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1096:, with 36 footnotes (over 43 times before I started fixes in the last version). Since at the same time I have personally opposed ad hominem arguments, I want to avoid them, but I do have to point out that there's a conflict of interest in the source since the subject has worked with the Guyanese government, and this definitely affects reliability. I have added the respective inline tags in these cases, seeking to avoid them in non-controversial statements. --
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1159:, such as the claim that Leoni did not want to transfer power to Caldera, which is just baffling. Leoni famously opposed expanding the presidential term length and responded in an interview, responding if anyone proposed to him to commit fraud, that "No one advised me to do so, nor would I have allowed it. In Venezuela so much progress has been made in the democratic field that not even our most irreconcilable enemies suggested it to me." --
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1007:, as far as I know. The other removals have included appropriately sourced content, which is not reliant on a single reference (which I just found out that also includes the Venezuelan minister rejection of the involvement accusations, although I can imagine this was unintentional), and you have insisted on them, which is disruptive.
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The rationale for accepting them as
Venezuelan citizens by birth is due to their birthplace being in what Venezuela describes as "the Reclamation Zone". This is a specific title that Venezuela uses for the territory, not "disputed territory" or anything else because they truly recognized it as being
1704:
In 1969, it was discovered that
Caracas had backed a secessionist revolt by ranchers and Amerindians in the Rupununi region, ... To put this into perspective, when Guyana gained independence in May 1966, it had a standing army of 750 troops and no air or maritime forces. Venezuela, in contrast, had
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Regarding the section, I mentioned the reasons above. The sources do not mention the
Rupununi uprising unless they're about a general history about Guyana-Venezuela relations. The current phrasing suggests that the uprising was just a continuation to Venezuelan pressure, which is heavily disputed.
1035:
asset at the time to oppose the government, so we definitely need to take their opinion with a grain of salt. Ishmael and Singh also did not mention any death numbers, the majority of the "atrocity" accusations and death numbers come from the now-defunct Pan-Tribal
Confederacy of Indigenous Tribal
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in the past. Just because the claim is not available only now doesn't mean it wasn't available when it was first added, and that's something that can be verified with another version of the book. You're removing a specific point of view from the article, leaving only one and contrary to a neutral
1259:
The previous Guyana–Venezuela relations section consisted in a lots of SYNTH that mentioned the
Esequibo territorial dispute and tensions between the Guyanese and Venezuelan governments. Venezuelan involvement in the uprising is disputed, and at any rate the sources included do not mention the
1173:
I’m okay with excluding Leoni. However regarding the number of deaths and injuries, those explicitly came from the fringe source. You also removed the previous tensions between Guyana and
Venezuela that academic sources say contributed to the crisis. I'll take a look when I have a chance.
1431:. I asked you days ago, which specific issues can we discuss? This is about collaborating through discussion, not forcing each other to make changes. We can change some of the wording if necessary, but these scholarly sources have independently said that Venezuela supported the uprising.
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A Venezuelan incursion on the island of Ankoko (October 1966) and
Venezuelan instigation of the Rupununi uprising (January 1969) were succeeded by an agreement signed on June 18, 1970, which provided that neither country would make any territorial claims for a period of at least twelve
731:
that there are "No independent sources" when the New York Times says that
Venezuela was accused of being involved while Harold Eugene Davis and Pedro González say that Venezuela was involved. Can you explain why you keep removing this material and other details about the rebels?
1118:
I can agree to limiting some of this, though you have been introducing fringe material and citing a
Venezuelan military officer for the article, a conflict of interest itself. You are also removing scholarly sources that explicitly say that Venezuela was involved. Please stop.
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As I mentioned, the reasons provided are not ones to consider the source as fringe, and several other sources mention this as well. However, given that
Venezuela is currently not included in the infobox, it might be consistent with the format to avoid it and a good
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Most of the sources refer to the declarations of Guyanese authorities, and facts such as the Ankoko Island occupation are unrelated to this uprising. You're also virtually not making changes to address this since the last time you have tried to introduce this
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As someone who knows very little about the history of Guyana, I noticed that there is some important information missing from this article-namely anything pertaining to the rebels. Who were they, where did they come from, and what did they hope to achieve?
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When I mention that there aren't "independent sources", I mean that the only one to claim this has been the Guyanese government. All other sources cite them about this claim, and should not be added with an editorial voice as such. It should be noted that
785:(italics added). There should definitely be better sourcing for this before, say, adding Venezuela as a supporter in the infobox. I will review González' source when I have the time, but if you could argue this further it would be helpful. --
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Once again, this appears to focus mostly on personal characteristics, but not on substance. This is even more important given that these allegations have been covered by multiple sources, including the aforementioned Manuel Felipe Sierra.
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Thank you for your openness to changes. I have to point out that since this has been cited by at least Jai Narine Singh, the Pan-Tribal Confederacy of Indigenous Tribal Nations and Manuel Felipe Sierra, so it's clearly not fringe
1362:
Which specific issues can we discuss? The claims about Venezuelan involvement are covered in the declarations of Guyanese officials, as well as the context of the territorial dispute when rebel leaders visited Caracas.
1377:
There are multiple independent sources that report Venezuela's support in their own voice without attributing the information to the Guyanese government. The sources also provide a background on the situation as well.
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Valerie Hart's family is irrelevant to the rebellion. It doesn't matter if they were wealthy or American, only if some of them participated in the uprising. Said information is already included in Hart's main article.
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1279:, you must have missed something in multiple sources or did not read through them. Each source discusses the rebellion within the historical context of the Guyana and Venezuela territorial dispute. Your claims of
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I have also not removed the allegations of Venezuelan involvement. The details, from the planes and the transport to the training, are all in there. There are only a few claims that require better sourcing per
1336:
Can we discuss specific issues first? We can collaborate on what to include or exclude from my edits and why. Such discussion can remain on this talk page to assist future users who may have similar concerns.
