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popular posts. For instance when
Persson was implementing a new moon texture the community was literally split in half whether it should be round or square. I'm sure this story is on a Minecraft page somewhere, but as far as controversies go, this is probably the biggest of them all. An outstanding amount of people discussed these changes. Furthermore, everyone has the right to an opinion (even if it's a bad one). If you read Persson's personal blog there are surely many discussion topics that many people would disagree with. No one thought to choose a controversial programming topic? Such as whether or not voxel based games would become a future technology? That was a heated discussion in the day. The page doesn't describe Persson's technological contributions to computer programming either. Nor does the page describe his education. Are Knowledge writers seriously this politically biased to choose a one sentence twitter post that doesn't describe why he believes what he does? It doesn't describe the limits of his opinion. Where it may apply, or where it may not. Persson seems to be a reasonable man that changes his opinions if someone has a wise and thoughtful argument. It's obvious he feels that the (I dunno what to call it) "anti-white" movement? has some flaws. Are you to suppose that this movement has done "nothing wrong"? Or better yet, have they done "everything right" and therefore voids all criticism? This is important as to properly establish a full story. Perhaps controversy is properly within scope, but it feels like each section of the whole article tells 0.1% of his story. Picking on his twitter rather than his blog where he explains his opinions in detail is a cowardly way to write articles. In 2014 this page explained a controversy about Electronic Arts. If that topic isn't suitable for this page now. Was it ever suitable? If not, then how is the controversy section ever suitable? "Starting around 2017, Persson began receiving criticism for political and social opinions he expressed on Twitter" This is wholly incorrect. Persson has been discussing with his fans on his blog and twitter since Minecraft development began (I didn't start following him until about infdev so I don't know about before then). He gave many political, technological, and religious opinions over the years that many disagree with. Or is the author assuming that only criticism from the "media" matters? Nobody cares about the media's opinion. They never followed Persson throughout the development of his game. They don't have the experience to have an opinion in these matters. Nor did the person who wrote that sentence know the "historical background".
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a source exists doesn't warrant its use in an article. Read Bill Maher's wiki too. His article contains a politics section where his political beliefs are explained. For instance "He has referred to himself as a "9/11 liberal", noting that his formerly liberal view of Islam changed as a result of the attacks on
September 11, 2001, and he differentiates himself from liberals of the opinion that all religions are alike." This article doesn't just state something racist that Bill said. It explains his political view, and why he believes it. Persson's article doesn't have an argument in the controversies section. It's not explaining Persson's political opinion and why it's good or bad. it's just stating something he said. If the article said "Persson believes X because of X reason" then it would warrant the opposing opinion of his critics. Furthermore, the following quotations have no sources: "made up metric." "tone-deaf" and "ignorant". If I wrote that in a paper I'd be thrown out of my university for plagiarism. It seems the main issue for this article is that few sources exist that explain Persson and his political beliefs. The corpus for that is mainly his blog and twitter. Knowledge's rules do state that "...questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves..." (including activities). I think it would be acceptable to select a few interesting things about Persson's beliefs via his blog so that readers could gain an understanding of him, rather than just "Here's a couple off-coloured things that he said". Then you'll have created a substantiated vision and argument of who he is.
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0x10c. It describes the event in an unbiased manner and moves on (As it should). If anything, this page should criticize
Microsoft for not recognizing the difference between personal opinion and business. To an extent: Minecraft was only popular during development due to the excitement of following the developers in the adventure of discovery. Notch gathered a community around himself. It's obvious that Microsoft only cares about the monetary value of Minecraft and never understood the relation between Notch and his community. Without Notch there is no Minecraft. Obviously he chose to leave Mojang before Microsoft decided to remove his name from the game. I'm simply trying to describe that this article barely touches the surface and can ask much deeper questions. How did Notch create and effect his community? How did he become popular? Do people like his social media personality? How did people challenge Persson's opinions during development (where it actually mattered) compared to now post-development. How did Notch's "wackyness" or creative ideas effect his platform? When I read a Biography about Chopin it described who he was as a person. It brought Chopin's story to life. Persson's story is full of interesting, creative, and fun details. Evidence from his blog: "and it absolutely exploded. Because I enjoy talking to the players and community, and possibly because I will gladly share my opinions on things"
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a tweet which includes a screenshot of the quote. The tweet appears to be from a twitter user of no particular note. It received little attention (10 likes) and no verification. This does not seem like a trustworthy source. I've tried to find an archived version of Notch's tweet but have only found other links to the tweet in question. From WP:RS/QUOTE: "To ensure accuracy, the text of quoted material is best taken from (and cited to) the original source being quoted. If this is not possible, then the text may be taken from a reliable secondary source (ideally one that includes a citation to the original).". The relevant part being "a reliable secondary source". Other (controversial) tweets of this, e.g. "It's OK to be white", are sourced with an article either linking to the tweet or an archive of the tweet, but this one in particular fails to meet this standard. I propose replacing the reference with an archive of the tweet or removing it if one cannot be found. In the form of a "please change X to Y": Please change "Later in June 2017, he tweeted in support of a heterosexual pride day, calling opponents to the idea "cunts" and stating that they "deserve to be shot"." to "", or please change the source for the aforementioned sentence to a reference to the tweet in question.
