1142:. We have already included the Crimean invasion which has nothing to do with the events in Donetsk but is related to the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine. In the same way, the Odessa clashes have nothing to do with the Crimean invasion or the Donetsk operations but is related to the overall 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine, which is in fact the name of this campaignbox. If we were to follow your logic, than we should remove the Crimean links as well, don't we? But back to the point, your argument is invalid since this box is not reserved exclusively for Donetsk, but for all armed clashes of the overall unrest in Ukraine. We separated the Crimean events in the box from the Donetsk events with brackets because they are two different fronts/areas of events of the same conflict, as such, Odessa would be on its own in the box as a separate area of events from Donetsk and the Crimea.
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2657:, and I won't care. If it was a sidebar, you could put whatever you like in it. This box is meant for military campaigns, and says so in the title of the box itself. Furthermore, the military conflict infobox includes a special parameter for campaignboxes, implying that it is meant for military conflicts. Odessa was not a military conflict, nor is the unrest overall a "military conflict". It is not an armed conflict, except in Donetsk. If you want to call this an armed conflict, I ask you to do the same for Euromaidan. However, that would equally misleading, because it does not capture the full picture of events. I will not tolerate the proliferation of misinformation in code or in text. So, if you'd like to have a sidebar with everything in it, like the Russo-Georgian war one, or the Crimean crisis one, fine. But I shan't tolerate a campaignbox.
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2955:); and I've explained to him that I did not place the Russian intervention article within Crimea's brackets and bolded it to maintain its separate status in the conflict because we apparently both agree that although the intervention started during the Crimean crisis it also contains material about the war in Donbass. I then restored the chronological version after failing to see any participation from Mondolkiri's side, but I was quickly reverted again, still insisting that "it would suggest that the Russian intervention only occurred in Crimea" which clearly ignores all the arguments and concerns that I've raised. There you go: the whole issue is here now.
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1496:"campaign". You seem to believe that there was only one campaign in the whole events while there are 3 different ones: the Russian military campaign in Crimea, the insurgents' campaign and the Ukrainian government's counter-insurgency campaign. The May 2 clashes were just part of the insurgents' wider movement in Odessa, because the trade union building wasn't the only one occupied there. I myself don't and will not object to the current compromise, but I have to say that the reasoning of not including Odessa with the other events is, no offense, weak.
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sense that bullets were flying yesterday in Odessa (armed clash) and 38 people were burned alive in that building (massacre). Also, you should look at the Syrian civil war campaignbox which includes links to individual protests/massacres that occurred there in 2011, where you had demonstrations that turned violent and led to dozens of deaths. This is similar to that. So, the link to the Odessa clashes, considering how notable it is at this point within the pro-Russian unrest in
Ukraine, should be put in the campaignbox.
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groups on the pro-Ukrainian side there, setting up checkpoints, no different than during the
Euromaidan, which notably, doesn't have a campaignbox. There is no insurgency. There has been no conflict, other than the 2 May clashes. Calling it a "massacre" is loaded with POV, and many sources dispute that. Regardless, "massacres" can take place without being part of a military campaign. You are blowing this out-of-proportion to the highest degree.
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Russian intervention above the
Donbass events and removed Novofedorivka since it looks far from being a direct military confrontation and because no such article exists about it anymore (was erroneous from the very beginning). I kept being reverted by Mondolkiri1 and after the second revert I went to his talk page, stressing that the template's items are organized chronologically (see the parameters section in
4047:, yes, you are right. If you would like to arrange those topics in the order of time sequence. But how about to place it (intervention) as a a title, while the article on the unrest to place within the parenthesis along with Crimea and Donbass. Odessa's topic could also be viewed as part of the unrest which, of course, got way out of hand. In Ukraine some people believe that invasion started during the
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links to Libya's initial protests in 2011. I can go on. That alone gives a basis for including Odessa in the campaignbox. But if that weren't enough, I would remind you that both sides during the clashes used live fire-arms and fire-bombs, in a civil war-like situation (admitted by the
Interior Minister) that we have in Ukraine that makes the Odessa event military in nature, albeit a small one.
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campaign box, not the actual title of the specific navbox created here. Its a useful format and helps readers navigate the various incidents that have occured during the conflict. The Syrian Civil War campaignbox includes various riots and protests that occured before the conflict turned into a war, i don't see why that shouldn't also be the case here. Note that
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like '2015 Mariupol rocket attack' and possibly shift to '_____ Battle of
Mariupol' (not sure which one this will be). In any case, it's a major development and I think it deserves an article, and on a side-note, so does the map of territorial control (the yellow and red one) for the war, it hasn't been updated since late November last year.
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in
Donetsk, which are only one specific part of the overall unrest. It has been referred to as part of the UNREST overall, which includes non-military and non-militant actions. I have no interest in Arabs, so I don't edit in Arab history. I edit in European history, because I am interested in European history. Do not fling
637:. Campaignboxes can include raids, operations, massacres as well as clashes with armed elements and they don't necessarily involve a country's national armed forces. As for what you believe it promotes, I can simply say that we're not obliged to give any kind of consideration to POV pushers from either side of the events.
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which it links to, THAT is the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in
Ukraine. It would imply it was part of a military campaign if it had been in the brackets of the Donetsk events, but it isn't. And saying things like that you don't care how its done elsewhere shows a disregard for Knowledge consistency based on a personal POV.
