1185:"With you, sons of Rus, I wish either to lay down my head or drink a helmetful of the Don". There was a dream of Slav Kingdom from Tmutarakan to Volga and then "hearkens the land unknown...the Volga, and the Seaboard, and the Sula country and Herson, and you, idol of Tmutarakan. Meanwhile by untrodden roads the Kumans make for the Great Don. Prince Igor is on Russian soil. Maidens sing on the Danube, their voices weave across the sea to Kiyev asking come, Prince Igor, come". Also this; Prince Yeroslav of Galich who "braced the Hungarian mountains, and closed the gates of Danube". Since then this expansionist dream has continued until this day. From the Gates of Danube to the Bottom of Adriatic Sea.
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634:. The only jingoists here are those who oppose having the Hungarian version of the name for the Transylvanian cities; and we do have the Hungarian versions for the name of those cities. Why not this one? And why accuse me of jingoism and for being disruptive? I want you to either justify your accusations or retract them. I also think you should first discuss before reverting. In my opinion, you are the one who is being disruptive—as you have been for most of the time. --
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sure about the Latin, Greek, and
Italian names. The Gagauz name seems to be the same as the Bulgarian and Turkish name, but I believe that those countries or states, that either had a significant presence in the city, or held it for a few centuries, should have their name included in the article; but if you don't want that, then it's no biggie.--
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If you can document them, the
Cyrillic could be used in a separate section on names. I'm not sure that the other ones are relevant enough to be listed (the Ottoman Turkish forms tend to vary a lot for the same word, and are generally inaccurate; Greek versions may not be relevant for most cities, as,
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I don't know who writes this articles but they're full of lies. First of all romanians did not have ghospodars, second of all, the town belonged to the romanians in the 1856-1877 period and most of the population was of romanian origin, third of all there is no moldavian nationality, moldavian is the
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on one hand, since the name was indeed used, and does not give the questionable to some
Moldovan language an undue weight, since it is not at the article's top. If we just say that this is how the city name was written, this is useful and encyclopedic info which supports neither side in an unrelated
1047:
It has nothing to do with censorship. It's about irrelevancy. It's not about not adding the name, it's about the alphabet used, which in this case, is an obsolete alphabet; and no, it was not used for a long period of time. You are more than welcome to add the
Moldovan name by its official alphabet,
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You are wrong—it does hurt, but that's irrelevant. What is relevant is that it is now obsolete and should not be used because it serves no purpose. It serves no historical purpose, as you say and could lead to having all versions of several languages and alphabets included in similar articles, which
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You can do that if you wish, but according to the Wiki policy, at least 10-percent of the names included should be known in
English references. Akkerman And Cetatea Alba are probably better known in English than the Ukrainian name; and yes, I think they would pass the 10-percent mark, but I'm not so
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Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the
English language or is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted and should be listed in alphabetic order of their respective languages, i.e., (Armenian: name1, Belarusian: name2,
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called "Cetatea Albă", but "Bolgrad", and that, like "Alba Iulia" for "Bălgrad", the name was coined by purists in more modern times). Secondly, aside from you toying with wiki conventions (I agree with
Anonimu there), your "it's still the Ro name and the Moldavian rule must be considered" is a non
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I see what you're saying, but the second part says "or is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place." According to this, wouldn't Polish, Greek, Gagauz, Hebrew, etc. apply as well? (for being at the top) Actually, Yiddish would be more appropriate than Hebrew. Anyways,
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Thanks, Irpen, but I have to revert it back because the text is misleading. Some readers may think the
Cyrillic alphabet is the official alphabet of Moldova--which it isn't. If you guys want to keep that obsolete version, then you should make it clear that it no longer is in use. I don't know what
816:
We also wrote in
Romanian, pretty early. Stefan is also said to have written in Romanian; and even tho the official name in the Slavonic documents was Belgrod, as I have already mentioned, the name used by people was probably C. Alba. But even if it wasn't, it's still the Ro name and the Moldavian
779:
If there are many to choose from, then choose the more significant one's, as in this case, The
Turkish and Romanian variant. Many of the other variants are either archaic; of a people who were just a minority and never held the city; or of a people who held the city for a short period of time. The
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from the 1930s to 1989, right? Since we have the Hungarian name, I figure it wouldn't hurt to use an alphabet that was official for such a long period of time. Even though Cyrillic for Romanian isn't used much today, there's nothing wrong with keeping it for historical interest. This is the same
704:
Alternatively, all alternative names can be moved to and explained in a "Names" or "Etymology" section immediately following the lead, or a special paragraph of the lead; we recommend that this be done if there are at least three alternate names, or there is something notable about the names
1033:. Even though it's obsolete, the whole "Names" section is mostly historical names, not ones that are currently used today. How does it serve no purpose? We already have the Latin name: "From 1918 to 1940 and 1941 to 1944, the city was known by its Romanian name of Cetatea Albă."