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okay to be white” so what? Why should the reader of this wiki care? I think this is totally out of the articles scope. This is not an article on racism or liberal politics. Why should anyone care about
Persson’s opinion about anything? The reason the voxel controversy was so good was because he provided a logical and reasonable explanation into why he thought voxel-based games would never become the future. This is a meaningless one sentence twitter post that could be interpreted in a variety of ways.
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Social media is not a place for children. Nor is it the official Mojang or
Minecraft twitter accounts. It’s his personal twitter account. If you caught your favourite children’s show actor in a bar swearing, you’d be surprised. But that actor has the right to speak his mind when he is not representing the show. These twitter posts were made two years after Persson left Mojang. How long does he represent the game that he no longer represents?
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explains what a splash screen is. Technically it's a menu screen not a splash screen, but it's accurate enough. "Loading screen" is simply incorrect. A menu screen is not a loading screen. Even putting "from the game's menu" is sufficiently accurate. I doubt readers care about the details of the "splash text" and how it works.
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Technica says "In 2017, he tweeted, "If you're against the concept of a #HeterosexualPrideDay, you're a complete fucking cunt and deserve to be shot," though this, too, was subsequently deleted." Ars Technica is a reliable source, and we can take their word that that was the text of the original
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The quote: "he tweeted in support of a heterosexual pride day, calling opponents to the idea "cunts" and stating that they "deserve to be shot"." from the "Controversies" section of this page does not seem to have a adequate source. The provided reference is to a news article which in turn references
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I still question what you're trying to tell the reader with the controversy section. The first and second paragraph only have one source each which is not "multiple sources" as you suggest. Which I believe are different issues and do not relate to each other; they are not the same event. Just because
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Read the Bill O’Reilly and Donald Trump wiki-page. They are known for actually saying racist and controversial things every time their mouth opens. Neither page has a “controversies” section. Bill O’Reilly’s page explains his political views before the negative aspects of those views. Persson isn’t a
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Furthermore, it’s only conjecture that those lines were removed for political reasons. Maybe they wanted less text. Or perhaps they removed it because
Persson doesn’t work on the game anymore. “Made by Notch” Well is it made by Notch anymore? There are multiple reasonable conclusions for this removal.
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Since the article is locked, I thought I should say this here. In the "controversies" section of this article, there is a grammatically incorrect sentence in the second paragraph, part of which is quoted here: "Persson was not invited to part of the event." This should either say "to be part of" or
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Hey, this is certainly an improvement, but unfortunately there is still no definitive source. It seems likely that the Arcs
Technica article is referencing the tweet made by the random twitter user. I think that a source for this claim should be held to the same standards as the other tweets sourced
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These sources do not reliably present the facts. Both articles are biased. They tell the reader what to believe rather than presenting their information and letting the reader come to their own conclusions. For instance, “a tweet that was definitely not appropriate for the game’s many younger fans”.
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Cited source for the phrase "Microsoft eventually dissociated from
Persson following comments on his Twitter account which faced criticism for accusations of being racist, homophobic, and sexist." does not include language "accusations of being racist, homophobic, and sexist." The op-ed blog article
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Persson has never had his name or his handle on any of the loading screens. Second, we do not know if it was
Microsoft or Jeb or dinnerbone that removed Notch’s handle from the SPLASH text file. That’s the little yellow text that shows up under the title in the main menu. It’s called “splash text”.
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His name removal from Minecraft needs to be on this page; it is a notable change and got significant coverage. But there is no other reasonable place to put it. The only thing we can add is something like "While Microsoft did not comment on this change, several journalists considered it as response
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And finally, what are you trying to tell the reader with the political section? Like I said, there’s many better controversies we could use. There’s no inherent value to the second paragraph. Sweden is one of the most liberal societies, open to pretty much anything. He made a tweet that said “It’s
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Change "Microsoft eventually dissociated from Persson following comments on his Twitter account which faced criticism for accusations of being racist, homophobic, and sexist." to "Microsoft eventually dissociated from Persson following controversial comments on his Twitter account which he posted
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If anything the controversy section tells readers what to believe about the negative side of Persson. This article doesn't quote another article that called Persson "lazy" when he didn't provide Minecraft updates fast enough. It doesn't call him "lazy" when he no longer had the effort to finish
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Microsoft made no comment over the removal of the splash text. Mojang just removed the splash text with no further comment. The source listed speculates about the reason, admitting Microsoft had not responded to it. It is pure speculation to include this information in this section implying the
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Thanks! I read the source for the "from the game's loading screens" statement. Nowhere does the source state that Persson's name was removed from the loading screen. It specifically says "the game’s splash screens have removed all mention of Minecraft’s creator Markus “Notch” Persson." Then it
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Can I ask the point of having any controversies on Persson's wiki? The ones listed are not substantial at all. If the number of people viewing or complaining about something is the tool of measurement for being considered than surely those listed aren't even among the top 10% of Persson's most
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It's not speculative, given the way it was reported. It happened shortly after Notch's comments, and while we are not saying "they were removed because of his comments", we are letting the timing of events, coupled with how the media reported on that, speak for itself.
