Talk:Webcomic - Knowledge

1337:. Also what makes you think T. Campbell got his information off Knowledge? The source was published while the article was deleted since January of 2007. And even when it was not deleted its claim to being the first did not last long, as it was not properly sourced. I an not sure where your going with this other then to discredit T. Campbell reputability instead of explaining why this particular claim may be unreliable, say for instance someone mentioning that his claim about T.H.E. Fox is not representative of other webcomic historians or simply incorrect about it in some non-speculative way. After looking over it again, I don't think T. Campbell's claims mean nothing, but I am not sure whether it is enough to make such a claim. I would like to know what you think is. 1659:. Fiore's output doesn't feature any of the typical hallmarks of a comic, online or otherwise, such as speech bubbles or, more importantly, panels. On his website, Fiore's output is described as 'Newstoons', implying an identification from the producer's point of view with animated cartoons, while his Wiki article describes him as a 'political cartoonist', rather than a webcomic creator (though he was included in Ted Raill's Attitude 3, a summary of the latter genre). If anything, I would suggest that Fiore's work is more akin to motion comics than a webcomic; but that's my own opinion, which could easily get everyone into an exercise in genre-definition, which would probably get us nowhere fast. 746: 719: 1440:

if he does he is not a reliable source, where are you going with this? The fact that it was on Knowledge beforehand is irrelevant because the whole idea is that this information was researched, not just pulled off Knowledge. I would be more concerned if this source popped up immediately after it appeared on Knowledge because that may indicate that it was not researched. To be honest, I do not see any founding that he is an unreliable source, you are not answering any of the valuable questions that I have asked and on the contrary, I feel that you are wasting my time.

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credible. Considering the highly alternative nature of the content, most of the attention the site received was direct user feedback (including comments posted by R.U.Sirius Ad Rock and others), finding what you might consider "RELIABLE" sources to quote except from the site itself, user pages, wikis, links, and the dates written in the actual artwork is difficult given the time expired since it's occurrence. The wayback machine didn't start collecting pages until 1996 where you can see snapshots of content that had by then been online for more than a year.

412: 1051:"In France Comic Blogs are thriving. There are now festivals dedicated to webcomics like the Festiblog. Even at the famous Comic Festival of Angoulême, comic bloggers are present and award the price of the best webcomic. France is a country with a strong tradition in comics but there seems to be a place left for bloggers who represent the new generation of comic authors. A good example is Boulet, who started with a blog and who's publishing his second album of webcomics now: Bouletcorp. Here's a list of established and less established French webcomics: 2552:? Did you even check out the interactive/animated qualities of the site themselves as listed above? I'm disputing your sarcastic, dismissive and pejorative tone, "that's great", "your thing", "zero" etc, not your reasoning, besides where you claim it's not notable and then dispute the notability claim based on the one that you made saying that other sites make this claim too. Because that's just not true and hence suspect to inquiry. Just for posterity, please show us the sites that are temporally relevant (let's say 94-96) that also make this claim. 1264:

shouldn't be put in encyclopedia articles. It's enough to say, as THIS ARTICLE does, "Among the earliest online comics were T.H.E. Fox." THIS ARTICLE. Not the deleted one somebody has recreated. And fwiw, this T Campbell? "T. Campbell. ... is most certainly NOT a 'World-reknown webcomics historian.' He knows it, you know it and Antarctic Press knows it. To print that is a false statement. If T. Campbell is a 'world-reknown webcomics historian' then I'm a 'world-reknown fitness expert.' They knew they were lying. They printed it anyway." So says

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book (which does not mention T.H.E. Fox) and that he should not claim to be world-renown, because he is not and I do not think anyone here said he was. But this is not just "someone" and denying his credibility with something Scott Kurtz said would seem to be just as as much of an unreliable claim to you then the claims T. Campbell is making. In fact, this is not even what I said. I said he was "noted for being a webcomic historian" not that he was a "World- webcomics historian".

839: 806: 530: 673: 648: 289: 262: 3403: 299: 384: 1462:, YOUR SOURCE IS UNRELIABLE. He is less reliable then Knowledge, as Knowledge has key information for several years before he has it. Yes, therefore, if he were to read Knowledge more often, he would become a much more reliable source than he is now; however, he would still not be a reliable enough source to use him for information in Knowledge about all that is "known," and especially not this type of debatable information. 220: 1055:... This is only a short selection and some of these blogs have an audience of 30,000 readers/day, others of 200 readers/day, but their diversity reflect the broad range of webcomics in a French comic environment in constant evolution. Some of these webcomics are mixed genres. Using the freedom of a blog some authors mix comics, photography, videos, texts, but essentially these blogs are webcomics." 1477:

first known (remember, in the among experts sense) there should be at least two different sources that say that it is the first known. Finding sources for T.H.E. Fox is not easy, because Google makes no differentiation between "T.H.E. Fox" and "the fox" and I had hoped T. Campbell's word would be enough. We are running out of screen here, so I hope you feel that this would be enough.

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I wrote and published *A History of Webcomics*, I didn't know about *T.H.E. Fox.* My earliest "online comic" citation then (not counting some forerunners that weren't really comics) was *Where The Buffalo Roam* from six years later. After my publication, a reader turned me on to some of the creator's interviews and I realized there was enough to verify his 1986 claim.

