Knowledge

Paul Williams (journalist)

Source 📝

1201:"I said I was leaving the day before and they said I wouldn't be allowed to. They said they'd be watching me 24 hours a day. So I was super paranoid, super cautious. But that doesn't bother me. I mean, they owed it to me, in a sense, to keep me on the hill. If I grow enough, someday I may come back. I care about Mel Lyman more than anyone outside of myself; someday I may be able to care about him more than me. The people who can, have something really beautiful going." 979: 31: 499:
From 1983 to 1992, Williams ran the Philip K. Dick Society along with Andy Watson and Keith Bowden in the UK. PKDS had some thousands of members internationally and was a significant influence in publicising Dick's work internationally. It published 30 quarterly newsletters, some of which included
354:
would include "neither pin-ups nor news-briefs" and that "the specialty of this magazine is intelligent writing about pop ..." He left the magazine in 1968 and reclaimed the title in 1993, but had to end it in 2003 due to financial difficulties.
573:
s David Felton, Williams told him he departed at night, as he felt he was being observed and would not be allowed to leave. According to Williams' official website, he also lived in a wilderness commune at Galley Bay in
565:, locked in a closet, and had his eyeglasses taken away. Williams broke out and hitchhiked back to Boston, hiding out for weeks at his mother's house, for fear of them coming after him. Williams later told his wife, 473:. "The True Stories of Philip K. Dick", which appeared in the November 6, 1975 issue of the magazine, covered a variety of subjects, including many theories about the 1971 break-in of Dick's home in 297:, for whom he served as the executor of his literary estate. Williams was also the founder of the Philip K. Dick Society, which helped to publish Dick's work and establish his legacy. 496:
Williams was Dick's literary executor for several years after Dick's death and used that position to get several of the author's previously unpublished neorealist novels into print.
1309: 370:, and Joel Hack, which published poetry and nonfiction by Williams, and novels by Tom Carson, Philip K. Dick, and others. Entwhistle continued until about the year 2000. 950: 626:. The medical bills were enormous, and the family asked for donations toward his continued medical care. On December 14, 2009, Paul Williams was accepted for 611:
In 1995, Williams suffered a brain injury from a bicycle accident. Though he apparently recovered, it was later discovered that he was suffering from
1225: 755: 505: 127: 1400: 1006: 1445: 1450: 1239:
Fricke, David. "Rockers Reach Out to Pioneering Music Critic: Struck by Alzheimer's, 'Crawdaddy!' founder Paul Williams solicits help",
1059: 937: 425:" list that includes movies, books & other documents) (2000) and the last volume of his critical look at the music of Bob Dylan — 1465: 391: 1390: 966: 457: 1455: 1435: 637:
Williams died on March 27, 2013, at his home in California at age 64 from complications related to the bicycle accident.
622:
with Berryhill and their 8-year-old son, Alexander Berryhill-Williams, but eventually had to enter a nursing home due to
1470: 1430: 768: 1121: 1069: 895: 840: 411: 1480: 1475: 1460: 1275: 612: 1378: 1440: 1360: 1085: 1045: 1405: 1174:"Joni Mitchell Library - Trina talks about the song Ladies of the Canyon: JoniMitchell.com, April 19, 2008" 816: 383: 350:. The first issue was ten mimeographed pages written entirely by Williams. In that issue, he declared that 997: 725: 562: 402:. Williams also made significant contributions to Hartwell's book-length analysis of science fiction, 1293: 482: 336: 264:(May 19, 1948 – March 27, 2013) was an American music journalist, writer, and publisher who created 686: 469: 327: 330:). His aim was to reflect the sophistication brought to pop music by two albums released in 1965: 582: 512:
Williams is a featured interviewee in three documentaries about Dick: a biographical documentary
153: 30: 883: 474: 323: 619: 554: 55: 1425: 1420: 908: 800: 518: 461: 115: 8: 1002: 663:, 1972) — "a hippie journal in the communes and on the road, December 1969–February 1970" 600: 566: 227: 1190:
Williams, Paul, quoted by David Felton, in "The Lyman Family's Holy Siege of America,"
306: 1386: 1117: 1065: 903: 891: 836: 764: 603:, they married in 1997 and had a son in 2001, Alexander. Berryhill became his widow. 569:, "What good feelings I'd had for Lyman utterly changed at that point." According to 558: 442: 407: 367: 290: 1173: 721: 660: 575: 478: 390:
In 1981 he edited and published, with David G. Hartwell, the first book edition of
363: 359: 319: 274: 121: 485:, the politics of the era, and the relationship of Dick's drug use (including his 414:), and Hartwell mentions Paul Williams prominently in the book's acknowledgments. 588:
In the 1980s, he was married to Donna Nassar who provided many illustrations for
1335: 848: 702: 453: 438: 294: 1356:
Paul Williams, Ed, "The International Bill of Human Rights", Entwhistle, 1981.
