Talk:History of Norway

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history in an encyclopedia, certainly not an open-source one. For that, read a history book. An encyclopedia should primarily be a place to look up facts. The articles should contain facts, such as years of important events, names of rulers and so on. And in cases where the facts are not hard and clear (as is most often the case in history), the article should ideally present the main alternative viewpoints. Social history, cultural history, the "living conditions for the people" don't lend themselves to NPOV-descriptions. You have to take a viewpoint in order to write history like that, you have to make choices, that sort of history doesn't contain many hard facts, and will inherantly be debatable and controversial. If you look in wikipedia for historical synthesis, you are looking in the wrong place - it's a bit like going to a

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sure you know, for instance, of Claus Krag's recent biography of King Sverre, something no historian would have dared to write in the 1960s. And people like Sverre Bagge are again emphasizing the role of individuals, and the political game between individuals, kings and other magnates, in shaping the country, as opposed to the dying marxist historiography which only emphasized impersonal economic and social forces. If you want to add to the article, please do, although paraphrasing or summarizing one single book probably isn't such a good idea. I would certainly have a look at the Cambridge History of Scandinavia as well, for instance. But the best is probably if people write about the period they know a lot about. No one can be expected to be an expert on the entire history of Norway.

1478:"The lack of suitable farming land in Western Norway caused Norwegians to travel to the sparsely populated areas such as Shetland, Orkney, the Faroe Islands and the Hebrides to colonize" - because there is such a massive abundance of suitable farming land in Shetland, Orkney, the Faroe Islands and the Hebrides? I'd posit that Shetland, Orkney, the Faroe Islands and the Hebrides were perfect places to export the way of life of Western Norway as a successful model. Those who sought land went to England (or, at least many of those who went to England and setteld there, sought land.) But that's my OR and all that. 311: 1413:(Digression: In Norway people talk of North-Norway, West Norway (Vestlandet), East Norway (Oestlandet) and the South Land (Soerlandet). The latter is the fairly narrow and short strip of coastland in Aust-Agder (and some parts of Vest-Agder, in the interest of tourism). Genereally speaking, however, there is a South Norway (The "South Land", Eastern and Western Norway) and North Norway (Nordland, Troms, Finnmark), with the Trondelag as a sort of self-declared "Central Norway" or "Mid-Norway". This makes seem strange sentences like ...) 31: 1058:

some sections haven't been written about yet. The period 1380-1814 needs more extensive work, and also the post-war period. The problem is, basically, that no one has got around to writing about those, while they have written about the middle ages and WWII. So it's not that the whole article needs a rewrite, it's these periods that need an extension, and I'm sure in time they will come. (I have myself been planning to write more about 1380-1536, but finding the time...)

85: 64: 1490:" In 1130 the civil war era broke out on the basis of unclear succession laws, which allowed all the king's sons to rule jointly." Sounds like they introduced some very confusing succession laws in 1130. Having all sons of a king to rule jointly must have been incredibly stressful all around. (And the "Succession law" link leads to the seven people in line for the throne of Norway after the present king Harald V. Precious little relevance. ) 95: 1416:"... agricultural settlements appeared around the Oslofjord. Gradually, ... these .... spread into the southern areas of Norway - whilst the inhabitants of the northern regions continued to hunt and fish". Well, Oslo _is_ i the southern areas of Norway - relatively far south, actually. "... up throughout"? And for sure the inhabs of S-Nor continued to hunt and fish, as if their life depended on it, as their life depended on it. 406: 385: 22: 301: 280: 416: 190: 169: 751:

Ringstad (1986) has estimated that there were nine small realms in western Norway in the viking age. It is therefore probably not a stretch to estimate at least 20 in the whole country. We can also not necessarily define the small realms as "Norwegian". There are many indications of Danish overlordship in southeastern Norway for at least parts of the period.

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includes "10,000 BC." Also, I believe "BC" & "CE" don't match, either. "BC" means "Before Christ," which matches with "AD" ("Anno Domini," "The Year of Our Lord"). "BCE" means "Before Common Era," & matches with "CE" ("Common Era"). I changed that in the subhead & text (to BC/AD, which seems to be the Knowledge standard).