1609:. (I can't copy it all here) He says "I think I would just let everyone tell their own story, even if they overlap and contradict each other. The contradictions would at least be compelling." and then goes on to say "Maybe it's something that should be more open-source and wiki-like than something that reads like a term paper." Sense the relevancy of all this? :) 1300:

Knowledge as a source for such an unreliable claim. Clearly, if someone traded a comic on the net in the late '70s, then someone knows it, even if we don't, so it is improper to call this "the first known" with just a single, disputed, unreliable source. The best we can say is what this article has said for 4 years -- that this is an early online comic.

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It's constructive because it's infinitely unlikely, but alternatively plausible, that of the handful of webcomics online in early 1995, one was also animated and interactive and we just didn't happen to realize that despite the logical conclusion. In which case, we'll stop making this claim regarding

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I think you're reading way too much into this. If something is inserted into an article, it needs to have a reliable source backing it up, that's the way Knowledge works. Your information is unsourced. It doesn't matter how "noteworthy" it is or not, if it isn't reliably sourced, it doesn't belong

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This page does not include the WackyCrackHeads. It was not only the first colored (in color) webcomic on the internet (in Jan 1995), it also coined the term Hypertoon, was also the very first to use many of the newly available HTML features for WWW Developers, including tables, server-push animation,

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At this writing, I can't find anything earlier than, or contemporary with, *T.H.E. Fox*. I think it would be extremely unreliable to claim *T.H.E. Fox* as "the earliest online comic," but unless someone steps forward to offer up an earlier example, it makes sense to call it "the earliest known." When

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Would it be relevant enough and not considered spamming to add an external link for a webcomic artists's discussion forum? There is resourceful information about creating and making a business of webcomics at this website. I've read the external links rules and I can't seem to figure out whether this

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Adding content about non-English webcomics seems a worthy goal, but the current state of this section is not ideal. A list of non-English webcomics isn't the way to go - we don't have a list of English language webcomics in the main article, and how would one decide which comics to include and which

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Not every first of significance - or even of interest - is hailed with a choir of angels. For every "first web page", there are plenty of "first ". However, if it wasn't of interest now, nobody would be writing books or articles about it. As for "among the first" . . . if we were talking six months,

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I feel fairly strongly about the use of 'webcomic' over web comic', as the former appears much more in reliable sources. A Google News search of "webcomic" gives five times more results than "web comic", and there are more book results for 'webcomic' as well. Going through some of the most commonly

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in the introduction to the article it says that there where an estimated 38,000 webcomics in 2007. The problem is in the source of this information. It is apparently a short blogpost by Joey Manley (I say apparently because it is no longer in the original website. the link, from 2009, does not work

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The WackyCrackHeads has now been deleted from this page 4 times in the past 4 days amidst cries of vandalism. Having a hard time recovering the MN Daily article, and the refs to the site are all links from early user sites like The WELL, MINDVOX, and ART CRIMES which I suppose you do not considered

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article and it is certainly not mandatory that I read the entirety of any associated parent Knowledge article that I happen to be talking about as if Knowledge was the only source for such information. You are saying that T. Campbell should get his information from Knowledge but you are saying that

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Furthermore, this does belong on this page as it was the first interactive and first animated webcomic. Go ahead and try and find somebody else claiming to be the first interactive comic or partially animated comic, because you're not going to find them. At the time, there were less than 50 online

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I was never confused about what Scott Kurtz and Jon Rosenberg said. I was only confused about why you think T. Campbell based this on Knowledge, which seems completely unfounded beyond speculation. I think regardless of T. Campbell's reliability, revising my opinion, that in order to say it is the

2676:. because of this I am going to eliminate the sentence. I would recommend replacing it with something like the number of webcomics listed in popular websites that manage webcomics, because without an original academic study I don't think an approximation is good enough to be posted on wikipedia. 2333:

This really confirms the notability even more, noting that someone thinks the claim is so noteworthy that they can't believe it's true and is willing to reject all the data to deny it's inclusion on a wiki page. However, I can't help but wonder if this isn't just another example of moralistically

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Well, I knew about T.H.E. Fox without gleaning it from Knowledge. In fact, I never knew it was mentioned on this article until you pointed it out. Are you suggesting that T. Campbell's knowledge of webcomics and the like are solely or primarily based on Knowledge? Despite whether he found it here

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I suspect your source got the information about this comic off Knowledge because Knowledge had the information for several years before your source did, and I find it more plausible that he looked it up on Knowledge than that he, independent of Knowledge, just stumbled upon the information all by

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But you never answered my question. "If not, then who, or what kind of evidence is needed to make such a claim?" The way "things that are important" are recorded can always be disputed. This is why the argument can apply to anything. What Scott Kurtz was saying was mostly criticism of T. Campbell

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If it's besides the point, there's no point in discussing it, because it isn't related to improving the article, which is the purpose of an article talk page. If your webcomic is notable, find a reliable source showing this. If it was the first interactive comic, find a reliable source showing

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I'm sorry, but I already answered your question: "this isn't the type of thing anyone can know for sure." Nobody knows everything that happened on Compuserve or The Source or the like back in the'70s, and so we shouldn't use a single unreliable source that is likely getting his information off