1028: 1414: 826: 778: 615:(CTE) dementia, the early onset of which was attributed to the brain injury. 543: 445: 1212: 737:
The Book of Houses: An Astrological Guide to the Harvest Cycle in Human Life
1195: 887: 670: 650: 449: 399: 373:
Williams was the author of more than 25 books, of which the best-known are
282: 1114:
Williams, Paul, (1986), Only Apparently Real: The World of Philip K. Dick
860: 760: 486: 346: 341: 1159: 1146:""Arena" Philip K Dick: A Day in the Afterlife (TV Episode 1994) - IMDb" 1145: 277:, in January 1966. He was a leading authority on the works of musicians 316: 311: 286: 271: 266: 101: 72: 1395: 464:, beginning a friendship that lasted through the rest of Dick's life. 596: 550: 331: 278: 1089: 631: 627: 623: 980:
All Yesterdays Parties: The Velvet Underground in Print, 1966-1971
867:
Bob Dylan: Mind Out of Time (Performing Artist Vol. 3, 1987-2000)
427:
Bob Dylan: Mind Out of Time (Performing Artist Vol. 3, 1987-2000)
437:
In the spring of 1967 Williams was introduced to the fiction of
1256: 807:
Bob Dylan: Performing Artist, Vol 2: The Middle Years 1974–1986
422: 938:"Paul Williams: The first rock critic, and one of the best" 513: 1373: 1336:"Title: Only Apparently Real: The World of Philip K. Dick" 1048:
James Cummins Bookseller website. Retrieved Dec. 26, 2022.
585:, a Japanese singer-songwriter; they raised two children. 534:, another biographical documentary film produced in 2007. 490: 467:
In 1974, Williams began working on a profile of Dick for
1061:
Age of Wonders: Exploring the World of Science Fiction
456:. He introduced himself to Dick in August 1968 at the 404:
Age of Wonders: Exploring the World of Science Fiction
322:, in January 1966 with the help of some of his fellow 1310:"Crawdaddy magazine founder Paul Williams dead at 64" 1116:
New York: Arbor House Publishing Company, pp. 14-15,
561:, for a few weeks in 1971, before he was dosed with 542:
In early 1968, he was dating underground cartoonist
996: 785:The Map, or Rediscovering Rock and Roll: a Journey 432: 953:by Bill Wyman, The New York Times, June 12, 2005. 756:Only Apparently Real: The World of Philip K. Dick 720:"Introduction: the Making of Fox & Hare," in 506:Only Apparently Real: The World of Philip K. Dick 128:Only Apparently Real: The World of Philip K. Dick 1412: 1257:"Paul Williams :: Website and Support Fund" 1135:, Paul Williams, Rolling Stone, November 6, 1975 835:London, New York, Paris, Sydney: Omnibus Press. 711:(written 1978, published 1991, Entwhistle Books) 857:The 20th Century’s Greatest Hits: A Top 40 List 732:Entwhistle Books, Glen Ellen, California (1980) 1227:Bob Dylan: Performing Artist, The Middle Years 743:Common Sense: A Guide to the Present Situation 730:Fox & Hare: The Story of a Friday Evening. 653:, 1969); re-issued in 2000 by Entwhistle Books 1029:"Grateful Dead Family Discography: Crawdaddy" 990: 988: 1160:"The Penultimate Truth About Philip K. Dick" 595:In 1992, Williams began a relationship with 1361:PKDS - the Philip K Dick Society Newsletter 985: 886:, CA : Entwhistle Books, foreword by 532:The Penultimate Truth About Philip K. Dick 29: 392:The Universal Declaration of Human Rights 1251: 1249: 1109: 1107: 1057: 509:, one of the first biographies of Dick. 493:experimentation) to his writing career. 