2601:
don't see any other than others pushing the POV that anything related to Trumps should be treated differently than if it was related to any other human being on earth. Btw. My personal feelings for Mr. Trump have never been publically expressed anywhere, please do not infer any personal beliefs on your part on me, thank you. And I have not actually mentioned the Trumps in the hooks, I mentioned caecilians - the implication that Jr. and the others are caecilians is on you and not me, I did not make such a un-neutral statement . "wormy, tentacle ridden slimeball" referred to the caecilians, note the use of the term "genus" (unless you mean to tell me that the Trump family is their own genus?) My only disdain is for people using the errors page to get on their soapbox about something that is demonstratively
3149:
that idea, but that WP is not stating / implying that this is true. I am willing to openly admit that I do not like / admire Donald Trump... but as a
Wikipedian, I still am concerned about implying, in WP's voice, that Trump is a slimy / a worm or even making an unflattering comparison on the size of some part of his anatomy. Please, would you explain to me either (a) how the current hook is not going to be read (at least by some) as WP implying that Trump is slimy or worm-like, or (b) why the emphasis of my ALTs is unacceptable to you or not hooky or problematic, or both?
279::::Please post at ]. If consensus ''does'' emerge before midnight then we can put it straight back in. But in my opinion it is mainly due to your own earlier contributions on this page that the discussion did not succeed in finding a way forward. It was tendentious and borderline trolling. I am glad to see that you are engaging in a better way now. — Martin <small>(] · ])</small> 10:48, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
382:
348:
81:
252::The discussion above is not achieving much, and has gone beyond the purpose of this page which is to correct simple errors. I have pulled the hook and will reopen the nomination, where proper scrutiny of the various hooks can be be undertaken, with reference to relevant noticeboards (e.g. ]) as appropriate. — Martin <small>(] · ])</small> 10:34, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
245::The discussion above is not achieving much, and has gone beyond the purpose of this page which is to correct simple errors. I have pulled the hook and will reopen the nomination, where proper scrutiny of the various hooks can be be undertaken, with reference to relevant noticeboards (e.g. ]) as appropriate. — Martin <small>(] · ])</small> 10:34, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
1193:
1143:
1022:
902:
2471:, where there are well-established practices for naming rights and methods. It shows that the name is proposed, with more details being available in the article. It avoids the issue of the motivation of the name proposer, though many will form their own views. It is factual, supported by reliable sources, and sober in tone. Thoughts?
2656:
want to know my motives? The suggested hook was only discussed here and implied that it was not neutral/contentious/whatever else I'm sure I'm missing because it has the letters d-o-n-a-l-d-t-r-u-m-p in it, and apparently, we should treat a hook differently - so yes censorship is worth digging my heels in over.
3099:? Oh and the EdChem alts, if you remove the "proposed" part are virtually identical to mine, slight wording difference but basically the same. Please do explain to me how it's acceptable and neutral to throw in the term "proposed specie" and be all fine? And could you make it better than "See above"?
2701:
I also find it remarkable that multiple editors whose strong disapproval of Donald Trump is no secret would invent imaginary neutrality issues to "censor" a hook in which a variant of his name appears in an unflattering context. Do you suppose it's possible that we set aside our personal opinions in
2600:
You say "Conflated", I say "addressed" - Potato, Patato. So what other concerns did I ignore? The main comment about his not being neutral was that the hook failed to point out the traits were not unique to this specific specimens - I think I addressed that. What other specific concerns did I miss? I
1765:
If you are asking whether one characteristic intended to take the mickey is better than another, then I do not. If you are asking whether I think WP:NPOV is more important than the placing of a link to this article on the Main Page, then yes, I do. Doesn't everyone who subscribes to the WP:PILLARS?
1577:
The spin given in the reporting of this self promoting purchase of naming rights was the binomial was the full joke, and yes, it is improper to widow the specific epithet or recognise the species before any authority does. Playing up to this media exercise is pretty distasteful to me, but there is an
1562:
I am as happy to undermine the masked pumpkin as anyone, but the article is about a proposed species, the name has not yet been formally published, it is not proper form to give the species part of a binomial in isolation, and the features chosen to describe the caecilian are clearly a fail of NPOV.