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I've seen "web comic" used more in writing and usage than "webcomic" and it also seems correct to write them as two separate words like "graphic novel" than to combine them into one. I wanted to know what the majority of people on here believe before making any important moves. Should this page

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If he doesn't read Knowledge, he should, because it has information three years before he does. And you say you haven't read this article; I have no idea why you've been engaging in a conversation about it then, and I have no idea why I'm wasting my time talking to someone about an article they

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I know nothing about the history of online comics outside of what I read in the French and German articles and faint memories of Compuserve comic forums (possibly German around 1995). Nevertheless I added inside html comments the following very rough skeleton that could be expanded to cover the

3203:" seems to be the only term that is spelled as a compound word unless there is an example of another term that does the same. Even then, there are still people who spell it as two separate words. It's for this reason that I lean towards renaming this page to "web comic" rather than "webcomic". 1263:

No, the argument could not apply to "being the first at anything." Things that are important firsts are recorded when they happen and are indisputable. This is simply someone saying it's the first they know of, and that's not the same as being the first anyone knows of, and that type of thing

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pointed out and noted for being a webcomic historian (hence the title of his book), someone who can credibly make the claim that it is the first known and as such does not make the claim that none may exist before it. If not, then who, or what kind of evidence is needed to make such a claim?

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We are not experts, and so are not in a position to make such a claim. That's his job, and fortunately he did it, the claim was published, and he confirmed it in that email. Another site made the same claim. Until someone comes along to make a different claim - or he gets back with something

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were to publish that this is the first known online comic or even that it is the first online comic, would you say that is unreliable? When I said first known, in an encyclopedic sense, this would mean the first known by experts in that particular field or that history would tell. This

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I'm clearly not writing that it is notable for its simple existence, but rather providing its notability lies in both its timeline and its innovative use of the format for furthering the medium through experimental use of web technologies, animation and user interaction as written

3324:" however, there seems to be no surviving evidence of this, and, in an interview where he was expressly talking about his early comics-making experience, he talked about selling his early comics for a quarter apiece in his fourth-grade class, but made no mention of the internet." 2001:

Okay, well that's probably the problem. A quick google search does not a fact make. Additionally, the 33 results from google for "first interactive webcomic" refer to The Black Tower; published in 2008 and Sarab.co (in Lebanon) in 2011. Please cite your claims in talk.

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has been deleted for more then 2 years, I seriously doubt that T Campbell is basing his claims on Knowledge. "this isn't the type of thing anyone can know for sure" Then how do we know anything is the first for sure? This seems rhetorical. T Campbell is the author of

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We could bicker all day about the possibility that an earlier comic may turn up, but that argument could apply to any claim of being the first at anything. This is why I said that it is the first known, instead of flatly saying that it is the first. Considering that

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any of this. If reliable sources are that hard to find, it's likely not notable enough to include as an example of early webcomics, as it isn't an iconic example of one. Simply existing early isn't enough. Being an early webcomic isn't the same as being a

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According to Amazon, Campbell's book (where he thought the first online comic was from 1992!) came out on June 14, 2006. I think it's hilarious that this 'World-reknown webcomics historian' is at least 8 months behind Knowledge in his knowledge of Webcomics!

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writes: "some fairly major chronological errors ... absolutely retarded ... my faith in his research abilities is pretty slim ... he is not concerned about accuracy ... He is not concerned when he steals ideas from people and posts them without credit."

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A quick Google search of "first interactive webcomic" comes up with a few claims, actually. There is no "burden of disproof" on Knowledge, information must be supported by reliable sources. Inserting your own webcomic into a Knowledge article is a

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Considering the artwork with dates drawn into them, internet archives, links from similarly ancient web artifacts and those lousy disreputable DNS records, I'd like to suggest you re-examine your motivation for removing the edits from the

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before any other proposed online comic. It's not "among the earliest". It's far and away the earliest that we currently know of from any verifiable source, and we should make this clear. Implying anything else misrepresents the facts.

1770:- no wiki article for this one, though it has positive cites from external sources - not sure which, if any, count as reputable (this was one of the comics mentioned in an earlier version - couldn't find cites for the other): 3336:

earliest)" webcomic. Kleefeld's book seems to me more reputable than the sources cited here, who provide no argument for their assertions. I would just edit the article, but since the claim is also repeated in other places

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Discussed above why being the first animated/interactive webcomic is notable. The link from the WELL shows it was on the page in April of 1995. And here's a Wayback Machine view of the one of the same from a couple years

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Another point to mention is that the WackyCrackHeads was also a featured comic of David DeVitry's Webcomics.com which was a 1996 anthology of webcomics online which ran for a few years but is also missing from this page.

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I'd really like to see your search results showing that there were other claims to "first interactive webcomics" or webcomics with animation before April or even within a decade of 1995. Unless your point was just that

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If you have a suggestion for another, better example of a webcomic artist that incorporates "animations or even interactive elements" in their work, you should name them and the supporting reliable sources. Thanks,

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any longer. I read it on a blog archive). It makes some wild assumptions without any justification, and in the end he says himself that this is not a reliable estimate. this is a link to the post I am refering to

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is on you to prove what you're claiming. If there are no reliable sources verifying this, it isn't fit for inclusion in a Knowledge article. It merely existing in a certain time period is not proof of this. -

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No, by the looks of things all that means is that it's the earliest he personally knows, and it's probably the earliest he knows because he looked it up on Knowledge and it's the earliest given in this article.

