 7875: 7863: 7854: 7850: 7806: 7785: 7781: 7772: 7764: 7763: 7748: 7727: 7718: 7710: 7709: 7615: 7561: 7536: 7491: 7485: 7460: 7429: 7416: 7412: 7408: 7407: 7402: 7388: 7354: 7350: 7336: 7335: 7329: 7312: 7308: 7305: 7297: 7285: 7276: 7272: 7256: 7252: 7249: 7241: 7219: 7198: 7077: 7073: 7072: 7032: 7026: 6987: 6986: 6963: 6962: 6939: 6938: 6919: 6915: 6909: 6895: 6891: 6877: 6876: 6870: 6825: 6823: 6813: 6788: 6782: 6770: 6717: 6713: 6603:on this matter. 6564: 6520: 6515: 6470: 6401: 6372: 6367: 6363: 6359: 6330: 6326:Infobox criminal 6324: 6320: 6250: 6164: 6150: 6141: 6137: 6130: 6124: 6120: 6114: 6043: 6039: 6031: 5993: 5972: 5963: 5959: 5949: 5945: 5824: 5767: 5758: 5754: 5723: 5719: 5556: 5550: 5538: 5534: 5530: 5517:The question of 5500:Santiago Claudio 5478: 5282:disappeared_date 5265: 5253: 5241: 5229: 5205:honorific_suffix 5202: 5195:honorific_prefix 5191: 5190: 5163: 5068:disappeared_date 5051: 5039: 5027: 5003:honorific_suffix 5000: 4993:honorific_prefix 4989: 4988: 4983:Suggested order 4977: 4976: 4966: 4945: 4941: 4937: 4850: 4846: 4842: 4760: 4492:Michael Bednarek 4477: 4456: 4320: 4288: 4282: 4257: 4221: 4160:Sarah Joy Brown, 4145: 4141: 4139: 4122: 4121: 4116: 4042: 4038: 4036: 4015: 4014: 4009: 3933: 3929: 3927: 3910: 3909: 3903:Infobox examples 3899: 3898: 3852: 3831: 3814: 3799:Francis Schonken 3729: 3666: 3633: 3632: 3629: 3625: 3624: 3590: 3587: 3549: 3546: 3511: 3502: 3498: 3480: 3477: 3398: 3378:as per Kraxler. 3302: 3298: 3294: 3290: 3280: 3277: 3274: 3270: 3267: 3264: 3261: 3258: 3255: 3201: 3197: 3167: 3098: 3097:<caption: --> 3094: 3058: 3041: 3015: 2924: 2879:Elizabeth Taylor 2841: 2808: 2802: 2799: 2796: 2793: 2783: 2765: 2722: 2640: 2634: 2631: 2628: 2625: 2603: 2587: 2559:(née Robins)", " 2546: 2473: 2361: 2314: 2294: 2288: 2285: 2282: 2279: 2260: 2241: 2235: 2232: 2229: 2226: 2204: 2126: 2094: 2085: 2050: 2044: 2041: 2038: 2035: 1986: 1980: 1977: 1974: 1971: 1918: 1912: 1909: 1906: 1903: 1893: 1872: 1866: 1863: 1860: 1857: 1843: 1786: 1780: 1777: 1774: 1771: 1753: 1747: 1744: 1741: 1738: 1713: 1707: 1692: 1678: 1654: 1619: 1613: 1610: 1607: 1604: 1572: 1276:personal affront 1213: 1166: 1099: 1095: 1089: 1017: 998: 981: 903: 844: 841: 834: 809: 801: 787: 781: 776: 766: 721: 712: 708: 690: 681: 677: 565: 562: 506: 497: 493: 477: 468: 464: 458:,` for brevity. 402: 299:WP:NOT#DIRECTORY 204: 182: 179: 145: 142: 81: 56: 55: 33: 32: 26: 8024: 8023: 8019: 8018: 8017: 8015: 8014: 8013: 7974: 7968: 7967: 7903: 7897: 7893: 7887: 7883: 7877: 7869: 7852: 7846: 7845: 7815: 7813:Age and infants 7804: 7787: 7783: 7779: 7773: 7770: 7768: 7761: 7757: 7746: 7729: 7725: 7719: 7716: 7714: 7707: 7703: 7654: 7622:John of Reading 7609: 7592: 7555: 7530: 7489: 7483: 7473: 7442: 7423: 7414: 7405: 7403: 7396: 7370: 7352: 7348: 7333: 7327: 7310: 7301: 7293: 7274: 7268: 7267: 7254: 7245: 7237: 7233:Thorvald Astrup 7229: 7217: 7200: 7196: 7100: 7070: 7068: 7030: 7024: 7012:Have a look at 6992: 6968: 6944: 6917: 6913: 6907: 6893: 6889: 6874: 6868: 6821: 6819: 6815: 