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for your input here. I note that your specialism revolves around current conflicts but, as you haven't been involved to any noticeable extent in the articles, it's useful to get an uninvolved editor's opinion. Apologies, also, if you thought I was implying that it is you who have ownership issues. My
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Normally we don't include geographical locations unless it is highly necessary in case there are multiple items that need to be grouped to avoid confusion. And like I said, the people's republic is disputed, so a better solution would be to simply say "Donetsk", but again, if needed. We can also link
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That's utter sloblock, my friend. There are no insurgents in Odessa, no insurgency whatsoever. No buildings have been occupied in Odessa Oblast. Zero. None. Nil. The Trade Unions House was the first and only building to be "occupied", and that's only because the anti-government protesters were forced
1211:. Other people's stuff about conflict being 'armed'. I never questioned that it was armed, and I don't care about 'other stuff'. What I care about is implying that the Odessa incident was part of or related to a military campaign. It wasn't. It is highly notable. That's why it is in the long existing
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is a controversial user who devotes their time on
Knowledge to inserting hysterical and polemical statements into articles using dubious sources, and creating bias spin-off articles or templates that push a Kremlinist POV. So expect a link to a Russia Today article describing the events as a massacre
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Well, it was just a thought. I've had some dealings with the
Military History Project in the past, and I don't think there are any particular fast rules (which is why the parameters are open to interpretation) as, dependent on the complexity of the campaign, they leave a fair amount of scope for the
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Wow. I didn't think it would get so convoluted. My major concern is that
Russian military intervention and Crimea don't sit on the same line (per other contributors) as does look a conflation of the subject areas. Bearing that in mind, Fitzcarmalan, I'd agree that it doesn't fit into the chronology,
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part of the overall unrest, like you said, which is now considered an armed conflict on Knowledge due to the significance of the armed element involved. The thing now is why separate them by "Other" when the events are strongly connected like this? But now that a different consensus was reached that
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Actually, per Xavier here, I am convinced that it is unnecessary to separate Odessa from the other events because EkoGraf already provided sources (for which i'm thankful) highlighting the significance of the armed element relative to the protests and I believe it doesn't matter anymore. Also, there
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is a highly notable event that is part of the overall Pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine, which this campaignbox is named after and is in existence for events related to the unrest. I will wait one more day to see what arguments you come up with but as I have seen you disregard any attempt at compromise.
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To conclude... Based on the consistency with other conflict boxes riots related to the conflict in question ARE included in the campaignboxes. Fitzcarmalan requested sources that confirm the rioters were armed and that it was in fact an armed riot, in compliance sources were provided. And this event
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Campaignboxes do not include just events of a military nature. Like you said, they also include massacres as well as clashes between armed elements and they don't necessarily involve a country's armed force. Looking at these two categories, the Odessa clashes qualify to be in the campaignbox, in the
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An alternative would be to put the Russian military intervention either before the Crimean crisis or between the Crimean crisis and the War in Donbass, because puting it on the same line as the Crimean crisis would suggest, in my opinion, that the military intervention only happened in Crimea. I'll
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was just as armed as the clashes in Odessa. Just as armed. There were arms, there were clashes. What's more, the government was involved. In fact, it is perhaps much more of an "armed" conflict than this little clash. This one has NOT been referred to as part of the military campaign and insurgency
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And you don't seem to understand that campaignboxes on Knowledge include civil riots/protests as well, or are simply ignoring the fact. And including Odessa in the box does not imply it is related to a military campaign, it imply's its related to the overall event per which the box is titled and to
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4. When I pointed out this box is for ALL events related to the overall pro-Russian unrest and stated the Odessa clashes would be separate from the Crimea and Donetsk events in the box (even attempting a compromise by proposing to note what are military operations and what are civil unrest events),
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featured in a linear manner alongside Crimea is misleading to the readers. The scope of the article in question is well outside of an easily identifiable start date. It is as much a contemporary events article as it is about introducing the subject with a brief examination of events beginning with
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That police station wasn't occupied. They got their people out, and left. It doesn't matter if they are militants (and those who stormed the police station were hardly militants), and there are plenty of other sources that will call them a variety of other colourful terms. There are "self-defence"
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You are being dense. This is a CAMPAIGN BOX. An "ARMED CLASH" can be ENACTED by CIVILIANS. That is not a "MILITARY CAMPAIGN", or a "MILITARY CONFLICT". The only MILITARY CONFLICTS in Ukraine have occurred in DONETSK and CRIMEA. There is no ODESSA PEOPLE'S ARMY, unlike the DONBASS PEOPLE'S ARMY. As
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I don't think its a full-fledged civil war ether, but that's not the topic. My point is, and I repeat, military campaignboxes are not reserved for military campaigns exclusively. The example of the Afghan protests and the Black July riots (which were civilians conflicts in your terms) being in its
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Not true. For examples look at the 2001 Afghan war campaignbox which includes a link to the 2012 Afghanistan Quran burning protests, than we got the Syrian civil war campaignbox which includes links to articles about the 2011 protests and clashes. Or the Libyan civil war campaignbox which includes
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Are there reliable sources calling this a massacre? Because in that case I might support its inclusion. If not, I will have to agree with RGloucester on this one, because protests can turn violent sometimes and become riots, but in most cases it's usually the "civil" kind that doesn't make it to a
