2632:
don't see any other than others pushing the POV that anything related to Trumps should be treated differently than if it was related to any other human being on earth. Btw. My personal feelings for Mr. Trump have never been publically expressed anywhere, please do not infer any personal beliefs on your part on me, thank you. And I have not actually mentioned the Trumps in the hooks, I mentioned caecilians - the implication that Jr. and the others are caecilians is on you and not me, I did not make such a un-neutral statement . "wormy, tentacle ridden slimeball" referred to the caecilians, note the use of the term "genus" (unless you mean to tell me that the Trump family is their own genus?) My only disdain is for people using the errors page to get on their soapbox about something that is demonstratively
3180:
that idea, but that WP is not stating / implying that this is true. I am willing to openly admit that I do not like / admire Donald Trump... but as a
Wikipedian, I still am concerned about implying, in WP's voice, that Trump is a slimy / a worm or even making an unflattering comparison on the size of some part of his anatomy. Please, would you explain to me either (a) how the current hook is not going to be read (at least by some) as WP implying that Trump is slimy or worm-like, or (b) why the emphasis of my ALTs is unacceptable to you or not hooky or problematic, or both?
413:
379:
81:
1224:
1174:
1053:
933:
338::::::::::That would not intrigue and attract the reader nearly as well, which is the purpose of a hook. Also, this concern that the reader understand that other caecilians are wormlike and so on is misplaced. If a hook said that ''the Chapel of St. X was designed by da Vinci'' we wouldn't rush to graft on the fact that da Vinci designed other chapels. ]] 10:20, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
331::::::::::That would not intrigue and attract the reader nearly as well, which is the purpose of a hook. Also, this concern that the reader understand that other caecilians are wormlike and so on is misplaced. If a hook said that ''the Chapel of St. X was designed by da Vinci'' we wouldn't rush to graft on the fact that da Vinci designed other chapels. ]] 10:20, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
2502:, where there are well-established practices for naming rights and methods. It shows that the name is proposed, with more details being available in the article. It avoids the issue of the motivation of the name proposer, though many will form their own views. It is factual, supported by reliable sources, and sober in tone. Thoughts?
2687:
want to know my motives? The suggested hook was only discussed here and implied that it was not neutral/contentious/whatever else I'm sure I'm missing because it has the letters d-o-n-a-l-d-t-r-u-m-p in it, and apparently, we should treat a hook differently - so yes censorship is worth digging my heels in over.
3130:? Oh and the EdChem alts, if you remove the "proposed" part are virtually identical to mine, slight wording difference but basically the same. Please do explain to me how it's acceptable and neutral to throw in the term "proposed specie" and be all fine? And could you make it better than "See above"?
2732:
I also find it remarkable that multiple editors whose strong disapproval of Donald Trump is no secret would invent imaginary neutrality issues to "censor" a hook in which a variant of his name appears in an unflattering context. Do you suppose it's possible that we set aside our personal opinions in
2631:
You say "Conflated", I say "addressed" - Potato, Patato. So what other concerns did I ignore? The main comment about his not being neutral was that the hook failed to point out the traits were not unique to this specific specimens - I think I addressed that. What other specific concerns did I miss? I
1796:
If you are asking whether one characteristic intended to take the mickey is better than another, then I do not. If you are asking whether I think WP:NPOV is more important than the placing of a link to this article on the Main Page, then yes, I do. Doesn't everyone who subscribes to the WP:PILLARS?
1608:
The spin given in the reporting of this self promoting purchase of naming rights was the binomial was the full joke, and yes, it is improper to widow the specific epithet or recognise the species before any authority does. Playing up to this media exercise is pretty distasteful to me, but there is an
1593:
I am as happy to undermine the masked pumpkin as anyone, but the article is about a proposed species, the name has not yet been formally published, it is not proper form to give the species part of a binomial in isolation, and the features chosen to describe the caecilian are clearly a fail of NPOV.
