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needs". Jogini is a regional name for the term
Devdasi and it is already mentioned in the current wiki article - "Devadasis were also known as jogini, venkatasani, nailis, muralis, and theradiyan". If the concern is that we don't have non-news sources then please raise it in Talk before removing the otherwise accurate statement outright. Also, please help fill in gaps by adding sources if you have any.
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1434:âofferingâ girl children to Goddess Mathamma thrives in the districts of Chittoor in Andhra Pradesh and Tiruvallur in Tamil Nadu, forcing the National Human Rights Commission to seek report from the two States. As part of the ritual, girls are dressed as brides and once the ceremony was over, their dresses are removed by five boys, virtually leaving them naked.".
1513:. You need to stop citing sources that depend on the accounts of activists. You still haven't provided any justification that how this 'crime' is any different than any other 'crime' which occurs even after being banned. You should also tell that how this profession is different than any other profession where 'sexual exploitation' does not happen. Again, see
1341:. The argument says that Devadasi system is not confined to a particular caste. Unlike Jogins, the Devadasis are not treated as untouchables. The doors of every temple ( both great and little tradition ) are open to them. They have, in fact, been honoured in the public in the past, and even offered seats alongside the figures of royalty."
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I have added 2 more citations for the claim - one from a scholarly source and one from another mainstream publication. Both use the term "Devadasi" for the specific instances and statistics of sexual exploitation they are talking about. This is just to reiterate that the statement does not meet the criteria for
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Should the article include a statement on the fact that there are several reports on the sexual exploitation of
Devadasis and them being forced into prostitution in the modern era. Previously included statement on this that has been reverted - "But there are reports they are sexually exploited by the
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Firstly - there was no broad generalisation in the statement itself - it talked about reports of
Devadasis being sexually exploited. Secondly The Print report also has the following sentence in it - "In the early days, the primary duty of a jogini â also known as âdevadasiâ and considered property of
1384:
Again, current information on the page does not seem to distinguish between the two systems. If you have good sources (like you have shared) then please add those clarifications. In the mainstream however for purposes of the claim both the systems are same and that is reflected in the language used.
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apply here given that the claims are present in multiple mainstream sources? Of course if you want more sources can be added to support the points. Moreover the claim never was that they have always been exploited like this so I don't see how the history of the practice applies to it - the statement
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I agree with
Srijanx22. Unless you have sources that confirm that there are cases where the girls are working as 'devadasi' and also indulging in prostitution, then only you should come up with them. Instead of relying on sources which say "daughters into prostitution, insisting that it is part of
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First report quotes "The devdasi system is a form of open prostitution" and second report "âjoginiâ, or the victim of an illegal practice that pushes women into sex slavery under the veil of faith" and "Men of all age groups call us names and say our whole life is about taking care of their sexual
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I did exactly that. All the reports (4 of them) linked are explicit in the statement that these girls working as
Devadasis were also pushed into prostitution and were exploited sexually. The Hindu one also mentions how sexual exploitation is part of the initiation ritual itself - "The practice of
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What you claim to be a more reliable source (you only provided one relevant to current discussion) is only stating that the generic term
Devadasi should not be confused with the term Jogini because Joginis refers to a particular group that is confined to a particular caste. That however does not
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Even the research paper cited does the same "The paper focuses on female devadasi temple prostitutes (Child sex workers but popularly understood as temple prostitutes in the name of dedication to deity) children in South India and the provision of support to integrate devadasi girls into the
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And that is completely false, because "during the colonial period, the
British outlawed their activities. They got beaten up, arrested, locked up and brutalisation continued. This dried up their traditional source of livelihood, and women had no choice. They ended up in prostitution"., per
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the community`s tradition", and "people dedicate their daughters to the system in the name of appeasing the gods". This is far from a confirmed case of "devadasi" but prostitution where someone is somehow trying to relate to
Devadasi without having any clear affiliation.
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Human Rights Watch also uses the same terminology. If you are suggesting that the systems are indeed unlinked (enough to make the statement in question inaccurate) - then suggest a fix. Please consider all the counter evidence I have presented - all from the mainstream.
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is clearly about "modern times". If you think the positioning of the statement is incorrect then please suggest a more appropriate location. The reason for putting it at the end of the lead is because it is the most "recent" discussion/reporting around the subject.
1592:- the statement was an apt summary of what all the cited sources were claiming and all the cited sources were from mainstream media + 1 research paper. Since we are basically at an impasse regarding this I am raising an RfC for uninvolved editors to weigh in.
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The article from The Print is also explicit in the claim that they are sexually exploited - "According to DâSouza, due to the constant sexual abuse, joginis are three times more prone to getting HIV than other women, and 10 times more likely to die from
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I saw that the information was removed with the claim that it was "irrelevant for lead, and cherrypicking". Please discuss this first before removing it - the information was sourced from news reports and had been modified by multiple editors already.
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counter the 4 separate articles cited in the claim originally as they are each talking about different groups of
Devadasis in different states. The research paper itself is talking about all Devadasis. You have not specified how the edit is violating
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1268:. You have still not addressed how your sources support that "there are reports they are sexually exploited by the community in modern times". I am not going to 'fill in gaps' for your problematic edits. Are you claiming that it is
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The Print as already mentioned is talking about Jogini, not
Devadasi. The examples you cited are from South India and they do not represent thousands of Devadasi, thus your broad generalization of devadasis is misleading.