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I apologize for including a 'future' article in the template earlier, but I am curious who is going to work on it, I will join in and help when I can, possibly even later this weekend. News agencies are already reporting 27 dead and close to a 100 injured, so maybe the article should be something
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Fine, it was unnecessary to go there from the beginning. I just chose his talk page because I noticed that the last entry here was two months ago; and there is no ownership issue here (don't know why you brought that up). Yesterday I have boldly reorganized the items chronologically by moving the
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They are reserved for events that pertain to a military campaign, even if the events are not military. However, the events in Odessa do not pertain. If you want to clarify that it was 'Unrelated civil unrest', that's fine. But do not connect Odessa to the military campaign in Donetsk. They are no
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and separated it using a horizontal separator. It appears to be the simplest solution. I don't particularly care if it's at the bottom or the top, or whether it's given another title for the purposes of clarity. It certainly doesn't belong in the 'related' section, but it's really just a related
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Not to mention that those involved in the Odessa clashes included militants from the Right Sector and militants from the pro-Russian camp, not just civilians/regular protesters, and as sources that I provided show both sides were ARMED and engaged in gun fights. Problem here is that you regard a
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I can remove Odessa from the box because I agree there's nothing militaristic about it yet. So instead of threatening to prematurely nominate everything created on Ukraine's events for deletion, try to work on it. I will not convert it to a sidebar because this is certainly an armed conflict and
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I believe that he means that we only have one article for the Donetsk insurgency, and that that article is the Republic article. I made a split proposal, but it failed. Hence, Donetsk-related events are compiled at the Republic article. It includes minor skirmishes in towns that are not notable
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When did I ever call it a massacre? I was just hinting the fact that the event is being called so and that it should not be ruled out, so please don't put words in my mouth. And again, it doesn't have to be part of a military campaign to be in a campaignbox because this can't be compared to the
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Honestly, I don't care whether the intervention article and Crimea are on the same line or not as long as they are both higlighted differently. This was my version you see on the right where I've addressed Mondolkiri1's concerns and I just find it ridiculous to put it after the Donbass events.
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The box created for use in the article is not titled campaign, theater or something else. Its titled 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine. The use of Campaignbox in the page title is merely for template coding purposes. I don't see what the controversy is here. The template type is merely called
1251:
Like I said, it can only go in if it is clearly delineated as not being part of any military campaign. For example, with a header like "Other related incidents". The smartest thing to do, however, would be to convert it into a normal sidebar. If you haven't noticed, '2014 pro-Russian unrest in
1495:
You don't have to and I feel we are making a big deal out of nothing. I removed Odessa in the beginning so a consensus could be reached, and it was eventually agreed to have it under a different section. But now the only thing stopping it from being listed with the other events is the word
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matter because it fills the criterion for its inclusion. The pro-Kiev and football ultras demonstration appears to be just a coinciding event taking place at the same time. Campaignboxes are not just limited to 'military operations' and can even include miscellaneous events such as hostage
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Just wanted to say the following. I agree with Fitzcarmalan and I agree with Xavier, but since you were obviously not going to stop fighting over this RGloucester I dropped the issue for the sake of compromise. But like Fitz says, your reasoning on the issue really is weak. Case closed.
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upon me. I will focus my attentions here. Consensus on Knowledge talk pages does not dictate the English language. One cannot change the meaning of the word campaign, which I have so graciously provided. Misleading the public at large with the word "campaign" cannot be tolerated.
1310:??? You shot down that idea when I proposed it two days ago. I was never proposing that it be simply lumped in beside Crimea and Donetsk since those two ARE military fronts, while Odessa is the civilian unrest front......Hmmm, seems we had a major breakdown in communications. 0.0
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I would just like to also note, that when this particular campaign box is displayed on a page the word campaign does not even appear at all. Note below. I would like RGloucester to show me where the world campaign is displayed in the navbox at all. PS, you cant because it isnt
4322:, where it belongs. I tried to embed it in the infobox, but it wouldn't render properly. There doesn't seem to be anything in the campaignbox code about positioning, so I don't know why it doesn't line up under the infobox as expected. Any help appreciated. All the best,
775:
A campaignbox, by definition, only includes events within a military campaign, or events that pertain to a military campaign. Odessa is neither. If this were a normal sidebar, it could be included. However, it is not. It is a campaignbox. To include Odessa is misleading.
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respective conflicts campaignboxes because they were related and notable presents a consistency which Knowledge requires from us. If it will make you feel better, we can compromise by separating Odessa in the campaignbox and marking the other events in the box as
1271:
If I remember correctly I proposed the same thing a full two days ago. And I have been proposing it all along. We put it in and separate it under a separate header that is titled with whatever you like (I'm fine with the title you just said). P.S. The essey says
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In Odessa the situation was assessed as stable. The city witnessed several small-scale events commemorating Victory Day. The SMM observed a group of 250 activists opposed to the Government commemorating the victims of the 2 May events; the gathering ended
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When used correctly, these comparisons are important as the encyclopedia should be consistent in the content that it provides or excludes. Trouble arises when legitimate comparisons are disregarded without thought or consideration of the Knowledge:Five
1189:
you presented an opinion that if there is no military involved its not a battle, even though we are having a civil war-like situation where civilian armed groups combat eachother. In essence you closed the loop and came back to your original argument.
4174:, which is where stuff like this belongs. The red and yellow map wasn't updated because there were no changes until the Donetsk airport battle. We don't really have any good maps to show what's going on now, so we need to wait until we get RS.
