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that makes a treatment of his role in the movement so difficult to write about, or at least do justice to. A pat entry would be something to the effect of "BD wrote a number of protest songs such as X,Y & Z, which became anthems of the civil rights movement." which I think we agree, does little to get to the heart of the matter. Like you, I find little outright, straight-forward protest in many of the songs (e,g, "Blowin in the Wind"), and many of the songs are too artful and literate, with too much going on, too much abstract imagery and poetry, to really say "this is a song about civil rights/war, etc." I mean, what exactly could one say that "wind" is actually protesting against? i think it's pretty hard to say conclusively that it's anti-anything in particular (The whole question of what exactly constitutes a protest song is a fascinating one - and one which is not particularly approached in the given article.) And i've always sort of found the nuclear fear which many people read into "Hard rain" to be a bit shoe-horned into the actual song itself, etc. however, for better or worse, Dylan is one of the key figures in the whole thing, and he has to be there, so i'd just like it to be a realistic portrayal, and not the commonly-accepted/parsed view of the issue. and as most people browsing the encyclopedia will probably link between the Bob Dylan and protest articles, it would be great if they could be somehow consistent. anyhow, a few protesty things that could maybe be agreed upon?:
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album personnel. I could and would include that information myself so that I can give it the "B" which is the highest assessment we can give, but then I wouldn't be able to assess it.Ā :) Since I seem to be one of the very few members of that project who is assessing album articles at this point in time, that might mean it goes without assessment. As I indicated at the talk page, I'm more than happy to re-evaluate it if that technical limitation is overcome. I'm watching your talkpage for now in case you'd like to discuss this further. If you choose to respond but not within the next couple of days, please just drop me a note at my talk page, and I'll be happy to take it up there. Cheers. --
837:. But as you have said it takes several weeks to fix up an article. I also have some non-Dylan-related Knowledge projects I am slowly working away at. Ah, at times it is frustrating and overwhelming how many "bad" articles there are on Knowledge, and how much work it takes a single person to fix each one up, but it is really satisfying to see an article improve bit by bit and turn into something good. Well, good luck to both of us, and I will keep in touch about our ongoing "Dylan improvement" project. Take care!
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hardly a fitting tribute to or investigation of Dylan's massive and significant contribution to this genre. I know
Christmas is coming up, but I though I would ask if you have any interest, as your contributions to the Dylan page are always fantastic, well-referenced and right on the money. In any case, maybe you at least have some comments on how such a thing should be approached? thanks as always, and merry Christmas!
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implications, we might be better off. Also, the back and forth about whether he was Jewish, and bending it around into that his parents were Jewish is absurd too. He was Jewish, he was
Christian for a time, he came back to Judaism - by all accounts. Not likely he went through anything formal, but that's what I'd look into if I were so inclined (like his autobiogs). Hard to argue with zealots.
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section and a couple of other bits and pieces. When I get to the adding more information stage I may ask for your advice; looking ahead, I'm not sure yet how much/little to talk about the unreleased songs, and, assuming I don't list all of them, deciding which ones to talk about. But anyway, I'm not at that stage yet, and it may become clearer to me as I progress.
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his relationship with Seeger & Guthrie, and the huge influence they had on his art, places him very firmly in the
American protest-folk tradition of the early 20th century, however little these influences might have manifested themselves directly in his lyrics (always felt Dylan belongs much more
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Lets hope. I feel like I've found the Holy Grail of Bob Dylan religious conversion argument sources- it includes, essentially, all the things which were missing in previous sources. Hopefully, both sides of the argument will be satisfied with this/these. Thanks for your encouragement and your support
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I'm bowing out of that fracas for now - just so you know, my point was not coming from a "we must protect christianity" POV - the other editor seems to have a hobby horse in this but if I do, it's absolutely not that one at all. But I think if we avoided the word "conversion" since it is loaded with
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has even more power. Because of this we must uphold strict protocols before approving a new applicant. Regretfully, I have chosen to decline your application at this time. The reason for this is that not enough mainspace edits. Please note it is nothing personal by any means, and we certainly welcome
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Hi.Ā :) I've responded at the article's talk page to your request for an assessment of this article. I just wanted to drop you a personal note to say that the assessment in no way accurately reflects the quality of the article, but is due to the technicality that it does not include information about
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You've not actually edited the article since that bot's visit, so I'm assuming you're going by the preview window. That doesn't actually show categories (for some reason that's by no means clear to me). Just go ahead and try adding them. If you have any more trouble, I'll do my best to help out.