1163:, so I'm not sure who else to look to (I've emailed him asking for clarification on where he got the information). Note that the article was just created, although it's true that a previous version existed. 153: 3248:

We should definitely stay with "webcomic" as one word, as that is by far the most common spelling of the term. Note that there are in fact many other compound words that also start with "web". For example,

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comics and of those, nobody else will make this claim that they were the first to do any of the stuff the WackyCrackHeads did, because it simply didn't happen. It's a simple matter of historical accuracy.

548: 902:" I see no discussion here on the Talk page, but I do agree that the article is almost entirely about online comics in the Anglo-saxon language sphere and neglects European (non-English) and Asian work. 1314:

So, your saying that there is no way to know for sure, no matter what source is used? Claims to being the first known are made a lot. Are you saying that none of such claims can ever be proven? If say

1012:. My contribution was not a list, those were added later. I agree with discouraging list-type entries, but not prose sections. Please note this English wikipedia article still suffers from the usual 1406:

first or not, are you saying that he put no other research into it? And if so, what evidence do you have that this is the case except that it happened to be on here before the source was published?

3142:. Now, there are of course a lot more source to dig through. I think books about comics may be interesting as well when asking about this, but I feel like "webcomic" is in much more common usage. ~ 1454:

Yes, honestly, I thought you might consider reading this article before commenting. I'm not sure why you are so confused. What I am saying is that, as evidenced by the information posted here from

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that anyone was writing a history in the first place. Was his research perfect? Obviously not, and he knew it, given the version number at the top of the book. But he corrected himself with the

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I've removed the link to Yanapax, a reader application. Can't seem to find any sources that this one is more relevant than all the other. I don't see the relevance of this link anyway. Regards

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article, the article whose talk page we are having this conversation on, has apparently said "Some of the earliest online comics include T.H.E. Fox 1986" consistently since 16 November 2005.

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I would be interested if anyone could expand this section for several other languages and cultures, for example where are Japanese and Korean webcomics mentioned (apart from eigoMANGA)?

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and scroll down to the bottom where it says The Wacky Crack-Heads! you'll see the link points to Interverse. Indeed, the comics were on interverse before even dross or wackycrackheads.

1822:, so that looks like it could be a good example to include along with Mark Fiore's comics. The other does not look to have very good references at all so wouldn't belong here. Thanks, 3024: 3020: 2904: 2900: 2777: 2773: 3370: 1905:] and user-interaction via perl driven web forms (user's could add their name and comments to the scrolling LED Java Applet in the Hypertoon "the Church of $ cientology") 992: 1718:- referred to on its wiki article as one of the first comics to incorporate interactivity and animation. Lots of references on that page, but online ones are as follows: 1662:

I'm definitely not saying that Fiore is unworthy of inclusion in Wiki or even the webcomics article (in case any thinks I am) - but I do feel that a better example of an

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to exclude? If someone can find a good source for analysis of such comics, that would be great. Right now, though, we've got a grab-bag of comics - hardly encyclopedic.

3226:", though. English can be oddly inconsistent with its terms, but I don't believe that is an issue. "Web comic" still redirects here, after all. I think we should follow 1863: 483: 3361: 2982: 147: 954:

2005 revitalisation of francophone comics: Blog BD (mixed set of graphic novel fragments, illustrations, sketches, popular as, but different from US-webcomics);

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Can someone write or link to an article on webcomic hosting sites? I know there are many of them now. Taptastic, ComicFury, probably a whole bunch of others.

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And it's exactly *my point* that a quick google search will turn up nothing. But an extended, intentionally directed google search will enlighten completely.

1846:" was doing this in 1995, with quicktime, flash, java, javascript in the middle of the strip, or at the end, see the section below for links and references. 1843: 2873:

https://web.archive.org/web/20130308091741/http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/10/02/homestuck-interview-andrew-hussie-bryan-lee-omalley-ms-paint-adventures/

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That only verifies that a website existed, and something existed there. Not what it was, what it was the "first" of, or that it was notable. That's why

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Frédéric Boilet, Guy Delisle, Lucille Gomez, Nicoz, Clément Oubrerie, Paka, Pluche, Lewis Trondheim, Wayne, Blog de la Mirabelle, Le repaire de Lommsek

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Because you had already commented on those claims, which aren't relevant here anyways. It doesn't matter if you're the only one that claims it. The

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Right. We can't say for sure that it is the earliest online comic. But I dropped him an email, and he pointed out this quite reasonable point:

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But it was censored because the links (in bold) are considered spam!!! Unbelievable. I'm done here. I don't feel like working for nothing.

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I don't. Those linking sites, the dns records, wayback machine archives are all verifiable and reliable sources. If you really feel that

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That is, Knowledge had this information 3 years before your source, which suggests to me that your source probably got it off Knowledge.