3179:
MPJ-DK, the current hook and your ALTs appear constructed to imply "that Trump is a slimy worm." I make no comment on your intent, or anyone else's, but that is the reason for the concerns here. My ALTs are tweaking this to recognise that the intention of the namer of the species might be to evoke
2799:
Btw. My personal feelings for Mr. Trump have never been publically expressed anywhere, please do not infer any personal beliefs on your part on me, thank you. And I have not actually mentioned the Trumps in the hooks, I mentioned caecilians - the implication that Jr. and the others are caecilians is
1846:
Does the person who posted "Apparently Trump will be alone in the White House for New Year's so running this Jan 1 might help cheer him up, but it looks like everything's queued up for that date already. Another thought would be Jan 3. Anyone have other thoughts re what date would best showcase this
872:
This left me wondering what name had originally been given to the species now called
Australian raven (a pair of words that draws no parallels with 'carrion crow'): if we could clarify that it is the Latin specific name that is similar to that of the carrion crow it might be helpful. Perhaps 'with a
2917:
for ease of location. EdChem's proposals suffer from the fact that it is trying to slap two unrelated facts together to create a hook, not sure why it reintroduced the discussion on "proposed species" and combined it with the physical description. Common DYK issue I've seen repeatedly and seen that
2860:
So, another "wall of text", yet no explanation of what concern was not addressed. You go "Hey this applies to all caecilian, it's not neutral to make it look like it's unique to this thing-a-ma-bob". If it frosts your weiner that I used the term "family" over "genus" that can certainly be replaced,
2785:
That isn't about non-neutrality. It's simply misleading. It relates to the hook's non-neutrality tangentially, in the respect that it reflects the lengths to which the hook's author went to word it in a manner deriding Donald Trump – a goal not furthered by the inclusion of details other than the
2614:
You've conflated separate concerns and ignored others in a manner that seems deliberately rude, dismissive and feignedly obtuse. (Your use of the phrase "wormy, tentacle ridden slimeball" served no apparent purpose other than to mock our concerns by flaunting your disdain for Donald Trump and your
2591:
There we go, the issue that was raised has been resolved - since there is a belief that it mocks The Trump by making it seem like there is only one wormy, tentacle ridden slimeball in the family/genus/whatevs. So it now has 1) genus in the hook 2) is not insinuating that it's a unique feature which
2373:
I get that you have said that. I guess i will rephrase it - Tell me HOW it is against guidelines to put facts cited by reliable third party sources on the Main Page? You guys are the ones suggesting that we put an opinion out there as a fact or give UNDUE weight to the suggestion that it is mocking
2209:
introduced the topic of your motive behind the wording that you selected. You claim that your intent is to "simply describe the organism" and "focus on a straightforward description which may catch the interest of children", despite posting multiple anti-Trump messages on your user page, referring
2044:
to be "cherry-picked". You may think belittling the president of the United States is interesting. I prefer to focus on a straightforward description which may catch the interest of children, for example, who like "yucky" things. The hook implies nothing about a "verified species", and to my memory
1748:
Lay readers will naturally assume that Flores Island "man" had a mouth and two arms, but they lack your ready knowledge of caecilians. We could have used blindness or buries-head-in-sand, I suppose -- there's little else to choose from -- but the time for that was back in the nomination discussion.
1389:
But it is not an introductory date; the sentence in each case starts "Did you know that...", so those
Grammarly articles are irrelevant. The time clause either needs to be totally enclosed in parenthetical commas, or have none: the practice at the moment is to close an unopened parenthetical pair,
1299:
I disagree: DannyS712 is pointing out an unambiguous grammatical error. See my explanation above (DYK current 1 Jan 19) about matching commas either side of adverbial phrases (or omitting both), unless the phrase starts or ends a sentence. Of course the sentence is understandable despite the error,
1890:
are suggesting is POV pushing, that we should not follow the
Knowledge guidelines in this case, that subjects related to Trump should be treated differently is the very definition of NPOV. Artcle and hook is based on cited facts, unlike your attempts to have that be labelled as an "error". Can you
809:. Another user wrote the text you want changed, or reported an issue they see in something you wrote. Everyone's goal should be producing the best Main Page possible. The compressed time frame of the Main Page means sometimes action must be taken before there has been time for everyone to comment.
2686:
I guess it's "2 accusations" and "0 explanations", because I have twice asked what concerns were not addressed? Both of you said I did not address them all, then there was stuff where you guys speculated on my motives for this which I will choose to ignore since neither of you acually know i. You
986:
He was arrested for driving with false number plates. It took some time for him to be identified as the
Yorkshire Ripper, certainly not conclusive on 2nd Jan. Suggest "English serial killer Peter Sutcliffe, the "Yorkshire Ripper", was arrested in Sheffield, initially on a charge of driving with
3148:
has now expressed a clear comment on my proposal, regarding two unrelated facts, I can make a further suggestion. The word "proposed" is necessary for the binomial name as it the new species is not yet officially named. Offering a description of the caecilian is not an unrelated fact, it is an
2284:
According to the
Washington Post it was designed to belittle him, do we want Knowledge to state a WP opinion as an encyclopedic fact? Now granted there are other facts that COULD be used - but this is WP:ERRORS, not WP:IDON'TLIKEIT, so let's deal with the fact that there is no error in the hook.
