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2240:(that's why I removed the 3 sources all citing the same thing when one is reliable enough IMO). This section is about the speculations and perspectives- that's also why I moved the facts up to Background section. It's not like the text says "Chinese UWSA relations is why Operation 1027 is possible" directly. The language reflects the speculation.
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like it ends south of
Kanbalu. I would recommend making the stripes smaller, and making both the green and the red lighter within disputed territory, so they have a clearer outline from the then darker red and green used for fully claimed territory. If this issue is also on the source map, it may be a good idea to do the same with that, too.
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the military has been stretched thin is an objective fact and reported. The fact that the pro-military channels have been calling for bombing of KIA HQ is a fact and reported. The fact that the military bombed near Laiza is a fact and reported. The fact that Gun Maw said a military response is necessary is a fact and reported.
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The sources cited for
Chinese-centric version of the events are not reliable. The VOA news cited was based on what is being said on Weibo. The other two sources are also speculative. Tell me which part of my citation/edit is speculative? It is only merely providing the neutral context. The fact that
2005:
I have removed the part claiming China explicitly supported the rebels with arms. The citations given in the sentence are unreliable, merely speculative and push the China-centric narrative without providing any concrete evidence. The most reliable speculation of China's tacit approval could be seen
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I believe it's crucial to include the provided narrative about
Operation 1027 in the article. Currently, there's a predominant China-centric perspective surrounding this operation, which may overshadow other significant aspects of the event. It's important to contextualize Operation 1027 within the
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Yeah, when I saw it originally I was confused because I thought the support field had been deprecated. Turns out that it had been and the
Supported by section was just shoved in there manually. Go figure. But yes, elaborating on the nature of the support in the article is much less misleading than
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Huh, you're right. Upon reviewing sources cited and going through some quick google searches- I don't think the AA or any sources really indicated that the
Rakhine offensive was ever part of Operation 1027. Must've been something I hallucinated lol. In light of this, I think we should put the end
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Yeah, it's a good thing the
Supported by portions are being deprecated because this isn't just limited to Knowledge- RS (esp. those that arent focused on foreign policy analysis) keep mentioning China as a junta key ally without explanation and many are wary of suggesting the opposite explicitly.
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I think the stripes for the "disputed territory" regions on the map might make ascertaining the true extent of the regions somewhat confusing. For example, it could go unnoticed that Shwebo falls under disputed territory because a massive stripe cuts off that from where the large green line looks
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offensive. The purpose of
Operation 1027 is that the Three Brothers Alliance intends to seize the junta's territory in northern Shan State, while the purpose of the Arakan Offensive is for the Arakan Army to seize the Rakhine State area. The two operations are also very far apart geographically.
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I think you are right. The Arakan Army's operation in
Rakhine State are not part of Operation 1027. They can only be said to be parallel in time. The Arakan Army sent fighters to participate in some fighting in northern Shan State during Operation 1027, but that had little to do with the Rakhine
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Using the dubious claim that "tacit acceptance" by China of the offensive constitutes its support, and support on a scale comparable to the NUG is quite a stretch to me. I'd personally say that China being listed as supporting the offensive be removed unless there is concrete evidence for direct
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weight calculation is way-off. You are citing the biased article from India which would only tacitly suggest that UWSA tacitly approved the operation 1027, which therefore China did tacitly approve the operation. I agree my tone needs to be correct. But your edits made it way too biased towards
2077:
People should have objective criteria for the inclusion of countries as supporters in wars' infoboxes and this is being completely thrown away as people use them to expose their personal grievances or support against a specific country. There is well documented material in the media about China
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If you notice, I removed the weibo VOA source in my re-edit and relied only on the other two. Just because it's a fact doesn't mean it should be in this section- and just because there are sources that talk about the military losing doesn't mean we need to add every source that talks about it.
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The fact that China is supporting the 3BHA is speculative and not properly sourced. The fact that it is the
Chinese support that makes the difference for 3BHA military victory is speculative and dismisses all other important contexts. My edits are more neutral than the current Chinese centric
2081:
But when the shoe is in the other foot: China was listed as a supporter of
Myanmar in the infobox merely for issuing neutral statements and keeping diplomatic relationships with Myanmar as usual. It seems to have been removed by now, but it stayed there for a long period without any "dubious"
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broader scope of the revolution in Myanmar. I have added the October 9 bombing incident and also other aspects that provide better context of the Operation 1027. If Chinese scam operation is deemed to be relevant, I don't see why these other aspects shoud not be equally highlighted.
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here. We don't have a perfect understanding of the situation, nor do we have entirely unbiased news sources to draw from, so we have to include opinions and speculation while also making it clear they are simply conjectures and also giving equal weight to opposing viewpoints.