3148:
MPJ-DK, the current hook and your ALTs appear constructed to imply "that Trump is a slimy worm." I make no comment on your intent, or anyone else's, but that is the reason for the concerns here. My ALTs are tweaking this to recognise that the intention of the namer of the species might be to evoke
2768:
Btw. My personal feelings for Mr. Trump have never been publically expressed anywhere, please do not infer any personal beliefs on your part on me, thank you. And I have not actually mentioned the Trumps in the hooks, I mentioned caecilians - the implication that Jr. and the others are caecilians is
1815:
Does the person who posted "Apparently Trump will be alone in the White House for New Year's so running this Jan 1 might help cheer him up, but it looks like everything's queued up for that date already. Another thought would be Jan 3. Anyone have other thoughts re what date would best showcase this
841:
This left me wondering what name had originally been given to the species now called
Australian raven (a pair of words that draws no parallels with 'carrion crow'): if we could clarify that it is the Latin specific name that is similar to that of the carrion crow it might be helpful. Perhaps 'with a
2886:
for ease of location. EdChem's proposals suffer from the fact that it is trying to slap two unrelated facts together to create a hook, not sure why it reintroduced the discussion on "proposed species" and combined it with the physical description. Common DYK issue I've seen repeatedly and seen that
2829:
So, another "wall of text", yet no explanation of what concern was not addressed. You go "Hey this applies to all caecilian, it's not neutral to make it look like it's unique to this thing-a-ma-bob". If it frosts your weiner that I used the term "family" over "genus" that can certainly be replaced,
2754:
That isn't about non-neutrality. It's simply misleading. It relates to the hook's non-neutrality tangentially, in the respect that it reflects the lengths to which the hook's author went to word it in a manner deriding Donald Trump – a goal not furthered by the inclusion of details other than the
2583:
You've conflated separate concerns and ignored others in a manner that seems deliberately rude, dismissive and feignedly obtuse. (Your use of the phrase "wormy, tentacle ridden slimeball" served no apparent purpose other than to mock our concerns by flaunting your disdain for Donald Trump and your
2560:
There we go, the issue that was raised has been resolved - since there is a belief that it mocks The Trump by making it seem like there is only one wormy, tentacle ridden slimeball in the family/genus/whatevs. So it now has 1) genus in the hook 2) is not insinuating that it's a unique feature which
2342:
I get that you have said that. I guess i will rephrase it - Tell me HOW it is against guidelines to put facts cited by reliable third party sources on the Main Page? You guys are the ones suggesting that we put an opinion out there as a fact or give UNDUE weight to the suggestion that it is mocking
2178:
introduced the topic of your motive behind the wording that you selected. You claim that your intent is to "simply describe the organism" and "focus on a straightforward description which may catch the interest of children", despite posting multiple anti-Trump messages on your user page, referring
2013:
to be "cherry-picked". You may think belittling the president of the United States is interesting. I prefer to focus on a straightforward description which may catch the interest of children, for example, who like "yucky" things. The hook implies nothing about a "verified species", and to my memory
1717:
Lay readers will naturally assume that Flores Island "man" had a mouth and two arms, but they lack your ready knowledge of caecilians. We could have used blindness or buries-head-in-sand, I suppose -- there's little else to choose from -- but the time for that was back in the nomination discussion.
1358:
But it is not an introductory date; the sentence in each case starts "Did you know that...", so those
Grammarly articles are irrelevant. The time clause either needs to be totally enclosed in parenthetical commas, or have none: the practice at the moment is to close an unopened parenthetical pair,
1268:
I disagree: DannyS712 is pointing out an unambiguous grammatical error. See my explanation above (DYK current 1 Jan 19) about matching commas either side of adverbial phrases (or omitting both), unless the phrase starts or ends a sentence. Of course the sentence is understandable despite the error,
3581:
emerge before midnight then we can put it straight back in. But in my opinion it is mainly due to your own earlier contributions on this page that the discussion did not succeed in finding a way forward. It was tendentious and borderline trolling. I am glad to see that you are engaging in a better
1859:
are suggesting is POV pushing, that we should not follow the
Knowledge guidelines in this case, that subjects related to Trump should be treated differently is the very definition of NPOV. Artcle and hook is based on cited facts, unlike your attempts to have that be labelled as an "error". Can you
778:. Another user wrote the text you want changed, or reported an issue they see in something you wrote. Everyone's goal should be producing the best Main Page possible. The compressed time frame of the Main Page means sometimes action must be taken before there has been time for everyone to comment.