6811: 6786: 6780: 6768: 6751: 6715: 6711: 6641: 6578: 6562: 6539: 6510: 6480: 6468: 6451: 6411: 6399: 6382: 6370: 6365: 6361: 6357: 6349: 6333:John of Reading 6328: 6322: 6314: 6287: 6285:Errors reported 6248: 6230:Module:Wikidata 6167:Module:Wikidata 6158: 6139: 6133: 6132: 6128: 6122: 6118: 6112: 6068: 6041: 6037: 6027: 6007:Module:Wikidata 5961: 5955: 5954: 5947: 5943: 5892: 5827:John of Reading 5822: 5756: 5750: 5749: 5721: 5713: 5554: 5548: 5537:|resting_place= 5536: 5532: 5526: 5525:. I've created 5515: 5488: 5476: 5459: 5330:body_discovered 5326:Body discovered 5261: 5249: 5237: 5225: 5217: 5198: 5159: 5116:body_discovered 5112:Body discovered 5047: 5035: 5023: 5015: 4996: 4975: 4964: 4947: 4943: 4939: 4935: 4928: 4865: 4840: 4837: 4835:Using footnotes 4806: 4779: 4769: 4758: 4750: 4604:reliable source 4474: 4454: 4437: 4313: 4286: 4280: 4277: 4271: 4255: 4238: 4230: 4218: 4216: 4213: 4152: 4143: 4137: 4135: 4127: 4113: 4111: 4108: 4049: 4040: 4034: 4032: 4030: 4029:Sarah Joy Brown 4020: 4006: 4004: 4001: 3940: 3931: 3925: 3923: 3915: 3914:Sarah Joy Brown 3904: 3863:Sarah Joy Brown 3850: 3833: 3829: 3784: 3759:Sarah Joy Brown 3718: 3673:Sarah Joy Brown 3663: 3661: 3658: 3650: 3647:Sarah Joy Brown 3638: 3637:Sarah Joy Brown 3623:Sarah Joy Brown 3622: 3621: 3603: 3586: 3545: 3500: 3494: 3493: 3476: 3452: 3396: 3379: 3301:|notable_works= 3300: 3296: 3292: 3286: 3283: 3282: 3278: 3275: 3272: 3268: 3265: 3262: 3259: 3256: 3253: 3252:| label33 = 3200:|notable_works= 3199: 3195: 3181: 3179:Works parameter 3165: 3145:Kevin Federline 3125: 3096: 3092: 3005: 3000: 2999: 2941:Hillary Clinton 2922: 2905: 2871:Hillary Clinton 2839: 2822: 2800: 2797: 2794: 2791: 2777: 2775: 2763: 2746: 2720: 2703: 2632: 2629: 2626: 2623: 2597: 2585: 2568: 2544: 2527: 2507: 2466: 2421:Some examples: 2286: 2283: 2280: 2277: 2272:Hillary Clinton 2270:Her article is 2233: 2230: 2227: 2224: 2215: 2087: 2081: 2074: 2042: 2039: 2036: 2033: 2020:Stephan Colbert 2002: 1978: 1975: 1972: 1969: 1910: 1907: 1904: 1901: 1889: 1864: 1861: 1858: 1855: 1837: 1778: 1775: 1772: 1769: 1745: 1742: 1739: 1736: 1720:Stephen Hawking 1711: 1705: 1697: 1690: 1674: 1664: 1652: 1635: 1611: 1608: 1605: 1602: 1582: 1570: 1553: 1490:WP:ITSIMPORTANT 1187: 1160: 1097: 1093: 1087: 1015: 996: 993: 979: 962: 913: 901: 884: 850: 832: 815: 807: 799: 795:Richard Dawkins 783: 777:Religion -: --> 764: 747: 733: 710: 704: 703: 679: 673: 672: 560: 495: 489: 488: 487:, for brevity. 466: 460: 459: 451: 417:Reliable Source 400: 383: 356:Michael Jackson 333:Reliable Source 220: 197: 184:problem solving 177: 147:problem solving 140: 131: 108: 77: 30: 22: 21: 20: 12: 11: 5: 8022: 8012: 8011: 8010: 8009: 8008: 8007: 8006: 8005: 7991: 7989: 7964: 7937: 7891:age for infant 7867: 7814: 7811: 7802: 7759: 7756: 7753: 7744: 7705: 7702: 7699: 7698: 7697: 7685:, you know. -- 7679: 7653: 7650: 7649: 7648: 7647: 7646: 7591: 7588: 7587: 7586: 7585: 7584: 7583: 7582: 7472: 7469: 7468: 7467: 7466: 7465: 7440:Capankajsmilyo 7426: 7399:Capankajsmilyo 