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2. When I pointed out that WP: Otherstuffexists is not exclusively for disregarding other established templates and in fact calls for consistency with other established articles, the question of whether the rioters were armed or not was called
4010:
Well, then it might come at the top, instead of at the bottom. Because, coming in the same line as the Crimean crisis suggests that there was only a Russian military intervention in Crimea, that's what I've been trying to say, and the editors
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For example, see the OSCE's daily report for yesterday. Look at the Odessa section. I've been following these since they started, and been working on the articles as such. Odessa has been calm. Odessa is calm. See this quote from yesterday's
828:????? In what way are the 2012 Afghanistan Quran burning protests a military campaign? Or, I have another example for you, in what way are the Black July riots, that are included in the Sri Lankan civil war campaignbox, a military campaign?
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shall be placed in a separate line, either at the top, the bottom or in the middle (not in the same line of the Crimean crisis, since it has also occurred in Donbass, that's my point!). It's a simple question. Do you agree or disagree with
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2681:, can you please explain how the Donetsk PR is considered an 'event' to be listed here? We don't need to mark the geographical locations of events in a campaignbox, especially when they are disputed like this one. Why add it instead of
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by you. Let other editors have their say as to what is appropriate and inappropriate. If you have personal opinions as to what belongs in the box, please let the rest of us know what and why (per policies and guidelines). Thank you.
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Every incident of shelling or rocketing is not notable. There has been constant shelling in Donetsk for months, and it isn't like we have an aritcle on every shelling that has ever taken place there. These articles that fail the
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In my opinion the topic on Russian intervention should heads any other topics about Russian invasion for any regions of Ukraine. Russian intervention has not started with the open invasion of the Donets basin, but soon after the
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This has nothing to do with POV. The conflict in Odessa was not a military conflict. It was a conflict between civilians. There was no military campaign. It was a civil conflict. If people want a link to Odessa, they can go to
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Just sayin, but this is somewhat a military conflict. There have been armed clashes, gun battles, police station seizures, and other armed incidents. It might not be fully a military conflict but there have been incidents.
759:
So what's happening? At this point its not understandable to not include the Odessa events in the box considering how notable the events were. Like Fitzcarmalan says, campaignboxes don't include just military engagements.
1055:
military conflict only when two military armed forces clash, well if this were a regular war between two countries that would be ok, but this is not that kind of war, its a civil conflict/war with Ukrainian vs Ukrainian.
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The continuance and operations of an army ‘in the field’ for a season or other definite portion of time, or while engaged in one continuous series of military operations constituting the whole, or a distinct part, of a
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intention was to suggest that it shouldn't come down to the two of you starting an edit war as to the content when it involves many other editors actively working on the articles on which the campaignbox is featured.
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The intervention is relevant to both areas while not fully encompassing either of them. It should have its own line, bottom or top of that cell. I have nothing against chronological sequencing of the other
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You just proved my point. What is the current unrest in the rest of Ukraine if not a civil conflict aka civil war? The head of the Ukrainian anti-terrorist center just yesterday called it a civil war.
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It is mentioned in the code, which is horrid enough. It lumps it together with conflicts it has nothing in common with, and has horrid implications. As I said, make a normal sidebar out of this, with
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Look, a good solution is that the crimea crisis stays on top and the donbass battles in the middle. However, the battle of novoazovsk and the invasion should go with the military intervention. --
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Your logic would be ok if this campaign box was related to the military operations in Donetsk ONLY. But you seem to have completely forgotten THAT is not the case. This campaignbox is not called
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to the conflicts/wars themselves than I have to remind you that the Odessa event is part of the 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine, and a highly notable one at that, that makes the events
2832:. I'm trying to troubleshoot it now, as it appears that the main infobox on that article possibly has some incorrect parameters or corrupted syntax. Dancin' as fast as I can... Cheers! --
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Ukraine' is not a military campaign. I have no personal POV. Either something is a military campaign, or it isn't. Knowledge isn't based on precedent, or consistency. Read the essay.
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It doesn't matter if it was a "massacre" or not. What matters is how the conflict arose. It arose through civil protest, and escalated into rioting. It was not a military operation.
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There is an insurgency in Donetsk. There is no insurgency elsewhere, at yet. Lumping it all together as a 'military campaign' is misleading to the reader, and promotes various POVs.
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Ukraine: Sevastopol installs pro-Russian mayor as separatism fears grow. Moscow shows its influence in Crimean city amid fears the whole peninsula could seek deeper ties with Russia
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said, "Campaignbox" is simply part of title formats that are used merely for coding purposes to be easily searched for. If it bothers you so much, you can go make a move request in
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There is nothing militaristic about the Quran burning protests among different similar cases all over Knowledge. And please note that it is listed under a section called "Other" in
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A campaign box isn't appropriate for this conflict, which isn't really a military one in the conventional sense. Please convert it to a sidebar, or I will nominate it for deletion.
1730:? I already said that i'm not opposed to the current compromise but was just pointing out that it was not necessary to separate things, especially when they are related like that.
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1. You said events of a military nature ONLY are for campaignboxes. When I pointed out that other campaignboxes included civilian unrest as well you called on WP: Otherstuffexists.
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into it by the pro-government protesters. Please don't makeup nonsense on the spot. Odessa remained calm until 2 May, and has been calm since. No insurgents, no army, no nothing.
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897:. The fact that events like the Quran burning protests exist in campaignboxes doesn't necessarily mean it is accurate. I myself believe it should be removed from there as well.
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1726:, but here you're making a big deal out of something minor. As for your perception that i'm "blowing this out-of-proportion", can you please elaborate how is this considered a
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presentation of the content. I'm happy for it to be tweaked for the sake of aesthetics, but I do think it needs to be made clear that it isn't a sequential article. Cheers! --
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3989:, nice. But as I said before, if the template is in time order then it is wrong. If it the article on intervention at the bottom for general purpose, then it is fine.