2655:
I guess it's "2 accusations" and "0 explanations", because I have twice asked what concerns were not addressed? Both of you said I did not address them all, then there was stuff where you guys speculated on my motives for this which I will choose to ignore since neither of you acually know i. You
955:
He was arrested for driving with false number plates. It took some time for him to be identified as the
Yorkshire Ripper, certainly not conclusive on 2nd Jan. Suggest "English serial killer Peter Sutcliffe, the "Yorkshire Ripper", was arrested in Sheffield, initially on a charge of driving with
3117:
has now expressed a clear comment on my proposal, regarding two unrelated facts, I can make a further suggestion. The word "proposed" is necessary for the binomial name as it the new species is not yet officially named. Offering a description of the caecilian is not an unrelated fact, it is an
2253:
According to the
Washington Post it was designed to belittle him, do we want Knowledge to state a WP opinion as an encyclopedic fact? Now granted there are other facts that COULD be used - but this is WP:ERRORS, not WP:IDON'TLIKEIT, so let's deal with the fact that there is no error in the hook.
1934:
I agree with Kevin McE. My personal opinion of Donald Trump notwithstanding, I find this hook highly problematic. (He's also correct that no deadline for reporting problems with the main page's content exists. It's incumbent on the sections' contributors to adhere to
Knowledge's policies and
1784:
that the creature is "slimey", looks like a worm and has tentacles are not neutral? Describing he creature - with citations in the source, seems to be a neutral point of view. That someone outside of
Knowledge decided to name it something is not covered by NPOV, article writers do not represent
1995:
I want
Knowledge's main page to include a neutral statement of the fact that makes the subject noteworthy (in this case, that someone wants to name a proposed species after Donald Trump to belittle him), not a description of the organism – falsely implied to be a verified species, without even
2628:
What concerns were not addressed? I re-read the whole thing after Mr. Levy made the comment above, and I don't see any other issues being raised about "neutrality" was that "it makes it look like only this species has those properties". So that was addressed, please be specific in what other
1942:
As explained in our article, the characteristics described are noteworthy because of an effort to belittle Donald Trump. Omitting that key detail transfers the belittlement from a third party to
Knowledge. Additionally, implying that the species is verified to exist is misleading and adds
1702:
would have been announced as it having "a mouth and two arms". Despite protestations that "we are only reporting facts", the selection of these entirely unremarkable facts can have no motivation other than a desire to belittle the namesake, which I share in any other context, but not in an
2561:
seems to be the basis for suggesting the NPOV nature of the facts. So the complaint here, the "Error" people suggest seem to see is that the hook was presenting a fact it like it was "Unique" and thus not is not "neutral", so I addressed that concern, can we slap 2a or 2b and move on now?
3537:
The discussion above is not achieving much, and has gone beyond the purpose of this page which is to correct simple errors. I have pulled the hook and will reopen the nomination, where proper scrutiny of the various hooks can be be undertaken, with reference to relevant noticeboards (e.g.
1832:
I don't understand. Our president loves to see his name on things, so I thought he would like this. Though I'm not responsible for the choice of last slot -- the "quirky" slot, I believe they call it -- you can see how a species named after a president might be seen as quirky.
3095:? I jus want to be sure since you repeatedly made comments on "above". If this is the thing that did not happen then our conversation is over, we're obviously speaking different languages. And to be clear - I was paraphrasing, not quoting. How am I being obtuse when the hooks
171:
2773:
In one of your suggested hooks, you mentioned the "family" (unlinked), despite the information's applicability to the entire order (caecilians, which you mentioned in a separate hook). Your denial that this was an allusion to Trump's family is beyond the bounds of
1269:
but many of us find grammatical mistakes in text annoying, and generally Knowledge aspires not to include such errors. It would indeed be nice if errors were recognised earlier, but that does not imply that they should be ignored if they are noticed only later.
2362:
I've explained the problem in great detail. Again, factuality alone is insufficient. Context matters too. Information – even if verifiable – mustn't be presented in a manner that misleads readers or assigns undue prominence of placement to certain details
2891:, I made no indication of superiority - unless you think that me saying "these address the concerns" is me saying "these are superior"? And the sarcastic tone is all in your head, it is a shame you did not take my offer to reword either 2a or 2b slightly.
730:
If the error lies primarily in the content of an article linked from the Main Page, fix the problem there before reporting it here. Text on the Main Page generally defers to the articles with bolded links. Upcoming content on the Main Page is usually only
2411:
If someone wants to allege a violation of NPOV, BLP, or some other policy, there are forums that specialise in such issues. It's clear that the discussion here is not making much progress. However, if a less controversial wording is sought, how about:
1098:
Nope: grammatically the subject of the sentence is plural. You could rephrase it as "The Guepe class of submarines was...", when the subject would be singular. As to the original issue of whether to include "the", both versions sound acceptable to me.
