1011:"The Vietnamese people (Vietnamese: người Việt, lit. 'Viet people') or Kinh people (Vietnamese: người Kinh) are a Southeast Asian ethnic group originally native to modern-day Northern Vietnam and Southern China. The native language is Vietnamese, the most widely spoken Austroasiatic language. Its vocabulary was influenced by Chinese early on. During the French colonial era, French was an official language in Vietnam. Afterwards, the Vietnamese language codified in the Latin alphabet emerged. Vietnamese Kinh people account for just over 85.32% of the population of Vietnam in the 2019 census, and are officially known as Kinh people (người Kinh) to distinguish them from the other minority groups residing in the country such as the Hmong, Cham or Muong. The Vietnamese are one of the four main groups of Vietic speakers in Vietnam, the others being the Muong, Thổ and Chứt people. They are related to the Gin or the Jing people, a Vietnamese ethnic group in China."
749:, I agree that the majority of the "Vietnamese people" living in other countries are most likely Kinh people. The problem is with the terminology of this page itself, the "Chinese people" and "Han Chinese" people is actually superbly illustrated with how it should be done. The problem here remains that people assume that whenever someone talks about "Vietnamese people" in another source they think that it means the same as "ethnic Vietnamese people", but because Vietnamese is a nationality a lot of sources will not make an ethnic distinction, kind of how "English" and "British" people aren't the same but everyone in the latter is included in the former.
1017:"The Vietnamese people (Vietnamese: người Việt, lit. 'Viet people') or Kinh people (Vietnamese: người Kinh) are a Southeast Asian ethnic group originally native to modern-day North Vietnam and South China. The native language is Vietnamese. Vietnamese Kinh people account for just over 85.32% of the population of Vietnam in the 2019 census, and are officially known as Kinh people (người Kinh) to distinguish them from the other highly related minority groups residing in the country such as the Muong or Chams. The Vietnamese are one of the four main groups of Vietic speakers in Vietnam, the others being the Muong, Thổ and Chứt people."
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674:" by comparison). I think that some of the people adding these numbers just see "Vietnamese people" in the title and assume that the "Vietnamese people" talked about in these sources are the same as the concept of "Vietnamese people" (known in Vietnam as "Kinh people" / "City people") where the name might confuse the editors because the same name is used for two completely different concepts (one being legal the other anthropological). --
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nationality and not ethnicity. Perhaps we should debate including some of these countries until better sources can be found. It's like saying that any person from the United
Kingdom (including Scottish or Irish) turns into "English" when immigrating to another country. Some of these sources deserve more scrutiny. Or anyone from the United States can become "ethnic Americans" using this source too. --
702:" while using terms like "ethnic Singaporeans", "Malaysians", and "Taiwanese" all of which are references to multi-ethnic regions. I don't see a strong case that most of these sources even specifically talk about Kinh people as opposed to Vietnamese nationals and their descendants unless we have to assume that every reference to "Vietnamese people" should always refer to Kinh people. --
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might be talking about a different subject altogether. Like how when someone mentions "Lang Lang is
Chinese" they mean his nationality as he is an ethnic Manchu, but most foreigners won't make that distinction. Okinawans are also considered "Japanese people" but not "Yamato people", no idea why this solution wasn't implemented with this page.
305:", using this criterion any Hmong or Cham would become Kinh if they immigrate to the Netherlands. I don't think that the list should include the Netherlands unless a more reliable source for ethnic Kinh (and not civic Vietnamese, or however else to call everyone from Vietnam including non-Kinh peoples). --
758:
Splitting this article up in a "Vietnamese people" akin to "Chinese people" and "Kinh people" / "Kinh
Vietnamese" like "Han Chinese" would solve this confusion. I've seen many rename requests of this page fail because "Vietnamese people" as a term has more results, but that fails to mention that they
882:
Again, all the examples you brought up generally explain nuance but this article acts as if "Kinh" and "Vietnamese" are always synonymous. This is also why that
Infobox makes no sense as any person living with a Vietnamese passport in the Netherlands is regarded as "Vietnamese", this includes ethnic
860:
Filipinos (Tagalog: Mga
Pilipino) are the people who are citizens of or native to the Philippines. The majority of Filipinos today come from various Austronesian ethnolinguistic groups, all typically speaking either Filipino, English, and/or other Philippine languages. Currently, there are more than
932:
This article also randomly switches between
Vietnam-wide demographics and Kinh-specific topics. For example the top two (2) sections are specifically only about the Kinh but the "Religion" section is about the general religious demographics of Vietnam and the "Diaspora" section just uses the number
328:
and it says nothing about so-called "ethnic
Vietnamese" (Kinh people), it only refers to people in Japan with the Vietnamese nationality, like I had stated above this would somehow magically turn ethnic minorities and turn them into "Kinh" if they immigrate to these specific countries that register
302:
The migration background of a person with a first-generation migration background is defined as his or her country of birth. The migration background of a person with a second-generation migration background is defined as his or her mother's country of birth, unless the mother's country of birth is
180:
Someone had suggested that the name "kinh" (Jin, Gin, King) appeared during the Sui-Tang dynasty, associated with the former name "Jincheng" of Hanoi. But there is also argument that the word Kinh had originated during the
Western Jin dynasty (265-316 CE) to describe the Han and sinicized settlers
726:
to indicate an approximate value. Furthermore, you should be aware that many of these numbers do not necessarily reflect the scale of migration (and also are not always up to date). I mean, they tend not to take illegal immigrants into account, right? My solution is to add approximate sign or use
688:
And I just identified more bad sources for these numbers this way, the French source talks about the "Vietnamese community in France" particularly relating to
Vietnamese New Year (which isn't even an ethnic exclusive event within Vietnam but it doesn't state directly that it refers to Vietnamese
98:
The
Knowledge article states that North Vietnamese and North Thailand share similarities. However, the research article does not state this, only suggesting that KHV (which stands for Kinh Vietnamese, the major ethnicity in Vietnam) and TAI as Thai people representing Thailand as sharing similar
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doesn't register foreign ethnicities, even regarding foreigners naturalised into PRC citizenship citizens of Mainland China who are of foreign origin are classified using yet another separate label: "foreigners naturalised into the Chinese citizenship" (外国人入中国籍). However, if a newly naturalised
724:
It's true that those numbers do not specifically refer to ethnic Vietnamese (Kinh people). However, I believe the majority of Vietnamese citizens immigrating to Japan, South Korea or some Nordic countries - you name it, is ethnic Vietnamese. Of course, it is always possible to add ~ or :
899:
that whenever an English-language source mentions "Vietnamese people" that they mean Kinh people, but as there simply isn't written as much online about the ethnic minorities of Vietnam as there is about Vietnam in general this makes sense, likewise people use the term
299:
The CBS source talks about Vietnamese people to mean anyone who comes from the country of Vietnam, not Kinh people. Dutch statistics are based on nationality (or national origin) not ethnicity. A Hoa or Muong would also be counted as "Vietnamese". As it states
877:
Article 66 of the Turkish Constitution defines a "Turk" as: "Anyone who is bound to the Turkish state through the bond of citizenship." While the legal use of the term "Turkish" as it pertains to a citizen of Turkey is different from the term's ethnic
854:" Which also applies here but is a level of nuance not mentioned in this article. Likewise your other examples conflate nationality with ethnicity again (although people can be members of multiple ethnic groups in different contexts), for example
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from Vietnamese and Laotian and specifically lists "Cambodian (Khmer)" as an ethnicity indicating that the Canadians do differentiate better, but doesn't seem to mention any other "sub-national" ethnic minority other than the
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143:
This article met some problems with the definition of the word "Kinh" in Kinh people. It said that the word originated from Kinh Dương Vương, the first ruler of the Vietnamese people but in fact, it means "capital city"
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nationals so it is not a bad source like the others but bot good either), the German source specifically talks about "migration background" utilising the same language and classifications as the Dutch source. The
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genomic history. The north Vietnam and north Thailand are not the only ones who share similarities - it's Vietnamese people and Thai people sharing similarities in general. 'North' should be removed.
852:
Depending on the context, the term ethnic Japanese (日本民族, Nihon minzoku) may be limited or not to mainland Japanese people, specifically the Yamato (as opposed to Ryukyuan and Ainu people).
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citizen already belongs to a recognised existing group among the 56 ethnic groups, then he or she is classified into that ethnic group rather than the special label. (copied from "
768:
I do disagree to changing the numbers to approximations, as the sources are fine for "Vietnamese people" as a broad term, but not the ethnic group this article talks about. --
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300,000, Russia 150,000, Laos 122,000, Thailand 100,000, Czech Republic 90,000, Malaysia 80,000, Poland 60,000-80,000, United Kingdom 50,000-100,000) --
666:". I can't find any reference in the source that the Vietnamese living in China are specifically "ethnic Vietnamese" or "Vietnamese people" (more like "
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662:"), which would mean that a Vietnamese national would not have their ethnicity recorded unless they would naturalise and classify themselves as "
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846:, I didn't see this argument until now but I think that your argument misses the point, "Ethnic Japanese" redirects to a number of pages and
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it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a
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821:). It's still possible to start an entirely new one, but I suggest adding a notice or create a disambiguation page like
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source likewise also talks about "country of origin" of migrants. The Canadian source is stronger as it differentiates
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The folk etymology has now been removed by User:DHN. If you have a source for another etymology you can point to it. –
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:
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but these are distinct articles for a reason, but one can easily claim "WP:COMMONNAME" for this case as well.