1441:
The article from Zee News does the same "She and her three sisters, who were dedicated to the temple, are all now in trade. She, presently, lives with her three sons and a daughter and practices prostitution."
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You haven't answered my 2 questions. When more reliable sources disagree with your sub-standard sources then you should give up adding your sources and accept what reliable sources say. Your edits violate
1072:, a collaborative effort to improve Knowledge's coverage of Women in religion. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
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It does, because your claims are false and don't match the scholarly view on the subject. Your confusion of "Jogini" with "Devadasi" also tells that you are not aware of the meaning of these terms. Read
1675:: Statement proposed to be reverted back to - "There are reports they are sexually exploited by the community in modern times." This statement was previously included on the page. Check version here -
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and that there should be no self-promotion, advertising, etc. The info added met all these rules. The language used was a summary of the articles cited and was not an attempt for advocacy or anything.
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families often turn their daughters over to the ritual without invoking its name. In 2019, she told ThePrint, the organisation rescued a few pregnant teenagers who were âsilent victims of this practice
1389:. Also the statement added and the sources referenced are not original research - I am merely adding to Knowledge what is already out there in present discourse (including news and academia).
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This article is missing info about the prostitution and sexual exploitation many of these girls and women face. You can't just omit this info from wikipedia and hope the problem goes away.
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is from 2001 and does not mention any "exploitation". 2nd one talks about "Jogini" in Telangana (only) and mentions "Devadasi" only once, and also mentions that "
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During British rule in the Indian subcontinent, kings who were the patrons of temples lost their power, thus also the temple artist communities.
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but has reached an impasse with me and the other editor disagreeing on whether the statement was supported by the citations provided for it.
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and have nothing much to do with the subject directly. Devadasis are known mainly for dance, and economic marginalization after British rule.
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During British rule in the Indian subcontinent kings who were the patrons of temples, thus the temple artist communities lost their power.
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The proposed line is grammatically poor. I suggest you to read both Davesh Soneji and Lucinda Ramberg, before proceeding.
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important point to be noted is that there is much difference between Devadasi system and Jogin / Basavi system
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This is far from claim that "there are reports they are sexually exploited by the community in modern times".
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This sentence is broken imho, probably a part is missing. What happened to the kings? Should that read:
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to state that a practice has been banned but it continues? This is the same as just any other crime.
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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between
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1537:- that's not what that rule states from my understanding. The only requirement is that edits be
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RfC: Should article reference reports of sexual exploitation and prostitution in the modern day
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Yeah - those 2 books. (I might edit this mess of an article, if I get some time.)
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Thank you for the suggestion. I'll take a look at the books
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community in modern times." A discussion was started at
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community and improve their psychosocial situation."
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1686:â Preceding
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19:This is the
1826:12 May 2023
1260:. Now see
883:Salon dance
871:Latin swing
842:Chorus line
828:Flash dance
756:To cleanup:
743:Scotch reel
739:Sasha Waltz
148:free images
31:not a forum
1863:Categories
1846:Swayam6153
1834:Swayam6153
1715:Discussion
1626:References
1337:"Here one
1258:Al-Jazeera
848:To create:
813:To destub:
776:To unbias:
731:Meg Stuart
692:To expand:
493:March 2012
1725:Kautilya3
1571:Srijanx22
1519:Srijanx22
1476:Srijanx22
1352:Srijanx22
1298:How does
1274:Srijanx22
1216:Srijanx22
807:/substubs
795:â as per
786:To merge:
747:Set dance
88:if needed
71:Be polite
21:talk page
1710:Comments
1700:contribs
1688:unsigned
1590:WP:UNDUE
1588:or even
1562:WP:UNDUE
1515:WP:UNDUE
1464:contribs
1452:unsigned
332:Hinduism
323:Hinduism
279:Hinduism
186:Archives
56:get help
29:This is
27:article.
25:Devadasi
1586:WP:NPOV
1558:WP:NPOV
1539:WP:NPOV
1102:on the
1021:on the
767:Dandiya
576:on the
473:on the
359:on the
250:B-class
207:90Â days
154:WPÂ refs
142:scholar
1673:Update
1421:Wareon
1270:WP:DUE
1266:WP:IRS
703:Bolero
671:WP:FAC
256:scale.
126:Google
1334:this:
1205:First
639:Dance
626:Dance
601:Dance
446:India
435:India
384:India
191:Index
169:JSTOR
130:books
84:Seek
1850:talk
1824:and
1797:talk
1783:talk
1773:and
1761:talk
1745:talk
1729:talk
1696:talk
1664:talk
1598:talk
1575:talk
1560:and
1547:talk
1523:talk
1509:See
1495:talk
1480:talk
1460:talk
1438:it."
1425:talk
1410:talk
1395:talk
1356:talk
1309:talk
1278:talk
1264:and
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1220:talk
1191:talk
1170:talk
1134:talk
904:more
833:more
804:see
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628:and
568:High
351:High
162:FENS
136:news
73:and
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465:Mid
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