73:
3471:
I don't agree that "proposed name" is superfluous information, but my opinion has no more value than anyone else's. Hopefully a consensus can now emerge from the options that are available here. Thanks to all for moving things forward. :)
1894:
is a verified species is misleading, while highlighting characteristics remarkable solely because they tie in to the aforementioned belittlement (without including this information in the hook) is non-neutral, despite the factual basis. (See
2646:, I agree with David about your approach to this, I regard your response and alts as tendentious. Have you considered whether this puerile publicity stunt, that only serves to feed the god-troll himself, is worth digging your heels in over?
1486:
This doesn't really emphasise the surprise element: many countries have multi-representative seats in which it is not odd for members of the same family to compete with each other: here they are with different parties, so they are competing
2803:
Do you assert that a hypothetical violation of Knowledge's policies does't constitute an "error" in the relevant sense? If not, your opinion that none exists in this instance isn't grounds for shutting down a discussion in which others
3207:
EEng and MPJ-DK seem to be maintaining that their intention is only to provide access to information about an animal species, with no political inference or motivation. I trust that they will see no difficulty in that case with:
2071:
Your claims that the hook is intended to "simply describe the organism" and "focus on a straightforward description which may catch the interest of children" would be easier to take at face value if your user page didn't contain
1224:
it is not our style to remove the comma (see above explanation). We also put "the" before the name of a British subject, per British English. The hook should read: "... that in the 1980s, the British physician John R. Seale ..."
1734:
The time for errors, including breaches of the most fundamental principles of Knowledge, is right here. If something should not be in the Main Portal of a major website, no point in time for stopping it is the wrong point.
1075:
is mistaken in that the object here is singular (a single class of submarines) rather than plural (the submarines themselves). The actual error here, IMO, is that the last part of the hook is wrong, but I've raised tat at
1816:
wonderful honor?" on the nomination page really believe (and expect us to believe) that the proposed name of the article's subject and its presence in the "humorous" final slot with unflattering comparison are unrelated?
3269:
That would not intrigue and attract the reader nearly as well, which is the purpose of a hook. Also, this concern that the reader understand that other caecilians are wormlike and so on is misplaced. If a hook said that
2834:. If you prefer to use the term "caecilian" that I had no clue what was over the description from the caecilian article itself to make it more reader-friendly, you could've just said that, I'm all about collaboration.
2865:
At this point, it's difficult to read that as anything other than sarcasm. Please disprove this by evaluating EdChem's proposal, on which you've yet to comment (let lone explain why you regard yours as superior).
956:
false number plates." or "English serial killer Peter Sutcliffe, the "Yorkshire Ripper", was arrested in Sheffield, which eventually brought to an end one of the largest police investigations in British history."
1679:
I agree that the full binomial should be given, and I disagree that describing the physical appearance of this species has any NPOV issues. Also I am starting to need reading glasses but otherwise fully sighted.
2629:
guideline based concerns were brought up? I genuinely do not see any. My interest here is to make sure there is neutrality, had it had ANY other name the hook would have run and not have heard a single peep.
3342:
EngChem's suggestion (that found some support) bu without the two seperate facs being mushed together in accordances with how DKY hooks are normlly constructed. The "Proposed" comment is not something that
2759:
What other specific concerns did I miss? I don't see any other than others pushing the POV that anything related to Trumps should be treated differently than if it was related to any other human being on
2605:. And finally, please do point out what concerns I "rudely" ignored so we can get them addressed, apparently, I missed them in the wall of text above, (and don't worry I will ignore the personal attack).
815:
2750:
So what other concerns did I ignore? The main comment about his not being neutral was that the hook failed to point out the traits were not unique to this specific specimens - I think I addressed that.
2849:
So, another "wall of text", yet no explanation of what concern was not addressed. You go "Hey this applies to all caecilian, it's not neutral to make it look like it's unique to this thing-a-ma-bob"
802:
3180:
So, may I ask (and I direct this comment / question generally rather that at any individual), can we move the focus of this discussion more to the hook and bring the temperature down? Thank you.
25:
2467:
This makes it clear that the description refers to caecilians in general, so it cannot be taken as WP offering any description of its namesake. It makes it clear that we are talking about
2268:
If you're under the impression that alleged violations of Knowledge's policies and guidelines fall outside this page's purview, you're mistaken. Some are among the most serious errors (
976:
1636:
The purpose of a hook is to intrigue the reader into clicking through to the article. For a new species the obvious way to do that is to describe attention-getting physical features.
1168:"that in the 1980s, British physician..." either a comma is needed ("that, in the 1980s, British") or, ideally, the current comma should be removed ("that in the 1980s British...").
2922:
I inferred that you perceived deficiencies of some sort because you proposed additional alternatives instead of expressing approval of EdChem's hook or suggesting revisions thereto.
