Knowledge

Talk:Operation 1027

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754: 287: 266: 722: 738: 408: 218: 297: 607: 190: 786: 235: 679: 668: 657: 646: 565: 533: 1978: 635: 2240:(that's why I removed the 3 sources all citing the same thing when one is reliable enough IMO). This section is about the speculations and perspectives- that's also why I moved the facts up to Background section. It's not like the text says "Chinese UWSA relations is why Operation 1027 is possible" directly. The language reflects the speculation. 1935:
like it ends south of Kanbalu. I would recommend making the stripes smaller, and making both the green and the red lighter within disputed territory, so they have a clearer outline from the then darker red and green used for fully claimed territory. If this issue is also on the source map, it may be a good idea to do the same with that, too.
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the military has been stretched thin is an objective fact and reported. The fact that the pro-military channels have been calling for bombing of KIA HQ is a fact and reported. The fact that the military bombed near Laiza is a fact and reported. The fact that Gun Maw said a military response is necessary is a fact and reported.
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The sources cited for Chinese-centric version of the events are not reliable. The VOA news cited was based on what is being said on Weibo. The other two sources are also speculative. Tell me which part of my citation/edit is speculative? It is only merely providing the neutral context. The fact that
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I have removed the part claiming China explicitly supported the rebels with arms. The citations given in the sentence are unreliable, merely speculative and push the China-centric narrative without providing any concrete evidence. The most reliable speculation of China's tacit approval could be seen
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I believe it's crucial to include the provided narrative about Operation 1027 in the article. Currently, there's a predominant China-centric perspective surrounding this operation, which may overshadow other significant aspects of the event. It's important to contextualize Operation 1027 within the
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Yeah, when I saw it originally I was confused because I thought the support field had been deprecated. Turns out that it had been and the Supported by section was just shoved in there manually. Go figure. But yes, elaborating on the nature of the support in the article is much less misleading than
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Huh, you're right. Upon reviewing sources cited and going through some quick google searches- I don't think the AA or any sources really indicated that the Rakhine offensive was ever part of Operation 1027. Must've been something I hallucinated lol. In light of this, I think we should put the end
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Yeah, it's a good thing the Supported by portions are being deprecated because this isn't just limited to Knowledge- RS (esp. those that arent focused on foreign policy analysis) keep mentioning China as a junta key ally without explanation and many are wary of suggesting the opposite explicitly.
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I think the stripes for the "disputed territory" regions on the map might make ascertaining the true extent of the regions somewhat confusing. For example, it could go unnoticed that Shwebo falls under disputed territory because a massive stripe cuts off that from where the large green line looks
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offensive. The purpose of Operation 1027 is that the Three Brothers Alliance intends to seize the junta's territory in northern Shan State, while the purpose of the Arakan Offensive is for the Arakan Army to seize the Rakhine State area. The two operations are also very far apart geographically.
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I think you are right. The Arakan Army's operation in Rakhine State are not part of Operation 1027. They can only be said to be parallel in time. The Arakan Army sent fighters to participate in some fighting in northern Shan State during Operation 1027, but that had little to do with the Rakhine
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Using the dubious claim that "tacit acceptance" by China of the offensive constitutes its support, and support on a scale comparable to the NUG is quite a stretch to me. I'd personally say that China being listed as supporting the offensive be removed unless there is concrete evidence for direct
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weight calculation is way-off. You are citing the biased article from India which would only tacitly suggest that UWSA tacitly approved the operation 1027, which therefore China did tacitly approve the operation. I agree my tone needs to be correct. But your edits made it way too biased towards
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People should have objective criteria for the inclusion of countries as supporters in wars' infoboxes and this is being completely thrown away as people use them to expose their personal grievances or support against a specific country. There is well documented material in the media about China
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If you notice, I removed the weibo VOA source in my re-edit and relied only on the other two. Just because it's a fact doesn't mean it should be in this section- and just because there are sources that talk about the military losing doesn't mean we need to add every source that talks about it.
