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1697:. It does not mention Sobekneferu at all. It was re-added today by another IP under the mistaken impression that it was removed during the dispute between myself and Raven rs. IPs cannot be pinged, so I'm opening this talk page thread to invite either that IP or another editor to offer reliable evidence that the statue has been identified as Sobekneferu. The article currently states that no know statue of Sobekneferu with her head depicted has survives, the only one known previously having been lost in World War II. If this is a statue of Sobekneferu, firstly I'd expect the curators at the Louvre to know that, and secondly there would be an academic source discussing its identification with Sobekneferu.
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Source: Too complex to cite a single source, see para 1 of reign. Toby
Wilkinson, 2010, pp. 128–129 would support an even stronger 'was the first' rather than 'earliest confirmed': 'The accession of Egypt's first female king ... was a sure sign that the Twelfth Dynasty had run out of steam'. See also
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I meant to put it in quotes, as it's the Greek historians who invented this legendary story of a beautiful woman that got revenge on the murderers of her brother and threw herself into a burning pit so that no-one could exact revenge against her, but without that full context it'd just stick out like
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Source: Cooney, p. 12: 'Once upon a time, there were women who ruled the world. Six of them – Merneith, Neferusobek, Hatshepsut, Nefertiti, Tawosret, and
Cleopatra ...' ; Robins, p. 108: 'Although kingship was regarded as a male office ... nevertheless a few female rulers are known'. Gillam, p. 301:
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This is a project I'd like to take on some day, & could be applied to more of
Knowledge than just Ancient Egypt. Take one of the standard authorities of history or culture -- Herotodus, the Elder Pliny, the writings of Breasted or Kenneth Kitchen, & see if you can't smoothly merge quotations
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I'm also not sure about "the beautiful
Nitocris" in Knowledge's voice. Even if Nitocris' beauty were relevant to this article, this would be the kind of opinion-based statement that we should be attributing, rather than stating as fact; as it is, I'd cut the extra colour and just say "the kingship
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I am possibly being over-sensitive, but the phrase "reigned as
Pharaoh" in the lead paragraph diminishes the stature of Sobeknefru. I didn't do an exhaustive search, but for several of the male rulers surrounding her reign, they are named as Pharaoh, not "reigned as" or "ruled as". The article on
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Just did a final read through. This is one of those articles where it feels like there ought to be more that we can say about the topic, but because of the nature of the sources there just isn't any more that we can cover. So despite my personal wish to know more about
Sobekneferu (get on that,
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The vocalization of her name should be "Sebeknofru", as given e.g., by
Gardiner, not "Sobekneferu". The reason is that the predicate was stressed, so in a name consisting of noun + verb in stative (old perfective), the verb gets the full vowel o, and the noun's vowel is reduced to e or a; for the
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A well-written article recently promoted to GA; good work! No copyvio. Both hooks are interesting and referenced in the article (accepting the offline sources in good faith); I prefer the first one. The image is creative commons and has a caption (IMO, I think that it is not a bad image/bust,
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If "Sobek" comes last, it means "the beauty of Sobek" (noun (possessed) + noun (possessor)). If "neferu" comes last, the name means "Sobek is beautiful" (noun + verb in the stative, also called old perfective). In the latter case the vowels should be switched around, see my following comment.
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what is it that you wanted to extract from the BM's description of the item that you think is missing from the section on en.wiki? Is it the names that are present on the cylinder, because that can be introduced without duplicating the BM's description. The most detailed option would be a
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That's fine. I very rarely create articles and haven't gone through GAN in a few years, so haven't had anything to nominate at DYK in a long while. Only reason I thought of nominating this time round was because I figured a notable female subject might be of interest to the readership.
1078:"Though two kings of the Thirteenth Dynasty, Sobekhotep I and Sonbef, are attested to him" this is pretty awkward. I assume that what it must mean is that Sobekhotep and Sonbef are attested as children of Amenemhat IV? "attested to him" is pretty unclear, though.
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The image to the right was added to the article by an IP on 20 February 2024 claiming that it is a statue of
Sobekneferu from the Louvre. The Louvre mentions only that it is a statue of a woman from the late Twelfth through to Thirteenth Dynasty of Egypt as
1129:"At the time of her accession": I assume that this is Sobekneferu's accession, but the article has mentioned three other women since it last discussed her, and this is the beginning of a new paragraph so we should be clear who we are talking about here.
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Also, shouldn't she be called "king" not "queen"? In
Ancient Egypt, a ruler is denoted as king (long before the use of the word pr-aa (pharaoh) to specifically mean the king), regardless of gender. Queen denotes that she would be the wife of a king.
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transliterated copy of the whole cylinder text. Her praenomen doesn't appear on the seal, but the other names do. Technically this doesn't constitute original research because it's a translation, though I'd still cite the BM website for it anyway.
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A boring task, but the benefit of doing it is that you can set the dates !(e.g., why say Khufu lived 2589-2566? As long as you keep the length of his reign correct, or cite a respected source, you can date it 2590-2567 or 2585-2563)
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Cooney p. 14: ' was the first woman who took the
Egyptian kingship as her formal title, ruling alone for about four years'. If that's too bold given the complications regarding potential previous 'queen regnants', particularly
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I completely forgot to add this page to my watchlist after the notification. So sorry. I've addressed your prose comments, though you'll want to take a second look at the first two points you made. Thanks for the review
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Your proposed rephrase is fine, but I wonder if it'd also work just to drop the word 'notably' or rephrase to 'Sobekneferu distinguished herself from prior female pharaohs by adopting the full royal titulary'.