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1029:, which will direct them there. We already have a template for that very purpose, and it predates this one. This one is a MILITARY CAMPAIGNBOX for MILITARY CAMPAIGNS.
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structure with the overview article featured individually at the bottom of the box. Others may disagree, so let's see what the other opinions are on the structure. --
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when I started editing the Ukrainian-related articles only this morning? I have devoted all of my time on Knowledge for the last three years to the Syrian civil war.
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3. When I presented sources confirming BOTH sides used weapons you disregarded this also and claimed this box is only for events related to the Donetsk operations.
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Like I said, it can only go in if it is clearly delineated as not being part of any military campaign. For example, with a header like "Other related incidents".
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hopefully both sides agree with, I also announce that i'm dropping the case like EkoGraf and I really don't want to waste my energy on this anymore. Regards.
1722:, it was agreed that once a significant part of a conflict is armed, the whole thing becomes an armed conflict. A real case that you should 'not tolerate' is
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Can somebody please change the title to "2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine"? Because right now this page's title contradicts the title of the main article.
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is mostly related to article creation or deletion. As for content inclusion or exclusion (as is the case here), I would point you to the following stated in
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My bad. :P Although I never said Odessa was connected to Donetsk, instead saying the two are connected to the overall unrest. But nevermind, case resolved.
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I echo Mondolkiri1's concerns about keeping Crimea as a visually separate issue in the overall treatment of the recent events, which is why having
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and I might support. But we can't say that the clashes don't merit a place in the box since both sides included armed groups and since the events
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3326:'s moderate views and his efforts to bring peace to Ukraine and to reconcile the different groups in the country. I don't sympathize with the
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Now it's at the bottom, below both the Crimean crisis and the War in Donbass. Watch at the right of this reply the template as it current is.
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The implications of such a misuse of language is incredibly dangerous. We are an encyclopaedia, and we can't afford to convey disinformation.
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where the Soviet forces were instigating unrest and then taking cities by force. It is in a way similar to what Russia was conducting in
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is not a guideline that strictly absolves your resistance to the introduction of this highly notable event based on your personal POV.
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While not a strict OSE reasoning, the overarching concept remains, that of precedent and consistency throughout the Knowledge project.
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Hey guys, is there a glitch in this template? I can't press the when the "conflict in Ukraine" blocks the former. Can ya fix this?
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to the unrest. Not to mention the NAME of this box is 2014 pro-Russian unrest in Ukraine. So where is the logic to exclude from the
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What military campaign??? They were riots instigated and conducted by civilians, just like Odessa. If you are referring when saying
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With both sides using pistols during the fighting I would say yes this constitutes as an armed riot. Source for armed pro-Russians
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3592:'s opinion again and I've asked him to just focus on the subject of this discussion, in any following edit here about this issue.
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You can call it "weak" all you like. But you can't change the definition of the word "campaign" to suit your personal viewpoint.
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Chronological sequencing should come above all other personal preferences. By the way, I still see no comment on Novofedorivka.
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please bring your dispute to this talk page rather than using your personal talk pages. The content of this campaignbox is not
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far as we know, there are no PARAMILITARY INSURGENT GROUPS operating in ODESSA. Nor is the UKRAINIAN ARMY operating in ODESSA.
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STABLE! PEACEFUL! This has nothing in common with what one will find in either the Luhansk or Donetsk sections. I wonder why?
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977:(check 07:05 min). If this still isn't enough, would you than compromise for Odessa being separated in the box with the term
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A campaignbox, by definition, only includes events within a military campaign, or events that pertain to a military campaign.
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By what I understood, your opinion is that it should come at the top of all the other events? Or am I misunderstanding you?
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is a double-edged sword if there is consistency with other established templates (Sri Lanka, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria).
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Like I said, you can make this a sidebar, and I won't care. I will not tolerate the misuse of the word "campaign".
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Also, the fact that a number of sources call it a massacre must be taken into account. Let me add a few more:
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I wasn't calling it a massacre, I was making a comparison to other articles. And since when did I become a
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Would it be a good idea to use cursives for ongoing battles, to distinguish them from the finished ones.--
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Nickst messed with the redirect, so it is in the way. You will have to put this up for speedy move.
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and the several neo-fascist organizations in Russia. But that's not what we're discussing, anyway.
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Those events pertained to a military campaign. These do not. You are blowing it out of proportion.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Talk:2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine#RfC:_Should_the_invasion_have_its_own_sidebar/campaignbox?
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if we want to let the readers know more about the various clashes that are not mentioned here.
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implies that invasion started exactly during that timeframe. On February 21, 2014 a Russian
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also contains riots and other notable events that occured in the north during the civil war.
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request other editors on this subject to express their opinions on this particular issue:
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Oh, that was a very good and simple solution, Iryna! Thank you very much for that change!
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3191:, yes, you are right. Russian intervention has not started with the open invasion of the
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I still fail to see how the word campaign is mentioned anywhere in the template. Like
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You need to pay more attention. You are responding to other people's commentary about
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situations. And like Xavier said earlier, the word is just used for coding purposes.