7368:Capankajsmilyo 7361: 7360: 7337: 7326: 7323: 7322: 7321: 7320: 7319: 7228: 7225: 7224: 7223: 7215: 7193: 7192: 7191: 7190: 7189: 7188: 7187: 7159: 7143: 7099: 7096: 7095: 7094: 7093: 7092: 7091: 7090: 7034: 7021: 7007: 7006: 7003: 6999: 6998: 6994: 6993: 6990: 6983: 6982: 6979: 6975: 6974: 6970: 6969: 6966: 6959: 6958: 6955: 6951: 6950: 6946: 6945: 6942: 6916:is filled but 6914:|denomination= 6908:|denomination= 6902: 6901: 6878: 6867: 6864: 6863: 6862: 6814: 6809: 6808: 6807: 6806: 6805: 6804: 6803: 6802: 6801: 6776: 6766: 6748: 6732: 6708: 6681: 6676: 6674: 6669: 6664: 6659: 6657: 6652: 6640: 6637: 6636: 6635: 6634: 6633: 6577: 6574: 6573: 6572: 6538: 6535: 6509: 6506: 6479: 6476: 6475: 6474: 6466: 6410: 6407: 6406: 6405: 6397: 6348: 6345: 6344: 6343: 6321:I have edited 6302: 6301: 6298: 6286: 6283: 6282: 6281: 6280: 6279: 6278: 6277: 6276: 6275: 6256: 6255: 6254: 6251: 6226: 6209: 6200: 6199: 6198: 6197: 6156: 6067: 6064: 6063: 6062: 6061: 6060: 6059: 6058: 6057: 6056: 6024: 5989: 5940: 5891: 5888: 5887: 5886: 5885: 5884: 5883: 5882: 5881: 5880: 5879: 5878: 5877: 5876: 5875: 5874: 5746: 5745: 5744: 5743: 5742: 5741: 5740: 5722:|burial_place= 5693: 5670: 5648: 5644: 5643: 5642: 5641: 5640: 5594:, rather than 5552:Infobox person 5521:was raised at 5514: 5511: 5487: 5484: 5483: 5482: 5474: 5456: 5398:Currently the 5395: 5391: 5390: 5387: 5386: 5381: 5377: 5376: 5371: 5367: 5366: 5361: 5357: 5356: 5351: 5347: 5346: 5342: 5337: 5333: 5332: 5327: 5323: 5322: 5317: 5316:Cause of death 5313: 5312: 5308: 5303: 5299: 5298: 5293: 5289: 5288: 5284: 5279: 5275: 5274: 5270: 5266: 5259: 5255: 5254: 5247: 5243: 5242: 5235: 5231: 5230: 5223: 5219: 5218: 5212: 5208: 5207: 5203: 5197: 5188: 5185: 5184: 5179: 5175: 5174: 5169: 5165: 5164: 5157: 5153: 5152: 5147: 5143: 5142: 5137: 5133: 5132: 5128: 5123: 5119: 5118: 5113: 5109: 5108: 5103: 5102:Cause of death 5099: 5098: 5094: 5089: 5085: 5084: 5079: 5075: 5074: 5070: 5065: 5061: 5060: 5056: 5052: 5045: 5041: 5040: 5033: 5029: 5028: 5021: 5017: 5016: 5010: 5006: 5005: 5001: 4995: 4985: 4984: 4981: 4974: 4971: 4962: 4927: 4924: 4913:151.177.62.155 4888:151.177.62.155 4881:Franz Schubert 4864: 4861: 4836: 4833: 4832: 4831: 4805: 4802: 4778: 4775: 4767: 4749: 4746: 4745: 4744: 4743: 4742: 4741: 4740: 4739: 4738: 4703: 4702: 4690: 4662: 4624: 4623: 4591: 4590: 4582: 4581: 4566: 4565: 4564: 4563: 4562: 4561: 4560: 4559: 4558: 4557: 4467: 4466: 4465: 4464: 4463: 4462: 4461: 4460: 4452: 4419: 4362: 4361: 4360: 4359: 4345: 4336:counsels that 4327: 4326: 4270: 4267: 4266: 4265: 4264: 4263: 4262: 4261: 4253: 4227: 4226: 4223: 4222: 4211: 4207: 4206: 4203: 4199: 4198: 4193: 4189: 4188: 4185: 4181: 4180: 4168: 4164: 4163: 4162:Sarah J. Brown 4161: 4158: 4154: 4153: 4147: 4146: 4133: 4129: 4128: 4125: 4118: 4117: 4106: 4102: 4101: 4098: 4094: 4093: 4088: 4084: 4083: 4080: 4076: 4075: 4063: 4059: 4058: 4057:Sarah J. Brown 4055: 4051: 4050: 4044: 4043: 4031: 4028: 4026: 4022: 4021: 4018: 4011: 4010: 3999: 3995: 3994: 3991: 3987: 3986: 3981: 3977: 3976: 