2619:, how would you quantify "a lot of its time"? When I scan the article as a typical reader would (heavy attention to the lead, with much less attention to the following sections), I get the impression that maybe 10% of the content addresses non-frozen pre-packaged or ready-made meals. I would agree, generally, though -- if there are sentences or paragraphs that unduly focus on non-frozen meals (especially if unsourced), they could be trimmed or removed. There's no reason non-frozen products cannot be mentioned here, but they should not consume an undue portion of the overall content. -
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the oven) vs. the more modern "microwave meal" which grew in popularity alongside the new appliance since you cant use metal in them ("microwave meal" I think is a better title than both "frozen meal" or "frozen dinner" both because not all are frozen nor for dinner only). I suggest keeping the article here at the current title, and moving "microwave meal" content to a new draft. --
2477:" could easily be numerous other things, and since this article doesn't refer to dinners which are made using televisions (but rather just dinners which a marketer in the 1950s believed people may want to eat while watching television) it doesn't seem appropriate. Looking at others concerns I'm starting to believe that splitting most of this article's contents into separate "
1192:, though they are all now microwave dinners (early TV dinners went in the regular oven). But they are frozen. Although, "TV dinner" is still widely used. And the article specifically says that "TV dinner" has been genericized, so whatever else, it doesn't make it a Swanson term anymore. (like "Personal Computer" and the IBM PC, "aspirin" and Bayer Aspirin, etc)--
2074:. Additionally, 1954 may not be far enough back to get to the core, original motivations behind naming. I'm going to be trying to really investigate this "name origin" matter, as it does appear to have some possible embellishments added by people or entities who may have some motivations of self influencing them. -
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convenience. Still, the connection is there between watching TV and not having to cook while your shows are on. Does it make sense to cook the dinner while watching TV, then stop watching to eat it? Sounds to me like the point is you cook and then you eat, all while you're watching TV, hence the name.
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redirects here, despite having no connection with the
American 'frozen roast dinner on a tinfoil tray' concept. Finally the article was renamed to 'Frozen meal', which is actually worse than calling it 'TV dinner'. I guess how you react to the article does depend on your perspective though - maybe it
1518:. "TV dinner" used to be overwhelmingly the most common name in the US, even for generic meals. I'm not convinced that it is any longer, however. "Ready meal", on the other hand, seems to be completely unknown in the US (I don't know about elsewhere). so it's not an improvement. I'd suggest moving to
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Specifically the origin of the name. The claim that it's because of the shape may have a cite but it's obviously false: The original TV Dinner had three triangular sections, it did not have a "sidebar" arrangement like a television. This is even shown in the images used in the article. I can't access
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The problem is that the article was created to describe 'TV Dinners', a specifically 1950s
American concept and originally a proprietary product. TV dinners were frozen and subsequently cooked in an oven. It's since had lots of stuff about various sorts of pre-prepared food added and merged in, some
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Not so. The
Gastropub meal depicted in the article doesn't appear to be frozen, and there are many ready-made meals like that in supermarkets, at least here in the United States. I suspect these meals are more often microwaved than they are frozen, though certainly some might be eaten cold, such as
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More in the interest of defining the article's scope. A ready-made meal can take many forms, such as takeaway food from a supermarket. This article depicts and describes such meals as well. A "TV dinner" is almost always going to mean a frozen meal prepared in a microwave, and sounds a bit informal
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The
History section of this article has had a tag added to it that claims it may have original research. Unfortunately, since the section already has several sources cited (at least five), it is exceedingly difficult to ascertain which claims the tagger considers to be original research. There is
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Is this true? Were "TV dinners" ever packaged in pewter trays? Isn't pewter kind of heavy and stiff? I realize that pewter is not particularly expensive, but is it too expensive to be used as a disposable container? I imagine if pewter TV dinner trays were built like pewter beer mugs then people
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Just to throw some more chaos into the mix, the fact that there are so many alternate names listed and that no single title seems to be working out is an argument that we have two related but separate topics - the slightly more historical concept of a "TV dinner" (think aluminum pans and heated in
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The photo, however (despite the caption) is not of a 1950s era TV dinner but a 1960s era one -- with the added 4th compartment for a dessert, as stated elsewhere in the article (and as accords with my personal memory). I can't speak to the very first TV dinners, but in the years immediately before
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The problem is that nobody seems sure what the "most generic term possible" is. "TV dinner", aside from being a bizarre term in itself, would be very confusing to us Brits, who are generally not familiar with the term and would probably interpret it as meaning something totally different: a meal
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This gives the impression that all of these terms are synonymous, which they aren't, though of course there is significant overlap. The basic definition seems to be a prepackaged food product designed to constitute a full main course of a meal, which comes ready to be heated and then served.