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is a number of non-Russian partisan sources calling the events a 'massacre', such as
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by the Russian media and collaborating with fascists after he sang to residents of
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the annexation of Crimea, so my preference would be that the campaignbox follow an
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Russian Flag Flies Over Ukraine's Naval Headquarters In Crimean Port Of Sevastopol
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There was no need to do anything except change a few of the parameters. Cheers! --
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3211:- Russian city. Similar nationalistic revisionist policies were being pursued by
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3231:) back in 1930s. Be aware that there were an extensive "pro-Russian" edition on
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It isn't a glitch in this template. The only article it isn't working on is the
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Okay, I see what is going on. Isn't there an infobox that is a civil conflict?--
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not insurgents, who "stormed" (not occupied) a police station there. And there
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Putin arrives in Crimea for Victory Day events as deadly Ukraine clashes erupt
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That's actually the compromise wording I had already put in the previous day.
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Could you please add the newly created article to the campaign Box? Thanks --
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Also off topic, please, note who is being labelled as Nazi in Russia today:
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Ongoing RfC regarding separate sidebar or campaignbox for the 2022 invasion
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A chronological list of battles and operations in the campaign, linked as..
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Template:Campaignbox_Actions_in_New_England_during_the_American_Civil_War
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It isn't defined by reliable sources as a civil war, yet. That would be
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in February as the undercover forces known little green men. The whole
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They pertained to a military campaign, meaning that they were RELATED.
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Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the
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Glad you both know that the remarks are off-topic. Collapsing per
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upon liberating it from the pro-Russian militants, the so called
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Template-Class Russian, Soviet and CIS military history articles
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Cheers for pinging other contributors to the articles involved,
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And if things look quiet there for the moment, it is because of
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where near each other, and have nothing to do with each other.
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Take up my "weakness" with the English language, not with me.
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Just for good measure, in my weakness, I will provide you the
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It appears that in Odessa's case, they are called "militants"
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Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force articles
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Russian poster from 1921 — "Donbass is the heart of Russia".
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And I've said that I'd repeatedly support using a heading.
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Donetsk People's Republic#Expansion_of_territorial_control
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article. I can't guarantee it won't be deleted, as it is
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the Russian, Soviet, and CIS military history task force
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A more appropriate thread to discuss that can be found
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Russian, Soviet and CIS military history task force
4170:criteria must be stopped. Make an addition to the
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3170:File:Nazi World War II poster Danzig is German.jpg
736:controversial and hysterical Kremlinist POV pusher
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4376:Template-Class European military history articles
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1555:to halt a feared westward spread of rebellion.
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1419:Paris Match (a leading French magazine)
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2732:My proposal goes like this → Donetsk (
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1215:. That doesn't specify 'campaignbox'.
255:Knowledge:WikiProject Military history
245:. To use this banner, please see the
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4059:/police chevron was found at Maidan (
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4191:Offensive on Mariupol (January 2015)
3322:Also off topic, I personally admire
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1906:2007 Munich speech of Vladimir Putin
1720:Talk:List of ongoing armed conflicts
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4306:Murder of Pentecostals in Sloviansk
927:Also, I would refer you to section
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115:It is of interest to the following
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2601:Nord Stream pipeline sabotage
558:Knowledge:WikiProject Ukraine
552:and see a list of open tasks.
167:and see a list of open tasks.
37:Put new text under old text.
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805:22:29, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
787:04:58, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
770:04:42, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
748:19:53, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
730:17:43, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
700:15:17, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
677:11:25, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
662:10:31, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
647:09:13, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
629:03:38, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
614:03:21, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
598:03:14, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
424:, or contribute to the
274:Associated task forces:
170:International relations
161:International relations
136:International relations
3731:, and now in Ukraine.
3182:
3174:
2641:Ukrainian coup attempt
2631:Wagner Group rebellion
2194:Post-Minsk II conflict
1970:Belarusian involvement
1714:where events like the
1686:
1620:
474:
454:
327:
311:
295:
70:avoid personal attacks
4141:Marupol rocket attack
3195:, but soon after the
3180:
3173:
2768:That seems sensible.
2596:Russian mystery fires
2499:Effects and aftermath
2053:2014 Russian protests
1921:Revolution of Dignity
1681:
1607:
473:
453:
326:
310:
294:
4081:therefore have gone
4051:. Also, the Russian
3717:Ukrainian–Soviet War
2581:Ukrainian resistance
2492:2024 Kursk offensive
2344:Military engagements
2266:Attacks on civilians
213:Russian & Soviet
4065:Aleksandr Grigoryev
4006:Aleksandr Grigoryev
3991:Aleksandr Grigoryev
3965:Aleksandr Grigoryev
3877:Luhansk Border Base
3733:Aleksandr Grigoryev
3725:War in Transnistria
3698:Aleksandr Grigoryev
3651:Aleksandr Grigoryev
3636:Aleksandr Grigoryev
3497:Luhansk Border Base
3310:Aleksandr Grigoryev
3281:Aleksandr Grigoryev
3245:Aleksandr Grigoryev
3221:Free City of Danzig
3032:Aleksandr Grigoryev
2689:? And vice versa..
2591:Zagreb Tu-141 crash
2332:Prelude to invasion
2178:2nd Donetsk Airport
2128:Luhansk Border Base
2123:1st Donetsk Airport
2043:Southern Naval Base
1891:Budapest Memorandum
1856:Russo-Ukrainian War
1209:WP:Otherstuffexists
1094:while Odessa under
1092:military operations
541:WikiProject Ukraine
3616:2014 Crimea crisis
3205:2014 Crimea crisis
3183:
3175:
2514:Peace negotiations
2307:Stanytsia Luhanska
2220:Svitlodarsk (2016)
2143:Great Raid of 2014
2078:Capture of Donetsk
2033:Crimean Parliament
1330:. I said clarify.
