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One of the problems here is that the "big picture" is highly complex. If we were dealing with
Michelangelo, the list would be short and simple. If we were dealing with Raphael, the list would be much longer but also fairly simple. In the case of Leonardo, the indentity and attribution of his works is
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In the list of paintings by attribution, based on Ottino's research, I count 6 or 7 different "grades" of authenticity. Obviously this navbox can't reflect the complexity of the big picture. Sooo, I've marked every painting between "grade" 3 ("Accepted attrbution") and 5/6 ("Disputed") as simply
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is the problem. The template is not simply a set of links. It is also a stand-alone source of information which purports to give a list of
Leonardo's works. That list of itself must not be misleading. If any student wants a list of Leonardo's works, they will take then straight off your
451:
You claim
Leonardo invented "The Robot"! What he built was an Automatum of a type that was not original. Impressive perhaps, but he didn't invent it. remove it from the list. I can't remember what the other thing is, but to say he invented the robot is far fetched, and inaccurate.
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What you have created here is something less than useless. It's less than useless because it tries to put into a few boxes things which are very complex, and therefore gives a very false impression! I have already said something very similar.
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Per Amanda's suggestion, I've introduced an "Early works-Mature works-Recent attributions" structure to the
Paintings section, replacing that awful mess that was there was before. My main aim was to give a sense of chronolgy which the
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as in "Virgin of the Rocks". All this stuff is made clear in the list in main article. It has been carefully researched and fully cited. The information is there for you to use. What is written in the template must be accurate, of
528:, obviously for the same reason as I deleted the single word "Robot" under the heading of "Inventions". Regardless of how accurate the info in the wiki-page might be, the info in the template itself was patent nonsense.
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I am confused. All of those articles that you removed were articles that talked about
Leonardo's possible input into those works. And the robot link actually linked to Leonardo's robot not robots in general.
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There is, as I have pointed out, a very big difference between
Leonardo painting a dog (or fish) in another artist's picture, and Leonardo composing and painting 95% of a masterpiece, with the assistance of
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the Virgin of the Rocks pictures, also include the cartoon of the Virgin and Child and St Anne, marking it clearly as a drawing. Label two works that are unfinished. Don't include anything that is "lost".
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Can I suggest that you add the categories "Lost works" and "Juvenile works". The smaller predella
Annunciation in the Uffizi belongs in the "Juvenile works", along with the Tobias and the
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Moreover, there is also a vast difference between an attribution that almost every art historian agrees with, and a claim made by one person. But you have lumped them altogether.
557:. Where the work is not fully bbe Leonardo, there needs to bbe a statement as to the other artist. Where the other artist is the major contributor, this should be made clear.
484:
art historian suggests
Leonardo might have painted the fish (and the dog). There is no concensus of opinion about this. I removed "Robot". He didn't invent the robot.
480:
I just removed the "Medusa". No Medusa by
Leonardo still exists. I removed "Leda and the Swan". Everyone knows that they are all student copies. I removed "Tobias".
604:: "Dreyfus Madonna", attrib., "Annunciation" predella, attrib., "Tobias....", assisting Verrocchio, attrib., "Baptism of Christ", in collaboration with Verrocchio.
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are you on about? Although it is probable that soemone cut it down, and over-cleaned it, there is no suggestion that he painted it with another artist.
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Lost works have been kept in the main list, but are clearly marked as being such. Again, I plead 'chronology': I think a separate category for
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links to a general page and has a pic by a student of
Michelangelo, based on a drawing by Michelangelo. That is, of itself, confusing.
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necessarily can't do. The final category is outside the chronology to emphasise that these last works are still shaky attributions.
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et al would fail to show how they fit into his oeuvre. I wanted to avoid the meaningless atomisation of the last version.
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the kind of phrasing you get in captions in art books or on museum labels, and therefore I should think it's acceptable.
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448:] article, which already contains the information in as accurate form as I can make it, with a good deal of research.
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content on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, you can edit the template attached to this page, or visit the
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Leonardo has large important commission. He is assisted, with rocky background, gilding etc by two workshop artists.
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Verrocchio got his best pupil (Leonardo) to collaborate and paint a significant part of a picture he was working on.
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610:(I would leave out "the entirely by Leonardo" bit, unless you want to go into lengthy discussion) Include here
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It's not the links that are the problem. It's the template itself. I notice that another editor has changed
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a student addition, to one of Leonardo's most accomplished paintings the London "Virgin of the Rocks".
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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620:: Ginevra, Woman with the ermine, Madonna with the vase of flowers (Munich), Belle Ferroniere etc
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Just a few notes to explain my recent edit, which mostly follows Amandajm's suggestions above:
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But you have lumped all these together as Leonardo and other hands. It includes eveything from
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List the "Dreyfus Madonna", even though it's a red link. I'll write a little monograph on it.
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on the Leonardo page, you'll see why you can't put everything in three boxes.
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template....Where it clearly showed Leonardo as the inventor of "the robot"!!
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I just found the Mona Lisa in a box that say "Leonardo and other artists.
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Verrocchio painted a picture and got a student (Leonardo) to add a dog,
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an extremely complex matter, and your template fails to reflect that.
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like the painting thought to be behind the wall in the church? --
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Please don't do this! It is misleading, to say the very least.
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I groan at the fact that this has been tagged onto the
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632:: Battle scene, Medusa, Leda, equestrian monument.
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265:History of Science Collaboration of the Month
781:Template-Class history of science articles
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688:"Attributed ". While it lacks nuance, it
250:, an attempt to improve and organize the
32:does not require a rating on Knowledge's
274:Knowledge:WikiProject History of Science
791:WikiProject History of Science articles
682:list of paintings by attribution status
277:Template:WikiProject History of Science
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702:"Robot" has become "Leonardo's robot".
338:This template is within the scope of
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761:Template-Class visual arts articles
398:If you look at my detailed list of
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715:Well done, Ham! Big improvement!
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602:Juvenile works and collaboration
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618:Attribution generally accepted
262:. You can also help with the
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796:Template-Class Italy articles
352:and see a list of open tasks.
244:This template is part of the
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697:The Battle of Anghiari
626:: all the shakier ones
651:What about a list of
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409:difference between:
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118:visual arts articles
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504:Remember
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476:Removals
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446:Leonardo
383:Problems
30:template
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429:perhaps
393:Whaaaat
36:scale.
355:Italy
346:Italy
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28:This
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