3973: 3969: 3968: 3956: 3952: 3951: 3950:Sarah J. Brown 3949: 3946: 3942: 3941: 3935: 3934: 3921: 3917: 3916: 3913: 3906: 3905: 3902: 3897: 3896: 3895: 3894: 3893: 3892: 3891: 3885: 3848: 3755: 3754: 3753: 3747: 3739: 3737: 3733: 3727: 3726: 3725: 3724: 3723: 3722: 3721: 3720: 3719: 3714: 3696: 3695: 3694: 3688: 3668: 3667: 3656: 3652: 3651: 3648: 3646: 3644: 3640: 3639: 3636: 3627: 3616: 3615: 3602: 3599: 3598: 3597: 3596: 3595: 3541: 3540: 3537: 3530: 3527: 3516: 3515: 3472:Infobox person 3451: 3446: 3445: 3444: 3443: 3442: 3441: 3440: 3439: 3438: 3403: 3402: 3394: 3372: 3371: 3357:Carmina Burana 3345: 3344: 3251: 3242: 3241: 3229: 3228: 3180: 3177: 3176: 3175: 3174: 3173: 3149:162.245.132.25 3130:162.245.132.25 3124: 3121: 3090: 3089: 3088: 3087: 3086: 3085: 3075:Sunshineisles2 3066: 3065: 3064: 3063: 3049: 3048: 3047: 3046: 3025:Sunshineisles2 3004: 3003:Above to title 3001: 2993: 2992: 2991: 2973: 2955: 2930: 2929: 2928: 2920: 2875:Michelle Obama 2864: 2846: 2845: 2837: 2774: 2771: 2770: 2769: 2761: 2731: 2730: 2729: 2728: 2727: 2726: 2718: 2668: 2592: 2591: 2583: 2542: 2520: 2519: 2506: 2499: 2498: 2497: 2479: 2458: 2457: 2456: 2455: 2445: 2416: 2415: 2392: 2378:Richard Burton 2371: 2370: 2369: 2328: 2327: 2326: 2325: 2324: 2323: 2322: 2214: 2211: 2210: 2209: 2195: 2168: 2151: 2134: 2114: 2098: 2073: 2070: 2069: 2068: 2001: 1998: 1997: 1996: 1959: 1958: 1935: 1934: 1933: 1932: 1931: 1930: 1929: 1928: 1830: 1829: 1828: 1827: 1797: 1796: 1709:Infobox person 1698: 1686: 1685: 1684: 1665: 1663: 1660: 1659: 1658: 1650: 1630: 1629: 1581: 1578: 1577: 1576: 1568: 1530: 1529: 1528: 1527: 1494:WP:COMMONSENSE 1455: 1454: 1453: 1452: 1451: 1450: 1449: 1448: 1447: 1446: 1445: 1444: 1443: 1442: 1441: 1440: 1439: 1438: 1437: 1436: 1435: 1434: 1433: 1432: 1431: 1430: 1158: 1157: 1156: 1155: 1154: 1153: 1152: 1151: 1150: 1149: 1148: 1147: 1146: 1145: 992: 989: 988: 987: 986: 985: 977: 912: 909: 908: 907: 899: 881: 849: 846: 830: 800:|reltophil=yes 792: 782: 772: 771: 770: 762: 732: 729: 728: 727: 726: 725: 696: 695: 694: 637: 636: 635: 634: 633: 584: 570: 522:Charles Darwin 511: 510: 481: 450: 447: 407: 406: 398: 381: 374: 367: 325: 324: 306: 295: 292: 285: 282: 279: 272: 271: 270: 219: 216: 215: 214: 213: 212: 211: 210: 130: 127: 107: 104: 101: 100: 95: 92: 87: 82: 75: 70: 65: 62: 52: 51: 34: 15: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 8021: 8004: 8000: 7996: 7992: 7990: 7988: 7984: 7980: 7975:Pigsonthewing 7971: 7965: 7963: 7959: 7955: 7951: 7950: 7949: 7945: 7941: 7935: 7933: 7932: 7931: 7927: 7923: 7919: 7918: 7917: 7913: 7909: 7902: 7892: 7882: 7873: 7868: 7866: 7862: 7858: 7853:Pigsonthewing 7849: 7843: 7842:temporary fix 7839: 7835: 7834: 7833: 7832: 7828: 7824: 7820: 7810: 7809: 7800: 7797: 7794: 7792: 7777: 7767: 7752: 7751: 7742: 7739: 7736: 7734: 7723: 7713: 7696: 7692: 7688: 7684: 7680: 7678: 7677: 7676: 7675: 7671: 7667: 7663: 7659: 7645: 7641: 7637: 7633: 7632: 7631: 7627: 7623: 7619: 7613: 7608: 7607: 7606: 7605: 7601: 7597: 7581: 7577: 7573: 7569: 