1965:
I agree with Kevin McE. My personal opinion of Donald Trump notwithstanding, I find this hook highly problematic. (He's also correct that no deadline for reporting problems with the main page's content exists. It's incumbent on the sections' contributors to adhere to
Knowledge's policies and
1815:
that the creature is "slimey", looks like a worm and has tentacles are not neutral? Describing he creature - with citations in the source, seems to be a neutral point of view. That someone outside of
Knowledge decided to name it something is not covered by NPOV, article writers do not represent
2026:
I want
Knowledge's main page to include a neutral statement of the fact that makes the subject noteworthy (in this case, that someone wants to name a proposed species after Donald Trump to belittle him), not a description of the organism – falsely implied to be a verified species, without even
2659:
What concerns were not addressed? I re-read the whole thing after Mr. Levy made the comment above, and I don't see any other issues being raised about "neutrality" was that "it makes it look like only this species has those properties". So that was addressed, please be specific in what other
1973:
As explained in our article, the characteristics described are noteworthy because of an effort to belittle Donald Trump. Omitting that key detail transfers the belittlement from a third party to
Knowledge. Additionally, implying that the species is verified to exist is misleading and adds
1733:
would have been announced as it having "a mouth and two arms". Despite protestations that "we are only reporting facts", the selection of these entirely unremarkable facts can have no motivation other than a desire to belittle the namesake, which I share in any other context, but not in an
2592:
seems to be the basis for suggesting the NPOV nature of the facts. So the complaint here, the "Error" people suggest seem to see is that the hook was presenting a fact it like it was "Unique" and thus not is not "neutral", so I addressed that concern, can we slap 2a or 2b and move on now?
3568:
The discussion above is not achieving much, and has gone beyond the purpose of this page which is to correct simple errors. I have pulled the hook and will reopen the nomination, where proper scrutiny of the various hooks can be be undertaken, with reference to relevant noticeboards (e.g.
1863:
I don't understand. Our president loves to see his name on things, so I thought he would like this. Though I'm not responsible for the choice of last slot -- the "quirky" slot, I believe they call it -- you can see how a species named after a president might be seen as quirky.
3126:? I jus want to be sure since you repeatedly made comments on "above". If this is the thing that did not happen then our conversation is over, we're obviously speaking different languages. And to be clear - I was paraphrasing, not quoting. How am I being obtuse when the hooks
171:
2804:
In one of your suggested hooks, you mentioned the "family" (unlinked), despite the information's applicability to the entire order (caecilians, which you mentioned in a separate hook). Your denial that this was an allusion to Trump's family is beyond the bounds of
1300:
but many of us find grammatical mistakes in text annoying, and generally Knowledge aspires not to include such errors. It would indeed be nice if errors were recognised earlier, but that does not imply that they should be ignored if they are noticed only later.
2393:
I've explained the problem in great detail. Again, factuality alone is insufficient. Context matters too. Information – even if verifiable – mustn't be presented in a manner that misleads readers or assigns undue prominence of placement to certain details
2922:, I made no indication of superiority - unless you think that me saying "these address the concerns" is me saying "these are superior"? And the sarcastic tone is all in your head, it is a shame you did not take my offer to reword either 2a or 2b slightly.
761:
If the error lies primarily in the content of an article linked from the Main Page, fix the problem there before reporting it here. Text on the Main Page generally defers to the articles with bolded links. Upcoming content on the Main Page is usually only
2442:
If someone wants to allege a violation of NPOV, BLP, or some other policy, there are forums that specialise in such issues. It's clear that the discussion here is not making much progress. However, if a less controversial wording is sought, how about:
1129:
Nope: grammatically the subject of the sentence is plural. You could rephrase it as "The Guepe class of submarines was...", when the subject would be singular. As to the original issue of whether to include "the", both versions sound acceptable to me.
73:
3502:
I don't agree that "proposed name" is superfluous information, but my opinion has no more value than anyone else's. Hopefully a consensus can now emerge from the options that are available here. Thanks to all for moving things forward. :)
1925:
is a verified species is misleading, while highlighting characteristics remarkable solely because they tie in to the aforementioned belittlement (without including this information in the hook) is non-neutral, despite the factual basis. (See
2677:, I agree with David about your approach to this, I regard your response and alts as tendentious. Have you considered whether this puerile publicity stunt, that only serves to feed the god-troll himself, is worth digging your heels in over?
1517:
This doesn't really emphasise the surprise element: many countries have multi-representative seats in which it is not odd for members of the same family to compete with each other: here they are with different parties, so they are competing
2834:
Do you assert that a hypothetical violation of Knowledge's policies does't constitute an "error" in the relevant sense? If not, your opinion that none exists in this instance isn't grounds for shutting down a discussion in which others
260::::::::EEng and MPJ-DK seem to be maintaining that their intention is only to provide access to information about an animal species, with no political inference or motivation. I trust that they will see no difficulty in that case with:
253::::::::EEng and MPJ-DK seem to be maintaining that their intention is only to provide access to information about an animal species, with no political inference or motivation. I trust that they will see no difficulty in that case with:
3238:
EEng and MPJ-DK seem to be maintaining that their intention is only to provide access to information about an animal species, with no political inference or motivation. I trust that they will see no difficulty in that case with:
2102:
Your claims that the hook is intended to "simply describe the organism" and "focus on a straightforward description which may catch the interest of children" would be easier to take at face value if your user page didn't contain
1255:
it is not our style to remove the comma (see above explanation). We also put "the" before the name of a British subject, per British English. The hook should read: "... that in the 1980s, the British physician John R. Seale ..."