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I meant to write 'attributed', not 'attested' here. It's not clear whether they are actually his sons, the connection between them is in nomen 'ỉmn-m-hꜣt' . I don't know if just correcting the error helps.
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I took this to the talk page for a reason. I don't have a problem with you editing the article, but no you may not copy-paste material from a copyrighted website on Knowledge and your revised wording is
1099:, have been identified as possible sons of his based on their shared nomen 'Amenemhat'. As such, Sobekneferu may have usurped the throne after Amenemhat's death, viewing his heirs as illegitimate.
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Oh, sorry, I assumed that an experienced editor like you must already have had more than five DYKs. I should have checked. Anyway, in that case, everything is in order.
1115:"Setibhor is suggested to have been a female king regnant". Another phrasing which reads awkwardly to me. I would write "Setibhor may have been a female king regnant".
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To start with, most of the general history articles badly need attention. And I'm told that at least some of the dynasty articles need work. Any other candidates?
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or information into relevant articles. Probably a good exercise for someone who owns one of those impressive texts, yet can't get access to a research library.
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I also don't see how this material is relevant to a section on attestations for Sobekneferu. Nor is it clear what monuments are even being referred to.
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doesn't like "notably" in WikiVoice, and nor do I – I would suggest "Unlike prior female pharaohs, Sobekneferu adopted the full royal titulary".
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We should have an article on every pyramid and every nome in Ancient Egypt. I'm sure the rest of us can think of other articles we should have.
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is more correct than Thothmes. Sebeknofru's name appears in Greek as Skemiophris, a little distorted but showing the e-o vowel sequence.
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Sobekneferu's accession may have been motivated by a lack of male heir for Amenemhat IV. However, two Thirteenth Dynasty kings,
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Hatshepsut also states that she was pharaoh. Should this be changed to conform to the pattern of other articles? Thanks.
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Anyone? I consider this probably the most unimportant of tasks on Knowledge, but if you believe it needs to be done . . .
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The prose is mostly fine for GA (if this were at FAC, I might be more picky here!), but I still have a few suggestions:
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and related articles on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Some of the monuments found in the Nile Delta are thought to be in a secondary context, looted by the
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Egyptologists!) I think this does meet the GA criteria, and I'm happy to pass it. Congratulations!
1216:. Let me know if you have further suggestions or comments (I've added the page to my watchlist now).
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Suggested a further tweak to the second point, but I'm happy with the change you made in the lead.
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on Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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of Egypt's Twelfth Dynasty is the earliest undisputed female king to reign over ancient Egypt?
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With regard my last edit summary. I wrote DE without thinking that it might be interpreted as
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of Egypt's Twelfth Dynasty is the earliest undisputed female king to reign over ancient Egypt?
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According to Egyptologist Dominic Perry, it simply translates to "Sobek is beautiful".
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The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below.
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This is better, though I think still could be clearer. How about something like:
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Looking at the changes you've made, I think just dropping "notably" is fine here.
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Does this name means "the beauty of Sobek" OR "she who shows the beauty of Sobek"?
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was one of ancient Egypt's few female kings and the first to adopt the
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977:Instructions
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102:Did you know
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43:please do so
31:
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1401:Sobekneferu
1374:Sobekneferu
991:transcluded
107:Sobekneferu
96:check views
82:Sobekneferu
27:Sobekneferu
1715:Categories
1699:Mr rnddude
1659:Mr rnddude
1639:Mr rnddude
1615:Mr rnddude
1596:Mr rnddude
1546:Mr rnddude
1504:Mr rnddude
1446:Mr rnddude
1405:(pictured)
1398::... that
1378:(pictured)
1246:Mr rnddude
1218:Mr rnddude
1159:papyriform
944:Authorship
930:GA toolbox
905:Catbirdfan
806:References
740:References
37:under the
1527:Applodion
1492:Applodion
1475:Applodion
1371:... that
1003:Reviewer:
967:Templates
958:Reviewing
923:GA Review
455:Biography
395:Biography
162:is rated
104:... that
86:Main Page
1634:Raven rs
1568:T:DYK/P1
1500:See here
1471:pharaohs
1389:Nitocris
1385:Merneith
1317:promoted
1016:contribs
972:Criteria
913:contribs
901:unsigned
789:Thutmose
727:JanderVK
690:1.Erfolg
647:nobility
164:GA-class
47:reassess
1688:, Paris
1655:WP:CLOP
1435:Comment
1391:, then:
1341:Comment
643:royalty
593:on the
329:Cleanup
300:history
273:on the
88:in the
1686:Louvre
1588:Hyksos
1496:WP:QPQ
1416:sꜣt-rꜥ
1244:Done.
1097:Sonbef
1045:WP:WTW
170:scale.
54:Review
1611:WP:DE
1420:sꜣ-rꜥ
1168:Done.
1150:Done.
1136:Done.
1104:Done.
993:from
310:purge
305:watch
151:This
1703:talk
1695:here
1663:talk
1643:talk
1619:talk
1600:talk
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1396:ALT1
1345:view
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1095:and
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645:and
444:and
295:edit
1566:To
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585:Mid
265:Mid
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