712:)". Once such a section or paragraph is created, the alternative English or foreign names should not be moved back to the first line. As an exception, a local official name different from a widely accepted English name should be retained in the lead "(Foreign language:
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I don't buy that. Many such names were written in Cyrillic, including our own town names. Should we include the Cyrillic version of those names as well? How about the Turkish version, or the Greek version? We may even find an Arabic version for some of the cities.
621:
What's so hard to understand? What jingoism? I added the Romanian and the Turkish name for the city. What is disruptive about that? Any article about a city should have other versions of the name mentioned, as long as they represent some kind of significance. See
789:
Moldavia + Romania held the city for about 110 years, less than Russia + Soviet Union (about 150 years). But anyway, the wikipedia convention mentioned above clearly states that if we have a "name" section, we shouldn't put alternative names in the
1153:
Where is it mentioned that the town ever was under Kievan Rus' rule ??? citation needed. Kievan Rus' never reached Black Sea, although some very disputable sources say so ! Please check out seriously and remove the wrong information
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can only contribute to an overdosed article. Also, why include the Moldovan Cyrillic version and not the Latin version? In fact, yes, I think we should have a Moldovan version: the version which is official and not obsolete. --
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amen. the only reason that there exists a Moldavian language and nationality is because of the thieving Russian imperialists that tried and succeeded, to this day, to expand their sphere of influence upon that
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I'm guessing, they are generally modern transliterations from the Romanian, and not alternative place names). Outside "Ottoman Arabic writing", your reference to "Arabic version" is just a lame joke.
1078:
Guys, please calm down. First, no one is pushing the Cyrillic Moldovan name to the article's top. Since we have a names section, all names are there and it's fine. Listing it in the names section is
901:
Why do you revert to the version that mentions the version of the name in Moldovan written in Cyrillic? The official Moldovan alphabet is written in the Latin alphabet, not the Cyrillic alphabet.
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So, if you want to move the Romanian and Ottoman Turkish names up to the top, also move the Greek, Latin, Italian, Russian, Bulgarian, Gagauz, Polish, Hungarian, Hebrew, and German names as well.
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Czech: name3). As an exception to alphabetical order, the local official name should be listed before other alternate names if it differs from a widely accepted English name
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Ottomans and Moldavia—and later Romania, held the city for centuries; altough officially, in Medieval Moldavia, the city was named Belgrod, or something to that effect. --
848:, let alone that he wrote in a language that is known not to be used in writing by anybody who could write back then? Really, Anittas, come up with something tenable.
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non-official, historical names to the "Name" section. This is only because there are so many of them (that would fall into the categories mentioned in the guideline).
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I don't follow your logic. First of all, I do not know how you deduced what the name for the city was in unrecorded Romanian (it is more likely than not that it was
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my point is that the intro would be too crowded and its readability would be impaired if we did this. For this article, I think it's best to move
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the purpose of that would be, but that's your choice. It would also be good to include the name written in the Latin alphabet. --
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Archaic written versions have no place there as long as a modern version of that same language is presented in the article. --
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In this case, the redundant list of the names in the article's first line should be replaced with: "(known also by several
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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Why is it irrelevant? No one's denying that it's obsolete today, but it was still in use from 1940 to 1944.
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And precisely where in the Moldavian Slavonic chronicles does Anittas see the words "Cetatea" and "Albă"?
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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https://web.archive.org/web/20121010205321/http://stat6.stat.lviv.ua/PXWEB2007/ukr/publ/2011/chnas.zip
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It's not jingoism, but makes the article redundant and it violates the naming coventions as set in
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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in use. Better ask Dpotop why he reverts to the POV-push that was shown to be non-compliant.
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But it does not say the town did not belong to Russia during that period, does it?
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There is a mistake here. The town was Russian all the way from 1812 up to 1918.
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Oh, btw: the claim that Stephen wrote in Romanian is ridiculous. And just
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Here it is; the ambitions of the Russians in the Song of Igor´s Campaign.
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reason why we have the Ottoman Turkish names (in the Arabic script) at
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says such absurdities? Who even begins to theorize that Stephen ever
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the
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http://stat6.stat.lviv.ua/PXWEB2007/ukr/publ/2011/chnas.zip
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Dude, come on! Wallchia held it only for 10 years? --
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Moldavia+Wallachia+Romania then. How many years? --
1128:::Pardon my ignorance but the names Akkerman and
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397:for general discussion of the article's subject.
1264:This message was posted before February 2018.
1091:Anittas, I am truly glad to see you back :) --
983:Anittas: The Moldovan alphabet used Cyrillic
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1214:I have just modified one external link on
1132:seem German to me ...not Turkish... --
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670:I'm not so sure. See what it says:
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1048:which strangely was left out. --
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1134:Hrödberäht
985:officially
831:sequitur.
714:Local name
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644:Right...
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452:if needed
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169:Byzantine
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1243:checked
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