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The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
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in Vietnamese) and the term Kinh people means "people live in the capital city. Please update the article.
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185 ethnolinguistic groups in the Philippines; each with its own language, identity, culture, and history.
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round numbers. You can see most numbers here are approximation already (France ~400,000, Australia : -->
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the Netherlands. In that case, the migration background is defined as the father's country of birth.
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recorded which makes no distinction between ethnic groups (only a handful of countries recognise
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I don't think we need to create a new article. In many cases, there is only one article (such as
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You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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895:" argument doesn't work this way either as most proponents I've seen using it
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template. It does not appear there is consensus for this addition.
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that there's no distinction between "Vietnamese" and "Kinh" in
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I want to add an audio file on how người Kinh is pronounced.
863:" doesn't even call it an ethnic group, rather articles like
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Should vietnamese people count as SE Asians or East Asians?
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441:Semi-protected edit request on 4 September 2021
871:, Etc. talk about the specific ethnic groups.
595:Participate in the deletion discussion at the
344:Semi-protected edit request on 20 August 2021
206:Semi-protected edit request on 1 October 2020
94:Possible Vietnamese-Thailand similarity error
968:Semi-protected edit request on 28 April 2022
103:Semi-protected edit request on 27 March 2020
618:Can you change the Chinese translation of
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246:Change 82,085,826 85.32% To 96,208,984
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614:Usage of Chinese instead of Vietnamese
192:2601:204:e37f:fff1:1096:87f8:f81b:7101
44:Do not edit the contents of this page.
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561:Đám cưới săm trổ, cực kỳ hổ báo.jpg
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89:15:54, 25 November 2019 (UTC)
644:19:12, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
609:20:53, 20 October 2021 (UTC)
275:that supports this change. –
7:
1002:to reactivate your request.
990:has been answered. Set the
963:10:55, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
920:10:49, 3 January 2023 (UTC)
823:Bulgarians (disambiguation)
492:Pronunciation of người Kinh
475:to reactivate your request.
463:has been answered. Set the
435:23:53, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
408:23:04, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
394:23:04, 20 August 2021 (UTC)
378:to reactivate your request.
366:has been answered. Set the
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256:19:53, 1 October 2020 (UTC)
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228:has been answered. Set the
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1027:13:58, 28 April 2022 (UTC)
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660:Ethnic minorities in China
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320:Japanese source is bad too
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200:20:53, 23 April 2020 (UTC)
158:15:47, 27 March 2020 (UTC)
181:around Jincheng (Hanoi).
883:Taï immigrants from the
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18:Talk:Vietnamese people
1042:ScottishFinnishRadish
538:ScottishFinnishRadish
491:
427:ScottishFinnishRadish
176:About the noun "Kinh"
42:of past discussions.
522:for this alteration
935:Overseas Vietnamese
891:living there. The "
850:specifically says "
532:edit semi-protected
518:please establish a
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271:. Please provide a
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590:Quanlai.jpg
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36:This is an
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889:Hoa people
878:definition
815:Hungarians
811:Ukrainians
691:Australian
632:người Kinh
630:(𠊛越) and
628:người Việt
528:using the
465:|answered=
368:|answered=
324:I checked
230:|answered=
127:|answered=
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799:Filipinos
624:Kinh nhân
622:(越人) and
620:Việt nhân
520:consensus
419:Not done:
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386:Septem9th
66:Archive 2
60:Archive 1
875:state: "
869:Visayans
844:Ltn12345
831:Ltn12345
745:Ltn12345
730:Ltn12345
670:" than "
634:(𠊛京)?--
398:Sjsisis
384:Xin key
268:Not done
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166:Thjarkur
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791:Koreans
497:Lachy70
146:Kinh Đô
39:archive
897:assume
525:before
285:videos
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170:(talk)
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982:This
469:|ans=
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574:)
544:)
534:}}
530:{{
503:)
473:no
433:)
406:)
392:)
376:no
287:)
283:•
254:)
238:no
198:)
156:)
135:no
87:)
1044:(
1021:(
957:(
914:(
858:"
833:(
787::
783:@
772:(
747::
743:@
732:(
722::
718:@
706:(
698:"
678:(
638:(
603:(
570:(
540:(
499:(
429:(
402:(
388:(
333:(
309:(
300:"
279:(
250:(
194:(
152:(
144:(
83:(
50:.
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