1493:-- I get really discouraged when people refer to 'obsolete' game PvP implementions being solely about griefing. Yes, griefing can and did happen. But once you joined a decent guild and earned your reputation and following, it was much more enjoyable then the premade team PvP that goes on in todays MMORPG's. You call it richer, and I would say its extremely dumbed down.. I mean really dumbed down. Comparing it to chess is something I find laughable. You end up fighting who the developers tell you to fight, what you have to fight over and who you have to fight with and what the rewards will be.. it seems extremely spoon fed if you ask me. I just want a developer to have the guts to put community resposibilty back in the hands of players and then problems like gold farming, power leveling and such will pretty much go away.. it seems kinda childish to put all that responsibility on the game developers. The entire origin of MMORPG's centered around a virtual world where the players would have an impact.. sadly those days seem to be gone due to the immaturity of this instant gratification based generation of players. --
1523:'Team-killing' redirects to this page. Without getting into the debate above about who invented what term and so on, 'team-killing' is heard almost entirely in FPS games, in which the term PvP is almost never used. Team-killing is distinct from PvP, being defined more like: 'the deliberate or accidental killing of an ally'. I don't feel that this article describes TKing at all, and I don't think that TKing belongs in an article about PvP, so I'm removing the redirect and putting in a stub. PvP is used to distinguish from PvE etc in MMO context. In FPS, the terminology used includes deathmatch, team deathmatch, co-op, etc. The concepts are related but not overlapping.
1433:-- This is nonsense. PvP is not a synonim for multiplayer. It originated with MUDs and continued with MMOs which are basicly graphical MUDs with a more useable interface. To use the term in a game where the only goal is to fight someone else is meaningless, that's why the term only appeared when a game had both types of gameplay, to describe the activity, the players doing it, the zones and rules for it, etc... I've never seen someone talk about PvP in Starcraft or Counterstrike, because the only thing to do in those games in a multiplayer game is fight the other guy. Also the first MUDs are quite a bit older then multiplayer FPSs and RTSs.--
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editors. Ideally, editors start with sources rather than try and find sources for what they've already written. As we all know, unsourced material may be removed at any time. OTOH, unsourced material that isn't deleted rarely gets sourced since there is little impetus for editors to go out and find them. I found this article because it's had a {{tl:POV}} tag on it since April 2007. Only a couple of articles have had POV disputes for that long. Clearly, this article has problems and no editors are spending time fixing them. At some point it's better to start from scratch.
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1430:--- His point does not stand. The concept of PvP has evolved from the days of Atari. Of course everyone knows that PvP was available back then because every console had 2 controllers. PvP today is a much more rich and sophisticated concept - it applies to player killing in a role playing universe. FPSes don't have much role playing and hence are not part of this concept. Its easy to kill players in FPSes. It's much harder to do so consistently in mmorpgs.
1490:-- I do not think you are entirely correct. Ultima Online and Asherons were popular formats but now are obsolete mmorpgs. PvP isn't just about griefing anymore. Today it has evolved into a much richer environment of real tiem chess against human opponents. The new shards in Ultima could offer the same richness but not in their original format. Team pvp nowadays is like a modern sports tournament and deserves to be mentioned as such in a PvP article.
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1224:), the in-game rewards gained, or the satisfaction felt from causing another player grief. Players have mixed feelings over player killers. In some instances, player killing is accepted as an enjoyable part of the game. In some games player versus player combat is actively encouraged, and there are even games devoted entirely to PK.
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always refers to an FPS. You could have "team killing" in a team-based PvP MMORPG but I can't think of a single example. Games like WOW and DAOC are team-based PvP but team-killing in the FPS sense isn't possible in those games. Games like UO don't have official teams, so team-killing wouldn't apply there either. --
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not really belong. There is a lot of bias in this article now, and it should stay clean of it. The use of examples of MMORPGs and other games should be specifically to shine further light on PvP. Also, someone with more know than I should write a section describing, at least briefly, PVP in non-MMORPGs. -Donathin
1581:(under 18). Chinese officials defined "violent" as any game that involves player vs. player combat. This new policy is part of a crackdown on pornographic, violent, gambling and superstitious content on the internet and mobile phone networks in an effort to create a so-called "healthy online environment".