1765:
The time for errors, including breaches of the most fundamental principles of Knowledge, is right here. If something should not be in the Main Portal of a major website, no point in time for stopping it is the wrong point.
1106:
is mistaken in that the object here is singular (a single class of submarines) rather than plural (the submarines themselves). The actual error here, IMO, is that the last part of the hook is wrong, but I've raised tat at
1847:
wonderful honor?" on the nomination page really believe (and expect us to believe) that the proposed name of the article's subject and its presence in the "humorous" final slot with unflattering comparison are unrelated?
3300:
That would not intrigue and attract the reader nearly as well, which is the purpose of a hook. Also, this concern that the reader understand that other caecilians are wormlike and so on is misplaced. If a hook said that
2865:. If you prefer to use the term "caecilian" that I had no clue what was over the description from the caecilian article itself to make it more reader-friendly, you could've just said that, I'm all about collaboration.
2896:
At this point, it's difficult to read that as anything other than sarcasm. Please disprove this by evaluating EdChem's proposal, on which you've yet to comment (let lone explain why you regard yours as superior).
987:
false number plates." or "English serial killer Peter Sutcliffe, the "Yorkshire Ripper", was arrested in Sheffield, which eventually brought to an end one of the largest police investigations in British history."
1710:
I agree that the full binomial should be given, and I disagree that describing the physical appearance of this species has any NPOV issues. Also I am starting to need reading glasses but otherwise fully sighted.
2660:
guideline based concerns were brought up? I genuinely do not see any. My interest here is to make sure there is neutrality, had it had ANY other name the hook would have run and not have heard a single peep.
3373:
EngChem's suggestion (that found some support) bu without the two seperate facs being mushed together in accordances with how DKY hooks are normlly constructed. The "Proposed" comment is not something that
2790:
What other specific concerns did I miss? I don't see any other than others pushing the POV that anything related to Trumps should be treated differently than if it was related to any other human being on
2636:. And finally, please do point out what concerns I "rudely" ignored so we can get them addressed, apparently, I missed them in the wall of text above, (and don't worry I will ignore the personal attack).
846:
2781:
So what other concerns did I ignore? The main comment about his not being neutral was that the hook failed to point out the traits were not unique to this specific specimens - I think I addressed that.
2880:
So, another "wall of text", yet no explanation of what concern was not addressed. You go "Hey this applies to all caecilian, it's not neutral to make it look like it's unique to this thing-a-ma-bob"
833:
3211:
So, may I ask (and I direct this comment / question generally rather that at any individual), can we move the focus of this discussion more to the hook and bring the temperature down? Thank you.
25:
2498:
This makes it clear that the description refers to caecilians in general, so it cannot be taken as WP offering any description of its namesake. It makes it clear that we are talking about
2299:
If you're under the impression that alleged violations of Knowledge's policies and guidelines fall outside this page's purview, you're mistaken. Some are among the most serious errors (
1007:
1667:
The purpose of a hook is to intrigue the reader into clicking through to the article. For a new species the obvious way to do that is to describe attention-getting physical features.
1199:"that in the 1980s, British physician..." either a comma is needed ("that, in the 1980s, British") or, ideally, the current comma should be removed ("that in the 1980s British...").
2953:
I inferred that you perceived deficiencies of some sort because you proposed additional alternatives instead of expressing approval of EdChem's hook or suggesting revisions thereto.
1426:"that before Andrew L. Lewis became commander of the United States Second Fleet, he flew..." - comma after Fleet should be removed (or, less ideally, a comma should be added -: -->
1036:
Guêpe-class submarines were designed..." not technically an error (I think), but can I suggest removing "the". It sounds weird followed by a plural object in this sentence, IMO --
222:
154:
2554:
So based on comments what make the hook "Not Neutral" is that it does no point out that the description is not unique to the donaldtrumpi: Voila, several options to address that
1157:
Apparently they were made to defend harbours, but not entirely from within. Suggest " that Guêpe-class submarines were solely intended for use in harbor defense?" (per EdChem)
2406:
Again, if that aspect is contested, it can be omitted. I took your concern seriously and suggested alternative wording to address it, so why are you still arguing this point?
3612:
1882:
Since the wikipedian is not responsible for the naming you cannot put that on that person, he could not name it that without the presense of reliable sources to support the
639:
3378:
to be in the hook and I simply deleed words and nothing else. I believe I have now moved past the halfway mark to meet you, as I said 'I am all about collaboration".
2809:"wormy, tentacle ridden slimeball" referred to the caecilians, note the use of the term "genus" (unless you mean to tell me that the Trump family is their own genus?)
818:. Once an error has been addressed or determined not to be an error, or the item has been rotated off the Main Page, the report will be removed from this page. Check
960:
3010:- yes I agree that was a concern, that is why my suggestions make it clear that it's no unique to that new squiddly thing. QED I did address the misleading part.