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The fact that China is supporting the 3BHA is speculative and not properly sourced. The fact that it is the Chinese support that makes the difference for 3BHA military victory is speculative and dismisses all other important contexts. My edits are more neutral than the current Chinese centric
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But when the shoe is in the other foot: China was listed as a supporter of Myanmar in the infobox merely for issuing neutral statements and keeping diplomatic relationships with Myanmar as usual. It seems to have been removed by now, but it stayed there for a long period without any "dubious"
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broader scope of the revolution in Myanmar. I have added the October 9 bombing incident and also other aspects that provide better context of the Operation 1027. If Chinese scam operation is deemed to be relevant, I don't see why these other aspects shoud not be equally highlighted.
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here. We don't have a perfect understanding of the situation, nor do we have entirely unbiased news sources to draw from, so we have to include opinions and speculation while also making it clear they are simply conjectures and also giving equal weight to opposing viewpoints.
2290:. And tbh the natural-evolution of the revolution perspective arguing against the chinese involvement perspective kind of begs the question to know what the chinese involvement perspective thinks. (i.e. We should present the argument to present the rebuttal to the argument). 2231:
weight. The parts of your edit were things like "This operation symbolizes the evolution of a national movement into a cohesive military coalition, marking the peak of years of resistance and reflecting the unyielding resolve of the people of Myanmar." that don't fit the
2010:. Even in that interview, she could not provide any concrete evidence of China's tacit approval apart from China's desire to get rid of cyber scams and the military achievement of 3BHA. More importantly, tacit approval does not equate to as primary divers of the event. 2331:
I am happy with the current state of the edits. Previously it was biased too heavily towards interpreting the events as Chinese pulling strings. There have been concerted push towards such narrative, hence the need to make sure the perspectives presented here are
2401:), is it time to mark the operation as ended? The Arakan Army never really referred to their operations in Rakhine as being under the scope of 1027, and most publications regard the operation as an event that took place in the past and that has now completed. 2285:
in this specific section- Arnold is biased about NUG being very important, the KIA is obviously biased towards their own views, VOA is biased against China, etc. The point of the section is to detail/report on these different perspectives not to engage in
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on Knowledge aiming to provide a wider and more detailed coverage on countries and areas of the encyclopedia which are notably less developed than the rest. If you would like to help improve this and other Myanmar-related articles, please
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I have noted a dispute in the edit history regarding whether to use "rebel" or "resistance" for Three Brotherhood Alliance and other anti-junta forces. I am leaning on reverting to "resistance" but would like to discuss before doing so.
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used "rebel" more. Seems like some sources use both words, and I don't see a problem with using both words as a compromise for more varied prose. I don't see either term as more "subjective" than the other.
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providing support the rebels such as the link provided below me. The issue here is that people who have a negative opinion of China don't want to see it allied with a movement that is viewed positively.
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I think information in the November 2 section should be moved to other relevant ones. The section does not describes any event happened on Nov 2, instead it outlines news reports on that day. @
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section and turned it into a very POV version pushing one narrative. On wikipedia we report based on what other sources are saying, and aren't editorializing what we believe is true.
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Do you guys think the Sagaing-Magway offensives recently are part of 1027? Would be good to have articles that say they are part of 1027. If not those might just be part of
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did a good job of copyediting, especially with some of the things I was struggling to do myself (like that heading name). Better wording overall! Thanks everyone.
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There are uses of both terms in sourcing and in the page itself. They all probably be changed to one name for clarity and consistency to avoid confusing readers. @
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Agreed, I don't particularly have a strong opinion; but rebel is not any less POV than resistance. Not sure if consistency is an issue. My intuition is that the
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Given that the ceasefire has held for 3 or 4 months now, and that the only fighting that has taken place in Rakhine state now has its own designated article (
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Fair enough. It just seems weird to me to put the explicit and direct support of the NUG in the same category as the under-the-table, covert Chinese support.
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China supports United Wa State Army, which supplies materials to insurgent fighters and rebel alliance. According to this Indian media:
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https://www.firstpost.com/world/pitting-rebels-against-military-junta-how-china-is-playing-dirty-in-myanmar-13407312.html/amp
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acknowledges the Shan language by using the a haphazard combination of "Hseni". Essentially, Hsenwi is
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Furthermore, even the Myanmar regime at this point is explicitly saying China took the rebels' side
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date as the ceasefire and also remove all the Rakhine content- moving that to the
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I agree, seems like something to put in an section about the overall. Go be
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and make sure each article on the English Knowledge has one in Burmese also
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Pretty much all the articles are biased. That's kind of the point of
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related articles on Knowledge. The WikiProject is also a part of the
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A news item involving Operation 1027 was featured on Knowledge's
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while Theinni is Burmanized. I went and changed for consistency.