1395:"that before Andrew L. Lewis became commander of the United States Second Fleet, he flew..." - comma after Fleet should be removed (or, less ideally, a comma should be added -: -->
1005:
Guêpe-class submarines were designed..." not technically an error (I think), but can I suggest removing "the". It sounds weird followed by a plural object in this sentence, IMO --
226:
154:
2523:
So based on comments what make the hook "Not Neutral" is that it does no point out that the description is not unique to the donaldtrumpi: Voila, several options to address that
1126:
Apparently they were made to defend harbours, but not entirely from within. Suggest " that Guêpe-class submarines were solely intended for use in harbor defense?" (per EdChem)
2375:
Again, if that aspect is contested, it can be omitted. I took your concern seriously and suggested alternative wording to address it, so why are you still arguing this point?
3609:
1851:
Since the wikipedian is not responsible for the naming you cannot put that on that person, he could not name it that without the presense of reliable sources to support the
608:
3347:
to be in the hook and I simply deleed words and nothing else. I believe I have now moved past the halfway mark to meet you, as I said 'I am all about collaboration".
2778:"wormy, tentacle ridden slimeball" referred to the caecilians, note the use of the term "genus" (unless you mean to tell me that the Trump family is their own genus?)
787:. Once an error has been addressed or determined not to be an error, or the item has been rotated off the Main Page, the report will be removed from this page. Check
3574:
929:
2979:- yes I agree that was a concern, that is why my suggestions make it clear that it's no unique to that new squiddly thing. QED I did address the misleading part.
3387:
I think that my ALT1d and MPJ-DK's ALT1a-A are very similar, but for some grammatical issues. I recognise that some rearrangements are also possible, such as:
2110:– I'm afraid you're going to have to convince your fellow editors that there's an ERROR in the hook by reference to the hook itself, not to anything about me.
2098:
This information becomes relevant when the characteristics mentioned apply to the entire order. Specifying a single member (verified or not) is misleading. —
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2234:
in particular purely because it evokes an unflattering association with Donald Trump. That's an inappropriate use of DYK. Factuality alone doesn't justify
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English serial killer Peter Sutcliffe, the "Yorkshire Ripper", was arrested in Sheffield, ending one of the largest police investigations in British history.
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that your goal was to "best showcase this wonderful honor", preferably on a day when Trump might see the main page. (And yet, your hook doesn't even
2878:- what didn't happen? I did not provide two alts that made it clear that it was not unique to this one proposed species? I believe they are labelled
2808:
And finally, please do point out what concerns I "rudely" ignored so we can get them addressed, apparently, I missed them in the wall of text above,
1421:
this is not DYK style (see first thread, above). Our goal is to make the hooks easy to read, not run-on sentences, and the comma accomplishes that.
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3659:
albeit with some distinction between 'true prions' and the blue petrel. So that would suggest 'similar to that of other closely-related prions.'
2308:
We get that you'd prefer a different hook, but you didn't answer MPH-DK's fundamental challenge that you identify the ERROR in the approved hook.
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268:::Aw! shatched from the hands of victory, I thought that the most recent comments pushed it towards a consensus. ] (]) 10:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
261:::Aw! shatched from the hands of victory, I thought that the most recent comments pushed it towards a consensus. ] (]) 10:36, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
2812:
The "wall of text" exists because we've been forced to reiterate these points over and over. Doing so again would only increase the wall's size.
2343:
him. So what exact guideline (chapter and verse) is this breaking? I don't see it but I welcome an opportunity to learn and expand my knowledge.
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I'm glad this got some traction. I made some changes to article; objective I hope, I don't know anything about caecilians. I strongly recommend
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I find it quite remarkable that we somehow managed to construct a "wall of text" comprising "0 explanations" of the concerns discussed therein.
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1458:
I've added a comma after "that". Hopefully that both fixes the grammar and helps to keep the hook easy to read per Yoninah's comment. — Martin
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I don't mean to suggest that this is the section's primary purpose. I'm saying that it's a reasonable alternative to presenting information
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Phew wall o text" again. First of "your inference is not my action", quit doing that please. so the "didn't happen" refers to this comment
2379:
So what exact guideline (chapter and verse) is this breaking? I don't see it but I welcome an opportunity to learn and expand my knowledge.
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get a faster response. It is unnecessary, because this page is not protected, and causes display problems because this is not a talk page.
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You guys are the ones suggesting that we put an opinion out there as a fact or give UNDUE weight to the suggestion that it is mocking him.
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2094:
and to my memory most DYKs on organisms don't give their orders and don't comment on their similarity or dissimilarity to other organisms.