929:Precedent in usage
475:
455:
426:project discussion
404:WikiProject Russia
328:
312:
296:
243:list of open tasks
111:content assessment
81:dispute resolution
42:
3959:
3958:
3945:Related incidents
3622:- Russian city. (
3570:
3569:
3556:Related incidents
3366:
3365:
3294:Andrey Makarevich
3269:Orange Revolution
2649:
2648:
1901:Orange Revolution
1728:storm in a teacup
1547:government forces
865:military campaign
580:
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61:Assume good faith
38:
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4300:Poor positioning
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4021:Arbutus the tree
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3919:Russian invasion
3897:Shakhtarsk Raion
3882:Il-76 shoot-down
3792:
3790:
3780:
3773:
3766:
3757:
3756:
3679:Arbutus the tree
3654:
3539:Russian invasion
3517:Shakhtarsk Raion
3502:Il-76 shoot-down
3405:
3403:
3393:
3386:
3379:
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3324:Petro Poroshenko
3201:little green men
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3018:Arbutus the tree
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2922:, could you and
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2556:Russian protests
2205:Shyrokyne (2015)
2148:Shakhtarsk Raion
2138:Sector D clashes
2018:Little green men
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3872:Donetsk Airport
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3729:War in Abkhazia
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3507:Donetsk, Russia
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2569:Arrest warrants
2507:Economic impact
2407:Sievierodonetsk
2355:Antonov Airport
2230:Avdiivka (2017)
2108:Il-76 shootdown
2103:Sievierodonetsk
2048:2014 Simferopol
1980:Media portrayal
1948:Information war
1865:
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1096:civilian unrest
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708:any second now.
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3340:Let's move on!
3336:Vladimir Putin
3291:
3215:in cases with
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1676:of "campaign":
1674:OED definition
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1425:among others.
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47:Learn to edit
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26:
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18:
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4200:RGloucester
4177:RGloucester
4079:
4017:Martin Berka
3961:
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3935:
3929:2nd Mariupol
3867:1st Mariupol
3847:
3826:
3727:), Georgia (
3588:I requested
3587:
3576:Fitzcarmalan
3572:
3555:
3554:
3549:2nd Mariupol
3482:1st Mariupol
3462:
3453:
3439:
3339:
3328:Right Sector
3298:fifth column
3279:supporters.
3237:Donets basin
3203:. The whole
3193:Donets basin
3152:Fitzcarmalan
3125:Martin Berka
3063:Fitzcarmalan
3011:Martin Berka
2997:Yulia Romero
2957:Fitzcarmalan
2952:
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2752:Fitzcarmalan
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2173:2nd Mariupol
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2016:
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1991:humanitarian
1963:cyberattacks
1953:cyberwarfare
1936:Major topics
1935:
1873:
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1791:Fitzcarmalan
1785:
1764:RGloucester
1748:
1732:Fitzcarmalan
1708:
1694:RGloucester
1682:
1660:RGloucester
1638:
1626:RGloucester
1608:
1591:RGloucester
1573:Fitzcarmalan
1543:
1537:or "rebels"
1518:RGloucester
1498:Fitzcarmalan
1483:RGloucester
1463:Fitzcarmalan
1457:
1444:RGloucester
1427:Fitzcarmalan
1415:Miami Herald
1333:RGloucester
1298:RGloucester
1275:
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1218:RGloucester
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1048:
1032:RGloucester
1007:
978:
959:Fitzcarmalan
932:
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923:
899:Fitzcarmalan
893:Please read
876:
872:
868:
864:
851:RGloucester
816:RGloucester
791:
779:RGloucester
758:
735:
722:RGloucester
705:User:EkoGraf
692:RGloucester
669:Fitzcarmalan
639:Fitzcarmalan
621:RGloucester
606:Fitzcarmalan
590:RGloucester
586:
539:
479:
459:
422:project page
417:
402:
236:
154:
117:WikiProjects
106:
19:This is the
4255:Babestress
4125:Iryna Harpy
4110:Mondolkiri1
4104:Iryna Harpy
4088:Iryna Harpy
4086:article. --
4045:Mondolkiri1
4030:Mondolkiri1
4013:Iryna Harpy
3987:Mondolkiri1
3971:Mondolkiri1
3713:Mondolkiri1
3694:Mondolkiri1
3657:Mondolkiri1
3594:Mondolkiri1
3343:Mondolkiri1
3233:Novorossiya
3229:Sudetenland
3189:Mondolkiri1
3148:WP:NOTFORUM
3123:incidents--
3094:Iryna Harpy
3059:Mondolkiri1
3045:Mondolkiri1
2976:RGloucester
2933:Iryna Harpy
2924:Mondolkiri1
2899:Iryna Harpy
2834:Iryna Harpy
2476:2nd Kherson
2456:1st Kherson
2397:2nd Kharkiv
2387:1st Kharkiv
1810:XavierGreen
1778:XavierGreen
1758:other stuff
1407:Prague Post
1386:XavierGreen
409:WikiProject
4350:Categories
4265:Andres arg
4245:Babestress
4195:WP:CRYSTAL
4049:Euromaidan
3924:Novoazovsk
3862:Kramatorsk
3834:Simferopol
3802:Revolution
3620:Sevastopol
3612:Euromaidan
3544:Novoazovsk
3487:Volnovakha
3477:Kramatorsk
3447:Simferopol
3415:Revolution
3261:Euromaidan
3209:Sevastopol
3197:Euromaidan
2738:Kramatorsk
2528:War crimes
2412:Lysychansk
2302:Kramatorsk
2287:Volnovakha
2183:Debaltseve
2168:Novoazovsk
2158:Yasynuvata
2088:Kramatorsk
1958:ransomware
1916:Euromaidan
1874:Background
1753:Euromaidan
1712:Euromaidan
1610:peacefully
1423:Daily Mail
1072:WP:CRYSTAL
4057:militsiya
3857:Sloviansk
3472:Sloviansk
3302:Slovyansk
3090:intuitive
3004:DagosNavy
2734:Sloviansk
2461:Melitopol
2365:Chernihiv
2336:Reactions
2272:Sloviansk
2093:Artemivsk
2083:Sloviansk
1569:Bloomberg
1328:this diff
869:pertained
83:if needed
66:Be polite
27:template.
