889:"In passing" is key. What's the criterion for including a film mention? The film "J. Edgar" has a non-trivial amount of screen time devoted to Tolson and fictionalizes his life relativley little. But the TV series "Dark Skies" and "Millenium" are evidently set long after his death and seemingly have nothing to do with the historical FBI. If Homer Simpson quips "Hoover and Tolson" when he sees a pair of FBI agents walking together, is that a reference? I'd like to see a reference saying that the Tolson character is a significant part of a film or other pop-culture performance before it gets added back to the article. --
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involved in the plot, not just mentioned in passing), he can be included. I would not call this original research, as we are not bringing new, unsourced facts - the films themselves are sources anyway. There is, I think, a grey area when it comes to determining whether a certain film is notable or significant enough to include, as deciding notability could be deemed original research. However, as there tend not to be reliable sources written on whether a film reference is notable enough for
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I agree, a substantial biographical depiction of Tolson is possibly useful (such as in the recent film "J. Edgar" which is how I got to this article in the first place), but a fictional one-episode walk-on by a character named "Tolson" should not be included. If we have to watch the movies to decide
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which says "look at whether a person who is familiar with the topic only through the reference in question has the potential to learn something meaningful about the topic from that work alone". If you cannot learn anything substantial about Tolson from watching a film/TV programme, then I would not
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The beginning of the article uses the phrase "he is best known as" and lists a couple of things. I think it's safe to say that he's actually best known for the claims about his relationship with Hoover. If those of you who insist that you don't believe those claims win out, then I think there's an
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is a helpful guideline, which seems to suggest that any notable films/programmes where the subject of the article features prominently (rather than as a passing reference) can be mentioned. Also, the in popular culture section does not make the article an unreasonable length, so the content would
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I think I agree (though I don't know the film to which you refer). If it is not a historically accurate film (either slightly or wildly inaccurate), I would lean towards not including it. However, if it is a major part in the film and the character is obviously Tolson (rather than an allusion to
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If there is just a character called Tolson, then that's a trivial reference. If it is biographical, then it should be included. I think, however, that most fall somewhere in between. I would say that if a character can be identified as Clyde Tolson and he plays a significant role (that is, he is
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They've had their hand in between? Doesn't really matter unless it is true that Hoover was also attending gay parties in NY and was blackmailed by Meyer Lanski with photos. (Mentioned in the movie "The Curse Of J Edgar Hoover". Maybe they were both impotent, who knows and who cares?
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I removed phrase "right wing extremist" from sentence about Tolson's alleged comment about Robert
Kennedy. If true, his comment is no indication of "right wing" or "left wing" political views. Many people of all political persuasions, including Lyndon Johnson, despised Robert
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How, pray tell, does someone LOOK gay? Because he doesn't fit your stereotypical and bigoted norms about how a man should look? Because you're predisposed to see him in a certain light? I'm surprised that your comment has been up lo long without someone challenging it.
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That should be state don the article if known. He died less than 3 years after Hoover, so it is almost certain that most, if not all, inherited from Hoover would have remained in his possession until he died. Did Tolson's brother inherit it?
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partners in that sense in the time that they lived. That designation didn't even exist in the US until after they both passed away. The connection to Hoover is made with no proof, so this being in the info box is incorrect and
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Walk-ons in fiction should be particularly avoided, then, if the WP:IPC guide is followed; we don't learn anything about the historical Tolson when we see him debating how to handle the brain-sucking alien menace from Rigel.
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how much screen time Tolson gets, isn't that "original research"Â ? Of course, everything at the movies is fiction, but aside from making up all the dialog, the facts of Tolson's life were not fictionalized in "J. Edgar". --
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Tolson clearly looks gay. No doubts about that. Their relationship was way more than how far good buddies would take it. At least
Michael Jakcson had been seen with "some" women. These two, where are their women?
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I'd agree that we should stick to cultural depictions where Tolson is more prominently featured than a passing reference (i.e., the
Simpsons episode example would be a strong example of too trivial). Given
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Whether or not Tolson or Hoover or both were gay, they didn't Iive together. Living together is the definition of domestic partnership, right here on
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What alleged comment about Robert
Kennedy? Was it removed? There's very little in the article that explains who Tolson was or what he thought about anything. He comes across as a cypher.
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argument for changing the wording there. If anyone at all out there knows who he is, it's for the "closeted homosexual lover" angle, and not for his profession or position in the FBI.
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include it. Otherwise, it is significant coverage, so probably can be included. It is a crude measure and there will be exceptions, but I think it's a helpful starting point.
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have to be excessively trivial to be removed. Any film which is reasonable notable and which Tolson is featured more than just in passing, I would suggest is included.
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I've not seen any of those films or TV programmes, so can only really suggest what kind of guide I would use. There's a helpful guide in
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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The 2003 satirical radio play "J. Edgar," (most likely; anything featuring Hoover prominently will probably also do so with Tolson)
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If they are not referenced and trivial, yes. Otherwise we get every "Family Guy" cutaway joke and late-night comic reference. --
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A movie/novel depiction is much different than a Family Guy or song single-mention. I certainly don't support the latter.
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then? Regarding references, any of those can easily be verified by IMDB; it's not controversial material or anything.
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But friends and relatives of both Hoover and Tolson deny that either one was gay, nor that they were lovers. --
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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The content of this article is in considerable dispute. Can someone shed some light on the pros and cons? --
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him), then I would call it a notable reference, as they have taken the character and given him a major part.
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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There's nothing in this article, except the explicit statement of being "gay" that isn't already in
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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I'm not aware of him ever having married, nor fathering any children. He was likely homosexual.
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Abraham Lincoln
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Hi there. Someone requests a third opinion editor at the
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Start-Class biography (politics and government) articles
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Before restoring a list of film trivia, I would comment
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Start-Class WikiProject LGBT studies - person articles
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What was the name of his wife? Did he have any kids?
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in a more useful form. I think I can NPOV it a bit.
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https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/directors/gray
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919:(definitely)
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549:— Preceding
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358:LGBT studies
349:project page
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51:WikiProjects
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1086:Wtshymanski
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891:Wtshymanski
870:unnecessary
821:Wtshymanski
803:Wtshymanski
768:Wtshymanski
702:—Preceding
621:Pascalulu88
599:Right-wing?
530:76.28.89.86
524:—Preceding
472:Homosexual?
225:WikiProject
41:Start-class
1257:Categories
1244:Report bug
1020:Comments?
962:Dark Skies
604:Kennedy.--
435:Statistics
353:discussion
243:discussion
229:U.S. state
1227:this tool
1220:this tool
489:Ortolan88
130:Biography
70:Biography
39:is rated
1233:Cheers.—
1126:domestic
1101:ItsZippy
1076:ItsZippy
1046:ItsZippy
1025:itsJamie
916:J. Edgar
879:ItsZippy
838:itsJamie
790:itsJamie
704:unsigned
683:Wintceas
643:unsigned
606:FelixCab
581:unsigned
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248:Missouri
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184:Missouri
1157:my edit
693:Kraxler
444:QRpedia
431:QRpedia
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1131:WPaulB
1041:WP:IPC
874:WP:IPC
815:Done!
301:Person
47:scale.
971:Nixon
904:that:
739:Death
345:LGBTQ
28:This
1135:talk
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825:talk
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807:talk
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223:, a
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267:???
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