3418:
I think that my ALT1d and MPJ-DK's ALT1a-A are very similar, but for some grammatical issues. I recognise that some rearrangements are also possible, such as:
2141:– I'm afraid you're going to have to convince your fellow editors that there's an ERROR in the hook by reference to the hook itself, not to anything about me.
2129:
This information becomes relevant when the characteristics mentioned apply to the entire order. Specifying a single member (verified or not) is misleading. —
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2265:
in particular purely because it evokes an unflattering association with Donald Trump. That's an inappropriate use of DYK. Factuality alone doesn't justify
981:
English serial killer Peter Sutcliffe, the "Yorkshire Ripper", was arrested in Sheffield, ending one of the largest police investigations in British history.
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that your goal was to "best showcase this wonderful honor", preferably on a day when Trump might see the main page. (And yet, your hook doesn't even
2909:- what didn't happen? I did not provide two alts that made it clear that it was not unique to this one proposed species? I believe they are labelled
2839:
And finally, please do point out what concerns I "rudely" ignored so we can get them addressed, apparently, I missed them in the wall of text above,
1452:
this is not DYK style (see first thread, above). Our goal is to make the hooks easy to read, not run-on sentences, and the comma accomplishes that.
1026:
593:
3662:
albeit with some distinction between 'true prions' and the blue petrel. So that would suggest 'similar to that of other closely-related prions.'
2339:
We get that you'd prefer a different hook, but you didn't answer MPH-DK's fundamental challenge that you identify the ERROR in the approved hook.
1613:
1577:
1202:
2843:
The "wall of text" exists because we've been forced to reiterate these points over and over. Doing so again would only increase the wall's size.
2374:
him. So what exact guideline (chapter and verse) is this breaking? I don't see it but I welcome an opportunity to learn and expand my knowledge.
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1618:
I'm glad this got some traction. I made some changes to article; objective I hope, I don't know anything about caecilians. I strongly recommend
1563:
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I find it quite remarkable that we somehow managed to construct a "wall of text" comprising "0 explanations" of the concerns discussed therein.
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1489:
I've added a comma after "that". Hopefully that both fixes the grammar and helps to keep the hook easy to read per Yoninah's comment. — Martin
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I don't mean to suggest that this is the section's primary purpose. I'm saying that it's a reasonable alternative to presenting information
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Phew wall o text" again. First of "your inference is not my action", quit doing that please. so the "didn't happen" refers to this comment
2410:
So what exact guideline (chapter and verse) is this breaking? I don't see it but I welcome an opportunity to learn and expand my knowledge.
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790:
get a faster response. It is unnecessary, because this page is not protected, and causes display problems because this is not a talk page.
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You guys are the ones suggesting that we put an opinion out there as a fact or give UNDUE weight to the suggestion that it is mocking him.
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2125:
and to my memory most DYKs on organisms don't give their orders and don't comment on their similarity or dissimilarity to other organisms.
2040:
A DYK hook isn't supposed to give "the fact that makes the subject noteworthy". It's supposed to be interesting -- in fact it's very much
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Template:Did_you_know&type=revision&diff=876422756&oldid=876390291&diffmode=source
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I linked to a specific policy section repeatedly. (You just mentioned "UNDUE", which appears to suggest that you're aware of this.) —
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1694:, for a confirming set of eyes. (At least I assume he has a pair of eyes; if he's got only one eye, or one working eye, I apologize.)
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It's not grammatically incorrect to have a comma after the introductory date. If anything, it reads better if you do include it. See
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2795:
Please quote the message in which someone argued this. (Regardless, thanks for acknowledging that the hook is "related to Trumps".)
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Hooks inconsistent with Knowledge's policies and guidelines constitute errors, provided that the violations aren't deliberate (as I
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2194:
I'm afraid you're going to have to convince your fellow editors that there's an ERROR in the hook by reference to the hook itself,
2098:
I prefer to focus on a straightforward description which may catch the interest of children, for example, who like "yucky" things.
1554:
I suggest that "compete against two of his children" would clarify the situation, and thereby indeed make a more intriguing hook.
3607:
803:. Lengthy discussions should be moved to a suitable location elsewhere, such as the talk page of the relevant article or project.
2751:
Had it had any other name (except, perhaps, one intended to belittle someone else), the hook wouldn't even have been written. —
2363:(I've included the word "alleged" to avoid implying that I regard Kevin's assertion – with which I agree – as a matter of fact.)
2246:
Agreed. We simply need to avoid misleading readers. Do you oppose identifying the organism as a proposed species in the hook?
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2226:
the "honor", instead focusing on characteristics that are entirely mundane outside their unflattering association with Trump).
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2010:
The approved hook simply describes the organism. Instead you want Knowledge's main page to highlight belittlement of Trump?
1797:
Is there a blurb to be made that is not intended to poke fun? (I have clarified point as point in time if that helps you).
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2045:
most DYKs on organisms don't give their orders and don't comment on their similarity or dissimilarity to other organisms.
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2569:
measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles like all other members of its family?