21:talk page
4172:timeline
4168:WP:EVENT
4149:Skycycle
3909:Ilovaisk
3892:Horlivka
3807:Timeline
3529:Ilovaisk
3512:Horlivka
3420:Timeline
3275:and the
2928:WP:OWNed
2742:Mariupol
2564:ICJ case
2549:Protests
2466:Mykolaiv
2444:Pokrovsk
2439:Avdiivka
2382:Mariupol
2322:Timeline
2297:Mariupol
2163:Ilovaisk
2153:Horlivka
2118:Karlivka
2098:Mariupol
2069:Timeline
2025:Krymnash
2008:Timeline
1986:military
925:pillars.
363:Military
209:European
107:template
51:get help
3817:Donbass
3721:Moldova
3430:Donbass
3332:Svoboda
3225:Sudetes
3039:Tobby72
2990:Lvivske
2983:EkoGraf
2789:EkoGraf
2687:Donbass
2679:EkoGraf
2575:Related
2434:Marinka
2422:Bakhmut
2417:Soledar
2292:Donetsk
1861:outline
1642:EkoGraf
1604:report!
1347:EkoGraf
1312:EkoGraf
1281:EkoGraf
1237:EkoGraf
1194:EkoGraf
1144:EkoGraf
1100:EkoGraf
1057:EkoGraf
983:EkoGraf
941:EkoGraf
881:EkoGraf
873:RELATED
830:EkoGraf
797:EkoGraf
762:EkoGraf
740:EkoGraf
654:EkoGraf
555:Ukraine
546:Ukraine
505:Ukraine
4336:apolis
4287:Phiarc
3951:Odessa
3828:Crimea
3812:Crimea
3562:Odessa
3441:Crimea
3425:Crimea
3241:Russia
3223:) and
3217:Gdansk
3025:Tocino
2871:Dustin
2809:Glitch
2746:Others
2402:Donbas
1808:there!
1553:there
937:WP:OSE
920:WP:OSE
916:WP:OSE
912:WP:OSE
895:WP:OSE
431:Russia
413:Russia
358:Russia
113:scale.
4028:that?
3213:Nazis
2848:Title
2392:Izium
1559:this.
979:Other
105:This
79:Seek
4327:Mini
4310:GOCE
4291:talk
4282:See
4269:talk
4249:talk
4153:talk
4129:talk
4114:talk
4092:talk
4083:bold
4069:talk
4034:talk
4019:and
3995:talk
3975:talk
3737:talk
3702:talk
3683:talk
3661:talk
3640:talk
3598:talk
3580:talk
3347:talk
3314:talk
3285:talk
3249:talk
3235:and
3156:talk
3098:talk
3049:talk
2961:talk
2937:talk
2903:talk
2894:Done
2878:talk
2858:talk
2838:talk
2819:talk
2793:talk
2756:talk
2695:talk
2370:Sumy
2360:Kyiv
2260:2022
2255:2021
2250:2020
2245:2019
2235:2018
2225:2017
2215:2016
2200:2015
1814:talk
1795:talk
1736:talk
1684:war.
1646:talk
1616:OSCE
1577:talk
1549:and
1502:talk
1467:talk
1458:does
1431:talk
1421:and
1390:talk
1369:talk
1351:talk
1326:See
1316:talk
1285:talk
1267:???
1241:talk
1198:talk
1148:talk
1104:talk
1061:talk
1015:talk
987:talk
963:talk
945:talk
903:talk
885:talk
871:and
834:talk
801:talk
766:talk
744:talk
673:talk
658:talk
643:talk
635:here
610:talk
407:, a
68:and
4304:In
4063:).
2685:or
1786:are
1749:you
1544:are
1184:up.
4352::
4320:}}
4314:{{
4293:)
4271:)
4251:)
4222:—
4216:.
4203:—
4197:.
4180:—
4155:)
4131:)
4116:)
4094:)
4071:)
4036:)
4015:,
3997:)
3977:)
3739:)
3704:)
3685:)
3663:)
3642:)
3634:)
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3626:,
3600:)
3582:)
3349:)
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3316:)
3308:.
3287:)
3271:,
3267:,
3263:,
3251:)
3243:.
3158:)
3150:.
3100:)
3051:)
2963:)
2951:→
2939:)
2931:--
2905:)
2860:)
2840:)
2821:)
2795:)
2774:—
2758:)
2744:-
2740:-
2736:-
2713:—
2697:)
2663:—
1816:)
1797:)
1767:—
1738:)
1697:—
1663:—
1648:)
1629:—
1613:—
1594:—
1579:)
1571:.
1521:—
1504:)
1486:—
1469:)
1447:—
1433:)
1417:,
1413:,
1409:,
1405:,
1392:)
1371:)
1353:)
1336:—
1318:)
1301:—
1287:)
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