7565: 7559: 7554: 7553: 7552: 7548: 7544: 7540: 7534: 7529: 7528: 7527: 7523: 7519: 7515: 7510: 7509: 7508: 7507: 7503: 7499: 7495: 7488: 7481: 7477: 7464: 7461: 7458: 7455: 7452: 7449: 7446: 7441: 7436: 7435: 7434: 7430: 7428: 7420: 7411: 7400: 7395: 7394: 7393: 7392: 7389: 7386: 7383: 7380: 7377: 7374: 7369: 7358: 7355:parameter to 7346: 7342: 7338: 7331: 7330: 7318: 7313: 7306: 7304: 7298: 7296: 7290: 7289: 7288: 7284: 7280: 7275:Pigsonthewing 7271: 7265: 7264: 7263: 7262: 7257: 7250: 7248: 7242: 7240: 7234: 7222: 7213: 7210: 7207: 7205: 7194: 7186: 7182: 7178: 7174: 7173: 7172: 7168: 7164: 7160: 7158: 7157: 7156: 7152: 7148: 7144: 7142: 7141: 7140: 7136: 7132: 7128: 7127: 7126: 7125: 7121: 7117: 7113: 7109: 7105: 7089: 7085: 7081: 7076: 7067: 7066: 7065: 7061: 7057: 7053: 7049: 7048: 7047: 7043: 7039: 7035: 7029: 7022: 7019: 7015: 7011: 7010: 7004: 7000: 6995: 6988: 6980: 6976: 6971: 6964: 6956: 6952: 6947: 6940: 6937: 6936: 6932: 6928: 6924: 6899: 6896:parameter to 6887: 6883: 6879: 6872: 6871: 6861: 6857: 6856: 6851: 6850: 6845: 6844: 6839: 6838: 6837: 6836: 6833: 6831: 6826: 6824: 6800: 6796: 6792: 6785: 6777: 6775: 6774: 6773: 6764: 6761: 6758: 6756: 6749: 6747: 6746: 6745: 6741: 6737: 6733: 6731: 6730: 6729: 6725: 6721: 6709: 6707: 6706: 6705: 6704: 6700: 6696: 6691: 6689: 6683: 6679: 6672: 6667: 6662: 6655: 6651: 6647: 6645: 6632: 6628: 6624: 6620: 6616: 6615: 6614: 6610: 6606: 6602: 6598: 6597: 6596: 6595: 6591: 6587: 6583: 6571: 6568: 6565: 6559: 6558: 6557: 6556: 6552: 6548: 6544: 6534: 6533: 6528: 6524: 6519: 6505: 6504: 6500: 6496: 6491: 6489: 6485: 6473: 6464: 6461: 6458: 6456: 6448: 6447: 6446: 6445: 6441: 6437: 6432: 6429: 6428: 6424: 6420: 6416: 6404: 6395: 6392: 6389: 6387: 6379: 6378: 6377: 6376: 6373: 6368: 6360: 6354: 6347:Listing twins 6342: 6338: 6334: 6327: 6318: 6313: 6312: 6311: 6310: 6307: 6299: 6296: 6295: 6294: 6292: 6289:When editing 6274: 6270: 6266: 6262: 6257: 6252: 6247: 6246: 6244: 6240: 6236: 6231: 6227: 6225: 6224: 6223: 6219: 6215: 6210: 6206: 6205: 6204: 6203: 6202: 6201: 6196: 6192: 6188: 6184: 6180: 6176: 6172: 6168: 6162: 6157: 6155: 6154: 6153: 6149: 6145: 6140:Pigsonthewing 6136: 6127: 6117: 6110: 6106: 6105: 6104: 6103: 6100: 6097: 6091: 6089: 6088:Wikidata item 6083: 6081: 6077: 6073: 6055: 6051: 6047: 6035: 6030: 6029:applied a fix 6025: 6023: 6022: 6021: 6017: 6013: 6008: 6004: 5997: 5996:edit conflict 5992: 5991: 5990: 5988: 5985: 5982: 5977: 5976: 5975: 5971: 5967: 5962:Pigsonthewing 5958: 5952: 5941: 5939: 5936: 5933: 5929: 5925: 5924: 5923: 5922: 5919: 5916: 5911: 5909: 5905: 5901: 5897: 5873: 5869: 5865: 5864:2.242.155.168 5861: 5857: 5856: 5855: 5851: 5847: 5842: 5838: 5837: 5836: 5832: 5828: 5820: 5819: 5818: 5814: 5810: 5806: 5805: 5804: 5800: 5796: 5792: 5791: 5786: 5785: 5784: 5780: 5776: 5772: 5771: 5770: 5766: 5762: 5757:Pigsonthewing 5753: 5747: 5739: 5735: 5731: 5727: 5717: 5712: 5711: 5710: 5706: 5702: 5698: 5694: 5691: 5690: 5689: 5685: 5681: 5676: 5671: 5667: 5663: 5662: 5661: 5657: 5653: 5649: 5645: 5639: 