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my strategy has to been to first make sure that everything that's in there is cited, and then after everything is cited I am going to look more at the article as a whole and see what parts can be fleshed out/smoothed over/moved/etc. So far I have citations for most of the info except the Dwarf Music
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article is right now very un-NPOV and not refernced either. I really don't think there needs to be a list of every track recordedāinstead, an external link could be provided to one of the websites that lists and discusses every track. But again, there is a lot of overlap between the two subjects and
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Hi Mick, hope your'e well. I was wondering if you could shed any light on Dylan being billed as "Son of Jack
Elliott" in Jack's article. I have never heard of, or seen this, anywhere other than in this article. Someone has linked it to a "source", but what was this - a flyer, poster outside a coffee
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Yeah - I'm pretty much convinced by your last edit, and I disassociate myself from the rants - my point is moot if there is independent characterization of it as a conversion, which your source seems to be. Haven't looked for this, but do we talk about his return to
Judaism? Basically old Bob likes
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Hi, Mick gold. Thanks a lot for all the advice. I'm pretty busy these days too but as you say if I don't take the initiative it's possible no one else will. I'll see what I can do and try to fit in some time over the next few weeks or so. By the way, no one else has given any votes for our proposal
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article is not terrible but it isn't referenced at all, which really takes away from its quality. From your Heylin and Marcus quotes in the other discussion we had, I know you have some sources you could use to reference it, and I have some good sources too. It's kind of an overwhelming project for
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he rather forcefully distanced himself from the protest movement - i always thought it was interesting how people then thought that "protest" and "folk" were synonymous, that by turning his back on one he was turning his back on both. i feel he abandoned "protest" (or tried to point out that it had
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Footnotes; I dig. Should really have taken a closer look, but it seemed like a totally soulless and arbitrary list (lists are a pet peeve of mine on
Knowledge; I try to work on the protest songs page sometimes, but most people just contribute lists of protest songs, which does not an article make),
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and i'll ask her to check things over when I'm done. It's a big task so I'll be doing this over a week or so. Some citations aren't good quality reliable resources (expectingrain.com for example). The beautiful thing about Dylan is that there are people writing quality published articles about him
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Yeah sorry i didn't make this obvious! I meant the formatting of the referencing is all over the place (in terms of placement/order of details, italicisation, "quotations" for titles or not etc). Do you want me to have a look or can you do that sort of thing too? I recommend perhaps a FA review or
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anyway, i've some more thoughts on the matter, but have to go now. your comments on my discussion page have already been hugely helpful, i'll try to formulate them into text as soon as i've the chance, but if you've anymore ideas in the meantime i'd love to hear them. and if you'd like to make any
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I guess you mean "why no userpage?" Well i'm still pretty new, though I read the wiki rules out of boredom years ago. I suppose I like the idea that people might think I'm a bad editor just because i don't have a user page! Maybe when i think of something useful that could go there i'll make one.
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Hi Mick, thanks a million for your post; extremely well-thought out and insightful, I'm sorry I haven't had time to get back to you before now but I have also been a bit busy over the
Christmas/New Year period. It's exactly that ambiguous nature with which Dylan treats the genre of "protest song"
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Thank you for rescuing me, Mick! I had gone through the whole "Relocation to NY" section, trying to improve the phrasing, as well as I could. I believe I had done an ok job mostly. That bit about
Carolyn Hester and John Hammond gave me trouble: a lot of info squeezed into two run-on sentences. I
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series will provide much information and act as a source too. I think the article so far is pretty good. It's length could be a problem because I think we could be more concise; spinning off more in-depth information into separate articles (like electric controversy and album articles etc) where
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page with all the citations you've added. That helps the article quite a bit. There's still a fair amount of uncited information, though. When I get a chance I will go through it and see what I can do. Maybe some of the uncited information can be replaced with other relevant, cited information.