2009:
A DYK hook isn't supposed to give "the fact that makes the subject noteworthy". It's supposed to be interesting -- in fact it's very much
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https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Template:Did_you_know&type=revision&diff=876422756&oldid=876390291&diffmode=source
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I linked to a specific policy section repeatedly. (You just mentioned "UNDUE", which appears to suggest that you're aware of this.) —
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1663:, for a confirming set of eyes. (At least I assume he has a pair of eyes; if he's got only one eye, or one working eye, I apologize.)
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It's not grammatically incorrect to have a comma after the introductory date. If anything, it reads better if you do include it. See
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Please quote the message in which someone argued this. (Regardless, thanks for acknowledging that the hook is "related to Trumps".)
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Hooks inconsistent with Knowledge's policies and guidelines constitute errors, provided that the violations aren't deliberate (as I
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I'm afraid you're going to have to convince your fellow editors that there's an ERROR in the hook by reference to the hook itself,
2067:
I prefer to focus on a straightforward description which may catch the interest of children, for example, who like "yucky" things.
1523:
I suggest that "compete against two of his children" would clarify the situation, and thereby indeed make a more intriguing hook.
3604:
772:. Lengthy discussions should be moved to a suitable location elsewhere, such as the talk page of the relevant article or project.
2720:
Had it had any other name (except, perhaps, one intended to belittle someone else), the hook wouldn't even have been written. —
2332:(I've included the word "alleged" to avoid implying that I regard Kevin's assertion – with which I agree – as a matter of fact.)
2215:
Agreed. We simply need to avoid misleading readers. Do you oppose identifying the organism as a proposed species in the hook?
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the "honor", instead focusing on characteristics that are entirely mundane outside their unflattering association with Trump).
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1979:
The approved hook simply describes the organism. Instead you want Knowledge's main page to highlight belittlement of Trump?
1766:
Is there a blurb to be made that is not intended to poke fun? (I have clarified point as point in time if that helps you).
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2014:
most DYKs on organisms don't give their orders and don't comment on their similarity or dissimilarity to other organisms.
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measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles like all other members of its family?
1970:
This conveys the basic information for which the subject is notable without actively taking part in the disparagement. —
2857:, while simultaneously complaining about my refusal to continue reiterating explanations that you've ignored repeatedly.
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what didn't happen? I did not provide two alts that made it clear that it was not unique to this one proposed species?
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My only disdain is for people using the errors page to get on their soapbox about something that is demonstratively
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No, it is not an error, and we do add "the" to most European hooks, such as British physicians and German sopranos.
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In the photo caption, "New Horizons" should be italicized. And it's a bit wordy; I think it should be cut down to "
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measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles like all other members of its
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In this instance, the "common name" refers to a proposed species that hasn't even been confirmed to exist. What
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Aw! shatched from the hands of victory, I thought that the most recent comments pushed it towards a consensus.
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3093:"Hey this applies to all caecilian, it's not neutral to make it look like it's unique to this thing-a-ma-bob"
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I can't parse that last bit, but it sounds like you'd like to switch to the burying of the head in the sand?
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that may be the case, but it is grammatically incorrect. See my full explanation in the first thread above --
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Criticism of a user's on-wiki conduct and its interference with productive discourse ≠ a personal attack. —
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that Dimyati Natakusumah is set to compete with two of his children in the 2019 Indonesian general election?
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An indirect reference; a hint; a reference to something supposed to be known, but not explicitly mentioned.
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concerns in this section, but it seems to be more palpable than my suggestion and thus is a-okay with me.
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I think that naming a proposed species after him is interesting, irrespective of the underlying rationale.
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Tell me HOW it is against guidelines to put facts cited by reliable third party sources on the Main Page?
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To be clear, I'm not advocating such wording. I'm pointing out that the description has been applied to
2114:– RSs refer to the organism by the name we're using; there's no "official approval" we have to wait for.
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A species name presented without qualification strongly implies the existence of an established species.
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that donaldtrumpi measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles
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3177:. Also, I think your version ALT1c was preferable to my ALT1a and ALT1b, so I have struck them.
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your grammatical fixes are not errors, and should be discussed when the hooks are still in prep.
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Withdraw you alternatives if you want it resolved, they are not addressing the concerns raised.
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unless you think that me saying "these address the concerns" is me saying "these are superior"?
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measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles, like all
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measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles, like all
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do either of you have any objection o the most recently "non-MPJ" suggested hook "... that a
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Admin Maile66 made this change based on my report at WT:DYK before the hook set went live.