1435:"In 1884 the king appointed Johan Sverdrup as prime minister, thus establishing parliamentarism." I don't like this one either, but ...: "During the 1884 constitutional crisis, the king was forced to appoint the parliamentary nominee Johan Sverdrup as prime minister, thus establishing parliamentarism." 1145:

Well, don't agree with you here either. Academic historical scholarship (at least in Norway) pretty much lost interest in political/military history entirely in the 1940s at the latest if not in the inter-war years, not the 1970s. Now, however, political history is again on the rise in academia. I am

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Here is a slightly streamlined version from the Wiki page on the S/N Union: "Following the 1814 Treaty of Kiel, Norway was to be ceded from Denmark to Sweden, but declared itself independent and adopted its own constitution. A brief war with Sweden resulted in the Convention of Moss on 14 August and

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On the one hand, there is the problem that some periods get undue attention. The WWII-section is very long, I agree, and could probably do with a trimming, and moving parts into the specialised articles about Norway during WWII. But the main reason for the imbalance between different periods is that

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So, it's fairly settled what the English etymology of Norway is, but the Norwegian word forNorway is quite unrelated; Norge, coming from "Nor rige", that is, northern realm, realm of the northmen or even realm of Nor (mythical person) I'm no expert here, but if anyone knows anything, please add this

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Det som kjennetegner den politiske situasjonen først på 800-tallet, er at landet var delt opp i en rekke småriker, hvert med sitt eller sine maktsentre. (...) Vi vet ikke hvor mange riker og maktsentre det var først på 800-tallet. På Vestlandet har arkeologen Bjørn Ringstad (1986) anslått at det var

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On the other hand, the bias towards political and military history, and lack of social, cultural and demographic history, "living conditions for the people". I think you have a wrong expectation about what an encyclopedia-article should be. One cannot expect a thorough synthesis of all aspects of

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I'm not going to quibble over the NPOV tag, because I obviously agree that Kven and Sami history deserve attention. But I'm not sure it's the right tag, because the article doesn't suffer so much from bias as being incomplete. Which can be said about many other aspects of the article as well. For

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On a side note, concernin Snorre and the other Icelandic sagas: They were written from about 1180 onwards - more than 300 years after the first unification of the kingdom. The further back in time, the less reliable they are as historical sources. For the 9th century and earlier, one must be very

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The history presented is very much event-based, first this happened and than that happened and so on.. Would it be meaningful to expand the article's view on history and include more about society in general, how this evolves, and how politics, economics and culture changes though time?

1451:"The Nøstvet culture took over from the Fosna culture ca. 7000 BC, which (who, the Fosna ?) adapted to a warmer climate which gave increased forestation and new mammals for hunting." Cool - or is it "uncool"? Adapting to a warmer climate gives new mammals, what with the massive breeder program. 1409:

The coastal areas are not "warmed by the Gulf stream, making life more bearable" ... Between the GS and Norway there is first the Atlantic drift, and then there is the Coastal Stream, which originates in the Baltic, not Florida (still warmer than the North Atlantic, of course). Norway has high

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The main feature of the political situation in the early 9th century, is that the country was divided into a number of small realms, each with its own centre, or centres, of power. (...) We do not know how many realms and centres of power there were in the early 9th century. Archaeologist Bjørn

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First sentence in this section: "there were people in Norway as early as the 5th millennium BC (12,000 years ago)." These number don't match: 5th millennum BC (or BCE) was 7,000 years ago; 12,000 years ago was the 10th millennium BCE. Which is it? I'm guessing it's the latter, since the subhed

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is a bit too vague. I also doubt that the -way in Galloway, Kennoway or Galway derives from Old Norse is dubious at best. They all have original Irish/Gaelic names on which the English names are based. If someone suggests that the Celtic names are based on Old Norse, sources would be needed to

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I have never heard of the so-called "Christina the Magnificent" of Strandgaten in Bergen, and that her coming marked the end of the Norwegian national decline (which started because of the Black Death and subsequent union under Denmark). Those lines, early in the article, should be deleted.

1454:"This period also saw the arrival of the Corded Ware culture, who brought new weapons, tools and the Indo-European language, from which the Norwegian language developed." Changing "who" to "which" would make this a lot less funny. Although IE language imported in Corded Ware still is. 637:

Could anyone mention which sources suggest nor -ay is a viable etymology for Nóregr? It doesn't seem to make much sense. Island in old Norse is 'ey'. So that should make something like Nórey. Not Nóregr. I am very tempted to delete the whole sentence unless someone can come up with a

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The reason for doing this is simply a part of my viewpoint on how an encyclopedia should be: Each article should have some sort of summary at the start contemplated by the following text which goes deeper in describing the subject. It makes things easier for everyone, I think.