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An ad introducing the turkey dinner in the Boston Globe, March 26, 1954, includes the line "Skip cooking entirely the night of your favorite TV shows." It goes on to also suggest serving them to your bridge club and eating one when you're home alone, so the main thrust is it's a labor-saving
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while ignoring the "recognisable" part. The current title is not particularly descriptive and could easily refer to numerous subjects (is it a dinner you order through a teleshopping programme? Is it a meal whose recipe was provided by a celebrity chef in a TV appearance? etc.) and a more
1405:, it does not cover such things as canned meals or MRE-style meals, or ration bar meals, so it is not about "prepackaged meals" it is about TV dinner style prepackaged meals; nor should it be expanded to cover all types of prepackaged meals, since TV dinners are notable in themselves. –
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prepared according to a recipe from a TV cookery programme. This may be what I thought for years the term meant. I'm not sure how readily understandable "ready meal" would be. Could "prepackaged meal" or "ready-made meal" be considered a sufficiently generic term? Wiktionary has "
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I suggest forking or splitting to the modern "skillet meal" which is referred to late in this article. Far from a "TV dinner", I think they should have their own "see also" article. Also, the last section in very UK-centric. Is their a template I can use to whine about that?
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While following a couple of the article's external links, I noticed that
Pinnacle Foods has dropped the Swanson name from its Hungry Man line of frozen dinners, per the expiration of the 10-year brand-licensing agreement with Campbell Soup (Swanson's parent company). See:
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Frankly, when I see editors whose tagging of articles constitute in the neighborhood of 50% of their total edits, I wonder if they're helping us or not. At the very least, when someone comes along and leaves a nebulous tag like that on an article, I think they should be
1401:– This was an undiscussed move ("TV dinner" move to "prepackaged meal"); so should be reverted as a speedy revert. An older discussion occurs on the talk page, where no other term was found to be acceptable for various reasons. And the topic of the article is not
1729:. This is needed to simply reverse the undiscussed move. Changes to the name can be considered afterwards. Other name changes being discussed at this time simply complicate which should be a simple correction. Oh, if renamed, block further name changes.
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of which can be cooked in a microwave, some in a conventional oven, some in both. Some are in foil containers, some in plastic, some in cardboard. Most are not frozen. As merges have taken place, misleading redirects have been created to the article -
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It is mentioned that the first non-foil ("microwave-safe") tray was introduced in 1986. When was the last foil tray sold? How long did it take for the entire industry to switch from trays designed for "regular ovens" to those designed for microwaves?
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Then why post this statement at all? Did someone just pull it out of the air? It certainly reads that way, along with all the other breezy "facts" sprinkled through the article. Without a source, these statements have no validity or value.
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because it clearly identifies the topic of the article. The claim that it can mean other things was wrong, which is why I brought this up. The argument could still be made that "Frozen dinner" or "Frozen meal" better identify the topic.
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Birdseye marketed the frozen dinner for one in the UK from 1960s. It was in a covered aluminium tray which you lifted one corner to allow the
Yorkshire pudding to rise. In the UK they were never referred to as TV dinner's though.
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The proper approach on
Knowledge is to research name origins and (especially) document what secondary sources describe to us about how names have come about. "Sounds to me" is not only not a sufficient approach, it's also
1683:- Although I speak American-English - between "ready meal", "TV dinner", and "frozen meal" - "ready meal" is the most descriptive and general. "Prepackaged meal" would be even better, if only it was in common usage.
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It is stated as a fact that the name TV dinner came "from the shape of the tray it was served on". I always thought that it was so-called because it was often eaten in front of the TV. Can either origin be ruled
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this should have gone through as a RMTR speedy revert, since the move away from "TV dinner" to "prepackaged meal" occurred without discussion, and a prior discussion already covered many alternate titles. --
1244:. I also find many more google results for "TV dinner" than "ready made meal" (which I think includes "ready-made meal") although honestly I don't have much experience with researching COMMONNAME questions.
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which spends a lot of its time describing products that are not frozen meals. The dreaded "all the world's
America" syndrome seems to have struck yet again, as often happens with WP food articles.