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is not noteworthy, then why the google search in attempt dispel the claim and why the sarcastic language, "that's great and all", etc...

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and follow the majority of sources; do you have a few significant sources that consistently use "web comic" rather than "webcomic"? ~

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

2301: 3278: 2737: 2727: 1793:, but when I tried to save with an inline link, the update was blocked as the domain appears on the wiki blacklist. I gather from 1618: 1513:

And as far as whether he's getting his information of Knowledge, if he isn't he should be! Looking through this article's history,

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Sorry for my misunderstanding, I thought you meant he based it directly on a claim on Knowledge. But then, what makes you think he

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If you want to suggest for Knowledge to use the term "Web comic" rather than "Webcomic", I suppose it would be best to do so on

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https://web.archive.org/web/20100124060541/http://www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2000&month=November&read=1108

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This information has not been deleted since January of 2007. As I said earlier, which you can read below, this article, the

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Thoughts? Would either of these be suitable? I think it's best to get consensus on this before posting to the main article

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Ok, then why when I asked for your findings about it not being the only claim (of the 20th century), you didn't share?

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by Ted Rall. Kleefeld awards to T.H.E. Fox the more measured claim of being "One of the earliest (often considered

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http://www.comicsalliance.com/2012/10/02/homestuck-interview-andrew-hussie-bryan-lee-omalley-ms-paint-adventures/

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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https://web.archive.org/web/20100305085613/http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=134710&highlight=zuda

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the

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A section on the different developmental path that French "webcomics" took could be added here. Paraphrasing

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Eight months really isn't long enough, unless you live on Knowledge and print your books via Hulu. Campbell

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and see that in both April and May of 1995, The WackyCrackHeads included webcomics using QT with animation.

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that Examiner may well be removed from the list, so I'll try to re-add it later (though I may well forget)

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writing what would become a book in 2003, as a series of articles for Comixtalk. He went to the effort of

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with

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when updating them - although in this case all he got (in May 2005, half a year before that edit) was a

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would be considered spam since it is of assistance and provides information. Thanks for your help!

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You are right, this isn't the type of thing anyone can know for sure, and the source says as much.

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http://web.archive.org/web/19971120184544/http://www.dross.com/wackycrackheads/PG/psychogoose.html

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I find this way too amusing and ironic not to point out. Read the last part of Scott Kurtz's post

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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join

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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between

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http://web.archive.org/web/19971120184544/http://www.dross.com/wackycrackheads/PG/media/goose.mov

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template

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https://web.archive.org/20070127001532/http://www.publishersweekly.com:80/article/CA6393781.html

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https://web.archive.org/20090606062854/http://www.publishersweekly.com:80/article/CA6327720.html

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contrary to rest of world French comics online return to the traditional printed paper style;

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The dark spot in the middle is where the quicktime is embedded in the source: <embed src="

2207: 2013: 1983: 1936: 1880: 1809: 1701: 1671: 1569: 1218: 1168: 1130: 1070: 248: 3353:), and I'm more comfortable on German Knowledge, I thought I'd ask for comments here first. 3338: 3237: 3227: 3219: 3208: 3149: 3120: 3088: 3050: 2930: 2803: 2624: 2617: 2500: 1823: 1779: 1683: 1636: 1583: 1536: 1526: 1467: 1426: 1396: 1363: 1305: 1275: 1182: 1146: 1062: 684: 658: 2613: 1391:

himself one day while he just happened to be in The Commodore 64/128 RoundTable on GEnie.

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different; he said he'd take another look - it's the earliest known by reliable sources.

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on the web. To participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the

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added "Some of the earliest online comics include T.H.E. Fox 1986" on 16 November 2005.

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No, we absolutely should not write this based on a single extremely unreliable source.

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

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If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

2802:

If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with

900:

This article may not provide balanced geographical coverage on the region in question.

745: 718: 141: 3270: 3177:" which is written as two separate words instead of one. The same goes for the term " 2987:

http://www.catholicleague.org/catalyst.php?year=2000&month=November&read=1108

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Haha, just got done writing only to get an edit conflict. Well, here it is anyway...

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has the assertion of being the "first known online comic" based on a statement by

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was the first webcomic has appeared in the article. However, in his recent book

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page 11 of the Minnesota Daily Student paper's Arts and Entertainment Weekly.

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and thus the pursuit of it's inclusion on this page for reasons of notability!!

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Admitted that it's besides the point. But, did you even check out the link on

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Because that's exactly the point, your claim is not the only one. There's no

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yours does, zero. That's why reliable sources are required, to verify it. -

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that your thing was the first, that is why reliable sources are required. -

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existing print-comic publishers show limited strips on their web-portals (

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you are directly lying and fabricating info and thus accusing me of same.

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claims on line comics in Korea represent a quarter of the cartoon market!

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after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add

2005:

That's exactly the point. Their claims have exactly the same amount of

1907:]. It was thus also the first interactive and animated webcomic online. 1696:

K, Starblueheather, I'll see what I can find and post suggestions here.