994: 932: 930: 553:, Williams lived and worked at Lyman's 1413: 1058:Hartwell, David G. (24 January 2017). 961: 959: 880:The International Bill of Human Rights 528:The Gospel According to Philip K. Dick 500:previously unpublished Dick material. 396:The International Bill of Human Rights 1391:Internet Speculative Fiction Database 1246: 1104: 524:Philip K Dick: A Day in the Afterlife 458:26th World Science Fiction Convention 1446:American speculative fiction critics 1133:"The True Stories of Philip K. Dick" 951:Dylan Gives the People What He Wants 927: 797:Bob Dylan: Performing Artist, Vol 1. 618:For part of 2009, Williams lived in 606: 387:, the acclaimed three-part series. 315:, the first national US magazine of 270:, the first national US magazine of 16:American magazine founder and editor 956: 791:Rock and Roll: The 100 Best Singles 13: 1451:Deaths from dementia in California 1086:"The 20th Century's Greatest Hits" 873: 823:Bob Dylan: Watching The River Flow 647:Outlaw Blues: A Book of Rock Music 530:, which was produced in 2001, and 14: 1492: 1367: 1009:from the original on 28 June 2019 599:co-founder and singer-songwriter 1466:American science fiction editors 613:chronic traumatic encephalopathy 537: 516:released in 1994 as part of its 419:The 20th Century's Greatest Hits 210: 174: 1328: 1302: 1286: 1267: 1233: 1218: 1206: 1184: 1166: 1152: 1138: 1126: 1046:"The Archive of Paul Williams," 433:Association with Philip K. Dick 417:His final published books were 240: 202: 166: 1276:"No One Feels At Home In Them" 1078: 1051: 1039: 1021: 995:Hoskyns, Barney (April 2013). 973: 944: 289:, and science fiction writers 1: 915: 817:Carroll & Graf Publishers 358:In 1968, Williams co-founded 214: 206: 178: 170: 1406:Interview on RockCritics.com 1194:(Dec. 23, 1971), pp. 40-60. 967:"Crawdaddy - Paste Features" 503:In 1986, Williams published 477:, a 1972 suicide attempt in 384:Bob Dylan: Performing Artist 326:(he had previously produced 134:Bob Dylan: Performing Artist 7: 1456:Speculative fiction editors 1401:Paul Williams' Common Sense 982:by Clinton Heylin, p. xvii. 715:Dylan — What Happened? 10: 1497: 1436:American magazine founders 1350: 726:Charles Marchant Stevenson 581:In 1972, Williams married 305:While briefly enrolled at 1471:Swarthmore College alumni 1431:American magazine editors 1148:– via www.imdb.com. 489:addiction and infrequent 483:Orange County, California 481:, his subsequent move to 406:(Walker & Co., 1985; 337:Bringing It All Back Home 300: 251: 142: 107: 97: 79: 62: 40: 28: 21: 1396:Paul WIlliams on MySpace 1243:(April 20, 2009), p. 26. 998:"Music Journalism at 50" 920: 902:The Complete Stories of 851:– How Deep Is The Ocean? 