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project banner to food and drink related articles and content to help bring them to the attention of members. For a complete list of banners for WikiProject Food and drink and its child projects,
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Surely being ultra-processed isn't part of the definition? It seems to me it can still be a ready meal if it's only moderately processed, or even if it's composed entirely of fresh ingredients.
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for procedural reasons (to revert an undiscussed move) and on the merits ("TV dinner" is the most common of several title options; the current title is quite uncommon). —
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2489:" articles, while retaining the current title (possibly with a change of capitalisation) for an article specifically about the original brand would be most appropriate.
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1130:– This article doesn't specifically detail the dinner by Swanson, but rather discusses all ready-made meals, so I think we should move to the page to "Ready-made meal".
2261:. "TV dinner" appears to be a North American name only, and not used as frequently in the 21st century. "Frozen Dinner" is easily recognizable (unlike former title
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TV dinners are generic and international. Therefore in referring to dessert options purely
American desserts - "brownies" and "apple cobblers" should be avoided.
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If it were up to me, I would suggest maybe keeping the "Country fried chicken" image, removing the other two images, and perhaps including other images, like:
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While the majority are portioned for an individual, ready meals portioned for two people are also common. There are probably some portioned for three or four.
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sources, and indeed, it has none, then I can understand what's the problem. But tagging like this, without leaving an explanation, is just rude and ignorant.
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While the majority are designed to be microwaved, many can alternatively be heated in a conventional oven, and there are even some that are not microwavable.
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meal seems appropriate, though the lighting feels industrial/cafeteria quality, rather than what one might find in a home where these meals are eaten.
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Not all are frozen - they are probably just as likely to be chilled. All the major UK supermarkets have extensive ranges of chilled ready meals.
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Also, I don't think this talk page should have been archived. The archive is small, and contains threads I think are still currently pertinent.
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The result of the move request was: Overall, most editors oppose the previous name of "TV dinner", and the option that has the most support is
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Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a
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I've heard of the term "TV dinner" but am not familiar with it. It still isn't clear to me where the modern definition begins and ends.
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of the country fried chicken meal, which if repurposed as a "before" and "after" collage, would better serve the reader's understanding
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I see there in the history section, this line "the pewter tray with aluminum foil covering could be heated directly in the oven..."
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My memory says that the term "TV Dinner" was still being used in the 1970s, but I have nothing to back it up but gray hairs.
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https://web.archive.org/web/20141227044916/http://impactnews.com/austin-metro/san-marcos-buda-kyle/night-hawk-frozen-foods/
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I don't know if it's a good enough source but the fact the remains that the article as it stands states something which is
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on a plate seems darkly lit, and it's more of an entree, not a "meal" (if one thinks of meals as having multiple courses).
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Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
1522:, and refining the scope so that it only covers frozen dinners. Other types of convenience meal can be covered elsewhere.
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A participant in this discussion requested its reopening. I considered making a procedural MR, but have done so instead.
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the cite to see if it's being misread or misrepresented, but there's a contradictory statement from Gerald Thomas here:
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1496:. The 21st Century version might be mobile device meal. TV dinners would fit into a category such as ready meals.
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Given that the move happened a year ago, it's hard to blame
Anthony for not processing this as a reversion request.
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1261:. Why would anyone think that a TV Dinner is the main article for a ready made meal? The two are quite different.
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Details on this might be added to the History section of this article, and the appropriate Swanson links updated. —
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related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Good point. Pewter would also melt at about the temperature that TV dinners were heated. I've updated the page.
2745:" which isn't in common use here, but I don't know how widely used that term is in the Anglosphere as a whole. —
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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A number of oven-only ready meals are still sold in foil trays. I doubt they will go away any time soon. —
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Looking at the first edit it seems that this article was originally about the specific brand known as "
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or any of many other brands that started out as a brand and ended up as the defacto name of the item.
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The images currently adorning this article seem to be of lower quality than what we should aim for.
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after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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platter has a ripped tray, and there seems to be a stray slice of sausage resting with the fries.
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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Reading the TP archive, it seems obvious that the article merge in 2006 was a huge mistake. --
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was clearly about "TV dinners", and so the most consistent edit history should stay here. --
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refer to the concept by the most generic term possible, and have that term as the title
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I'd be happy to hear what others think before I go chopping away at the article. -
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the 4-compartment ones, they did have three roughly triangular compartments. --
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I was just thinking that myself. Furthermore, the lead sentence is a mess:
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might have saved them for other use. Unless you can make a pewter foil.