2001:
This conveys the basic information for which the subject is notable without actively taking part in the disparagement. —
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2888:, while simultaneously complaining about my refusal to continue reiterating explanations that you've ignored repeatedly.
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what didn't happen? I did not provide two alts that made it clear that it was not unique to this one proposed species?
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My only disdain is for people using the errors page to get on their soapbox about something that is demonstratively
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No, it is not an error, and we do add "the" to most European hooks, such as British physicians and German sopranos.
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In the photo caption, "New Horizons" should be italicized. And it's a bit wordy; I think it should be cut down to "
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measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles like all other members of its
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In this instance, the "common name" refers to a proposed species that hasn't even been confirmed to exist. What
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Aw! shatched from the hands of victory, I thought that the most recent comments pushed it towards a consensus.
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3124:"Hey this applies to all caecilian, it's not neutral to make it look like it's unique to this thing-a-ma-bob"
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I can't parse that last bit, but it sounds like you'd like to switch to the burying of the head in the sand?
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that may be the case, but it is grammatically incorrect. See my full explanation in the first thread above --
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Criticism of a user's on-wiki conduct and its interference with productive discourse ≠ a personal attack. —
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that Dimyati Natakusumah is set to compete with two of his children in the 2019 Indonesian general election?
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An indirect reference; a hint; a reference to something supposed to be known, but not explicitly mentioned.
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concerns in this section, but it seems to be more palpable than my suggestion and thus is a-okay with me.
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I think that naming a proposed species after him is interesting, irrespective of the underlying rationale.
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Tell me HOW it is against guidelines to put facts cited by reliable third party sources on the Main Page?
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To be clear, I'm not advocating such wording. I'm pointing out that the description has been applied to
2145:– RSs refer to the organism by the name we're using; there's no "official approval" we have to wait for.
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A species name presented without qualification strongly implies the existence of an established species.
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that donaldtrumpi measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles
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3208:. Also, I think your version ALT1c was preferable to my ALT1a and ALT1b, so I have struck them.
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your grammatical fixes are not errors, and should be discussed when the hooks are still in prep.
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Withdraw you alternatives if you want it resolved, they are not addressing the concerns raised.
284:'''... that ''''']''''' is a small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles like all other ]?
273:'''... that ''''']''''' is a small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles like all other ]?
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unless you think that me saying "these address the concerns" is me saying "these are superior"?
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measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles, like all
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measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles, like all
432:, some spelling, grammar or terminology it uses may be different or otherwise absent in yours.
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do either of you have any objection o the most recently "non-MPJ" suggested hook "... that a
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Admin Maile66 made this change based on my report at WT:DYK before the hook set went live.
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2113:. Is that purely coincidental and unrelated to your magnanimous effort to educate youths?
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mentioning its order or explaining that all of its members share these characteristics –
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The hook doesn't ascribe the characteristics appropriately (i.e., to the order to which
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exist is an external entity's effort to belittle Donald Trump, so it's neutral to state
1335:). Just wanted to let you know about this discussion. Would you consider removing it? --
755:(UTC, currently 20:36 on 21 September 2024) and is not adjusted to your local time zone.
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306::::::::*'''ALT3b'''... that ''''']''''' of ] is small, slimy, worm-like, and tentacled?
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And it breaks the "easter egg" issue that DYK ususally go out of their way to avoid.
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As noted above, that never happened. You've contradicted something that I explained
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measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles?
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had it had ANY other name the hook would have run and not have heard a single peep.
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image of Ultima Thule". (If the apostrophe is kept, it needs another S as well per
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3520:- if that's what most people get behind then I'll drop my objection to this part.
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all caecilians possess a pair of tentacles located between their eyes and nostrils
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We absolutely don't have to wait for formal publication; RSs are abundant on this.
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Did you overlook the first portion of my reply? I'll excerpt a relevant phrase:
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with a species name highlighting its similarity to the carrion crow (C. corone).
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beginning 24 hours before its scheduled appearance. Before that period, you can
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3186:, FYI, I read MPJ's mention of family as a reference to its meaning within the
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ridicule of Donald Trump and/or his family, which appears to be your intent. —
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to use the term "Spineless amphibian"? if not then we may have ALT2c lined up.
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A DYK hook isn't supposed to give "the fact that makes the subject noteworthy".
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are helpful, especially when reporting an obscure factual or grammatical error.
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MPJ-DK, I'm going to sue you for stealing all the points I was about to make.
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problematic than the original hook. I've also endorsed EdChem's proposal. —
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I've inserted an opening comma and prepended "the" to "British physician". —
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we wouldn't rush to graft on the fact that da Vinci designed other chapels.
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I was referring to the statement quoted directly above the text in question.
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it is a shame you did not take my offer to reword either 2a or 2b slightly.
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You may think belittling the president of the United States is interesting.
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in a manner intended to evoke unflattering comparisons to a living person.