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2082:. Is that purely coincidental and unrelated to your magnanimous effort to educate youths?
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mentioning its order or explaining that all of its members share these characteristics –
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The hook doesn't ascribe the characteristics appropriately (i.e., to the order to which
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exist is an external entity's effort to belittle Donald Trump, so it's neutral to state
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And it breaks the "easter egg" issue that DYK ususally go out of their way to avoid.
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As noted above, that never happened. You've contradicted something that I explained
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measures about 10 centimetres (4 inches) and looks like a slimy worm with tentacles?
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had it had ANY other name the hook would have run and not have heard a single peep.
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image of Ultima Thule". (If the apostrophe is kept, it needs another S as well per
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3489:- if that's what most people get behind then I'll drop my objection to this part.
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all caecilians possess a pair of tentacles located between their eyes and nostrils
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We absolutely don't have to wait for formal publication; RSs are abundant on this.
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Did you overlook the first portion of my reply? I'll excerpt a relevant phrase:
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with a species name highlighting its similarity to the carrion crow (C. corone).
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beginning 24 hours before its scheduled appearance. Before that period, you can
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3155:, FYI, I read MPJ's mention of family as a reference to its meaning within the
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ridicule of Donald Trump and/or his family, which appears to be your intent. —
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to use the term "Spineless amphibian"? if not then we may have ALT2c lined up.
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A DYK hook isn't supposed to give "the fact that makes the subject noteworthy".
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are helpful, especially when reporting an obscure factual or grammatical error.
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MPJ-DK, I'm going to sue you for stealing all the points I was about to make.
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problematic than the original hook. I've also endorsed EdChem's proposal. —
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I've inserted an opening comma and prepended "the" to "British physician". —
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we wouldn't rush to graft on the fact that da Vinci designed other chapels.
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I was referring to the statement quoted directly above the text in question.
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it is a shame you did not take my offer to reword either 2a or 2b slightly.
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You may think belittling the president of the United States is interesting.
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in a manner intended to evoke unflattering comparisons to a living person.
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that Guêpe-class submarines were designed to operate solely inside harbors
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This seems like an elegant solution. I prefer 1b or the use of dashes:
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To quote my wife on many, many occasions "What are you talking about?"
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If you regard the belittlement aspect as contested, it can be omitted:
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encyclopaedia that proclaims itself as having a neutral point of view.
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is what happened the last time I reported this - the comma was removed
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is a small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles like all other
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Indeed, it's supposed to be cherry-picked to be interesting. That
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3011:(my emphasis) is pretty clearly talking about that thinga-ma-jig.
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explanation that is needed if readers aren't going to click on
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Sure enough, you described the deficiencies that you perceived
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on you and not me, I did not make such a un-neutral statement .
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the hook doesn't say or imply these characteristics are unique.
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notes that it's up to personal preference in cases like these.
3327:... that small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles, is
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I don't agree that "proposed name" is superfluous information
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That Alt I can totally support - even if it does not address
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anyone's specific point of view but just describe the facts.
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the interest of maintaining the encyclopedia's integrity? —
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that they aren't deliberate) that the main page can contain.
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to the description's trimming as "good news for Donald" in
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It was certainly an oversight on my part to omit the genus.
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below, over other options, with a personal preference for
2500:– a small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles – is
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Specifying a single member (verified or not) is misleading
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It's supposed to be interesting -- in fact it's very much
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on others to intervene before their discussions conclude.)
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All caecilians are limbless, and therefore wormlike, and "
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Latin species name...', or pipe-linking 'species name' to
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Knowledge does not prefer any national variety of English.
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describe the blue petrel as a prion, as does the article
2429:, a small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles, is
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alleged violations of Knowledge's policies and guidelines
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Template:Did you know nominations/Dermophis donaldtrumpi
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issue pointed out in many hook reviews. And I suggested
2791:) A person who is slimy, that is, sneaky or underhanded.
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characteristics intended to evoke negative associations.
2734:
You say "Conflated", I say "addressed" - Potato, Patato.
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desire to place it on display on Knowledge's main page.)
2454:(a small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles) is
2339:
is true in this instance). 04:59, 2 January 2019 (UTC)
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would be easier to take at face value if your user page
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to evoke negative associations with a living person. —
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For general discussion about the Main Page, please use
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strives for writing common to all varieties of English
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I've outlined my neutrality concerns in great detail.
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I await your citation of the scientific meaning of "
2816:(and don't worry I will ignore the personal attack).
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those that cast a negative light on living persons).
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The hook implies nothing about a "verified species",
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there's no "official approval" we have to wait for.