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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add
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that (appropriately) has a "citation needed" tag on it, but that's not
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We are now in a ridiculous position where we have an article called
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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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Delete unrelated trivia sections found in articles. Please review
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I think what's needed is to tidy up the article generally to:
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It shuold be reverted as it was if it was a undiscussed move
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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with a moritorium on moves for, say, a year rather than use
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I have just added archive links to one external link on
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Swanson appears to have exited the frozen dinner market
2395:. It's what the word means. It's in the dictionary.
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The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a
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http://en.wikipedia.org/Swanson#Other_frozen_dinners
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1536:I have never encountered "ready meal" in Canada --
1364:. No further edits should be made to this section.
1236:about supermarket "takeaway food" that you can eat
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1603:a change, any change but with weak preference for
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938:When did Swanson stop using the name "TV Dinner"?
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2265:and other suggestions from previous RMs). FWIW,
33:for general discussion of the article's subject.
661:. To improve this article, please refer to the
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1825:This message was posted before February 2018.
946:is a Swanson ad from May 1968 which uses it.
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2097:The following is a closed discussion of a
1350:The following is a closed discussion of a
984:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MzlkO8LIWrs
2801:to present a standard member of the class
1903:I have just modified 2 external links on
1421:This is a contested technical request (
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2852:Mid-importance Food and drink articles
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2729:describe primarily the overall concept
2639:reads better if you're from the US. --
1935:http://www.eatwell.gov.uk/healthydiet/
833:2601:140:8A00:2890:3D0E:DC30:530D:E06E
1369:The result of the move request was:
1101:The result of the move request was:
647:This article is within the scope of
317:Knowledge:WikiProject Food and drink
293:This article is within the scope of
213:
2857:WikiProject Food and drink articles
1583:gets "About 308,000 results" on Web
1577:gets "About 381,000 results" on Web
1571:gets "About 442,000 results" on Web
1188:instead, since not all of them are
556:Provide photographs and images for
407:Here are some tasks you can do for
320:Template:WikiProject Food and drink
236:It is of interest to the following
23:for discussing improvements to the
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2867:Low-importance television articles
1589:gets "About 12,200 results" on web
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2173:, which allows for international
1907:. Please take a moment to review
1779:. Please take a moment to review
876:-looking, it's lack of sourcing.
2813:featuring different frozen meals
2569:The discussion above is closed.
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671:Knowledge:WikiProject Television
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562:Consider joining this project's
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45:Click here to start a new topic.
2872:WikiProject Television articles
2847:B-Class Food and drink articles
1343:Requested move 22 November 2014
691:This article has been rated as
674:Template:WikiProject Television
584:from the project's tasks pages.
527:Participate in project-related
337:This article has been rated as
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2429:Merriam-Webster.com Dictionary
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547:{{WikiProject Food and drink}}
1:
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2700:portioned for an individual."
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2011:18:23, 10 December 2017 (UTC)
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1254:19:59, 22 December 2012 (UTC)
1221:22:52, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
1202:22:40, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
1177:19:22, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
1159:09:57, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
1140:09:08, 20 December 2012 (UTC)
1115:03:05, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
1070:00:08, 19 November 2012 (UTC)
811:19:14, 27 February 2011 (UTC)
311:and see a list of open tasks.
42:Put new text under old text.
2755:23:50, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
2391:. "TV dinner" is extremely
2090:Requested move 24 March 2021
2044:02:54, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
1891:18:49, 18 October 2015 (UTC)
1739:20:42, 3 December 2014 (UTC)
1722:05:25, 1 December 2014 (UTC)
1387:07:18, 4 December 2014 (UTC)
1314:01:05, 13 October 2013 (UTC)
1043:13:36, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
1007:03:10, 29 October 2016 (UTC)
977:Problem with History Section
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857:06:08, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
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1974:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1900:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1856:(last update: 5 June 2024)
1797:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}}
1772:Hello fellow Wikipedians,
1028:16:53, 10 April 2012 (UTC)
971:03:39, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
697:project's importance scale
411:WikiProject Food and drink
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343:project's importance scale
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2782:The country fried chicken
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2204:21:13, 3 April 2021 (UTC)
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2817:Historical advertisement
2776:The Currywurst and fries
2571:Please do not modify it.
2104:Please do not modify it.