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As far as I am concerned, wikipedia names articles based on the most commonly used formal title. I am of the belief that "PvP" is referred to considerably more than it's longer title and the article name should be changed accordingly. I will leave it to someone else to tag the page as having a rename
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I agree with that decision. "PvP" may technically stand for "players vs players" but its practical usage is to describe combat between player-characters in an RPG environment. "Team killing" refers to the particularly rude or careless killing of your own teammates in a team vs team game and almost
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Breaking it down might be a good idea, although you probably only need two catagories: RPG and everything else. In an RPG, "going online" is assumed to be co-op mode unless you specify "PvP", which is players fighting each other and is the exception. Even MMORPGs that advertise themselves as a PvP
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determined by the games developer) defeats the entire purpose of an MMORPG and falls more in line with an RPG that just 'happens' to be on-line. Interpersonal relationships and resulting actions (both good and bad) form probabily more then 50% of what defines PvP in the MMORPG genre in my opinion.
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From an MMORPG point of view, I would not call Guild Wars, World of
Warcraft or Dark Age of Camelot as PvP games from a straight definition of the term. Games like Ultima Online and Asheron's Call defined what PvP should refer to when it comes to the MMORPG genre. i.e. anything team based (teams
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Player-killing is also not an MMORPG only term. Didn't any of you WoW addicts play
Starcraft years ago? That's a real time strategy game, not a MMORPG. PKing was a common problem in Starcraft. Players would drop their alliance, and kill the players they were supposed to be helping. Starcraft also
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I deleted and edited many of the examples on that section of the article, shortening the section and improving the quality of writing within the section. I also cleaned up the rest of the article, removing bias and poor writing where I could. I deleted the PvM/PvE section of the article, as it did
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From reading through the talk page the main concerns seem to be that the article in written from the POV of someone familiar with a MMPORG and is neglecting the use of the terminology "player vs. player" in other types of multiplayer games. Is there any other POV concerns I am missing? Also can
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This whole PvP article honestly made me laugh. It is so funny to hear anyone claim that the term "Player vs. Player" is limited to, created by, or even mainly applying to, MMORPGs. I am a hardcore gamer that has played many MMORPGs, however, the term "PvP" was common long before the first MMORPG.
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This isn't a topic with which I'm familiar (I've played a few of these games, that's about it). I have no idea where we would find reliable sources talking about it. It appears to me that none were consulted in the writing of this article, and that it's all taken from the personal experience of
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this was totally wrong so I changed it to reflect what the actual situation was. not all players but newer/casual players and developers looking to draw in larger crowds, when Pvp/pking stopped being the norm alot of MMORPG players just stopped playing them because PvE is just plain boring.
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systems are one approach, where users who wish to take part in player-killing may both be attacked and attack other such players. It is also common to restrict player killing to other players of similar level. Disallowing PK entirely is opposed by many who feel it reduces the
1391:-People have being building competitive Roleplaying games for a long time, games like Paranoia (1984) have encouraged PvP for a long time. I cannot say where the term first emerged, but I have tried to add a section on tabletop roleplay section to match the LARP one.
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game (such as
Lineage II) still have a great deal of PvE content and that's still what most players spend most of their time doing. The point is that "PvP" as a label really only exists in the RPG world and points out an exception case for that genre. You
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This article slights all first-person shooters, and other games, that have a much larger PvP focus than MMORPGs. Even the some of the oldest first-person shooters had two settings: single-player (or PvE) and multi-player (also called, PvP).
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The serious issues with this article go beyond simple NPOV - there's almost a total lack of sources. Unless someone fixes it shortly I'm going to stub it down to what is supported by the two sources currently in the article.
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had a PvP system, and ladder system. Again, let's do a little research, find a few outside links, and write something educated, rather than sounding like my
Neopets friends that seem to think they invented the word "n00b".
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apply the "PvP" to anything from Pong to Quake to basketball but I'd challenge you to go find a source that does. In those games, PvP is implied when more than 1 player is involved and does not need to be specified.
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Ok for the sake of 'neutrality' how about I gank the shit out of lowbies and then let some nub kill me, I'll send screenshots of both. After that maybe I'll go back and corspe camp the faygot again. Zul poooons !!!
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I think the article as it stands is a really wonky: It's defined as "competitive interaction.. between two or more live participants" which really ought to make the article's scope "any multiplayer game that is not
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As the title sais, I have tried to add in a little bit of information on how the pvp works in the city of heroes and city of villains games.Please check it for grammer as english is not my native language. -Yoeri
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I gank lowbie trash and corpse camp them till they QQ and shit in thier pants. So I was wondering if I can add some of my screenshots as valuable documentary 'data' on the subject. Zul poooons ! ~ ~~
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I think the article needs to be broken down into game genres, FPS, MUD's, RPG's and MMORPG's, etc. and looked at in the context of how PvP started in each genre and refine a single definition to each.