2290:. And tbh the natural-evolution of the revolution perspective arguing against the chinese involvement perspective kind of begs the question to know what the chinese involvement perspective thinks. (i.e. We should present the argument to present the rebuttal to the argument).
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weight. The parts of your edit were things like "This operation symbolizes the evolution of a national movement into a cohesive military coalition, marking the peak of years of resistance and reflecting the unyielding resolve of the people of Myanmar." that don't fit the
2010:. Even in that interview, she could not provide any concrete evidence of China's tacit approval apart from China's desire to get rid of cyber scams and the military achievement of 3BHA. More importantly, tacit approval does not equate to as primary divers of the event.
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I am happy with the current state of the edits. Previously it was biased too heavily towards interpreting the events as Chinese pulling strings. There have been concerted push towards such narrative, hence the need to make sure the perspectives presented here are
2401:), is it time to mark the operation as ended? The Arakan Army never really referred to their operations in Rakhine as being under the scope of 1027, and most publications regard the operation as an event that took place in the past and that has now completed.
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in this specific section- Arnold is biased about NUG being very important, the KIA is obviously biased towards their own views, VOA is biased against China, etc. The point of the section is to detail/report on these different perspectives not to engage in
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on Knowledge aiming to provide a wider and more detailed coverage on countries and areas of the encyclopedia which are notably less developed than the rest. If you would like to help improve this and other Myanmar-related articles, please
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I have noted a dispute in the edit history regarding whether to use "rebel" or "resistance" for Three Brotherhood Alliance and other anti-junta forces. I am leaning on reverting to "resistance" but would like to discuss before doing so.
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used "rebel" more. Seems like some sources use both words, and I don't see a problem with using both words as a compromise for more varied prose. I don't see either term as more "subjective" than the other.
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providing support the rebels such as the link provided below me. The issue here is that people who have a negative opinion of China don't want to see it allied with a movement that is viewed positively.
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2082:"discuss" link under it. As the Myanmar junta is viewed very negatively and there is good evidence of them committing ethnic cleansing, it is a "good" thing to list China as associated with them.
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I think information in the November 2 section should be moved to other relevant ones. The section does not describes any event happened on Nov 2, instead it outlines news reports on that day. @
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section and turned it into a very POV version pushing one narrative. On wikipedia we report based on what other sources are saying, and aren't editorializing what we believe is true.
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Do you guys think the Sagaing-Magway offensives recently are part of 1027? Would be good to have articles that say they are part of 1027. If not those might just be part of
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did a good job of copyediting, especially with some of the things I was struggling to do myself (like that heading name). Better wording overall! Thanks everyone.
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There are uses of both terms in sourcing and in the page itself. They all probably be changed to one name for clarity and consistency to avoid confusing readers. @
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Agreed, I don't particularly have a strong opinion; but rebel is not any less POV than resistance. Not sure if consistency is an issue. My intuition is that the
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Given that the ceasefire has held for 3 or 4 months now, and that the only fighting that has taken place in Rakhine state now has its own designated article (
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Fair enough. It just seems weird to me to put the explicit and direct support of the NUG in the same category as the under-the-table, covert Chinese support.
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1985:: I have edited the pattern and also outlined areas of resistance presence. For future inquiries I recommend using the file's talk page.
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China supports United Wa State Army, which supplies materials to insurgent fighters and rebel alliance. According to this Indian media:
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acknowledges the Shan language by using the a haphazard combination of "Hseni". Essentially, Hsenwi is
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Furthermore, even the Myanmar regime at this point is explicitly saying China took the rebels' side
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date as the ceasefire and also remove all the Rakhine content- moving that to the
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I agree, seems like something to put in an section about the overall. Go be
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and make sure each article on the English Knowledge has one in Burmese also
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Pretty much all the articles are biased. That's kind of the point of
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related articles on Knowledge. The WikiProject is also a part of the
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A news item involving Operation 1027 was featured on Knowledge's
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while Theinni is Burmanized. I went and changed for consistency.
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on Burmese subjects and articles on smaller towns and villages
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use the word "resistance" more than "rebel" while a third
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It seems like your edits took the relatively balanced
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material or diplomatic aid to the operation. Thoughs?
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I'd appreciate your input on this as native citizens.
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Southeast Asian military history task force articles
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as other contributors for some additional opinions.
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https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20231122_41/
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This article has been checked against the following
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1930:Disputed territory shading on the map is confusing
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33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
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1005:November 2023
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52:Learn to edit
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2312:Agree with @
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2020:— Preceding
2004:
1981:
1957:EmeraldRange
1955:
1933:
1908:EmeraldRange
1906:
1895:EAO as rebel
1837:EmeraldRange
1829:
1807:EmeraldRange
1805:
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1767:EmeraldRange
1765:
1742:EmeraldRange
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1395:January 2024
915:October 2023
814:Section name
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19:This is the
1797:Minntheking
1763:and do it!