1535:
WeatherWriter, since only been NoonIcarus and I editing this article, I wanted to ask for your thoughts since you were previously involved in a similar discussion. Do you have any recommendations on this?--
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This seems to be a conflict of interest regarding positions on a topic disputed by Venezuela and a self-described "confederacy" is hardly a reliable source for controversial information such as killings.--
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After the uprising, Venezuela President Rafael Caldera and Burnham were alarmed at the uprising and vowed to focus their attentions on the issue of the territorial dispute between their two countries
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In the warnings I have left you I have not included the removals based on due weight, which includes way more removals. We both have cited content removals based on this, and we both agree on
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Venezuela made a failed attempt to instigate a secession of Indigenous citizens in the Rupununi district, which the Guyana Defense Force (GDF) successfully quelled on January 2, 1969.
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1092:: In the past you have expressed that overrelliance on a single source should be avoided in articles. Yet, you have added content heavily reliant on Guyanese diplomat
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Additionally, the number of casualties has been in the article for over a decade. It should not be removed so simply, and better sources should be looked for instead.
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to the rebellion and provide background on Venezuela's actions to acquire the Essequibo (economic war and propaganda), all of which is presented by the sources in
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1040:) registered in Barbados. The Pan-Tribal Confederacy of Indigenous Tribal Nations was a self-declared nation led by Damon Gerard Corrie that attempted to occupy
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request. Please discuss the issue on the talk page. If there's disruptive editing without discussion, I would take it to the appropriate noticeboard. Best,
1705:
an army of 15,000, an impressive air fleet of British- and American-made jets and bombers, and a navy equipped with destroyers, frigates, and a submarine.
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Perhaps the earliest incident of major consequence since independence (1966) was the Rupununi uprising in 1969 in which Venezuelan complicity was evident.
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Among other disputed changes, you're re-adding Venezuela to the Belligerents section in the infobox, whose opposition I have also commented here. --
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about adding "Support" in infoboxes. In a previous version of this article, Venezuela was present with an "(alleged)" tag present. It looks like
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Among the effects of the conflict were the use of force by Venezuela, her sponsoring of a secessionist movement in the Rupununi region of Guyana
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Hi. As an attempt to follow you last suggestions, I wanted to ping you before making any changes or reverting. I noticed that you restored the
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Venezuelan land. Describing it as something else would take away from Venezuela's rationale for recognizing them as Venezuelan's by birth.----
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Again, you are making "stable" claims. The previous claim of casualties was not verified. A different source has been provided and verified.
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Hereditary Chief", Corrie has collaborated with the Venezuelan government, including holding presentations at their embassy in Barbados.
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No it isn't? At any rate, Manuel Felipe Sierra is a journalist and political scientist that can be easily cited in the article. --
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The sources directly relate Venezuela's involvement and pressure to the rebellion. Not sure what you are missing in the sources.
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recognizes that there is a territorial dispute between Venezuela and Guyana. If you wish, I think that the alternate wording of
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was a particularly authoritarian leader, so that should be another reason to beware of the government's claims. --
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in 1969, the army and police in Guyana stopped a Venezuelan-backed secessionist rising in the Rupununi region
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Mars, Perry (Summer 1984). "Destabilization and Socialist Orientation in the English-Speaking Caribbean".
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In 1969, Venezuelan-trained and -equipped Guyanese secessionists declared an 'Essequibo Free State.'
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I'll go through the sources that you provided, but if you are accusing me of blanking information,
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Miline, R. Stephen (September 1974). "Impulses and Obstacles to Caribbean Political Integration".
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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If you agree that blanking is wrong, please avoid doing it, or at least insisting on it. --
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Taylor, Moe (2019). "Every Citizen a Soldier: The Guyana People's Militia, 1976–1985".
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Cush, Ifa Kamau (13 August 2015). "Venezuela: A 'fishbone' in the throat of Guyana".
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her sponsoring of a secessionist movement in the Rupununi region of Guyana
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facts such as the Ankoko Island occupation are unrelated to this uprising
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Most of the sources refer to the declarations of Guyanese authorities
1031:. First, opposition politician Jai Narine Singh was literally a paid
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a former user supported the inclusion of Venezuela in the infobox
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Introduction to global military history: 1775 to the present day
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Guyana faced a secessionist movement in the Rupununi area that
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1277:"the sources included do not mention the Rupununi uprising"
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1396:, despite of what I have commented here. Please stop. --
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This has since been addressed in my most recent edit.--
1415:. This is simply false and this can be support by the
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Nations, an indigenous activist organization that is (
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U.S. Intervention in British Guiana: A Cold War Story
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Start-Class South American military history articles
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Davis, Harold Eugene; Wilson, Larman Curtis (1975).
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Because it is a website published in a blog format.
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This article has been checked against the following
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was aided and abetted by the Venezuelan authorities
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314:Knowledge:WikiProject Military history
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1636:La ReclamaciĂłn de la Guayana Esequiba
1565:Griffith, Ivelaw Lloyd (2021-04-28).
986:then you are obviously doing the same
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584:This article is supported by
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1550:Infobox "Support" references
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1517:as well. In both instances,
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212:Phabricator
148:free images
31:not a forum
1816:Categories
1768:NoonIcarus
1721:(3): 308.
1638:. Caracas.
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648:WP:ALLEGED
1760:Venezuela
1663:Routledge
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1593:(3): 95.
1281:synthesis
671:Essequibo
669:or just "
659:Essequibo
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1776:WMrapids
1736:. p. 2.
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1613:. pp.
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