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on Burmese subjects and articles on smaller towns and villages
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use the word "resistance" more than "rebel" while a third
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It seems like your edits took the relatively balanced
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material or diplomatic aid to the operation. Thoughs?
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I'd appreciate your input on this as native citizens.
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Southeast Asian military history task force articles
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as other contributors for some additional opinions.
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https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20231122_41/
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This article has been checked against the following
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1637: 1636: 1632: 1629: 1627: 1624: 1623: 1619: 1616: 1614: 1611: 1610: 1606: 1603: 1601: 1598: 1597: 1593: 1590: 1588: 1585: 1584: 1580: 1577: 1575: 1572: 1571: 1567: 1564: 1561: 1557: 1556: 1552: 1549: 1546: 1542: 1541: 1537: 1534: 1531: 1527: 1526: 1522: 1519: 1516: 1512: 1511: 1507: 1504: 1501: 1497: 1496: 1492: 1489: 1486: 1485:February 2024 1482: 1481: 1477: 1474: 1471: 1470:26–30 January 1467: 1466: 1462: 1459: 1456: 1455:15–24 January 1452: 1451: 1447: 1444: 1441: 1437: 1436: 1432: 1429: 1426: 1425:12–13 January 1422: 1421: 1417: 1414: 1411: 1407: 1406: 1402: 1399: 1396: 1392: 1391: 1387: 1384: 1381: 1377: 1376: 1372: 1369: 1366: 1362: 1361: 1357: 1354: 1351: 1347: 1346: 1342: 1339: 1336: 1335:4–13 December 1332: 1331: 1327: 1324: 1321: 1317: 1316: 1312: 1309: 1306: 1305:December 2023 1302: 1301: 1297: 1294: 1291: 1287: 1286: 1282: 1279: 1276: 1272: 1271: 1267: 1264: 1261: 1257: 1256: 1252: 1249: 1246: 1242: 1241: 1237: 1234: 1231: 1227: 1226: 1222: 1219: 1216: 1212: 1211: 1207: 1204: 1201: 1197: 1196: 1192: 1189: 1186: 1182: 1181: 1177: 1174: 1171: 1167: 1166: 1162: 1159: 1156: 1152: 1151: 1147: 1144: 1141: 1137: 1136: 1132: 1129: 1126: 1122: 1121: 1117: 1114: 1111: 1107: 1106: 1102: 1099: 1096: 1092: 1091: 1087: 1084: 1081: 1077: 1076: 1072: 1069: 1066: 1062: 1061: 1057: 1054: 1051: 1047: 1046: 1042: 1039: 1036: 1032: 1031: 1027: 1024: 1021: 1017: 1016: 1012: 1009: 1006: 1005:November 2023 1002: 1001: 997: 994: 991: 987: 986: 982: 979: 976: 972: 971: 967: 964: 961: 957: 956: 952: 949: 946: 942: 941: 937: 934: 931: 927: 926: 922: 919: 916: 912: 911: 907: 904: 901: 897: 896: 892: 889: 887: 884: 883: 879: 876: 873: 869: 868: 864: 861: 858: 854: 853: 849: 846: 844: 841: 840: 836: 833: 831: 828: 827: 821: 816: 813: 812: 808: 802: 801: 797:Section sizes 795: 794: 790: 783: 782: 763: 755: 751: 750: 747: 739: 735: 734: 731: 723: 719: 718: 715: 713: 708: 707: 