5635: 5631: 5626: 5622: 5618: 5614: 5613: 5612: 5609: 5605: 5601: 5597: 5593: 5589: 5585: 5584: 5583: 5579: 5575: 5574:86.151.106.59 5571: 5570: 5569: 5568: 5564: 5560: 5553: 5546: 5542: 5531:that accepts 5529: 5524: 5520: 5510: 5509: 5505: 5501: 5497: 5493: 5481: 5472: 5469: 5466: 5464: 5457: 5455: 5452: 5448: 5444: 5443: 5442: 5441: 5437: 5433: 5429: 5425: 5424:pronunciation 5421: 5417: 5413: 5409: 5408:pronunciation 5405: 5401: 5396: 5385: 5382: 5378: 5375: 5372: 5368: 5365: 5362: 5358: 5355: 5352: 5348: 5345: 5341: 5338: 5334: 5331: 5328: 5324: 5321: 5318: 5314: 5311: 5307: 5304: 5300: 5297: 5294: 5290: 5287: 5283: 5280: 5276: 5273: 5269: 5264: 5260: 5256: 5252: 5248: 5244: 5240: 5239:pronunciation 5236: 5234:Pronunciation 5232: 5228: 5224: 5220: 5215: 5209: 5206: 5201: 5196: 5192: 5189: 5183: 5180: 5176: 5173: 5170: 5166: 5162: 5158: 5154: 5151: 5148: 5144: 5141: 5138: 5134: 5131: 5127: 5124: 5120: 5117: 5114: 5110: 5107: 5104: 5100: 5097: 5093: 5090: 5086: 5083: 5080: 5076: 5073: 5069: 5066: 5062: 5059: 5055: 5050: 5046: 5042: 5038: 5037:pronunciation 5034: 5032:Pronunciation 5030: 5026: 5022: 5018: 5013: 5007: 5004: 4999: 4994: 4990: 4987: 4986: 4982: 4980:Current order 4979: 4978: 4970: 4969: 4960: 4957: 4954: 4952: 4933: 4923: 4922: 4918: 4914: 4909: 4907: 4903: 4898: 4897: 4893: 4889: 4884: 4882: 4878: 4874: 4870: 4860: 4859: 4854: 4849: 4830: 4826: 4822: 4818: 4817: 4816: 4814: 4810: 4801: 4800: 4796: 4792: 4788: 4784: 4774: 4773: 4770: 4764: 4761: 4755: 4737: 4733: 4729: 4724: 4723: 4722: 4718: 4714: 4710: 4709: 4707: 4706: 4705: 4704: 4701: 4698: 4696: 4691: 4689: 4686: 4684: 4680: 4675: 4671: 4667: 4663: 4661: 4657: 4653: 4649: 4645: 4641: 4640: 4639: 4638: 4635: 4633: 4629: 4622: 4619: 4617: 4613: 4609: 4605: 4601: 4597: 4593: 4592: 4588: 4584: 4583: 4580: 4576: 4572: 4568: 4567: 4556: 4552: 4548: 4544: 4543: 4542: 4538: 4534: 4531:reference. -- 4529: 4528: 4527: 4523: 4519: 4515: 4514: 4513: 4510: 4508: 4503: 4502: 4501: 4497: 4493: 4489: 4488: 4487: 4486: 4483: 4481: 4472: 4459: 4450: 4447: 4444: 4442: 4435: 4431: 4427: 4423: 4418: 4415: 4412: 4408: 4403: 4399: 4395: 4391: 4390: 4389: 4385: 4381: 4377: 4373: 4368: 4367: 4366: 4365: 4364: 4363: 4358: 4354: 4350: 4346: 4343: 4339: 4335: 4332:Essentially, 4331: 4330: 4329: 4328: 4325: 4321: 4319: 4318: 4309: 4308: 4307: 4306: 4303: 4301: 4296: 4292: 4285: 4276: 4269:Date of birth 4260: 4251: 4248: 4245: 4243: 4236: 4235: 4234: 4233: 4232: 4231: 4220: 4212: 4208: 4204: 4200: 4197: 4194: 4190: 4186: 4182: 4179: 4176: 4172: 4169: 4167:Occupation(s) 4165: 4159: 4155: 4150: 4134: 4130: 4123: 4115: 4107: 4103: 4099: 4095: 4092: 4089: 4085: 4081: 4077: 4074: 4071: 4067: 4064: 4062:Occupation(s) 4060: 4056: 4052: 4047: 4027: 4023: 4016: 4008: 4000: 3996: 3992: 3988: 3985: 3982: 3978: 3974: 3970: 3967: 3964: 3960: 3957: 3955:Occupation(s) 3953: 3947: 3943: 3938: 3922: 3918: 3911: 3908: 3907: 3901: 3900: 3889: 3883: 3880: 3879:WP:COMMONNAME 3876: 3875: 3874: 3871: 3868: 3864: 3860: 3857: 3856: 3855: 3846: 3843: 