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to FA; Tag all articles you find with {{WikiProject Internet culture}}

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http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=134710&highlight=zuda

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Talk:Digital comic#Clarification needed to distinguish from Webcomic

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Comics in the French language appeared online very hesitantly: 1997

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Wiki Education assignment: Digital Media and Information in Society

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to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

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if there are no reliable sources to support your claims. Without

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article. If Knowledge accepts his work as valid - and apparently

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motivated, socio-economic prejudice based on the title being "

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Honestly? Were discussing the authenticity of a source on the

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shows the kind of balanced coverage we should be aiming for. -

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the WackyCrackHeads (first interactive and animated webcomic)

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When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the

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Whois record for wackycrackheads.com | whois.domaintools.com

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http://www.well.com/~ivanski/viewmovie/viewmovie_sites.html

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And here's another view on the reliability of this source.

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I have reinstated the section I started in 2008, now named

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remain "webcomic" or should it be renamed to "web comic"?

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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for additional information. I made the following changes:

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The interview cited was apparently published in the book

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http://wackycrackheads.com/mn/minnesota-daily-page11.jpg

1975:, your claim cannot be inserted. Please take a look at 327:

If you would like to participate, you can help with the

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I have just added archive links to 2 external links on

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http://wackycrackheads.com/mn/minnesota-daily-cover.jpg

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Whois record for interverse.com | whois.domaintools.com

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remarked upon in 2008. For those that can read French,

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http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6393781.html

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http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6327720.html

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Created on Oct. 20, 1995 and Expires on Oct. 19, 2012.

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who can make such a statement, then? I mean, he wrote

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2001 "Lapin by Phiip first french online comic strip"?

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Created on Mar. 26, 1996 and Expires on Mar. 27, 2013

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Created on Jan. 24, 1995 and Expires on Jan. 25, 2014

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New Comic Strip Seeks Single Asian Female Perspective

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The only reason I ask is because whenever the word "

1555:- I think it's reasonable to accept a later version. 920:

http://fr.wikipedia.org/Bande_dessin%C3%A9e_en_ligne

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Category:Internet culture articles needing attention

444:, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of 294: 15: 3019:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2899:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2772:using the archive tool instructions below. Editors 2545: 2461:

being the first interactive comic on online in 1995

3349:, no further sources there except an assertion by 2078:Whois record for dross.com | whois.domaintools.com 3330:Attitude 3: The New Subversive Online Cartoonists 2544:? Did you even check out the wayback machine for 1376:base it solely on this information on Knowledge? 580:Category:Internet culture articles needing images 3446: 1732:The Internet Archive: zark.com - Nov, 1996 - .. 682:, a project which is currently considered to be 33:for general discussion of the article's subject. 3005:This message was posted before February 2018. 2885:This message was posted before February 2018. 2758:This message was posted before February 2018. 1818:Argon Zark has good refs like Scott McCloud's 174: 1655:'s work isn't a good example of an animated 549:View all requested internet culture articles 3540:C-Class Websites articles of Mid-importance 3298:since the 11-year-old discussion regarding 2128:http://www.solscape.com/humor/cartoons.html 950:Anglosaxon and Asian regions clearly ahead; 605:Category:Internet self-classification codes 2855:I have just modified one external link on 1559:I could kinda see your point. But this is 537:Here are some tasks awaiting attention: 339:the attached article or discuss it at the 3495:C-Class Comics articles of Top-importance 3371:Clarification needed to distinguish from 2965:I have just modified 2 external links on 3520:Top-importance Internet culture articles 3475:Knowledge level-5 vital articles in Arts 2612:Here's an article from Nov. 30th, 1995. 2338:"? No worries though, I'm used to it... 1919:That's great and all, but there are no 930:Angoulême International Comics Festival 217: 3447: 3378:Hello, I have started a discussion at 993:2400:AC40:620:AB64:983E:A1E6:73D9:B26A 458:Knowledge:WikiProject Internet culture 3550:Unknown-importance Computing articles 3525:WikiProject Internet culture articles 909:with an example of one German comic. 461:Template:WikiProject Internet culture 678:This article is within the scope of 438:This article is within the scope of 310:This article is within the scope of 213: 2444:in the article. Simple as that. - 495:WikiProject Internet culture To-do: 247:It is of interest to the following 23:for discussing improvements to the 13: 3411: 3407: 1789:There's also a postive article on 1316:The Guinness Book of World Records 1106:Authority for "first online comic" 928:first (shortlived?) appearance at 804: 382: 14: 3571: 3515:C-Class Internet culture articles 2969:. Please take a moment to review 2859:. Please take a moment to review 2702:. Please take a moment to review 3535:Mid-importance Websites articles 3465:Knowledge vital articles in Arts 3460:Knowledge level-5 vital articles 3414:. Further details are available 3401: 1746:'"Comic Creator: Charley Parker" 905:Therefore I started the section 837: 744: 717: 671: 646: 528: 431: 410: 297: 287: 260: 227: 218: 45:Click here to start a new topic. 3193:for digital manga in Japan and 1795:this on the blacklist talk page 791:This article has been rated as 478:This article has been rated as 369:This article has been rated as 3505:WikiProject Webcomics articles 3490:Top-importance Comics articles 3480:C-Class vital articles in Arts 3470:C-Class level-5 vital articles 3199:for digital manhua in China. " 3091:) 12:42, April 18, 2018 (UTC) 2843:09:02, 10 September 2015 (UTC) 2550:http://www.WackyCrackHeads.com 771:Knowledge:WikiProject Websites 694:Knowledge:WikiProject Blogging 1: 3430:— Assignment last updated by 3392:21:55, 11 February 2022 (UTC) 3382:which affects both articles. 3073:20:08, 2 September 2017 (UTC) 2667:Estimated number of webcomics 2597:21:40, 15 February 2012 (UTC) 2575:20:10, 15 February 2012 (UTC) 2536:19:25, 15 February 2012 (UTC) 2517:19:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC) 2492:19:08, 15 February 2012 (UTC) 2476:16:24, 13 February 2012 (UTC) 2452:18:18, 15 February 2012 (UTC) 2420:16:24, 13 February 2012 (UTC) 2211:15:41, 13 February 2012 (UTC) 2195:15:35, 13 February 2012 (UTC) 2017:14:50, 13 February 2012 (UTC) 1987:14:16, 13 February 2012 (UTC) 1940:07:46, 13 February 2012 (UTC) 971:01:43, 22 December 2008 (UTC) 940:group of illustrators launch 813:This article is supported by 774:Template:WikiProject Websites 697:Template:WikiProject Blogging 452:and see a list of open tasks. 391:This article is supported by 42:Put new text under old text. 3440:14:23, 16 October 2023 (UTC) 3366:22:11, 12 October 2020 (UTC) 3211:) 08:49, May 31, 2018 (UTC) 3096:used sources for webcomics ( 2686:20:13, 31 January 2014 (UTC) 1832:06:16, 8 February 2011 (UTC) 1814:10:49, 4 February 2011 (UTC) 1706:09:24, 4 February 2011 (UTC) 1692:15:13, 3 February 2011 (UTC) 1676:14:11, 3 February 2011 (UTC) 1024:w:fr:Bande dessinée en ligne 441:WikiProject Internet culture 349:Knowledge:WikiProject Comics 7: 3510:WikiProject Comics articles 3183:" which is not written as " 3124:, etc, etc, not to mention 2824:04:34, 30 August 2015 (UTC) 2641:01:40, 5 January 2014 (UTC) 1923:that have been provided to 1768:The Boy with Nails for Eyes 1155:Hmm. Do you think there is 1001:02:15, 31 August 2023 (UTC) 926:Bande dessinée interactive? 352:Template:WikiProject Comics 50:New to Knowledge? Welcome! 