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You might a well say that tennis or pool are PvP, as that it has existed since multiplayer computer games. The term only has need in rpg's and the like where emotional investment in character is high.
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I'm sorry to point out the obvious, but the "Darkfall Online" section is clearly irrelevant and means of propaganda. I'm quite sure
Knowledge does not accept this kind of thing. It should be deleted.
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I think a complete rewrite is needed to get the article back on track, and if per-genre considerations are desired (for example, the current article is really "PvP in MMORPGs"), those can come later.
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Since no-one has responded to explain what continued bias problem exists here; I am going to assume the concerns were taken care of in the past year and remove the tag.--
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What's the reasoning behind having PvM/PvE redirect here? As the article says, PvE is the "antithesis" of PvP, so I don't think it makes much sense. Can we move it? --
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Poor research aside, his point stands. PvP didn't start with the MMO movement. It didn't even start with MUDs. It's been around since the first two player game.
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Obviously this will inflict on the webcomic "PvP" article, but that could always be renamed "PvP_(webcomic)" accordingly. Let me know your thoughts, thanks.
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switch. I had an old motorized one that used a light moved on a track by gears to play. The machine mode though always cheated since it never missed.
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I made a Wiki account just to let you know that this article needs to note shadowbane as the premier pvp game on the face of the earth.
1231:. Many games respond to this by restricting or eliminating player versus player combat. There is no "perfect" solution to this issue;
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When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
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someone list in bullet points the basic treatment(s) of the concept that the article is missing from these other sorts of games?--
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Which game was the first to have a Player vs. Player setting? PvP dates back all the way to Atari, from what I can recall.
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You didn't do it right. The other Guild Wars games aren't cheaper, nor do they simply add more PvP; they also add PvE.
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No, my friend, I hardly think that a article requiring neutrality and rewrites is an ideal forum for such data.
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to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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to disallow nonconsensual player versus player combat by default. Other games with player killers include
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If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with
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Someone needs to rephrase that whole part there, or it should go. It sonds very stilted and bizarre. --
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I added a Guild Wars article outline its pvp system along with the other outlines from ther games.--
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on
Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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Knowledge. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
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I merged the narrow player killer article with this one. Here's the original player killer text:
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before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template
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The following
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PKers are not always desirable though. In this case, player killing is considered a form of
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Does anyone object if I delete the rest? If so, please provide reliable sources for it.
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It's just a term referring to a generic game design element, not really a subset of
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https://web.archive.org/web/20120226122409/http://www.rpgmud.com/lpmud_timeline.htm
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than present day graphical-based ones, or PvP games like
Starcraft. ---Donathin
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Player killers who kill their own allies and teammates are often referred to as
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Players who hunt PKs and defend innocent players are sometimes referred to as
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of a game's world (for example, "if mobs can be killed, why can't players?").
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Whatever it requires, please fix it. Be bold. Isn't that the PvP way?
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There is only one properly sourced paragraph in this article.
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in the banner shell. Please resolve this conflict if possible.
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This article has been given a rating which conflicts with the
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Reading through the article, it looks like there's a lot of
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for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Start-Class articles with conflicting quality ratings
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1327:Obsolete Link
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1980:source check
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1874:
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1331:This link:
1330:
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1272:team killers
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1165:Huge Changes
1159:
1142:86.20.80.248
1132:
1107:
1053:
949:reassessment
927:
909:
897:
885:
873:
861:
825:
811:
797:
783:
769:
755:
731:
717:
703:
689:
665:
651:
637:
613:
599:
596:Pixel Piracy
585:
582:Miner 2049er
571:
527:
513:
499:
472:
460:
448:
426:
360:
357:participants
354:
341:
338:participants
335:
331:Ryo Sakazaki
325:participants
322:
312:participants
309:
296:
286:participants
283:
273:participants
270:
260:participants
257:
244:
234:participants
231:
136:
96:
40:WikiProjects
1894:Technically
1818:Will Beback
1736:—Preceding
1694:—Preceding
1667:Will Beback
1629:Will Beback
1594:Will Beback
1281:(PKKs), or
1211:player-kill
1197:(such as a
1136:—Preceding
1032:Start‑class
973:screenshots
662:Async Corp.