3840: 3838: 3830:|other_names= 3828: 3827: 3826: 3825: 3822: 3819: 3815: 3812: 3808: 3804: 3803:In ictu oculi 3800: 3796: 3792: 3788: 3781: 3779: 3775: 3774:Also known as 3771: 3768:In place of " 3766: 3764: 3760: 3750: 3749: 3748: 3744: 3742: 3736: 3732: 3717: 3713: 3712: 3711: 3710: 3709: 3708: 3707: 3706: 3705: 3702: 3699: 3691: 3690: 3689: 3685: 3683: 3681: 3678: 3674: 3665: 3657: 3653: 3645: 3641: 3634: 3631: 3626: 3619: 3614: 3613: 3608: 3607: 3606: 3594: 3591: 3583: 3579: 3575: 3571: 3570: 3569: 3565: 3561: 3556: 3555: 3554: 3553: 3550: 3538: 3535: 3531: 3528: 3525: 3524: 3523: 3521: 3514: 3510: 3506: 3501:Pigsonthewing 3497: 3491: 3487: 3486: 3485: 3484: 3481: 3473: 3469: 3465: 3463: 3457: 3450: 3437: 3433: 3429: 3425: 3424: 3423: 3422: 3421: 3420: 3419: 3418: 3417: 3416: 3412: 3408: 3401: 3392: 3389: 3386: 3384: 3377: 3374: 3373: 3370: 3366: 3362: 3358: 3354: 3350: 3347: 3346: 3343: 3339: 3335: 3331: 3328: 3327: 3326: 3325: 3321: 3317: 3313: 3308: 3306: 3289: 3249: 3247: 3240: 3237: 3234: 3233: 3232: 3227: 3224: 3221: 3220: 3219: 3217: 3213: 3209: 3205: 3192: 3190: 3186: 3172: 3169: 3168: 3160: 3159: 3158: 3154: 3150: 3146: 3142: 3141: 3140: 3139: 3135: 3131: 3120: 3119: 3115: 3111: 3106: 3102: 3101:accessibility 3084: 3080: 3076: 3072: 3071: 3070: 3069: 3068: 3067: 3062: 3057: 3053: 3052: 3051: 3050: 3045: 3040: 3036: 3035: 3034: 3030: 3026: 3022: 3021: 3020: 3019: 3014: 3010: 2997: 2990: 2986: 2982: 2977: 2974: 2972: 2968: 2964: 2959: 2956: 2954: 2950: 2946: 2942: 2938: 2937:WP:COMMONNAME 2934: 2931: 2927: 2918: 2915: 2912: 2910: 2903: 2899: 2898: 2897: 2893: 2889: 2884: 2880: 2876: 2872: 2868: 2865: 2863: 2859: 2855: 2854:FoCuSandLeArN 2851: 2848: 2847: 2844: 2835: 2832: 2829: 2827: 2820: 2819: 2818: 2817: 2812: 2807: 2804: 2803: 2787: 2781: 2768: 2759: 2756: 2753: 2751: 2744: 2740: 2736: 2735:Clarification 2733: 2732: 2725: 2716: 2713: 2710: 2708: 2701: 2697: 2693: 2689: 2685: 2680: 2676: 2672: 2667:while a child 2666: 2664: 2659: 2655: 2651: 2650: 2649: 2644: 2639: 2636: 2635: 2619: 2615: 2613: 2609: 2601: 2596: 2595: 2594: 2593: 2590: 2581: 2578: 2575: 2573: 2566: 2562: 2558: 2554: 2550: 2549:Clarification 2540: 2537: 2534: 2532: 2525: 2522: 2521: 2517: 2513: 2509: 2508: 2504: 2496: 2492: 2488: 2483: 2480: 2478: 2474: 2472: 2471: 2463: 2460: 2459: 2454: 2451: 2446: 2444: 2440: 2436: 2432: 2428: 2424: 2420: 2419: 2418: 2417: 2414: 2411: 2407: 2403: 2402:WP:COMMONNAME 2399: 2398:Conditionally 2396: 2393: 2391: 2387: 2383: 2379: 2375: 2372: 2368: 2364: 2358: 2353: 2349: 2348: 2347: 2344: 2340: 2337: 2332: 2329: 2321: 2317: 2311: 2305: 2304: 2303: 2298: 2293: 2290: 2289: 2273: 2269: 2268: 2267: 2263: 2257: 2252: 2251: 2250: 2245: 2240: 2237: 2236: 2220: 2217: 2216: 2208: 2203: 2199: 2196: 2194: 2190: 2189: 2184: 2183: 2178: 2177: 2172: 2169: 2167: 2163: 2159: 2155: 2152: 2150: 2146: 2142: 2138: 2135: 2133: 2129: 2123: 2118: 2115: 2113: 2110: 2106: 2102: 2099: 2097: 2093: 2090: 2084: 2079: 2076: 2075: 2066: 2062: 2061: 2060: 2059: 2054: 2049: 2046: 2045: 2029: 