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Prehistory: "The immigration .... something. /.../ They were nomadic." Who? The Immigration? Must be a new band. "Increased ice receding from 8000 BC caused settlement along the entire coastline." Increased receding caused settlement? Is it just me who finds this awkward?

1402:"About 10,000 BC, following the retreat of the great inland ice sheets, the earliest inhabitants migrated north into the territory which is now Norway. They traveled steadily northwards along the coastal areas, warmed by the Gulf Stream, where life was more bearable." 1475:"Vikings ... had a psychological advantage over Christians ... since they believed that being killed in combat would result in them going to Valhalla." And the Christians wouldn't go to Heaven? OK, ok ... but it's just such a sweeping psychological generalization. 1410:

average temperatures and less temp. spread realtive to its latitude, that is true. This info could perhaps be placed with he first sentence. And perhaps combined with one sentence on Geology/Topography, which would explain or at least underpin that first sentence.

1441:"From the 1980s Norway started deregulation in many sectors. In two referendums, Norway has refused to join the European Union, while maintaining close ties to the EU via its membership in EFTA and thereby in the EEA." This one is perhaps broader in outlook? 1422:"The migration period caused the first chieftains to take control ..." This is just so .... There were probably chieftains a long time before the migration age (and clans, too). And the age doesn't _cause_ anything. At best, in an age, we can _see_ that X. 885:

I personally think the tag is appropriate as a warning to readers that this article unintentionally represents a POV that the history of Norway is only about one ethnic group. But the important thing is that the article needs to be expanded to resolve this

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For the record: The claim that the name Norway originates from the short strait by Karmoy, is at its best a SPECULATIVE thesis. The root word is more likely to mean "direction", and was applied to the entire coastline. There is no evidence for this claim!

1448:"The Stone Age consisted of the Komsa culture in Troms and Finnmark and the Fosna culture further south." Or: "The Komsa culture in Troms and Finnmark and the Fosna culture further south are evidence of Stone Age culture/settlements/habitation something"? 1466:"The chieftains' power increased during the Migration Period between 400 to 550 as other Germanic tribes migrated northwards and local farmers wanted protection." The Migration Age page states that Scandinavia was largely unaffected by the Migrations. 1481:" abolishing the rites in Norse mythology was first attempted by Olav Tryggvason.." a) How do you abolish the rites of a mythology? What does that even mean? b) Olav was perhaps the third king who was an xian (Ericus Sanguisecuris, Haakon the Good) 731:

ni småriker i vikingtiden. Det er derfor neppe å ta for hardt i om vi regner med minst 20 i hele landet. Vi kan heller ikke nødvendigvis regne smårikene som "norske". Mye tyder på dansk overherredømme i Sørøst-Norge i hvert fall i deler av perioden.

1487:"Many chieftains feared that the Christianization would rob them of power in lieu of their roles as heathen priests" In lieu? "Many chieftains feared that the Christianization would rob them of power instead of their roles as heathen priests"? 1276:

Related to the above question. Does anyone know if the borders drawn onto the 1761 map (at the bottom of the page) are something added to the original at a later time? The coloring seems to be modern, but does it also apply to the borders?

975:, this is undisputed. "Norrige" is a Danish distortion of modern times. The etymology of Noregr is quite commonly explained in the same way as English "Norway" - Way to the north. They are not unrelated at all, they are the same.-- 721:

This is a question of definition. Personally, I am uncomfortable with the word 'Kingdoms', as it implies that they were more organised than they actually were. Anyway, let me quote "Jernalderen i Norge" (The iron age in Norway) by

1425:(This one's not for this page, but the history page claims rapid population increase in the middle ages while the viking related pages claim overpopulation as a factor that triggered the viking age. Go, as it were, figure.) 1696:". How about linking to it? Or ... the "History" section in the "Norway" article is more extensive than this page devoted solely to the history of Norway. Instead of fixing this one, it should perhaps just be deleted? T 863:

I believe that an NPOV tag is inapropriate. The article is lacking an important piece of Norwegian history and needs to be expanded, but such a tag is to be used when the information already present in the article is

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It seems like Knowledge has no description about when, why, and how, the final border between Norway, Sweden/Finland, and Russia were drawn. This seems like a major event that should be described in this article.

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Afaik _among some of the earliest_ settlers are found reindeer hunters from a culture centered in the area around present day Berlin. As the ice receded, they probably followed the reindeer wherever those went.