833:Neil Young: Love To Burn 793:(Entwhistle Books, 1993) 751:(Entwhistle Books, 1984) 739:(Entwhistle Books, 1980) 717:(Entwhistle Books, 1979) 695:(Entwhistle Books, 1977) 687:Grand Central Publishing 640: 394:(with the book entitled 328:science fiction fanzines 1481:Philip K. Dick scholars 1476:Journalists from Boston 1461:Science fiction critics 1359:PKDS Newsletters 1-30, 1196:Archived at Trussel.com 809:(Underwood Books, 1992) 592:'s second incarnation. 443:underground cartoonists 1441:American music critics 1292:Berryhill, Cindy Lee. 1273:Berryhill, Cindy Lee. 1203: 475:San Rafael, California 398:), with a foreword by 1294:"The Wonderful Life," 1282:. September 28, 2009. 1199: 853:(Omnibus Press, 1997) 775:Remember Your Essence 620:Encinitas, California 555:intentional community 56:Boston, Massachusetts 1299:(December 16, 2009). 1261:www.paulwilliams.com 909:North Atlantic Books 462:Berkeley, California 324:science fiction fans 847:Brian Wilson & 813:Energi Inscriptions 735:(with Robert Cole) 601:Cindy Lee Berryhill 567:Cindy Lee Berryhill 549:An acquaintance of 522:arts series called 309:, Williams created 228:Cindy Lee Berryhill 749:Waking Up Together 307:Swarthmore College 1314:Los Angeles Times 1162:– via IMDb. 904:Theodore Sturgeon 787:(And Books, 1988) 722:Anderson, Chester 607:Illness and death 559:Fort Hill, Boston 368:David G. Hartwell 291:Theodore Sturgeon 259: 258: 1488: 1344: 1343: 1332: 1326: 1325: 1323: 1321: 1306: 1300: 1297:Beloved Stranger 1290: 1284: 1283: 1280:Beloved Stranger 1271: 1265: 1264: 1253: 1244: 1237: 1231: 1224:Williams, Paul. 1222: 1216: 1213:Sachiko Kanenobu 1210: 1204: 1188: 1182: 1181: 1178:jonimitchell.com 1170: 1164: 1163: 1156: 1150: 1149: 1142: 1136: 1130: 1124: 1111: 1102: 1100: 1098: 1097: 1088:. Archived from 1082: 1076: 1075: 1055: 1049: 1043: 1037: 1036: 1033:www.deaddisc.com 1025: 1019: 1018: 1016: 1014: 1003:Rock's Backpages 1000: 992: 983: 977: 971: 970: 963: 954: 948: 942: 941: 934: 801:Underwood–Miller 661:Entwhistle Books 583:Sachiko Kanenobu 576:British Columbia 479:British Columbia 364:Chester Anderson 360:Entwhistle Books 262:Paul S. Williams 244: 242: 218: 216: 212: 208: 204: 182: 180: 176: 172: 168: 154:Sachiko Kanenobu 122:Entwhistle Books 85:Music journalist 69: 52: 50: 44:Paul S. Williams 33: 19: 18: 1496: 1495: 1491: 1490: 1489: 1487: 1486: 1485: 1411: 1410: 1370: 1353: 1348: 1347: 1334: 1333: 1329: 1319: 1317: 1316:. 28 March 2013 1308: 1307: 1303: 1291: 1287: 1274: 1272: 1268: 1255: 1254: 1247: 1238: 1234: 1223: 1219: 1211: 1207: 1189: 1185: 1172: 1171: 1167: 1158: 1157: 1153: 1144: 1143: 1139: 1131: 1127: 1112: 1105: 1095: 1093: 1084: 1083: 1079: 1072: 1056: 1052: 1044: 1040: 1027: 1026: 1022: 1012: 1010: 993: 986: 978: 974: 965: 964: 957: 949: 945: 936: 935: 928: 923: 918: 876: 874:Books as editor 869:(Omnibus, 2004) 803:, Novato, 1990) 643: 609: 540: 435: 303: 247: 246: 243: 1992) 238: 234: 231: 230: 220: 200: 196: 193: 192: 184: 164: 160: 157: 156: 138: 71: 67: 54: 48: 46: 45: 36: 24: 17: 12: 11: 5: 1494: 1484: 1483: 1478: 1473: 1468: 1463: 1458: 1453: 1448: 1443: 1438: 1433: 1428: 1423: 1409: 1408: 1403: 1398: 1393: 1384: 1376: 1369: 1368:External links 1366: 1365: 1364: 1357: 1352: 1349: 1346: 1345: 1327: 1301: 1285: 1266: 1245: 1232: 1217: 1205: 1183: 1165: 1151: 1137: 1125: 1103: 