496:Donkey Kong
376:Screen Rant
299:participant
247:participant
167:Summary of
156:open tasks:
152:Summary of
112:Video games
103:video games
59:Video games
2104:Categories
2017:Report bug
1900:Space Wars
1607:WP:Be bold
1372:Shadowbane
1346:Guild Wars
1323:yes queer
935:assessment
752:River Raid
449:The Sims 4
400:discussion
390:discussion
380:discussion
305:Butterfree
227:Dōkyūsei 2
171:open tasks
2060:WWE Yegz
2000:this tool
1993:this tool
1752:Marketing
1646:Spacewar!
1556:Unsourced
1264:Diablo II
1252:EverQuest
967:cover art
961:infoboxes
610:Ether One
558:Justin Yu
461:Smash Hit
2006:Cheers.—
1904:Marasama
1862:contribs
1843:WP:UNDUE
1797:Birgitte
1780:Birgitte
1567:August 4
1540:TheCynic
1505:TheCynic
1468:PaleAqua
1283:anti PKs
1229:griefing
1138:unsigned
991:creation
438:Ada Wong
362:relisted
343:relisted
292:Dokibird
253:Skycoach
1930:my edit
1833:Cleanup
1771:POV tag
1738:undated
1696:undated
1435:Helixdq
1420:MMORPGs
1295:RayaruB
1289:PvE/PvM
1233:PK flag
1110:on the
996:merging
975:(8,817)
955:cleanup
780:Pikachu
201:vg talk
191:history
139:on the
30:C-class
1650:Nifboy
1579:minors
1573:, the
1258:Diablo
1203:MMORPG
979:photos
910:Tetris
822:Meltan
318:Bidoof
206:alerts
36:scale.
2056:Phone
1849:Azure
1839:WP:OR
1500:could
1312:"Gay"
1304:Zzzzz
1185:, or
1088:Start
987:(190)
969:(248)
828:start
814:start
800:start
786:start
772:start
758:start
734:start
720:start
706:start
692:start
668:start
654:start
640:start
616:start
602:start
588:start
574:start
538:Birdo
530:start
516:start
502:start
211:purge
196:shell
181:watch
2092:talk
2066:talk
2047:talk
1908:talk
1885:talk
1858:talk
1852:Fury
1841:and
1823:talk
1762:talk
1732:talk
1713:talk
1690:talk
1664:·:·
1654:talk
1626:·:·
1591:·:·
1571:2005
1544:talk
1529:talk
1509:talk
1462:and
1449:talk
1397:talk
1302:no.
1261:and
1222:mobs
1191:PKer
1146:talk
981:(66)
963:(19)
221:AfDs
186:edit
176:view
1974:RfC
1944:to
1734:)
1692:)
1670:·:·
1632:·:·
1613:• (
1597:·:·
1565:On
1201:or
1199:MUD
1102:Low
957:(8)
951:(0)
941:) (
916:rev
903:rev
891:nom
879:nom
867:nom
746:nom
680:nom
628:nom
562:nom
552:nom
542:nom
478:nom
466:nom
454:nom
442:nom
432:nom
131:Mid
2106::
2094:)
2068:)
2049:)
1987:.
1982:}}
1978:{{
1910:)
1887:)
1864:)
1860:|
1801:SB
1784:SB
1764:)
1715:)
1656:)
1617:)
1569:,
1546:)
1531:)
1511:)
1503:--
1399:)
1285:.
1274:.
1267:.
1217:.
1189:/
1187:PK
1181:A
1148:)
359:;
340:;
2090:(
2064:(
2045:(
2019:)
2015:(
2002:.
1995:.
1906:(
1883:(
1856:(
1760:(
1744:.
1730:(
1711:(
1702:.
1688:(
1652:(
1542:(
1527:(
1507:(
1451:)
1447:(
1395:(
1144:(
1114:.
945:)
943:0
939:1
937:(
918:)
914:(
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901:(
893:)
889:(
881:)
877:(
869:)
865:(
832:)
824:(
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810:(
804:)
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790:)
782:(
776:)
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730:(
724:)
716:(
710:)
702:(
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688:(
682:)
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672:)
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464:(
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452:(
444:)
440:(
434:)
430:(
402:)
398:(
392:)
388:(
382:)
378:(
365:)
355:7
352:(
346:)
336:3
333:(
327:)
323:6
320:(
314:)
310:6
307:(
301:)
297:1
294:(
288:)
284:9
281:(
275:)
271:2
268:(
262:)
258:3
255:(
249:)
245:1
242:(
236:)
232:0
229:(
143:.
42::
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