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is quite well-written and accurate, but the info has not been sourced. I'm sure that you could make a good start, and if you write an entry on the Bob Dylan Talk page appealing for help, others might join you. Which brings me to my last point. You seem to be a serious editor and yet you haven't
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page, as it currently just gives the information that "Bob Dylan produced a number of landmark songs such as "Blowin' in the Wind" (1962), "Masters of War" (1963), "Talking World War III Blues" (1963), and "The Times They Are A-Changin'" (1964)." and has a little basic info on "The
Hurricane" -
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article to the current featured article standards. Now you've got one barnstar already for this, so I thought I'd give you this one, which "may be awarded to those who work tirelessly and endlessly on the more laborious or repetitive of
Knowledge tasks". Believe me, I know how laborious and
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what the sentence says. However, you can do it on a fact by fact basis with cites mid-sentence if you think it's more clear. I don't think either way is wrong per se. Also, sorry but I won't be able to help out in the next few days as I've got a lot of other things to do. All the best.
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years ago, but loaned it out and of course, as per, it was never returned. It's the one where Dylan speaks to Shelton whilst on tour if I'm not mistaken - I'll have to lay my hands on another copy! Once again thanks for your time and trouble and for your prompt response. Best wishes,
1075:. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are
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I was actually on the lookout for the original "Behind the Shades" and "Wanted Man: In search of Bob Dylan". If you aren't in actual possession of the books which you've mentioned, I'll take a look at them and see if there are helpful parts which I can transcribe.
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Hi Mick - most American Jews have Eastern European origins and their language was Yiddish, so many of their "Jewish" names are actually Yiddish not Hebrew. Zushe sounds like Yiddish to me, but I don't have a source, so I'm ok with saying Hebrew for now. Cheers
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it's probably more true to say that his songs were adopted by the movement rather than being written for it (however, one or two exceptions such as "Masters of War', "Oxford Town", "Hattie Carroll" could be argued to be actual "protest songs" - whatever they
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Hi, Mick gold. Wow, I didn't realize when I was discussing with you that you were a Barnstar contributorācongratulations, that is a great achievement! Well, I was wondering whether you would be interested in helping me to clean up
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Looks good to me. Sorry for my delay in getting back to you. Real life is keeping me busier than I would like right now! Thanks for all your efforts to source the material and quell editorial controversy on the page. Best Regards,
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to this tradition than to that of his contemporaries; that he agreed with the former's emphasis on realistic social injustices rather than the latter's abstract notions of "love and peace", but that's always open to debate)
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are good starting points. And then you start re-working the material with footnotes. (If you do not make a start, it is possible no-one else will. "The journey of a thousand miles begins with one footstep," as Chairman
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articles be merged, but I have gotten no response from anyone to that proposal. But both articles are a mess as far as I'm concerned, and could be merged into one really good concise, well-referenced article. Right now
1035:. It's one of the more anal sides of wikipedia but the fact is sometimes the links break and without the right info it's quite hard to find them again. There's a user who looks at referencing on the peer reviews:
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Within 30 minutes we both added that the Gawain manuscript is in the British Library. I think you should have reverted my addition rather than yours: yours was better! It's suprising what escapes the FA process.
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registered as a User and acquired a Talk page. This is useful. This is where people may leave messages and suggestions for you. In the same way that you've left a message on mine. best wishes
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I thinke the wording self descibed atheist works ok. Feel free to put it back or expierment with it. I just take exception to Flora's insistence that he believed in god or a higher power......