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It's not really helpful for anyone wanting to know anything about Norwegian history before WWII. The topic "Viking kings" is not too meaningful when its content includes the medieval period by the way.

1428:"In 1814 Norway was ceded from Denmark to Sweden and a constitution was passed. Norway declared its independence but was then occupied by Sweden, although the Parliament was allowed to continue to exist." 1716:

is a NO language page on the people's right to regicide if the king broke the law, given in para 75 of the Frostating law; in support of Olav II being killed at Stiklestad "in accordance with the law". T

1463:" Some of the most powerful farmers became chieftains." "The role of chieftain passed to the powerful among the farmers." (""The role of chieftain was now taken up by the most powerful landlords."?) 1654: 1523:

As far as I can tell, it references the same source 90% of the time with no original reference point (that I see). Am I overlooking it? If not, how could this even happen in the first place?

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the Norwegian Storting (parliament) electing Charles XIII of Sweden as King of Norway, while Norwy retained its own legislature, cabinet, administration, church, armed forces, and currency."

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A lot of this sounds like a machine translated holiday resort brochure reused in a term paper. You get the intention, and it's almost there, but not quite, neither wrt. language nor content.

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This article could almost be used as a showcase for Knowledge's inherent bias towards military and political history, as described by the historian Roy Rosenzweig in his article:

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500 years of Norwegian history, i.e. The Kalmar Union + The Oldenburg dynasty/union with Denmark + the inter war years + post WW2 time, doesn't receive any serious treatment.

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and any interested party is invited to take part in reviewing the article. If you know the history of scandinavia, then please stop by and help the peer review of the artile

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The article is a mix of bad language which partly creates, partly masks misinformation. Bold edits aren't enough, this requires someone who knows both English and History.

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Then, in the next paragraph, Norway makes the giant stride from the Neolithic straight to the Migration period. No bronze age? No pre-roman, roman iron age? Maraviglioso.

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I have added the NPOV tag to this article since it completely ignores the history of the Sami and Kven people. I believe there are two possible solutions to this problem:

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It does rather look like the article grew organically rather than being organized (probably because it did). Here's one vote for the etymology header and a new summary.

1793: 252: 367: 1225: 1210: 1206: 956: 1460:" Trading with Romans also took place, largely furs and skins in exchange for luxury goods. Some Scandinavians also served as Roman mercenaries. " Really? Really? 1170:

but in this article it purports that in Norway german POWs were forced by their 'british guards' (anyway why British? why not norwegians?? they ran norway after

1108:"After the Black Death Norway entered into a period of decline. The Royal line died out and the country entered into two unequal unions from 1396 until 1814" 1663: 1106:. Socical history isn't inherently biased to NPOV anymore than political history. E.g. the current version of the article's discussion on the Black death: 1763: 228: 726:(Oslo, 2000, p. 278). The book is in Norwegian, so I'll try to translate. It is on the reading list for archaeology-students at the university of Bergen: 1788: 1493:" The church inevitably had to take sides in the conflicts, with the civil was also becoming an issue regarding the church's influence of the king." ??? 501:

The opening paragraph should then be some sort of a brief summary of Norway's history, but more satisfying than the part of the main article on Norway (

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I was bold, and removed the speculative references to Karmøy. As Sparviere notes, this notion is far from generally accepted, and cannot be proved. --

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Its totally non-controversial statement. Sources like Snorre's Sagas, other Icelandic sagas give accounts of the division into petty kingdoms. --

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A fairly unexceptional anecdotes concerning the treatment of German POW in the late 1940s get more coverage than the entire post-war period.

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This is non-controversial. The number of kingdoms, dating of some of them and some other details might be cloudy, but not that any existed.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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I would like to see some citations showing that Norway was divided into 'Kingdoms' per se before the 7th, or even the 9th century.

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Since when was VG a right-wing website? I tried to dig up some info on Anders Chr. Gokstad, but I couldn't find anything. --

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The info on the linked page "Furhter info: Nordic Iron Age" consists of six lines of text, less than the section here.

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Since the 1970s, most academic historical scholarship has moved past political/military history towards emphasis on

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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example, the first Norwegian town was not Tunsberg, but Kaupang; and there are other minor problems as well. --

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The monarchy is get a lot of attention, whereas the living conditions for the people is barley mentioned.

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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https://web.archive.org/web/20140528014107/http://www.avinor.no/lufthavn/stavanger/omoss/70_Historikk

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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Nevermind, there is actually a legend that shows that the borders were in the original document.