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that Guêpe-class submarines were designed to operate solely inside harbors
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This seems like an elegant solution. I prefer 1b or the use of dashes:
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To quote my wife on many, many occasions "What are you talking about?"
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If you regard the belittlement aspect as contested, it can be omitted:
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encyclopaedia that proclaims itself as having a neutral point of view.
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is what happened the last time I reported this - the comma was removed
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is a small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles like all other
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Indeed, it's supposed to be cherry-picked to be interesting. That
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3042:(my emphasis) is pretty clearly talking about that thinga-ma-jig.
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explanation that is needed if readers aren't going to click on
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Sure enough, you described the deficiencies that you perceived
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on you and not me, I did not make such a un-neutral statement .
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the hook doesn't say or imply these characteristics are unique.
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notes that it's up to personal preference in cases like these.
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I don't agree that "proposed name" is superfluous information
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That Alt I can totally support - even if it does not address
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anyone's specific point of view but just describe the facts.
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the interest of maintaining the encyclopedia's integrity? —
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that they aren't deliberate) that the main page can contain.
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to the description's trimming as "good news for Donald" in
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It was certainly an oversight on my part to omit the genus.
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below, over other options, with a personal preference for
2531:– a small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles – is
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Specifying a single member (verified or not) is misleading
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It's supposed to be interesting -- in fact it's very much
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on others to intervene before their discussions conclude.)
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All caecilians are limbless, and therefore wormlike, and "
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Latin species name...', or pipe-linking 'species name' to
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Knowledge does not prefer any national variety of English.
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describe the blue petrel as a prion, as does the article
2460:, a small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles, is
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alleged violations of Knowledge's policies and guidelines
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issue pointed out in many hook reviews. And I suggested
2822:) A person who is slimy, that is, sneaky or underhanded.
2786:
characteristics intended to evoke negative associations.
2765:
You say "Conflated", I say "addressed" - Potato, Patato.
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desire to place it on display on Knowledge's main page.)
2485:(a small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles) is
2370:
is true in this instance). 04:59, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
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would be easier to take at face value if your user page
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to evoke negative associations with a living person. —
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For general discussion about the Main Page, please use
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strives for writing common to all varieties of English
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I've outlined my neutrality concerns in great detail.
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I await your citation of the scientific meaning of "
2847:(and don't worry I will ignore the personal attack).
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those that cast a negative light on living persons).
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The hook implies nothing about a "verified species",
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there's no "official approval" we have to wait for.
1977:I suggest a hook along the lines of the following:
824:for a record of any discussion or action taken; no
2230:RSs refer to the organism by the name we're using;
1899:board? Not your POV but guideline related errors.
733:An exact quotation of the text in question helps.
384:Please post error reports regarding only what is
3703:
3552:small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles
3489:small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles
3459:small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles
3434:small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles
3162:small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles
2988:I've stated unambiguously that I regard them as
451:content currently or imminently on the Main Page
1974:additional weight to the non-neutral statment.
3638:similar to that of the closely-related prion.
3303:the Chapel of St. X was designed by da Vinci
422:have already been discussed here at length:
2972:And the sarcastic tone is all in your head,
2234:Agreed. At no point have I argued that we
1102:Yoninah is correct, this is not an error.
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420:national variations of the English language
3280:is small, slimy, worm-like, and tentacled?
2968:I think that it's you feigning obtuseness.
2777:concern and deemed the former "addressed".
441:comparison of American and British English
322::::::::] (]) 10:08, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
315::::::::] (]) 10:08, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
3647:, so prion would need to be pluralised.
2704:, "guys wanna take my freeze peach" …?
14:
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3643:There are 6 species within the genus
2949:, I made no indication of superiority
759:Can you resolve the problem yourself?
453:, use the appropriate section below.
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345:Revision as of 10:40, 2 January 2019
163:Revision as of 10:40, 2 January 2019
100:Revision as of 10:36, 2 January 2019
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2086:in which I used the term above.
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1331:You added this comma back in (
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3678:Errors in the summary of the
2317:is a proposed new species of
1988:is a proposed new species of
1674:Adding the genus we now have
1609:error that needs correcting.
1361:does not refute any of this.
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2892:I'm all about collaboration.
1427:"that, before Andrew...") --
770:and fix any issues yourself.
28:Browse history interactively
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3573:) as appropriate. — Martin
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3204:and the family is actually
3153:to find out what it means.
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2269:prominence of placement. —
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1891:please point out what the
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1390:which is simply wrong.
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635:Commons media protection
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418:Most issues relating to
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3479:Dermophis donaldtrumpi
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1984:Dermophis donaldtrumpi
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1681:Dermophis donaldtrumpi
1568:Tweaked as suggested.
1351:this Grammarly article
764:protected from editing
704:It is currently 20:36
449:To report an error in
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3036:all other members of
2861:that is why it was a
2527:for a new species of
2481:for a new species of
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875:Binomial nomenclature
807:Respect other editors
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1992:, named to belittle
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821:the revision history
779:edit fully-protected
3188:taxonomic structure
2907:that never happened
2143:established species
792:(See the bottom of
731:Where is the error?