2025: 2021: 2017: 2012: 2010: 2005: 1995: 1990: 1985: 1982: 1981: 1965: 1961: 1960: 1957: 1954: 1950: 1945: 1944:WP:COMMONNAME 1941: 1937: 1936: 1927: 1922: 1917: 1914: 1913: 1897: 1892: 1887: 1883: 1882: 1881: 1876: 1871: 1868: 1867: 1851: 1847: 1841: 1836: 1835: 1834: 1833: 1832: 1831: 1826: 1822: 1818: 1814: 1809: 1805: 1801: 1800: 1799: 1798: 1795: 1790: 1785: 1782: 1781: 1765: 1764: 1763: 1762: 1757: 1752: 1749: 1748: 1730: 1728: 1723: 1721: 1717: 1710: 1703: 1696: 1693: 1683: 1680: 1677: 1672: 1667: 1666: 1657: 1648: 1645: 1642: 1640: 1632: 1631: 1628: 1623: 1618: 1615: 1614: 1598: 1597: 1596: 1595: 1591: 1587: 1575: 1566: 1563: 1560: 1558: 1551: 1546: 1545: 1544: 1543: 1539: 1535: 1526: 1522: 1518: 1514: 1509: 1508: 1507: 1503: 1499: 1495: 1491: 1487: 1483: 1482: 1481: 1480: 1476: 1472: 1468: 1465:of the edit? 1464: 1460: 1427: 1426: 1425: 1421: 1417: 1413: 1412: 1411: 1407: 1403: 1399: 1395: 1394: 1393: 1389: 1385: 1381: 1376: 1375: 1374: 1370: 1366: 1362: 1358: 1354: 1350: 1349: 1348: 1344: 1340: 1336: 1335: 1334: 1330: 1326: 1322: 1321: 1320: 1316: 1312: 1308: 1303: 1299: 1295: 1294: 1293: 1289: 1285: 1281: 1277: 1273: 1272: 1271: 1267: 1263: 1259: 1258: 1257: 1253: 1249: 1245: 1241: 1240: 1239: 1235: 1231: 1227: 1226: 1225: 1221: 1217: 1211: 1207: 1203: 1199: 1195: 1194:Pigsonthewing 1191: 1185: 1184: 1183: 1182: 1178: 1174: 1170: 1164: 1144: 1140: 1136: 1132: 1127: 1126: 1125: 1121: 1117: 1113: 1112: 1111: 1107: 1103: 1092: 1085: 1084: 1083: 1079: 1075: 1071: 1067: 1063: 1059: 1058: 1057: 1053: 1049: 1045: 1044: 1043: 1039: 1035: 1031: 1030: 1029: 1025: 1021: 1013: 1012: 1011: 1010: 1006: 1002: 984: 975: 972: 969: 967: 959: 955: 951: 947: 946: 945: 941: 937: 933: 929: 928: 927: 926: 922: 918: 906: 897: 894: 891: 889: 882: 880: 876: 872: 867: 866: 865: 864: 860: 856: 845: 838: 828: 825: 822: 820: 813: 805: 796: 790: 769: 760: 757: 754: 752: 745: 744: 743: 742: 739: 724: 720: 716: 711:Pigsonthewing 707: 701: 697: 693: 689: 685: 680:Pigsonthewing 676: 670: 669: 668: 664: 660: 656: 655: 650: 649: 648: 645: 642: 638: 632: 628: 624: 621:us to exist. 620: 615: 611: 610: 609: 606: 603: 599: 598: 597: 593: 589: 585: 583: 579: 575: 574:Objective3000 571: 569: 566: 556: 555: 554: 553: 550: 547: 543: 540: 538: 532: 529: 526: 523: 520:Many people, 518: 514: 509: 505: 501: 496:Pigsonthewing 492: 486: 482: 480: 476: 472: 467:Pigsonthewing 463: 457: 453: 452: 449:Systemic bias 446: 445: 441: 437: 432: 431: 427: 423: 419: 418: 412: 405: 396: 393: 390: 388: 382: 379: 375: 372: 368: 365: 361: 357: 353: 349: 348: 347: 346: 342: 338: 334: 330: 323: 319: 315: 311: 307: 304: 300: 296: 293: 290: 286: 283: 280: 277: 273: 269: 265: 261: 256: 255: 254: 250: 245: 244: 243: 242: 238: 234: 230: 225: 209: 205: 203: 202: 194: 191: 190: 189: 185: 181: 180: 173: 169: 168: 167: 163: 159: 155: 154: 153: 152: 148: 144: 143: 134: 126: 125: 121: 117: 113: 110:RfC moved to 99: 96: 93: 91: 88: 86: 83: 80: 76: 74: 71: 69: 66: 63: 61: 58: 57: 49: 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