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the

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Hello everyone. I think we should make the following changes to organization of the article:

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The best English language reference work for a rewrite of this article is (still) probably

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You are absolutely right. I would prefer solution #1, adding the histories of the peoples.

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does the subsection "Post-war Social policy" have any significant historical information?

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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion:

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https://www.webcitation.org/5uv6grx5a?url=http://www.lillehammer.kommune.no/files/75261/

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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And with " many aristocrats lost the basis for their surplus" I think I'll leave off.

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as it is laughable not having the etymology for a nation's name in its own language.

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No one has come up with a source, so I am deleting this highly dubious sentence. --

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the site that this revelation comes from is on a norwegian right-wing website (

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figures already indicate that, sadly, there was a high rate of injury or death

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Most scholarly and popular books about the history of Norway devout less than

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has an OK description of the Kven history that could be added to this article.

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article needs to be improved before content is added to this article, but the

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contradict each other in their accounts of Harald Fairhair's conquests. --

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The opening paragraph should be moved under a headline called "Etymology".

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I also prefer the #1 solution, but it requires more work. Currently the

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cautious in using them as historical sources - observe for instance how

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did the Norwegian King rule exclusively over Finnmark from 1000-1300AD?

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You raise interesting points, but on the whole I don't agree with you.

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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Can History be Open Source? Knowledge and the Future of the Past

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there is much to copy here from the parralel Norwegian article.

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https://en.wikipedia.org/Kingdom_of_Norway_(872%E2%80%931397)

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prepare.the anglo-sikh was kind. the indo-scythian is not.

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British troops forcing German POWs to run across minefields

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http://www.avinor.no/lufthavn/stavanger/omoss/70_Historikk

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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german POWs throughout Europe were used to clear ordnance

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Rename the article to the History of the Norwegian people.

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and expecting to buy a car (if you get my metaphor).--

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Olav V "... created an institution of priests." ???

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Norway: A History from the Vikings to Our Own Times

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Please take a moment to review 1392:Peer Review Scream of Desperation 206:related to all activities of the 1749:Knowledge level-5 vital articles 1161:what the devil is this rubbish? 414: 404: 383: 309: 299: 278: 188: 167: 93: 83: 62: 29: 20: 1819:Top-importance history articles 467:This article has been rated as 362:This article has been rated as 257:This article has been rated as 146:This article has been rated as 1779:Top-importance Norway articles 1759:B-Class level-5 vital articles 1530:18:59, 10 September 2016 (UTC) 1230:10:58, 14 September 2008 (UTC) 1010:In this article 25% covers WW2 632:15:28, 25 September 2006 (UTC) 1: 1386:09:48, 15 February 2013 (UTC) 1356:09:52, 15 February 2013 (UTC) 1251:22:52, 21 December 2008 (UTC) 932:15:48, 16 November 2007 (UTC) 447:Knowledge:WikiProject History 441:and see a list of open tasks. 336:and see a list of open tasks. 120:and see a list of open tasks. 1824:WikiProject History articles 1650:20:46, 4 November 2017 (UTC) 1519:Citations are too confusing. 1305:06:26, 16 January 2010 (UTC) 1256:Border(s) in Northern Norway 781:19:15, 16 January 2007 (UTC) 709:10:30, 16 January 2007 (UTC) 696:09:06, 16 January 2007 (UTC) 684:15:21, 11 January 2007 (UTC) 656:19:17, 16 January 2007 (UTC) 450:Template:WikiProject History 325:WikiProject European history 126:Knowledge:WikiProject Norway 7: 1784:WikiProject Norway articles 1727:04:36, 20 August 2022 (UTC) 1706:02:53, 16 August 2022 (UTC) 1287:04:44, 7 January 2010 (UTC) 1271:08:53, 5 January 2010 (UTC) 1211:18:28, 25 August 2008 (UTC) 991:Article should be rewritten 918:17:44, 31 August 2007 (UTC) 891:17:38, 31 August 2007 (UTC) 869:11:31, 31 August 2007 (UTC) 851:12:17, 30 August 2007 (UTC) 834:17:27, 29 August 2007 (UTC) 824:15:02, 29 August 2007 (UTC) 643:22:25, 1 October 2006 (UTC) 612:06:46, 25 August 2006 (UTC) 602:19:01, 22 August 2006 (UTC) 570:Thank you for your time. -- 490:Organization of the article 129:Template:WikiProject Norway 10: 1840: 1613:(last update: 5 June 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