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Keep up the great work on the Dylan stuff, it's stuff like that that's the real strength of Knowledge. A normal encyclopedia couldn't be half as detailed on those articles. I'm working on
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I agree that it'd be great if we could slowly but surely get more of the Dylan-related articles up to snuff. I would like to at some point tackle some of the other album articles, such as
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Oh, it was nothing. I'm very stubborn, and I never drop out of an argument, so that kept me going during the transcription (If only I had that stamina and commitment in college...).
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article could be merged into the other. Well, let me know if you are interested in helping, or possibly if you can suggest anyone else I might try asking. Thank you very much.
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Unfortunately, I'm busy with work right now. I don't have time to do a major re-write. It's not too difficult. You just need 1 or 2 good reference books: Heylin's
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articles myself at the moment, quite bizarre in that the articles tend to consist of edits just by me and various bots. Hope they're useful to someone someday!
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never been his mandate to begin with) and re-imagined folk on his three electric albums... however, all this is neither hear nor there, just thinking out loud.
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to try different things out, I think, and probably is vastly amused at these arguments, if he's aware. I haven't read Chronicles yet -it's on my list though!
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I fully agree, I've left a note on Jack's talk page to see what transpires. If nothing is forthcoming, I'll remove the claim - does that sound fair? Cheers,
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the reference. Good luck with making improvements, and be sure to remind the nominator that he should also be addressing the issues where possible! Cheers.
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house, Chapter? I don't know. As I'm sure you know, Dylan's first major N.Y. "Concert" was 12 April 1963 - I have a replica of the poster which reads thus:
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possible. However, Dylan's body of work is vast, so it is logical that the article reflects this. Looking forward to improving things with your help!
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peer review after this as older FA standards were not as strict and i imagine the article will be improved in numerous respects. What do you think?
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Thank you for your interest in VandalProof, Mick gold! You have now been added to the list of authorized users, so if you haven't already, simply
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3. The artists who recorded the songs: The Byrds, The Band, Julie Driscoll, Manfred Mann etc. Plus the 'official' album release from CBS in 1975.
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repetitive retroactively inserting references can be, especially in an article as long as the Dylan one. You really do deserve this.
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Hi Mick, thanks very much for your reply, I really appreciate it. That one has been bugging me for ages! The funny thing is, I had
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article. I would be greatful if you would please have a look, and if you can improve it, then by all means please do. Cheers!
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Hi Mick, thanks for the message - I'm using the paperback edition, by all means subsitute for the hardback edition. Best,
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Hi there. I've done the job for you Mick. Think it's not the "complete" personnel but it looks fine to me. And good job!
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article, so presumably no one has any objections. Do you know what I have to do to proceed with that? Thanks again.
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Hmm, I just remembered I forgot to congratulate and thank you for your extremely valuable work in helping bring the
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his performance at the march on washington with baez, amid king et al. does place him firmly in the thick of things
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week in week out; finding a good source should be relatively easy. I'm confident that now, and in the future, the
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Hi Mick. i was wondering if you might be interested in helping me expand the Bob Dylan section on the
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Thank you for the very good sort-out of the monstrosity which was the "list of 800 countries in which
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but once the info's there I'm cool with it. however, apologies for ballsing up the references list.
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article, but I don't have time to do it on all the Dylan-associated articles. For example, I think
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Hi Mick, "Paranoid" was never included in the title when it was released on the withdrawn copy of
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have to admit I struggled, and knew I had left that bit only half fixed. I think you got it
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I would be very grateful for any light you may be able to shed on this matter. Cheers,
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one person to tackle, but if two people went at it, it'd be all the easier. Yeah, and
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I'd seen some of that before! I'm fine thanks, hope all's well with you. Best wishes,
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Thanks for making that edit. You did a better job than I would have done. Good Job.
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P.S. Thanks for the link to the Dylan talk page, I remember agreeing with you now!
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the
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Excellent. Welcome to the wacky and endlessly murky world of categorisation!
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studio version was titled: "Talkin' John Birch Society Blues." Best wishes,
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and the time period, so I will see what I can do with that when I have time.