702: 698: 691: 689: 684:criterion met 676: 673:criterion met 665: 662:criterion met 654: 651:criterion met 643: 632: 631: 630: 629: 626: 623: 622: 616: 613: 608: 604: 603: 600: 583: 579: 575: 574: 569: 566: 562: 561: 557: 553: 552:Post-Cold War 549: 545: 540: 537: 534: 530: 529: 506: 502: 500: 496: 494: 493:2015 election 490: 486: 484: 483: 478: 476: 473: 471: 470: 465: 462: 460: 459: 454: 451: 447: 444: 442: 441: 436: 433: 429: 425: 423: 422: 417: 416: 413: 409: 405: 404: 398: 395: 393: 390: 388: 385: 383: 380: 379: 377: 376: 372: 371: 367: 363: 359: 353: 350: 349: 346: 329: 324: 320: 316: 315: 310: 304: 293: 291: 288: 284: 283: 279: 273: 270: 267: 263: 262: 258: 254: 248: 240: 236: 231: 230: 219: 215: 211: 206: 205: 204: 198: 194: 191: 187: 186: 177: 173: 170: 167: 163: 159: 155: 152: 149: 146: 143: 140: 137: 134: 131: 127: 124: 123:Find sources: 120: 119: 111: 110:Verifiability 108: 106: 103: 101: 98: 97: 96: 87: 83: 81: 78: 76: 72: 69: 67: 64: 63: 57: 53: 52:Learn to edit 49: 46: 41: 40: 37: 36: 32: 26: 22: 18: 17: 2439:EmeraldRange 2437: 2403: 2396: 2361:EmeraldRange 2359: 2337:EmeraldRange 2314:EmeraldRange 2312:Agree with @ 2294:EmeraldRange 2292: 2244:EmeraldRange 2242: 2190:EmeraldRange 2188: 2165: 2109:EmeraldRange 2107: 2042: 2020:— Preceding 2004: 1981: 1957:EmeraldRange 1955: 1933: 1908:EmeraldRange 1906: 1895:EAO as rebel 1837:EmeraldRange 1829: 1807:EmeraldRange 1805: 1790: 1767:EmeraldRange 1765: 1742:EmeraldRange 1739: 1716:EmeraldRange 1714: 1683:EmeraldRange 1676: 1395:January 2024 915:October 2023 814:Section name 619: 571: 498: 497: 480: 479: 467: 466: 456: 455: 438: 437: 419: 418: 357: 312: 308: 253:WikiProjects 201: 200: 171: 165: 157: 150: 144: 138: 132: 122: 94: 19:This is the 1797:Minntheking 1763:and do it! 1560:August 2024 1410:3–7 January 1350:15 December 1290:27 November 1275:26 November 1260:25 November 1245:24 November 1230:23 November 1215:18 November 1170:13 November 1155:12 November 660:Structure: 373:To-do list: 207:section on 203:In the news 148:free images 31:not a forum 2477:Categories 1844:NasssaNser 1736:November 2 1639:References 1500:April 2024 1320:1 December 1125:9 November 1110:8 November 1095:7 November 1080:6 November 1065:4 November 1050:3 November 1035:2 November 1020:1 November 990:31 October 975:30 October 960:29 October 945:28 October 930:27 October 843:Background 2341:TheoValor 2332:balanced. 2269:TheoValor 2215:TheoValor 2213:version. 2169:TheoValor 2026:TheoValor 2012:TheoValor 1587:Reactions 1545:July 2024 1530:June 2024 221:Knowledge 197:Main Page 88:if needed 71:Be polite 21:talk page 2449:contribs 2371:contribs 2304:contribs 2264:WP:UNDUE 2254:contribs 2229:WP:UNDUE 2200:contribs 2119:contribs 2034:contribs 2022:unsigned 1967:contribs 1918:contribs 1817:contribs 1793:JAMB2023 1777:contribs 1746:JAMB2023 1726:contribs 1679:JAMB2023 1657:156,255 1613:See also 1600:Analysis 893:105,544 886:Timeline 621:criteria 452:articles 56:get help 29:This is 27:article. 