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Thus he still acted outwardly in the name of the
Caliphate, whose abolition was his ultimate objective. With every appearance of defernce he mobilized the ulema, the religious authority of Angora, which now issued a counterblast to Constantinople with a fetva of its own." "... to encourage such deputies as might be reluctant to come to the newly elected Assembly, he thus circulated throughout the country his own proclamation which outdid the Sultan-Caliph himself in its Islamic invocations." Later, p.386 Kinross mentions how "an emissary, claiming to represent Indian and Egyptian Moslems" "suggested to Kemal that he himself should become the Caliph." Cheers,
489:"Then the teacher - a hoja - arrived before the green bedecked door of our house, accompanied by all his scholars. After a prayer had been offered, I made an obeisance to my mother, my father and the teacher, lifting my fingertips to my breast and forehead and kissing their hands. Then, amid the cheering of my new companions, I went in joyous procession through the streets of the city to the school, which adjoined the mosque. On our arrival there another prayer was repeated in chorus; then the teacher, taking me by the hand, led me into a bare, vaulted chamber, where the sacred word of the Koran was unfolded to me."
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Eastern history and in general Soviet/Russian sources have a higher quality than the
British ones. In addition even encycl;opedia Britanica says that 728 BC Deioces united the Median tribes and became their king. It is the establishment of the Median Kingdom. Nevertheless for some reason you want to diagree. But again as I said I have left wikipedia and will not do much efforts here. You can go on with your pinion. It is now up to other Iranian editors to discuss with you. Good Luck--] (]) 13:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
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Eastern history and in general Soviet/Russian sources have a higher quality than the
British ones. In addition even encycl;opedia Britanica says that 728 BC Deioces united the Median tribes and became their king. It is the establishment of the Median Kingdom. Nevertheless for some reason you want to diagree. But again as I said I have left wikipedia and will not do much efforts here. You can go on with your pinion. It is now up to other Iranian editors to discuss with you. Good Luck--] (]) 13:31, 29 April 2008 (UTC)
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Eastern history and in general Soviet/Russian sources have a higher quality than the
British ones. In addition even encycl;opedia Britanica says that 728 BC Deioces united the Median tribes and became their king. It is the establishment of the Median Kingdom. Nevertheless for some reason you want to diagree. But again as I said I have left wikipedia and will not do much efforts here. You can go on with your pinion. It is now up to other Iranian editors to discuss with you. Good Luck--
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350:. However, I would like to know what you meant by pp.4,217, I thought pp. meant a page but obviously not. Could you tell me what you meant by that, what part of the book provides the evidence should I acquire the book and the exact words in that book that you think are proof Mustafa Kemal Atatürk was a Muslim. Also, please do not assume I don't know that there are Muslims that don't pursue political Islam. --
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he recognized as the establisher of the Median empire. The confusion comes because it is assumed that after a period Median throne got conquered( by the
Scythians probably), but the Median royal clan again defeated them. See Diakonov on the History of Media.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:24, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
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he recognized as the establisher of the Median empire. The confusion comes because it is assumed that after a period Median throne got conquered( by the
Scythians probably), but the Median royal clan again defeated them. See Diakonov on the History of Media.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 01:24, 22 April 2008 (UTC)
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but the other one states "petty Median chieftain subject to the kingdom of Mannai in modern
Iranian Azerbaijan; later tradition made him the founder of the Median empire. " It says that he was first a subject of Mannai but then managed to establish (his own) Median empire. Also in the Irnian books is
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but the other one states "petty Median chieftain subject to the kingdom of Mannai in modern
Iranian Azerbaijan; later tradition made him the founder of the Median empire. " It says that he was first a subject of Mannai but then managed to establish (his own) Median empire. Also in the Irnian books is
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On page 4: "He was born an
Ottoman Moslem, of lower middle class family and ostensibly Turkish stock." On p. 216-7: After noting how the Sheikh of Islam had pronounced a fatwa on the Nationalists, Kinross says "In creating it Kemal must reply in kind to the Islamic manifestoes of Constantinople.
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Supertask and
Aussielegend, please use the talk page to come to an agreement on what to use. Don't edit war back and forth. You never know - a third party might chip in with a great way forward that niether of you had thought about. Edit warring doesn't help anyone. kind regards. --] (]) 22:57, 5 May
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Here's some more from Kinross's book: Below are Ataturk's own words - a later recollection quoted on p.6 describing the occasion of his introduction "with the usual religious ceremony into the school of Fatima Mollah Kadin" clearly it goes along with the image discussed (which I can't find - I guess
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As I announced I have left Knowledge because of much irritation. Do not take it personal. But I am tired of some peoples'behaviour especially with regards to the Iranian articles. As your answer: I may hurt your British feelings but allow me to diagree with you, Diakonov is an authority in the near
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There is a picture showing him preying in that section. The question of ones religious beliefs is somewhat funny! Do we ask how much "Christian" one should be to be a Christian man. If one does not accept the Pope's authority, (like Caliphate) do he become non Christian? I guess in the eyes of Pope
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As I announced I have left Knowledge because of much irritation. Do not take it personal. But I am tired of some peoples'behaviour especially with regards to the Iranian articles. As your answer: I may hurt your British feelings but allow me to diagree with you, Diakonov is an authority in the near
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As I announced I have left Knowledge because of much irritation. Do not take it personal. But I am tired of some peoples'behaviour especially with regards to the Iranian articles. As your answer: I may hurt your British feelings but allow me to diagree with you, Diakonov is an authority in the near
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He never claimed he was a "Hoja" or compete for the position of Calip. He did not develop a theological theory. His position regarding angles or devil is irrelevant. His political theories are relevant, but you are not interested in them. It is not clear what your are trying to say or what is the
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Why the information of his religious belief is important? It is important because he abolished the Caliphate. (removed the Political Islam from political arena) Was he a Muslim? Yes he was. Did he liked green apples? He was not an apple farmer or a genetic scientist who works on apples. That
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Supertask and Aussielegend, please use the talk page to come to an agreement on what to use. Don't edit war back and forth. You never know - a third party might chip in with a great way forward that niether of you had thought about. Edit warring doesn't help anyone. kind regards.
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that person will be deemed for the Hell. Besides if these people who question is religious beliefs were Muslims, they would know that if one accepts God's existance, become Muslim for life. If one deny the God later, that person do not become Non-Muslim, but
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There is no need to discuss. Knowledge works with citations. There is a picture of him preying according to "Islam" rules. It is included in the article. If you brought a better proof (a picture) disproves that stop reverting the information.
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Hi. pp means "pages" as opposed to p. for "page". Maybe a bit old fashioned. Kinross's book is/was one of the main biographies of Ataturk. (It's a bit old and I think it has a reputation of being rather sympathetic to the subject.)
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dear super task see my talk page about Media. I think I have a clue and have a solution which is workable. sinply there was first a kingdom but later it became an empire.--
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How on the earth can you call Diakonov's work as an obscure book??????? He is an authority on the ancient near Eastern history.--
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significance of your position. Do not take it too personal, when people question your motives. Because they are not clear. --
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I did read it and it shows what I think - that Mustafa Kemal Atatürk's religious beliefs are not known with certainty. --
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