1077: 1070: 1050: 1038: 1020: 984: 972: 955: 943: 925: 924: 922: 919: 917: 914: 913: 912: 907:, Vol. I-XII ( 899: 875: 872: 871: 870: 864: 854: 849:The Beach Boys 844: 830: 820: 810: 804: 794: 788: 782: 772: 769:978-0877958000 752: 746: 740: 733: 718: 712: 706: 703:Penguin Putnam 696: 690: 680: 677:Pushing Upward 674: 664: 654: 642: 639: 608: 605: 571:Rolling Stone' 539: 536: 454:Art Spiegelman 439:Philip K. Dick 434: 431: 302: 299: 295:Philip K. Dick 257: 256: 253: 249: 248: 236: 232: 226: 225: 224: 223: 198: 194: 190: 189: 188: 187: 162: 158: 152: 151: 150: 149: 146: 144: 140: 139: 137: 136: 131: 124: 119: 111: 109: 105: 104: 99: 95: 94: 93: 92: 89: 86: 81: 77: 76: 70:(aged 64) 66:March 27, 2013 64: 60: 59: 42: 38: 37: 35:Williams, 1971 34: 26: 25: 22: 15: 9: 6: 4: 3: 2: 1493: 1482: 1479: 1477: 1474: 1472: 1469: 1467: 1464: 1462: 1459: 1457: 1454: 1452: 1449: 1447: 1444: 1442: 1439: 1437: 1434: 1432: 1429: 1427: 1424: 1422: 1419: 1418: 1416: 1407: 1404: 1402: 1399: 1397: 1394: 1392: 1388: 1387:Paul Williams 1385: 1383: 1381: 1377: 1375: 1374:Official Site 1372: 1371: 1362: 1358: 1355: 1354: 1341: 1340:www.isfdb.org 1337: 1331: 1315: 1311: 1305: 1298: 1295: 1289: 1281: 1277: 1270: 1262: 1258: 1252: 1250: 1242: 1241:Rolling Stone 1236: 1229: 1228: 1221: 1214: 1209: 1202: 1197: 1193: 1192:Rolling Stone 1187: 1179: 1175: 1169: 1161: 1155: 1147: 1141: 1134: 1129: 1123: 1122:0-87795-800-9 1119: 1115: 1110: 1108: 1092:on 2005-09-06 1091: 1087: 1081: 1073: 1071:9780765393319 1067: 1064:. Macmillan. 1063: 1062: 1054: 1047: 1042: 1034: 1030: 1024: 1008: 1004: 999: 991: 989: 981: 976: 968: 962: 960: 952: 947: 939: 933: 931: 926: 910: 906: 905: 900: 897: 896:0-934558-06-X 893: 889: 885: 881: 878: 877: 868: 865: 862: 858: 855: 852: 850: 845: 842: 841:0-934558-19-1 838: 834: 831: 828: 827:Omnibus Press 824: 821: 818: 814: 811: 808: 805: 802: 798: 795: 792: 789: 786: 783: 780: 779:Harmony Books 776: 773: 770: 766: 762: 758: 757: 753: 750: 747: 744: 741: 738: 734: 731: 727: 723: 719: 716: 713: 710: 709:Heart of Gold 707: 704: 700: 699:Right To Pass 697: 694: 691: 688: 684: 681: 679:(Links, 1973) 678: 675: 672: 668: 665: 662: 658: 655: 652: 648: 645: 644: 638: 635: 633: 629: 625: 621: 616: 614: 604: 602: 598: 593: 591: 586: 584: 579: 577: 572: 568: 564: 560: 556: 552: 547: 545: 544:Trina Robbins 538:Personal life 535: 533: 529: 525: 521: 520: 515: 510: 508: 507: 501: 497: 494: 492: 488: 484: 480: 476: 472: 471: 470:Rolling Stone 465: 463: 459: 455: 451: 447: 446:Trina Robbins 444: 440: 430: 428: 424: 420: 415: 413: 412:0-8027-0808-0 409: 405: 401: 397: 393: 388: 386: 385: 380: 376: 371: 369: 365: 361: 356: 353: 349: 348: 343: 339: 338: 333: 329: 325: 321: 318: 314: 313: 308: 298: 296: 292: 288: 284: 280: 276: 273: 269: 268: 263: 254: 250: 229: 222: 221: 186: 185: 155: 148: 147: 145: 141: 135: 132: 130: 129: 125: 123: 120: 118: 117: 113: 112: 110: 108:Notable works 106: 103: 100: 96: 90: 87: 84: 83: 82: 78: 74: 65: 61: 57: 43: 39: 32: 27: 23:Paul Williams 20: 1379: 1363:, 1982–1992. 