2064:01:09, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
1754:Please do not modify it.
1357:Please do not modify it.
1285:Please do not modify it.
1089:Please do not modify it.
542:to learn how to do this.
2788:The carbonara container
2455:Oxford University Press
1896:External links modified
1768:External links modified
323:Food and drink articles
650:WikiProject Television
580:Note: These lists are
505:articles currently at
479:articles currently at
427:Status or below up to
226:This article is rated
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2451:UK English Dictionary
665:for the type of work.
564:Assessment task force
100:Neutral point of view
2698:ultra-processed food
1955:regular verification
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1783:. If necessary, add
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105:No original research
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1945:After February 2018
1827:After February 2018
1818:parameter below to
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659:join the discussion
655:television programs
423:articles currently
2825:Swiss Mister in NY
2621:Swiss Mister in NY
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19:This is the
2670:frozen meal
2584:Frozen meal
2529:Frozen meal
2480:Frozen meal
2444:"TV dinner"
2424:"TV dinner"
2389:Mild Oppose
2286:Frozen meal
2224:Frozen meal
2158:Frozen meal
2118:Frozen meal
2109:move review
1759:move review
1731:Vegaswikian
1569:"TV dinner"
1538:67.70.35.44
1448:67.70.35.44
1407:67.70.35.44
1362:move review
1290:move review
1263:Vegaswikian
1145:It is like
1094:move review
1075:Move (2012)
963:HuskyHuskie
911:HuskyHuskie
817:Pewter Tray
582:transcluded
566:. List any
551:select here
519:Burger King
288:Food portal
148:free images
31:not a forum
25:Frozen meal
2841:Categories
2686:ready meal
2636:Ready meal
2505:WP:PRECISE
2471:WP:PRECISE
2469:How is it
2411:References
2393:WP:PRECISE
2362:TV Dinners
2346:first edit
2267:Hungry-Man
2190:Relisting.
2167:WP:PRECISE
2006:Report bug
1692:rbitrarily
1680:ready meal
1663:Necrothesp
1605:Ready meal
1489:Ready meal
1211:salads. --
1167:anyway. --
1107:Malcolmxl5
782:Huw Powell
767:Huw Powell
668:Television
611:Television
2706:However:
2674:TV dinner
2555:Vaticidal
2510:Dan Bloch
2475:TV Dinner
2397:Dan Bloch
2350:Netoholic
2312:Netoholic
2219:TV dinner
2195:Vaticidal
1989:this tool
1982:this tool
1905:TV dinner
1877:Cheers. —
1871:this tool
1864:this tool
1777:TV dinner
1716:AjaxSmack
1559:TV dinner
1423:permalink
1398:TV dinner
1375:TV dinner
1122:TV dinner
1103:not moved
999:Gambaguru
849:Dan Bloch
536:WP:Trivia
463:Soy sauce
431:status:
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
2799:Top view
2527:Move to
2284:Move to
2256:Move to
2171:WP:NDESC
1995:Cheers.—
1787:cbignore
1678:Support
1648:contribs
1636:unsigned
1611:Gregkaye
1498:Gregkaye
1466:Dekimasu
1379:Dekimasu
1147:band-aid
899:required
829:unsigned
724:Archives
545:Add the
513:status:
487:status:
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
2560:prophet
2483:" and "
2200:prophet
1909:my edit
1887::Online
1816:checked
1781:my edit
1727:Support
1709:Support
1659:Comment
1629:Support
1601:Support
1555:Comment
1485:Suggest
1443:Comment
1164:Support
695:on the
368:history
341:on the
228:B-class
154:WP refs
142:scholar
2692:, and
2688:(UK),
2578:Frozen
2536:Ajshul
2457:. n.d.
2449:Lexico
2294:BD2412
2144:buidhe
1795:nobots
1593:ngrams
1516:Oppose
1259:Oppose
1234:really
1230:Oppose
1182:Oppose
1151:Apteva
948:Relgif
471:Yogurt
234:scale.
126:Google
2214:Note:
2122:WP:MR
1494:WP:AT
944:here
515:Apple
497:Sugar
467:Sushi
451:Drink
447:Curry
443:Bread
378:purge
373:watch
305:drink
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
2829:talk
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1327:. -
1325:this
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1299:Name
1267:talk
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538:and
523:Fish
489:Beer
455:Food
439:Beef
388:here
363:edit
303:and
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162:FENS
136:news
73:and
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