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can and should be merged. It makes no sense to have 2 articles. As you say,
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Hi Mick gold, how's it going? Thanks for your words of encouragement. For
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contributions directly to the article, well that would be spiffing! peace
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2. The recording sessions: what is known about the 107 (?) songs recorded
167:. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me or any other
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in this dispute, and thanks for your contribution of source material. --
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1. The background - the motorbike crash and re-grouping in Woodstock
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Sorry to be a ball-ache but remember to place the fullstop/comma
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Hi, I moved the references at the end so that the citations
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138:. I'll approve you considering you're only 7 off nowĀ :)
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is terrible. It could be structured around 4 sections:
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article. A while back I posted a suggestion that the
464:Yes, good edit! Thanks for your help Mick. Cheers,
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download and install VandalProof from our main page
396:Tickets $ 3. $ 2.75. $ 2.50 On Sale at Box Office.
1031:I've just started work on fixing the citations,
105:Thank you for your interest in VandalProof.
235:Hi, I have replied on the your message on
296:I think the new NYTimes quotes, added by
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947:Thanks, Sillyfolkboy- why no Talk Page?
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540:Hi Mick, tag gone! Really good job, I
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822:has quite a bit of information about
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699:Hi, Moisejp. Yes, I agree with you.
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567:is still read"!Ā :) Much much
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91:Thank you for applying for
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1079:. Reviewers' concerns are
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729:The Genuine Basement Tapes
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1067:has been nominated for a
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103:you to apply again soon.
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711:article is not bad, and
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443:Mick, I've amended the
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136:This page will tell you
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253:Dylan and 'born again'
237:Wikiproject Karnataka.
121:We generally say 250.
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1087:I replied at mine. ā
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374:"Son of Jack Elliott"
304:) earlier comment on
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190:The Worker's Barnstar
42:of past discussions.
392:FRI. EVE. APRIL 12th
239:Hope this helps. --
835:John Wesley Harding
398:No mention of Jack.
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18:User talk:Mick gold
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389:AT TOWN HALL
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307:my talk page
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158:VandalProof!
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93:VandalProof!
90:
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37:
1221:This is an
1012:referencing
969:Tim Buckley
508:just right.
394:AT 8:30 PM.
177:Computerjoe
156:Welcome to
140:Computerjoe
123:Computerjoe
108:Computerjoe
100:1.3 version
84:Application
82:VandalProof
36:This is an
1185:John Birch
1042:chronicles
818:Shelton's
511:Hult041956
1257:ArchiveĀ 3
1252:ArchiveĀ 2
1246:ArchiveĀ 1
1195:withdrawn
1065:Bob Dylan
1010:Bob Dylan
949:Mick gold
877:cats for
762:Mick gold
753:Bob Dylan
546:Lion King
466:Lion King
449:Lion King
432:Lion King
425:Lion King
418:Lion King
404:Lion King
386:BOB DYLAN
312:Knulclunk
215:Bob Dylan
169:moderator
72:ArchiveĀ 3
67:ArchiveĀ 2
61:ArchiveĀ 1
680:I think
571:better.
383:Presents
1224:archive
1141:support
1109:Realist
1104:Ping ā
1092:Realist
864:Thincat
839:Moisejp
785:Moisejp
686:Moisejp
639:Warchef
601:Warchef
526:Warchef
359:C.Logan
348:C.Logan
326:Cleo123
181:'s talk
144:'s talk
127:'s talk
112:'s talk
39:archive
1123:before
857:Gawain
243:Naveen
298:Patsw
80:Your
16:<
1203:talk
1176:talk
1150:talk
1131:talk
1081:here
1077:here
1051:talk
1023:talk
1000:talk
994:Tvoz
977:talk
967:and
965:Jeff
953:talk
938:talk
906:talk
902:Alai
891:talk
887:Alai
868:talk
843:talk
833:and
789:talk
766:talk
703:and
690:talk
665:and
643:talk
628:are)
605:talk
590:page
577:talk
569:much
550:talk
542:knew
310:. --
286:talk
280:Tvoz
267:talk
261:Tvoz
96:(VP)
1060:FAR
986:FYI
749:Mao
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