1339: 1330: 1318:. Retrieved 1313: 1304: 1296: 1288: 1279: 1269: 1260: 1240: 1235: 1226: 1220: 1208: 1200: 1191: 1186: 1177: 1168: 1154: 1140: 1132: 1128: 1113: 1094:. Retrieved 1090:the original 1080: 1060: 1053: 1041: 1032: 1023: 1011:. Retrieved 975: 946: 911:, 1992–2010) 901: 888:Jimmy Carter 879: 866: 856: 846: 832: 822: 812: 806: 796: 790: 784: 774: 763:, New York, 754: 748: 742: 736: 729: 714: 708: 698: 692: 682: 676: 671:Warner Books 666: 657:Time Between 656: 651:E. P. Dutton 646: 636: 634:) coverage. 617: 610: 594: 589: 587: 580: 570: 548: 541: 531: 527: 523: 517: 511: 504: 502: 498: 495: 468: 466: 450:Bhob Stewart 436: 426: 418: 416: 403: 400:Jimmy Carter 395: 389: 382: 378: 375:Outlaw Blues 374: 372: 357: 351: 345: 335: 310: 304: 283:Brian Wilson 265: 261: 260: 191:Donna Nassar 133: 126: 114: 68:(2013-03-27) 53:May 19, 1948 1426:2013 deaths 1421:1948 births 1215:on last.fm. 1013:November 7, 861:Forge Books 761:Arbor House 487:amphetamine 347:Rubber Soul 342:the Beatles 1415:Categories 1380:Crawdaddy! 1096:2005-09-25 916:References 884:Glen Ellen 667:Das Energi 590:Crawdaddy! 379:Das Energi 352:Crawdaddy! 317:rock music 312:Crawdaddy! 287:Neil Young 272:rock music 267:Crawdaddy! 209:; 173:; 102:Rock music 80:Occupation 73:California 49:1948-05-19 1320:March 29, 683:Apple Bay 597:anti-folk 551:Mel Lyman 332:Bob Dylan 320:criticism 279:Bob Dylan 275:criticism 116:Crawdaddy 91:publisher 1007:Archived 632:Medicaid 628:Medi-Cal 624:dementia 429:(2004). 252:Children 1389:at the 1351:Sources 863:, 2000) 829:, 1996) 819:, 1995) 781:, 1987) 705:, 1977) 689:, 1976) 673:, 1973) 245:​ 237:​ 233:​ 219:​ 199:​ 195:​ 183:​ 163:​ 159:​ 98:Subject 1382:Online 1120:  1068:  898:(1981) 894:  843:(1997) 839:  771:(1986) 767:  745:(1982) 693:Coming 423:Top 40 410:  381:, and 301:Career 285:, and 213:  205:  177:  169:  143:Spouse 88:author 75:, U.S. 58:, U.S. 921:Notes 641:Books 519:Arena 362:with 239:( 235: 217:) 201:( 197: 181:) 165:( 161: 1322:2013 1118:ISBN 1066:ISBN 1015:2019 892:ISBN 837:ISBN 765:ISBN 724:and 514:BBC2 452:and 421:(a " 408:ISBN 340:and 293:and 215:1990 211:div. 207:1980 179:1980 175:div. 171:1970 63:Died 41:Born 563:LSD 557:at 491:LSD 460:in 441:by 334:'s 1417:: 1338:. 1312:. 1278:. 1259:. 1248:^ 1198:: 1176:. 1106:^ 1031:. 1005:. 1001:. 987:^ 958:^ 929:^ 890:, 882:, 759:, 728:, 578:. 546:. 526:, 448:, 377:, 366:, 344:' 281:, 241:m. 203:m. 167:m. 1342:. 1324:. 1263:. 1230:. 1180:. 1101:) 1099:. 1074:. 1035:. 1017:. 969:. 940:. 859:( 825:( 815:( 799:( 777:( 701:( 685:( 669:( 659:( 649:( 630:( 255:3 51:) 47:(

Index

Williams, 1971
Boston, Massachusetts
California
Rock music
Crawdaddy
Entwhistle Books
Only Apparently Real: The World of Philip K. Dick
Sachiko Kanenobu
Cindy Lee Berryhill
Crawdaddy!
rock music
criticism
Bob Dylan
Brian Wilson
Neil Young
Theodore Sturgeon
Philip K. Dick
Swarthmore College
Crawdaddy!
rock music
criticism
science fiction fans
science fiction fanzines
Bob Dylan
Bringing It All Back Home
the Beatles
Rubber Soul
Entwhistle Books
Chester Anderson
David G. Hartwell

Text is available under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike License. Additional terms may apply.