2433:马来西亚古晋人 2283:WP:NPOV 2234:WP:TONE 2184:WP:NPOV 1833:Vif12vf 1761:WP:BOLD 1700:Prefer 1654:156,255 1553:11,680 1523:22,616 1313:11,687 1013:42,174 923:16,661 908:77,371 837:27,740 822:Section 387:history 360:on the 333:Myanmar 319:Myanmar 272:Myanmar 243:C-class 199:in the 154:WP refs 142:scholar 1869:Ironic 1803:page. 1702:Hsenwi 1607:5,429 1594:2,337 1581:5,423 1574:Impact 1568:4,723 1550:11,680 1538:6,182 1493:1,669 1478:1,810 1463:1,486 1448:5,541 1433:2,096 1418:4,698 1403:6,818 1388:1,597 1373:2,981 1358:2,374 1343:3,051 1328:1,628 1298:2,401 1283:2,240 1268:1,253 1253:1,277 1238:1,367 1223:1,712 1208:3,004 1178:3,653 1163:1,799 1148:2,442 1133:2,233 1118:1,943 1103:5,032 1088:4,010 1073:3,435 1043:2,090 998:2,209 983:1,478 968:1,290 953:2,483 938:9,178 880:6,068 865:3,037 850:9,122 834:27,740 824:total 491:after 482:Update 440:Expand 249:scale. 126:Google 2288:WP:OR 2262:Your 2065:Loned 1681:and @ 1651:Total 1626:Notes 1604:5,429 1591:2,337 1578:5,423 1565:4,723 1535:6,182 1490:1,669 1475:1,810 1460:1,486 1430:2,096 1415:4,698 1385:1,597 1370:2,981 1355:2,374 1340:3,051 1325:1,628 1295:2,401 1280:2,240 1265:1,253 1250:1,277 1235:1,367 1220:1,712 1205:3,004 1175:3,653 1160:1,799 1145:2,442 1130:2,233 1115:1,943 1100:5,032 1085:4,010 1070:3,435 1040:2,090 995:2,209 980:1,478 965:1,290 950:2,483 935:9,178 877:6,068 862:3,037 830:(Top) 819:count 544:Asian 499:Other 469:Stubs 458:Photo 397:purge 392:watch 169:JSTOR 130:books 84:Seek 2464:talk 2445:talk 2409:talk 2367:talk 2345:talk 2323:talk 2300:talk 2273:talk 2250:talk 2219:talk 2196:talk 2173:talk 2150:talk 2134:talk 2115:talk 2096:talk 2069:talk 2051:talk 2030:talk 2016:talk 1991:talk 1982:Done 1963:talk 1941:talk 1914:talk 1883:EAOs 1873:talk 1848:talk 1835:and 1813:talk 1773:talk 1750:talk 1722:talk 1691:talk 1646:499 1620:135 1508:552 1193:890 1058:493 1028:876 817:Byte 448:and 382:edit 162:FENS 136:news 73:and 2460:羽衣狐 2429:羽衣狐 2006:in 1887:NUG 1875:) 1706:GAD 1643:499 1633:26 1617:135 1505:552 1190:890 1055:493 1025:876 352:Mid 176:TWL 2479:: 2466:) 2451:) 2411:) 2373:) 2347:) 2325:) 2306:) 2275:) 2256:) 2221:) 2202:) 2175:) 2152:) 2136:) 2121:) 2098:) 2071:) 2053:) 2036:) 2032:• 1993:) 1969:) 1943:) 1920:) 1901:, 1897:, 1893:, 1860:, 1819:) 1779:) 1752:) 1744:. 1728:) 1693:) 1630:26 1520:31 1445:24 1400:24 1310:56 1010:24 920:23 905:31 890:16 847:17 710:/ 550:/ 546:/ 542:: 430:, 156:) 54:; 2462:( 2447:/ 2443:( 2431:@ 2407:( 2369:/ 2365:( 2343:( 2335:@ 2321:( 2302:/ 2298:( 2271:( 2252:/ 2248:( 2217:( 2198:/ 2194:( 2171:( 2148:( 2132:( 2117:/ 2113:( 2094:( 2067:( 2049:( 2028:( 2014:( 1989:( 1965:/ 1961:( 1950:@ 1939:( 1916:/ 1912:( 1871:( 1839:: 1831:@ 1815:/ 1811:( 1795:@ 1791:@ 1775:/ 1771:( 1748:( 1724:/ 1720:( 1689:( 584:. 501:: 485:: 472:: 461:: 443:: 424:: 364:. 255:: 213:. 172:· 166:· 158:· 151:· 145:· 139:· 133:· 128:( 58:.

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