10: 3576: 3545:C-Class Computing articles 3500:C-Class Webcomics articles 3156:08:46, 18 April 2018 (UTC) 3036:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2962:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2953:20:03, 31 March 2017 (UTC) 2916:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2852:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 2789:(last update: 5 June 2024) 2720:|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} 2695:Hello fellow Wikipedians, 1079:20:30, 11 March 2009 (UTC) 987:02:18, 28 April 2009 (UTC) 484:project's importance scale 375:project's importance scale 3530:C-Class Websites articles 3100:), you have sources like 1641:15:23, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1619:13:08, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1588:15:32, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1574:07:16, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1531:04:54, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1487:07:20, 27 July 2009 (UTC) 1472:01:24, 26 July 2009 (UTC) 1450:21:52, 25 July 2009 (UTC) 1431:04:33, 25 July 2009 (UTC) 1416:03:15, 25 July 2009 (UTC) 1401:06:36, 24 July 2009 (UTC) 1386:04:51, 24 July 2009 (UTC) 1368:04:27, 24 July 2009 (UTC) 1347:03:54, 24 July 2009 (UTC) 1310:14:58, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1295:13:03, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1280:04:44, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1259:03:26, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1223:03:01, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1187:00:14, 22 July 2009 (UTC) 1173:17:17, 20 July 2009 (UTC) 1151:16:21, 20 July 2009 (UTC) 1135:14:25, 20 July 2009 (UTC) 812: 790: 739: 666: 490: 477: 464:Internet culture articles 426: 390: 368: 282: 255: 80:Be welcoming to newcomers 3279:20:56, 1 June 2018 (UTC) 3244:10:18, 31 May 2018 (UTC) 3216:the webcomic WikiProject 1885:07:03, 24 May 2011 (UTC) 1725:Parker, Charley (2004). 1036:14:29, 17 May 2012 (UTC) 1010:Non-anglophone webcomics 751:This article is part of 3485:C-Class Comics articles 3343:List of early webcomics 2958:External links modified 2848:External links modified 2691:External links modified 2659:Webcomic hosting sites? 1101:03:03, 8 May 2009 (UTC) 1086:adding an external link 3555:All Computing articles 3455:C-Class vital articles 3318:Witches & Stitches 3306:Witches & Stitches 3304:above, the claim that 3220:the comics WikiProject 3127:The Webcomics Examiner 2674:http://archive.is/ZAFf 1238:A History of Webcomics 1161:A History Of Webcomics 1017:geographical imbalance 893:geographical imbalance 809: 592:All stubs are located 387: 75:avoid personal attacks 3560:All Websites articles 3418:. Student editor(s): 3078:Web Comic vs Webcomic 1854:Found a source about 907:Non-english webcomics 884:Non-english webcomics 816:WikiProject Computing 808: 561:Pick an article from 394:WikiProject Webcomics 386: 234:level-5 vital article 100:Neutral point of view 3339:History of webcomics 3224:other stuff existing 3109:Comic Book Resources 3017:regular verification 2897:regular verification 2770:regular verification 2755:to let others know. 2706:. If necessary, add 2678:Melquiades Babilonia 1965:conflict of interest 1872:. November 10, 2006. 1780:Comic Book Resources 1764:Another suggestion: 1421:haven't even read. 754:WikiProject Websites 680:WikiProject Blogging 105:No original research 3007:After February 2018 2887:After February 2018 2760:After February 2018 2751:parameter below to 2585:The WackyCrackHeads 2336:The WackyCrackHeads 1856:Single Asian Female 1850:Single Asian Female 1844:The WackyCrackHeads 1541:asking for feedback 1045:Well I added this: 860:Apr 2005 - Nov 2008 341:project's talk page 3416:on the course page 3133:Reinventing Comics 3061:InternetArchiveBot 3012:InternetArchiveBot 2941:InternetArchiveBot 2892:InternetArchiveBot 2765:InternetArchiveBot 2371:SINCE 1995 BABY!!! 1932:early webcomic. - 1901:], embedded sound 1820:Reinventing Comics 1647:Animated webcomics 810: 388: 313:WikiProject Comics 243:content assessment 86:dispute resolution 47: 3218:or possibly even 3037: 2917: 2822: 2790: 2644: 2627:comment added by 2520: 2503:comment added by 1899:], java applets 1664:animated webcomic 1082: 1065:comment added by 881: 880: 861: 831: 830: 827: 826: 823: 822: 777:Websites articles 712: 711: 708: 707: 700:Blogging articles 641: 640: 637: 636: 633: 632: 629: 628: 607:(!?); Try to get 405: 404: 401: 400: 212: 211: 66:Assume good faith 43: 3567: 3442: 3424:article contribs 3413: 3412:14 December 2023 3409: 3405: 3351:Yahoo! Celebrity 3240: 3234: 3166: 3152: 3146: 3071: 3062: 3035: 3034: 3013: 2951: 2942: 2915: 2914: 2893: 2835:Knud Winckelmann 2818: 2817:Talk to my owner 2813: 2788: 2787: 2766: 2721: 2713: 2643: 2621: 2546:http://dross.com 2519: 2497: 2201:reliable sources 1979:. Thank you. - 1973:reliable sources 1921:reliable sources 1710:One suggestion: 1081: 1059: 1021: 1015: 897: 891: 876: 859: 841: 833: 797:importance scale 779: 778: 775: 772: 769: 748: 741: 740: 735: 732: 721: 714: 713: 702: 701: 698: 695: 692: 675: 668: 667: 662: 650: 643: 642: 543:Article requests 532: 525: 524: 492: 491: 466: 465: 462: 459: 456: 455:Internet culture 446:internet culture 435: 428: 427: 422: 418:Internet culture 414: 407: 406: 357: 356: 353: 350: 347: 307: 302: 301: 291: 284: 283: 278: 275: 264: 257: 256: 240: 231: 230: 223: 222: 214: 206: 179: 178: 164: 95:Article policies 16: 3575: 3574: 3570: 3569: 3568: 3566: 3565: 3564: 3445: 3444: 3429: 3399: 3376: 3293: 3238: 3232: 3160: 3150: 3144: 3103:Comics Alliance 3080: 3065: 3060: 3028: 3021:have permission 3011: 2975:this simple FaQ 2960: 2945: 2940: 2908: 2901:have permission 2891: 2865:this simple FaQ 2850: 2831: 2821: 2816: 2781: 2774:have permission 2764: 2715: 2707: 2693: 2669: 2622: 2498: 1892: 1852: 1824:Starblueheather 1684:Starblueheather 1649: 1561:over five years 1553:it's willing to 1203: 1122:Penny and Aggie 1108: 1088: 1060: 1043: 1019: 1013: 959: 958: 895: 889: 886: 877: 871: 846: 776: 773: 770: 767: 766: 733: 727: 699: 696: 693: 690: 689: 656: 625: 523: 463: 460: 457: 454: 453: 420: 355:Comics articles 354: 351: 348: 345: 344: 303: 296: 276: 270: 241:on Knowledge's 238: 228: 208: 207: 202: 121: 116: 115: 114: 91: 61: 12: 11: 5: 3573: 3563: 3562: 3557: 3552: 3547: 3542: 3537: 3532: 3527: 3522: 3517: 3512: 3507: 3502: 3497: 3492: 3487: 3482: 3477: 3472: 3467: 3462: 3457: 3408:28 August 2023 3398: 3395: 3375: 3369: 3326: 3325: 3292: 3291:First webcomic 3289: 3288: 3287: 3286: 3285: 3284: 3283: 3282: 3281: 3079: 3076: 3055: 3054: 3047: 3000: 2999: 2991:Added archive 2989: 2981:Added archive 2959: 2956: 2935: 2934: 2927: 2880: 2879: 2871:Added archive 2849: 2846: 2830: 2829:External links 2827: 2814: 2808: 2807: 2800: 2745: 2744: 2736:Added archive 2734: 2726:Added archive 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