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I've removed the "starting in 2017", both as a valid "unsupported claim" and an unnecessity. As to the rest, I'm not going to argue about "the sources are biased". They are reliable sources in the eyes of Knowledge that have been repeatedly discussed and vetted. --
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It would fit in that section if Mojang/Microsoft has given a reason for the removal; they haven't, so conclusions shouldn't be made from it. It isn't some obscure thing, but it's just unsubstantiated gossip until reasoning is given (which won't happen).
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So I was wondering if the last sentence of the first paragraph could be considered original research or opinion. I mean, it's obvious that those are the things that he is best known for, but I'm new to Knowledge and don't quite know the rules yet.
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I think that there should be some article or something like that, maybe a mini-biography online or perhaps, if he has one, a personal website's mini-autobiography (this may not be suitable considering that it is Persson's description of himself)?
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Yes, it actually does, if we are then subsequently talking about MS distancing itself from Notch at the 10th anniversary event. This is not some obscure thing covered by a few sources, and it clearly fits in the "story".
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which predates the Notch controversy and (other than a brief allusion to "medieval serfs") does not explicitly compare the villagers to any specific real-life group of people, or stereotype thereof.
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covering this? The only allegations of anti-Semitism within the game itself I've been able to find are all speculation on social media, which generally isn't going to cut it, especially when
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TV personality, he’s just some guy that accidentally made a popular video game. Who cares that he like many other people state their opinions on a platform that encourages opinions?
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We've reached out to Microsoft for a statement as to why references to Notch have been removed. It's unclear if this decision is related to his controversial comments.
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only states "Notch has gained notoriety in recent times for the controversial and inflammatory tweets he's posted regarding race and gender, among other topics."
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Nearly every source that reported on the splash text removal associated with Notch's comments. It fits there even if we don't express the reason. --
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On the side bar it says that he is the one who created Mojang, even though he was just a Co-creator. We should change "created" to "co-created"
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It doesn't "need" to be on the page, though I'd agree that an additional comment would need to be there if this were to remain on the page.
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What section should it be placed in then? There is no better section unless we make another one just for a single sentence going against
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There have been allegations of the villagers in Minecraft being an antisemitic portrayal of Jewish people, which should be added to the
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to give to a particular controversy. The only news article I found about any sort of politics surrounding Minecraft villagers was
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I have found a RS that has the quote directly (not showing the tweet but acknowledging it was deleted) that supports the quote --
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Microsoft eventually dissociated from Persson following controversial comments regarding topics such as race and gender on his
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I have corrected this information. "Microsoft" didn't remove it; they have no say in the development of Minecraft. And it
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Then it shouldn't be on the page. Placing this in that section gives the implication that it was caused by his opinions.
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
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This is my first Knowledge edit (request), so I apologize if I've messed up the formatting or something similar.
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Sections is warranted and due, as multiple reliable secondary sources have covered the controversies. --
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It's being placed in the "Controversy over opinions" section, which why is this would be speculative.
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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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tweet, there's nothing there to suggest they got it from a middle man. --
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This page literally has two claims that are incorrect:
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He is best known for creating the sandbox video game
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585:regarding race and gender, among other topics."
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87:splash's removal was because of his tweets.
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464:Maybe citation 40, 41 will be sufficient
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274:to Perrson's comments." --
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1266:Thank you for your time.
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508:Minor Edit Recommendation
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1011:) I am speaking of the
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1336:Swausinator
1274:Swausinator
1070:controversy
847:(see, e.g.
675:Thoughts?
36:This is an
1421:I created
1405:|answered=
1243:|answered=
1150:|answered=
1072:section.
890:|answered=
521:Will Joyce
466:87.79.71.3
444:|answered=
1458:Aaron Liu
1450:Not done:
1112:Ionmars10
973:Minecraft
378:WP:LAYOUT
66:Archive 2
60:Archive 1
1344:contribs
1332:unsigned
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988:account.
980:in 2009.
958:contribs
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924:Thjarkur
808:Nixinova
679:unsigned
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483:Nixinova
348:Nixinova
296:Nixinova
245:Nixinova
194:Nixinova
147:Nixinova
92:Nixinova
1351:undated
1289:undated
986:Twitter
593:Valkoun
536:undated
39:archive
1005:Swinxy
992:SWinxy
978:Mojang
937:Maybe?
928:(talk)
763:ferret
699:ferret
177:ferret
1486:KNOWZ
1409:|ans=
1395:This
1247:|ans=
1237:This
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880:This
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845:QAnon
611:Done
562:KNOWZ
479:Done
448:|ans=
434:This
386:KNOWZ
82:Masem
16:<
1492:TALK
1484:HELL
1477:Done
1462:talk
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560:HELL
556:. —
553:Done
525:talk
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384:HELL
380:. —
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