1946:I suggest a hook along the lines of the following:
793:for a record of any discussion or action taken; no
2199:RSs refer to the organism by the name we're using;
1868:board? Not your POV but guideline related errors.
702:An exact quotation of the text in question helps.
353:Please post error reports regarding only what is
3700:
3521:small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles
3458:small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles
3428:small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles
3403:small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles
3131:small, slimy, worm-like amphibian with tentacles
2957:I've stated unambiguously that I regard them as
420:content currently or imminently on the Main Page
1943:additional weight to the non-neutral statment.
3635:similar to that of the closely-related prion.
3272:the Chapel of St. X was designed by da Vinci
391:have already been discussed here at length:
2941:And the sarcastic tone is all in your head,
2203:Agreed. At no point have I argued that we
1071:Yoninah is correct, this is not an error.
425:
389:national variations of the English language
3249:is small, slimy, worm-like, and tentacled?
2937:I think that it's you feigning obtuseness.
2746:concern and deemed the former "addressed".
410:comparison of American and British English
3644:, so prion would need to be pluralised.
2673:, "guys wanna take my freeze peach" …?
14:
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3640:There are 6 species within the genus
2918:, I made no indication of superiority
728:Can you resolve the problem yourself?
422:, use the appropriate section below.
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314:Revision as of 10:48, 2 January 2019
163:Revision as of 10:48, 2 January 2019
100:Revision as of 10:40, 2 January 2019
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2055:in which I used the term above.
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1300:You added this comma back in (
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1:
3675:Errors in the summary of the
2286:is a proposed new species of
1957:is a proposed new species of
1643:Adding the genus we now have
1578:error that needs correcting.
1330:does not refute any of this.
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2861:I'm all about collaboration.
1396:"that, before Andrew...") --
739:and fix any issues yourself.
28:Browse history interactively
7:
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3542:) as appropriate. — Martin
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3173:and the family is actually
3122:to find out what it means.
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2238:prominence of placement. —
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604:Commons media protection
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2977:It's simply misleading
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1953:Dermophis donaldtrumpi
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1537:Tweaked as suggested.
1320:this Grammarly article
733:protected from editing
673:It is currently 17:54
418:To report an error in
3709:Main Page discussions
3005:all other members of
2830:that is why it was a
2496:for a new species of
2450:for a new species of
2425:for a new species of
844:Binomial nomenclature
776:Respect other editors
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1961:, named to belittle
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790:the revision history
748:edit fully-protected
307:===DYK after next===
300:===DYK after next===
3157:taxonomic structure
2876:that never happened
2112:established species
761:(See the bottom of
700:Where is the error?
681:Purge the Main Page
397:Although Knowledge
18:Knowledge:Main Page
3582:way now. — Martin
2188:explicitly stating
706:Offer a correction
623:General discussion
563:admin instructions
442:September 21, 2024
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3444:: ... that
3113:Given that
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996:DYK current
939:On this day
870:In the news
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548:In the news
227:Next edit →
42:Next edit →
3690:FL current
3642:Pachyptila
3625:POTD today
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3610:Errors in
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3224:caecilians
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3035:David Levy
2995:David Levy
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2916:alternates
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2868:David Levy
2832:suggestion
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2100:David Levy
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987:after next
936:tomorrow's
930:Errors in
867:Errors in
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718:Time zones
712:References
609:Associated
582:discussion
558:discussion
553:candidates
359:imminently
217:→DYK next
145:→DYK next
3661:Kevin McE
3514:Kevin McE
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3247:caecilian
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3214:... that
3166:Dermophis
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2740:conflated
2567:caecilian
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2227:belongs).
2205:shouldn't
1959:caecilian
1949:... that
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1334:Anarchyte
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1296:Anarchyte
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1128:Kevin McE
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1007:DannyS712
958:Kevin McE
945:OTD today
909:— Martin
887:Modulus12
848:Kevin McE
831:TFA today
797:are kept.
592:BotErrors
433:Yesterday
363:Main Page
355:currently
328:WP:ERRORS
320:Shortcuts
237:Line 232:
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112:Kevin McE
3703:Category
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2744:separate
2270:assuming
2045:supposed
2011:supposed
1897:WP:UNDUE
1606:Pinging
1390:DYK next
883:MOS:POSS
795:archives
447:Tomorrow
190:contribs
122:contribs
66:Wikitext
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3540:WT:NPOV
3452:is the
3325:ALT1a-A
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979:current
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818:today's
737:be bold
655:History
643:Sandbox
361:on the
335:WP:MP/E
206:125,922
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1001:"that
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