712:Purge the Main Page
428:Although Knowledge
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2219:explicitly stating
737:Offer a correction
654:General discussion
594:admin instructions
473:September 21, 2024
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691:Alternatives
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603:Did you know
555:TFL (Friday)
480:September 22
466:September 20
448:
419:
389:
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3475:: ... that
3144:Given that
2958:immediately
1027:DYK current
970:On this day
901:In the news
774:Do not use
608:nominations
579:In the news
280::::::::*'''
269::::::::*'''
223:Next edit →
42:Next edit →
3693:FL current
3645:Pachyptila
3628:POTD today
3619:tomorrow's
3613:Errors in
3548:David Levy
3255:caecilians
3184:David Levy
3066:David Levy
3026:David Levy
2994:David Levy
2947:alternates
2920:alternates
2899:David Levy
2863:suggestion
2853:David Levy
2815:slimeball:
2753:David Levy
2735:David Levy
2624:David Levy
2620:additional
2546:David Levy
2416:David Levy
2396:especially
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2271:David Levy
2131:David Levy
2033:David Levy
2003:David Levy
1932:David Levy
1406:David Levy
1018:after next
967:tomorrow's
961:Errors in
898:Errors in
853:tomorrow's
749:Time zones
743:References
640:Associated
613:discussion
589:discussion
584:candidates
390:imminently
213:→DYK next
3664:Kevin McE
3545:Kevin McE
3286:Kevin McE
3278:caecilian
3268:... that
3245:... that
3197:Dermophis
3151:caecilian
3116:caecilian
3106:... that
3088:... that
3058:allusion:
2978:slimeball
2835:disagree.
2771:conflated
2598:caecilian
2575:... that
2561:... that
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2483:caecilian
2458:caecilian
2319:caecilian
2309:... that
2258:belongs).
2236:shouldn't
1990:caecilian
1980:... that
1849:Kevin McE
1799:Kevin McE
1768:Kevin McE
1736:Kevin McE
1677:... that
1596:Kevin McE
1570:Vanamonde
1524:Kevin McE
1477:DannyS712
1448:DannyS712
1429:DannyS712
1392:Kevin McE
1365:Anarchyte
1359:MOS:COMMA
1337:DannyS712
1327:Anarchyte
1277:DannyS712
1209:DannyS712
1159:Kevin McE
1104:DannyS712
1038:DannyS712
989:Kevin McE
976:OTD today
940:— Martin
918:Modulus12
879:Kevin McE
862:TFA today
828:are kept.
623:BotErrors
464:Yesterday
394:Main Page
386:currently
359:WP:ERRORS
351:Shortcuts
295::::::::or
233:Line 213:
230:Line 213:
180:Kevin McE
3706:Category
3436:has the
2775:separate
2301:assuming
2076:supposed
2042:supposed
1928:WP:UNDUE
1637:Pinging
1421:DYK next
914:MOS:POSS
826:archives
478:Tomorrow
190:contribs
122:contribs
66:Wikitext
3698:FL next
3615:today's
3571:WT:NPOV
3483:is the
3356:ALT1a-A
3040:family?
2769:You've
2224:mention
1647:Yoninah
1520:against
1471:Yoninah
1454:Yoninah
1283:Yoninah
1258:Yoninah
1086:Yoninah
1010:current
963:today's
849:today's
768:be bold
686:History
674:Sandbox
392:on the
366:WP:MP/E
150:ah well
3592:MPJ-DK
3522:MPJ-DK
3505:EdChem
3487:for a
3457:for a
3402:MPJ-DK
3380:MPJ-DK
3323:MPJ-DK
3213:EdChem
3190:– see
3146:MPJ-DK
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3044:MPJ-DK
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2867:MPJ-DK
2791:earth.
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2368:assume
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1901:MPJ-DK
1897:errors
1818:MPJ-DK
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1183:EdChem
1113:EdChem
1109:WT:DYK
1032:"that
717:Purge
514:SA/OTD
509:SA/OTD
504:SA/OTD
439:and a
202:43,192
142:84,267
112:MPJ-DK
77:Inline
59:Visual
3652:prion
3473:ALT1g
3451:ALT1f
3430:ALT1e
3266:ALT3b
3243:ALT3a
3202:genus
3158:ALT1d
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2267:undue
1930:.) —
1893:ERROR
1624:Alt1c
1538:error
1251:Nakon
1235:Nakon
1080:Nakon
1064:Nakon
1016:, or
618:queue
471:Today
282:ALT3a
217:or...
204:edits
144:edits
16:<
3684:next
3680:last
3668:talk
3654:and
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2291:talk
2110:this
2108:and
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1905:talk
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937:Done
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883:talk
721:page
719:this
664:Help
435:See
271:ALT3
186:talk
172:undo
167:edit
118:talk
104:edit
3682:or
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1034:the
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