1560:August 2024
1410:3–7 January
1350:15 December
1290:27 November
1275:26 November
1260:25 November
1245:24 November
1230:23 November
1215:18 November
1170:13 November
1155:12 November
660:Structure:
373:To-do list:
207:section on
203:In the news
148:free images
31:not a forum
2477:Categories
1844:NasssaNser
1736:November 2
1639:References
1500:April 2024
1320:1 December
1125:9 November
1110:8 November
1095:7 November
1080:6 November
1065:4 November
1050:3 November
1035:2 November
1020:1 November
990:31 October
975:30 October
960:29 October
945:28 October
930:27 October
843:Background
2341:TheoValor
2332:balanced.
2269:TheoValor
2215:TheoValor
2213:version.
2169:TheoValor
2026:TheoValor
2012:TheoValor
1587:Reactions
1545:July 2024
1530:June 2024
221:Knowledge
197:Main Page
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2449:contribs
2371:contribs
2304:contribs
2264:WP:UNDUE
2254:contribs
2229:WP:UNDUE
2200:contribs
2119:contribs
2034:contribs
2022:unsigned
1967:contribs
1918:contribs
1817:contribs
1793:JAMB2023
1777:contribs
1746:JAMB2023
1726:contribs
1679:JAMB2023
1657:156,255
1613:See also
1600:Analysis
893:105,544
886:Timeline
621:criteria
452:articles
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2433:马来西亚古晋人
2283:WP:NPOV
2234:WP:TONE
2184:WP:NPOV
1833:Vif12vf
1761:WP:BOLD
1700:Prefer
1654:156,255
1553:11,680
1523:22,616
1313:11,687
1013:42,174
923:16,661
908:77,371
837:27,740
822:Section
387:history
360:on the
333:Myanmar
319:Myanmar
272:Myanmar
243:C-class
199:in the
154:WP refs
142:scholar
1869:Ironic
1803:page.
1702:Hsenwi
1607:5,429
1594:2,337
1581:5,423
1574:Impact
1568:4,723
1550:11,680
1538:6,182
1493:1,669
1478:1,810
1463:1,486
1448:5,541
1433:2,096
1418:4,698
1403:6,818
1388:1,597
1373:2,981
1358:2,374
1343:3,051
1328:1,628
1298:2,401
1283:2,240
1268:1,253
1253:1,277
1238:1,367
1223:1,712
1208:3,004
1178:3,653
1163:1,799
1148:2,442
1133:2,233
1118:1,943
1103:5,032
1088:4,010
1073:3,435
1043:2,090
998:2,209
983:1,478
968:1,290
953:2,483
938:9,178
880:6,068
865:3,037
850:9,122
834:27,740
824:total
491:after
482:Update
440:Expand
249:scale.
126:Google
2288:WP:OR
2262:Your
2065:Loned
1681:and @
1651:Total
1626:Notes
1604:5,429
1591:2,337
1578:5,423
1565:4,723
1535:6,182
1490:1,669
1475:1,810
1460:1,486
1430:2,096
1415:4,698
1385:1,597
1370:2,981
1355:2,374
1340:3,051
1325:1,628
1295:2,401
1280:2,240
1265:1,253
1250:1,277
1235:1,367
1220:1,712
1205:3,004
1175:3,653
1160:1,799
1145:2,442
1130:2,233
1115:1,943
1100:5,032
1085:4,010
1070:3,435
1040:2,090
995:2,209
980:1,478
965:1,290
950:2,483
935:9,178
877:6,068
862:3,037
830:(Top)
819:count
544:Asian
499:Other
469:Stubs
458:Photo
397:purge
392:watch
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2464:talk
2445:talk
2409:talk
2367:talk
2345:talk
2323:talk
2300:talk
2273:talk
2250:talk
2219:talk
2196:talk
2173:talk
2150:talk
2134:talk
2115:talk
2096:talk
2069:talk
2051:talk
2030:talk
2016:talk
1991:talk
1982:Done
1963:talk
1941:talk
1914:talk
1883:EAOs
1873:talk
1848:talk
1835:and
1813:talk
1773:talk
1750:talk
1722:talk
1691:talk
1646:499
1620:135
1508:552
1193:890
1058:493
1028:876
817:Byte
448:and
382:edit
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
2460:羽衣狐
2429:羽衣狐
2006:in
1887:NUG
1875:)
1706:GAD
1643:499
1633:26
1617:135
1505:552
1190:890
1055:493
1025:876
352:Mid
176:TWL
2479::
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1939:(
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501::
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443::
424::
364:.
255::
213:.
172:·
166:·
158:·
151:·
145:·
139:·
133:·
128:(
58:.
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